CDC new no mask policy seems like a giant FU

[Roland of Gilead]

Those of us patiently waiting for our slot in the vaccine phase are getting shafted by the CDC

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fully-vaccinated-people-gather-without-160147583.html


1)  People will start not wearing masks in public because "hey, I'm safe!".  This will remove some of the pressure to wear masks by non-vaccinated people who don't really believe COVID is that bad but were wearing masks because everyone else is.  Those of us waiting for our turn are then under extra risk when we do essential tasks like getting food or dealing with broken pipes, roof leaks, etc.

2)  Friends who are vaccinated will start to host get-togethers and this applies pressure to those who are waiting for their turn to get vaccinated, causing mental stress


A nice way to say thanks to those of us who have agreed to wait until early summer for the vaccine supply to be distributed to higher risk groups and people who lie about their risk.

[OtherJen]

Those of us patiently waiting for our slot in the vaccine phase are getting shafted by the CDC

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fully-vaccinated-people-gather-without-160147583.html


1)  People will start not wearing masks in public because "hey, I'm safe!".  This will remove some of the pressure to wear masks by non-vaccinated people who don't really believe COVID is that bad but were wearing masks because everyone else is.  Those of us waiting for our turn are then under extra risk when we do essential tasks like getting food or dealing with broken pipes, roof leaks, etc.

2)  Friends who are vaccinated will start to host get-togethers and this applies pressure to those who are waiting for their turn to get vaccinated, causing mental stress


A nice way to say thanks to those of us who have agreed to wait until early summer for the vaccine supply to be distributed to higher risk groups and people who lie about their risk.

As much as I recognize the importance of first responders/teachers/medical workers/the elderly getting first dibs at vaccination, the heavily depressed lizard part of my brain is a bit resentful after seeing all of their social media posts about restaurant meals, in-home get-togethers, travel, etc. I don't expect to be able to do those things for another 6 months, especially now that people are letting their guards down.

[dandarc]

Hopefully will nudge people towards getting vaccinated. Although the subset of pro-maskers who are vaccine-hesitant is probably small.

I might just wear a mask forever, though I imagine once everyone is not doing it anymore I'll need to be careful to change the sunglasses to regular when I go into stores and whatnot.

[GuitarStv]

Hmm.  Earlier I skimmed one of these articles that indicated they were approving vaccinated people visiting other vaccinated people.  That makes a lot of sense.  The guidance that anyone who is vaccinated can visit anyone who is unvaccinated who doesn't have an obvious risk factor seems a little more hand-wavy.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

The part I don't like is that a vaccinated person can be exposed to someone with covid and doesn't need to quarantine or get tested . . . especially given that there have now been many recorded instances of vaccinated people testing positive for carrying the covid-19 virus.  That seems a little odd.

[seattlecyclone]

They're not telling people it's okay to go around mask-free in public, they're saying once you're vaccinated it's okay to meet up in private with other people who are also vaccinated. That seems to fit very well with my understanding of the vaccine's effectiveness. People who can contract COVID after being vaccinated are rather rare, and those who do get it tend to get a mild form of the disease.

It's like when you get a vaccine you're rolling a 20-sided die, and you can't see the result right away. Roll a 2-20 and you're fully protected. Roll a 1 and you're only half protected. On the scale of a population, lots of people are going to roll a 1. It's great to keep up with the mask wearing and social distancing in public so that all the 1-rollers aren't spreading COVID to the unvaccinated folks. Every little bit helps.

In private? For something bad to happen you'd need to have rolled a 1 yourself, you'd need to be meeting with another 1-roller, and also one of you would have needed to be exposed to COVID recently. Especially in areas where the COVID prevalence is fairly low, this is extremely unlikely. Even if it does happen, all signs point to COVID being much less severe in vaccinated people. The combination of these factors seems to bring the risk down to a level that is probably not that far off from the likelihood of experiencing a car crash on the way to or from this meeting. This is a risk that we mostly accept as reasonable to take on a day-to-day basis.

The points you bring up about vaccine distribution being inequitable in many circumstances, and how it's a frustrating wait for those of us at the end of line are both valid. They also don't change the fact that private meetups among vaccinated people just aren't very risky. I appreciate that our government is issuing guidance that appears to fit the science.

