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[Fru-Gal]

Wow. If anything changes, I hope that common courtesy comes back. Doubting people’s motives for simple congratulations said honestly is really sad, and not normal. Imagine the mental strain required to constantly doubt what people around you say?

Both sides should understand that rhetoric during a campaign is always extreme. After the election, you shake hands and get back to work. This is how Congress works, despite any theatrics. It has been like this since the foundation of America. Not only that, anyone who parents knows that you shake hands and say “good game” after a sporting event, no matter how intensely battled.

Again, this is basic courtesy. Please consider using it and accepting it.

[Fru-Gal]

This just reminded me of something I learned in dog training. I’m a lifelong dog owner. At one point we had two in our pack that were fighting terribly. It was very scary. We learned an important psychological thing, which was that after a fight, you have to close the loop and, once they are calm, have the two dogs greet each other normally. If you don’t, they have unfinished business.

It was amazing to see how this (along with a bunch of other techniques and changes in human behavior) worked to defuse future fighting. Eventually the behavior was gone and the two dogs got along fine, though they never became friends.

This is why we have human rituals/pageantry like the peaceful transfer of power, the inauguration celebration, etc.

[Phenix]

Wow. If anything changes, I hope that common courtesy comes back. Doubting people’s motives for simple congratulations said honestly is really sad, and not normal. Imagine the mental strain required to constantly doubt what people around you say?

Both sides should understand that rhetoric during a campaign is always extreme. After the election, you shake hands and get back to work. This is how Congress works, despite any theatrics. It has been like this since the foundation of America. Not only that, anyone who parents knows that you shake hands and say “good game” after a sporting event, no matter how intensely battled.

Again, this is basic courtesy. Please consider using it and accepting it.

And I would ask you to consider raising the bar for offering congratulations. I would certainly question anyone for congratulating me for putting in 0.0000013% (1/77M) of the effort.

[zolotiyeruki]

Wow. If anything changes, I hope that common courtesy comes back. Doubting people’s motives for simple congratulations said honestly is really sad, and not normal. Imagine the mental strain required to constantly doubt what people around you say?

Both sides should understand that rhetoric during a campaign is always extreme. After the election, you shake hands and get back to work. This is how Congress works, despite any theatrics. It has been like this since the foundation of America. Not only that, anyone who parents knows that you shake hands and say “good game” after a sporting event, no matter how intensely battled.

Again, this is basic courtesy. Please consider using it and accepting it.

I agree that basic courtesy needs to make a comeback.  I think a lot of the intensity in emotion and rhetoric stems from the feeling that a lot is at stake: "if Party X gains power, then they'll do Bad Thing Y with the power of the government behind them" whether it be censoring conservative views or banning abortion or taking away my guns or abolishing Social Security...often without regard for the likelihood or legality of such an action, or any discussion of nuance.  I would argue that a lot of angst could be eliminated if the levers of power were significantly shortened, but that's a whole different topic...

[farmecologist]

Wow. If anything changes, I hope that common courtesy comes back. Doubting people’s motives for simple congratulations said honestly is really sad, and not normal. Imagine the mental strain required to constantly doubt what people around you say?

Both sides should understand that rhetoric during a campaign is always extreme. After the election, you shake hands and get back to work. This is how Congress works, despite any theatrics. It has been like this since the foundation of America. Not only that, anyone who parents knows that you shake hands and say “good game” after a sporting event, no matter how intensely battled.

Again, this is basic courtesy. Please consider using it and accepting it.

I agree that basic courtesy needs to make a comeback.  I think a lot of the intensity in emotion and rhetoric stems from the feeling that a lot is at stake: "if Party X gains power, then they'll do Bad Thing Y with the power of the government behind them" whether it be censoring conservative views or banning abortion or taking away my guns or abolishing Social Security...often without regard for the likelihood or legality of such an action, or any discussion of nuance.  I would argue that a lot of angst could be eliminated if the levers of power were significantly shortened, but that's a whole different topic...

