Author Topic: Computer Literacy  (Read 20395 times)

AlmostIndependent

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Computer Literacy
« on: January 19, 2014, 03:39:51 PM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.

/rant

Rural

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2014, 07:28:22 PM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.

/rant

+1,000

If it helps you feel any better about your situation, all of my offenders have PhDs.

Russ

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2014, 07:43:20 PM »
ha this was awful at my last job. they had just upgraded to fancy new MS Office suite, and everybody was like "yo Russ where's the copy/paste buttons?"

that was the day everybody got to learn how keyboard shortcuts worked

thankfully my current workplace is pretty tech-savvy. doesn't hurt that the average employee age is like 30 instead of a bunch of geezers

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2014, 08:06:19 PM »
that was the day everybody got to learn how keyboard shortcuts worked

I had to show someone the intricate workings of the "insert" key today. That's what prompted my post.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2014, 08:16:58 PM »
that was the day everybody got to learn how keyboard shortcuts worked

I had to show someone the intricate workings of the "insert" key today. That's what prompted my post.
I estimate that 70% of the population is completely unaware of the existence or functionality of PageUp, PageDown, Home, and End.

Wanderer

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2014, 08:40:03 PM »
I told my coworker, "Hit F9."  To my confusion, he held down shift, and then hit f--I laughed (I couldn't help it!) and said, "No, function 9." 

Do you want to enter a line break, but Word puts extra space in and indents if you do?  Just hold down space bar until you reach the next line!  Have you been filling in cells with calculations, but someone told you already that this particular value is 0?  Don't calculate it, just type in 0!  Want a page break here?  Hit Enter repeatedly! 

I am a god of Microsoft Office in my workplace because I can use styles, make bookmarks and cross-references, write simple macros, create pivot tables, make a simple database, and use mail merge.  Also I know in Excel control+shift+right arrow/control-shift-down arrow will select an entire block of data.  Heady stuff. 

Russ

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2014, 08:51:06 PM »
I estimate that 70% of the population is completely unaware of the existence or functionality of PageUp, PageDown, Home, and End.

ooh this is an interesting one because I doubt many of the young'uns know what these do either. They don't exist on phones & tablets, after all.

although they really are pretty self-explanatory

randymarsh

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2014, 09:43:16 PM »
Amen.

I try not to hate users too much because they are required for my employment and thus, FIRE.

However, it drives me nuts how helpless many of them are. If an update slightly changes the UI of an application, they literally stare at the screen scared to do anything.* If I install an application and don't put the icon on the desktop (hello Windows Key + type program name people!), they have no idea how to find it. Uh...Start > All Programs maybe?

Then there are the WTF moments. I was replacing someone's PC. They were running XP and now are on 7. This user logged in at 8AM when the office opened. I set up their new machine at 11AM. When I said OK you can go ahead and log in like you always do, they no longer knew their password. Huh? You used it 3 hours ago!

*Just had an epiphany. This is why people go crazy when Facebook does an update. This is why they start those dumbass petitions.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 09:46:07 PM by thefinancialstudent »

Nords

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2014, 10:25:19 PM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.
/rant
Do you guys get paid to help these people (in other words, it's your job), or are they just taking advantage of you?

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2014, 10:56:30 PM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.
/rant
Do you guys get paid to help these people (in other words, it's your job), or are they just taking advantage of you?

I can't speak for anyone else but in my case it isn't my job. Not even close.

arebelspy

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2014, 11:14:42 PM »
Yeah, I'm definitely the tech person at my school, have to help the other teachers when their wifi isn't working, printer, etc.

I don't mind though.

I estimate that 70% of the population is completely unaware of the existence or functionality of PageUp, PageDown, Home, and End.

I can't imagine having a keyboard without them.  So useful, especially as a shortcut for navigating tabs (control pgup/down).
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Nords

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2014, 11:18:39 PM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.
/rant
Do you guys get paid to help these people (in other words, it's your job), or are they just taking advantage of you?
I can't speak for anyone else but in my case it isn't my job. Not even close.
Then maybe the solution lies in tactfully redirecting them to a training website or to someone else who's willing to teach them.  If your boss was aware of how your time is really being exploited used, perhaps they'd feel the same way.