[jehovasfitness23]

They're not telling people it's okay to go around mask-free in public, they're saying once you're vaccinated it's okay to meet up in private with other people who are also vaccinated. That seems to fit very well with my understanding of the vaccine's effectiveness. People who can contract COVID after being vaccinated are rather rare, and those who do get it tend to get a mild form of the disease.

agreed

[GuitarStv]

They're not telling people it's okay to go around mask-free in public, they're saying once you're vaccinated it's okay to meet up in private with other people who are also vaccinated. That seems to fit very well with my understanding of the vaccine's effectiveness. People who can contract COVID after being vaccinated are rather rare, and those who do get it tend to get a mild form of the disease.

Agreed with this.

It's like when you get a vaccine you're rolling a 20-sided die, and you can't see the result right away. Roll a 2-20 and you're fully protected. Roll a 1 and you're only half protected. On the scale of a population, lots of people are going to roll a 1. It's great to keep up with the mask wearing and social distancing in public so that all the 1-rollers aren't spreading COVID to the unvaccinated folks. Every little bit helps.

The CDC is also saying it's fine for vaccinated people to have unmasked visits with unvaccinated people.  No social distancing or mask wearing required.  They're also saying that if you are vaccinated and then exposed to someone you know had covid-19 there's no need to get tested or to quarantine if you don't show symptoms.

I'd be interested to see the science behind both of those recommendations.

[seattlecyclone]

It's like when you get a vaccine you're rolling a 20-sided die, and you can't see the result right away. Roll a 2-20 and you're fully protected. Roll a 1 and you're only half protected. On the scale of a population, lots of people are going to roll a 1. It's great to keep up with the mask wearing and social distancing in public so that all the 1-rollers aren't spreading COVID to the unvaccinated folks. Every little bit helps.

The CDC is also saying it's fine for vaccinated people to have unmasked visits with unvaccinated people.  No social distancing or mask wearing required.  They're also saying that if you are vaccinated and then exposed to someone you know had covid-19 there's no need to get tested or to quarantine if you don't show symptoms.

I'd be interested to see the science behind both of those recommendations.

Oh, yeah that bit seems iffier to me. Each individual interaction of this type will be a lot less risky than it was prior to vaccination, but on a population level it still could represent enough disease transmission to stop us from eradicating this thing anytime soon. Let's see some data.

[shuffler]

Those of us patiently waiting for our slot in the vaccine phase are getting shafted by the CDC

1)  People will start not wearing masks in public because "hey, I'm safe!".  This will remove some of the pressure to wear masks by non-vaccinated people who don't really believe COVID is that bad but were wearing masks because everyone else is.  Those of us waiting for our turn are then under extra risk when we do essential tasks like getting food or dealing with broken pipes, roof leaks, etc.

2)  Friends who are vaccinated will start to host get-togethers and this applies pressure to those who are waiting for their turn to get vaccinated, causing mental stress

I really don't get your CDC-angst.

The things you're complaining about both boil down to people not wearing masks in public (whether because they think COVID is no big deal, or because they want to hang out with their vaccinated friends).  But the CDC specifically recommends that everyone (vaccinated or not) should continue to wear masks in public.

It hardly seems right to blame the CDC for your fear that people won't follow their guidance.

And what would you prefer?  That the CDC recommend everyone keep wearing masks all the time, even when two vaccinated households are visiting one another?  Well, then you'd have the problem of people saying "why bother to get the vaccine if I still have to stay locked down?"  We have many reports of people saying that (prior to the CDC guidance) in the other thread(s).

I'm personally quite pleased that we have a CDC that is no longer muzzled by the Executive, and that is issuing what appears to be reasonably cautious and science-based guidance.

[Roland of Gilead]

It hardly seems right to blame the CDC for your fear that people won't follow their guidance.

And what would you prefer?  That the CDC recommend everyone keep wearing masks all the time, even when two vaccinated households are visiting one another?  Well, then you'd have the problem of people saying "why bother to get the vaccine if I still have to stay locked down?"  We have many reports of people saying that (prior to the CDC guidance) in the other thread(s).

I'm personally quite pleased that we have a CDC that is no longer muzzled by the Executive, and that is issuing what appears to be reasonably cautious and science-based guidance.

Yes, the CDC should recommend everyone keep distancing and wearing masks until the vaccine is readily available for all.   By stating that it is *OK* for certain people to meet but not other people is going to create problems.

So much for the "we are all in this together" BS I guess.

[seattlecyclone]

It hardly seems right to blame the CDC for your fear that people won't follow their guidance.