I do too.  However, all of the ultra conservative folks in our family always seem make a point to bring up their political views at family gatherings, unprovoked, in not so nice ways.  All of the more "liberal" folks never seem to do that.  It is almost like many conservatives have their entire identity tied up in grievance politics.  Very sad... 

I'm all for a civilized conversation, but until they can STFU and stop targeting people who don't share their views, common courtesy will have a hell of a time coming back. 

[oldladystache]

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent. 

[twinstudy]

High tool prices just leads people to do things they shouldn't like buying tools and then returning them once the repair is complete.

Many parts stores do this, by design: You buy one-off kits for esoteric repair jobs, and get a full refund when you return them in good condition.  This is common for ball joint tools, fan wrenches, and probably a range of other things I've not had to deal with.

I'm familiar with this and have rented/borrowed tools from auto parts stores many times. The someone from my tool returning anecdote was someone buying and returning ordinary tools not found in the auto parts store lending library. Those auto parts store libraries here don't usually lend screwdrivers, hammers and wrenches. Only "advanced" tools too expensive for the average weekend shadetree mechanic to buy.

Libraries lending tools are not a thing here. Our library is very good but they lend recorded media and books. No tools.

Many "buy American first" efforts impact people at the bottom first. I'm not so removed from starting out - at the bottom - to have forgotten what is like to have a $50 problem and $20 to deal with it in order to keep driving to my job. I borrowed tools from family and friends. Made due. Improvised. I asked for guidance, I studied free library books for answers pre-internet, etc. I remember removing an incorrectly installed distributor drive from a VW engine with a #2 pencil that was still blunt from the package. It fit better than any other tool I could find or imagine. It also fit my budget. 

I don't have any affection for the Chinese gov't but it seems hypocritical to have spent the past 50 years here in the USA buying Chinese everything in all the big box retailers only to suddenly in late 2024 decide overnight that Chinese made products are suddenly made out of kryptonite. Seems like a bandwagon topic of the week. I'll continue to buy what I need and if that happens to be made in China then so be it. I suspect that at the retailers in my part of the USA, my choices will continue to be overwhelmingly from China as usual. If the retailers want to change to domestic suppliers then we'll see what happens next. I suspect my Trump voting neighbors and coworkers will cry uncle first when they see how much more expensive their new choices are. I genuinely hope I'm wrong.

My conservative family members have been actively avoiding Chinese products for two decades. This is not an "overnight" development or bandwagon topic. The biggest difference between today and 50 years ago is how close a communist economic superpower is to gaining military superiority over the United States and its allies. If you could sit through one top secret intel brief, your stance on supporting the Chinese economy might start to soften.

I don't think I'd care even if I knew China was about to gain military superiority. The idea of China being any materially worse than the US is foreign to me. And I'm not here to cheerlead for either superpower. If there was a war that broke out I wouldn't fight for or against either of them.

[evme]

Because many conservatives watch Fox News, NewsMax, OAN and are conditioned to **always** be upset. Like Pavlov's dogs, they are whipped into an an apoplectic fury at the ringing of the "bells" (fake or greatly exagerated "news story").

[MustacheAndaHalf]

I'm of the view most Americans don't realize how much of their stuff is made in China.  I expect 60-100% tariffs on China to hit a backlash later as people protest they didn't know how much it would cost them personally.  Ideally, people could acknowledge how much tariffs will cost them, and then agree to tariffs anyways.
...

...
But then they say something stupid like "america will just ramp up production of the parts" like that's super easy and fast or even possible. It's very expensive to build a factory and requires a lot of capital, and can take a long time, so even if there's the money and will to build factories that produce parts it will take years for that to come online and it may not even be cheaper than the parts with the tariff cost added on. However, as was seen in the first round of tariffs companies  didn't actually build new production in the US, they just passed on the costs to consumers and american exports became less competitive.
...

