Author Topic: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?  (Read 3973 times)

The Fake Cheap

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Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« on: October 18, 2018, 06:32:00 PM »
Just interested to hear people's thoughts. 

What has legalization been like in your state?

Will to try it now that it is legal?  Or buy from pot shops now that it is legal?

sixwings

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 07:43:48 PM »
Marijuana is the next frontier of food, beverage and smokes. There's no phillips morris or anheuser busch of marjuana yet, but someone will and there's a lot of money to be made there.

In 50 years we're going to look back at criminalization like we look back at prohibition and say "that was dumb".

Johnez

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 07:46:22 PM »
Seems states here in America are trending toward legalization as well. I think it's fine except for walking past clouds of smoke at random public places. Just waiting for DUI stats to catch up. I was never for legalization, but more for decriminalization. The crap is a nuisance as far as I'm concerned and frankly I wished people would fight half as hard for safe park and neighborhoods.

maizeman

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 08:40:22 PM »
I was reading an article a couple of days ago that suggested recreational legalization in CA this year was generating a lot less revenue than expected because so many people were continuing to buy through illegal channels instead.* I'll be interested to see in Canada hits the same problem or not.

When I was down in Australia, it sounded like a lot of their medical market is being run by companies based in Canada because it's a lot easier to raise money for marijuana companies up there. Legalization is clearly coming to most of the globe in coming years so the Canadian companies may have a big head start at becoming the anheuser busches and phillips morrises.

On a personal level I do think it's a good thing. The places I've lived where a lot of people smoked I've noticed less drinking, particularly to excess. If you're the sort of person (or are living the sort of life) where you need to escape your problems chemically on a regular basis, THC seems a lot less destructive to the folks around you than EtOH.

*Source; https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/world/canada/marijuana-canada-legalization.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article&region=Footer

FIRE Artist

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2018, 09:02:30 PM »
I was reading an article a couple of days ago that suggested recreational legalization in CA this year was generating a lot less revenue than expected because so many people were continuing to buy through illegal channels instead.* I'll be interested to see in Canada hits the same problem or not.

At best the estimates to offset the black market are 25-50% in year 1, this is due to supply stream issues expected to have continued shortages, driving up prices of legal pot.

It has been said that revenues from taxes are not expected to be huge; the cost benefit to society will be in not having to police it, and not having to incarcerate people for petty possession.

Since you can grow up to 4 plants at home, I would expect that habitual users will eventually go that route. I see a future where you can purchase pot plants like tomato plants.

PoutineLover

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 09:27:09 PM »
I'm in Canada, would have been a lot more excited about this a few years ago but I still think it's interesting. Going to check out one of the new stores tomorrow, I can report back. Honestly don't think it'll be that different, we've been able to smoke in public, buy it in stores and order online for the past few years anyway. I am glad that people with stupid criminal records will be able to get them cleaned up, I've never understood why it was criminalized in the first place and it was often used to target minorities, so that's one positive.

sixwings

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 10:35:26 PM »

It has been said that revenues from taxes are not expected to be huge; the cost benefit to society will be in not having to police it, and not having to incarcerate people for petty possession.


My wife is a lawyer with the canadian DOJ and I thought the same thing for a while however the DOJ is actually expecting to have more trials related to marijuana. Before the laws were so grey that no one really bothered enforcing it but now that there's clear laws and rules the DOJ is expecting trials to increase as the rules will actually have to be enforced. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Mrs.Piano

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2018, 03:30:09 AM »
Mr. Piano and I don’t drink alcohol or use any drugs, so we don’t plan to change anything about our lives because of this law. I personally also feel that alcohol and marijuana are both against my religion and will continue to try to avoid situations where others are consuming same, even if legal.

MrOnyx

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2018, 04:01:53 AM »
I've never smoked pot and I never intend to. I don't need it, don't desire it, and expect that getting high would just exacerbate my occasional underlying mild anxieties.

That said, I'm all for legalisation/decriminalisation. I only ever hear about how it's far less damaging to a person than alcohol, so I'd rather a friend smoke occasional weed than destroy their liver on copious amounts of alcohol. I seem to recall hearing a story of someone setting a challenge to someone important in starting the drug war. Something like 'if I smoke one roll-up of weed for every bottle of booze you drink, you'll die first,' something along those lines. I mean I rarely drink either, so my life would be unaffected if it were legalised here in Blighty; I'd continue to just not intoxicate myself. Yes, I'd find it annoying to get the occasional whiff of it when I'm out and about because I do not like the smell of it, but that same sentiment is still true for tobacco and alcohol (in a person's breath), so I guess it wouldn't make a huge difference to me.