And what would you prefer?  That the CDC recommend everyone keep wearing masks all the time, even when two vaccinated households are visiting one another?  Well, then you'd have the problem of people saying "why bother to get the vaccine if I still have to stay locked down?"  We have many reports of people saying that (prior to the CDC guidance) in the other thread(s).

I'm personally quite pleased that we have a CDC that is no longer muzzled by the Executive, and that is issuing what appears to be reasonably cautious and science-based guidance.

Yes, the CDC should recommend everyone keep distancing and wearing masks until the vaccine is readily available for all.   By stating that it is *OK* for certain people to meet but not other people is going to create problems.

But...I mean...it literally is safe for vaccinated people to meet up. I don't agree that they should try to bury that fact under the rug until the vaccine is available to all, nor do I think it should be the CDC's job to encourage people to abstain from safe activities out of some sense of solidarity with people who haven't been vaccinated yet.

[Roland of Gilead]

But...I mean...it literally is safe for vaccinated people to meet up. I don't agree that they should try to bury that fact under the rug until the vaccine is available to all, nor do I think it should be the CDC's job to encourage people to abstain from safe activities out of some sense of solidarity with people who haven't been vaccinated yet.

I guess if this is how everyone else feels, then I should just take up smoking so I can get a vaccine appointment this week instead of having to wait until May.

One or two cigs shouldn't hurt me too bad and then I can get a "I was vaccinated" sticker and start having fun instead of being cooped up in the house.

[MoseyingAlong]

But...I mean...it literally is safe for vaccinated people to meet up. I don't agree that they should try to bury that fact under the rug until the vaccine is available to all, nor do I think it should be the CDC's job to encourage people to abstain from safe activities out of some sense of solidarity with people who haven't been vaccinated yet.

Why not?
We've spent the last year asking younger, healthy people to abstain from low risk activities for the sake of older and/or higher risk people. Now it's turnabout time. Those older and/or formerly-higher risk people who have been vaccinated first due to those conditions can continue to abstain from activities until the formerly-lower risk people are also vaccinated. No going "I got my vaccine so screw you."

And that is not even getting into the increased risks to physical and mental health that were caused by the rules to abstain from low risk activities. I'm not a parent but I do have serious concerns about life-long repercussions for young kids and what they've experienced in the last year.

[Roland of Gilead]

+1

Thanks Mosey, at least someone gets it.

[shuffler]

What I'm hearing is:
  *  In your opinions, the earlier lockdowns that encompassed younger people were unwarranted because either the young people were low-risk for infection/transmission, or because the cost of the lockdown (mental health) was higher than estimated.
  *  Because the earlier lockdowns were unwarranted (in your opinion), we should now restrict vaccinated people (who at this point are mainly older people) from unmasked social gatherings out of solidarity.

I could see an argument being made for the first point.  Maybe it could be supported by science.  However,  I wouldn't blame any policy-makers for implementing cautious/conservative policies in the early months of the rising pandemic.

I can't see a sensible argument for the second point.  I mean, if the mental health burden is so terrible, shouldn't we all want to relieve our (vaccinated) seniors of that suffering as soon as possible?  Why would we want to prolong their burden out of some sense of retribution or cosmic karma?  Given that practically none of these vaccinated seniors were personally responsible for lockdown policies, I can't see any moving argument for penalizing them due to past grievances over those policies, as real as those grievances may be.

Now it's turnabout time. ... No going "I got my vaccine so screw you."

Maybe you folks were harmed or frustrated by the lockdowns.  That is terrible.  But misery-loves-company and "turnabout time" isn't a convincing argument.

Also, neither the CDC nor vaccinated people are saying "screw you". 

I should just take up smoking so I can get a vaccine appointment this week instead of having to wait until May.
I can get a "I was vaccinated" sticker and start having fun instead of being cooped up in the house.

Oh.  So your complaint isn't about the CDC loosening restrictions on vaccinated people.
Your complaint is with the various vaccine prioritization schemes employed by states, because you currently don't quality.  Ok then.

I mean, if that's what you want to do, then go for it.  You can make that choice, and not even have to lie too much.
For me, I'm (relatively) young and healthy and capable of managing my exposure.  I don't mind putting off my vaccine so my parents and your (hypothetical) parents can get theirs first.

Either way, no point in punishing people who are vaccinated.

[seattlecyclone]

But...I mean...it literally is safe for vaccinated people to meet up. I don't agree that they should try to bury that fact under the rug until the vaccine is available to all, nor do I think it should be the CDC's job to encourage people to abstain from safe activities out of some sense of solidarity with people who haven't been vaccinated yet.