Even having the money for a factory may be enough.  If a factory is only profitable with tariffs in place, then the factory becomes a waste if tariffs go away.  Last time, tariffs on Mexico and Canada ended after about a year.  Businessman could reasonably assume tariffs will go away within a year this time, as well.  Factories don't make sense with uncertainty over the duration of tariffs.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

For a DIYer, you're saying tools are cheap because of the dollars they didn't spend on a mechanic.  A DIYer's labor is free, which makes the tools far more expensive.  All that aside, if you think professionals and amateurs both buy domestic, the data doesn't match the source I cited: 60% of hand tools are imported.

I'm saying that I don't think a higher cost of tools, with tariffs or buying locally, would substantially impact the rates of DIY work on vehicles, and certainly wouldn't drive people currently doing DIY work (often because they cannot afford a shop) to suddenly go "Wait, I can't afford a wrench, I'll take my car to the shop instead."

The cost of tools is a rounding error in the costs of keeping a vehicle running, and doubling or tripling that cost doesn't change the ratios much.  I say this having spent a very long while driving the class of vehicles where "the toolbox in the back was worth a good bit more than I paid for the entire car."  And it wasn't a terribly high end toolbox.

If DIY grew when exports increased and prices fell, that would demonstrate my point.  I can't find stats on that.

Consumer Reports shows Ford cars cost $220/year for the first 5 years, then $970/year for the next 5 years.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/

"Beginners can expect to spend $1,000-$4,000 on tools, depending on their training program."
https://www.bestcolleges.com/trades/auto-mechanic/must-have-tools/

I don't consider $2,500 a rounding error compared to either $220/year or $970/year.

[blue_green_sparks]

Because many conservatives watch Fox News, NewsMax, OAN and are conditioned to **always** be upset. Like Pavlov's dogs, they are whipped into an an apoplectic fury at the ringing of the "bells" (fake or greatly exagerated "news story").

The average human being can be characterized as being irrationally superstitious and easily misled. As long as I assume this axiom, I am never disappointed. Meanwhile, somewhere in Kentucky, busloads of brainiacs trudge through a huge, boat-shaped building full of stuffed dinosaurs, captained by our alcoholic sole progenitor, Noah. Right.

[Just Joe]

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent.

Ahh, but blue state CA. In my red state it is the opposite.

[sonofsven]

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent.

Out of shame no doubt ;-)

[zolotiyeruki]

Because many conservatives watch Fox News, NewsMax, OAN and are conditioned to **always** be upset. Like Pavlov's dogs, they are whipped into an an apoplectic fury at the ringing of the "bells" (fake or greatly exagerated "news story").

You're absolutely right, and it's exactly just like liberals get enraged by watching MSNBC, ABC, CNN, etc (although CNN is making noises about returning to balanced coverage). 

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent. 

It depends on the crowd.  This forum skews fairly heavily liberal.  For a conservative like myself, it can be exhausting or overwhelming to defend a conservative viewpoint in a thread against six or eight passionate and vocal liberals.  You get dogpiled in a hurry, and that's not a fun feeling.  So it's easier sometimes to just keep one's virtual mouth shut.

That's one of the reasons why, when my teenage kids disagree with me on some deep issue, I'll ask them questions, leading them through a thorough thought process, so they can understand the logic and reasoning, rather than beating them over the head with the Facts of Life.

[ChpBstrd]

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent.

Now that conservatives have obtained control over all 3 branches of government plus the media, they are suddenly.... accountable for what happens next.

Maybe there's a sense that the Democrats aren't around as an excuse anymore. Essentially that's true. The Democratic Party is nearly dead as a national force. If a debt default, recession, dollar devaluation, military loss, outbreak of disorder, or whatever happens, the Republicans will have to own it. That's sobering.

Rubbing the win in everyone's faces now would only reinforce the association with whatever dissatisfaction comes next.

