Author Topic: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )  (Read 318071 times)

sixwings

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1200 on: December 23, 2021, 02:52:11 PM »
So how many of these episodes happen before the USA is no longer considered a super power?

I feel like this is almost inevitable.

The US will always be a superpower, it will just not the the ONLY superpower. China is definitely working to rival the USA in military power. Since WW2 it's been a pretty interesting period where there was only 1 superpower, now other countries are catching up, which was inevitable.

PDXTabs

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1201 on: December 23, 2021, 02:54:15 PM »
So how many of these episodes happen before the USA is no longer considered a super power?

I feel like this is almost inevitable.

Well, the USSR withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989 and collapsed in 1991. So I'd say a matter of months at this point.

A super power or the super power? We'll be a super power for awhile even with these. We're already not the super power imo.

We'll be able to defend ourselves from China or Russia for a while (possibly a very very long time). But if we turn inward to increasing political strife while running increasingly large deficits and choose not to intervene overseas are we a superpower?

EDITed to add:

su·per·pow·er
noun
a very powerful and influential nation (used especially with reference to the US and the former Soviet Union when these were perceived as the two most powerful nations in the world).
- Oxford Languages
« Last Edit: December 23, 2021, 02:58:37 PM by PDXTabs »

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1202 on: December 23, 2021, 04:47:15 PM »
So how many of these episodes happen before the USA is no longer considered a super power?

I feel like this is almost inevitable.

Well, the USSR withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989 and collapsed in 1991. So I'd say a matter of months at this point.

A super power or the super power? We'll be a super power for awhile even with these. We're already not the super power imo.

We'll be able to defend ourselves from China or Russia for a while (possibly a very very long time). But if we turn inward to increasing political strife while running increasingly large deficits and choose not to intervene overseas are we a superpower?

EDITed to add:

su·per·pow·er
noun
a very powerful and influential nation (used especially with reference to the US and the former Soviet Union when these were perceived as the two most powerful nations in the world).
- Oxford Languages

I mean when given that definition, it's hard to definitively argue that we still are. I would say that comparatively speaking we are in the top 3 of influential nations in the world, but our influence is diminishing rapidly.

boarder42

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1203 on: December 23, 2021, 04:58:48 PM »
So how many of these episodes happen before the USA is no longer considered a super power?

I feel like this is almost inevitable.

Well, the USSR withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989 and collapsed in 1991. So I'd say a matter of months at this point.

A super power or the super power? We'll be a super power for awhile even with these. We're already not the super power imo.

We'll be able to defend ourselves from China or Russia for a while (possibly a very very long time). But if we turn inward to increasing political strife while running increasingly large deficits and choose not to intervene overseas are we a superpower?

EDITed to add:

su·per·pow·er
noun
a very powerful and influential nation (used especially with reference to the US and the former Soviet Union when these were perceived as the two most powerful nations in the world).
- Oxford Languages

I mean when given that definition, it's hard to definitively argue that we still are. I would say that comparatively speaking we are in the top 3 of influential nations in the world, but our influence is diminishing rapidly.

You said typing this on a phone or computer with an operating system owned by a us company bc no one uses anything else. Likely on a device sold by a us company.

PDXTabs

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1204 on: December 23, 2021, 05:04:25 PM »
You said typing this on a phone or computer with an operating system owned by a us company bc no one uses anything else. Likely on a device sold by a us company.

I can't speak for Wolfpack Mustachian, but I wrote my post from my Lenovo running Ubuntu Linux.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1205 on: December 23, 2021, 05:10:10 PM »
You said typing this on a phone or computer with an operating system owned by a us company bc no one uses anything else. Likely on a device sold by a us company.

I can't speak for Wolfpack Mustachian, but I wrote my post from my Lenovo running Ubuntu Linux.

Nice. I'm guilty as charged, though.

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1206 on: December 23, 2021, 05:13:46 PM »
So how many of these episodes happen before the USA is no longer considered a super power?

I feel like this is almost inevitable.

Well, the USSR withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989 and collapsed in 1991. So I'd say a matter of months at this point.

A super power or the super power? We'll be a super power for awhile even with these. We're already not the super power imo.

We'll be able to defend ourselves from China or Russia for a while (possibly a very very long time). But if we turn inward to increasing political strife while running increasingly large deficits and choose not to intervene overseas are we a superpower?

EDITed to add:

su·per·pow·er
noun
a very powerful and influential nation (used especially with reference to the US and the former Soviet Union when these were perceived as the two most powerful nations in the world).
- Oxford Languages

I mean when given that definition, it's hard to definitively argue that we still are. I would say that comparatively speaking we are in the top 3 of influential nations in the world, but our influence is diminishing rapidly.

You said typing this on a phone or computer with an operating system owned by a us company bc no one uses anything else. Likely on a device sold by a us company.

Both Europe and China have giant tech initiatives to develop Operating Systems for their respective continents.

And the #1 used operating system was created by a Finn.
Python was created in the Netherlands
Lua in Brazil
Ruby in Japan
PHP in Canada
The theory of computing was developed in Britain

And the #1 Android phone continues to be a Korean company (Samsung).

No, tech is not dominated by the US. The US certainly leads, but other countries are absolutely competing and succeeding even in the US market.

PDXTabs

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1207 on: December 23, 2021, 05:17:19 PM »
The theory of computing was developed in Britain

And the #1 Android phone continues to be a Korean company (Samsung).

No, tech is not dominated by the US. The US certainly leads, but other countries are absolutely competing and succeeding even in the US market.

Also ARM is from the UK and the current leading edge manufacturers of their processor cores are Samsung and TSMC.

EDITed to add: I'm not sure that tech is even lead by the USA. The USA might lead in cloud services, hookup apps, and media streaming. I'm not sure that is leading in tech.
EDIT2: Marketplace: China could soon surpass U.S. in crucial emerging technologies, [Harvard] report warns
« Last Edit: December 23, 2021, 05:34:57 PM by PDXTabs »

boarder42

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1208 on: December 23, 2021, 05:36:57 PM »
Yeah bet y'all are glad you own all those us tech companies at the top of the market cap then.

PDXTabs

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1209 on: December 23, 2021, 05:39:26 PM »
Yeah bet y'all are glad you own all those us tech companies at the top of the market cap then.

Absolutely, but what has FAANG innovated lately except a big money printer? Making money and leading tech (especially over the next 80 years) are two different things.

