Continuing outrages related to our 45th President

[nereo]

Maine has barred trump from sharing on the primary ballot, which is all but certain to be ruled upon by SCOTUS.

I can’t believe we still have 11+ months of this circus before election night.

[Just Joe]

“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?”

Nikki Haley comes back with: "“I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run — the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do. I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And we — I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.”

Naturally alot of folks took offense, mostly people with any more than two brain cells to rub together...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-28/nikki-haley-civil-war-slavery-republicans-racism

I fail to see much value in the GOP for today's voters. Makes voting day easy though.

[bacchi]

“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?”

Nikki Haley comes back with: "“I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run — the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do. I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And we — I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.”

Naturally alot of folks took offense, mostly people with any more than two brain cells to rub together...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-28/nikki-haley-civil-war-slavery-republicans-racism

I fail to see much value in the GOP for today's voters. Makes voting day easy though.

Her polling has found that those words attract more Republican voters than they dissuade. She's studied these topics for hours. We'd hear a similar benighted response about the Virginia tiki torch rally.

[RetiredAt63]

"And we — I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people"

So she is staunchly pro-choice and pro-black-lives-matter and not putting people in jail when they are trying to arrive as refugees to the US? 

Yes, /s.

[ATtiny85]

“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?”

Nikki Haley comes back with: "“I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run — the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do. I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And we — I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.”

Naturally alot of folks took offense, mostly people with any more than two brain cells to rub together...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-28/nikki-haley-civil-war-slavery-republicans-racism

I fail to see much value in the GOP for today's voters. Makes voting day easy though.

Maybe the handwringing and follow-up discussions will cause some folks to broaden their understanding of the various things that caused the Civil War, and maybe even achieve a deeper understanding of what went into forming the US. Doubt it though, since it will just be one party saying one thing and the other saying the opposite.

[Kris]

“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?”

Nikki Haley comes back with: "“I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run — the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do. I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And we — I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.”

Naturally alot of folks took offense, mostly people with any more than two brain cells to rub together...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-28/nikki-haley-civil-war-slavery-republicans-racism

I fail to see much value in the GOP for today's voters. Makes voting day easy though.

Her polling has found that those words attract more Republican voters than they dissuade. She's studied these topics for hours. We'd hear a similar benighted response about the Virginia tiki torch rally.

Indeed. The modern GOP voter believes that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery. So of course she will say it was caused by almost literally everything else.

[GuitarStv]

It's amazing how many people in the "freedom and no government intervention in people's lives" don't appear to realize that government intervention directly resulted in freedom for black people (and much later women).  Less government intervention = less freedom.

[Kris]

It's amazing how many people in the "freedom and no government intervention in people's lives" don't appear to realize that government intervention directly resulted in freedom for black people (and much later women).  Less government intervention = less freedom.

Depends on whose freedom you care about.

[Kris]

Saw this cartoon and of course thought of this conversation.

[PeteD01]

“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?”

Nikki Haley comes back with: "“I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run — the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do. I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And we — I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.”

Naturally alot of folks took offense, mostly people with any more than two brain cells to rub together...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-28/nikki-haley-civil-war-slavery-republicans-racism

I fail to see much value in the GOP for today's voters. Makes voting day easy though.

Maybe the handwringing and follow-up discussions will cause some folks to broaden their understanding of the various things that caused the Civil War, and maybe even achieve a deeper understanding of what went into forming the US. Doubt it though, since it will just be one party saying one thing and the other saying the opposite.

Now that is a great contribution to the question at hand!

What, pray tell, is the wisdom, you apparently are privy of, that we lack and that appears to be so difficult to discern for regular folks like us that you are unable to even give a hint where this could possibly go?

Tell us about the subtleties of southern antebellum culture that may sway our ignorant minds.


Of course, there is nothing to come from this.

Haley just ran into the contradiction of right libertarianism that basically consists of dividing society into people that are assigned person status and people that are considered a resource.

And that's why Haley went poof: right libertarianism is an indefensible intellectual dud.

[ATtiny85]

“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?”

Nikki Haley comes back with: "“I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run — the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do. I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And we — I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.”

Naturally alot of folks took offense, mostly people with any more than two brain cells to rub together...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-28/nikki-haley-civil-war-slavery-republicans-racism

I fail to see much value in the GOP for today's voters. Makes voting day easy though.

Maybe the handwringing and follow-up discussions will cause some folks to broaden their understanding of the various things that caused the Civil War, and maybe even achieve a deeper understanding of what went into forming the US. Doubt it though, since it will just be one party saying one thing and the other saying the opposite.

Now that is a great contribution to the question at hand!

What, pray tell, is the wisdom, you apparently are privy of, that we lack and that appears to be so difficult to discern for regular folks like us that you are unable to even give a hint where this could possibly go?

