Author Topic: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election  (Read 31817 times)

jambongris

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #250 on: October 14, 2019, 10:51:36 AM »
I think you can only refuse ballots in certain provincial elections.

In federal elections I think that refused ballots get counted alongside the ballots that they were unable to decipher and aren’t tracked separately.

Wikipedia - Refused ballot

Why protest votes don't count ⁠— even if you drink your ballot
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 10:54:40 AM by jambongris »

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #251 on: October 14, 2019, 12:33:11 PM »
I think you can only refuse ballots in certain provincial elections.

In federal elections I think that refused ballots get counted alongside the ballots that they were unable to decipher and aren’t tracked separately.

Wikipedia - Refused ballot

Why protest votes don't count ⁠— even if you drink your ballot

Darn.  Not that I am going to refuse my ballot, I always vote.  Hold my nose and vote sometimes, but vote.  I suppose voting Rhinoceros or equivalent would send a message, since no-one thinks they will ever get a seat. 

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17615
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #252 on: October 14, 2019, 02:12:41 PM »
We voted today, I truly love advanced polls, took literally less than 5 minutes.

Dogastrophe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
  • Location: 44.6488° N, 63.5752° W
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #253 on: October 14, 2019, 02:34:20 PM »
We voted today, I truly love advanced polls, took literally less than 5 minutes.

Same here.  We went this morning around 930ish and were in and out in less than 5 mins.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #254 on: October 14, 2019, 03:49:44 PM »
I'm waiting for election day, when I can just take the elevator to my polling station.  ;-)

Seadog

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Halifax, NS
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #255 on: October 14, 2019, 04:12:00 PM »
I think you're right about refused ballots getting recorded. I can look it up later if it really matters.
But why would you do that? Unless a critical mass of people do it, your recorded refusal or unrecorded spoiling will be totally irrelevant to the election. You will be one of tens of people across the country who choose that particular method of protest, and no one will notice or care.

If you hate the options you have in elections, get politically involved. Be active in improving your country instead of just complaining that you don't like what's on the menu.

Actually throughout most of university I was involved with the university political club for one of the major parties, and actually got a couple seats to one of the leadership conventions for one of the main parties, alongside helping out with various other events. Unfortunately, being involved at the lower levels isn't much more effective than voting to effect real change. Particularly in ridings with extremely well entrenched candidates.

Part of that was also being present when votes got counted alongside representatives from other parties. Even from the one polling station, with maybe a thousand ballots, there were a few dozen spoiled ones. If I recall correctly, it did get counted along side ballots cast, but showed up in the difference between total ballots cast, and the sum total of votes to the various candidates.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23248
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #256 on: October 14, 2019, 05:43:42 PM »
It sounds like Wrench is concerned that immigrants enter the country and pay no "net taxes", rather they consume entitlements in excess of what they contribute.

How would you put numbers on this one?

GuitarStv wrote "On average, each immigrant family to Canada pays more in taxes (about twice more) than consumed from government benefits.  Therefore increasing immigrant population has the effect of reducing tax burden."

@GuitarStv  Source?  That sounds like they pay net taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_immigration_to_Canada#Wages

"A 1990 study found that an average immigrant household paid $22,528 in all forms of taxes and on average each household directly consumed $10,558 in government services. By contrast an average native Canadian household paid $20,259 in tax and consumed $10,102 dollars in services. Across the country this means that immigrant households contributed $2.6 billion more than their share to the public purse."

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #257 on: October 14, 2019, 07:21:13 PM »
It sounds like Wrench is concerned that immigrants enter the country and pay no "net taxes", rather they consume entitlements in excess of what they contribute.

How would you put numbers on this one?

GuitarStv wrote "On average, each immigrant family to Canada pays more in taxes (about twice more) than consumed from government benefits.  Therefore increasing immigrant population has the effect of reducing tax burden."

@GuitarStv  Source?  That sounds like they pay net taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_immigration_to_Canada#Wages

"A 1990 study found that an average immigrant household paid $22,528 in all forms of taxes and on average each household directly consumed $10,558 in government services. By contrast an average native Canadian household paid $20,259 in tax and consumed $10,102 dollars in services. Across the country this means that immigrant households contributed $2.6 billion more than their share to the public purse."

That is pretty clear.  But old.  I wonder if Stats Can has any summaries from more recent years.

techwiz

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3791
  • Location: Ontario
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #258 on: October 15, 2019, 09:06:35 AM »
We voted today, I truly love advanced polls, took literally less than 5 minutes.

My plan was to get in and out quickly too. Unfortunately I showed up on Monday at 11am and didn't get out until almost noon. There was a line up for our poll right out the door the other two polling stations in the same gym that had zero lines. Just bad luck or bad timing I guess? 