Ian

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2014, 11:24:39 PM »
Some of you may appreciate this article:
http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

Being unfamiliar with computers, I can understand. What bugs me is when people seem to have learned things in such a narrow way that the slightest change to UI completely baffles them. I don't want to judge them, but it always gives me the feeling they go through life doing everything by rote instead of thinking.

Rural

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2014, 04:56:59 AM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.
/rant
Do you guys get paid to help these people (in other words, it's your job), or are they just taking advantage of you?
I can't speak for anyone else but in my case it isn't my job. Not even close.
Then maybe the solution lies in tactfully redirecting them to a training website or to someone else who's willing to teach them.  If your boss was aware of how your time is really being exploited used, perhaps they'd feel the same way.

Guilty as charged. Definitely not my job. However, becoming well-known as the tech savvy one is beginning to pay off for me in other ways, with opportunities I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
I'm also angling for a blended (faculty/IT) position I want and a consulting back-up option with the state which I've started to make some progress on. So it may be worth it to me, if exasperating.

matchewed

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2014, 06:44:45 AM »
I definitely get called to our shop floor to help with basic IT issues. I also tell them it is not my job and to contact IT. But if there is something simple to be done or I need it done now I take care of it.

jba302

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2014, 07:50:04 AM »
I'm the tech person in my department because I know how to use Excel and task manager. It's basically wizardry to them, despite the fact that when I was learning excel in high school, they should have been learning excel while doing this exact job.

I don't mind it though since I get put on project work due to my "tech skills." It's kind of like getting recognized for walking properly.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2014, 07:54:29 AM »
It's kind of like getting recognized for walking properly.

That's how I feel.

arebelspy

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2014, 08:15:05 AM »
Some of you may appreciate this article:
http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

Great article, thanks for sharing.

The crazy part, which I'm sure most of you have noticed, is that people seem unwilling to try and figure it out.  I often have no idea how to do what they ask, but can usually figure it out by clicking around for a few minutes.  A little logic/deduction and the problem is easily solved.  Instead they're helpless.

I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
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lizzzi

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2014, 08:19:39 AM »
Yeah, well I got my first computer in 2004, so I am probably one of the people you are talking about. It hurts my feelings, but I keep trying to learn, and how can one learn without asking for help sometimes? I do try my best to sort it out myself, and when I was still in the workforce, would of course consult the IT department, and not bother people when it was not their job to assist me. To this day, I can't figure out Facebook; it seems like a stupid waste of time. My friends are people I sit down with and have a cup of coffee--not a bunch of icons I'm having a pseudo-relationship with online. And guess what--I can actually write in cursive! I understand that is considered an irrelevant skill…but the day will come when people will approach me asking for help to read handwritten, hardcopy notes, cards, and letters. M--wa--ha--ha.

ace1224

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2014, 08:27:10 AM »
i'm horrible.  but on the bright side i feel like i keep the IT guy here at work in business so they can't ever get rid of that position bc my workplace will just freak.  i managed to get myself locked out of work intranet just this morning.

Russ

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2014, 08:31:39 AM »
Yeah, well I got my first computer in 2004, so I am probably one of the people you are talking about. It hurts my feelings, but I keep trying to learn, and how can one learn without asking for help sometimes? I do try my best to sort it out myself, and when I was still in the workforce, would of course consult the IT department, and not bother people when it was not their job to assist me. To this day, I can't figure out Facebook; it seems like a stupid waste of time. My friends are people I sit down with and have a cup of coffee--not a bunch of icons I'm having a pseudo-relationship with online. And guess what--I can actually write in cursive! I understand that is considered an irrelevant skill…but the day will come when people will approach me asking for help to read handwritten, hardcopy notes, cards, and letters. M--wa--ha--ha.

People who are willing to learn are great, that doesn't bother me (and probably most others on this thread) at all. It's the guy who's had the same tech-heavy job for 20 years and should really be with it by now that gets me.

Nords

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2014, 08:39:40 AM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.
/rant
Do you guys get paid to help these people (in other words, it's your job), or are they just taking advantage of you?
I can't speak for anyone else but in my case it isn't my job. Not even close.
Then maybe the solution lies in tactfully redirecting them to a training website or to someone else who's willing to teach them.  If your boss was aware of how your time is really being exploited used, perhaps they'd feel the same way.