[twinstudy]

Because many conservatives watch Fox News, NewsMax, OAN and are conditioned to **always** be upset. Like Pavlov's dogs, they are whipped into an an apoplectic fury at the ringing of the "bells" (fake or greatly exagerated "news story").

You're absolutely right, and it's exactly just like liberals get enraged by watching MSNBC, ABC, CNN, etc (although CNN is making noises about returning to balanced coverage). 

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent. 

It depends on the crowd.  This forum skews fairly heavily liberal.  For a conservative like myself, it can be exhausting or overwhelming to defend a conservative viewpoint in a thread against six or eight passionate and vocal liberals.  You get dogpiled in a hurry, and that's not a fun feeling.  So it's easier sometimes to just keep one's virtual mouth shut.

That's one of the reasons why, when my teenage kids disagree with me on some deep issue, I'll ask them questions, leading them through a thorough thought process, so they can understand the logic and reasoning, rather than beating them over the head with the Facts of Life.

This forum does skew liberal, but it's one of the most diplomatic and thoughtful forums out there. Try spouting a conservative stance on, say, reddit - the reaction is 100x worse. It doesn't even have to be an arch-conservative stance; something as simple as 'I believe that meritocracy does still play a significant role in the modern system, and personal attributes correlate with outcomes' will get you heavily downvoted because you haven't dealt with all the structural problems facing everyone in society blah blah blah. On that point, I always felt it a bit strange that many people posting on reddit are middle class young men yet they act as if they were minorities in the pre-civil rights days - somehow they're oppressed from all angles.

[NorCal]

Because many conservatives watch Fox News, NewsMax, OAN and are conditioned to **always** be upset. Like Pavlov's dogs, they are whipped into an an apoplectic fury at the ringing of the "bells" (fake or greatly exagerated "news story").

You're absolutely right, and it's exactly just like liberals get enraged by watching MSNBC, ABC, CNN, etc (although CNN is making noises about returning to balanced coverage). 

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent. 

It depends on the crowd.  This forum skews fairly heavily liberal.  For a conservative like myself, it can be exhausting or overwhelming to defend a conservative viewpoint in a thread against six or eight passionate and vocal liberals.  You get dogpiled in a hurry, and that's not a fun feeling.  So it's easier sometimes to just keep one's virtual mouth shut.

That's one of the reasons why, when my teenage kids disagree with me on some deep issue, I'll ask them questions, leading them through a thorough thought process, so they can understand the logic and reasoning, rather than beating them over the head with the Facts of Life.

This forum does skew liberal, but it's one of the most diplomatic and thoughtful forums out there. Try spouting a conservative stance on, say, reddit - the reaction is 100x worse. It doesn't even have to be an arch-conservative stance; something as simple as 'I believe that meritocracy does still play a significant role in the modern system, and personal attributes correlate with outcomes' will get you heavily downvoted because you haven't dealt with all the structural problems facing everyone in society blah blah blah. On that point, I always felt it a bit strange that many people posting on reddit are middle class young men yet they act as if they were minorities in the pre-civil rights days - somehow they're oppressed from all angles.

That's pretty much the reason I deleted my Reddit account.  It's rage-bait for liberals the same way that Foxnews is for conservatives. 

It's impossible to be exposed to that type of thing daily (either Reddit or Foxnews) while keeping a healthy and rational view of the world. 

[twinstudy]

That's pretty much the reason I deleted my Reddit account.  It's rage-bait for liberals the same way that Foxnews is for conservatives. 

It's impossible to be exposed to that type of thing daily (either Reddit or Foxnews) while keeping a healthy and rational view of the world.

If you look at the antiwork subreddit, literally half the front-page posts are about Brian Thompson still. Sympathising with Luigi or demonising Thompson. You'd have better returns from focussing on what you can control (or properly discussing the shortcomings of the American health system) rather than burning effigies of some mid-range CEO.

