Author Topic: California tech leaders call for seccession?  (Read 10793 times)

Metric Mouse

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tooqk4u22

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 08:05:03 AM »
That would be funny.  CA is a the largest by population and economy and rivals other countries....so it is possible, of course most of it can be moved over to the US other than the agriculture.   But talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.  CA likes entitlements and taxes....it would become Cuba overnight without the US.   

It would have to form its own currency and military (which CA'ians don't generally like so how would it protect itself).  They have the loonie in Canada, maybe they can call the currency the Crazy in CA. 

England had/has a functioning government, currency, military and all that....Brexit is really just breaking away from a supersized trade agreement (Eurozone)...nothing more.

Hahahaha.....I am all for it.  I would love to buy dirt cheap coastal real estate after it implodes and they beg to come back. 


deadlymonkey

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 08:14:22 AM »
hmmm maybe instead of an exit we should just drop federal taxation and spending to near zero and let the states figure it out.  That way all those red states that rely on federal money to exist would feel some pain of their decisions and the blue states that give more money to the government than receive in benefits would get a tax break.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 08:16:43 AM »
California would have the world's 6th largest economy, if it were an independent country. I'm sure they would be just fine on their own. There are plenty of successful countries with strong social programs and without a bloated military (see: Europe). But I think this is a foolish overreaction that will subside in a few weeks. Acceptance is the final stage of grief. I'm guessing they're on bargaining at this point?

Midwest

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 08:40:33 AM »
Secession talk is dangerous and silly.  In addition, from a practical standpoint, they would have an exceedingly tough time without water from the rest of the US.  Their economy would shrink quite a bit without agricultural water supplied by the Colorado river. 

One of the reasons the US is great because as a whole we have wonderful resources and people who work together.

MW

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 08:44:25 AM »
Secession talk is dangerous and silly.  In addition, from a practical standpoint, they would have an exceedingly tough time without water from the rest of the US.  Their economy would shrink quite a bit without agricultural water supplied by the Colorado river. 

One of the reasons the US is great because as a whole we have wonderful resources and people who work together.

MW

Silly? Yes. Dangerous? Not more so than when Southerners threatened to secede after Obama's election. It's sadly predictable in the aftermath of every presidential election these days.

aoptic

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 08:50:30 AM »
no worries CA has those earthqakes and soon be under the ocean at some point.. Florida will sink... US will be better off two extreme states will level the playing field for future elections... :-p ( Hope people know I am somewhat kidding... )

Midwest

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2016, 08:53:28 AM »
Secession talk is dangerous and silly.  In addition, from a practical standpoint, they would have an exceedingly tough time without water from the rest of the US.  Their economy would shrink quite a bit without agricultural water supplied by the Colorado river. 

One of the reasons the US is great because as a whole we have wonderful resources and people who work together.

MW

Silly? Yes. Dangerous? Not more so than when Southerners threatened to secede after Obama's election. It's sadly predictable in the aftermath of every presidential election these days.

I wasn't singling out California when calling it dangerous and silly.

ysette9

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2016, 08:53:44 AM »
As a native Californian, I like the idea better of seceding with with coastal Oregon and Washington to create a greater Cascadia. I would also be happy if that landmass seceded and subsequently decided to incorporate as a new province of Canada. Best of both worlds: Canadian government and social programs while not having to leave my beloved home. Considering we provide the US 2/3 of its fruits and nuts, I think we can come to an agreement on water. Avocados anyone?

Midwest

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2016, 08:59:53 AM »
As a native Californian, I like the idea better of seceding with with coastal Oregon and Washington to create a greater Cascadia. I would also be happy if that landmass seceded and subsequently decided to incorporate as a new province of Canada. Best of both worlds: Canadian government and social programs while not having to leave my beloved home. Considering we provide the US 2/3 of its fruits and nuts, I think we can come to an agreement on water. Avocados anyone?

It's easier to live without avocados than water.  Prefer for you to have water and the rest of the US to have avocados, but arrogant Californians (not Californians is general, but the crazy ones running their mouths about this topic)  speaking of secession when they are water dependent is kind of funny.  The remainder of the states wouldn't starve without California.  I'm not sure Californians quality of life would be so good without water from other states.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2016, 09:06:29 AM »
As a native Californian, I like the idea better of seceding with with coastal Oregon and Washington to create a greater Cascadia. I would also be happy if that landmass seceded and subsequently decided to incorporate as a new province of Canada. Best of both worlds: Canadian government and social programs while not having to leave my beloved home. Considering we provide the US 2/3 of its fruits and nuts, I think we can come to an agreement on water. Avocados anyone?