Tell us about the subtleties of southern antebellum culture that may sway our ignorant minds.


Of course, there is nothing to come from this.

Haley just ran into the contradiction of right libertarianism that basically consists of dividing society into people that are assigned person status and people that are considered a resource.

And that's why Haley went poof: right libertarianism is an indefensible intellectual dud.

Oh, I meant to think and research something deeper than just saying slavery. There's the expansion of the free states. There’s the financial impact to slave owners. There’s the abolition movement. There is a bunch of facets to the situation. That’s in addition to the government part of “no, you won’t leave the Union.”  Certainly the kingpin at that moment was slavery, as it was a large catalyst (and a horrible thing of course.)

If one can separate the pure human piece and discuss the many layers, it can make for good conversation and learning. However, that’s not possible on this board or really any other, since it just degrades into never never land. Not unlike the initial phase of the Israel Hamas thread. Very tough with the lag in posts and the fact everyone reads into comments what they want.

[Glenstache]

“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?”

Nikki Haley comes back with: "“I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run — the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do. I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And we — I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.”

Naturally alot of folks took offense, mostly people with any more than two brain cells to rub together...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-28/nikki-haley-civil-war-slavery-republicans-racism

I fail to see much value in the GOP for today's voters. Makes voting day easy though.

Maybe the handwringing and follow-up discussions will cause some folks to broaden their understanding of the various things that caused the Civil War, and maybe even achieve a deeper understanding of what went into forming the US. Doubt it though, since it will just be one party saying one thing and the other saying the opposite.

Now that is a great contribution to the question at hand!

What, pray tell, is the wisdom, you apparently are privy of, that we lack and that appears to be so difficult to discern for regular folks like us that you are unable to even give a hint where this could possibly go?

Tell us about the subtleties of southern antebellum culture that may sway our ignorant minds.


Of course, there is nothing to come from this.

Haley just ran into the contradiction of right libertarianism that basically consists of dividing society into people that are assigned person status and people that are considered a resource.

And that's why Haley went poof: right libertarianism is an indefensible intellectual dud.

Oh, I meant to think and research something deeper than just saying slavery. There's the expansion of the free states. There’s the financial impact to slave owners. There’s the abolition movement. There is a bunch of facets to the situation. That’s in addition to the government part of “no, you won’t leave the Union.”  Certainly the kingpin at that moment was slavery, as it was a large catalyst (and a horrible thing of course.)

If one can separate the pure human piece and discuss the many layers, it can make for good conversation and learning. However, that’s not possible on this board or really any other, since it just degrades into never never land. Not unlike the initial phase of the Israel Hamas thread. Very tough with the lag in posts and the fact everyone reads into comments what they want.

The founding documents of the Confederacy are an explicitly pro slavery manifesto. Haley's fidge on the question was a dog whistle to the Trump base. She was not looking to make a teachable moment and the gap between a nuanced discussion of the political maneuvering used to avoid the slavery issue fir the first 70 years of the country and omission of the central tenant of the Civil War is not something that should be given a pass. What us disgusting is the number of people who claim that opposition to her a answer should be political party aligned. There is literally nothing more un-American in our history than the Confederacy.

[Fru-Gal]

It's great that we are seeing the 14th amendment discussion (first proposed by conservative constitutional scholars) come out in the open now with 2 states taking action (and hopefully more to come). Funny post today said that if Trump wishes to ignore the 14th, then Obama should ignore the 22nd!

[PeteD01]

“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?”

Nikki Haley comes back with: "“I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run — the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do. I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And we — I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.”

Naturally alot of folks took offense, mostly people with any more than two brain cells to rub together...

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-28/nikki-haley-civil-war-slavery-republicans-racism

I fail to see much value in the GOP for today's voters. Makes voting day easy though.

Maybe the handwringing and follow-up discussions will cause some folks to broaden their understanding of the various things that caused the Civil War, and maybe even achieve a deeper understanding of what went into forming the US. Doubt it though, since it will just be one party saying one thing and the other saying the opposite.

Now that is a great contribution to the question at hand!

What, pray tell, is the wisdom, you apparently are privy of, that we lack and that appears to be so difficult to discern for regular folks like us that you are unable to even give a hint where this could possibly go?

Tell us about the subtleties of southern antebellum culture that may sway our ignorant minds.


Of course, there is nothing to come from this.

Haley just ran into the contradiction of right libertarianism that basically consists of dividing society into people that are assigned person status and people that are considered a resource.

And that's why Haley went poof: right libertarianism is an indefensible intellectual dud.

Oh, I meant to think and research something deeper than just saying slavery. There's the expansion of the free states.

