Author Topic: Bizarre situation involving gold  (Read 3986 times)

dragonwalker

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Bizarre situation involving gold
« on: November 16, 2018, 09:24:19 PM »
Several months ago my mother who is an acupuncturist saw some new patients. The patients were supposedly laborers from  China. They claimed that they wanted to see if my mother could help them some sleep issues. Over the course of the conversation they revealed that during their work they had unearthed a container in the ground that contained a sizeable amount of gold.
They had with them 1 of the ingots which may have been several ounces. These individuals claimed that they found 80 of these ingots and 4 larger goblets of gold. There was a letter written in Chinese that my mother could read which indicated that this gold belonged to a man who had wished that his several sons would receive it and his hope that it would not be found by strangers (yes the irony).

They broke off a piece for my mother to examine on her own. I’ll be clear and say that according to my mother she has no idea who these people are and that they literally found her by looking up on the Internet for an acupuncturist and several other friends new of my mother who spoke the same language as her. Apparently a coincidence. According to my mother these 4 individuals are essentially superstitious famers unsure of what to do and who to trust. Fearing that the gold be cursed. Neither one of us have any idea why they chose to reveal the information about the gold to my mother.
 
It was at this time that she informed me of what happened. I thought it was some kind of elaborate hoax or scam and advised she not be involved with this in any way. At this point my mother had not yet had the gold piece given to her professionally reviewed. However, she is convinced that it is real pure gold and the ingot that it was cut from was also pure gold. I have seen the sample and I really couldn’t tell at all but that’s coming from someone who has never possessed any physical gold.

Some months pass and I don’t here anything else of this strange situation. My mother supposedly telling them she can’t help them. They contact my mother by phone again and this time say that they will be leaving soon and proposed at first to have my mother, a complete stranger, hold the gold for them. They later clarified their intention was to get as much cash from my mother as possible for the gold.

It was at this time that they revealed they estimated the total amount of their share of the gold was about 5 kilograms. My mother had the sample appraised at a shop who claimed that it was actually between 18-20 K gold and that he would give my mother $118 for the 5.4 gram sample and $700 per ounce. My estimate judging by the spot price of gold and the ratio he provided would seem to suggest a value of about $123,000. She will check several other places.   

Originally there were 4 men who were involved in finding this gold. 2 of them are in southern CA and the others are up north. These 2 have 20 ingots and 2 of the goblet like pieces. These individuals claim to have no family and no connection to anyone here in the US and say they can not bring the gold back with them.

There are about a billion questions I have in my mind. Among them are I haven’t assumed anything is true and personally I think there is a greater chance that if real this gold was stolen rather than mysteriously found as they described. Even if found in the manner described I do not believe the workers have any right to it. I advised my mother against taking any action deepening her involvement. But her greed and my greed and curiosity are rearing its ugly head. I am fighting myself to try to do the right thing.
My mother, a good person would like to do the right thing but I feel she and I may ultimately not.

Hypothetically, if she were able to verify the gold is real. She suggested offering some partial amount between $15,000-$20,000 in exchange for them.

I have thought about this and my mind tends to go to the worst-case scenario which I think is at least pulling me in the direction of doing the right thing. Mainly what if these pieces were obtained criminally. How liable would my mother and maybe even me be for facilitating such a transaction? I’m still not sure if these people are still playing the long game and looking to rob or hurt my mother who might bring this cash.

There is no telling how much gold the other partners up north have and if any of them attempt to sneak or smuggle this where they are caught by authorities how terrible it would be to lead back to my mother. What if these men regret their decision and come back to get more?

Even with the gold in hand I know there a lot of obstacles changing it into cash as far as reportability, taxation, etc.

My mother and I don’t “need” the money but of course my mother is thinking of how she could retire after this if the best case scenario happens.

Unfortunately, if it’s real my mother has mentioned that she will need my “help” and as her son I am hard pressed to deny her help if she insists on proceeding if anything to make sure she’s safe. I don’t think I would ask her to be a part of this. However she knows that I do have cash available to make any potential deal more likely. It feels wrong but the greed is just so heavy.         
I’m sure none of you has experienced anything quite like this but what are some things to think and consider with either decision?

Papa bear

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2018, 09:36:35 PM »
I had a prince from Ghana email me once.  I think it was a prince, he told me he was. He was trying to get me to find a buyer for gold here in the US.  He didn’t understand customs forms, nor did he know any of the Ghanan’s I had met that worked at their largest gold mine.  After I expressed interest, but laid out those questions, he never emailed me again. C’est la vie.




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mrmoonymartian

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2018, 09:58:36 PM »
Which part of "fuck off, and take your fucking gold with you" is your mom having trouble with?

bacchi

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2018, 10:27:22 PM »
If this was legit, why would they go to your mom? Couldn't they get a lawyer and an assayer by themselves? It doesn't make sense that they'd do this through a random acupuncturist.

If your mom is insistent, ask these lucky guys to meet you and your mom at an assayer to check ALL of the gold. They probably won't show.

If it's determined to be really gold, ask them to meet you and your mom at a bank to do the exchange.