It's easier to live without avocados than water.  Prefer for you to have water and the rest of the US to have avocados, but arrogant Californians (not Californians is general, but the crazy ones running their mouths about this topic)  speaking of secession when they are water dependent is kind of funny.  The remainder of the states wouldn't starve without California.  I'm not sure Californians quality of life would be so good without water from other states.

They'll have plenty of money to spend on desalinization technology and solar energy to power it if they no longer have to send so much tax money to the federal coffers to be distributed to the poorer states. That being said: Please don't leave! But it you do, take me with you :)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 09:20:00 AM by Mississippi Mudstache »

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2016, 09:09:24 AM »
That would be funny.  CA is a the largest by population and economy and rivals other countries....so it is possible, of course most of it can be moved over to the US other than the agriculture.   But talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.  CA likes entitlements and taxes....it would become Cuba overnight without the US.   

It would have to form its own currency and military (which CA'ians don't generally like so how would it protect itself).  They have the loonie in Canada, maybe they can call the currency the Crazy in CA. 

England had/has a functioning government, currency, military and all that....Brexit is really just breaking away from a supersized trade agreement (Eurozone)...nothing more.

Hahahaha.....I am all for it.  I would love to buy dirt cheap coastal real estate after it implodes and they beg to come back.

I doubt the people of California will do it once they've thought the probable consequences through. Surely they know that Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado are just waiting for an excuse to take their water back.

Lagom

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2016, 09:29:43 AM »
Obviously this won't happen, but it's fun to think about. First, California could easily do fine on its own and this wouldn't particularly bother me, as a Californian. We definitely do throw many billions of dollars towards subsidizing programs in other states, so lots of money could be redirected towards problems like water. Not to mention, trade agreements would certainly still be made with the U.S.

There's also no reason an independent California couldn't continue to use the US Dollar. It would not need to build up a huge military either, not sure why gleeful conservatives see that as an issue, but then I suppose they think massive overspending on the military is a matter of course with the government. That said, I'm all for the pacific coastal states being annexed by Canada. It would be fascinating to see such a scenario play out.

RetiredAt63

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2016, 11:11:42 AM »
Considering how hard Canada is having to work to protect some of its water from US diversion, this is a pretty funnyweird thread.

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2016, 11:33:42 AM »
California would have the world's 6th largest economy, if it were an independent country. I'm sure they would be just fine on their own. There are plenty of successful countries with strong social programs and without a bloated military (see: Europe). But I think this is a foolish overreaction that will subside in a few weeks. Acceptance is the final stage of grief. I'm guessing they're on bargaining at this point?

There are 32 military bases in California. California wouldn't get to keep those if they seceded. There are also tons of things that are very reliant on federal funding/federal government etc- all those things would disappear as well.  The economy of the state is not equal to the economy of the "country" if it became independent.


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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2016, 11:41:45 AM »
Cali couldn't do it alone. We could try to harm the federal gov but I think there would be retribution. And our infrastructure clearly isn't independent. We could do mass desalinization but I hear that is pretty hard on the ocean and we would need to invest a tone of money.

Cali should focus on maintaining its local laws that suit its individual state right to govern differently than every other state and push back through normal channels if it feels oppressed by the Fed just as other states have historically done.

If a Trump administration started having internment camps for Muslims we can we revisit such sentiments with a broader coalition of states. As of today secession is a bad joke.

Lagom

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2016, 11:42:01 AM »
California would have the world's 6th largest economy, if it were an independent country. I'm sure they would be just fine on their own. There are plenty of successful countries with strong social programs and without a bloated military (see: Europe). But I think this is a foolish overreaction that will subside in a few weeks. Acceptance is the final stage of grief. I'm guessing they're on bargaining at this point?

There are 32 military bases in California. California wouldn't get to keep those if they seceded. There are also tons of things that are very reliant on federal funding/federal government etc- all those things would disappear as well.  The economy of the state is not equal to the economy of the "country" if it became independent.

