Australia is deliberately abusing refugees - CNN

[Metric Mouse]

Makes one wonder how the treatment/housing/care of illegal aliens who are caught entering the United States compares. Basically the USA does much the same thing until status can be confirmed or arrangements made to return the refugee/immigrant to their home country.

The stories I have read of ICE detention centers are pretty upsetting.

Or Guantanamo. Where people the government has admitted are innocent are still being held. The US also has restrictions on journalists visiting and documenting there as well.

To be fair, America did elect a leader that specifically promised to close Guantanamo. So voters were trying, some what.

[GuitarStv]

Makes one wonder how the treatment/housing/care of illegal aliens who are caught entering the United States compares. Basically the USA does much the same thing until status can be confirmed or arrangements made to return the refugee/immigrant to their home country.

The stories I have read of ICE detention centers are pretty upsetting.

Or Guantanamo. Where people the government has admitted are innocent are still being held. The US also has restrictions on journalists visiting and documenting there as well.

To be fair, America did elect a leader that specifically promised to close Guantanamo. So voters were trying, some what.

Also to be fair, that President wrote a presidential order to close Guantanamo Bay.  Congress then passed a bill that de-funded any action along those lines.  So, some of the leaders were trying, somewhat.

[marty998]

So Congress is happy to pay for the ongoing upkeep of Gitmo?

Our government has spent billions on the Manus Island and Nauru detention centres. So much money that could have been better spent, not least on overseas aid designed to try and bring peace to the nations that these people are fleeing from.

I do wonder when certain parts of the world become uninhabitable, either through climate or through war/famine/pestilence etc... where are all the millions of displaced people going to go? Will we simply say no?

Do we take them and risk over populated ourselves, with all the environmental degradation and competition for land and resources that brings. Humanity isn't a light touch on the land, and we haven't left any part of the world in a better shape than what we found it.

I don't like thinking about this.

[Jeremy E.]

I didn't realize so many Aussies were racist... I hope Kiwis aren't the same way. I know some Kiwis get really mad if you ask them if they're from Australia... Regardless, I'll be visiting both countries someday. The great barrier reef is one of the coolest things on this planet, and New Zealand is just badass.

[Metric Mouse]

So Congress is happy to pay for the ongoing upkeep of Gitmo?

Well, part of the problem is no one is quite sure what to do with the detainees. No congressman is willing to vote to house them in their district, and the president has been unable to find a place for suspected terrorists elsewhere in the world.

[Primm]

I didn't realize so many Aussies were racist... I hope Kiwis aren't the same way. I know some Kiwis get really mad if you ask them if they're from Australia... Regardless, I'll be visiting both countries someday. The great barrier reef is one of the coolest things on this planet, and New Zealand is just badass.

Yup, they are. In probably the same proportions, which is to say no more and no less than most other countries the world over.

[marty998]

I didn't realize so many Aussies were racist... I hope Kiwis aren't the same way. I know some Kiwis get really mad if you ask them if they're from Australia... Regardless, I'll be visiting both countries someday. The great barrier reef is one of the coolest things on this planet, and New Zealand is just badass.

Yup, they are. In probably the same proportions, which is to say no more and no less than most other countries the world over.

This is very true. But in this day and age whoever shouts the loudest gets attention. So certain elements of society are currently appearing disproportionately larger than they actually are.

[HappierAtHome]

So Congress is happy to pay for the ongoing upkeep of Gitmo?

Well, part of the problem is no one is quite sure what to do with the detainees. No congressman is willing to vote to house them in their district, and the president has been unable to find a place for suspected terrorists elsewhere in the world.

I hear that there's a concentration camp going cheap on Manus Island ;-)

[stripey]

I didn't realize so many Aussies were racist... I hope Kiwis aren't the same way. I know some Kiwis get really mad if you ask them if they're from Australia... Regardless, I'll be visiting both countries someday. The great barrier reef is one of the coolest things on this planet, and New Zealand is just badass.

Yup, they are. In probably the same proportions, which is to say no more and no less than most other countries the world over.

This is very true. But in this day and age whoever shouts the loudest gets attention. So certain elements of society are currently appearing disproportionately larger than they actually are.