It's funny because antiwork and MMM have the same goal ultimately (of not working) but have completely opposite approaches to getting there.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Because many conservatives watch Fox News, NewsMax, OAN and are conditioned to **always** be upset. Like Pavlov's dogs, they are whipped into an an apoplectic fury at the ringing of the "bells" (fake or greatly exagerated "news story").

You're absolutely right, and it's exactly just like liberals get enraged by watching MSNBC, ABC, CNN, etc (although CNN is making noises about returning to balanced coverage). 

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent. 

It depends on the crowd.  This forum skews fairly heavily liberal.  For a conservative like myself, it can be exhausting or overwhelming to defend a conservative viewpoint in a thread against six or eight passionate and vocal liberals.  You get dogpiled in a hurry, and that's not a fun feeling.  So it's easier sometimes to just keep one's virtual mouth shut.

That's one of the reasons why, when my teenage kids disagree with me on some deep issue, I'll ask them questions, leading them through a thorough thought process, so they can understand the logic and reasoning, rather than beating them over the head with the Facts of Life.

This forum does skew liberal, but it's one of the most diplomatic and thoughtful forums out there. Try spouting a conservative stance on, say, reddit - the reaction is 100x worse. It doesn't even have to be an arch-conservative stance; something as simple as 'I believe that meritocracy does still play a significant role in the modern system, and personal attributes correlate with outcomes' will get you heavily downvoted because you haven't dealt with all the structural problems facing everyone in society blah blah blah. On that point, I always felt it a bit strange that many people posting on reddit are middle class young men yet they act as if they were minorities in the pre-civil rights days - somehow they're oppressed from all angles.

The forum could be improved by people pushing back on blanket insults like the one below, from another thread.

Conservatives at this point are mostly morons who think that they can do it alone without government help because they are fine without realizing that the government is ensuring they avoid disaster.

[zolotiyeruki]

The forum could be improved by people pushing back on blanket insults like the one below, from another thread.

Conservatives at this point are mostly morons who think that they can do it alone without government help because they are fine without realizing that the government is ensuring they avoid disaster.

And how about this one, from the first page of this very thread?

At this point I'm just pretty sure conservatives are just bad people who live on manufactured outrage.

[partgypsy]

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent.

Now that conservatives have obtained control over all 3 branches of government plus the media, they are suddenly.... accountable for what happens next.

Maybe there's a sense that the Democrats aren't around as an excuse anymore. Essentially that's true. The Democratic Party is nearly dead as a national force. If a debt default, recession, dollar devaluation, military loss, outbreak of disorder, or whatever happens, the Republicans will have to own it. That's sobering.

Rubbing the win in everyone's faces now would only reinforce the association with whatever dissatisfaction comes next.

Republicans now own all three branches. It will be interesting going forward the politicians in control, take accountability.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Rewinding a bit ...

My conservative family members have been actively avoiding Chinese products for two decades. This is not an "overnight" development or bandwagon topic. The biggest difference between today and 50 years ago is how close a communist economic superpower is to gaining military superiority over the United States and its allies. If you could sit through one top secret intel brief, your stance on supporting the Chinese economy might start to soften.

Some years ago, I tried finding a computer mouse that wasn't made in China.  I eventually gave up.  Some products seem to be entirely, or almost entirely, made in China.  Did your conservative family members succeed in avoiding Chinese products entirely?  If so, I'd be curious how they accomplished it.

[zolotiyeruki]

In my circles none of the conservatives or liberals have shown any upset. The liberals are often quite vocal about how evil the conservatives are, and the conservatives are silent.

Now that conservatives have obtained control over all 3 branches of government plus the media, they are suddenly.... accountable for what happens next.

Maybe there's a sense that the Democrats aren't around as an excuse anymore. Essentially that's true. The Democratic Party is nearly dead as a national force. If a debt default, recession, dollar devaluation, military loss, outbreak of disorder, or whatever happens, the Republicans will have to own it. That's sobering.

Rubbing the win in everyone's faces now would only reinforce the association with whatever dissatisfaction comes next.

