Candidate tax returns: who cares?

[seattlecyclone]

Let me preface this post by saying that I will not be voting for Donald Trump. I think he's not remotely qualified for our highest office beyond the basic age and citizenship requirements outlined in the Constitution, and he's a racist anti-Muslim bigot besides.

Now that that's out of the way, can someone explain why his tax returns are supposed to be at all relevant? That's private information. I don't release my tax returns to the world, nor does my boss or my neighbor. Why should I expect politicians to do it? I trust that if someone is cheating on their taxes in a significant way, the IRS will catch on sooner rather than later (especially for higher-earning folks) and force the person to pay what they owe plus any required interest or penalties.

Given the assumption that someone won't get away with underpaying for long, what does it matter how much Trump or any other political candidate pays in tax? If you think he should owe more than the law says he does, that's not a personal failing on his part, it's a failure of our tax code to assess a fair amount of tax for someone in his position.

I know I try not to pay a penny more than the law says I owe; why should I think less of a political candidate for doing the same?

[nobodyspecial]

With politicians it generally isn't how much tax they are paying but where the money is coming from.

[msilenus]

In Trump's case, one can admit all of seattlecyclone's points uncontested and still make a strong case about hypocrisy.  He has complained about other people not paying taxes:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/172772609627394049

[marty998]

With politicians it generally isn't how much tax they are paying but where the money is coming from.

I agree with this sentiment.

I also think there's questions to be asked of anyone who uses offshore "structures" to minimise tax, however legal they may be.

If you are running for office, I would like your policy platform to include measures to shut down those structures. If you are someone that uses them, chances are you will not be inclined to overhaul the tax laws to remove them.

[Tom Bri]

As long as his deductions are legal, no problem. Hill too, for that matter.
I agree that Trump is not really qualified to be president, but I don't see where you get him being a racist from. His comment that some Mexicans are rapists? Some are. Or his wanting to cut immigration sharply, especially from countries where most people have very different cultures and values? I have no problem with that either.

[deadlymonkey]

Yeah it really only matters to see what possible foreign or shady sources of income you have. 

For Trump specifically everyone wanted to see how much debt he had to the Russians.  These tax returns predate any russian influence so that isn't in there.  What it does show....

Not too many "World's greatest businessmen" take 900 million personal losses in a year.  He LEGALLY avoided paying taxes, which is fine.  A lot of the lower/middle class people he wants to woo will feel differently because they don't really have access to avoid paying taxes like he does.  There is also the hypocrisy of complaining about welfare freeloaders who don't pay their fair share of taxes while also taking advantage of loopholes to avoid paying his own.

IF he released his taxes, explained the loopholes he used and then vowed to close them so that other rich folks couldn't exploit the tax code, he would gain a lot of support....but he won't do something like that because it would impact his own fortune and grifters gotta grift.

[thd7t]

While tax returns are a very specific form of financial disclosure, their chief value is their uniformity. It's important to have a baseline method to determine whether candidates are beholden to any foreign or financially controlling entities. As legal documents, tax returns give insight into these questions with less ambiguity and spin than the voluntary forms released by candidates. In addition, they give the public a clearer idea of the business interests of the candidates and can reveal when they are doing something self serving.

[ender]

Yeah it really only matters to see what possible foreign or shady sources of income you have. 

This is really the only reason I care. And I barely care, at all.

[deadlymonkey]

Yeah it really only matters to see what possible foreign or shady sources of income you have. 

This is really the only reason I care. And I barely care, at all.

Unless your campaign is almost entirely based on the fact that you are a great business man, and your taxes reflect the narrative that you are actually a bad businessman capable of turning a large fortune into a small one.

[TheOldestYoungMan]

Yeah it really only matters to see what possible foreign or shady sources of income you have. 

This is really the only reason I care. And I barely care, at all.

Unless your campaign is almost entirely based on the fact that you are a great business man, and your taxes reflect the narrative that you are actually a bad businessman capable of turning a large fortune into a small one.

That right there is conspiracy-theory-crazy thing usually reserved for the right wing.  If you've got evidence that he's a bad businessman (and you do) then you just trot that out directly.  Repeatedly bringing up a free man exercising his free right to do a thing he's legally entitled to do as an example of someone doing something bad is helping Trump, not hurting him.

We want to see the returns to make sure he's not bought and paid for.  In the case of Trump, its not likely to hurt him much just because we know he went to the people who usually own right wing candidates and they turned him down.

I think he's crazy to not release them from a "trying to win" perspective, but as I never really thought he was trying to win I think it's the right move from a "running a business" perspective.  With as many different things as he's got his hands into, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he did accidentally break a few laws even if he was making an honest good-faith effort to comply with all the laws (which, you know, he probably wasn't).  That'd be more an indictment of the needlessly complex tax code than of him, but he'd be crucified for it nonetheless.

Nominate a better candidate next time dems, and you won't have to worry about resorting to 1040gate to beat a hopelessly unqualified gasbag.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/campaign-finance/

I remember the media making a huge deal out of the GOP buying Bush Jr. term 1 and 2 and how that was proof of how evil money is.  HRC, according to WaPo, has outraised by 2:1 Trump, and is just slightly ahead in polls (though killing it in the states that really matter)?  Imagine if the democratic nominee had been an actual person...

Trump was a gift to the left wing from on high and they've wasted it on HRC.

[Cathy]

In Trump's case, one can admit all of seattlecyclone's points uncontested and still make a strong case about hypocrisy.  He has complained about other people not paying taxes:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/172772609627394049

I express no view on Donald Trump, but that tweet doesn't appear to be a "complain[t]". It's just an assertion of fact and a link to a news article. The headline of the news article contains the same assertion of fact as the tweet. The tweet does not suggest that there is any problem with the assertion of fact, nor does it suggest that any course of action be taken to change it.

Also, some people who don't pay tax actually do owe tax and are simply engaging in fraud (including some forum members here), so even if Trump has a problem with people who don't pay tax (which, again, nothing in the tweet suggests), it may be that his complaint is limited to people who are fraudulently evading tax. I see no hypocrisy between that tweet and Trump's declining to release has tax returns.

Trump's argument for why he is not releasing his returns (that he is being audited) actually makes sense, because if the returns are released, a lot of people will analyse them. Those analyses may lead to people coming up with arguments that the IRS had not considered, and the IRS will then be able to use those arguments to its advantage in its dealings with Trump. Note that I am not saying that Trump's argument should carry the day, and there may be other factors why he should release his returns notwithstanding his concerns. The only point I am making is that the reason he has articulated for why he is not releasing his returns is not as illogical as popular news media commentators seem to suggest.

Again, I express no view on Trump or any other candidate or on the merits of any of their past or present positions.

[Northwestie]

There is no direct evidence that Trump is being audited.  The IRS neither confirms or denies such claims.  The IRS, however, has said there is no reason why a person being audited cannot publicly release their  tax returns. 

The huge give-aways of the real estate industry aside, it would be interesting to see how he is leveraged against foreign banks - particularly China.  He is certainly acting like he has something to hide.

[Cathy]

There is no direct evidence that Trump is being audited.  The IRS neither confirms or denies such claims.

This is not surprising because the disclosure of information by the IRS is heavily regulated and restricted by statutory law and administrative practice. See, e.g., 26 USC § 6103. Even if the IRS were legally entitled to comment on his returns (something which I have not analysed), it would still be rational for it to take the conservative path and not do so, in light of the legal and administrative risks that it and its employees may face for doing so.

Also, even if Trump were not being audited at present, his stated concern would still be apposite, because as a wealthy businessperson he undoubtedly has a reasonable chance of being audited in the future, at which point the issue that I described above would come into play.