I support this because the war on drugs is costly, pointless, ineffective and only ever demonises, criminalises and stigmatises victims of addiction rather than treating or helping them. I'm not saying I expect this to automatically pave the way to a new attitude towards drug users of all stripes, but it certainly opens a door.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2018, 06:27:35 AM »
I've never used pot, and it's not legal in my state (nor expected to be so anytime soon). But I support legalization/decriminalization. Good for Canada for being ahead of the US on this issue. I wouldn't mind giving it a try if it's ever legal for me to do so. Why not? But I'm not ever going to be a habitual user.

nkt0

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2018, 06:39:05 AM »
I've never tried it (or any illegal drugs), but i fully support decriminalization of all illegal drugs, expansion of treatment, regulation of distribution, and safe use sites. We also need to give people real options to not pursue the escape of drugs, but at the end of the day, many will, many of those will become addicted, and many of those will never recover. We need to minimize the damage this causes to our society and treat people with respect and dignity.

Dabnasty

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2018, 07:14:36 AM »
Seems states here in America are trending toward legalization as well. I think it's fine except for walking past clouds of smoke at random public places. Just waiting for DUI stats to catch up. I was never for legalization, but more for decriminalization. The crap is a nuisance as far as I'm concerned and frankly I wished people would fight half as hard for safe park and neighborhoods.

Good news, legalization/decriminalization should go a long way in making certain areas safer. Of course this won't apply to every unsafe park or neighborhood, but it would potentially remove a significant revenue stream for criminal organizations. This will take time, as maizeman mentioned people will keep buying from illegal sources as pricing and supply chains get figured out. Plus there are still plenty of other lucrative contraband to be sold but I think weed is the place to start as it really is quite harmless for most users. From there, I support the decriminalization of most if not all drugs.

In addition to that, and I don't have statistics to back this up, but it seems very logical that sending people to jail for drug use has a net negative impact on safety of our public places. First, people who use drugs but wouldn't otherwise break the law are now in a position where they know they're already breaking the law so making the leap to theft or other small crimes doesn't seem like as big of deal*. Then consider those who do time for multiple drug offenses. We're taking someone who just wants to use drugs and putting them in a cage with a bunch of legitimate criminals.

*Maybe it is a gateway drug? Just not in the way they taught us in school.

GuitarStv

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2018, 08:37:39 AM »
I don't (and never did) smoke weed, but am all for legalization.  It's nice to have revenue from a substance less addictive than tobacco and alcohol rather than funding gangs and criminals.  It's nice to have legal and quality controlled substance available rather than whatever QC a man on the corner performs.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2018, 08:57:44 AM »
I don't smoke tobacco, so I won't be trying pot, but I also thought the criminalization was stupid.  DUI is DUI whether the influence is alcohol, pot, or OTC drugs that affect decision making, like some antihistamines and muscle relaxants.

And as GuitarSTV says, better quality control.  Just like I won't be drinking methanol from my local liquor store.

Chris22

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2018, 09:02:22 AM »
Two thoughts:

1.  There are other ways to consume pot that aren't smoking (mostly eating) that removes a lot of the health concerns about Pot from a lung-cancer POV, as well as the second hand effects.

2.  The comparison to alcohol is interesting.  On one hand, yes, alcohol is potentially more addictive and can cause more problems.  On the other, it is a lot easier to consume alcohol and not be inebriated than with pot.  I can sit on my patio and grill drinking one beer with essentially zero inebriating effects from the alcohol.  It is difficult to consume any amount of pot and not experience inebriating effects.  And there's really no "recreational/social" pot use; I can drink 1 beer and not be inebriated, but what am I going to do, eat 1/4th of a gummy and not feel the pot effects?  I mean, yeah, I could, but why, there's no social aspect to that.  Unlike drinking a beer or two slowly to prevent intoxication, there's no real reason to slowly consume pot to prevent intoxication; intoxication is the point. 

Just some thoughts.

Norioch

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2018, 09:04:20 AM »
Way to go, Canada! Now let's legalize it at the federal level here in the US. What's taking so long?

GuitarStv

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2018, 09:19:53 AM »
2.  The comparison to alcohol is interesting.  On one hand, yes, alcohol is potentially more addictive and can cause more problems.  On the other, it is a lot easier to consume alcohol and not be inebriated than with pot.  I can sit on my patio and grill drinking one beer with essentially zero inebriating effects from the alcohol.  It is difficult to consume any amount of pot and not experience inebriating effects.  And there's really no "recreational/social" pot use; I can drink 1 beer and not be inebriated, but what am I going to do, eat 1/4th of a gummy and not feel the pot effects?  I mean, yeah, I could, but why, there's no social aspect to that.  Unlike drinking a beer or two slowly to prevent intoxication, there's no real reason to slowly consume pot to prevent intoxication; intoxication is the point. 

Just some thoughts.

I kinda disagree with your argument about intoxication.  I don't see why anyone who would have a beer at the end of a day to take the edge off wouldn't be able to do the same with weed.  http://nationalpainreport.com/how-to-use-medical-marijuana-without-getting-high-8828730.html - it's certainly possible to use pot without getting high, just as it's possible to have a drink without getting drunk.