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada

rocketpj

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #260 on: October 16, 2019, 06:05:04 PM »
Quote
I was told once that as I got older I would become more conservative and more religious - I am wondering at what age this is supposed to kick in, because neither has happened yet.

Yeah, me neither. Shrug.

Me neither, in fact I find myself going the other way on some topics.

Beard N Bones

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 168
  • Location: Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #261 on: October 17, 2019, 01:33:38 PM »
Interesting summary of what each party would do for a few major categories:

https://www.moneysense.ca/columns/ask-a-planner/where-the-federal-parties-stand-on-personal-finance-promises/

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #262 on: October 17, 2019, 02:10:32 PM »
Interesting summary of what each party would do for a few major categories:

https://www.moneysense.ca/columns/ask-a-planner/where-the-federal-parties-stand-on-personal-finance-promises/

Wow, thanks for posting this - all sorts of things for us to talk about.

And of course, our own Rob Carrick (we have adopted him after CM*TO, right?) points out the topic for seniors they are all ignoring:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/personal-finance/retirement/article-women-the-main-victims-of-tax-discrimination-against-solo-seniors-a/

I'm not hit with the changes in pension sharing because I already did all the pension splitting when we divorced.  But it is definitely more expensive to live alone.  Ex kept the fancy house, and he can afford it because he has a new SO contributing.  And a friend of mine really saw the difference when her husband died.

I like a lot of NDP platform proposals, but having moved from a farming area I am shaking my head at this one:
The New Democrats have proposed a “super-wealth tax” affecting Canadians whose wealth totals more than $20 million. Each year, these taxpayers would owe 1% of the total value of their assets, including real estate, investments, and even cars and jewellery.

And they want to make it easier to pass along a family business to the next generation by ending the “unfair tax treatment” of family transfers.


When you look at land values and cost of equipment, I would guess a good sized farm could easily exceed $20 million in total assets.  Surely a big wheat/canola farm on the prairies would be well over this.

Plus this just strikes me as another make-work job for accountants, figuring out how to protect assets.  Or an encouragement to move assets offshore.

Moving on, have the Conservatives actually talked with the Quebec government about
They would amalgamate federal and provincial tax returns in Quebec, so Quebec residents can file a single tax return.  To me that just hands votes to other parties, maitres chez nous and all that gets massively stepped on.  Plus is it really a good idea to extend mortgage amortization periods to 30 years (NDP too for this proposal)?  I bought my first house when interest rates were at 7-9% and heading up, and 25 years was the cap.  If people can only buy a house at present day rates if they have a 30 year amortization rate, should they be buying a house at all?  And should public policy be encouraging them?

Those are just my first reactions.

Others?

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #263 on: October 17, 2019, 05:19:33 PM »
Things are getting interesting.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-modern-canadian-convention-1.5324463

Why is Scheer spouting nonsense?  Reminds me of Harper fussing about minority and coalition governments as if they were somehow unCanadian.

What do they teach in Canadian history in HS these days?  It's a looong time since I was in HS and I know the conventions of minority outcomes.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-votes-2019-minority-government-coalition-1.5323836

Lews Therin

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Magnum Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 3915
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Gatineau
  • Fee-only Financial Planner
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #264 on: October 17, 2019, 06:01:14 PM »
Because if people are afraid, they will vote for him.

People who simply say: Sheer idiocy. Already aren't voting for him, or don't care.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #265 on: October 17, 2019, 06:41:05 PM »
Because if people are afraid, they will vote for him.

People who simply say: Sheer idiocy. Already aren't voting for him, or don't care.

And if it happened, how long would he last before a vote of no confidence? And another election. Really the same for Trudeau.  NDP/PPC/Bloc seats would determine how stable one or the other would be.

Much as I want an active electorate, it would be nice if voters actually had a clue about how the system works.

Lews Therin

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Magnum Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 3915
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Gatineau
  • Fee-only Financial Planner
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #266 on: October 17, 2019, 08:03:55 PM »
Well, if sheer gets enough votes, then all he has to do is placate the BQ... Throw in QC things and they'll vote for his projects.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #267 on: October 18, 2019, 05:48:29 AM »
Well, if sheer gets enough votes, then all he has to do is placate the BQ... Throw in QC things and they'll vote for his projects.

For sure.  That is why I put in "NDP/PPC/Bloc seats would determine how stable one or the other would be."

But first Trudeau has to see if there are enough seats between the Liberals/NDP/Greens to form a government.  If there are enough PC/PPC/Bloc seats to form a government, then likely Trudeau won't have enough seats and it will be obvious.  Unless things get really weird and each side has exactly 170 seats. 