The IRS, however, has said there is no reason why a person being audited cannot publicly release their  tax returns.

Of course a person in the public spotlight can release their returns while being audited, but as I explained in the immediately preceding post, it is not in their interest to do so. Obviously the IRS doesn't mind if somebody voluntarily wants to make the IRS's job easier for them. However, Trump's reticence about doing so is not illogical. Again, I am not saying that this concern should outweigh the public interest in his returns (as mentioned, I express no view on that).

[Midwest]

There is no direct evidence that Trump is being audited.  The IRS neither confirms or denies such claims.  The IRS, however, has said there is no reason why a person being audited cannot publicly release their  tax returns. 

The huge give-aways of the real estate industry aside, it would be interesting to see how he is leveraged against foreign banks - particularly China.  He is certainly acting like he has something to hide.

Releasing his personal returns would tell us very little about who he owes.  As you know, personal returns don't include a balance sheet.  In addition, I suspect the majority of his investments are held in corporations or LLC's so the information on his personal return would provide very little information on the make up of those investments.

I haven't read it, but the financial disclosure he did file gives some information on assets and liabilities.

I suspect he doesn't make as much money as he brags.  In addition, haters would attempt to pick apart a complex return such as his and could increase his IRS exposure.

[Northwestie]

There is no direct evidence that Trump is being audited.  The IRS neither confirms or denies such claims.

This is not surprising because the disclosure of information by the IRS is heavily regulated and restricted by statutory law and administrative practice. See, e.g., 26 USC § 6103. Even if the IRS were legally entitled to comment on his returns (something which I have not analysed), it would still be rational for it to take the conservative path and not do so, in light of the legal and administrative risks that it and its employees may face for doing so.

Also, even if Trump were not being audited at present, his stated concern would still be apposite, because as a wealthy businessperson he undoubtedly has a reasonable chance of being audited in the future, at which point the issue that I described above would come into play.

The IRS, however, has said there is no reason why a person being audited cannot publicly release their  tax returns.

Of course a person in the public spotlight can release their returns while being audited, but as I explained in the immediately preceding post, it is not in their interest to do so. Obviously the IRS doesn't mind if somebody voluntarily wants to make the IRS's job easier for them. However, Trump's reticence about doing so is not illogical. Again, I am not saying that this concern should outweigh the public interest in his returns (as mentioned, I express no view on that).

Like I said - rebuffing a long-standing tradition shows he has something to hide - no tax payments for an extended period, zero charitable contributions, and likely an order of magnitude less rich than he claims.  Who knows.  Not a class act all around.

[HPstache]

He will release his taxes when Hillary releases the 30,000+ e-mails she destroyed.

[bacchi]

He will release his taxes when Hillary releases the 30,000+ e-mails she destroyed.

Has he stated that quid pro quo?

[Mr Dorothy Dollar]

As long as his deductions are legal, no problem. Hill too, for that matter.
I agree that Trump is not really qualified to be president, but I don't see where you get him being a racist from. His comment that some Mexicans are rapists? Some are. Or his wanting to cut immigration sharply, especially from countries where most people have very different cultures and values? I have no problem with that either.

If you do not get the racist part yet you may never, but I will try to walk you through it.

Logic step one: Look up the definition for racist.  Here from Google: a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Logic step two: look up the actual text in question from a primary source. Here is the primary transcript of his announcement. http://time.com/3923128/donald-trump-announcement-speech/
Here is the actual quote of text to be analyzed.  "The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

Logic step three: Combine the definition, text, and implicit comparisons and see if it is an example of the definition.

a person (Trump)  who believes (he stated it, so it is assumed he believes what he says) that a particular race (Here Mexicans in America. Mexicans is a race because it refers to a latino from a geographic location) is superior (He only assumes some are good people. Some is less than half and certainly less than what he believes his race has) to another (It is implicit that there is a comparison to whites when a white person makes the statements as to quality of a population of a differing race).

Aside to understanding implicit comparisons: When someone says "big apple" is there a comparison? Yes, the comparison is to what is normal in from that person's point of view. Here saying some people of Mexican origin are good people means compared to what the speaker thinks the population for good people is (Normally you would have to figure out the amount of good people in the normal distribution in the view of the speaker, surely more than some. Here, he is running for president and has touted that Americans are the greatest people, significantly more than some) compared to what the population for good people of Mexican origin some (not many) are good people.

Logic step four: evaluate if the definition, speech text, and implicit support the claim.

You could also run this definition through what he states about black communities or Arabs.

[Northwestie]

He will release his taxes when Hillary releases the 30,000+ e-mails she destroyed.

LOL.  This is like a headline from The Onion.   I can't wait for this circus act of his to be over.  Here's to a big bowl of popcorn on election night and a good IPA, though I'm sure it will be a short evening.

[acroy]

The tax return scandals (of both candidates) are indicative of a terrible terrible tax code. Nothing else.

[Proud Foot]

I saw this article over the weekend and many people on social media criticizing Trump for using this to not pay any taxes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html

I don't quite understand the outrage at Trump for using legal (tax code) means of not paying taxes. To me this highlights some of the issues with the tax code where wealthy individuals are able to use business losses to keep from having to pay income taxes for multiple years.  No middle-class individual could sustain a $900 million business loss in a single year.  While I do not fault him for taking advantage of the code to pay no taxes, I do question the ethics/legality of creating that large of a loss in a single year.

[GuitarStv]

As long as his deductions are legal, no problem. Hill too, for that matter.
I agree that Trump is not really qualified to be president, but I don't see where you get him being a racist from. His comment that some Mexicans are rapists? Some are. Or his wanting to cut immigration sharply, especially from countries where most people have very different cultures and values? I have no problem with that either.

If you do not get the racist part yet you may never, but I will try to walk you through it.

Logic step one: Look up the definition for racist.  Here from Google: a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Logic step two: look up the actual text in question from a primary source. Here is the primary transcript of his announcement. http://time.com/3923128/donald-trump-announcement-speech/
Here is the actual quote of text to be analyzed.  "The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

Logic step three: Combine the definition, text, and implicit comparisons and see if it is an example of the definition.

a person (Trump)  who believes (he stated it, so it is assumed he believes what he says) that a particular race (Here Mexicans in America. Mexicans is a race because it refers to a latino from a geographic location) is superior (He only assumes some are good people. Some is less than half and certainly less than what he believes his race has) to another (It is implicit that there is a comparison to whites when a white person makes the statements as to quality of a population of a differing race).

Aside to understanding implicit comparisons: When someone says "big apple" is there a comparison? Yes, the comparison is to what is normal in from that person's point of view. Here saying some people of Mexican origin are good people means compared to what the speaker thinks the population for good people is (Normally you would have to figure out the amount of good people in the normal distribution in the view of the speaker, surely more than some. Here, he is running for president and has touted that Americans are the greatest people, significantly more than some) compared to what the population for good people of Mexican origin some (not many) are good people.

Logic step four: evaluate if the definition, speech text, and implicit support the claim.

You could also run this definition through what he states about black communities or Arabs.

Were it examined in a vacuum it may be possible to argue that the Mexican rapist comment wasn't racist.  There is quite a lot of evidence of racism and bigotry surrounding Trump though.  Certainly you shouldn't convict a man on circumstance, but at the same time . . . where there's enough smoke it's foolish to pretend that there's no fire.