Your argument that you can drink alchohol without being effected by it is incorrect.  Even small amounts of booze have a large impact on the nervous system.  You might be able to walk a straight line, but the way you think and process emotions, and react to things that happen around you is quite different - this is a well studied topic and even levels as low as .02% produce measurable changes (https://www.alcohol.org/effects/blood-alcohol-concentration/) . . .  and your BAC is .02 or higher if you're a man under 240 lbs who has one beer:

Chris22

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2018, 09:39:58 AM »
2.  The comparison to alcohol is interesting.  On one hand, yes, alcohol is potentially more addictive and can cause more problems.  On the other, it is a lot easier to consume alcohol and not be inebriated than with pot.  I can sit on my patio and grill drinking one beer with essentially zero inebriating effects from the alcohol.  It is difficult to consume any amount of pot and not experience inebriating effects.  And there's really no "recreational/social" pot use; I can drink 1 beer and not be inebriated, but what am I going to do, eat 1/4th of a gummy and not feel the pot effects?  I mean, yeah, I could, but why, there's no social aspect to that.  Unlike drinking a beer or two slowly to prevent intoxication, there's no real reason to slowly consume pot to prevent intoxication; intoxication is the point. 

Just some thoughts.

I kinda disagree with your argument about intoxication.  I don't see why anyone who would have a beer at the end of a day to take the edge off wouldn't be able to do the same with weed.

I guess I come at it from two points, I don't use a single beer to "take the edge off", I drink it because I like the taste.  As a sizable guy who is an experienced drinker, who usually drinks with food, I can drink a single beer with zero intoxicating effects.  There's also a ritual to it, grab a beer from the outside fridge, fire up the grill, sit on the patio and enjoy.  My other point is, "if I was going to use pot" (it's not legal here) I'd eat it.  There's no ritual to doing all of the above and eating a 1/4 of a gummy instead of the beer.  I wouldn't have "a quarter gummy and a burger" like I would with a beer.  Maybe someone would enjoy that, but I can't really imagine it.  Would be like sitting down to eat a single M&M.


Quote
Your argument that you can drink alchohol without being effected by it is incorrect.  Even small amounts of booze have a large impact on the nervous system.  You might be able to walk a straight line, but the way you think and process emotions, and react to things that happen around you is quite different - this is a well studied topic and even levels as low as .02% produce measurable changes

We may have to agree to disagree here.  I guarantee I can consume one beer or one glass of wine and not register a change in my BAC.  Understand that's not true for everyone, but it's true for me. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2018, 10:13:37 AM »
2.  The comparison to alcohol is interesting.  On one hand, yes, alcohol is potentially more addictive and can cause more problems.  On the other, it is a lot easier to consume alcohol and not be inebriated than with pot.  I can sit on my patio and grill drinking one beer with essentially zero inebriating effects from the alcohol.  It is difficult to consume any amount of pot and not experience inebriating effects.  And there's really no "recreational/social" pot use; I can drink 1 beer and not be inebriated, but what am I going to do, eat 1/4th of a gummy and not feel the pot effects?  I mean, yeah, I could, but why, there's no social aspect to that.  Unlike drinking a beer or two slowly to prevent intoxication, there's no real reason to slowly consume pot to prevent intoxication; intoxication is the point. 

Just some thoughts.

I kinda disagree with your argument about intoxication.  I don't see why anyone who would have a beer at the end of a day to take the edge off wouldn't be able to do the same with weed.

I guess I come at it from two points, I don't use a single beer to "take the edge off", I drink it because I like the taste.  As a sizable guy who is an experienced drinker, who usually drinks with food, I can drink a single beer with zero intoxicating effects.  There's also a ritual to it, grab a beer from the outside fridge, fire up the grill, sit on the patio and enjoy.  My other point is, "if I was going to use pot" (it's not legal here) I'd eat it.  There's no ritual to doing all of the above and eating a 1/4 of a gummy instead of the beer.  I wouldn't have "a quarter gummy and a burger" like I would with a beer.  Maybe someone would enjoy that, but I can't really imagine it.  Would be like sitting down to eat a single M&M.

I'm not sure I follow this reasoning.

There's also a ritual to it, grab a INSERT PRODUCT from the PRODUCT RECEPTACLE, fire up the grill, sit on the patio and enjoy.

That entire ritual can be replicated with literally anything . . . from enjoying a fine pair of socks, to the company of a child, to weed.  If you want ritual, smoking weed (be it rolling a spliff or firing up a bong) has a lot more opportunity for that than pouring a drink in a glass.  You also seem fixated on a quarter of a gummy bear . . . when you can cook the oil into literally anything in literally any quantity.  Your burger off the grill could be the thing that gets you high instead of the beer.

ketchup

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2018, 10:41:12 AM »
Definitely good news.  The rest of the US should follow soon, but it might take longer in certain areas.