Lews Therin

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Magnum Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 3915
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Gatineau
  • Fee-only Financial Planner
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #268 on: October 18, 2019, 07:20:49 AM »
Trudeau doesn't have to make a contracted deal. He can just tally votes in advance from all parties. (Thus every large project would become a confidence vote, but that would mean he doesn't get tied to another party long term)

He could get bloc votes one time, npd and green another... Etc.


jambongris

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #269 on: October 18, 2019, 07:23:46 AM »
Well, if sheer gets enough votes, then all he has to do is placate the BQ... Throw in QC things and they'll vote for his projects.

For sure.  That is why I put in "NDP/PPC/Bloc seats would determine how stable one or the other would be."

But first Trudeau has to see if there are enough seats between the Liberals/NDP/Greens to form a government.  If there are enough PC/PPC/Bloc seats to form a government, then likely Trudeau won't have enough seats and it will be obvious.  Unless things get really weird and each side has exactly 170 seats.

There can’t be two sides that each have exactly 170 seats. They could each have 169 seats. 170 gives you a majority.

It’s looking like Monday night is going to be really interesting.

Also, looking at the poll numbers compared to seat projections for the BQ and the NDP really drives home the liberal failure to update our electoral processes.

The NDP have almost three times more votes (forecast) than the BQ but they’re both forecast to win approximately the same number of seats...

Lews Therin

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Magnum Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 3915
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Gatineau
  • Fee-only Financial Planner
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #270 on: October 18, 2019, 07:27:11 AM »
Could you imagine the stupidity if Bernier was the single deciding vote?
169-169-1

jambongris

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #271 on: October 18, 2019, 07:38:13 AM »
Could you imagine the stupidity if Bernier was the single deciding vote?
169-169-1

That would indeed be very interesting if the CPC won 169 and they needed Bernier to form a government.

The remaining parties would only have 168 seats though so Bernier wouldn’t be able to help them form a majority. He could help them tie the CPC in that scenario although I’m not sure what that would accomplish.

Wrenchturner

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1341
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #272 on: October 18, 2019, 08:26:19 AM »
A disappointing election.  Neither of the frontrunners are leaders, just blatant career politician types.  And they're not even trying to hide it.


RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #273 on: October 18, 2019, 09:43:13 AM »
338 seats, so my earlier arithmetic was wrong.  338/2 = 169, so 170 is a majority.  Doesn't the Speaker come from the governing party usually?  So that would bring them (whoever them was) down to 169.

Jambongris wrote: Also, looking at the poll numbers compared to seat projections for the BQ and the NDP really drives home the liberal failure to update our electoral processes.
The NDP have almost three times more votes (forecast) than the BQ but they’re both forecast to win approximately the same number of seats...


I so wish first past the post was gone.  This is so so wrong. 

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #274 on: October 20, 2019, 07:58:53 AM »
TOMORROW!!!!!!

Will Scheer's recent nastiness (and hiring of Kinsella) have any effect?  And which way.  Find out tomorrow night!

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #275 on: October 20, 2019, 09:09:58 AM »
Not that this is likely to change any votes, but it is interesting:

http://warrenkinsella.com/2019/10/statement/

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #276 on: October 20, 2019, 10:09:28 AM »
Huh.  I just got a robocall (on my cell phone, which is an unlisted number) from Canada Strong and Proud.  Very generic, vote for the party whose leader you respect and policies you like*.  But still.  My first robocall of this election.

*And really, do people vote for parties whose platforms they dislike and whose leaders they don't respect?

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #277 on: October 21, 2019, 12:28:47 PM »
I've voted.  Apparently it has been a steady influx. There were 3 people ahead of me and 2 came in as I was leaving. Over 200 apartments and we are the demographic that votes.

How is everyone else's voting day going?

daverobev

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3964
  • Location: France
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #278 on: October 21, 2019, 12:36:31 PM »
Postal vote and wrong timezone means I'll hear the outcome in the morning.

My prediction: Cheryl Gallant will win her riding again, making my vote worthless (though, for the small parties - is it country-wide vote numbers that leads to funding?).

rocketpj

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #279 on: October 21, 2019, 12:58:53 PM »
Huh.  I just got a robocall (on my cell phone, which is an unlisted number) from Canada Strong and Proud.  Very generic, vote for the party whose leader you respect and policies you like*.  But still.  My first robocall of this election.

*And really, do people vote for parties whose platforms they dislike and whose leaders they don't respect?

People often hold their noses and vote Liberal despite favoring NDP or Green.  So telling you to vote for the party you like is a way to undermine the Liberal campaign in your riding.