Why not?

Check the name. They're the "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention," not the "Centers for Obfuscating Scientific Findings in an Effort to Convince Old People and Essential Workers to Unnecessarily Distance Themselves from Others Until Everyone Else Is Vaccinated."

I very much want the people in our public health agencies to have the freedom to issue guidance based on the state of scientific knowledge as we know it. If our political leaders want to encourage continued social distancing out of solidarity, they're welcome to do so. Keep the scientists out of it.

[Tinker]

You may rest in peace armed with the knowledge that mandates for mask wearing have negligeble impact on COVID rates https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm

And so will the loosening of the same regulations.

[Paper Chaser]

If you want to go out, go out. If staying locked away waiting for the vaccine is too hard, or making you jealous of others who are out living their lives, then mask up and live your life. We're at a point where it's likely that well over 100 million Americans have been infected and have some immunity to this virus. Another 90 million have gotten at least 1 dose of vaccine, with 30 million fully vaccinated (starting with those most at-risk). I know that there's some overlap between the infected and vaccinated groups, but we're still talking about half the country probably having some level of immunity to this, with the other half being low risk for serious illness. The risk of going out in public is lower now than it has been in a year.

[GuitarStv]

Oh.  So your complaint isn't about the CDC loosening restrictions on vaccinated people.

My complaint is about the CDC loosening some restrictions that don't seem to make sense.

Allowing vaccinated people to group unmasked with vaccinated people is a sensible thing - no issues with that.

Encouraging vaccinated people to group unmasked with unvaccinated people seems a little odd though.  At first glance, this rule seems explicitly designed to let grandparents visit with children . . . and not to be based on what the science is currently telling us.  I get that a lot of the currently vaccinated are grandparents, but this is an odd one.

Telling vaccinated people that they don't need a covid test or to quarantine after hanging out with someone who has been tested positive for covid seems like a pretty bad idea.  The vaccine isn't 100% protection from the disease.  You can still get and test positive for the disease after being vaccinated.  The best evidence we have so far indicates that people who test positive for the disease can transmit it.  Especially when combined with the previous recommendation . . . this seems really strange - and possibly a bad idea.

[jrhampt]

Oh.  So your complaint isn't about the CDC loosening restrictions on vaccinated people.

My complaint is about the CDC loosening some restrictions that don't seem to make sense.

Allowing vaccinated people to group unmasked with vaccinated people is a sensible thing - no issues with that.

Encouraging vaccinated people to group unmasked with unvaccinated people seems a little odd though.  At first glance, this rule seems explicitly designed to let grandparents visit with children . . . and not to be based on what the science is currently telling us.  I get that a lot of the currently vaccinated are grandparents, but this is an odd one.

I understand that there are caveats to this.  For example, it says you can gather vaccinated people with unvaccinated people of ONE other household (at a time) IF no one is at high risk for COVID severe illness.  So that would mean vaccinated grandparents visiting their grandchildren of one household would be ok.  Vaccinated adult children or grandchildren hanging out with unvaccinated grandparents would not be ok because grandparents are high risk by virtue of their age.  Also, you wouldn't get vaccinated people hanging out with unvaccinated people from multiple households, because the unvaccinated people could transmit from household to unvaccinated household. 

Basically, these rules imply to me that they think transmission from vaccinated people is low.

[Roland of Gilead]

The CDC and peer pressure was one of the few things keeping most of the republican redneck COVID deniers sort of practicing safe interaction (half assed mask wearing with nose uncovered and not totally breathing down your neck in the grocery store as  you try to shop for food while social distancing).

If you remove that little bit of pressure, I am afraid (and am starting to actually see) that these unvaccinated people will abandon any pretense of safe interaction, thus putting those of unvaccinated of us who do believe COVID is a serious danger at more risk when we shop for food or have to visit the doctor or give blood (my wife has given blood 6 times in the past year, putting herself at risk to help others and yet still can't get the vaccine).

[Nick_Miller]

The CDC and peer pressure was one of the few things keeping most of the republican redneck COVID deniers sort of practicing safe interaction (half assed mask wearing with nose uncovered and not totally breathing down your neck in the grocery store as  you try to shop for food while social distancing).

If you remove that little bit of pressure, I am afraid (and am starting to actually see) that these unvaccinated people will abandon any pretense of safe interaction, thus putting those of unvaccinated of us who do believe COVID is a serious danger at more risk when we shop for food or have to visit the doctor or give blood (my wife has given blood 6 times in the past year, putting herself at risk to help others and yet still can't get the vaccine).