JoePublic3.14

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1210 on: December 23, 2021, 07:36:35 PM »
Yeah bet y'all are glad you own all those us tech companies at the top of the market cap then.

Absolutely, but what has FAANG innovated lately except a big money printer? Making money and leading tech (especially over the next 80 years) are two different things.

Yeah, but what’s more desirable, dollars or some tech lead title? I’ll go with the dollars, and I own a fair amount of non-US equities.

So long as no super power or want to be superpower invades us (Wolverines!) I’ll be fine with my market return. Market-ish though, because I don’t hold market cap across the globe.

sixwings

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1211 on: December 24, 2021, 09:56:42 AM »
So how many of these episodes happen before the USA is no longer considered a super power?

I feel like this is almost inevitable.

Well, the USSR withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989 and collapsed in 1991. So I'd say a matter of months at this point.

A super power or the super power? We'll be a super power for awhile even with these. We're already not the super power imo.

We'll be able to defend ourselves from China or Russia for a while (possibly a very very long time). But if we turn inward to increasing political strife while running increasingly large deficits and choose not to intervene overseas are we a superpower?

EDITed to add:

su·per·pow·er
noun
a very powerful and influential nation (used especially with reference to the US and the former Soviet Union when these were perceived as the two most powerful nations in the world).
- Oxford Languages

I mean when given that definition, it's hard to definitively argue that we still are. I would say that comparatively speaking we are in the top 3 of influential nations in the world, but our influence is diminishing rapidly.

You said typing this on a phone or computer with an operating system owned by a us company bc no one uses anything else. Likely on a device sold by a us company.

Shipped in a shipping lane completely controlled and protected by the US Navy.

The whole "US influence is diminishing" is nonsense. The US influence is actually probably growing. No other country has a stranglehold over the flow of goods and resources that the US military has, and as countries grow and develop they need goods to flow to them. It's just that the influence of other countries is also growing.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 09:59:21 AM by sixwings »

PDXTabs

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1212 on: December 24, 2021, 11:19:35 AM »
Yeah, but what’s more desirable, dollars or some tech lead title? I’ll go with the dollars, and I own a fair amount of non-US equities.

So long as no super power or want to be superpower invades us (Wolverines!) I’ll be fine with my market return. Market-ish though, because I don’t hold market cap across the globe.

I don't particularly care which free market democracy dominates tech as I'm global market cap weighted. But I absolutely don't want to see China dominate with complete control of stock ownership and other problems. The US invested tons of money for decades to get semiconductors and the internet. Now China is the one pouring money into tech research.

Shipped in a shipping lane completely controlled and protected by the US Navy.

The whole "US influence is diminishing" is nonsense. The US influence is actually probably growing. No other country has a stranglehold over the flow of goods and resources that the US military has, and as countries grow and develop they need goods to flow to them. It's just that the influence of other countries is also growing.

I agree entirely that the one area where the US does still dominate and exerts international influence is our Navy and freedom of navigation exercises.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 11:30:54 AM by PDXTabs »

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1213 on: December 24, 2021, 11:26:58 AM »
So how many of these episodes happen before the USA is no longer considered a super power?

I feel like this is almost inevitable.

Well, the USSR withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989 and collapsed in 1991. So I'd say a matter of months at this point.

A super power or the super power? We'll be a super power for awhile even with these. We're already not the super power imo.

We'll be able to defend ourselves from China or Russia for a while (possibly a very very long time). But if we turn inward to increasing political strife while running increasingly large deficits and choose not to intervene overseas are we a superpower?

EDITed to add:

su·per·pow·er
noun
a very powerful and influential nation (used especially with reference to the US and the former Soviet Union when these were perceived as the two most powerful nations in the world).
- Oxford Languages

I mean when given that definition, it's hard to definitively argue that we still are. I would say that comparatively speaking we are in the top 3 of influential nations in the world, but our influence is diminishing rapidly.

US GDP is about $20 trillion, China is about $13 trillion, #3 is Japan down at $5 trillion and Russia is at #11 at $1.5 trillion just below Canada and ahead of South Korea.

The only thing that ever made Russia a superpower was their outsized military relative to their economy and population.


People commonly throw around the statistic that the US spends more on our military than the next 10 countries combined. That's BS for multiple reasons such as the fact that an American soldier is paid multiple times what a Chinese Soldier is paid. However, it's very telling from an influence standpoint. I found an article saying a Colonel in Beijing would be paid about $3,200 per month (20,000 yuan) - plus presumably some benefits like housing that would bring that to an equivalent of $40-50k/year. A Colonel (typically would command a few thousand people) in the American military will be paid about $120k in base salary alone and if they were stationed in Washington D.C. would get an annual housing allowance (completely tax free mind you) of about $40k/year. With other benefits (free medical, etc.) that's more like $170k+ or about 4x their Chinese equivalent.

English is the most common second language in the world with dozens of countries teaching it to most students. American culture/media dominates the rest of the world. How many Chinese or Russian movies, tv shows, songs, etc. are exported compared to their American equivalent? That's pretty influential and has been for many decades. Does a bright kid from Nigeria or Paraguay dream of going to a university in America or China? Where do people try to immigrate to? It's not Russia unless you're trying to get out of somewhere even poorer like Tajikistan.

US-developed technology dominates the world. Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Tesla, Amazon, Visa, Intel, Oracle, Qualcomm, etc.

China is certainly catching up - though I question how much of that GDP will evaporate if/when people finally realize the emperor has no clothes and their life savings that have been invested in an empty apartment in a poorly-constructed building is not worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. The Chinese real estate market is the largest asset class in the world, but a lot of it has been propped up by the government and is a huge bubble waiting to burst. Developers can only build so many empty buildings and sell them to investors. The second largest real estate developer in China, Evergrande, is in default and is on the verge of bankruptcy. They can't find enough suckers to put a deposit on a new apartment when they have thousands of unfinished projects they can't afford to finish. They can't borrow on the open market and all of the shadow banking is drying up as well.

PDXTabs

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1214 on: December 24, 2021, 11:39:54 AM »
English is the most common second language in the world with dozens of countries teaching it to most students. American culture/media dominates the rest of the world. How many Chinese or Russian movies, tv shows, songs, etc. are exported compared to their American equivalent? That's pretty influential and has been for many decades. Does a bright kid from Nigeria or Paraguay dream of going to a university in America or China? Where do people try to immigrate to? It's not Russia unless you're trying to get out of somewhere even poorer like Tajikistan.