There was indeed an increase in the number of free states whereas the slave state number stayed the same in the years leading up to the civil war.
But the real issue at the time was that the black population living under the condition of enslavement had seen major increases which led to the enslavers stealing children from their parents and selling them to the highest bidders which often came from newly available areas. The slaveholders not only wanted to expand their labor camp system into new territories and states, but also wanted their slaving laws to be enforceable at the minimum of at least using the criminal justice system to capture and return "fugitive slaves" or tolerate the recapture by agents of the slavers.
That aggressive expansion, particularly to the west, was met with opposition.

There’s the financial impact to slave owners.

Curiously, the financial impact was not limited to the slaveholders but was also to the economy at large. Agricultural production in the slavery system was modernized in the decades before the civil war and had become big business, especially growing cotton for export.
There were economic interests in the free states directly or indirectly linked to slavery to a degree that responsibility for those investors from free states cannot be considered any less than that of the slaveholders themselves.
That begs the question why the civil war happened at all - given the alignment of business interests in the free states and the slave states.

There’s the abolition movement.

The abolition movement was not homogenous and is probably best defined by having a moral objection to slavery and its importance is difficult to overstate.
It was the abolitionists who made it possible to be heard for those subjected to the horrendous atrocities that were committed in the slave states on a daily basis and as a matter of course, and their accomplishments include the abolition of slavery in the northern states which set the stage for the eventual elimination of slavery in the US.

There is a bunch of facets to the situation. That’s in addition to the government part of “no, you won’t leave the Union.”

Well, the slave states wanted their laws to be enforceable in the free states and, in addition, wanted to be allowed to ignore federal laws that were threatening their "peculiar institution" (that, and only that, is what the "state’s rights" dog whistle refers to).
Here, the slave states encountered another peculiarity: classical liberalism with its assertion of universal applicability and willingness to follow through with that assertion.

Certainly the kingpin at that moment was slavery, as it was a large catalyst (and a horrible thing of course.)

Slavery was not just the lynchpin (I think that's what you meant to say) holding things precariously together, but rather the central issue that unified a number of political developments that together made a military solution possible.

If one can separate the pure human piece and discuss the many layers, it can make for good conversation and learning.

Ok, let's learn something:
The US constitution was created by people who were heavily influenced by enlightenment thought and particularly by classical liberalism.
As a consequence, the constitution is a document reflecting their concerns.
From "inalienable" individual rights to the right of "pursuit of happiness" and its justification by reference to natural law (they were deists so the reference to a creator is not relevant here) to "We hold these truths to be self-evident", in the Declaration of Independence, shows where things were going.
Classical liberalism is not a philosophy that is difficult to understand.
In a nutshell, classical liberalism tells us that individual and economic liberty are great goods that deserve to be defended.
In classical liberalism, individual liberty is the freedom of the individual to act according to their own free will up to the point of interference with other interests and the freedom of not being interfered with without valid justification - that includes government action.
Economic liberty in classical liberalism is the right of the individual to enjoy the fruits of their own labor without hindrance unless there is a valid justification.
Obviously, we are looking at an ongoing negotiation here and not at sets of rules to be imposed.

So yes, the correct answer to the question of what was the cause of the civil war, in the context of Nikki Haley's town hall or whatever it was, would have been "slavery".

But Haley got on another track which curiously would have lead to a more nuanced position. She started out talking about liberties mentioning the government and individual liberties:

the catalysts were “basically how the government was going to run” and “freedoms and what people could and couldn't do."

That would have been a good start but she could not go where the path leads:

The civil war was caused by a fundamental contradiction between the universalism of classical liberalism and a culture based on the establishment of an oligarchic system of government that took the form of a kind of landed nobility extracting wealth from a subjugated and horribly tortured, maimed and murdered population that was even denied full personhood and citizenship.
The cause of the civil war is the fundamental incompatibility of classical liberalism, as expressed in the laws and practices established in the United States, with slavery.

That Nikki Haley could not say this as a presidential candidate for the former party of Lincoln is an absolute disgrace.


However, that’s not possible on this board or really any other, since it just degrades into never never land. Not unlike the initial phase of the Israel Hamas thread. Very tough with the lag in posts and the fact everyone reads into comments what they want.

C'mon now.

[Just Joe]

It's amazing how many people in the "freedom and no government intervention in people's lives" don't appear to realize that government intervention directly resulted in freedom for black people (and much later women).  Less government intervention = less freedom.

Depends on whose freedom you care about.

Yep - the minorities, immigrants, ladies of childbearing age, and LGBTQ+ folks would like to have a word...

[ATtiny85]

So yes, the correct answer to the question of what was the cause of the civil war, in the context of Nikki Haley's town hall or whatever it was, would have been "slavery".