Guilty as charged. Definitely not my job. However, becoming well-known as the tech savvy one is beginning to pay off for me in other ways, with opportunities I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
I'm also angling for a blended (faculty/IT) position I want and a consulting back-up option with the state which I've started to make some progress on. So it may be worth it to me, if exasperating.
I guess the people you're coping with now are just the sparring partners helping you train for the big match.  I doubt you'll be more impressed by the skills of the people you meet at the state level!

My personal frustration started when my 13-year-old daughter couldn't make the Internet work the way she wanted it to.  When I attempted to explain the issue, her overloaded brain exploded with an outburst that accused me of being ignorant.  Eight years later we're getting a little better, but let's just say that I'm happy to let the Navy's XOs take over the challenge. 

I should probably e-mail her this:

arebelspy

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2014, 08:39:56 AM »
Yeah, well I got my first computer in 2004, so I am probably one of the people you are talking about. It hurts my feelings, but I keep trying to learn, and how can one learn without asking for help sometimes? I do try my best to sort it out myself, and when I was still in the workforce, would of course consult the IT department, and not bother people when it was not their job to assist me. To this day, I can't figure out Facebook; it seems like a stupid waste of time. My friends are people I sit down with and have a cup of coffee--not a bunch of icons I'm having a pseudo-relationship with online. And guess what--I can actually write in cursive! I understand that is considered an irrelevant skill…but the day will come when people will approach me asking for help to read handwritten, hardcopy notes, cards, and letters. M--wa--ha--ha.

You made it on to this forum - that's already a decent start.

Compare that to many high school kids in my wife's yearbook class that can't utilize dropbox because they don't know what an email address is.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

jba302

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2014, 08:44:11 AM »
Appropriate to the conversation - Last week I had someone argue with me about the distributive property. As in she had a question about a calculation, I answered it with a very comprehensive written explanation, and her reply was "I think you're wrong, this doesn't make sense." So I wrote a macro in excel VB to do the calculation to prevent her from seeing how it works (which I could literally explain as magic and not get push back on). A lot of people use it. I got a lot of congratulations for that.

Nords

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2014, 08:46:38 AM »
Compare that to many high school kids in my wife's yearbook class that can't utilize dropbox because they don't know what an email address is.
I can't fault a high-school kid for finding e-mail irrelevant to their existence.  Maybe e-mail really is broken... I'm lookin' at you, Yahoo & Hotmail!

lizzzi

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2014, 08:47:49 AM »
I've written three (unpublished) novels on my computer, and the reviews I do for Historical Novels Review are all done online and scanned and emailed to the editors. So yes, while I write in cursive, make totally hand-stitched patchwork quilts, and always preferred my horses to my cars, I am modern. My grandmother told me that our family had the first sewing machine in Jackson county, West Virginia--so I'm genetically coded to be technological. (I do agree that clicking around and googling the tech. question can often produce the answer without having to bother people.)

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2014, 08:57:14 AM »
I can't imagine having a keyboard without them.  So useful, especially as a shortcut for navigating tabs (control pgup/down).

WOW! I actually had no idea about that little shortcut. snazzy. thanks man!

The crazy part, which I'm sure most of you have noticed, is that people seem unwilling to try and figure it out.  I often have no idea how to do what they ask, but can usually figure it out by clicking around for a few minutes.  A little logic/deduction and the problem is easily solved.  Instead they're helpless.

YES. this issue always makes me think of the XKCD that Nords posted.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2014, 09:10:08 AM »
Compare that to many high school kids in my wife's yearbook class that can't utilize dropbox because they don't know what an email address is.
Wait, what? Doesn't virtually every single website on earth require an email to signup? Or do they get their accounts created by somebody else?

Half-Borg

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2014, 09:24:33 AM »
Compare that to many high school kids in my wife's yearbook class that can't utilize dropbox because they don't know what an email address is.
I can't fault a high-school kid for finding e-mail irrelevant to their existence.  Maybe e-mail really is broken... I'm lookin' at you, Yahoo & Hotmail!

E-Mail really is out dated, I only use it to communicate with my parents and businesses. I rarly send an E-Mail to my friends. Whatsapp, Facebook and the like are way better at everything.