Legalizing it is a no-brainer when you objectively compare it to things that are legal (alcohol and tobacco).

Chris22

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2018, 10:44:51 AM »
2.  The comparison to alcohol is interesting.  On one hand, yes, alcohol is potentially more addictive and can cause more problems.  On the other, it is a lot easier to consume alcohol and not be inebriated than with pot.  I can sit on my patio and grill drinking one beer with essentially zero inebriating effects from the alcohol.  It is difficult to consume any amount of pot and not experience inebriating effects.  And there's really no "recreational/social" pot use; I can drink 1 beer and not be inebriated, but what am I going to do, eat 1/4th of a gummy and not feel the pot effects?  I mean, yeah, I could, but why, there's no social aspect to that.  Unlike drinking a beer or two slowly to prevent intoxication, there's no real reason to slowly consume pot to prevent intoxication; intoxication is the point. 

Just some thoughts.

I kinda disagree with your argument about intoxication.  I don't see why anyone who would have a beer at the end of a day to take the edge off wouldn't be able to do the same with weed.

I guess I come at it from two points, I don't use a single beer to "take the edge off", I drink it because I like the taste.  As a sizable guy who is an experienced drinker, who usually drinks with food, I can drink a single beer with zero intoxicating effects.  There's also a ritual to it, grab a beer from the outside fridge, fire up the grill, sit on the patio and enjoy.  My other point is, "if I was going to use pot" (it's not legal here) I'd eat it.  There's no ritual to doing all of the above and eating a 1/4 of a gummy instead of the beer.  I wouldn't have "a quarter gummy and a burger" like I would with a beer.  Maybe someone would enjoy that, but I can't really imagine it.  Would be like sitting down to eat a single M&M.

I'm not sure I follow this reasoning.

There's also a ritual to it, grab a INSERT PRODUCT from the PRODUCT RECEPTACLE, fire up the grill, sit on the patio and enjoy.

That entire ritual can be replicated with literally anything . . . from enjoying a fine pair of socks, to the company of a child, to weed.  If you want ritual, smoking weed (be it rolling a spliff or firing up a bong) has a lot more opportunity for that than pouring a drink in a glass.

I don't like to smoke, anything outside of maybe a cigar once a year.  That is where most of the health hazards come in, through smoking.  I had childhood asthma so I avoid smoking.

Quote
You also seem fixated on a quarter of a gummy bear . . . when you can cook the oil into literally anything in literally any quantity.  Your burger off the grill could be the thing that gets you high instead of the beer.

I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing.  That was the whole point, to enjoy the ritual and AVOID the high.  You gave me a way to get the high and avoid the ritual.  I'm not really sure why. 

Johnez

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2018, 10:45:14 AM »
Seems states here in America are trending toward legalization as well. I think it's fine except for walking past clouds of smoke at random public places. Just waiting for DUI stats to catch up. I was never for legalization, but more for decriminalization. The crap is a nuisance as far as I'm concerned and frankly I wished people would fight half as hard for safe park and neighborhoods.

Good news, legalization/decriminalization should go a long way in making certain areas safer. Of course this won't apply to every unsafe park or neighborhood, but it would potentially remove a significant revenue stream for criminal organizations. This will take time, as maizeman mentioned people will keep buying from illegal sources as pricing and supply chains get figured out. Plus there are still plenty of other lucrative contraband to be sold but I think weed is the place to start as it really is quite harmless for most users. From there, I support the decriminalization of most if not all drugs.

In addition to that, and I don't have statistics to back this up, but it seems very logical that sending people to jail for drug use has a net negative impact on safety of our public places. First, people who use drugs but wouldn't otherwise break the law are now in a position where they know they're already breaking the law so making the leap to theft or other small crimes doesn't seem like as big of deal*. Then consider those who do time for multiple drug offenses. We're taking someone who just wants to use drugs and putting them in a cage with a bunch of legitimate criminals.

*Maybe it is a gateway drug? Just not in the way they taught us in school.

Good point about the gateway being the jail, rather than the drug. I actually never thought of that, and I hope decriminalization spreads. As far as I'm concerned, anything done privately (even heroin or crack) should be legal. It's the roving addicts and dealers on streets that present public nuisance though. As a kid growing up in the ghetto finding needles and crack pipes was common. Addiction to drugs (yes, including alcohol) leads to other problems for the public though which I'm not sure there are any real solutions for. The depressed areas in mid-America suffering from opioid addiction and ODs everywhere is a problem that isn't being contained by anything we have in place currently. Addicts cycle through treatment, some with kids (just read a very moving obit today...). I hope the removal of stigma and emphasis on treatment can reverse the trends here, the shame should be attached to people making bad decisions (such as DUI), not using the drug itself.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2018, 10:48:19 AM »
We may have to agree to disagree here.  I guarantee I can consume one beer or one glass of wine and not register a change in my BAC.  Understand that's not true for everyone, but it's true for me.