But Haley got on another track which curiously would have lead to a more nuanced position. She started out talking about liberties mentioning the government and individual liberties:

Thanks for the thoughtful response, good stuff in there. Clipped most of it off, will read it again later (likely when I should be working…)

[Glenstache]

Turns out that President Trump is now just citizen Trump and does not have the immunity of a king.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/us/politics/trump-immunity-appeals-court.html

[GuitarStv]

Turns out that President Trump is now just citizen Trump and does not have the immunity of a king.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/us/politics/trump-immunity-appeals-court.html

We'll see what happens as this gets appealed to the Supreme Court.  Certainly a step in the right direction towards ending presidential legal impunity.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Americans polled about the cause of the civil war (Dec 2023 discussion):

"More Democrats (62%) than Republicans (53%) cite slavery as the main issue; slightly more Black Americans (61%) than white Americans (56%) cite slavery."
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/45912-what-do-americans-think-about-civil-war?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2023%2F07%2F17%2Fwhat-do-americans-think-about-civil-war

---

Trump will take immunity if he can get it, but he was also unhappy with the chance of a fast track decision.  His goal, at least in part, seems to be delaying the trial.  I have a vague impression this is the same tactic he has used in prior lawsuits.

[bacchi]

Americans polled about the cause of the civil war (Dec 2023 discussion):

"More Democrats (62%) than Republicans (53%) cite slavery as the main issue; slightly more Black Americans (61%) than white Americans (56%) cite slavery."
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/45912-what-do-americans-think-about-civil-war?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2023%2F07%2F17%2Fwhat-do-americans-think-about-civil-war

---

I'm surprised it's so low. From that same poll, "In regard to which side won the Civil War, 70% of Americans correctly identify the North as the winner. The rest incorrectly identify the South (7%), say neither side won (10%), or are not sure (14%)." !!!

Trump will take immunity if he can get it, but he was also unhappy with the chance of a fast track decision.  His goal, at least in part, seems to be delaying the trial.  I have a vague impression this is the same tactic he has used in prior lawsuits.

That does seem to be his MO. It's not necessarily a good strategy for the civil cases, where he has to put up bond money to appeal. It's currently over $90M he has to hand over to the court.

[sonofsven]

I think Trump declaring yesterday at one of his fascist rallies that he would encourage Russia to attack our NATO allies if they don't "pay" qualifies as a continued outrage.
What a POS.

[GuitarStv]

Americans polled about the cause of the civil war (Dec 2023 discussion):

"More Democrats (62%) than Republicans (53%) cite slavery as the main issue; slightly more Black Americans (61%) than white Americans (56%) cite slavery."
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/45912-what-do-americans-think-about-civil-war?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2023%2F07%2F17%2Fwhat-do-americans-think-about-civil-war

Jesus Christ . . . 40% of Democrats and 50% of Republicans don't know the primary cause of the American civil war???

[nereo]

I think Trump declaring yesterday at one of his fascist rallies that he would encourage Russia to attack our NATO allies if they don't "pay" qualifies as a continued outrage.
What a POS.

I find it disturbing how he views all allies/friendships as completely transactional. Either you are in good standing (for now) or delinquent. If you are delinquent be prepared to be kicked to the curb. All of our ( the USA’s) previous commitments and ideology is meaningless to Trump

[Posthumane]

What I find interesting about his comments is the concept that if a nation is "delinquent" in payments to an organization the US is part of, then he can decide that the US will also be delinquent in obligations to the same organization. It's kind of like saying "since some people rent cars at Budget and then skip out on the bill, that means I'm free to crash the car I just rented." He fails to differentiate between NATO, the US government, and even himself it seems.

[RetiredAt63]

I think Trump declaring yesterday at one of his fascist rallies that he would encourage Russia to attack our NATO allies if they don't "pay" qualifies as a continued outrage.
What a POS.

I find it disturbing how he views all allies/friendships as completely transactional. Either you are in good standing (for now) or delinquent. If you are delinquent be prepared to be kicked to the curb. All of our ( the USA’s) previous commitments and ideology is meaningless to Trump

He is totally transactional.  Remember when he called Canada a security risk because he wanted to put a tariff on something?  You can put a tariff on an import without insulting your strong ally and neighbour.  I know a lot of non-political people who started boycotting US goods after that one.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

The Civil War poll results surprised me, too.

Americans polled about the cause of the civil war (Dec 2023 discussion):

"More Democrats (62%) than Republicans (53%) cite slavery as the main issue; slightly more Black Americans (61%) than white Americans (56%) cite slavery."
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/45912-what-do-americans-think-about-civil-war?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2023%2F07%2F17%2Fwhat-do-americans-think-about-civil-war

This article did not consider that 90% of Black Americans vote Democratic (which I looked up elsewhere).  On a scale of 53% Republican to 62% Democrat, you would expect Black Americans to be at 61% based solely on politics, which matches the poll results.