Dealing with the military base situation would definitely be tricky, and would almost certainly depress certain areas where the local economy relies on them. That said, California is not "reliant" on federal funding for its continued success. We are a net loser in the tax and spend game, with us getting less back in services than we send to Washington, so in that respect CA would come out ahead.

RangerOne

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2016, 11:47:15 AM »
California alone would have little military support. Most of our troops are transplants. I would much rather the state continue to evolve our state constitution and public offerings.

AlanStache

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2016, 12:34:49 PM »
The northern 2/3 (ish?) of the state gets its water from the sierra that would be in the CA border.

The Bahamas pegs there currency 1:1 to the US dollar. 

After Bush was elected and promised to end stem cell research funding people were similarly really pissed off so CA had a referendum to have a bunch of state money go towards the research.  Maybe this time something similar will happen: "F-U Trump, we are going to make a commercially viable energy storage system so that solar ceaper than coal!"  yeah that will show Trump. 

California subsidizes much of the country that trash talks California, will be interesting to see if and how this end.  It is almost like we need to show some tough love to a back talking dependent adult child :-) 

Captain FIRE

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2016, 12:52:58 PM »
hmmm maybe instead of an exit we should just drop federal taxation and spending to near zero and let the states figure it out.  That way all those red states that rely on federal money to exist would feel some pain of their decisions and the blue states that give more money to the government than receive in benefits would get a tax break.

Yes, this.  I'm not clear why the people in the red states vote so much against their own self interest, but contrary to many people's beliefs that it's "welfare queens" in blue states that are the issue, the blue states support the nation by contributing more than they receive back. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

It's ridiculous to propose, because it's largely fueled by frustration and the actual mechanics of an exit would be incredibly difficult.  But hopefully it does make the point to Trump that there are many wealthy and powerful people/businesses that are watching what he does.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 12:55:51 PM by Captain FIRE »

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2016, 01:29:35 PM »

Dealing with the military base situation would definitely be tricky, and would almost certainly depress certain areas where the local economy relies on them. That said, California is not "reliant" on federal funding for its continued success. We are a net loser in the tax and spend game, with us getting less back in services than we send to Washington, so in that respect CA would come out ahead.

I don't think California is reliant in that money is sent to them, but there are A LOT of federal jobs there- it's a huge state, so agencies have offices, national parks etc.  People in those offices would either have to move to the "United States" or would lose their jobs.

RetiredAt63

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2016, 01:32:20 PM »

Dealing with the military base situation would definitely be tricky, and would almost certainly depress certain areas where the local economy relies on them. That said, California is not "reliant" on federal funding for its continued success. We are a net loser in the tax and spend game, with us getting less back in services than we send to Washington, so in that respect CA would come out ahead.

I don't think California is reliant in that money is sent to them, but there are A LOT of federal jobs there- it's a huge state, so agencies have offices, national parks etc.  People in those offices would either have to move to the "United States" or would lose their jobs.

marty998

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2016, 01:37:14 PM »

Dealing with the military base situation would definitely be tricky, and would almost certainly depress certain areas where the local economy relies on them. That said, California is not "reliant" on federal funding for its continued success. We are a net loser in the tax and spend game, with us getting less back in services than we send to Washington, so in that respect CA would come out ahead.

I don't think California is reliant in that money is sent to them, but there are A LOT of federal jobs there- it's a huge state, so agencies have offices, national parks etc.  People in those offices would either have to move to the "United States" or would lose their jobs.

Yes but California would then need to create it's own "federal" agencies. At the very least, create those agencies that do not exist at state level anyway. Those workers will probably end up working for the California Feds.

Midwest

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2016, 01:37:19 PM »
hmmm maybe instead of an exit we should just drop federal taxation and spending to near zero and let the states figure it out.  That way all those red states that rely on federal money to exist would feel some pain of their decisions and the blue states that give more money to the government than receive in benefits would get a tax break.

Yes, this.  I'm not clear why the people in the red states vote so much against their own self interest, but contrary to many people's beliefs that it's "welfare queens" in blue states that are the issue, the blue states support the nation by contributing more than they receive back. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

It's ridiculous to propose, because it's largely fueled by frustration and the actual mechanics of an exit would be incredibly difficult.  But hopefully it does make the point to Trump that there are many wealthy and powerful people/businesses that are watching what he does.

It's a fairly ridiculous and dangerous point.  Trump won.  Clinton lost.  Try again in 4 years.  These tech leaders might want to revisit the history of the civil war before arguing for secession.  If California seceded, a war would result and California would lose.  I think we would all prefer to avoid that. 

