Author Topic: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?  (Read 2654 times)

sol

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Re: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2018, 08:24:00 PM »
As a regular voter, even in midterm elections, I'm just going to assume that you aren't referring to me when you tell me how much I suck ass.  Do we all suck ass in equal proportion?

OTOH, I'm not exactly feeling motivated by your friendly insults to rush out and convince my neighbors to vote, either.  The fewer of them vote, the more important my vote becomes.  If could just find some way to convince all of the people I disagree with to recycle those ballots instead of mailing them in...

As the Russians so successfully demonstrated in 2016, there is more than one way to win an election.  Yes, getting more folks to vote the way you like is good, but what's even better is getting lots of people to not vote the way you don't like.  I think much of the American political system today is targeted at the second half of that equation, because it's far more cost effective to convince people to do nothing than it is to convince them to do something.  You only need a plurality of ballots cast, after all, so convincing one bad voter to stay home is technically more beneficial than convincing one good voter to turn out.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2018, 09:20:10 PM »
I disagree. It's great that you take your civic duty seriously, but that doesn't excuse the tens of millions who do not. Even in purple states where voting matters enormously (FL, NC, OH, etc.), it hovers around 65%. There aren't 35% of voters who lead such fantastically exciting or dreadfully difficult lives that they couldn't possibly find the time to vote, so where are they?

Low turnout elections face an inherent legitimacy problem, which, ironically, leads to an even more disengaged voting base. Then it becomes a race to who can anger their voters the most to get them to show up, driving away centrists. It encourages moves to get to 50.01% instead of focusing on an inclusive long term vision. You get the buzzer beater thrill of barely edging your opponent, but that's it.

The US has an incredibly strong patriotic sentiment (sometimes wholly misguided, but that's a discussion for another day). Why isn't this translating to 90% civic engagement?

sol

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Re: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2018, 11:35:50 PM »
It encourages moves to get to 50.01% instead of focusing on an inclusive long term vision. You get the buzzer beater thrill of barely edging your opponent, but that's it.

Technically, it drove Trump to getting 46.1% and not edging his opponent, but he still gets to play President anyway.

As for legitimacy problems, let's not pretend that's due to low turnout.  46.1%, remember?  Before that, approximately half of the country was convinced the winner was a secret Muslim from Kenya and not even a US citizen.  And when the Republican candidate (McCain) tried to push back on birthirism, he got absolutely obliterated in the election.  Republicans learned their lesson well; NEVER stray from the most vile position imaginable if you want to drive turnout in your favor!

I suspect that American patriotism doesn't translate into civic engagement because people want to belong to an awesome country, not make it an awesome country.  Why bother to actually do anything worthwhile, when you can just wave the flag and shout America, Fuck YeaWhy vote, when you can just wear a MAGA hat?


GuitarStv

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Re: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2018, 07:17:14 AM »
Ontario Municipal elections are on now, how many of us Ontarians are voting?

I voted a couple weekends ago.  Early voting is awesome, no line, no fuss and you get home in no time at all.

It's all on-line/phone anyway, so I am going to vote tonight when I come back in from gardening.

This, I was unaware of.  How do you go about voting online?

Paul der Krake

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Re: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2018, 02:35:11 PM »
As for legitimacy problems, let's not pretend that's due to low turnout.  46.1%, remember?  Before that, approximately half of the country was convinced the winner was a secret Muslim from Kenya and not even a US citizen.  And when the Republican candidate (McCain) tried to push back on birthirism, he got absolutely obliterated in the election.  Republicans learned their lesson well; NEVER stray from the most vile position imaginable if you want to drive turnout in your favor!
You've obviously been scarred by the last election cycle, but you need to step back take the long view here. Trump and his ilk will go away eventually. Low turnout elections absolutely have a legitimacy problem, and it's not just a US thing.

I totally agree that a decent chunk of the public is vile and dumb as rocks (how's that for friendly insult), but the solution isn't to play turnout games.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2018, 03:01:11 PM »
This, I was unaware of.  How do you go about voting online?

I received a letter a while ago from my municipality.  It contained a PIN, a phone number and an email address, and the township address and hours we could go to vote there if we didn't want to do it online or by phone.  It also included all the candidate information.

I simply went online and followed the instructions and voted.  It even gave me the choice to refuse to vote.  Super easy, no chance of a spoiled ballot.

GuitarStv

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Re: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2018, 06:40:30 PM »
This, I was unaware of.  How do you go about voting online?

I received a letter a while ago from my municipality.  It contained a PIN, a phone number and an email address, and the township address and hours we could go to vote there if we didn't want to do it online or by phone.  It also included all the candidate information.

I simply went online and followed the instructions and voted.  It even gave me the choice to refuse to vote.  Super easy, no chance of a spoiled ballot.

That makes a ton of sense.  As far as I'm aware it's not a thing in Toronto yet, unfortunately.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2018, 06:47:48 PM »
This, I was unaware of.  How do you go about voting online?

I received a letter a while ago from my municipality.  It contained a PIN, a phone number and an email address, and the township address and hours we could go to vote there if we didn't want to do it online or by phone.  It also included all the candidate information.

I simply went online and followed the instructions and voted.  It even gave me the choice to refuse to vote.  Super easy, no chance of a spoiled ballot.

That makes a ton of sense.  As far as I'm aware it's not a thing in Toronto yet, unfortunately.

We aren't a big modern township, but it certainly was well arranged.  There were security measures.

Update: unofficial results: We have a new mayor (I voted for him, for environmental reasons) because our old mayor retired.  For my ward, one incumbent and one new person (I voted for her). 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 05:41:57 AM by RetiredAt63 »

slackmax

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Re: Are you as good of a voter as you are a saver?
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2018, 06:11:37 AM »
I plan to vote, but I am not in total agreement with either party's position on the issues. So I will have to just hope that the party I vote for will not be able to implement the positions I disagree with.