Black Americans aren't more aware of the Civil War, they're just more likely to be Democrats.  That also surprised me, given the significance of the Civil War in ending slavery.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Public service announcement: "Trump says" is not news, it is a distraction.
(1) the source of the story is Trump
(2) the news articles quote him word for word

I'm guilty of being distracted by this one, also, but I'd suggest using it against Trump later.  Instead, ask yourself why Trump said something offensive right now.

Trump mocked Nikki Haley's husband for not campaigning with her.  Nicky Haley shot back that he is "Serving our country, something you know nothing about."  Trump has no defense for this line of attack - he did not serve in Vietnam, thanks to bone spurs that supposedly meant he couldn't walk... but never interfered with his tennis games.  Part of the reason for distraction is to remove this story from the news, and prevent Nikki Haley from being in the news.

Congress had a bipartisan border deal worked out, until Trump told Republicans to kill it.  He wants immigration to be an issue for Joe Biden, even if he has to prolong the problem.  News articles were shifting blame onto Trump for the immigration crisis (New York Times & Fox News both use this phrase).  This is an important story Trump needed to remove from the media.

When you see "Trump says", remember Trump decided to distract you.  Ask yourself "From what?"

[reeshau]

I think Trump declaring yesterday at one of his fascist rallies that he would encourage Russia to attack our NATO allies if they don't "pay" qualifies as a continued outrage.
What a POS.

I find it disturbing how he views all allies/friendships as completely transactional. Either you are in good standing (for now) or delinquent. If you are delinquent be prepared to be kicked to the curb. All of our ( the USA’s) previous commitments and ideology is meaningless to Trump

He's the same with people.  How many cabinet members were "great people" when announced, only to be ridiculed on the way out?  The line of suckers must be shorter, or at least less qualified.

[Glenstache]

Public service announcement: "Trump says" is not news, it is a distraction.
(1) the source of the story is Trump
(2) the news articles quote him word for word

I'm guilty of being distracted by this one, also, but I'd suggest using it against Trump later.  Instead, ask yourself why Trump said something offensive right now.

Trump mocked Nikki Haley's husband for not campaigning with her.  Nicky Haley shot back that he is "Serving our country, something you know nothing about."  Trump has no defense for this line of attack - he did not serve in Vietnam, thanks to bone spurs that supposedly meant he couldn't walk... but never interfered with his tennis games.  Part of the reason for distraction is to remove this story from the news, and prevent Nikki Haley from being in the news.

Congress had a bipartisan border deal worked out, until Trump told Republicans to kill it.  He wants immigration to be an issue for Joe Biden, even if he has to prolong the problem.  News articles were shifting blame onto Trump for the immigration crisis (New York Times & Fox News both use this phrase).  This is an important story Trump needed to remove from the media.

When you see "Trump says", remember Trump decided to distract you.  Ask yourself "From what?"

One outrageous thing is disqualifying. A litany of them is apparently an effective strategy.

[LennStar]

Public service announcement: "Trump says" is not news, it is a distraction.
(1) the source of the story is Trump
(2) the news articles quote him word for word

I'm guilty of being distracted by this one, also, but I'd suggest using it against Trump later.  Instead, ask yourself why Trump said something offensive right now.

Trump mocked Nikki Haley's husband for not campaigning with her.  Nicky Haley shot back that he is "Serving our country, something you know nothing about."  Trump has no defense for this line of attack - he did not serve in Vietnam, thanks to bone spurs that supposedly meant he couldn't walk... but never interfered with his tennis games.  Part of the reason for distraction is to remove this story from the news, and prevent Nikki Haley from being in the news.

Congress had a bipartisan border deal worked out, until Trump told Republicans to kill it.  He wants immigration to be an issue for Joe Biden, even if he has to prolong the problem.  News articles were shifting blame onto Trump for the immigration crisis (New York Times & Fox News both use this phrase).  This is an important story Trump needed to remove from the media.

When you see "Trump says", remember Trump decided to distract you.  Ask yourself "From what?"

One outrageous thing is disqualifying. A litany of them is apparently an effective strategy.

Flood the space with shit. Then nobody wants to touch it.

[OzzieandHarriet]

Trump does this stuff so he can stay "above the fold" (how they used to describe newspaper stories on the front page). Free publicity. I WISH the media would stop reporting his insane spewings as if they are thought-out policy positions.

[Travis]

Trump does this stuff so he can stay "above the fold" (how they used to describe newspaper stories on the front page). Free publicity. I WISH the media would stop reporting his insane spewings as if they are thought-out policy positions.

They need the viewership. I saw an article a couple days ago recounting from some journalists how utterly boring covering Biden's first year in office was because he's not an outrageous personality racking up controversy.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Trump does this stuff so he can stay "above the fold" (how they used to describe newspaper stories on the front page). Free publicity. I WISH the media would stop reporting his insane spewings as if they are thought-out policy positions.