Have you tested this? If so are you using a breathalyzer (not really accurate below BAC 0.03-0.04) or a blood test? Because yes, it would defy everything I understand about biology if you could consume any amount of ethanol and have absolutely zero show up in your bloodstream.

Now we can argue about how significantly the blood alcohol from a single beer effects your behavior or reasoning, but it certainly does get into your bloodstream. And as comparatively benign as ethanol is, it's still not a great thing for your body to be metabolizing if it doesn't need to, so I would argue that if pot smokers are less likely to consume THC except when they actually want the effects of THC, that's a positive rather than a negative relative to ethanol.

bacchi

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2018, 11:33:09 AM »
We may have to agree to disagree here.  I guarantee I can consume one beer or one glass of wine and not register a change in my BAC.  Understand that's not true for everyone, but it's true for me.

Have you tested this? If so are you using a breathalyzer (not really accurate below BAC 0.03-0.04) or a blood test? Because yes, it would defy everything I understand about biology if you could consume any amount of ethanol and have absolutely zero show up in your bloodstream.

Maybe he's a Bender robot?

GuitarStv

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2018, 11:45:47 AM »
2.  The comparison to alcohol is interesting.  On one hand, yes, alcohol is potentially more addictive and can cause more problems.  On the other, it is a lot easier to consume alcohol and not be inebriated than with pot.  I can sit on my patio and grill drinking one beer with essentially zero inebriating effects from the alcohol.  It is difficult to consume any amount of pot and not experience inebriating effects.  And there's really no "recreational/social" pot use; I can drink 1 beer and not be inebriated, but what am I going to do, eat 1/4th of a gummy and not feel the pot effects?  I mean, yeah, I could, but why, there's no social aspect to that.  Unlike drinking a beer or two slowly to prevent intoxication, there's no real reason to slowly consume pot to prevent intoxication; intoxication is the point. 

Just some thoughts.

I kinda disagree with your argument about intoxication.  I don't see why anyone who would have a beer at the end of a day to take the edge off wouldn't be able to do the same with weed.

I guess I come at it from two points, I don't use a single beer to "take the edge off", I drink it because I like the taste.  As a sizable guy who is an experienced drinker, who usually drinks with food, I can drink a single beer with zero intoxicating effects.  There's also a ritual to it, grab a beer from the outside fridge, fire up the grill, sit on the patio and enjoy.  My other point is, "if I was going to use pot" (it's not legal here) I'd eat it.  There's no ritual to doing all of the above and eating a 1/4 of a gummy instead of the beer.  I wouldn't have "a quarter gummy and a burger" like I would with a beer.  Maybe someone would enjoy that, but I can't really imagine it.  Would be like sitting down to eat a single M&M.

I'm not sure I follow this reasoning.

There's also a ritual to it, grab a INSERT PRODUCT from the PRODUCT RECEPTACLE, fire up the grill, sit on the patio and enjoy.

That entire ritual can be replicated with literally anything . . . from enjoying a fine pair of socks, to the company of a child, to weed.  If you want ritual, smoking weed (be it rolling a spliff or firing up a bong) has a lot more opportunity for that than pouring a drink in a glass.

I don't like to smoke, anything outside of maybe a cigar once a year.  That is where most of the health hazards come in, through smoking.  I had childhood asthma so I avoid smoking.

Quote
You also seem fixated on a quarter of a gummy bear . . . when you can cook the oil into literally anything in literally any quantity.  Your burger off the grill could be the thing that gets you high instead of the beer.

I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing.  That was the whole point, to enjoy the ritual and AVOID the high.  You gave me a way to get the high and avoid the ritual.  I'm not really sure why.

Mea culpa.  I forgot that we were pretending that alcohol has no physiological effects when you personally consume it in quantities that don't cause total inebriation.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2018, 11:51:06 AM »
It's been (de facto) legal here in Oregon for a while.

I don't do intoxicants at all any more. Smoked a few times forty some years ago to establish my trustworthiness (there was a silly idea going around that FBI agents wouldn't smoke, so you could be sure people weren't informers, or infiltrators of antiwar groups, by sitting around and smoking dope with them... yeah, we were all brilliant.)

But anyway -- weed all over the place in public here, now, and I don't think anyone much is the worse for it. If it wasn't weed it would be alcohol, which is far more addictive and destructive. If you give me the choice of walking past a bunch of teenagers who are drunk, and a bunch who are stoned, I'll take the stoned ones every time. Dull-witted is better than belligerent.

EvenSteven

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2018, 12:21:36 PM »
Quote
It's been (de facto) legal here in Oregon for a while.

Oregon is probably better than many other places, but it still looks like there where around 13,000 arrests or citations per year in Oregon. I wouldn't call that de facto legal.