Indeed, today. But I think that we could have said the same thing about Portugal, Spain, France, and the UK over the centuries. Superpowers have a habit of falling out of power.

US-developed technology dominates the world. Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Tesla, Amazon, Visa, Intel, Oracle, Qualcomm, etc.

Google has certainly done very real things since its founding. What have they done in the last 10 years besides monetize ad revenue and maybe kick out a frontend framework here and there? Intel is increasingly irrelevant. Do you know where all the current Apple chips are manufactured? Taiwan. Should we let China take that factory?

EDITed to add: can we just make Taiwan a state? Then the USA really would dominate tech in the world.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 11:48:58 AM by PDXTabs »

Just Joe

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1215 on: December 26, 2021, 08:40:07 PM »
I can't speak for Wolfpack Mustachian, but I wrote my post from my Lenovo running Ubuntu Linux.

Haha - I cruise the web on a decade old Samsung running Kubuntu Linux. I'll switch to a Linux powered phone when one is available and mature. No, the Pine phone isn't quite there.

I guess I meant how long until we aren't the #1 superpower. Our country's influence fades from failed promises and political strife. Once upon a time we were the best at alot of things. Now many highly technical things can come from China for a fraction of the cost of American things. I can pay $1500+ for an American brand welding machine for example or I can buy a $250 Chinese alternative that uses the same welding consumables. It doesn't matter that it is a hobbyist grade machine - that is a sale the American companies did not make. There are many similar examples.

Meanwhile China is investing heavily around the globe. Africa is an easy example. The US government makes promises about military support while the Chinese are building infrastructure projects for other countries.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2021, 08:46:04 PM by Just Joe »

LennStar

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1216 on: December 27, 2021, 08:17:11 AM »
The theory of computing was developed in Britain

And the #1 Android phone continues to be a Korean company (Samsung).

No, tech is not dominated by the US. The US certainly leads, but other countries are absolutely competing and succeeding even in the US market.

Also ARM is from the UK and the current leading edge manufacturers of their processor cores are Samsung and TSMC.

EDITed to add: I'm not sure that tech is even lead by the USA. The USA might lead in cloud services, hookup apps, and media streaming. I'm not sure that is leading in tech.
EDIT2: Marketplace: China could soon surpass U.S. in crucial emerging technologies, [Harvard] report warns

Quote
No other country has a stranglehold over the flow of goods and resources that the US military has

TSMC produces so many computer chips, if China attacks Taiwan, this will be the reason the US goes to war.

And for more fun: The only company in the whole fucking world that makes the machines which you need to build chip production lines is a German one. And the foil needed in the process of producing chips is also only produced by a single company: aji-no-moto, better known as the producer of glutamat.

pecunia

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1217 on: December 27, 2021, 10:19:50 AM »
I've been watching these biased videos.  Lots of bad news about China.  I do take it with a grain of salt.  However, there are some things working against China.

- They had this one child policy for a long time.  Now their people are aging and like some other countries a Demographic difficulty may be coming as there will be a skewed distribution of older people.  The party is trying to get people to have three kids now, but folks just can't afford it so it it's not panning out for them.

- Although they have achieved some miracles of infrastructure, they have cut corners.  They have instances of big sinkholes in roads, bad concrete, rebar neglected, buildings falling over, and some buildings had to be demolished.  Unlike the Japanese, they don't have the quality thing down pat.  In the long term, stuff could fall apart before it's time.

- Apparently, their economy has somewhat of a basis on real estate.  They don't have property tax.  This means local governments are financed by land sales.  (I don't know the exact mechanism.)  So - This has resulted in the empty blocks of office buildings and ugly concrete apartments.  Real Estate bubble may burst with a lot of money lost.  Some big real estate companies have defaulted.

- The Communist party is asserting the old time values.  They are changing the rules that allowed some of their people to become rich.  This has scared off some foreign investors.  This has even scared their own people so it looks like capital is flowing abroad.

- The Australia thing with the coal has slowed their industries.  This coupled with the Covid is causing an economic slowdown to the Chinese economic train.

- Japan has been paying it's companies to leave China, but the economies are highly intertwined so I'm not sure what that will amount to.

- Many companies are adopting a "China+1" policy due to supply chain issues.  This means that items manufactured in China may now move to Vietnam, India or the Phillipines.

- US has adopted a law to prevent items built in one province that uses slave labor from being imported.

- The Trump rules against China have not been repealed.

- The Belt and Road initiative has seen mixed results.  Some projects cannot be finished due to a lack of capital.  Some projects were not practical investments.  This initiative enabled the Chinese to use the skills of the laborers who have been building the massive infrastructure of China but in many cases did not help the local residents of the country in which the infrastructure was built. 

- Their labor rate is now becoming higher than some of the other countries which may also do manufacturing.

- They've greatly manipulated the Democratic process in Hong Kong.  This may have adverse future repercussions.

- Amazon blocked several of their major suppliers because there is an industry in China to write favorable reviews for products featured in Amazon.  Amazon did not like these fake reviews.

-  Many Wal-Marts in China have closed.  Wal Mart denies the rumors that they are looking for suppliers alternate to China.

I'm not saying that they won't continue being the economic juggernaut that they've been, but they have a lot of problems.  They have 1.4 billion people to feed and house.  They depend on the world for many resources.  Their policies towards other countries have ruffled feathers and the chicken may be coming home to roost.



Michael in ABQ

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1218 on: December 27, 2021, 10:26:39 AM »
I can't speak for Wolfpack Mustachian, but I wrote my post from my Lenovo running Ubuntu Linux.

Haha - I cruise the web on a decade old Samsung running Kubuntu Linux. I'll switch to a Linux powered phone when one is available and mature. No, the Pine phone isn't quite there.

I guess I meant how long until we aren't the #1 superpower. Our country's influence fades from failed promises and political strife. Once upon a time we were the best at alot of things. Now many highly technical things can come from China for a fraction of the cost of American things. I can pay $1500+ for an American brand welding machine for example or I can buy a $250 Chinese alternative that uses the same welding consumables. It doesn't matter that it is a hobbyist grade machine - that is a sale the American companies did not make. There are many similar examples.

Meanwhile China is investing heavily around the globe. Africa is an easy example. The US government makes promises about military support while the Chinese are building infrastructure projects for other countries.

China has become the world's factory for a lot of things. However, they can't build an iPhone without chips from America and Taiwan. Some of their largest electronics companies almost went out of business when the US temporarily added them to a sanctions list. They were able to use a stockpile of chips but once those ran out they were going to be SOL until their local industry could catch up.