I sorta get your position about social pressure. And yes I 100% agree that vaccinated people should still wear masks in public places for at least for the next couple of months, even if it's only to show a united front and keep up the social pressure on others. I mean, it's the least they can do.

But of course they are going to get the benefits of not wearing masks or having to distance in private with other vaccinated folks. It's unreasonable to expect them to do those things when there appears to be no scientific reason to do so.

And honestly, I hate that some folks will just choose not to get vaccinated for political reasons. Even social pressure won't be enough to change their mind. But at least they aren't gumming up the vaccination queues for the rest of us.

[waltworks]

Look, this all just means the CDC is pretty confident that vaccinated people aren't likely to transmit the virus, but they're taking baby steps, which is probably smart.

It won't matter in another month anyway, when everyone who could conceivably be at meaningful risk is vaccinated (unless they refuse). We're already at that point here and our mask mandate will officially expire at the beginning of April.

I personally plan to wear a mask next flu season, but I sure as heck won't be wearing one (I'm fully vaccinated as are most of the people I know) otherwise once that mandate expires.

-W

[Roland of Gilead]

I sorta get your position about social pressure. And yes I 100% agree that vaccinated people should still wear masks in public places for at least for the next couple of months, even if it's only to show a united front and keep up the social pressure on others. I mean, it's the least they can do.

But of course they are going to get the benefits of not wearing masks or having to distance in private with other vaccinated folks. It's unreasonable to expect them to do those things when there appears to be no scientific reason to do so.

And honestly, I hate that some folks will just choose not to get vaccinated for political reasons. Even social pressure won't be enough to change their mind. But at least they aren't gumming up the vaccination queues for the rest of us.

I understand what you are saying that there appears to be no scientific reason for vaccinated people to distance in private with other vaccinated people but you have to realize people are easily swayed by peer pressure.  If they see 6 of their vaccinated friends getting together for a game night or party, they are going to want to attend even if they are not vaccinated.  The pressure is just too much for many people.   It doesn't matter that technically this violates the CDC policy, people never really follow instructions to the letter anyway.

As for the scientific community always following science and not social policy, we saw that was not true when they essentially lied about the protection level of various masks types so they could protect the supply for emergency workers.  If they went strictly by science they would have said right away that of course a N95 mask offers better protection than no mask or a simple cloth mask.

[OtherJen]

Look, this all just means the CDC is pretty confident that vaccinated people aren't likely to transmit the virus, but they're taking baby steps, which is probably smart.

It won't matter in another month anyway, when everyone who could conceivably be at meaningful risk is vaccinated (unless they refuse). We're already at that point here and our mask mandate will officially expire at the beginning of April.

I personally plan to wear a mask next flu season, but I sure as heck won't be wearing one (I'm fully vaccinated as are most of the people I know) otherwise once that mandate expires.

-W

Really? Here in Michigan, my friends and relatives who are younger than 50 and have high-risk health conditions but don’t work in a designated employment category are stuck waiting it out with the rest of us in the 16-49 year bracket. Current estimate is that we can start receiving our first doses sometime in August-September. That’s a lot of time to continue self-isolating while the vaccinated and anti-vaxxers go about their public unmasked lives.

Vaccinated people should absolutely feel free to congregate unmasked with other vaccinated people in private, but it would be nice if they would throw the rest of us a bone and keep their masks on in public a bit longer so we aren’t placed at increased risk when we can’t avoid being in public (e.g., my husband’s workplace every weekday, the grocery store, or the doctor’s office).

[waltworks]

Really? Here in Michigan, my friends and relatives who are younger than 50 and have high-risk health conditions but don’t work in a designated employment category are stuck waiting it out with the rest of us in the 16-49 year bracket. Current estimate is that we can start receiving our first doses sometime in August-September. That’s a lot of time to continue self-isolating while the vaccinated and anti-vaxxers go about their public unmasked lives.

I'm sorry, that sucks. My county is at 35% of the population fully vaccinated last I checked, which was a few days ago. The percentage rises ~2% per day right now but I imagine that will pick up a bit more soon. All of our at-risk, seniors, teachers, etc have been vaccinated for a while. Anyone 40 years or older can easily get an appointment right now and the health dept. estimates they will end all restrictions on making appointments in about a week.

So I guess it varies depending on where you are, but in my case, people are at basically no risk if I don't wear a mask in the grocery store. We're giving it another month to be super sure, of course, but really, it's over.