Kris

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2018, 01:09:22 PM »
We may have to agree to disagree here.  I guarantee I can consume one beer or one glass of wine and not register a change in my BAC.  Understand that's not true for everyone, but it's true for me.

Have you tested this? If so are you using a breathalyzer (not really accurate below BAC 0.03-0.04) or a blood test? Because yes, it would defy everything I understand about biology if you could consume any amount of ethanol and have absolutely zero show up in your bloodstream.

Now we can argue about how significantly the blood alcohol from a single beer effects your behavior or reasoning, but it certainly does get into your bloodstream. And as comparatively benign as ethanol is, it's still not a great thing for your body to be metabolizing if it doesn't need to, so I would argue that if pot smokers are less likely to consume THC except when they actually want the effects of THC, that's a positive rather than a negative relative to ethanol.

Exactly this. Frankly, Chris's assertion above is somewhat ridiculous, if he is actually saying what... he is actually saying.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2018, 01:48:00 PM »
I was reading an article a couple of days ago that suggested recreational legalization in CA this year was generating a lot less revenue than expected because so many people were continuing to buy through illegal channels instead.


I live in the mountains of California.

Not far from where I live there is a small pot farm.

When I walk to my mailbox, that's ~ 1 mile from my house,  I can smell the pot as it cures; it smells like a skunk.

I don't understand  why a recreational  smoker would buy pot if the law  permits them to grow a small amount for their personal use.


GuitarStv

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2018, 01:56:46 PM »
I was reading an article a couple of days ago that suggested recreational legalization in CA this year was generating a lot less revenue than expected because so many people were continuing to buy through illegal channels instead.


I live in the mountains of California.

Not far from where I live there is a small pot farm.

When I walk to my mailbox, that's ~ 1 mile from my house,  I can smell the pot as it cures; it smells like a skunk.

I don't understand  why a recreational  smoker would buy pot if the law  permits them to grow a small amount for their personal use.

Aren't all users recreational smokers?  Is there a pro league of pot somewhere that I haven't heard about?  :P


That aside, I'm guessing that people would do it for the same reason that they pay others to work on their car, or grow their food.  Convenience and ease.

Kris

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2018, 01:57:20 PM »
I was reading an article a couple of days ago that suggested recreational legalization in CA this year was generating a lot less revenue than expected because so many people were continuing to buy through illegal channels instead.


I live in the mountains of California.

Not far from where I live there is a small pot farm.

When I walk to my mailbox, that's ~ 1 mile from my house,  I can smell the pot as it cures; it smells like a skunk.

I don't understand  why a recreational  smoker would buy pot if the law  permits them to grow a small amount for their personal use.

Well, I suppose not everyone has a green thumb, or the inclination to tend plants to make them produce bud of a good enough quality.

maizeman

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2018, 02:00:10 PM »
I was reading an article a couple of days ago that suggested recreational legalization in CA this year was generating a lot less revenue than expected because so many people were continuing to buy through illegal channels instead.


I live in the mountains of California.

Not far from where I live there is a small pot farm.

When I walk to my mailbox, that's ~ 1 mile from my house,  I can smell the pot as it cures; it smells like a skunk.

I don't understand  why a recreational  smoker would buy pot if the law  permits them to grow a small amount for their personal use.

Aren't all users recreational smokers?  Is there a pro league of pot somewhere that I haven't heard about?  :P


That aside, I'm guessing that people would do it for the same reason that they pay others to work on their car, or grow their food.  Convenience and ease.

In this context I believe the distinction is recreational vs medicinal.

But yes, I agree that for pretty much anything people purchase they COULD grow/cook/build their own. It's just a question of whether the cost savings are worth both the extra effort of doing it + the extra effort of learning how.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2018, 02:18:40 PM »
I was reading an article a couple of days ago that suggested recreational legalization in CA this year was generating a lot less revenue than expected because so many people were continuing to buy through illegal channels instead.


I live in the mountains of California.

Not far from where I live there is a small pot farm.

When I walk to my mailbox, that's ~ 1 mile from my house,  I can smell the pot as it cures; it smells like a skunk.

I don't understand  why a recreational  smoker would buy pot if the law  permits them to grow a small amount for their personal use.

Aren't all users recreational smokers?  Is there a pro league of pot somewhere that I haven't heard about?  :P


That aside, I'm guessing that people would do it for the same reason that they pay others to work on their car, or grow their food.  Convenience and ease.

I think that some who need to  smoke it for its palliative effects must have a special blend or type ("pharmaceutical marijuana") if it is to be efficacious.

simonsez

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2018, 02:30:56 PM »
Excellent, to each their own.