If these tech leaders feel that strongly, they can try again in 4 years and/or leave.  I'm good with either of those two options (although I'd prefer the former), but they should STFU about secession.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2016, 02:33:27 PM »
hmmm maybe instead of an exit we should just drop federal taxation and spending to near zero and let the states figure it out.  That way all those red states that rely on federal money to exist would feel some pain of their decisions and the blue states that give more money to the government than receive in benefits would get a tax break.

Yes, this.  I'm not clear why the people in the red states vote so much against their own self interest, but contrary to many people's beliefs that it's "welfare queens" in blue states that are the issue, the blue states support the nation by contributing more than they receive back. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

It's ridiculous to propose, because it's largely fueled by frustration and the actual mechanics of an exit would be incredibly difficult.  But hopefully it does make the point to Trump that there are many wealthy and powerful people/businesses that are watching what he does.

It's a fairly ridiculous and dangerous point.  Trump won.  Clinton lost.  Try again in 4 years.  These tech leaders might want to revisit the history of the civil war before arguing for secession.  If California seceded, a war would result and California would lose.  I think we would all prefer to avoid that. 

If these tech leaders feel that strongly, they can try again in 4 years and/or leave.  I'm good with either of those two options (although I'd prefer the former), but they should STFU about secession.

Talking of secession is dangerous, but Trump's inflammatory rhetoric was A-OK? Gotcha.

Midwest

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2016, 02:37:28 PM »
hmmm maybe instead of an exit we should just drop federal taxation and spending to near zero and let the states figure it out.  That way all those red states that rely on federal money to exist would feel some pain of their decisions and the blue states that give more money to the government than receive in benefits would get a tax break.

Yes, this.  I'm not clear why the people in the red states vote so much against their own self interest, but contrary to many people's beliefs that it's "welfare queens" in blue states that are the issue, the blue states support the nation by contributing more than they receive back. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

It's ridiculous to propose, because it's largely fueled by frustration and the actual mechanics of an exit would be incredibly difficult.  But hopefully it does make the point to Trump that there are many wealthy and powerful people/businesses that are watching what he does.

It's a fairly ridiculous and dangerous point.  Trump won.  Clinton lost.  Try again in 4 years.  These tech leaders might want to revisit the history of the civil war before arguing for secession.  If California seceded, a war would result and California would lose.  I think we would all prefer to avoid that. 

If these tech leaders feel that strongly, they can try again in 4 years and/or leave.  I'm good with either of those two options (although I'd prefer the former), but they should STFU about secession.

Talking of secession is dangerous, but Trump's inflammatory rhetoric was A-OK? Gotcha.

Did I say that anywhere?  Trump said some monumentally stupid things.

We had a shit sandwich of choices between Trump and Clinton.  The election is over.  Results should be respected.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2016, 03:02:14 PM »
hmmm maybe instead of an exit we should just drop federal taxation and spending to near zero and let the states figure it out.  That way all those red states that rely on federal money to exist would feel some pain of their decisions and the blue states that give more money to the government than receive in benefits would get a tax break.

Yes, this.  I'm not clear why the people in the red states vote so much against their own self interest, but contrary to many people's beliefs that it's "welfare queens" in blue states that are the issue, the blue states support the nation by contributing more than they receive back. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

It's ridiculous to propose, because it's largely fueled by frustration and the actual mechanics of an exit would be incredibly difficult.  But hopefully it does make the point to Trump that there are many wealthy and powerful people/businesses that are watching what he does.

It's a fairly ridiculous and dangerous point.  Trump won.  Clinton lost.  Try again in 4 years.  These tech leaders might want to revisit the history of the civil war before arguing for secession.  If California seceded, a war would result and California would lose.  I think we would all prefer to avoid that. 

If these tech leaders feel that strongly, they can try again in 4 years and/or leave.  I'm good with either of those two options (although I'd prefer the former), but they should STFU about secession.

Talking of secession is dangerous, but Trump's inflammatory rhetoric was A-OK? Gotcha.

Did I say that anywhere?  Trump said some monumentally stupid things.

We had a shit sandwich of choices between Trump and Clinton.  The election is over.  Results should be respected.