The thread reminds me off a phone conversation with my Ex-girlfriend, after she started college. She got an PDF from one of the profs and could not open it, because she didn't have Acrobat Reader. So I told her to download it. "How do I do that?" I ended up walking her through the whole process of finding it on the adobe website, installing it:

"This box says: 'Do you really want to...'"
"Whatever, click yes"
"But you don't know what it says, I haven't read it all to you"
"Yeah just click next"
"Do you know all the boxes from the top of your head?"
She couldn't grasp that you just always click 'Yes' or 'Next' or 'Ok' and end up with a fine installation, whatever the program

Later on she complained that she had learn all this computer stuff all the time instead of actually studying. We are talking about basic stuff, like copying a file to a flash drive or opening a CD, nothing advanced like setting up a WiFi. I feel like someone saying: "But I'm an engineer, why should I know how to operator an oven, ovens are for cooks."

Quote
Wait, what? Doesn't virtually every single website on earth require an email to signup? Or do they get their accounts created by somebody else?
Why would one want to sign up for a website?

Russ

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2014, 09:36:49 AM »
Compare that to many high school kids in my wife's yearbook class that can't utilize dropbox because they don't know what an email address is.
Wait, what? Doesn't virtually every single website on earth require an email to signup? Or do they get their accounts created by somebody else?
or you can "sign up with Facebook" so they can harvest your data
don't know if FB still requires an email addy to sign up though, probably does

Nords

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2014, 09:45:50 AM »
E-Mail really is out dated, I only use it to communicate with my parents and businesses. I rarly send an E-Mail to my friends. Whatsapp, Facebook and the like are way better at everything.
My spouse and I refer to this as "140-character syndrome".  When you're typing on a mobile keyboard, or squinting at a palm-sized display, you're not going to notice the e-mail attachments-- let alone an elegantly-constructed four-paragraph description of a problem and its solution, or your request for assistance.  People won't use enough words to describe the problem, let alone enough thoughtful discussion to articulate a solution-- but maybe they'll send 50 texts back and forth to try to decrypt each other's lack of understanding.

Nope.  Instead you're going to default to TL;DR and send back "Gr8 tks."  If the recipient is exceptionally lucky they'll also be informed that your deathless prose is "Sent from my iPhone."

We used to refer to this as "phoning it in".  Our parents might have said that they "Didn't get the memo." 

I'm pretty sure that Socrates and Plato used to bitch about it too. 

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2014, 09:50:25 AM »
(I do agree that clicking around and googling the tech. question can often produce the answer without having to bother people.)

This alone puts you light years ahead of some of the people I work with.

arebelspy

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2014, 09:54:31 AM »
Compare that to many high school kids in my wife's yearbook class that can't utilize dropbox because they don't know what an email address is.
Wait, what? Doesn't virtually every single website on earth require an email to signup? Or do they get their accounts created by somebody else?

Yeah, some of them eventually figured it out as "the thing used to log in to Facebook" but others still haven't been able to manage to get it working.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Rural

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2014, 10:26:00 AM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.
/rant
Do you guys get paid to help these people (in other words, it's your job), or are they just taking advantage of you?
I can't speak for anyone else but in my case it isn't my job. Not even close.
Then maybe the solution lies in tactfully redirecting them to a training website or to someone else who's willing to teach them.  If your boss was aware of how your time is really being exploited used, perhaps they'd feel the same way.

Guilty as charged. Definitely not my job. However, becoming well-known as the tech savvy one is beginning to pay off for me in other ways, with opportunities I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
I'm also angling for a blended (faculty/IT) position I want and a consulting back-up option with the state which I've started to make some progress on. So it may be worth it to me, if exasperating.
I guess the people you're coping with now are just the sparring partners helping you train for the big match.  I doubt you'll be more impressed by the skills of the people you meet at the state level!


Oh, no. The state-level folks are ignorant and have more buttons to choose from, which is why I have a good shot at the consulting gig if something were to go wrong with my job and/or I get sick of the commute.