Been a long week, looking forward to Miles Davis on the vinyl with half a gummy and a glass of cabernet this evening.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2018, 04:28:06 PM »
As a teen I did smoke pot, hated it...got far too paranoid.  Now, many moons later I am happy for the  legalization.  I won’t likely have any and no desire to drop by the only government run store in our province (right in my hometown) except to maybe gain an education.  With 80+ strains, oils...oh my, sprays...I feel i need to know what it’s all about.
Edibles are not legal here yet, they say another year.
I have always worried about what users are buying on the streets.  I am happy that people have a controlled place to purchase something they were going to smoke anyways.
Wish it had been legal when my dad was alive. His final years were stressful and painful...some of these strains could well have helped him deal with his situation.  From what I understand some strains (less thc) help with mood regulation rather than the “high” provided by THC.

Here the lineups were big for the first two days.  The store is quite amazing (from the pictures I have seen).  First purchase was by an American who s a grower and he was thrilled to see his product in the store.


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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2018, 04:31:39 PM »
Quote
It's been (de facto) legal here in Oregon for a while.

Oregon is probably better than many other places, but it still looks like there where around 13,000 arrests or citations per year in Oregon. I wouldn't call that de facto legal.

Umm.... I'm going by the fact that I pass by a dozen pot shops on my way to work, some of which advertise on billboards? (By "de facto" I was referring to the Feds not being on board. I don't know where you get your 13,000 arrests from, but it might be outdated.)

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2018, 05:17:35 PM »
I'm not thrilled about it. I don't think people should go to jail over weed, but at the same time, I just really hate the smell and culture of it. I could very happily live somewhere like Singapore, which has very strict drug laws.

EvenSteven

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2018, 05:43:46 PM »
Quote
Umm.... I'm going by the fact that I pass by a dozen pot shops on my way to work, some of which advertise on billboards? (By "de facto" I was referring to the Feds not being on board. I don't know where you get your 13,000 arrests from, but it might be outdated.)

You're right, I was looking at 2014.

thriftycanuck

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2018, 06:11:58 PM »
Don't smoke it myself, but pro legalizing it + taxing it + regulating it.  Like it is....

It makes sense.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2018, 06:54:36 PM »
It will be on the ballot in Michigan next month.  It is expected to pass and become legal.

Seems like the law has ruined a lot of lives for little harm too oneself, others or society.  Yeh - make it legal.

I can eat some really good brownies when I retire.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2018, 07:20:42 PM »
Once again, Canada leads. IMO the US should fully legalize, regulate and streamline cultivation and distribution and make the $$ part easier for growers who can be taxed federally as well as locally. Making it legal helps eliminate the stupid criminal factor and reduces the environmental degradation from illegal outdoor grows. Not to mention freeing up law enforcement and jail space for real, actual crimes.

On a personal note, I'm happy to take a few puffs off a vape pen, the cartridges for which I buy legally in Californiia or from a bud gifted from a friend at night, in the privacy of my own backyard hot tub without some "concerned" neighbor turning me into CPS.

scottish

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2018, 06:56:45 AM »
From what I remember in high school, pot has an annoying tendency to come back a few days or weeks later.    I haven't smoked any since about 1981, and I won't start again.

Personally I think recreational drug use is nuts.    However I like craft beer so I have ongoing cognitive dissonance over this.

Time will tell whether legalization is a good thing or not.    I have to wonder how making more intoxicants available can be good for society... 

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2018, 07:46:38 AM »
Can't wait for all of America to follow suit.
I don't smoke it myself and most likely never will but I know many who do.  Also know many gardeners who will love to grow their own.  Seems like a great in sourcing opportunity and to align quite well with mmm values.  (Even better than making crappy fermented cider from the big jars of juice ).

Does anyone know how employers that drug test are responding?  It's always been terrible that pot is the drug that can be detected for weeks after consumption while most other, and far more hard core, drugs are out of your system fairly quickly and will not show up in a drug test.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2018, 08:11:20 AM »
I was for decriminalization, not so much for legalization.

I’m concerned about how many people pay attention to the broadstroke of any law and fail to learn and abide by the details. Newspaper reported that the first weed-related fine was issued an hour after it became legal. Many will not know that admitting at the border to using pot can result in their being banned from travel in the US permanently (or until the US changes this).

Quality control is near-useless if consumers aren’t also carefully informed about the impact of each option, any risks, their personal biological vulnerability, etc.

Some people are protected from themselves by a thing being illegal (example: my child is very literal and won’t break rules...but that same brain faces big risks with the most commonly available forms of pot... I know, I know, I talk with him about the details too, but it did feel easier to communicate with the “back up” of law.)

I absolutely believe in education over law...but until we’re doing the education part, I’d prefer we’d gone with decriminalization.

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2018, 08:53:52 AM »
The new Quebec premier is now discussing making it illegal to smoke in public, and landlords are allowed to ban it in their buildings. So it's possible that with those changes, the same marginalized people from before (homeless, minorities, lower income renters) will be criminalized despite legalization. There won't be anywhere they can actually smoke it. Of course the premier won't allow cannabis cafés either. It's not really legal if only home owners can smoke..