You never said it, but you've made it clear that you find it irrelevant. Many of us do not, and are prepared for the worst (that is, we are prepared for him to do exactly what he said he will do). Perhaps everything will be fine, but don't fucking expect us to accept it on faith.

Midwest

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2016, 03:14:25 PM »
Talking of secession is dangerous, but Trump's inflammatory rhetoric was A-OK? Gotcha.

Did I say that anywhere?  Trump said some monumentally stupid things.

We had a shit sandwich of choices between Trump and Clinton.  The election is over.  Results should be respected.

You never said it, but you've made it clear that you find it irrelevant. Many of us do not, and are prepared for the worst (that is, we are prepared for him to do exactly what he said he will do). Perhaps everything will be fine, but don't fucking expect us to accept it on faith.

I haven't said that either.  In fact, I referred to the choice as a shit sandwich.  Peacefully protest his policies if you disagree, continue to harp on his character flaws, vote again in 2 years, etc.  I'm fine with that. 

Calling for secession, however, is dangerous and should stop. 

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2016, 05:09:26 PM »
It's not the first call for succession in California.  The first was from from the conservative counties in the east and north that see all their tax money go to Sacramento, the People's Republic of San Francisco, and the palm treed hell that is L.A.  Their idea was to form their own US state.  It's very much like the second succession idea in being overblown, unrealistic, and unlikely.  But it will totally screw with the second one if the second one threatens to actually happen.

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2016, 05:39:37 PM »
Silly? Yes. Dangerous? Not more so than when Southerners threatened to secede after Obama's election. It's sadly predictable in the aftermath of every presidential election these days.
Speaking as a foreign observer, it seems like anyone who really wanted to have secession would have to organise it in a few months while the hysteria is still fresh. I mean, the Confederate states started dropping out a month after Lincoln was sworn in. If they'd waited 6 months people would have calmed down and said, "Well really how much damage can he do to us in four years..."

AlanStache

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2016, 05:57:20 PM »
Silly? Yes. Dangerous? Not more so than when Southerners threatened to secede after Obama's election. It's sadly predictable in the aftermath of every presidential election these days.
Speaking as a foreign observer, it seems like anyone who really wanted to have secession would have to organise it in a few months while the hysteria is still fresh. I mean, the Confederate states started dropping out a month after Lincoln was sworn in. If they'd waited 6 months people would have calmed down and said, "Well really how much damage can he do to us in four years..."

I noted this today that many of the people calling for D's to just chill and work harder in 4 years are southerners who are all about the Confederacy.  Like dude your boys literally took up arms after a Republican was elected, today a bunch of people are posting on FB, it is a little bit double standarded. 



dividendman

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2016, 07:01:38 PM »
Note that secession can be done peacefully. Just get Californians to approve it.... oh, and Congress.

gimp

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2016, 09:49:08 PM »
It would never be done, of course, but it is a little fun to think about. Imagine if all of california, or most of it, or even all of cascadia formed its own country. It'd be a hell of a nice place to live, eh? CA alone has an economy that's around #6 on the world scale, just behind or just ahead of france I think. If OR and WA wanted to join us, it'd be a kickass fucking country.

dividendman

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2016, 10:02:33 PM »
It would never be done, of course, but it is a little fun to think about. Imagine if all of california, or most of it, or even all of cascadia formed its own country. It'd be a hell of a nice place to live, eh? CA alone has an economy that's around #6 on the world scale, just behind or just ahead of france I think. If OR and WA wanted to join us, it'd be a kickass fucking country.

Perhaps, but I think the pushing of mandatory daily kale smoothies, craft beer only laws, and vegan legislation from Cascadia would result in yet another schiscm.

gimp

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2016, 10:11:09 PM »
Thankfully Marin doesn't run the place, but Portland might give us a run for our money.

sol

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2016, 10:28:05 PM »
Why stop at the west coast?  Republicans clearly hate the northeast too, so why not let everyone east of PA and north of DC form their own country while we're at it. 

I'm happy to let the Dakotas and Detroit argue about whether they still want to be lopped in with Alabama and Texas.  Doesn't really matter to me either way.

But truthfully, this is all just butthurt overreaction.  It will die down  Folks are just angry that America has betrayed its own ideals, but that's only because they've confused the ideals of equality and fairness with the (more pertinent) ideal of democratic rule. 

There are 32 military bases in California. California wouldn't get to keep those if they seceded.