Many of those investments China is making in Africa and elsewhere are not profitable, or very marginally profitable. Especially when you factor in how much bribery and graft goes on when you spend hundreds of millions of dollars in a poor African country. Is a billion-dollar railroad going to generate a return on investment adequate to account for the risk of the government defaulting or just nationalizing the asset? There's a reason most western companies won't touch those projects. But for China it's a way to generate orders for locomotives and steel and use up their excess industrial capacity - plus bringing in thousands of migrant workers - rather than using local labor. When I was in Djibouti - where China is spending billions of infrastructure projects - there was a local news story about the Chinese construction company offering 200 francs (a little more than $1) per day for local workers on the billion-dollar railroad connecting the ports in Djibouti to landlocked Ethiopia. Even though unemployment is probably 20-30% and the average person lives on only a few dollars a day, many workers were insulted by such low wages and wouldn't work for them.

Travis

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1219 on: December 27, 2021, 05:18:01 PM »
Quote
- Apparently, their economy has somewhat of a basis on real estate.  They don't have property tax.  This means local governments are financed by land sales.  (I don't know the exact mechanism.)  So - This has resulted in the empty blocks of office buildings and ugly concrete apartments.  Real Estate bubble may burst with a lot of money lost.  Some big real estate companies have defaulted.

For quite a while China gave regional governors GDP targets each year. A common tactic in coastal provinces was to build factories and apartment blocks with government loans even if there was no demand for those buildings. On paper they generated millions in economic productivity, but those towns are vacant.

Just Joe

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1220 on: December 27, 2021, 08:48:13 PM »
Many of those investments China is making in Africa and elsewhere are not profitable, or very marginally profitable.

Thanks for the perspective.

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1221 on: December 29, 2021, 08:57:52 AM »
Biden now says it's the states problem to fix covid and oops the cabinets were bare and no way to see a need for increased testing availability going into the holidays!   Hmmm, reminds me of some large orange idiot of days gone by!

nereo

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1222 on: December 29, 2021, 09:46:00 AM »
Biden now says it's the states problem to fix covid and oops the cabinets were bare and no way to see a need for increased testing availability going into the holidays!   Hmmm, reminds me of some large orange idiot of days gone by!
That doesn’t even remotely resemble the statements I’ve seen coming from the WH.

Kris

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1223 on: December 29, 2021, 10:45:26 AM »
Biden now says it's the states problem to fix covid and oops the cabinets were bare and no way to see a need for increased testing availability going into the holidays!   Hmmm, reminds me of some large orange idiot of days gone by!
That doesn’t even remotely resemble the statements I’ve seen coming from the WH.

Well, you know what they say. Don't let reality get in the way of your dearly held beliefs, tooqk. *eye roll*

nereo

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1224 on: December 29, 2021, 11:19:43 AM »
Biden now says it's the states problem to fix covid and oops the cabinets were bare and no way to see a need for increased testing availability going into the holidays!   Hmmm, reminds me of some large orange idiot of days gone by!
That doesn’t even remotely resemble the statements I’ve seen coming from the WH.

Well, you know what they say. Don't let reality get in the way of your dearly held beliefs, tooqk. *eye roll*

Transcript of the full remarks here:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/12/21/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-fight-against-covid-19/

Critical to the claim made above:
Quote from: Biden
One of the other things that we know that has to be done is more testing.  Because Omicron spreads easily, especially among the unvaccinated, it’s critically important that we know who’s infected.  That means we need more testing.

Starting this week, the federal government will set up emergency testing sites in areas that need additional testing capacity.  Before Christmas, the first several of these federal testing sites will be up and running in New York City with many more to come.

This free testing is going to help reduce the waiting lines — the time you have to stand there and — and sometimes it’s an hour or more.

We’re going to continue to add federal testing sites where needed so that if you want an immediate test, there will be a place where you can go get it.

We also need to do better with at-home testing.  So, I’m announcing today: The federal government will purchase one half billion — that’s not million; billion with a “B” — additional at-home rapid tests, with deliveries starting in January.

We’ll be getting these tests to Americans for free.  And we’ll have websites where you can get them delivered to your home.

We have arranged for it to be easier for you to find a free COVID testing site near you on Google.  Just enter “COVID test near me” in the Google search bar and you can find a number of different locations nearby where you can get tested.

And we’re going to continue to use the Defense Production Act as we did earlier this month to make sure we’re producing as many tests and as quickly as possible.

gentmach

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1225 on: December 29, 2021, 11:24:08 AM »
Biden now says it's the states problem to fix covid and oops the cabinets were bare and no way to see a need for increased testing availability going into the holidays!   Hmmm, reminds me of some large orange idiot of days gone by!
That doesn’t even remotely resemble the statements I’ve seen coming from the WH.

Well, you know what they say. Don't let reality get in the way of your dearly held beliefs, tooqk. *eye roll*

Transcript of the full remarks here:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/12/21/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-fight-against-covid-19/

Critical to the claim made above:
Quote from: Biden
One of the other things that we know that has to be done is more testing.  Because Omicron spreads easily, especially among the unvaccinated, it’s critically important that we know who’s infected.  That means we need more testing.

Starting this week, the federal government will set up emergency testing sites in areas that need additional testing capacity.  Before Christmas, the first several of these federal testing sites will be up and running in New York City with many more to come.

This free testing is going to help reduce the waiting lines — the time you have to stand there and — and sometimes it’s an hour or more.

We’re going to continue to add federal testing sites where needed so that if you want an immediate test, there will be a place where you can go get it.

We also need to do better with at-home testing.  So, I’m announcing today: The federal government will purchase one half billion — that’s not million; billion with a “B” — additional at-home rapid tests, with deliveries starting in January.

We’ll be getting these tests to Americans for free.  And we’ll have websites where you can get them delivered to your home.

We have arranged for it to be easier for you to find a free COVID testing site near you on Google.  Just enter “COVID test near me” in the Google search bar and you can find a number of different locations nearby where you can get tested.

And we’re going to continue to use the Defense Production Act as we did earlier this month to make sure we’re producing as many tests and as quickly as possible.

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1226 on: December 29, 2021, 11:37:46 AM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1227 on: December 29, 2021, 01:11:47 PM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1228 on: December 29, 2021, 02:21:29 PM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

That’s an entirely different sentiment from your earlier statement that Biden sees “[no] need for increased testing availability going into the holidays”.