Donald Trump violated the civil rights act by refusing to rent homes to black people.

    http://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/07/30/1973-meet-donald-trump/
    http://new.www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/29/donald-trump-blacks-lawsuit_n_855553.html
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/15/doj-trump-s-early-businesses-blocked-blacks.html
    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/09/07/the-death-and-life-of-atlantic-city

Trump continued to refuse to rent homes to black people three years after Justice Department ruling on the matter sides against Trump.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1978/03/07/archives/trump-charged-with-rental-bias.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/1983/10/16/realestate/for-starrett-city-an-integration-test.html?scp=4&sq=trump+discrimination&st=nyt&pagewanted=all

Trump ordered blacks to leave casino floor whenever him or wife arrives on property.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/09/07/the-death-and-life-of-atlantic-city

1991 book written by Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino President quotes Trump as saying:

“I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day… . I think the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.“

    http://articles.philly.com/1991-05-10/news/25795529_1_trump-associates-trump-s-atlantic-city-donald-trump

Trump built a casino in black majority city and breaks promise to mayor about hiring locals, refrains to hire the minorities and opting to staff the casino with almost exclusively all Caucasian employees.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/money/trump-hit-race-suit-blacks-don-dealt-casino-jobs-article-1.726389

Trump was asked about replacing TSA's 'heebeejabis' with veterans, responded with:

"We're looking at it"

    http://www.npr.org/2016/06/30/484229621/woman-asks-trump-about-replacing-tsas-heebejabis-with-veterans
    http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-response-anti-muslim-tsa-worker-question-veterans-2016-7
    http://time.com/4039658/trump-obama-muslim/

Trump responded to accusations of racism by hiring a former aid for Joseph McCarthy to sue the government for half a billion dollars.

    http://www.salon.com/2011/04/28/donald_trump_discrimination_suit/

Trump kept books of Hitler Speeches by his bed.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8
    http://forward.com/the-assimilator/318664/trump-and-hitler/
    http://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-hitler-speeches-book

Trump's campaign photoshopped a white model black.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trumps-people-almost-definitely-photoshopped-a-white-model-to-make-her-black_us_56d872d5e4b03a405677a680
    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/donald-trump-photoshopped-models-to-be-african-american-in-his-online-store/

Trump refused to disavow support from the Klu Klux Klan multiple times during interview only to change his mind later on twitter.

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/3739/disgusting-trump-reverses-himself-refuses-disavow-ben-shapiro
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kkk-cnn-tapper-154053871.html
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/28/468455028/trump-wont-condemn-kkk-says-he-knows-nothing-about-white-supremacists
    http://time.com/4240268/donald-trump-kkk-david-duke/
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/david-duke-trump-219777

The KKK endorses Trump.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/a-lot-of-what-he-believes-we-believe-kkk-grand-imperial-wizard-endorses-trump/
    http://www.snopes.com/2016/05/02/klan-leader-endorses-trump/
    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/04/30/3774243/ku-klux-klan-imperial-wizard-endorses-donald-trump-for-president/

Trump retweets message from Pro-Hitler, white genocide conspiracy Twitter account.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-whitegenocidetm-retweet
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/430201/donald-trump-retweets-white-genocide-twitter-user
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-retweets-white-genocide-account-based-in-jewmerica/
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/donald-trump-retweets-neo-nazi-sympathizer-article-1.2506735

Analysis shows that 62% of the people Trump retweeted on the week of January 19th 2016 were white supremacist accounts.

    http://www.getlittlebird.com/blog/data-62-of-the-people-donald-trump-rted-this-week-follow-multiple-white-supremacist-accounts

Trump picks famed white supremacist leader as delegate.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/donald-trump-white-nationalist-afp-delegate-california

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/45928_Donald_Trump_Picks_Well-Known_White_Nationalist_Leader_as_a_Delegate_in_California

    http://www.nationalmemo.com/trump-picks-white-nationalist-leader-as-delegate/

Trump's son gives interview with Holocaust denying radio show host who wants to bring back slavery.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Cesspool#Donald_Trump_Jr._interview

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/donald-trump-son-pro-slavery-host-interview-220120?lo=ap_c1

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/271501-trump-grants-press-credentials-to-pro-white-radio-show

Trump's "my African-American" isn't even a Trump supporter.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/05/480864303/trumps-african-american-i-am-not-a-trump-supporter

Trump gives press credentials to white supremacist radio host.

    http://www.nationalmemo.com/donald-trump-gives-interview-pres-credentials-to-white-supremacist/

Trump discriminated against Native-Americans as well.

    http://www.courant.com/business/dan-haar/hc-haar-donald-trump-connecticut-indians-weicker-20150810-column.html

Six former contestants of The Apprentice blast Trump as a racist and sexist.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/former-apprentice-contestants-denounce-donald-trump-s-candidacy-n556306

Trumps father was arrested for attacking police officers at KKK rally.

    http://boingboing.net/2015/09/09/1927-news-report-donald-trump.html
    http://addictinginfo.org/2015/09/09/donald-trumps-dad-was-arrested-during-kkk-rally-that-attacked-two-police-officers/
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/fred-trump-arrest-1927-kkk

Public Policy Polling polls Trump supporters and discovers:

    60% Support banning Muslims from entering the United States

    50% Support the Confederate flag hanging on the capital grounds

    30% Support shutting down all mosques in the United States

    30% Wish the South won the civil war

    25% Islam should be illegal in the United States

    25% Support the policy of Japanese Internment

    20% Support banning homosexuals from entering the United States

    10% Say Whites are a superior race

    (11% aren’t sure one way or another)

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_SC_21616.pdf

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/one_out_of_three_trump_voters_in_sc_would_ban_gays_from_entering_the_u_s

    http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/02/guess-how-many-donald-trump-supporters-want-gay-people-barred-from-entering-america/

Trump refuses to condemn violence against muslims and African-Americans committed by his supporters.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-idUSKCN0WM0RJ
    http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/trump-refuses-to-condemn-violence-at-his-rallies

When asked for comments on two of his supporters who brutally beat and urinated on a Hispanic homeless man while yelling Pro-Trump Slogans, Trump responds by defending the men as just being "passionate".

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/21/trump-says-fans-are-very-passionate-after-hearing-one-of-them-allegedly-assaulted-hispanic-man/
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/donald-trump-calls-boston-brothers-who-beat-homeless-hispanic-man-his-name-passionate-1516392
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/08/20/after-two-brothers-allegedly-beat-homeless-man-one-them-admiringly-quote-donald-trump-deporting-illegals/I4NXR3Dr7litLi2NB4f9TN/story.html

The Economist polls Trump supporters and discovers:

    15% disapprove of slavery being abolished

    - (Another 20% aren’t sure one way or another)

    50% support the use of torture on foreign enemy combatants

    - (Another 25% aren’t sure one way or another)

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ctucuikdsj/econToplines.pdf

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/upshot/measuring-donald-trumps-supporters-for-intolerance.html?smid=tw-share&_r=2

    http://time.com/4236640/donald-trump-racist-supporters/

80% of Trump's supporters claim to have no problem with racist comments.

    http://www.politicususa.com/2016/06/12/8o-percent-gop-voters-trumps-racist-comments-totally-fine.html

Trump falsely claims 4 out of 5 white people who were victims of homicide were murdered by blacks.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/23/donald-trump/trump-tweet-blacks-white-homicide-victims/

Trump believes that Mexicans are rapist by default.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi33KkhKRWs
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

Trump tweeted an anti-semitic tweet likely depicting Hillary jewish.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-star-david-225058?cmpid=sf
    https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/749239879645687808
    https://mic.com/articles/147711/donald-trump-s-star-of-david-hillary-clinton-meme-was-created-by-white-supremacists#.tfw8osmNX

The HRC David star tweet turned out to originate from a neo-nazi website.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DC_GOP_2016_TRUMP_TWEET?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-s-star-david-tweet-about-hillary-clinton-posted-n603161

Trump retweets quote from Italian Dictator Benito Mussolini.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35682844
    http://time.com/4240330/donald-trump-benito-mussolini-quote/
    http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/28/donald-trump-retweets-post-likening-him-to-mussolini/

Trump uses picture of Nazi soldiers in official campaign poster.

    https://news.vice.com/article/donald-trump-just-tweeted-and-deleted-a-picture-featuring-nazi-ss-soldiers?utm_source=vicenewstwitter
    https://i.imgur.com/JDqBCXd.jpg

Trump's spokesman, Katrina Pierson, critized Obama for being "a negro" and not "pure-breed".