They need the viewership. I saw an article a couple days ago recounting from some journalists how utterly boring covering Biden's first year in office was because he's not an outrageous personality racking up controversy.

The news media get paid in advertising.  Maybe people should blame companies that profit off these "Trump says" stories, by advertising next to the story.

Trump's views on NATO should be debated, later.  But right now Trump is convincing Republicans to vote down a bipartisan bill on the border crisis (called such by NYT and Fox).  Too bad the media get paid to have the attention span of a goldfish.

[jrhampt]

^^Trump has already tanked the border bill.  Now he's tanking Ukraine funding again.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

^^Trump has already tanked the border bill.  Now he's tanking Ukraine funding again.

In polls, Biden has a weakness on immigration, so Trump is exploiting that.  But Trump told Republicans to kill the bipartisan border bill, which is embarrassingly hypocritical on his part.  If the media focused on it more, it could shift how voters view the issue, and impact the election.

[PeteD01]

The House Oversight Committee and its chairman James Comer apparently are running an election interference operation in favor of 45 that is directly supported by Russian intelligence services.

And the name of the informant is Alexander Smirnov ...

The GOP’s Star Hunter Biden Witness Was Getting Info From Russian Intelligence: DOJ
Alexander Smirnov told U.S. law enforcement that Russian intelligence officials had been “involved in passing a story” about the president's son

BY NIKKI MCCANN RAMIREZ

FEBRUARY 20, 2024

A FORMER FBI informant charged with fabricating accusations of corruption against President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter Biden, told law enforcement that he has been in contact with high-level Russian intelligence officials who were “involved in passing [along] a story” about Hunter Biden.

According to a Justice Department filing released Tuesday, Alexander Smirnov — who was arrested last Thursday in Las Vegas — told authorities who conducted his custody interview that he had “contacts with multiple foreign intelligence agencies and had plans to leave the United States two days after he was arrested last week for a months-long, multi-country foreign trip.”

“During his custodial interview on February 14, Smirnov admitted that officials associated with Russian intelligence were involved in passing a story about [Hunter Biden],” the Justice Department wrote.

The filing notes that “law enforcement knows about Smirnov’s contact with officials affiliated with Russian intelligence because Smirnov himself reported on a number of those contacts to his FBI Handler. … Of particular note, Smirnov has reported numerous contacts with Russian Official 1, who has been described by Smirnov in a number of ways, including as the son of a former high-ranking Russian government official, someone who purportedly controls two groups of individuals tasked with carrying out assassination efforts in a third-party country, a Russian representative to another country, and as someone with ties to a particular Russian intelligence service.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/alexander-smirnov-hunter-biden-russian-intelligence-1234972079/

[PeteD01]

That is what it comes down to: either James Comer and Jim Jordan were easy dupes for Russian intelligence or they were part of the conspiracy to impeach president Biden using manufactured "evidence".
Either way, this is all very bad for these two:

Jim Jordan Is in Deep Trouble
Published Feb 21, 2024

Marcy Wheeler, a national security journalist who uses the online pseudonym Emptywheel, added: "The detention report that Smirnov is spooked up means that Comer and Jordan were easy dupes of Russian spies.

"Sorry. Did I say Comer and Jordan were easy dupes for Russian spies? I meant the entire impeachment effort."

Brian Allen, a pre-law student at Purdue University, wrote: "The Department of Justice should subpoena and probe whether Jordan was either deceived by Russian intelligence or involved in a conspiracy to oust President Biden."

https://www.newsweek.com/jim-jordan-joe-biden-impeachment-bribery-russia-1871889

[Travis]

About a week ago Trump said he wanted his daughter in law to co-chair the RNC. The speculation was that it was so she could control the RNC's purse strings and just write checks to him. Today she admitted that getting the RNC to pay his bills was the goal.

https://twitter.com/dncwarroom/status/1760412626784337938

https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1760460589413925055

[Travis]

That is what it comes down to: either James Comer and Jim Jordan were easy dupes for Russian intelligence or they were part of the conspiracy to impeach president Biden using manufactured "evidence".
Either way, this is all very bad for these two:

Jim Jordan Is in Deep Trouble
Published Feb 21, 2024

Marcy Wheeler, a national security journalist who uses the online pseudonym Emptywheel, added: "The detention report that Smirnov is spooked up means that Comer and Jordan were easy dupes of Russian spies.

"Sorry. Did I say Comer and Jordan were easy dupes for Russian spies? I meant the entire impeachment effort."

Brian Allen, a pre-law student at Purdue University, wrote: "The Department of Justice should subpoena and probe whether Jordan was either deceived by Russian intelligence or involved in a conspiracy to oust President Biden."

https://www.newsweek.com/jim-jordan-joe-biden-impeachment-bribery-russia-1871889

Jordan was confronted with this and basically said "just because it was made up doesn't mean it's not true!"