I got the same call, slightly different wording but much the same message and definitely trying to undermine the Liberal frontrunner in my riding.

rocketpj

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #280 on: October 21, 2019, 01:00:26 PM »
Postal vote and wrong timezone means I'll hear the outcome in the morning.

My prediction: Cheryl Gallant will win her riding again, making my vote worthless (though, for the small parties - is it country-wide vote numbers that leads to funding?).

I don't think they get any funding anymore - one of the first things that Harper threw out back in the day as a 'taxpayer subsidy for politicians'.  I liked the funding Chretien set up, but I also understand the opposition to it.

Dogastrophe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
  • Location: 44.6488° N, 63.5752° W
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #281 on: October 21, 2019, 01:41:20 PM »

My prediction: Cheryl Gallant will win her riding again, making my vote worthless (though, for the small parties - is it country-wide vote numbers that leads to funding?).

That you took time to vote makes your vote worthwhile, regardless of the outcome.   

scottish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2716
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #282 on: October 21, 2019, 03:37:46 PM »
Your vote won't be wasted.   

As the green party starts getting more votes, it will gradually become more acceptable to traditional voters.    This will take many election cycles, but every journey starts with a first step.

You just need to think longer term than the current election.

snacky

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10872
  • Location: Hoth
  • Forum Dignitary
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #283 on: October 21, 2019, 05:59:29 PM »

Dogastrophe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
  • Location: 44.6488° N, 63.5752° W
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #284 on: October 21, 2019, 06:04:17 PM »
Best election coverage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw92rsSHl7s

Brilliant!  I've been jumping between the talking heads on CTV and Global (for some reason my antenna isn't picking up CBC anymore) and just rolling my eyes at some of the commentary. 

rocketpj

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #285 on: October 21, 2019, 07:21:49 PM »
First time in a long time I've been standing with my ballot in hand and no clue what the best option would be.  I picked one, hopefully I didn't screw it up.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #286 on: October 21, 2019, 10:25:18 PM »
It is weird to me how conservative the prairies have gotten. My parents both grew up out west, and they were both pretty liberal.

If nothing else, this election is an argument to get rid of first past the post and figure out something better.  Surely among all the other methods, we can find one that would work for us.

kenmoremmm

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 717
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #287 on: October 22, 2019, 12:17:40 AM »
with the results now in, does anyone familiar with the immigration policies of canada believe that there will be a marked change from current strategy? my understanding is that canada is currently pro-immigrant. as someone looking to depart the US, but not for another year, the outcome of this election could have significant impact to my thoughts.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #288 on: October 22, 2019, 07:10:41 AM »
with the results now in, does anyone familiar with the immigration policies of canada believe that there will be a marked change from current strategy? my understanding is that canada is currently pro-immigrant. as someone looking to depart the US, but not for another year, the outcome of this election could have significant impact to my thoughts.

You should be ok. The new minority government is the same party as the old majority government. It was the Conservatives and especially the People's Party of Canada that was pushing lower immigration.

However please check to see if you meet immigration requirements. They are quite tough.  Despite the rhetoric floating around, Canada does not have an open border.

Lews Therin

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Magnum Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 3915
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Gatineau
  • Fee-only Financial Planner
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #289 on: October 22, 2019, 08:01:58 AM »
with the results now in, does anyone familiar with the immigration policies of canada believe that there will be a marked change from current strategy? my understanding is that canada is currently pro-immigrant. as someone looking to depart the US, but not for another year, the outcome of this election could have significant impact to my thoughts.

I'd say it skwewed slight more pro-immigrant, as the racist anti immigration party got little to no votes at all. Ndp and green are ok with it, so are liberals (and bloc too, as long as they immigrate outside of QC)

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23248
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #290 on: October 22, 2019, 08:07:47 AM »
If nothing else, this election is an argument to get rid of first past the post and figure out something better.  Surely among all the other methods, we can find one that would work for us.

+1

The results are pretty fucked up.  The conservatives (who got the most votes) are not the party with the most seats.  The green party got 6.5% of the popular vote and 3 seats.  The Bloc got 7.7% of the vote and 32 seats.  The NDP got more votes than the green and bloc together, and ended up with 23 seats.

The system we use for elections is ridiculously flawed.

jambongris

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #291 on: October 22, 2019, 08:57:22 AM »
If nothing else, this election is an argument to get rid of first past the post and figure out something better.  Surely among all the other methods, we can find one that would work for us.

+1

The results are pretty fucked up.  The conservatives (who got the most votes) are not the party with the most seats.  The green party got 6.5% of the popular vote and 3 seats.  The Bloc got 7.7% of the vote and 32 seats.  The NDP got more votes than the green and bloc together, and ended up with 23 seats.