-W

[shuffler]

I understand what you are saying that there appears to be no scientific reason for vaccinated people to distance in private with other vaccinated people but you have to realize people are easily swayed by peer pressure.

What do you think better policy/guidance would be?

If the answer is "everyone should continue to social distance as before", how do you square that with the earlier assertions that the mental/physical health effects are significant?  And against economic-suffering arguments?  At what point should social distancing be relaxed?

[cchrissyy]

Really? Here in Michigan, my friends and relatives who are younger than 50 and have high-risk health conditions but don’t work in a designated employment category are stuck waiting it out with the rest of us in the 16-49 year bracket. Current estimate is that we can start receiving our first doses sometime in August-September. That’s a lot of time to continue self-isolating while the vaccinated and anti-vaxxers go about their public unmasked lives.

that stinks but it should get a lot better, supply is ramping up nicely, see this from last week's news


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/02/us/politics/merck-johnson-johnson-vaccine.html

WASHINGTON — President Biden said on Tuesday that the United States was “on track” to have enough supply of coronavirus vaccines “for every adult in America by the end of May,” accelerating his effort to deliver the nation from the worst public health crisis in a century.

[OtherJen]

I understand what you are saying that there appears to be no scientific reason for vaccinated people to distance in private with other vaccinated people but you have to realize people are easily swayed by peer pressure.

What do you think better policy/guidance would be?

If the answer is "everyone should continue to social distance as before", how do you square that with the earlier assertions that the mental/physical health effects are significant?  And against economic-suffering arguments?  At what point should social distancing be relaxed?

I don't see why it's such a problem to expect people to continue masking in public until we hit a nationwide herd immunity-level of vaccination. That seems a lot more fair to ALL of us. It would allow people to do what they want on private property, and masking in public would cut down the risk of transmission to those of us who are still waiting to be vaxxed and are avoiding indoor social gatherings until then but would like to continue our weekly grocery store visits at the current level of risk.

Of course, if there's anything that the last 12 months has taught me, it's that an enormous subset of Americans are breathtakingly selfish and self-absorbed, so such a request is unlikely to be met with anything but derision by a significant proportion of the population.

[Nick_Miller]

I really do think we'll get all adults vaccinated by Memorial Day. The vaccination numbers keep ticking up and up (5.3M doses this weekend alone!), and hopefully the state-to-state differences in supply are ironed out soon. I'm so nerdy I even started a google sheet to track progress weekly.

The 100M J&J vaccinations = 100M vaccinated adults and that should get us there. Jen, I hope you get yours MUCH sooner than friggin' August.

[jehovasfitness23]

I really do think we'll get all adults vaccinated by Memorial Day. The vaccination numbers keep ticking up and up (5.3M doses this weekend alone!), and hopefully the state-to-state differences in supply are ironed out soon. I'm so nerdy I even started a google sheet to track progress weekly.

The 100M J&J vaccinations = 100M vaccinated adults and that should get us there. Jen, I hope you get yours MUCH sooner than friggin' August.

Doses does not equal shots in arms. I'd expect late June or some time in July.

After a solid 2 months we are at 10% fully vaccinated. Assume we kick that up to 15% here on out per month. That's still another 4-4.5 months.

[maizefolk]

As for the scientific community always following science and not social policy, we saw that was not true when they essentially lied about the protection level of various masks types so they could protect the supply for emergency workers.  If they went strictly by science they would have said right away that of course a N95 mask offers better protection than no mask or a simple cloth mask.

Yes. This happened. It was incredibly damaging to the credibility of the CDC and the reporters and officials who reported it with a straight face. It will likely take a decade or more for it to earn back the credibility it (and countless reporters and public health officials) threw away during the period they are arguing masks magically worked for people with a job in public healthcare but did not work for anyone else. Anyone who looked at that guidance could see how nonsensical it was.

Why should we burn even more credibility in our damaged public health infrastructure pushing yet another claim that would be easily perceived as nonsensical: that people who are vaccinated against the coronavirus need to take all the same precautions as those who are not?

I say this as someone who is unvaccinated, has no particular hope of getting vaccinated in the near future, and is two weeks out from hitting a whole year following CDC guidance, working from home, and living entirely alone. I passed the "talking to plants" stage months ago.

[PDXTabs]

CDC new no mask policy seems like a giant FU

Why, precisely? I don't follow.