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/29/katrina-pierson-donald-trump-spokeswoman-defends-t/
    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/top-trump-official-defends-call-for-pure-breed-president-obama-is-a-half-breed-and-so-am-i/
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/266845-trump-spokeswoman-defends-pure-breeds-tweet

Opinions of his supporters.

    20% of Trump's supporters think that freeing the slaves was a bad thing. http://time.com/4236640/donald-trump-racist-supporters/

    65% of Trump's supporters think Obama is a muslim. http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2016/05/gop-quickly-unifies-around-trump-clinton-still-has-modest-lead.html#more

    64% of Trump's supporters think that "Muslims should be subject to more scrutiny" http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/11/trump-supporters-differ-from-other-gop-voters-on-foreign-policy-immigration-issues/?utm_content=buffer053ac&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    Trump supporters are more likely than supporters of other Republican candidates to have negative feelings towards feminists, Muslims, Latinos, Gays and Lesbians, and Transgender people. In contrast, Trump supporters have far warmer feelings towards whites than supporters of other candidates. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-voters-versus-republicans_us_573b0ec0e4b060aa781b32ce

Trump's "muslim ban" is unconstitutional.

    http://time.com/4139476/donald-trump-shutdown-muslim-immigration/
    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2015/12/08/is-trumps-proposed-ban-on-muslim-entry-constitutional/
    https://reason.com/blog/2016/03/03/donald-trump-enemy-of-the-constitution

Trump thinks that muslims should wear "special ID badges", as well as having a database tracking muslims.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/trump-crosses-the-nazi-line-maybe-muslims-should-wear-special-id-badges/
    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/20/opinions/obeidallah-trump-anti-muslim/

Trump lies about how "muslims celebrated 9/11".

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-911_us_565b1950e4b08e945feb7326
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/

Trump wants to racially profile to "prevent criminality".

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-idUSKCN0Z50PV
    http://fortune.com/2016/06/19/trump-racial-profiling/
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/19/donald-trump-proposes-racial-profiling-gun-control-nra

Trump had a full-page ad promoting execution of a group of Latino and Black children, who later turned out to be innocent.

Trump continued to believe that they were somehow guilty despite the DNA test.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/17/central-park-five-donald-trump-jogger-rape-case-new-york
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/donald-trump-and-the-central-park-five
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/325982969040879620?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

He believes that Obama was born in Kenya.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/07/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-president-obamas-grandmother-cau/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-muslim.html?_r=0
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

He attacked Judge P. Curiel for his "Mexican heritage"

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-keeps-up-attacks-on-judge-gonzalo-curiel-1464911442
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2016/06/30/greenpeace-more-dishonest-and-dangerous-than-the-mafia/#18d6cc541f44
    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/06/no-judge-curiel-not-biased-against-donald-trump

Anne Frank's relatives thinks that Trump is 'acting like Hitler'.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/anne-franks-step-sister-says-donald-trump-is-acting-like-hitler-a6838531.html
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/27/politics/anne-frank-donald-trump-adolf-hitler/index.html

Trump was fined $200,000 in 1992 by the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement for not allowing blacks or women onto his casino floor while a racist Mafia leader was gambling.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/downashore/Trump-ties-to-mobster-racist-casino-policies-resurface-in-new-report.html

Trump kicked the only black Republican official out of an Atlanta Trump event with no explanation.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/black-georgia-gop-official-booted-from-atlanta-trump-event-with-no-explanation/

[Jeremy E.]

Maybe they should be private, but I think if you want to represent our country, you should be as transparent as possible and show that you aren't hiding anything. It's not a requirement for him to show everyone his tax returns, it's just a common courtesy that has turned into a tradition. I would like to see Trump's tax returns, I'd like to know how much income he's"earning", how much he's donating, how much tax he's paying, what loopholes or write-offs he is using, and where his income is coming from. Do I need to see this information? No, but since he won't show it to us as a common courtesy I'm assuming he doesn't make nearly as much as he claims, he pays no taxes and donates nothing(or donates only when he gets caught paying for his personal things with the Trump foundations money, and has to donate to prevent getting into too much trouble.)

[Gin1984]

I'm more concerned that he pays nothing and  STILL wants to cut taxes to the rich.  He knows that won't benefit his group yet he is still doing it, why?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[Pigeon]

When you decide to run for public office, you give up a lot of personal privacy.  That includes running for the presidency.  Knowing who Mr. Trump has done business with, and may therefore do favors for, is and should be, of interest to the public. 

In the case of Mr. Trump, he seems to expect that people should take him at his word, because his character is YUUUGGGGEEE.  He has the best character.  Many people have said it.  Despite all that, I'd like to see his tax return.

[TheOldestYoungMan]

As long as his deductions are legal, no problem. Hill too, for that matter.
I agree that Trump is not really qualified to be president, but I don't see where you get him being a racist from. His comment that some Mexicans are rapists? Some are. Or his wanting to cut immigration sharply, especially from countries where most people have very different cultures and values? I have no problem with that either.

If you do not get the racist part yet you may never, but I will try to walk you through it.

Logic step one: Look up the definition for racist.  Here from Google: a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Logic step two: look up the actual text in question from a primary source. Here is the primary transcript of his announcement. http://time.com/3923128/donald-trump-announcement-speech/
Here is the actual quote of text to be analyzed.  "The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

Logic step three: Combine the definition, text, and implicit comparisons and see if it is an example of the definition.

a person (Trump)  who believes (he stated it, so it is assumed he believes what he says) that a particular race (Here Mexicans in America. Mexicans is a race because it refers to a latino from a geographic location) is superior (He only assumes some are good people. Some is less than half and certainly less than what he believes his race has) to another (It is implicit that there is a comparison to whites when a white person makes the statements as to quality of a population of a differing race).

Aside to understanding implicit comparisons: When someone says "big apple" is there a comparison? Yes, the comparison is to what is normal in from that person's point of view. Here saying some people of Mexican origin are good people means compared to what the speaker thinks the population for good people is (Normally you would have to figure out the amount of good people in the normal distribution in the view of the speaker, surely more than some. Here, he is running for president and has touted that Americans are the greatest people, significantly more than some) compared to what the population for good people of Mexican origin some (not many) are good people.

Logic step four: evaluate if the definition, speech text, and implicit support the claim.

You could also run this definition through what he states about black communities or Arabs.

Mexico is a country, not a race.  Trump is totally racist, but that particular comment struck me as nationalistic, not racist.  That was right at the beginning, and the speed with which everyone pounced with the racist label left me feeling a little bit of whiplash.

Nationalism is a separate (and arguably just as dangerous) sentiment from racism.  Discussion of Nationalism and the harm it can bring, specifically Trumps brand compared to more constructive brands, are where they key to converting his supporters lies.

Standing on the race issue, well, liberals call everyone racist now so honestly there's alot of us who sort of ignore that criticism of someone.  It's like you called him a human.  Yea, and?

Talk about how constructive nationalism can be, if you focus on how great america is.  Honestly, make america great again is an offensive as fuck campaign slogan.  America is already great you jackass.  That's how you do it.  What's dangerous about Trump is that his entire campaign focuses on the negatives of others rather than the greatness of us.  I think attacking him on those grounds would be more constructive.