I had that very XKCD strip on my office door for a while. I know IT was amused, but I'm not so sure about anyone else.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2014, 10:40:42 AM »
ha this was awful at my last job. they had just upgraded to fancy new MS Office suite, and everybody was like "yo Russ where's the copy/paste buttons?"

that was the day everybody got to learn how keyboard shortcuts worked

thankfully my current workplace is pretty tech-savvy. doesn't hurt that the average employee age is like 30 instead of a bunch of geezers

A few months ago I had to take a employment test on an Excel simulator. It had keyboard shortcuts disabled. I can use Excel for hours without touching my mouse and I swear I lost 10 points on my score because I couldn't figure out how to do things with a mouse.
Hahaha, I have heard the opposite: senior-level analysts taking away the mouse from the fresh class of finance analysts as an initiation thing, to teach them how to become excel wizards the hard way.

It works well for teaching anyone how to use unix too. Noobs, I tell ya.

Jamesqf

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2014, 12:02:08 PM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.

/rant

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  Seriously, your idea of computer literacy is being able to use Microsoft Word?  Guess what?  I don't have an effing clue as to how to use Word, either - even if I had a machine that'd run Windoze.  Do you know how to use LaTeX?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 01:05:26 PM by Jamesqf »

Rural

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2014, 12:07:14 PM »
I realize that not everyone has grown up with a computer in the house, but seriously, why is it still acceptable for people in the workplace to not be computer literate? I'm tired of having to put down my work to help people understand how to type shit into Microsoft Word. It is the 21st century.

/rant

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  Seriously, your idea of computer literacy is being able to use Microsoft Word?  Guess what?  I don't have an effing clue as to how to use Word, either - even if I has a machine that'd run Windoze.  Do you know how to use LaTeX?

Yes, but if you felt a need to use Word for some reason, you'd know how in ten minutes because you know how to figure things out. Part of the trouble with people like the ones the OP describes is that they think of computers as little magic boxes with outputs completly unrelated to user inputs, and as a consequence, they're afraid to do anything for fear they will "mess up the computer."

ETA I know how to use LaTeX.

GuitarStv

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2014, 12:16:29 PM »
Do you know how to use LaTeX?

Latex is tricky.  The key is in unrolling it properly and getting out of the wrapper in the heat of the moment.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 12:38:41 PM by GuitarStv »

ender

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2014, 12:22:17 PM »
that was the day everybody got to learn how keyboard shortcuts worked

I'm teaching some 7th graders Photoshop - they were asking "how to do I add this picture?" and all I could think of was copy image, and control v - I have no idea how to 'insert' or 'paste' an image other than that.

Fortunately, it works.

Just last Friday I had an engineer trying to get me to do a really basic vlookup for him and sad I wouldn't just do it for him. Wtf dude. You're an engineer making 60k or something at least a year, teach yourself how to use basic Excel.

All engineers should be required to take a 3-credit "how to use Excel" class as part of any accredited engineering degree program. Seriously.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2014, 01:06:11 PM »
I realize everyone has different skill levels but basic computer skills are something you need to function in almost every workplace now. If your skills are lacking just take a basic class. They're offered almost everywhere and are often cheap/free. It really isn't that difficult.

Jamesqf

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2014, 01:18:18 PM »
Yes, but if you felt a need to use Word for some reason, you'd know how in ten minutes because you know how to figure things out.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't.  I seem to suffer from dysiconia - a word I coined by analogy to dyslexia - which means that I'm pretty much at a loss when it comes to anything that depends on figuring out what those 'intuitive' icons are supposed to mean.  And my idea of 'figuring things out' is to RTFM, which is kind of a non-starter when applications are supposedly so intuitive that they don't need manuals.

All engineers should be required to take a 3-credit "how to use Excel" class as part of any accredited engineering degree program. Seriously.

Err...  Why?  Matlab/Octave or something like that, sure, but lots of us may never work on Windoze systems.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2014, 01:21:19 PM »
Replace Excel by any spreadsheet program, they all work more or less the same.

Wanderer

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2014, 01:35:22 PM »
Compare that to many high school kids in my wife's yearbook class that can't utilize dropbox because they don't know what an email address is.
Wait, what? Doesn't virtually every single website on earth require an email to signup? Or do they get their accounts created by somebody else?

Yeah, some of them eventually figured it out as "the thing used to log in to Facebook" but others still haven't been able to manage to get it working.