[dandarc]

CDC new no mask policy seems like a giant FU

Why, precisely? I don't follow.

I honestly this is more a reaction to the Yahoo article specifically, and maybe even mainly reacting to the headline. The CDC guidance itself linked somewhere upthread is fairly reasonable and clearly states "keep wearing masks in public".

[Roland of Gilead]

Why should we burn even more credibility in our damaged public health infrastructure pushing yet another claim that would be easily perceived as nonsensical: that people who are vaccinated against the coronavirus need to take all the same precautions as those who are not?

Answer: they shouldn't burn credibility by pushing a false claim.   They should have issued guidance that says until we reach herd immunity, people should keep up the practice of social distancing, mask wearing, and avoid public and private gatherings.  This would not have been lying either as there is solid social science that people will tend to do what the herd does.  If the herd as a whole keeps up the practices of the past year for a few more months, even if some of the lucky few in the herd are doing it technically unnecessarily, then there will still be the peer pressure on fence sitters to obey the safety practices that have kept us somewhat protected.   Politicians are also swayed by the herd and can come under pressure to open things up too soon if vaccinated people start clambering for going out to dinner or bars, or events.

[OtherJen]

Why should we burn even more credibility in our damaged public health infrastructure pushing yet another claim that would be easily perceived as nonsensical: that people who are vaccinated against the coronavirus need to take all the same precautions as those who are not?

Answer: they shouldn't burn credibility by pushing a false claim.   They should have issued guidance that says until we reach herd immunity, people should keep up the practice of social distancing, mask wearing, and avoid public and private gatherings.  This would not have been lying either as there is solid social science that people will tend to do what the herd does.  If the herd as a whole keeps up the practices of the past year for a few more months, even if some of the lucky few in the herd are doing it technically unnecessarily, then there will still be the peer pressure on fence sitters to obey the safety practices that have kept us somewhat protected.   Politicians are also swayed by the herd and can come under pressure to open things up too soon if vaccinated people start clambering for going out to dinner or bars, or events.

And let’s not forget that many restaurant workers aren’t currently eligible to be vaccinated and may not be for months.

[maizefolk]

Why should we burn even more credibility in our damaged public health infrastructure pushing yet another claim that would be easily perceived as nonsensical: that people who are vaccinated against the coronavirus need to take all the same precautions as those who are not?

Answer: they shouldn't burn credibility by pushing a false claim.   They should have issued guidance that says until we reach herd immunity, people should keep up the practice of social distancing, mask wearing, and avoid public and private gatherings.  This would not have been lying either as there is solid social science that people will tend to do what the herd does.  If the herd as a whole keeps up the practices of the past year for a few more months, even if some of the lucky few in the herd are doing it technically unnecessarily, then there will still be the peer pressure on fence sitters to obey the safety practices that have kept us somewhat protected.   Politicians are also swayed by the herd and can come under pressure to open things up too soon if vaccinated people start clambering for going out to dinner or bars, or events.

So you mean something like: "Yes, being vaccinated does make it safer to interact with other people, but we ask that you please refrain from doing so anyway to enhance peer pressure on those who are no yet vaccinated."?

I agree, that would not be lying about the science and wouldn't damage the CDC's credibility the way the masks work for people with some jobs but not others guidance did. I also don't think this new type of guidance you describe would work at getting vaccinated people from refraining from congregating but that's a different issue.

[charis]

I'm perfectly happy if vaccinated people get together privately, it gives me something to look forward to and I'm not going to begrudge any essential workers, or literally anyone else, even smokers, their vaccine. The more shots in arms, the less risk to me and my children. So I'm really struggling to understand the issue here (apart from the idea that people will stop wearing masks in public).

My parents have been miserable for a year, so good for them that they were vaccinated a while ago. I'm healthy and my children are obviously low risk, so we've already started normally socializing with them, though still infrequently.

[SimpleCycle]

The CDC is saying that a small gathering of people with mixed vaccine status should be guided by the risk level of the unvaccinated people.  So if everyone is vaccinated or at low risk of severe COVID, then the CDC guidance says it’s okay.  That makes sense to me, as severe COVID is the real risk.

I think it’s hard to see life resuming for the vaccinated while you wait for a vaccine, but that’s not a reason to hold back evidence based guidance.  We’re going to have mixed vaccine statutes for a long time, especially since we seem a ways out from vaccines for children.  Better to guide people in making decisions.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

I hate the notion of telling vaccinated people to put on a faux show in public for the sake of community cohesion. That seems wrong to me in so many ways.