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2018, 11:30:19 AM »
Time will tell whether legalization is a good thing or not.    I have to wonder how making more intoxicants available can be good for society...

Yes, time will tell I suppose, but availability isn't really the issue. Most anyone who wants weed can get some weed.

As for it being good for society, the most basic argument would be to look at how well prohibition worked out. Current laws cause a lot of the same problems that prohibition in the US did like providing money to organized crime and not allowing for oversight and regulation of sales. Beyond that I would say read through the previous comments. Good arguments have already been made to answer this question. If you disagree with the reasoning, let us know why and I or the original poster can further the discussion.

maizeman

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2018, 12:42:55 PM »
Time will tell whether legalization is a good thing or not.    I have to wonder how making more intoxicants available can be good for society...

I guess the question is whether making more of the currently available intoxicants legal will increase the total amount of time people spend intoxicated or not. My guess is that we won't see a huge shift, and most of the time spent smoking pot by the population as a whole would either already have happened illegally, be substitution away from alcohol, or substitution away from intoxicants that remain illegal (not sure how big that last slice is, but it's probably not absolutely zero).

But I could well be wrong. Does anyone know if there are any studies from Colorado or Washington on this question?

scottish

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2018, 09:36:47 AM »
Time will tell whether legalization is a good thing or not.    I have to wonder how making more intoxicants available can be good for society...

I guess the question is whether making more of the currently available intoxicants legal will increase the total amount of time people spend intoxicated or not. My guess is that we won't see a huge shift, and most of the time spent smoking pot by the population as a whole would either already have happened illegally, be substitution away from alcohol, or substitution away from intoxicants that remain illegal (not sure how big that last slice is, but it's probably not absolutely zero).

But I could well be wrong. Does anyone know if there are any studies from Colorado or Washington on this question?

Time will tell whether legalization is a good thing or not.    I have to wonder how making more intoxicants available can be good for society...

Yes, time will tell I suppose, but availability isn't really the issue. Most anyone who wants weed can get some weed.

As for it being good for society, the most basic argument would be to look at how well prohibition worked out. Current laws cause a lot of the same problems that prohibition in the US did like providing money to organized crime and not allowing for oversight and regulation of sales. Beyond that I would say read through the previous comments. Good arguments have already been made to answer this question. If you disagree with the reasoning, let us know why and I or the original poster can further the discussion.



I didn't see any particularly good arguments one way or the other in the thread.    Just opinions.   Your points aren't invalid, but you guys are treating it like it's a zero-sum game.    Arguing that nothing will change is a little disingenuous.

Look at tobacco.   It's no longer socially acceptable.    The health costs to society of tobacco use have been steadily declining.

Tobacco causes lung cancer.   Marijuana makes you fat dumb and happy.   The happy part is great, fat and dumb not so much.

Personally I'd prefer to see drugs like marijuana become socially ostracized rather than socially acceptable.   Legalization is a huge step towards social acceptance.

maizeman

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2018, 09:46:03 AM »
I guess the question is whether making more of the currently available intoxicants legal will increase the total amount of time people spend intoxicated or not. My guess is that we won't see a huge shift, and most of the time spent smoking pot by the population as a whole would either already have happened illegally, be substitution away from alcohol, or substitution away from intoxicants that remain illegal (not sure how big that last slice is, but it's probably not absolutely zero).

But I could well be wrong. Does anyone know if there are any studies from Colorado or Washington on this question?
I didn't see any particularly good arguments one way or the other in the thread.    Just opinions.   Your points aren't invalid, but you guys are treating it like it's a zero-sum game.    Arguing that nothing will change is a little disingenuous.

I think accusing someone one being disingenuous for making a prediction, acknowledging it could be wrong, and inquiring whether anyone has any actual data or studied to support or contradict the prediction indicates that you are not interested in discussing this topic in good faith.

So I guess there is no point in us speaking further.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Canada leaglizes marijuana, what does everyone think?
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2018, 09:55:55 AM »
Look at tobacco.   It's no longer socially acceptable.    The health costs to society of tobacco use have been steadily declining.

Tobacco causes lung cancer.   Marijuana makes you fat dumb and happy.   The happy part is great, fat and dumb not so much.

Personally I'd prefer to see drugs like marijuana become socially ostracized rather than socially acceptable.   Legalization is a huge step towards social acceptance.

While marijuana was illegal one set of social rules applied.  Now that it is legal we can disapprove of it because it is stupid and stinky and not great for health, not because it is illegal.  And the medicinal benefits are legally available for those who need them.* Tobacco and alcohol are legal, but smoking and being drunk are badly thought of, and DUI is slammed.

*And people like me may be able to get seeds for fibre hemp and edible seed hemp and not have to worry about the law and the active components.