I don’t understand the analogy of this administration being handed the keys to a Ferrari (etc).  Biden took office in Jan 20; new cases were at an all time high and public trust in our CDC had dropped to an all time low (I’d argue almost entirely due to Trump). Testing capacity was a fraction of what it was now.

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1229 on: December 29, 2021, 03:08:31 PM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

That’s an entirely different sentiment from your earlier statement that Biden sees “[no] need for increased testing availability going into the holidays”.

I don’t understand the analogy of this administration being handed the keys to a Ferrari (etc).  Biden took office in Jan 20; new cases were at an all time high and public trust in our CDC had dropped to an all time low (I’d argue almost entirely due to Trump). Testing capacity was a fraction of what it was now.

To really understand the sentiment, you've just got to listen to some right wing radio.

gentmach

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1230 on: December 29, 2021, 03:13:46 PM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

That’s an entirely different sentiment from your earlier statement that Biden sees “[no] need for increased testing availability going into the holidays”.

I don’t understand the analogy of this administration being handed the keys to a Ferrari (etc).  Biden took office in Jan 20; new cases were at an all time high and public trust in our CDC had dropped to an all time low (I’d argue almost entirely due to Trump). Testing capacity was a fraction of what it was now.

If Trump was truly the only thing crippling the response then swapping Biden in should have kicked everything into overdrive. After all Biden "Had a plan" to deal with the pandemic and would "listen to the experts."

That's what he means about the Ferrari. That Biden had the vaccine ready, the experts would no longer be hamstrung, a federal mask mandate and a vaccine mandate would be ordered. All Biden needed to do was say "Go."

Unfortunately the Ferrari wasn't a Ferrari in this case, but rather a Ford Edsel, which was an abomination against the Lord.

nereo

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1231 on: December 29, 2021, 03:46:48 PM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

That’s an entirely different sentiment from your earlier statement that Biden sees “[no] need for increased testing availability going into the holidays”.

I don’t understand the analogy of this administration being handed the keys to a Ferrari (etc).  Biden took office in Jan 20; new cases were at an all time high and public trust in our CDC had dropped to an all time low (I’d argue almost entirely due to Trump). Testing capacity was a fraction of what it was now.

If Trump was truly the only thing crippling the response then swapping Biden in should have kicked everything into overdrive. After all Biden "Had a plan" to deal with the pandemic and would "listen to the experts."

That's what he means about the Ferrari. That Biden had the vaccine ready, the experts would no longer be hamstrung, a federal mask mandate and a vaccine mandate would be ordered. All Biden needed to do was say "Go."

Unfortunately the Ferrari wasn't a Ferrari in this case, but rather a Ford Edsel, which was an abomination against the Lord.

Biden dropped the ball getting tests more widely available and free to consumers. Thankfully it seems that is being addressed, though it should have come back in November.
…but - conditions matter too. You can’t walk into a situation where things have never been worse and the previous administration has hardened a sizeable subset of the population against the most impactful measures and say “it’s all on you now!” 
EVen more to the point, you can’t claim a person has said one thing when in fact they said the polar opposite. Biden’s got a lot to own up to and a heck of a lot to correct - there’s no need for posters to make easily debunked claims.  Reality gives us enough to criticize.

gentmach

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1232 on: December 29, 2021, 04:15:57 PM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

That’s an entirely different sentiment from your earlier statement that Biden sees “[no] need for increased testing availability going into the holidays”.

I don’t understand the analogy of this administration being handed the keys to a Ferrari (etc).  Biden took office in Jan 20; new cases were at an all time high and public trust in our CDC had dropped to an all time low (I’d argue almost entirely due to Trump). Testing capacity was a fraction of what it was now.

If Trump was truly the only thing crippling the response then swapping Biden in should have kicked everything into overdrive. After all Biden "Had a plan" to deal with the pandemic and would "listen to the experts."

That's what he means about the Ferrari. That Biden had the vaccine ready, the experts would no longer be hamstrung, a federal mask mandate and a vaccine mandate would be ordered. All Biden needed to do was say "Go."

Unfortunately the Ferrari wasn't a Ferrari in this case, but rather a Ford Edsel, which was an abomination against the Lord.

Biden dropped the ball getting tests more widely available and free to consumers. Thankfully it seems that is being addressed, though it should have come back in November.
…but - conditions matter too. You can’t walk into a situation where things have never been worse and the previous administration has hardened a sizeable subset of the population against the most impactful measures and say “it’s all on you now!” 
EVen more to the point, you can’t claim a person has said one thing when in fact they said the polar opposite. Biden’s got a lot to own up to and a heck of a lot to correct - there’s no need for posters to make easily debunked claims.  Reality gives us enough to criticize.

Looking at what Tooqk said it seems like he more or less agrees with you. That Biden was lulled into complacency by the summer and now playing catch up.

Biden now says it's the states problem to fix covid and oops the cabinets were bare and no way to see a need for increased testing availability going into the holidays!   Hmmm, reminds me of some large orange idiot of days gone by!


The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

His was more brusque and allegorical than yours.

JoePublic3.14

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1233 on: December 29, 2021, 05:03:46 PM »
Biden now says it's the states problem to fix covid and oops the cabinets were bare and no way to see a need for increased testing availability going into the holidays!   Hmmm, reminds me of some large orange idiot of days gone by!
That doesn’t even remotely resemble the statements I’ve seen coming from the WH.

Well, you know what they say. Don't let reality get in the way of your dearly held beliefs, tooqk. *eye roll*

Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind. All of us guilty of it, but only some of us recognize and admit it. *shoulder shrug *

Kris

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1234 on: December 29, 2021, 05:05:18 PM »
Biden now says it's the states problem to fix covid and oops the cabinets were bare and no way to see a need for increased testing availability going into the holidays!   Hmmm, reminds me of some large orange idiot of days gone by!
That doesn’t even remotely resemble the statements I’ve seen coming from the WH.

Well, you know what they say. Don't let reality get in the way of your dearly held beliefs, tooqk. *eye roll*

Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind. All of us guilty of it, but only some of us recognize and admit it. *shoulder shrug *

Hmm… so are you one of those who admit it?