[OtherJen]

I hate the notion of telling vaccinated people to put on a faux show in public for the sake of community cohesion. That seems wrong to me in so many ways.

Fortunately for you, you don't live here and don't have to navigate public spaces with unmasked people, without knowing their vaccination status, for months until you can get your own dose. I am fortunate enough to hole up at home (although the level of depression from the isolation is taking a big toll after a full year). Retail and restaurant workers not covered in a priority group don't have that privilege.

It's still about public health.

[charis]

I hate the notion of telling vaccinated people to put on a faux show in public for the sake of community cohesion. That seems wrong to me in so many ways.

Fortunately for you, you don't live here and don't have to navigate public spaces with unmasked people, without knowing their vaccination status, for months until you can get your own dose. I am fortunate enough to hole up at home (although the level of depression from the isolation is taking a big toll after a full year). Retail and restaurant workers not covered in a priority group don't have that privilege.

It's still about public health.

One issue is that each state has their own priority groups. For instance, all front-facing workers in retail and restaurants have been in a priority group eligible for vaccination since mid February in my state.

[Paper Chaser]

I hate the notion of telling vaccinated people to put on a faux show in public for the sake of community cohesion. That seems wrong to me in so many ways.

Fortunately for you, you don't live here and don't have to navigate public spaces with unmasked people, without knowing their vaccination status, for months until you can get your own dose. I am fortunate enough to hole up at home (although the level of depression from the isolation is taking a big toll after a full year). Retail and restaurant workers not covered in a priority group don't have that privilege.

It's still about public health.

Is the risk to restaurant workers actually increasing, and if so, by how much? Throughout the pandemic these people have been working in environments where customers have been allowed to spend the majority of their time unmasked. The fact that about half the country probably has some level of immunity to this virus now (with 10% fully vaccinated), might mean they're at lower risk now than they were in November of last year, even if the random unvaccinated jerk thinks they don't need to wear a mask at all.

[OtherJen]

I hate the notion of telling vaccinated people to put on a faux show in public for the sake of community cohesion. That seems wrong to me in so many ways.

Fortunately for you, you don't live here and don't have to navigate public spaces with unmasked people, without knowing their vaccination status, for months until you can get your own dose. I am fortunate enough to hole up at home (although the level of depression from the isolation is taking a big toll after a full year). Retail and restaurant workers not covered in a priority group don't have that privilege.

It's still about public health.

Is the risk to restaurant workers actually increasing, and if so, by how much? Throughout the pandemic these people have been working in environments where customers have been allowed to spend the majority of their time unmasked. The fact that about half the country probably has some level of immunity to this virus now (with 10% fully vaccinated), might mean they're at lower risk now than they were in November of last year, even if the random unvaccinated jerk thinks they don't need to wear a mask at all.

I honestly don't know. My concern is that people will start getting careless because the end is in sight. It's still too soon to be careless.

[dandarc]

Really sums up the reason this has dragged out so long @OtherJen - "too soon to be careless"

[dougules]

Is the risk to restaurant workers actually increasing, and if so, by how much? Throughout the pandemic these people have been working in environments where customers have been allowed to spend the majority of their time unmasked. The fact that about half the country probably has some level of immunity to this virus now (with 10% fully vaccinated), might mean they're at lower risk now than they were in November of last year, even if the random unvaccinated jerk thinks they don't need to wear a mask at all.

I honestly don't know. My concern is that people will start getting careless because the end is in sight. It's still too soon to be careless.

I think people already are getting more careless.  It's disappointing this close to the finish line. 

[waltworks]

People were careless the whole time. It'll be interesting to see if TX sees a spike in cases now that they've opened everything up.

I personally am guessing they won't, just because so many people are exposed or vaccinated at this point.

-W

[fuzzy math]

Roland there are plenty of healthy 30 - 40 somethings getting their shots at Safeway and other places in WA. If you believe you are being meant to wait, you should look again.

[bigblock440]

I hate the notion of telling vaccinated people to put on a faux show in public for the sake of community cohesion. That seems wrong to me in so many ways.

No different than telling all of the low-risk and recovered to put on a faux show in public like we've been for the past year.

[jehovasfitness23]

I hate the notion of telling vaccinated people to put on a faux show in public for the sake of community cohesion. That seems wrong to me in so many ways.

No different than telling all of the low-risk and recovered to put on a faux show in public like we've been for the past year.

what show? that "faux-show" helped save high-risk lives