I don't think you understand how secession works.  Did the south turn over their armies to the north in 1860?


Metric Mouse

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2016, 10:43:07 PM »

Dealing with the military base situation would definitely be tricky, and would almost certainly depress certain areas where the local economy relies on them. That said, California is not "reliant" on federal funding for its continued success. We are a net loser in the tax and spend game, with us getting less back in services than we send to Washington, so in that respect CA would come out ahead.

I don't think California is reliant in that money is sent to them, but there are A LOT of federal jobs there- it's a huge state, so agencies have offices, national parks etc.  People in those offices would either have to move to the "United States" or would lose their jobs.

I think everyone is underestimating how much California is dependent upon the USA. Let us list some things that would go away:

Military Bases.
Electricity that comes from any other state.
Vast majorities of the trade that comes into its ports - these goods are not going to California, they are going to America.
Vast majorities of the trade that leaves its ports - These goods are produced in America, not California.
Water from any other state.
Construction materials would now be imported from another country - would there be any limits or tariffs on these?
Large Companies - any benefits any company gets from being in America would be gone. Any technology that was deemed important to national security would need to be brought stateside; it would not be feasible to have sensitive research and development hosted in a foreign country.
Trade agreements - anything produced in California that needed to be sold elsewhere would need to be renegotiated with other countries - maybe a problem, but possibly not.
Travel - Californians would require permission to enter the USA, or any other country. These permissions would have to be re-negotiated with each country.

America would lose:

Avacados.
Almonds.
The laughing cows.

Shit... sounds rough.

Note that secession can be done peacefully. Just get Californians to approve it.... oh, and Congress.

I'm not sure that's correct. Texas v White disagrees with you, from my understanding.

I noted this today that many of the people calling for D's to just chill and work harder in 4 years are southerners who are all about the Confederacy.  Like dude your boys literally took up arms after a Republican was elected, today a bunch of people are posting on FB, it is a little bit double standarded. 

Or, maybe they're Americans who care about their country, and don't want to see a bunch of out of touch, insulated billionaires in California go for a repeat of the bloodiest conflict in American history.  I'm sure the Confederate States of America sounded like a pretty 'kick ass place' to live to rich white men in the 1860's - doesn't make it a good idea.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 10:46:41 PM by Metric Mouse »

Lagom

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2016, 11:14:40 PM »
Rather unnuanced. Electricity and water from other states is not particularly concerning. Pacific ports will still be extremely valuable even if CA becomes a middle man, etc., etc. Do you really think one of the largest economies in the entire world would be completely crippled in this scenario? California is also disadvantaged in many ways (mostly $$$) through it's participation in the union.

Regardless, no one is advocating a civil war. First, this is 127% theoretical since it will never happen. Second, there is no reason this hypothetical would have to be bloody. Assuming the USA really is a socially conservative anti-progress nation, why shouldn't it be glad to be rid of a bunch of hippies and vice versa? Let's say we move back the clock and Texas decides to secede in 2008. That's all good with me too. Honestly, I sometimes think maybe we all would be better off fracturing the country. Some wounds might truly cut too deep. Doesn't mean we need to kill each other over them.

Anyway, mostly I just find the thought experiment to be fun. Zero chance any of this comes close to happening.

Metric Mouse

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2016, 11:27:00 PM »
It's a rather blunt conversation from both sides. "I don't like this, I'm leaving."  - California Billionaires.

Of course not all the things I listed would be magically moved east one state - ports and trade and electricity etc would just get much more messy, and no doubt at least some of that infrastructure would continue to function on some level. But to pretend that California, if it were magically not part of the USA, would still have the exact same GDP figures and net income as it currently does is startlingly naïve.   

But to the hypothetical of a socially conservative, anti-progress nation wishing to rid itself of a bunch of hippies - why would they not just move the hippies from the socially conservative nation and keep California, along with all of its money.

Personally, I think this country is strong enough to pull together and accept that not everyone has to agree with everyone else, that there are a wide range of world views that can coexist and can progress past rhetoric and hate and riots and learn to live together and compromise, even when disagreements arise.

Maybe I'm naïve as well.

simplified

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2016, 11:32:04 PM »
To appease the protesters, California should first start accepting all the illegal immigrants across the US and promise to provide them free healthcare, housing, food and jobs.