On topic, I have plenty to criticize Biden for, but I try to keep it in the realm of things he has actually done (or not done).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 05:08:14 PM by Kris »

Abe

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1235 on: December 29, 2021, 07:31:11 PM »
Rapid in-home tests are less accurate, especially for asymptomatic people (false-negative rate of 30% vs <5%). It is well established that self-performed swabs compared to swabs performed by trained personnel have a much higher false negative rate, irrespective of the organism being tested for. Thus the emphasis was on expanding more accurate testing through labs. I personally think the push for in-home testing is a wasteful gamble due to their poor performance characteristics and false reassurance. Since most of these are Elisa antibody tests, there is a risk of a higher false negative rate with omicron. I would not switch tactics right now.


Regarding availability of testing - that has been the purview of the state health agencies for most of the pandemic. Pinning lack of available tests on Biden rather than the multiple factors that go into procuring and distributing tests is plain partisanship. The difference between Trump and Biden is that the latter doesn’t have his head in the sand and is providing guidance in line with health experts much as a figurehead should do. If states and people willfully ignore advice and go travel for the holidays during a surge, there’s not much either president can do about it. As free citizens, we are free to do dumb things.
I also don’t think we as taxpayers should have to pay for the tests at this point, as there is already a government-subsidized solution to this problem.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 07:40:15 PM by Abe »

tooqk4u22

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1236 on: December 29, 2021, 09:01:16 PM »
Rapid in-home tests are less accurate, especially for asymptomatic people (false-negative rate of 30% vs <5%). It is well established that self-performed swabs compared to swabs performed by trained personnel have a much higher false negative rate, irrespective of the organism being tested for. Thus the emphasis was on expanding more accurate testing through labs. I personally think the push for in-home testing is a wasteful gamble due to their poor performance characteristics and false reassurance. Since most of these are Elisa antibody tests, there is a risk of a higher false negative rate with omicron. I would not switch tactics right now.


Regarding availability of testing - that has been the purview of the state health agencies for most of the pandemic. Pinning lack of available tests on Biden rather than the multiple factors that go into procuring and distributing tests is plain partisanship. The difference between Trump and Biden is that the latter doesn’t have his head in the sand and is providing guidance in line with health experts much as a figurehead should do. If states and people willfully ignore advice and go travel for the holidays during a surge, there’s not much either president can do about it. As free citizens, we are free to do dumb things.
I also don’t think we as taxpayers should have to pay for the tests at this point, as there is already a government-subsidized solution to this problem.

I generally agree with all of this but I think some of the false negative can be attributes to user error (not swabbing enough) but yeah it seems that there are many false negatives initially for symptomatic people then a day or more later they are positive, let alone asymptomatic.  And the reason why the at home test comes with two is just for this reason, you take the test and then in a day or two you take the other.....one pack is essentially one test done in two parts not two tests as most are using them for and the binaxnow instructions basically say that false negatives are
common.

Basically if you have symptoms then you have it! 

gentmach

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1237 on: December 30, 2021, 05:26:46 AM »
Rapid in-home tests are less accurate, especially for asymptomatic people (false-negative rate of 30% vs <5%). It is well established that self-performed swabs compared to swabs performed by trained personnel have a much higher false negative rate, irrespective of the organism being tested for. Thus the emphasis was on expanding more accurate testing through labs. I personally think the push for in-home testing is a wasteful gamble due to their poor performance characteristics and false reassurance. Since most of these are Elisa antibody tests, there is a risk of a higher false negative rate with omicron. I would not switch tactics right now.


Regarding availability of testing - that has been the purview of the state health agencies for most of the pandemic. Pinning lack of available tests on Biden rather than the multiple factors that go into procuring and distributing tests is plain partisanship. The difference between Trump and Biden is that the latter doesn’t have his head in the sand and is providing guidance in line with health experts much as a figurehead should do. If states and people willfully ignore advice and go travel for the holidays during a surge, there’s not much either president can do about it. As free citizens, we are free to do dumb things.
I also don’t think we as taxpayers should have to pay for the tests at this point, as there is already a government-subsidized solution to this problem.
It is more likely that people are disillusioned now since Biden said "You can take off the masks" back in May but now things are worse than ever.

Seemingly worse than ever.

Kris

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1238 on: December 30, 2021, 06:31:09 AM »
Rapid in-home tests are less accurate, especially for asymptomatic people (false-negative rate of 30% vs <5%). It is well established that self-performed swabs compared to swabs performed by trained personnel have a much higher false negative rate, irrespective of the organism being tested for. Thus the emphasis was on expanding more accurate testing through labs. I personally think the push for in-home testing is a wasteful gamble due to their poor performance characteristics and false reassurance. Since most of these are Elisa antibody tests, there is a risk of a higher false negative rate with omicron. I would not switch tactics right now.


Regarding availability of testing - that has been the purview of the state health agencies for most of the pandemic. Pinning lack of available tests on Biden rather than the multiple factors that go into procuring and distributing tests is plain partisanship. The difference between Trump and Biden is that the latter doesn’t have his head in the sand and is providing guidance in line with health experts much as a figurehead should do. If states and people willfully ignore advice and go travel for the holidays during a surge, there’s not much either president can do about it. As free citizens, we are free to do dumb things.
I also don’t think we as taxpayers should have to pay for the tests at this point, as there is already a government-subsidized solution to this problem.
It is more likely that people are disillusioned now since Biden said "You can take off the masks" back in May but now things are worse than ever.

Seemingly worse than ever.

Anyone who is disillusioned by this info is paying no attention at all to why things are worse.

jinga nation

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1239 on: December 30, 2021, 08:26:06 AM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

No. The problem is the Ferrari. Unreliable over-priced FIAT (Fix It Again Tony).
Now, if it was Red Bull Honda... would need just one with MaxV33 in control.
A LH44 or VB77 MB would still get to the finish line holding head high.

Having worked as a contractor in gov agencies for 17 years, gov "efficiency" is a thing... there's so much red-tape and lawyers and analysis paralysis. Moving deadlines to the right is always option 1.

The "best people" are generally not in gov positions, which is why they ask contractors or subject-matter experts (oh, i do hate that all-encompassing term). But when gov gets those external inputs, they doubt it and proceed to internally reverify. This delay causes loss of momentum. Par for the course.

pecunia

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1240 on: December 30, 2021, 08:37:21 AM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

No. The problem is the Ferrari. Unreliable over-priced FIAT (Fix It Again Tony).
Now, if it was Red Bull Honda... would need just one with MaxV33 in control.
A LH44 or VB77 MB would still get to the finish line holding head high.

Having worked as a contractor in gov agencies for 17 years, gov "efficiency" is a thing... there's so much red-tape and lawyers and analysis paralysis. Moving deadlines to the right is always option 1.