Someone keeps trying to use my email address to log into Facebook.  When she made the account I started to get spam from Facebook, so I changed her password, logged in, and messaged one of the friends she'd added to say, "Tell your friend she's using someone else's email address to make her Facebook account, she needs to make a new account with a new address."  Then I deactivated the account, and now I get spam occasionally saying, "We understand you're having trouble logging into Facebook!  Click here for account help!"  I wonder if she ever managed to make a new account. 

I have a very simple email address that apparently a lot of people think belongs to them.  I've lost track of the number of things I've been signed up for by someone else.  The most noteworthy one was an S&M newsgroup. 

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2014, 02:05:07 PM »
Yes, but if you felt a need to use Word for some reason, you'd know how in ten minutes because you know how to figure things out.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't.  I seem to suffer from dysiconia - a word I coined by analogy to dyslexia - which means that I'm pretty much at a loss when it comes to anything that depends on figuring out what those 'intuitive' icons are supposed to mean.  And my idea of 'figuring things out' is to RTFM, which is kind of a non-starter when applications are supposedly so intuitive that they don't need manuals.

All engineers should be required to take a 3-credit "how to use Excel" class as part of any accredited engineering degree program. Seriously.

Err...  Why?  Matlab/Octave or something like that, sure, but lots of us may never work on Windoze systems.

Lots of people are forced to use windows by the organizations they work for. I know from experience that he US Government and the State of Alaska are just two of those organizations. Like it or not I have to know how to use Word/Excel/Powerpoint etc.

Nords

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2014, 03:36:38 PM »
All engineers should be required to take a 3-credit "how to use Excel" class as part of any accredited engineering degree program. Seriously.
If it's any consolation, my daughter's civil engineering college curriculum is full of Excel.  There's no requirement to take a separate course because they're learning it in the classes.  In fact one of her "complaints" is that they do so much spreadsheet design & building from scratch that they rarely get to work on advanced techniques-- she'd prefer to take a finished file and upgrade or modify it instead of starting from scratch with every new class.

They also get plenty of experience with Gantt charts, MATLAB, and writing.  They're required to take a class in technical writing (or to validate it) but that's partly because over a quarter of the engineering students are from foreign countries.

Most of them are bilingual with OS X and Win8.1.  I'm sorry to say that they're all too familiar with PowerPoint, too.

JamesAt15

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2014, 05:18:34 PM »
To this day, I can't figure out Facebook; it seems like a stupid waste of time.

Oh, you've figured out Facebook, all right.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 05:20:10 PM by JamesAt15 »

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2014, 06:55:30 PM »
To this day, I can't figure out Facebook; it seems like a stupid waste of time.

Oh, you've figured out Facebook, all right.

LOL. Yep.

Jamesqf

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2014, 09:47:36 PM »
Lots of people are forced to use windows by the organizations they work for. I know from experience that he US Government and the State of Alaska are just two of those organizations. Like it or not I have to know how to use Word/Excel/Powerpoint etc.

Sure, if it's something you need to know for your job, you either learn it, or you find a more compatible job.

But it's still a minor irritation when acquaintances, who know I do 'computer stuff" without a real idea of exactly what it is, ask me to help with their Windows/IE/Word/Excel problems, and I have to admit that I don't have a clue.

GuitarStv

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2014, 06:33:04 AM »
Lots of people are forced to use windows by the organizations they work for. I know from experience that he US Government and the State of Alaska are just two of those organizations. Like it or not I have to know how to use Word/Excel/Powerpoint etc.

Sure, if it's something you need to know for your job, you either learn it, or you find a more compatible job.

But it's still a minor irritation when acquaintances, who know I do 'computer stuff" without a real idea of exactly what it is, ask me to help with their Windows/IE/Word/Excel problems, and I have to admit that I don't have a clue.

I know that you hate MS products and all . . . but considering the amount of overlap between typical word processors and spreadsheet programs I'm kinda surprised you aren't able to help them pretty quickly.

grantmeaname

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Re: Computer Literacy
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2014, 07:09:53 AM »
There's not much overlap if you only work in vi and only browse the web in Lynx.

And now the interfaces of Office and LibreOffice are pretty dramatically different. The fundamentals are the same, but if somebody says "I can't find this button" you may have to say "Me too!"