Calling him racist just seems...lazy?

[tonysemail]

thanks GuitarStv.  That's an incredibly detailed post.
Reading all the links would take more time than I care to spend on racism.

You had me at, "Donald Trump violated the civil rights act by refusing to rent homes to black people.".
That was all the proof I needed.

Back on topic-
I was fascinated by the discussion of hedge funds which happened after Romney released his tax returns.
It was great to see the stories about Romney's tax strategies.
Selfishly, I want him to release his returns to see what strategies he is exploiting.
But I can appreciate how his campaign is better served by keeping the controversy alive.
More air time!

[Mississippi Mudstache]

thanks GuitarStv.  That's an incredibly detailed post.
Reading all the links would take more time than I care to spend on racism.

Yeah, that was among the most epic posts in the history of this forum. I can't imagine how long it took to hyperlink that colossus.

*slow clap*

[GuitarStv]

There's so much evidence of racial/bigoted problems with Trump that it's painful to me to hear someone express confusion when he's called a racist/bigot.

[zephyr911]

My $.02: everyone getting wrapped around the axle over Trump possibly not paying for many years, is missing the point.

It doesn't really matter if he gamed the system to avoid taxation. It does matter if he continually calls out other people as leeches and parasites for doing functionally equivalent things... which he, and his supporters, like to do. He can roll his NOLs forward for the rest of his life for all I care, as long as he'll also STFU about anyone legally getting tax breaks or aid entitlements for any valid reason. Full stop.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

It doesn't really matter if he gamed the system to avoid taxation. It does matter if he continually calls out other people as leeches and parasites for doing functionally equivalent things... which he, and his supporters, like to do. He can roll his NOLs forward for the rest of his life for all I care, as long as he'll also STFU about anyone legally getting tax breaks or aid entitlements for any valid reason. Full stop.

Completely agree. I don't hold it against him for using the tax code to his own advantage, but he is a massive hypocrite for 1) condemning half the country for not paying taxes, and 2) promoting tax cuts that he stands to benefit from at the expense of those who are not as well-off. But ultimately, it doesn't make difference to me if he releases them or not, because there are absolultey no circumstances under which I would consider voting for him.

[TheOldestYoungMan]

My $.02: everyone getting wrapped around the axle over Trump possibly not paying for many years, is missing the point.

It doesn't really matter if he gamed the system to avoid taxation. It does matter if he continually calls out other people as leeches and parasites for doing functionally equivalent things... which he, and his supporters, like to do. He can roll his NOLs forward for the rest of his life for all I care, as long as he'll also STFU about anyone legally getting tax breaks or aid entitlements for any valid reason. Full stop.

So, it's impossible to both play by the rules as they currently exist and think the current rules are silly?  That's what he's being accused of at this point.  It would be different if he had done something illegal, I understand that attack.  Release the returns so we can see if there was a failure to pay what was owed.  But not paying what wasn't owed?  Fuck me fucking sideways.  Paying the minimum amount you owe on your income tax is one thing every american has in common.  Hell, outright cheating on your taxes is the true american pastime.  Remember in 1987 when seven million children disappeared?  http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/dependents.asp

I know of nobody, not one, who voluntarily pays extra.  Some do so by accident and are universally regarded as idiots.  There's outright contempt on this board shown often for folks who fail to max out their pre-tax retirement contributions.  And I can have serious issues with the concept of deductions for home or business loans while at the same time taking those deductions for myself.  This isn't even a "hold the candidate to a higher standard" thing.  On this issue there is zero evidence of wrongdoing.  What was that about republicans being the unreasonable ones because there was no evidence HRC did anything criminal when she knowingly mishandled classified information?  Democrats would never make an issue over perfectly illegal but not prosecutable behavior, much less something legal to do.  Right?  I mean, it wasn't purely partisan support of your chosen one right?  Right?

You should be intensely wary of any argument used by those in a position of political power to condemn or vilify opponents based on those opponents' compliance with legal systems.  Donald Trump has engaged in a variety of business practices, and as far as I know, tax fraud isn't a thing he's ever been guilty of.  If there is an issue with how that current system picks winners, the fault lies not in those who sought compliance ("took advantage") it is with those who set the rules in the first place.  This attack in particular should trouble you to your core, because it is the very method used over and over again for RICH POWERFUL POLITICIANS to win versus RICH POWERFUL CITIZENS.  So where's the hypocrisy here?  HRC takes all the deductions she can, she's a goddamn lawyer.  Trump hires some guys to do it, he probably has no idea what his returns say.  He was told by his lawyer not to release his returns and he's not taking any chances.  He's not HRC, he won't get passed over for criminal prosecution.

Far more suspicious is someone who managed to become wealthy while ostensibly engaged in public service.

Plenty of reasons to not support Donald Trump, the racist ignorant bigot.  You demean yourself if this is one of them.

[redbirdfan]

Serious question.  At what point is someone generally informed that they are being audited?  Trump announced his candidacy in the middle of last year.  I assume he didn't file his 2015 taxes until sometime between January and October 2016.  Is there a such thing as an automatic audit?  It seems to me that there would have been some time frame between his filing the return and finding out he was audited (even if he knew it was coming). 

[radram]

As long as his deductions are legal, no problem. Hill too, for that matter.
I agree that Trump is not really qualified to be president, but I don't see where you get him being a racist from. His comment that some Mexicans are rapists? Some are. Or his wanting to cut immigration sharply, especially from countries where most people have very different cultures and values? I have no problem with that either.

If you do not get the racist part yet you may never, but I will try to walk you through it.

Logic step one: Look up the definition for racist.  Here from Google: a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Logic step two: look up the actual text in question from a primary source. Here is the primary transcript of his announcement. http://time.com/3923128/donald-trump-announcement-speech/
Here is the actual quote of text to be analyzed.  "The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

Logic step three: Combine the definition, text, and implicit comparisons and see if it is an example of the definition.

a person (Trump)  who believes (he stated it, so it is assumed he believes what he says) that a particular race (Here Mexicans in America. Mexicans is a race because it refers to a latino from a geographic location) is superior (He only assumes some are good people. Some is less than half and certainly less than what he believes his race has) to another (It is implicit that there is a comparison to whites when a white person makes the statements as to quality of a population of a differing race).

Aside to understanding implicit comparisons: When someone says "big apple" is there a comparison? Yes, the comparison is to what is normal in from that person's point of view. Here saying some people of Mexican origin are good people means compared to what the speaker thinks the population for good people is (Normally you would have to figure out the amount of good people in the normal distribution in the view of the speaker, surely more than some. Here, he is running for president and has touted that Americans are the greatest people, significantly more than some) compared to what the population for good people of Mexican origin some (not many) are good people.

Logic step four: evaluate if the definition, speech text, and implicit support the claim.

You could also run this definition through what he states about black communities or Arabs.

Were it examined in a vacuum it may be possible to argue that the Mexican rapist comment wasn't racist.  There is quite a lot of evidence of racism and bigotry surrounding Trump though.  Certainly you shouldn't convict a man on circumstance, but at the same time . . . where there's enough smoke it's foolish to pretend that there's no fire.