The "best people" are generally not in gov positions, which is why they ask contractors or subject-matter experts (oh, i do hate that all-encompassing term). But when gov gets those external inputs, they doubt it and proceed to internally reverify. This delay causes loss of momentum. Par for the course.

I can kind of see why they go slow.  If they speed it up and mistakes are made, they are red meat for political carnivores.  There are MANY political carnivores.

Cool Friend

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1241 on: December 30, 2021, 09:18:28 AM »
Rapid in-home tests are less accurate, especially for asymptomatic people (false-negative rate of 30% vs <5%). It is well established that self-performed swabs compared to swabs performed by trained personnel have a much higher false negative rate, irrespective of the organism being tested for. Thus the emphasis was on expanding more accurate testing through labs. I personally think the push for in-home testing is a wasteful gamble due to their poor performance characteristics and false reassurance. Since most of these are Elisa antibody tests, there is a risk of a higher false negative rate with omicron. I would not switch tactics right now.


Regarding availability of testing - that has been the purview of the state health agencies for most of the pandemic. Pinning lack of available tests on Biden rather than the multiple factors that go into procuring and distributing tests is plain partisanship. The difference between Trump and Biden is that the latter doesn’t have his head in the sand and is providing guidance in line with health experts much as a figurehead should do. If states and people willfully ignore advice and go travel for the holidays during a surge, there’s not much either president can do about it. As free citizens, we are free to do dumb things.
I also don’t think we as taxpayers should have to pay for the tests at this point, as there is already a government-subsidized solution to this problem.
It is more likely that people are disillusioned now since Biden said "You can take off the masks" back in May but now things are worse than ever.

Seemingly worse than ever.

Anyone who is disillusioned by this info is paying no attention at all to why things are worse.

Yeah I would be disillusioned too if I had somehow managed to not learn a single fucking thing in the past 2 years.

sui generis

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1242 on: December 30, 2021, 11:22:45 AM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

No. The problem is the Ferrari. Unreliable over-priced FIAT (Fix It Again Tony).
Now, if it was Red Bull Honda... would need just one with MaxV33 in control.
A LH44 or VB77 MB would still get to the finish line holding head high.

Having worked as a contractor in gov agencies for 17 years, gov "efficiency" is a thing... there's so much red-tape and lawyers and analysis paralysis. Moving deadlines to the right is always option 1.

The "best people" are generally not in gov positions, which is why they ask contractors or subject-matter experts (oh, i do hate that all-encompassing term). But when gov gets those external inputs, they doubt it and proceed to internally reverify. This delay causes loss of momentum. Par for the course.

I can kind of see why they go slow.  If they speed it up and mistakes are made, they are red meat for political carnivores.  There are MANY political carnivores.

That's democracy for you. 

And everything goes slow because we have such a litigious society and they are trying (and failing) to cover their bases before the lawsuits come, and also because public input and elected input is required frequently.  It's both a feature and a bug. 

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1243 on: December 30, 2021, 11:30:31 AM »
Rapid in-home tests are less accurate, especially for asymptomatic people (false-negative rate of 30% vs <5%). It is well established that self-performed swabs compared to swabs performed by trained personnel have a much higher false negative rate, irrespective of the organism being tested for. Thus the emphasis was on expanding more accurate testing through labs. I personally think the push for in-home testing is a wasteful gamble due to their poor performance characteristics and false reassurance. Since most of these are Elisa antibody tests, there is a risk of a higher false negative rate with omicron. I would not switch tactics right now.


Regarding availability of testing - that has been the purview of the state health agencies for most of the pandemic. Pinning lack of available tests on Biden rather than the multiple factors that go into procuring and distributing tests is plain partisanship. The difference between Trump and Biden is that the latter doesn’t have his head in the sand and is providing guidance in line with health experts much as a figurehead should do. If states and people willfully ignore advice and go travel for the holidays during a surge, there’s not much either president can do about it. As free citizens, we are free to do dumb things.
I also don’t think we as taxpayers should have to pay for the tests at this point, as there is already a government-subsidized solution to this problem.
It is more likely that people are disillusioned now since Biden said "You can take off the masks" back in May but now things are worse than ever.

Seemingly worse than ever.

Anyone who is disillusioned by this info is paying no attention at all to why things are worse.

When does Biden get to take ownership of the crisis? Serious question. We are nearly a year in to his term.

PDXTabs

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1244 on: December 30, 2021, 11:47:55 AM »
Rapid in-home tests are less accurate, especially for asymptomatic people (false-negative rate of 30% vs <5%). It is well established that self-performed swabs compared to swabs performed by trained personnel have a much higher false negative rate, irrespective of the organism being tested for. Thus the emphasis was on expanding more accurate testing through labs. I personally think the push for in-home testing is a wasteful gamble due to their poor performance characteristics and false reassurance. Since most of these are Elisa antibody tests, there is a risk of a higher false negative rate with omicron. I would not switch tactics right now.

How good are the self administered drive-through ones where the staff just looks at you? Do you think that Germany and the UK pursuing at home testing is a mistake? Axios: The ongoing U.S. failure on rapid COVID tests.

Regarding availability of testing - that has been the purview of the state health agencies for most of the pandemic. Pinning lack of available tests on Biden rather than the multiple factors that go into procuring and distributing tests is plain partisanship. The difference between Trump and Biden is that the latter doesn’t have his head in the sand and is providing guidance in line with health experts much as a figurehead should do. If states and people willfully ignore advice and go travel for the holidays during a surge, there’s not much either president can do about it. As free citizens, we are free to do dumb things.
I also don’t think we as taxpayers should have to pay for the tests at this point, as there is already a government-subsidized solution to this problem.

Obviously health care in the USA is totally fucked, but blaming Trump and not Biden seems like plain partisanship to me. To be fair Biden can't unilaterally fix health care in the USA, but has he done anything to fix any of the huge broken bureaucracy that we deal with in this country? Because the Democrats control both chambers of congress right now.

“The sheer, cussed complexity of how we finance health care in this country creates unexpected challenges,” Nicholas Bagley, a health-care expert and law professor at the University of Michigan, told me. - The Atlantic: Why America Can’t Test Like Europe

Given that multiple Democrats ran on platforms of fixing this, and Biden didn't, I'll happily blame him for business as usual in US health care.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 12:09:03 PM by PDXTabs »

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1245 on: December 30, 2021, 12:33:06 PM »
Rapid in-home tests are less accurate, especially for asymptomatic people (false-negative rate of 30% vs <5%). It is well established that self-performed swabs compared to swabs performed by trained personnel have a much higher false negative rate, irrespective of the organism being tested for. Thus the emphasis was on expanding more accurate testing through labs. I personally think the push for in-home testing is a wasteful gamble due to their poor performance characteristics and false reassurance. Since most of these are Elisa antibody tests, there is a risk of a higher false negative rate with omicron. I would not switch tactics right now.