The system we use for elections is ridiculously flawed.

To put it another way, this is how many votes it took each party to win each of their seats:

PartyVotesSeats   Votes/Seat
Liberal  5,911,879    156 37,897   
Conservative  6,152,521    121 50,847   
Bloc  1,377,234 32 43,039
NDP    2,846,219    24 118,592
Green    1,161,746    3 387,249

The Green party needed 10 times as many votes as the Liberal party for each of their seats.

It's hard to feel as if all votes are equal under the current system.

Édit: the table’s formatting looks awful in Tapatalk but looked good on desktop. The key takeaway is that the Liberals needed 37k votes for each of their seats while the Greens needed 387k votes for each of their seats. 
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 09:16:08 AM by jambongris »

Dogastrophe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
  • Location: 44.6488° N, 63.5752° W
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #292 on: October 22, 2019, 09:27:44 AM »
If nothing else, this election is an argument to get rid of first past the post and figure out something better.  Surely among all the other methods, we can find one that would work for us.

+1

The results are pretty fucked up.  The conservatives (who got the most votes) are not the party with the most seats.  The green party got 6.5% of the popular vote and 3 seats.  The Bloc got 7.7% of the vote and 32 seats.  The NDP got more votes than the green and bloc together, and ended up with 23 seats.

The system we use for elections is ridiculously flawed.

If you look on a regional basis it highlights the flaw.

Take PEI for example:

Liberal - 43.6% of votes - 4 seats
Conservatives - 27.4% - no seats
Greens - 20.9% - no seats
NDP - 7.6% - no seats

56.4% of PEI voted for a party / person other than Liberal, yet they are 100% represented by Liberals.  My gut tells me that after the last election, the Liberals realized how much was at stake for loss to the party that they conjured up reasons why the current system was fine.

[edit: me no spel rite :) ]
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 11:02:11 AM by Dogastrophe »

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #293 on: October 22, 2019, 10:14:05 AM »
If nothing else, this election is an argument to get rid of first past the post and figure out something better.  Surely among all the other methods, we can find one that would work for us.

This could be an issue where all the other parties (except maybe the Bloc) get together to push electoral reform.  We can only hope - and write our MPs.  Mine is a re-elected Liberal so not sure how much she would listen.

+1

The results are pretty fucked up.  The conservatives (who got the most votes) are not the party with the most seats.  The green party got 6.5% of the popular vote and 3 seats.  The Bloc got 7.7% of the vote and 32 seats.  The NDP got more votes than the green and bloc together, and ended up with 23 seats.

The system we use for elections is ridiculously flawed.

If you look on a regional basis it highlights the flaw.

Take PEI for example:

Liberal - 43.6% of votes - 4 seats
Conservatives - 27.4% - no seats
Greens - 20.9% - no seats
NDP - 7.6% - no seats

56.4% of PEI voted from a party / person other than Liberal, yet they are 100% represented by Liberals.  My gut tells me that after the last election, the Liberals realized how much was at stake for loss to the party that they conjured up reasons why the current system was fine.

scottish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2716
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #294 on: October 22, 2019, 03:33:48 PM »
What do you folks think the results should have been (based on the popular vote)?

jambongris

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #295 on: October 22, 2019, 04:10:25 PM »
My preference is for some sort of mixed-member proportional. I think a lot of people would have voted differently under such a system though so I’m not sure how to answer the question.

The number of seats appear to be properly distributed given the voting system in place for the election.

As much as I dislike the current system this is how it is meant to work.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #296 on: October 22, 2019, 04:24:29 PM »
My preference is for some sort of mixed-member proportional. I think a lot of people would have voted differently under such a system though so I’m not sure how to answer the question.

The number of seats appear to be properly distributed given the voting system in place for the election.

As much as I dislike the current system this is how it is meant to work.

I know a lot of people for whom this is true.  Including me, both for this election and the most recent provincial election.

snacky

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10872
  • Location: Hoth
  • Forum Dignitary
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #297 on: October 22, 2019, 05:34:31 PM »
The unfairness of our electoral system would sting less if we hadn't been promised electoral reform 4 years ago.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23248
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #298 on: October 22, 2019, 07:45:22 PM »
The unfairness of our electoral system would sting less if we hadn't been promised electoral reform 4 years ago.

Yep.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20809
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Canadian Politics - 2019 Election
« Reply #299 on: October 22, 2019, 07:49:00 PM »
The unfairness of our electoral system would sting less if we hadn't been promised electoral reform 4 years ago.

Yep.

Definitely.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!