Donald Trump violated the civil rights act by refusing to rent homes to black people.

    http://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/07/30/1973-meet-donald-trump/
    http://new.www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/29/donald-trump-blacks-lawsuit_n_855553.html
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/15/doj-trump-s-early-businesses-blocked-blacks.html
    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/09/07/the-death-and-life-of-atlantic-city

Trump continued to refuse to rent homes to black people three years after Justice Department ruling on the matter sides against Trump.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1978/03/07/archives/trump-charged-with-rental-bias.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/1983/10/16/realestate/for-starrett-city-an-integration-test.html?scp=4&sq=trump+discrimination&st=nyt&pagewanted=all

Trump ordered blacks to leave casino floor whenever him or wife arrives on property.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/09/07/the-death-and-life-of-atlantic-city

1991 book written by Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino President quotes Trump as saying:

“I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day… . I think the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.“

    http://articles.philly.com/1991-05-10/news/25795529_1_trump-associates-trump-s-atlantic-city-donald-trump

Trump built a casino in black majority city and breaks promise to mayor about hiring locals, refrains to hire the minorities and opting to staff the casino with almost exclusively all Caucasian employees.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/money/trump-hit-race-suit-blacks-don-dealt-casino-jobs-article-1.726389

Trump was asked about replacing TSA's 'heebeejabis' with veterans, responded with:

"We're looking at it"

    http://www.npr.org/2016/06/30/484229621/woman-asks-trump-about-replacing-tsas-heebejabis-with-veterans
    http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-response-anti-muslim-tsa-worker-question-veterans-2016-7
    http://time.com/4039658/trump-obama-muslim/

Trump responded to accusations of racism by hiring a former aid for Joseph McCarthy to sue the government for half a billion dollars.

    http://www.salon.com/2011/04/28/donald_trump_discrimination_suit/

Trump kept books of Hitler Speeches by his bed.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8
    http://forward.com/the-assimilator/318664/trump-and-hitler/
    http://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-hitler-speeches-book

Trump's campaign photoshopped a white model black.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trumps-people-almost-definitely-photoshopped-a-white-model-to-make-her-black_us_56d872d5e4b03a405677a680
    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/donald-trump-photoshopped-models-to-be-african-american-in-his-online-store/

Trump refused to disavow support from the Klu Klux Klan multiple times during interview only to change his mind later on twitter.

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/3739/disgusting-trump-reverses-himself-refuses-disavow-ben-shapiro
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kkk-cnn-tapper-154053871.html
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/28/468455028/trump-wont-condemn-kkk-says-he-knows-nothing-about-white-supremacists
    http://time.com/4240268/donald-trump-kkk-david-duke/
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/david-duke-trump-219777

The KKK endorses Trump.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/a-lot-of-what-he-believes-we-believe-kkk-grand-imperial-wizard-endorses-trump/
    http://www.snopes.com/2016/05/02/klan-leader-endorses-trump/
    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/04/30/3774243/ku-klux-klan-imperial-wizard-endorses-donald-trump-for-president/

Trump retweets message from Pro-Hitler, white genocide conspiracy Twitter account.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-whitegenocidetm-retweet
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/430201/donald-trump-retweets-white-genocide-twitter-user
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-retweets-white-genocide-account-based-in-jewmerica/
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/donald-trump-retweets-neo-nazi-sympathizer-article-1.2506735

Analysis shows that 62% of the people Trump retweeted on the week of January 19th 2016 were white supremacist accounts.

    http://www.getlittlebird.com/blog/data-62-of-the-people-donald-trump-rted-this-week-follow-multiple-white-supremacist-accounts

Trump picks famed white supremacist leader as delegate.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/donald-trump-white-nationalist-afp-delegate-california

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/45928_Donald_Trump_Picks_Well-Known_White_Nationalist_Leader_as_a_Delegate_in_California

    http://www.nationalmemo.com/trump-picks-white-nationalist-leader-as-delegate/

Trump's son gives interview with Holocaust denying radio show host who wants to bring back slavery.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Cesspool#Donald_Trump_Jr._interview

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/donald-trump-son-pro-slavery-host-interview-220120?lo=ap_c1

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/271501-trump-grants-press-credentials-to-pro-white-radio-show

Trump's "my African-American" isn't even a Trump supporter.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/05/480864303/trumps-african-american-i-am-not-a-trump-supporter

Trump gives press credentials to white supremacist radio host.

    http://www.nationalmemo.com/donald-trump-gives-interview-pres-credentials-to-white-supremacist/

Trump discriminated against Native-Americans as well.

    http://www.courant.com/business/dan-haar/hc-haar-donald-trump-connecticut-indians-weicker-20150810-column.html

Six former contestants of The Apprentice blast Trump as a racist and sexist.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/former-apprentice-contestants-denounce-donald-trump-s-candidacy-n556306

Trumps father was arrested for attacking police officers at KKK rally.

    http://boingboing.net/2015/09/09/1927-news-report-donald-trump.html
    http://addictinginfo.org/2015/09/09/donald-trumps-dad-was-arrested-during-kkk-rally-that-attacked-two-police-officers/
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/fred-trump-arrest-1927-kkk

Public Policy Polling polls Trump supporters and discovers:

    60% Support banning Muslims from entering the United States

    50% Support the Confederate flag hanging on the capital grounds

    30% Support shutting down all mosques in the United States

    30% Wish the South won the civil war

    25% Islam should be illegal in the United States

    25% Support the policy of Japanese Internment

    20% Support banning homosexuals from entering the United States

    10% Say Whites are a superior race

    (11% aren’t sure one way or another)

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_SC_21616.pdf

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/one_out_of_three_trump_voters_in_sc_would_ban_gays_from_entering_the_u_s

    http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/02/guess-how-many-donald-trump-supporters-want-gay-people-barred-from-entering-america/

Trump refuses to condemn violence against muslims and African-Americans committed by his supporters.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-idUSKCN0WM0RJ
    http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/trump-refuses-to-condemn-violence-at-his-rallies

When asked for comments on two of his supporters who brutally beat and urinated on a Hispanic homeless man while yelling Pro-Trump Slogans, Trump responds by defending the men as just being "passionate".

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/21/trump-says-fans-are-very-passionate-after-hearing-one-of-them-allegedly-assaulted-hispanic-man/
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/donald-trump-calls-boston-brothers-who-beat-homeless-hispanic-man-his-name-passionate-1516392
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/08/20/after-two-brothers-allegedly-beat-homeless-man-one-them-admiringly-quote-donald-trump-deporting-illegals/I4NXR3Dr7litLi2NB4f9TN/story.html

The Economist polls Trump supporters and discovers:

    15% disapprove of slavery being abolished

    - (Another 20% aren’t sure one way or another)

    50% support the use of torture on foreign enemy combatants

    - (Another 25% aren’t sure one way or another)

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ctucuikdsj/econToplines.pdf

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/upshot/measuring-donald-trumps-supporters-for-intolerance.html?smid=tw-share&_r=2

    http://time.com/4236640/donald-trump-racist-supporters/

80% of Trump's supporters claim to have no problem with racist comments.

    http://www.politicususa.com/2016/06/12/8o-percent-gop-voters-trumps-racist-comments-totally-fine.html

Trump falsely claims 4 out of 5 white people who were victims of homicide were murdered by blacks.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/23/donald-trump/trump-tweet-blacks-white-homicide-victims/

Trump believes that Mexicans are rapist by default.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi33KkhKRWs
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

Trump tweeted an anti-semitic tweet likely depicting Hillary jewish.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-star-david-225058?cmpid=sf
    https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/749239879645687808
    https://mic.com/articles/147711/donald-trump-s-star-of-david-hillary-clinton-meme-was-created-by-white-supremacists#.tfw8osmNX

The HRC David star tweet turned out to originate from a neo-nazi website.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DC_GOP_2016_TRUMP_TWEET?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-s-star-david-tweet-about-hillary-clinton-posted-n603161

Trump retweets quote from Italian Dictator Benito Mussolini.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35682844
    http://time.com/4240330/donald-trump-benito-mussolini-quote/
    http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/28/donald-trump-retweets-post-likening-him-to-mussolini/

Trump uses picture of Nazi soldiers in official campaign poster.

    https://news.vice.com/article/donald-trump-just-tweeted-and-deleted-a-picture-featuring-nazi-ss-soldiers?utm_source=vicenewstwitter
    https://i.imgur.com/JDqBCXd.jpg

Trump's spokesman, Katrina Pierson, critized Obama for being "a negro" and not "pure-breed".