Regarding availability of testing - that has been the purview of the state health agencies for most of the pandemic. Pinning lack of available tests on Biden rather than the multiple factors that go into procuring and distributing tests is plain partisanship. The difference between Trump and Biden is that the latter doesn’t have his head in the sand and is providing guidance in line with health experts much as a figurehead should do. If states and people willfully ignore advice and go travel for the holidays during a surge, there’s not much either president can do about it. As free citizens, we are free to do dumb things.
I also don’t think we as taxpayers should have to pay for the tests at this point, as there is already a government-subsidized solution to this problem.
It is more likely that people are disillusioned now since Biden said "You can take off the masks" back in May but now things are worse than ever.

Seemingly worse than ever.

Anyone who is disillusioned by this info is paying no attention at all to why things are worse.

When does Biden get to take ownership of the crisis? Serious question. We are nearly a year in to his term.

I admit that I thought Trump was bad in some aspects regarding the pademics, but then Biden came along, and incompetence goes to a new level.

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1246 on: December 30, 2021, 01:02:12 PM »
Rapid in-home tests are less accurate, especially for asymptomatic people (false-negative rate of 30% vs <5%). It is well established that self-performed swabs compared to swabs performed by trained personnel have a much higher false negative rate, irrespective of the organism being tested for. Thus the emphasis was on expanding more accurate testing through labs. I personally think the push for in-home testing is a wasteful gamble due to their poor performance characteristics and false reassurance. Since most of these are Elisa antibody tests, there is a risk of a higher false negative rate with omicron. I would not switch tactics right now.


Regarding availability of testing - that has been the purview of the state health agencies for most of the pandemic. Pinning lack of available tests on Biden rather than the multiple factors that go into procuring and distributing tests is plain partisanship. The difference between Trump and Biden is that the latter doesn’t have his head in the sand and is providing guidance in line with health experts much as a figurehead should do. If states and people willfully ignore advice and go travel for the holidays during a surge, there’s not much either president can do about it. As free citizens, we are free to do dumb things.
I also don’t think we as taxpayers should have to pay for the tests at this point, as there is already a government-subsidized solution to this problem.
It is more likely that people are disillusioned now since Biden said "You can take off the masks" back in May but now things are worse than ever.

Seemingly worse than ever.

Anyone who is disillusioned by this info is paying no attention at all to why things are worse.

When does Biden get to take ownership of the crisis? Serious question. We are nearly a year in to his term.

It's not that he doesn't "get to" own what he has done since he took office. It's that ludicrous blanket statements like yours are... well, ludicrous.

"Biden said we can take our masks off, and now everything is horrible" is just silly. It implies a whole lot, without saying much of anything.

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1247 on: December 30, 2021, 01:19:40 PM »

The better question would be "why January" when getting tests out should have been his top priority when he got into office.

Although it is nice to see him admit the federal government is restricted.

I completely agree. Why has it taken two years and two administrations to get rapid at-home tests to everyone? Don’t get me wrong, as the parents of an unvaccinated child and a grandfather in hospice I’m thrilled that we should soon not be test-limited going forward… by why has this taken so damn long?

My only guess is that Biden was lulled into the “summer reprieve” (and no Delta/Omicron) into thinking the pandemic was subsiding. But this should have come out in early November.  STill, it’s a better public stance than when Trump was calling for less testing and blaming rising case counts on increased detection.

The vaccines and tests were rolled out during the Trump administration (not bc of him but in spite of him...big orange idiot) but the Biden admin was handed the keys to the Ferrari with a full tank of gas and a pit crew and a backup Ferrari and they can't get their heads out of their asses either. 

Might just be a federal government thing...

No. The problem is the Ferrari. Unreliable over-priced FIAT (Fix It Again Tony).
Now, if it was Red Bull Honda... would need just one with MaxV33 in control.
A LH44 or VB77 MB would still get to the finish line holding head high.

Having worked as a contractor in gov agencies for 17 years, gov "efficiency" is a thing... there's so much red-tape and lawyers and analysis paralysis. Moving deadlines to the right is always option 1.

The "best people" are generally not in gov positions, which is why they ask contractors or subject-matter experts (oh, i do hate that all-encompassing term). But when gov gets those external inputs, they doubt it and proceed to internally reverify. This delay causes loss of momentum. Par for the course.

I can kind of see why they go slow.  If they speed it up and mistakes are made, they are red meat for political carnivores.  There are MANY political carnivores.

On the other hand, when's the last time someone in government bureaucracy was really held accountable? It's very rare for someone to get fired, especially if they're not at the very highest levels (secretary, undersecretary, etc.) and even if they do, they can just go to the private sector and double their income as a consultant/lobbyist. I could bring up numerous examples of malfeasance and incompetence among bureaucrats. But the number who have gone to jail, or lost their pensions, or security clearances, or any meaningful repercussions is almost zero. Even when they've lied to Congress, committed perjury, wasted millions, etc.

pecunia

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1248 on: December 30, 2021, 02:28:39 PM »
There are joys to listening to right wing radio.  There is lots of free Kool Aid to drink.

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Re: Biden's policies debated ( formerly known as Biden outrage of the day )
« Reply #1249 on: December 30, 2021, 02:45:59 PM »
On the other hand, when's the last time someone in government bureaucracy was really held accountable? It's very rare for someone to get fired, especially if they're not at the very highest levels (secretary, undersecretary, etc.) and even if they do, they can just go to the private sector and double their income as a consultant/lobbyist. I could bring up numerous examples of malfeasance and incompetence among bureaucrats. But the number who have gone to jail, or lost their pensions, or security clearances, or any meaningful repercussions is almost zero. Even when they've lied to Congress, committed perjury, wasted millions, etc.
Pretty much since Reagan the dominant narrative in Republican politics has been "government bureaucracy is a bad thing, there should be as little of it as possible and it should cost as little as possible".  Keep saying that for 40 years and bad bureaucracy becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.   I'm not seeing many Republicans going to live in the sorts of places that don't have functioning government bureaucracies, though, which makes the whole damn lot of them hypocrites.