+1

[Adram]

I didn't realize so many Aussies were racist... I hope Kiwis aren't the same way. I know some Kiwis get really mad if you ask them if they're from Australia... Regardless, I'll be visiting both countries someday. The great barrier reef is one of the coolest things on this planet, and New Zealand is just badass.

Yup, they are. In probably the same proportions, which is to say no more and no less than most other countries the world over.

This is very true. But in this day and age whoever shouts the loudest gets attention. So certain elements of society are currently appearing disproportionately larger than they actually are.

You mean the leftard hand wringers, they don't seem to ever shut up that's true.

[Metric Mouse]

So Congress is happy to pay for the ongoing upkeep of Gitmo?

Well, part of the problem is no one is quite sure what to do with the detainees. No congressman is willing to vote to house them in their district, and the president has been unable to find a place for suspected terrorists elsewhere in the world.

I hear that there's a concentration camp going cheap on Manus Island ;-)

Genuis!

I mean, really, I hadn't heard that. Surely it would have been in the news. :D

[marty998]

I didn't realize so many Aussies were racist... I hope Kiwis aren't the same way. I know some Kiwis get really mad if you ask them if they're from Australia... Regardless, I'll be visiting both countries someday. The great barrier reef is one of the coolest things on this planet, and New Zealand is just badass.

Yup, they are. In probably the same proportions, which is to say no more and no less than most other countries the world over.

This is very true. But in this day and age whoever shouts the loudest gets attention. So certain elements of society are currently appearing disproportionately larger than they actually are.

You mean the leftard hand wringers, they don't seem to ever shut up that's true.

I suppose cool and calm conservatives such as yourself are the only ones permitted to contribute?

[nnls]

well the WA premier has offered to take some

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/wa-prepared-to-take-manus-island-asylum-seekers-20160818-gqvovu.html

[forummm]

So Congress is happy to pay for the ongoing upkeep of Gitmo?

Well, part of the problem is no one is quite sure what to do with the detainees. No congressman is willing to vote to house them in their district

How offensive to all the people who work at the supermax prisons! Congressmen saying that they can't keep a convict properly locked up. Sure, we can keep the Unabomber, Ramzi Yousef, Terry Nichols, mob bosses, and people who committed treason in there. But some random people we picked up off of some fields in Afghanistan? Oooh, too dangerous.

[forummm]

US migrant detention centers look pretty inhumane

http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000004600570/photos-of-migrant-holding-cells-released.html

[Metric Mouse]

So Congress is happy to pay for the ongoing upkeep of Gitmo?

Well, part of the problem is no one is quite sure what to do with the detainees. No congressman is willing to vote to house them in their district

How offensive to all the people who work at the supermax prisons! Congressmen saying that they can't keep a convict properly locked up. Sure, we can keep the Unabomber, Ramzi Yousef, Terry Nichols, mob bosses, and people who committed treason in there. But some random people we picked up off of some fields in Afghanistan? Oooh, too dangerous.

Yeah, politicians. What can ya do.  Apparently the POTUS couldn't convince any other country to house them either. Hard to close down a detention center when no one wants the inmates... which is kinda why that particular detention center was set up in the first place.

[stripey]

well the WA premier has offered to take some

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/wa-prepared-to-take-manus-island-asylum-seekers-20160818-gqvovu.html

Good. Although we could really afford to take them all. Goodness knows regional WA could benefit.

[fa]

So Congress is happy to pay for the ongoing upkeep of Gitmo?

Well, part of the problem is no one is quite sure what to do with the detainees. No congressman is willing to vote to house them in their district

How offensive to all the people who work at the supermax prisons! Congressmen saying that they can't keep a convict properly locked up. Sure, we can keep the Unabomber, Ramzi Yousef, Terry Nichols, mob bosses, and people who committed treason in there. But some random people we picked up off of some fields in Afghanistan? Oooh, too dangerous.

I didn't think there was an intent to offend the people working at supermax prisons.  I understood that the problem of bringing them into the US means they enjoy all the rights afforded under the constitution.  It would be very difficult to have regular criminal trials for people caught on the battlefield during wartime in a far away land.  It is not really a MIRANDA rights type of situation.  So, many of these detainees would have to be released because they cannot be convicted in a regular criminal court.

The other difference with the Unabomber etc is the motivation.  Experience has shown that some of these islamic terrorists are very good at indoctrinating fellow inmates.  Kind of like a cancer that spreads to the general prison population.  This is not something typical criminals do or are good at.