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/29/katrina-pierson-donald-trump-spokeswoman-defends-t/
    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/top-trump-official-defends-call-for-pure-breed-president-obama-is-a-half-breed-and-so-am-i/
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/266845-trump-spokeswoman-defends-pure-breeds-tweet

Opinions of his supporters.

    20% of Trump's supporters think that freeing the slaves was a bad thing. http://time.com/4236640/donald-trump-racist-supporters/

    65% of Trump's supporters think Obama is a muslim. http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2016/05/gop-quickly-unifies-around-trump-clinton-still-has-modest-lead.html#more

    64% of Trump's supporters think that "Muslims should be subject to more scrutiny" http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/11/trump-supporters-differ-from-other-gop-voters-on-foreign-policy-immigration-issues/?utm_content=buffer053ac&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    Trump supporters are more likely than supporters of other Republican candidates to have negative feelings towards feminists, Muslims, Latinos, Gays and Lesbians, and Transgender people. In contrast, Trump supporters have far warmer feelings towards whites than supporters of other candidates. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-voters-versus-republicans_us_573b0ec0e4b060aa781b32ce

Trump's "muslim ban" is unconstitutional.

    http://time.com/4139476/donald-trump-shutdown-muslim-immigration/
    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2015/12/08/is-trumps-proposed-ban-on-muslim-entry-constitutional/
    https://reason.com/blog/2016/03/03/donald-trump-enemy-of-the-constitution

Trump thinks that muslims should wear "special ID badges", as well as having a database tracking muslims.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/trump-crosses-the-nazi-line-maybe-muslims-should-wear-special-id-badges/
    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/20/opinions/obeidallah-trump-anti-muslim/

Trump lies about how "muslims celebrated 9/11".

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-911_us_565b1950e4b08e945feb7326
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/

Trump wants to racially profile to "prevent criminality".

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-idUSKCN0Z50PV
    http://fortune.com/2016/06/19/trump-racial-profiling/
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/19/donald-trump-proposes-racial-profiling-gun-control-nra

Trump had a full-page ad promoting execution of a group of Latino and Black children, who later turned out to be innocent.

Trump continued to believe that they were somehow guilty despite the DNA test.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/17/central-park-five-donald-trump-jogger-rape-case-new-york
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/donald-trump-and-the-central-park-five
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/325982969040879620?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

He believes that Obama was born in Kenya.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/07/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-president-obamas-grandmother-cau/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-muslim.html?_r=0
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

He attacked Judge P. Curiel for his "Mexican heritage"

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-keeps-up-attacks-on-judge-gonzalo-curiel-1464911442
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2016/06/30/greenpeace-more-dishonest-and-dangerous-than-the-mafia/#18d6cc541f44
    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/06/no-judge-curiel-not-biased-against-donald-trump

Anne Frank's relatives thinks that Trump is 'acting like Hitler'.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/anne-franks-step-sister-says-donald-trump-is-acting-like-hitler-a6838531.html
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/27/politics/anne-frank-donald-trump-adolf-hitler/index.html

Trump was fined $200,000 in 1992 by the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement for not allowing blacks or women onto his casino floor while a racist Mafia leader was gambling.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/donald-trump-scandals/474726/
    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/downashore/Trump-ties-to-mobster-racist-casino-policies-resurface-in-new-report.html

Trump kicked the only black Republican official out of an Atlanta Trump event with no explanation.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/black-georgia-gop-official-booted-from-atlanta-trump-event-with-no-explanation/

That's a suggestion. They have to put that on there. </sarcasm>

[radram]

Serious question.  At what point is someone generally informed that they are being audited?  Trump announced his candidacy in the middle of last year.  I assume he didn't file his 2015 taxes until sometime between January and October 2016.  Is there a such thing as an automatic audit?  It seems to me that there would have been some time frame between his filing the return and finding out he was audited (even if he knew it was coming).

There is talk(read completely unsubstantiated rumor) of a "Big Announcement" regarding Trump and his taxes.  Some have already spoiled it by telling the possible tale, so it probably won't happen even if it was ever a plan.

Here is the scenario:
Let's say Trump filed an extension for 2015.  Fairly common practice. No big deal.  So he files on October 15th for the 2015 tax year, and there is no way he is under an immediate audit for that year, so he releases the 2015 tax return immediately.  What do we find?  Well, of course we find the most charitable tax payer in the history of man.  HUGE donations to charities, no loss carryovers, huge profits.  You know, a real job creator and overall swell guy. Probably gives generously to puppies.  After the election, win or lose, he files an amended return.  Those charities, oops... looked at the wrong line item.  Loss carryover..... how did I forget that?  My bad.  All good now.  Bring on the audit.  I am completely legal.....and I fired those bozo's over at Dewey Cheetum and How for the gross mix-up.

I would love to see the ridiculousness of it all.  If he does it, and we buy it, and he wins, then I want him to be president. FOREVER.

[Spork]

Yeah it really only matters to see what possible foreign or shady sources of income you have. 

This is really the only reason I care. And I barely care, at all.

Unless your campaign is almost entirely based on the fact that you are a great business man, and your taxes reflect the narrative that you are actually a bad businessman capable of turning a large fortune into a small one.

Caveat:  I am NOT NOT NOT a Trump supporter.  I am NOT a tax expert.  I am also skeptical about posting in some political firestorm thread that will turn into a pile of sludge.

This was exactly my reaction.  Then I did a little googlage.... and found this.  For what it's worth, there are several equivalent explanations if you hate Huffpost.  It appears as if this is truly a juggling of the tax code.  There was no real loss on his part. 

But: Appears legal.  As someone else said: This appears to be an indication that our tax code is just awful.  But ... I am always looking for ways to reduce my taxes, so... I can't actually blame him.  But it won't make me vote for him.

[2buttons]

Not a trump supporter, but people are really buying this hook, line, and sinker?

The guy is worth billions and he has ups and downs in his business.  At that time people were estimating losses of $1.4 billion, so $916m NOL is not outrageous. 

Also, none of this has been actually proved regarding his actual tax situation, its all theory, yet the media is presenting it as fact, and mind you, no one has a clue on where it came from other than a postmark. 

I know its become a sport to hate the guy if you are on the left, and even some of us on the right, but c'mon, that should not come at the expense of seeking the actual truth.

[Pigeon]

Expecting him to release his returns is seeking the actual truth.

[2buttons]

Agreed, but that's not what happened here.

[zephyr911]

So, it's impossible to both play by the rules as they currently exist and think the current rules are silly?  That's what he's being accused of at this point.  It would be different if he had done something illegal, I understand that attack.  Release the returns so we can see if there was a failure to pay what was owed.  But not paying what wasn't owed?  Fuck me fucking sideways.  Paying the minimum amount you owe on your income tax is one thing every american has in common.  Hell, outright cheating on your taxes is the true american pastime.  Remember in 1987 when seven million children disappeared?  http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/dependents.asp

I know of nobody, not one, who voluntarily pays extra.  Some do so by accident and are universally regarded as idiots.  There's outright contempt on this board shown often for folks who fail to max out their pre-tax retirement contributions.  And I can have serious issues with the concept of deductions for home or business loans while at the same time taking those deductions for myself.  This isn't even a "hold the candidate to a higher standard" thing.  On this issue there is zero evidence of wrongdoing.  What was that about republicans being the unreasonable ones because there was no evidence HRC did anything criminal when she knowingly mishandled classified information?  Democrats would never make an issue over perfectly illegal but not prosecutable behavior, much less something legal to do.  Right?  I mean, it wasn't purely partisan support of your chosen one right?  Right?