Republicans now own all three branches. It will be interesting going forward the politicians in control, take accountability.

It'll be interesting to see, indeed.  That said, I think it's a mistake to think of Republican legislators as a monolithic block.  Clearly, the events surrounding the continuing resolution would indicate otherwise.  I think it's also worth pointing out that, traditionally, the minority party tends to vote more as a block than the majority party, and the Democrats seem to do so more than Republicans, so a slim majority in either house of congress doesn't necessarily mean that the majority party is actually in full control.  If it only takes a handful of reps from the majority party to derail a particular piece of legislation, that's not an indictment of the entire party.

And don't forget that the filibuster is still in place, thank heavens, despite Chuck Schumer's comments from a few years back.

[simonsez]

MAGA seems to be the party of anger and grievance. I can’t imagine them giving that up just because Trump won.

I think this is the root of it. People voted for Trump because they think America is a terrible place. Why would they be happy just because he won? Until America is “great again,” they have no reason to celebrate.

Let’s not forget that Trump had very low approval ratings by the time he left office the first time. Why would they feel optimistic this time?

He’ll have to actually accomplish something positive to make them happy, but the “greatness” of America is a nebulous and poorly defined fantasy, so even if he does accomplish something, it may not be what any one specific voter wanted, if they even know what they want.

Years ago, one voter quoted in an article said candidate 1 had done nothing to help them find a job and improve their lives, so they were voting for candidate 2.

I was really struck by the idea that anyone thinks the president has much to do with them finding a job. To some extent, they do. But, basically, I've always felt I was on my own in that department and not relying on a president to make decisions that somehow got me a job.

I realize this was only one person quote in an article, yet I assume others must share this thinking.

I largely agree.  There are some situations, though, when it's more direct.  Not in finding a job, but in keeping one.  Case in point, Biden determining the fate of the US Steel sale.  Not sure if anyone else works in the steel industry or has friends and family members that do, but I do and it *seems* Biden and USW union are hellbent on the deal NOT going through.  All kinds of pros and cons and I won't delve too deeply into the details as they do vary for different plants across the country (and much of it is internal rumor anyway) but the point is that Biden's choice has direct job implications for thousands.

Nippon wants US Steel, the US Steel shareholders want US Steel to be sold, Biden (AND Trump) want US Steel to remain domestic and open.  However, if the deal doesn't go through, who knows if US Steel can remain afloat.  Thus, many (including some right wing political people I know personally who work there) would rather have a job even if owned by Nippon rather than stay domestic and then likely shutter doors completely.

In a oddly funny way, I think young people growing up today and watching Godfather 2 will not understand Hyman Roth telling Michael that they'll be "bigger than US Steel".  A single letter stock symbol (X) that historically was one of the bluest of the blue chip stocks could be put out to pasture very soon.

[Just Joe]

Many of the Republicans I know here are low income. Red state. They chase the imported Chinese goods sales just like anyone else. They might want to buy American but they rely on Dollar General, The Dollar Tree, Walmart, and so forth. They'll lament the possible future higher prices due to tariffs just like everyone else.

[Phenix]

Rewinding a bit ...

My conservative family members have been actively avoiding Chinese products for two decades. This is not an "overnight" development or bandwagon topic. The biggest difference between today and 50 years ago is how close a communist economic superpower is to gaining military superiority over the United States and its allies. If you could sit through one top secret intel brief, your stance on supporting the Chinese economy might start to soften.

Some years ago, I tried finding a computer mouse that wasn't made in China.  I eventually gave up.  Some products seem to be entirely, or almost entirely, made in China.  Did your conservative family members succeed in avoiding Chinese products entirely?  If so, I'd be curious how they accomplished it.

In situations like that, they would probably buy a used product or go without it. I should also mention that frugality comes naturally to those family members I referenced. They drive well maintained early 2000s vehicles, live in modest brick ranch style homes, and buy a lot of their stuff second hand.