Better yet, why don't they go and become part of Mexico? Why is Canada being brought up into this discussion?

sol

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2016, 11:33:41 PM »
America would lose:

Avacados.
Almonds.
The laughing cows.

Also google and facebook and a bunch of other economically significant innovation companies.  Some of our best national parks.  Approximately 15% of all federal tax revenue, and 38 million people.  The nation's only access to satellite trajectories in polar orbits.  The world's oldest trees.  Some really great breast augmentation surgeons, and all of the beautiful women they've helped.  Some of the world's best universities. The La Brea fucking tar pits!  C'mon man, what would America be without the tar pits?

sol

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2016, 11:35:39 PM »
It's a rather blunt conversation from both sides. "I don't like this, I'm leaving."  - California Billionaires.

It is rather remarkably similar to previous discussion on this board about Galt's Gulch.  How's that irony taste now?

Metric Mouse

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2016, 11:40:28 PM »
It's a rather blunt conversation from both sides. "I don't like this, I'm leaving."  - California Billionaires.

It is rather remarkably similar to previous discussion on this board about Galt's Gulch.  How's that irony taste now?

If this was directed at me, I'm unaware of that particular conversation, and thus cannot comment intelligently upon the ironic flavor.

I've always been much more of a Fountainhead fan myself, having never read the other book.

RosieTR

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2016, 12:18:04 PM »
Why stop at the west coast?  Republicans clearly hate the northeast too, so why not let everyone east of PA and north of DC form their own country while we're at it. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map#/media/File:Jesusland_map.svg

Not that anyone's ever thought of this before. I'd be sad since CO would be out there with NM as an island. If only AZ could be annexed, since the Colorado River flows through there anyway? Then the water issue would be solved, all the blue states would be joined, and most of the best National Parks would be in the United States of Canada!

We could also tell the EU, I'll see your Brexit and raise you a complete reconfiguration of the United States and Canada!

rosaz

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2016, 07:15:51 PM »
I know the idea of secession is usually thrown around in anger, but does it ever seem like maybe we should be open to secession simply because 330,000,000 people (and growing) is simply too many to govern in any reasonably effective manner?

There's an electoral college thread going on this board arguing that we need to maintain the electoral college because apparently the only options are allowing rural citizens a disproportionate number of votes, or having urban districts run roughshod over rural ones. If those are the only two options as a United States, maybe just having multiple smaller countries wouldn't be a bad idea. If we wanted, we could have some sort of multi-national collaboration, but it would be strictly on an opt-in rather than majority rules basis.

If people don't think 330 million people is too large to govern equitably and fairly as a democracy, is there any number that would be too large? 600 million? 1 billion? I don't think we'll be getting any smaller any time soon.

RosieTR

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2016, 09:21:49 PM »
Wow, I was mostly joking with the last post but then my Investopedia term of the day came up. This is way more serious than I thought:
http://www.investopedia.com/news/calexit-how-would-california-secede-us/

It does seem ridiculous but then again, so did more than one political result this year.

Warlord1986

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2016, 11:23:46 PM »
California has a deficit, a lack of water, and an annual burning season that requires the efforts of the National Wildfire Coordinating Group to keep the state from resembling the bowels of hell. Leaving would be disastrous for them. Cali needs to take a seat 'cause we all know we're not lucky enough to get rid of it.

dragoncar

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2016, 11:51:53 PM »
Secession talk is dangerous and silly.  In addition, from a practical standpoint, they would have an exceedingly tough time without water from the rest of the US.  Their economy would shrink quite a bit without agricultural water supplied by the Colorado river. 

One of the reasons the US is great because as a whole we have wonderful resources and people who work together.

MW

2%?  Doesn't matter, since we won't be taking the central valley with us anyways.

P.S.  to be clear, I think secession is stupid whiny bullshit, but we would probably be OK.

dragoncar

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2016, 11:55:00 PM »


There are 32 military bases in California. California wouldn't get to keep those if they seceded. T

Watch us.  We also pay way more in taxes then we get in subsidies.

dragoncar

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Re: California tech leaders call for seccession?
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2016, 11:55:51 PM »
no worries CA has those earthqakes and soon be under the ocean at some point.. Florida will sink... US will be better off two extreme states will level the playing field for future elections... :-p ( Hope people know I am somewhat kidding... )

Unlike Florida, CA has a pretty diverse topography, and by no means would be underwater.  We could lose some coastline.