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1760350266178609508

Even FoxNews is struggling to put any kind of spin on this.

[sonofsven]

That is what it comes down to: either James Comer and Jim Jordan were easy dupes for Russian intelligence or they were part of the conspiracy to impeach president Biden using manufactured "evidence".
Either way, this is all very bad for these two:

Jim Jordan Is in Deep Trouble
Published Feb 21, 2024

Marcy Wheeler, a national security journalist who uses the online pseudonym Emptywheel, added: "The detention report that Smirnov is spooked up means that Comer and Jordan were easy dupes of Russian spies.

"Sorry. Did I say Comer and Jordan were easy dupes for Russian spies? I meant the entire impeachment effort."

Brian Allen, a pre-law student at Purdue University, wrote: "The Department of Justice should subpoena and probe whether Jordan was either deceived by Russian intelligence or involved in a conspiracy to oust President Biden."

https://www.newsweek.com/jim-jordan-joe-biden-impeachment-bribery-russia-1871889

Jordan was confronted with this and basically said "just because it was made up doesn't mean it's not true!"

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1760350266178609508

Even FoxNews is struggling to put any kind of spin on this.

Are they "easy dupes" or active participants in a Russian intelligence operation against a sitting US President?
This is one of the biggest scandals I can recall in my lifetime. Traitorous even.

[PeteD01]

That is what it comes down to: either James Comer and Jim Jordan were easy dupes for Russian intelligence or they were part of the conspiracy to impeach president Biden using manufactured "evidence".
Either way, this is all very bad for these two:

Jim Jordan Is in Deep Trouble
Published Feb 21, 2024

Marcy Wheeler, a national security journalist who uses the online pseudonym Emptywheel, added: "The detention report that Smirnov is spooked up means that Comer and Jordan were easy dupes of Russian spies.

"Sorry. Did I say Comer and Jordan were easy dupes for Russian spies? I meant the entire impeachment effort."

Brian Allen, a pre-law student at Purdue University, wrote: "The Department of Justice should subpoena and probe whether Jordan was either deceived by Russian intelligence or involved in a conspiracy to oust President Biden."

https://www.newsweek.com/jim-jordan-joe-biden-impeachment-bribery-russia-1871889

Jordan was confronted with this and basically said "just because it was made up doesn't mean it's not true!"

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1760350266178609508

Even FoxNews is struggling to put any kind of spin on this.

Are they "easy dupes" or active participants in a Russian intelligence operation against a sitting US President?
This is one of the biggest scandals I can recall in my lifetime. Traitorous even.

I think it is very unlikely that they were unaware of the source of the disinformation.

James Comer and Tucker Carlson aren't fooled by Russian lies — they're complicit
It would be easier if we could believe Republicans were being played by Putin. The truth is much worse
By AMANDA MARCOTTE
FEBRUARY 22, 2024

On CNN on Tuesday, House Oversight Committee member Rep. Dan Goldman, D-N.Y., suggested there might be more than stupidity motivating Comer and his fellow impeachment fanatics. "Wittingly or unwittingly, House Republicans have been acting as an agent or an asset of Russian intelligence for Vladimir Putin," he explained, with that word "wittingly" right there for the taking. He pointed out that Trump's first impeachment — which he worked on as a House Democratic lawyer — exposed how much Russia had worked to spread disinformation about the Biden family. There's no reason to reach for ignorance as an explanation, Goldman concluded: "Republicans are willing to be used as assets of Russian intelligence."

A strong case that Republicans are acting out of malice rather than ignorance can be made from the behavior of former Fox News host Tucker Carlson, the self-appointed vanguard of right-wing depravity. Earlier this month, Carlson ventured to Moscow to host a tongue-bath "interview" with Putin in which the Russian leader told outrageous lies while Carlson, as Salon's Andrew O'Hehir wrote, played the role of "dim but obsequious schoolboy." One lie that should be obvious, even to Americans: Putin blamed the onset of World War II on Poland, which he claimed had forced the Nazis to invade in 1939.

https://www.salon.com/2024/02/22/james-comer-and-tucker-carlson-arent-fooled-by-russian-lies--they-are-complicit/

[bacchi]

About a week ago Trump said he wanted his daughter in law to co-chair the RNC. The speculation was that it was so she could control the RNC's purse strings and just write checks to him. Today she admitted that getting the RNC to pay his bills was the goal.

https://twitter.com/dncwarroom/status/1760412626784337938

https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1760460589413925055

Lara Trump stated that the RNC needed to raise $500M, which coincidentally is pretty close to what DJT needs for his court fines.