Guantanamo is just another example of not thinking things through before doing something.  I am assuming nobody really thought they would be dealing with this issue 15 years later.  But here we are.

Finally, if the countries of origin don't want to take these detainees back, where do you release them?  In the mean time, Guantanamo continues to be an eyesore in the propaganda war.

BTW, much as I despise the Guantanamo situation, it is not really comparable to the Australian concentration camps.  Refugees, whether economic or not, are not the same as islamic fundamentalists caught during a battle in a war zone.

[arebelspy]

I didn't think there was an intent to offend the people working at supermax prisons.  I understood that the problem of bringing them into the US means they enjoy all the rights afforded under the constitution.  It would be very difficult to have regular criminal trials for people caught on the battlefield during wartime in a far away land.  It is not really a MIRANDA rights type of situation.  So, many of these detainees would have to be released because they cannot be convicted in a regular criminal court.

The other difference with the Unabomber etc is the motivation.  Experience has shown that some of these islamic terrorists are very good at indoctrinating fellow inmates.  Kind of like a cancer that spreads to the general prison population.  This is not something typical criminals do or are good at.

I don't think it's this second reason; they can easily separate them from the normal prison population.

It's the first.  Bring them on U.S. soil, and you risk them having rights.  If you want to abuse people and not give them rights (such as habeas corpus), you keep them offshore in a secret facility, and claim there's no secure way to store them in the US.  A joke, considering the people we do store, as forummm pointed out. 

[GuitarStv]

I didn't think there was an intent to offend the people working at supermax prisons.  I understood that the problem of bringing them into the US means they enjoy all the rights afforded under the constitution.  It would be very difficult to have regular criminal trials for people caught on the battlefield during wartime in a far away land.  It is not really a MIRANDA rights type of situation.  So, many of these detainees would have to be released because they cannot be convicted in a regular criminal court.

The other difference with the Unabomber etc is the motivation.  Experience has shown that some of these islamic terrorists are very good at indoctrinating fellow inmates.  Kind of like a cancer that spreads to the general prison population.  This is not something typical criminals do or are good at.

I don't think it's this second reason; they can easily separate them from the normal prison population.

It's the first.  Bring them on U.S. soil, and you risk them having rights.  If you want to abuse people and not give them rights (such as habeas corpus), you keep them offshore in a secret facility, and claim there's no secure way to store them in the US.  A joke, considering the people we do store, as forummm pointed out.

Fa may not be aware that a large percentage of the people abducted and tortured by the U.S. weren't from the battlefield and had nothing to do with terrorism.

[mrpercentage]

Australia should just call them Olympians and everything would be cool man.

[Metric Mouse]

Australia should just call them Olympians and everything would be cool man.

I had no idea the conditions were that bad.

[fa]

I didn't think there was an intent to offend the people working at supermax prisons.  I understood that the problem of bringing them into the US means they enjoy all the rights afforded under the constitution.  It would be very difficult to have regular criminal trials for people caught on the battlefield during wartime in a far away land.  It is not really a MIRANDA rights type of situation.  So, many of these detainees would have to be released because they cannot be convicted in a regular criminal court.

The other difference with the Unabomber etc is the motivation.  Experience has shown that some of these islamic terrorists are very good at indoctrinating fellow inmates.  Kind of like a cancer that spreads to the general prison population.  This is not something typical criminals do or are good at.

I don't think it's this second reason; they can easily separate them from the normal prison population.

It's the first.  Bring them on U.S. soil, and you risk them having rights.  If you want to abuse people and not give them rights (such as habeas corpus), you keep them offshore in a secret facility, and claim there's no secure way to store them in the US.  A joke, considering the people we do store, as forummm pointed out.

Fa may not be aware that a large percentage of the people abducted and tortured by the U.S. weren't from the battlefield and had nothing to do with terrorism.

I didn't know that, so I researched this a bit.  The government has not been very open about this, so the information is sort of sketchy.  There does appear to be a consensus that most were not actually captured on a battlefield.  There are suggestions that quite a few are low level operatives, which is quite different than having nothing to do with terrorism.  In any event, Gitmo should be closed ASAP.  Since that has been a stated goal of Obama for nearly 8 years, it must be easier said than done.