Following through blindly will only end badly. There's a 99% chance it's a scam.

PKFFW

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2018, 03:39:03 AM »
I stopped reading after first time clients opened up to your mum that they have found 80 ingots of gold.

No offence to your mum but I can't believe there are people out there that fall for things like this.

marty998

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2018, 03:54:00 AM »
Look they may have given you a real piece for you to test it, but when you hand over the cash for the rest of it chances are you'll get a suitcase of lead or iron and you'll never see these upstanding bright young members of the community again.

Polaria

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2018, 06:38:08 AM »
If it seems too good to be true... The right thing to do is telling them to fuck off.

Remember greed is a deadly sin for a reason.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 07:32:34 AM by Polaria »

CrustyBadger

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2018, 06:53:13 AM »
This is a common scam using affinity (speak the same language, know some friends in common) to build trust.

https://schiffgold.com/gold-scams/gold-scammers-using-affinity-fraud-technique/

JUNE 28, 2017 

Quote
Gold scammers are targeting Chinese-Americans, but similar techniques can be used to target and rip off other groups of people.

The scam has most recently been reported in Maryland. According to CBS Baltimore, the Montgomery County Police Department reports at least one victim lost $20,000 to gold scammers targeting people of Chinese descent.

Police term the technique being used as “affinity fraud.” The scam “relies on building trust with victims based on shared affiliations and characteristics such as age, race, religion, occupation, etc.”

The specific scam in Maryland starts with a phone call. The phone number appears as a Chinese number on caller ID. The scammer establishes a rapport and then arranges an in-person meeting. Once face-to-face, the scammers show the victim fake gold, claiming they found it while doing construction work. They claim they are undocumented, and want to sell the gold and use the money to either return to China, or to help family in that country. The scammers hook their victims through their convincing story, their shared cultural understanding, and by saying they will take less than money than the gold is worth.

If the victim requests a sample for testing, the scammer will often offer up a small sample of real gold. But if the scam plays out to its conclusion, the victim ends up with worthless fake gold, and the scammer makes off with a big chunk of cash.

According to CBS Baltimore, “the first victim gave the suspects $20,000 in cash for gold that was later determined to be fake. 49-year-old Xiaoping Yang (also known as Ziaoping Yang) and 51-year-old Yinhui Huang have been charged with theft in this case, and were previously charged in Fairfax County for the same scam.”

radram

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2018, 07:17:52 AM »
Did you REALLY expect anyone to recommend you go through with this?

If you did, and I mean this with every bit of seriousness, you should STOP HELPING YOUR MOTHER on all matters financial. She is going to get hurt.

Crease

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2018, 07:20:21 AM »
My spidey sense is tingling.

driftwood

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2018, 07:53:19 AM »
As others have mentioned, it sounds like a scam. If you want to follow it to the end anyways, play it safe, with no financial risk from your side.

They give her some more or all of the gold. She sells the gold. She pays them whatever agreed-upon price they had for the gold, and keeps the rest. Continue until all gold is sold. Never pre-pay for any of it. Never tell them what she sold it for. If they don't want to do it like that then cease talking to them.

Davnasty

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2018, 09:26:29 AM »
This is a common scam using affinity (speak the same language, know some friends in common) to build trust.

https://schiffgold.com/gold-scams/gold-scammers-using-affinity-fraud-technique/

JUNE 28, 2017 

Quote
Gold scammers are targeting Chinese-Americans, but similar techniques can be used to target and rip off other groups of people.

The scam has most recently been reported in Maryland. According to CBS Baltimore, the Montgomery County Police Department reports at least one victim lost $20,000 to gold scammers targeting people of Chinese descent.

Police term the technique being used as “affinity fraud.” The scam “relies on building trust with victims based on shared affiliations and characteristics such as age, race, religion, occupation, etc.”

The specific scam in Maryland starts with a phone call. The phone number appears as a Chinese number on caller ID. The scammer establishes a rapport and then arranges an in-person meeting. Once face-to-face, the scammers show the victim fake gold, claiming they found it while doing construction work. They claim they are undocumented, and want to sell the gold and use the money to either return to China, or to help family in that country. The scammers hook their victims through their convincing story, their shared cultural understanding, and by saying they will take less than money than the gold is worth.

If the victim requests a sample for testing, the scammer will often offer up a small sample of real gold. But if the scam plays out to its conclusion, the victim ends up with worthless fake gold, and the scammer makes off with a big chunk of cash.

According to CBS Baltimore, “the first victim gave the suspects $20,000 in cash for gold that was later determined to be fake. 49-year-old Xiaoping Yang (also known as Ziaoping Yang) and 51-year-old Yinhui Huang have been charged with theft in this case, and were previously charged in Fairfax County for the same scam.”

Best answer here. Seems pretty clear that this is what's happening.

Hearing stories about ridiculous attempts at scamming over email or phone I tend to forgot there are also scammers who are skilled at what they do. These people have presented a plausible scenario, they've been patient, and now they're waiting for your mother to take the bait. I'm not going to be critical that you feel tempted as I felt my greed tingle just reading your story, but in the end, stay away and show this article to your mother.

bacchi

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2018, 10:07:19 AM »
Lesson learned and your mom can sell the real piece of gold for $118.