I don't see much blowback from the GOP about this, either. If the Trumps get their way, it will absolutely wreck the downstream Republican contests.

[OtherJen]

About a week ago Trump said he wanted his daughter in law to co-chair the RNC. The speculation was that it was so she could control the RNC's purse strings and just write checks to him. Today she admitted that getting the RNC to pay his bills was the goal.

https://twitter.com/dncwarroom/status/1760412626784337938

https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1760460589413925055

Lara Trump stated that the RNC needed to raise $500M, which coincidentally is pretty close to what DJT needs for his court fines.

I don't see much blowback from the GOP about this, either. If the Trumps get their way, it will absolutely wreck the downstream Republican contests.

Any many state GOPs are already in dire straits and have been described as "incompetent dumpster fires" (see link below). I wonder whether they'll buckle under pressure to support Trump's latest go-fund-me campaign. I should get some popcorn. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/20/politics/michigan-gop-financial-turmoil-infighting-invs/index.html

[Sandi_k]

About a week ago Trump said he wanted his daughter in law to co-chair the RNC. The speculation was that it was so she could control the RNC's purse strings and just write checks to him. Today she admitted that getting the RNC to pay his bills was the goal.

https://twitter.com/dncwarroom/status/1760412626784337938

https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1760460589413925055

Lara Trump stated that the RNC needed to raise $500M, which coincidentally is pretty close to what DJT needs for his court fines.

Even worse :rump is trying hard to have Lara named as the new head of the RNC. And she's on camera this week, proclaiming that if she becomes RNC Chair, every dollar raised will be used to defend Trump.

[LennStar]

About a week ago Trump said he wanted his daughter in law to co-chair the RNC. The speculation was that it was so she could control the RNC's purse strings and just write checks to him. Today she admitted that getting the RNC to pay his bills was the goal.

https://twitter.com/dncwarroom/status/1760412626784337938

https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1760460589413925055

Lara Trump stated that the RNC needed to raise $500M, which coincidentally is pretty close to what DJT needs for his court fines.

I don't see much blowback from the GOP about this, either. If the Trumps get their way, it will absolutely wreck the downstream Republican contests.

You know, if they raise 500M and give it to him to pay his court fees... there are probably worse things.

[sixwings]

Yeah the GOP not having a lot of money is one of the few things Biden seems to have going for him right now. His campaign has completely lost control of the narrative and message. With competent GOP leadership it would probably be too late to take it back but with the discrepency in money and complete incompetence in the republican party it's very possible we see the dems take back control of it.

[bacchi]

About a week ago Trump said he wanted his daughter in law to co-chair the RNC. The speculation was that it was so she could control the RNC's purse strings and just write checks to him. Today she admitted that getting the RNC to pay his bills was the goal.

https://twitter.com/dncwarroom/status/1760412626784337938

https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1760460589413925055

Lara Trump stated that the RNC needed to raise $500M, which coincidentally is pretty close to what DJT needs for his court fines.

I don't see much blowback from the GOP about this, either. If the Trumps get their way, it will absolutely wreck the downstream Republican contests.

You know, if they raise 500M and give it to him to pay his court fees... there are probably worse things.

Very true. If they don't mind giving $500M to a billionaire, who are we to complain?

[FIPurpose]

Yeah the GOP not having a lot of money is one of the few things Biden seems to have going for him right now. His campaign has completely lost control of the narrative and message. With competent GOP leadership it would probably be too late to take it back but with the discrepency in money and complete incompetence in the republican party it's very possible we see the dems take back control of it.

All GOP money is funneled into corporate media channels like OAN. They get their messaging for less money and don't have to follow pesky campaign finance rules.

Though it also seems like it's a limited market cap for those routes. The Dems really have no equivalent for massive media channels. They have to piece together lots of smaller constituencies. Biden's biggest weakness in my opinion is a potential to lose too many of these groups: Arab-Americans especially in Michigan, union workers in PA and WI, etc.

The whole presidential election will be those 3 states: WI, MI, and PA. I think Biden will win AZ and NV but lose GA.

So it sets up kind of a scary scenario where the single reps in NE and ME might make a huge difference and may make or break a tie in the electoral college (which is all but a guaranteed Trump win).

The map is a new balance of power with the 2020 census in place. For Biden to win he must take: NV, PA, and two of AZ/WI/MI/GA.

On the other hand the GOP really only needs: GA + PA as their easiest path to victory.

Of course this assumes that they hold mild swing states like FL, NC, and ME-2. That only ends with them at exactly 270/271. So nightmare scenario if electors vote for someone else.

[Just Joe]

https://www.gofundme.com/f/stand-with-trump-raise-the-settlement?s=08

[bacchi]

https://www.gofundme.com/f/stand-with-trump-raise-the-settlement?s=08

Out of their pockets and into the NY state coffers.