You should be intensely wary of any argument used by those in a position of political power to condemn or vilify opponents based on those opponents' compliance with legal systems.  Donald Trump has engaged in a variety of business practices, and as far as I know, tax fraud isn't a thing he's ever been guilty of.  If there is an issue with how that current system picks winners, the fault lies not in those who sought compliance ("took advantage") it is with those who set the rules in the first place.  This attack in particular should trouble you to your core, because it is the very method used over and over again for RICH POWERFUL POLITICIANS to win versus RICH POWERFUL CITIZENS.  So where's the hypocrisy here?  HRC takes all the deductions she can, she's a goddamn lawyer.  Trump hires some guys to do it, he probably has no idea what his returns say.  He was told by his lawyer not to release his returns and he's not taking any chances.  He's not HRC, he won't get passed over for criminal prosecution.

Far more suspicious is someone who managed to become wealthy while ostensibly engaged in public service.

Plenty of reasons to not support Donald Trump, the racist ignorant bigot.  You demean yourself if this is one of them.

Let me first say, I'm not sure if I'm feeling extra dumb today or you just tried to say one too many things in one post... but some of these points, I'm not sure if they're directed at me or at people in general based on the criticisms above. So I apologize in advance if my responses are misdirected.

So, it's impossible to both play by the rules as they currently exist and think the current rules are silly?

According to whom? I absolutely do this. Lots of people do this. Buffett pays the minimum he owes, and the last time he spoke up about his secretary having a higher tax rate than his, he was heaped with scorn from the right. Pay extra, they said (missing the point completely). I absolutely support playing by the rules, including paying the minimum owed, and disagree with any schmuck who thinks it removes our right to criticize said rules.

I know of nobody, not one, who voluntarily pays extra.[...]I mean, it wasn't purely partisan support of your chosen one right?  Right?

I do not disagree with a single thing you said in this paragraph, and I would be confused if you said I appeared to have done so above. My point was about hypocrisy: we can all disagree about the validity of various rules, while complying for the sake of our own fortunes, but if either of us presumes to demean the character of the other for doing so, that's where the line is crossed, and that is where I would hold it against him (or you, or anyone, including myself).

You should be intensely wary of any argument used by those in a position of political power to condemn or vilify opponents based on those opponents' compliance with legal systems[...]

As with the above, preacher/choir. The fact that both major parties routinely engage in those kinds of games is a big part of my disenchantment with them.

Plenty of reasons to not support Donald Trump, the racist ignorant bigot.  You demean yourself if this is one of them.

Since this appears to imply I hold a position other than what I intended to convey, here's one final attempt to clarify: I'd only have a problem with Trump (or anyone) using paper losses to avoid taxation on years of actual income if they simultaneously claimed that others doing equivalent things (playing within the rules for their own benefit) are of lesser character or value because they do so.
As it is my understanding that he and his supporters routinely, gleefully engage in that very behavior, I do find it a problem. Not because he had a smart tax preparer, but because of the double standard. As always, I remain open to new information that would change the picture.

[Dancin'Dog]

Is there a history of his bankruptcies?  Why should we want a president that has been bankrupt, ....multiple times?

How about how many times he's been sued? 

Those things seem more relevant than his tax returns. 

[zephyr911]

Is there a history of his bankruptcies?  Why should we want a president that has been bankrupt, ....multiple times?

How about how many times he's been sued? 

Those things seem more relevant than his tax returns.

I don't know much about his bankruptcies but as it happens, I stumbled on this earlier today:
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/trumps-own-bankruptcy-lawyers-say-he-lies-so-much-they-could-only-meet-with-him-in-pairs/

[acroy]

0 personal bankruptcies
6 corporate bankruptcies

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/01/donald-trumps-bankruptcies/

About half of new business survive the first 5yrs, the number falls to under 40% at 10yrs.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140915223641-170128193-what-are-the-real-small-business-survival-rates

[zephyr911]

I wonder how many of those were set up as shell companies to extract maximum profit and leave unpaid debts/contractors behind. I mean of the total stats, but now that I've typed it, those are a common theme in the claims against DT...

[TheOldestYoungMan]

@zephyr911

Wasn't directed at you, just the story in general.

[thd7t]

@zephyr911

Wasn't directed at you, just the story in general.

The issue here is not that he is critical of the system that he has used to his advantage. It's that he has been critical of others who have done the same. That's where the hypocrisy is.

[nobodyspecial]

0 personal bankruptcies
6 corporate bankruptcies

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/01/donald-trumps-bankruptcies/

About half of new business survive the first 5yrs, the number falls to under 40% at 10yrs.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140915223641-170128193-what-are-the-real-small-business-survival-rates

Except I don't think his corporate bankruptcies were the result of trying some highly risky entrepreneurial high tech startup that failed.

[thd7t]

0 personal bankruptcies
6 corporate bankruptcies

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/01/donald-trumps-bankruptcies/

About half of new business survive the first 5yrs, the number falls to under 40% at 10yrs.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140915223641-170128193-what-are-the-real-small-business-survival-rates

Except I don't think his corporate bankruptcies were the result of trying some highly risky entrepreneurial high tech startup that failed.

And small business closings don't always involve bankruptcy.

[TheOldestYoungMan]

@zephyr911

Wasn't directed at you, just the story in general.

The issue here is not that he is critical of the system that he has used to his advantage. It's that he has been critical of others who have done the same. That's where the hypocrisy is.

Unless he was being critical of others who have done the same and who aren't critical of the system.  That's how his remarks came across to me, but I don't know of that many other wealthy people who've come out and publicly said they should pay higher taxes.  Maybe DT made remarks being specifically critical of them, but I don't think so (I mean, unless they happen to be Mexican).

The most notable examples I know are Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, and the one interview I remember seeing where DT was asked about the tax code he specifically cited that he agreed with them that these loopholes should be closed and that they should all be paying a bit more ("we've got to have a better tax code, the best tax code, all the best taxes" is probably how the quote goes).

I also saw him call out the wealthy elite in the GOP for supporting candidates just to make themselves richer.

I just don't really see the reason to go after this thing except as a class warfare attack, and indulging it from another rich person is just...stop it.  There's no poor person in this race, HRC and DT are both equally likely to perpetuate a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose corporatist protectionist doctrine.  Attacking businessmen for the winning by the current rules (and by implication suggesting that under different rules they wouldn't have won) is just crazy.  Regardless of the rules you enact, winners will likely win.  It is only in the chaos of the rule change that you can take down the weakest, least adaptable winners.

Every attack along these lines that an incumbent political player makes should blow up in their face.  Whatever you want to try and claim with this attack, DT did not make the rules, there can be no hypocrisy with him attacking the rules.

[marty998]

I wonder how many of those were set up as shell companies to extract maximum profit and leave unpaid debts/contractors behind. I mean of the total stats, but now that I've typed it, those are a common theme in the claims against DT...

Quite a common occurrence in the Property industry. Each development is segregated into it's own corporate entity. Once the project is completed you strip the assets via your poison of choice (e.g. related party loans), declare those loans unrecoverable and declare bankruptcy and then fail to pay sub-contractors, suppliers and the tax office.

You then set up a new company for the next development using the funds from those supposably non-recoverable related party loans and start again.

They call it the phoenix strategy.

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/the-fight-against-tax-crime/our-focus/fraudulent-phoenix-activities/