Kitsunegari

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2018, 12:06:58 PM »
Here's the most profitable course of action:
1) tell these gentlemen you have to make sure the gold is not cursed and you will bring it to a clarvoyant
2) sell the piece they gave you
3) tell them the gold is indeed cursed and you want nothing to do with it or them
4) profit!
5) stay the F away from them. The'll be pissed.

CrustyBadger

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2018, 01:29:53 PM »
dragonwalker, here's another one that sounds even more similar to your mom's situation.  She was targeted as a business owner who might have assets.  It even describes the use of a note buried with the gold.

https://sfdistrictattorney.org/chinese-gold-scam-hits-streets-san-francisco

Quote
The modus operandi of the Gold Scammers has been consistent throughout the world, and the “gold” props they employ to deceive their victims appear similar.  The scam begins by either a telephone call or a visit to the victim by two to three suspects.  The language used has been the Chinese dialect of Mandarin, also known as Putonghua.  Evidence suggests that the victims are selectively targeted because of their perceived wealth since most of them have been successful business owners, professionals or public personalities who advertise or are known in the Chinese language media.

During the introduction, the suspects portray themselves as poor migrant laborers from Mainland China in need of help from a friendly local who speaks their language and is generous enough to lend assistance.  Having researched their intended victim, one of the suspects may even identify himself or herself with the same last name as the victim and suggests they have common ancestors to gain the victim’s trust.  The scammers tell of a tale that they are in the host country to work in construction, and during excavation they found a buried container which held a large amount of solid gold ingots (yuen bo) and/or solid gold Buddha statues along with a handwritten note.  Although the note is in Chinese, the scammers further appeal to their victim’s goodwill by stating they are illiterate and therefore need help from a trustworthy and prominent person to interpret the writing. 

Following the introduction, a meeting is held so the victim can inspect the gold and read the note.  The victim is impressed by the amount and the weight of the gold pieces.  The note, which is physically distressed to suggest it is very old, introduces its writer as someone who was living in the host country many decades ago (1800s to 1940s) and begs the finder to locate the writer’s son in Mainland China, give him one-half of the gold and keep one-half as a finder’s fee.  The scammers will work to convince the victim it is impossible to find the writer’s son in China, then they offer to sell the gold to the victim for a fraction of its value.  The scammers explain they are wary of bringing the gold back to China with them because they fear the port authorities will seize their treasure.  Before they end the meeting, they chip a piece of gold off one of the ingots in front of the victim and hand it to him/her for independent appraisal.  The victim believes the gold is genuine, and re-contacts the scammers.  They agree on a cash price and often the scammers will add urgency to the situation by stating that because their visas will be expiring in a few days, they need the cash immediately.   

After the exchange is made, the victim finds out the ingots and Buddha statues are made of worthless yellow metal.  Reported losses have ranged between thousands to hundreds of thousands of U.S. Dollars.



tralfamadorian

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2018, 07:25:07 PM »
If it seems too good to be true... The right thing to do is telling them to fuck off.

Remember greed is a deadly sin for a reason.

Indeed.

Except in cases of dementia, I don't feel bad for the people who fall for this shit. They're greedy and looking for a shortcut.

dragonwalker

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2018, 08:00:16 PM »
@crustybager, thanks so much for that article it's almost to the letter the same situation that my mom is in. I have called and sent her the information immediately. This will help to stop this silliness. I'm glad all I've wasted right now is just a little bit of time.

HPstache

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2018, 08:22:15 PM »
5-alarm scam.   Run!

EricL

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2018, 08:47:01 PM »
The posters citing it as an affinity scam hit the nail on the head. Affinity scams are a thing and not just for Chinese people.  There’s a “nice” Jewish man name Bernie rotting in jail who promised every Jewish person in reach he could beat the stock market.  Get your mom away from them as cleanly as possible. 

bwall

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2018, 05:45:42 AM »
You can contact the police and have them waiting at the time of the 'sale'. Arrest the criminals and get the bad guys off the street. That's an even better ending and will be a great story to tell for decades to come.

That is the best way for word to get out that they can't pull this scam anymore.

KBecks

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2018, 05:57:25 AM »
Just don't do it, and be very firm with your mom that she should not do this.

frugalnacho

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 08:01:04 PM »
No response.  Too busy swimming in all that gold.


markbike528CBX

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2018, 08:28:29 PM »

partgypsy

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2018, 12:08:10 PM »
Think about it. All these migrant workers need to do if they really had this gold is go to various coin shops or pawn shops and sell the gold at gold weight cost. These places do not ask for IDs or any receipts or evidence you own the items. You don't need to speak English. There is no benefit to these migrant workers to contact your mother if all they wanted is to off load the gold, except the obvious (they don't actually have the gold). 

Money Badger

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Re: Bizarre situation involving gold
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2018, 08:43:24 PM »
And while swimming... give them the GOOOOLLLLLDFIIIIINGERRRRR!  ;0
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 08:46:34 PM by Money Badger »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!