Author Topic: Are social conservatives always wrong?  (Read 18710 times)

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #450 on: July 12, 2019, 11:22:24 AM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

EvenSteven

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #451 on: July 12, 2019, 11:25:32 AM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I don't think Betsy Ross should have thrown all those beer bottles at Kaepernick, and certainly shouldn't have said those things about his mother.

GuitarStv

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #452 on: July 12, 2019, 11:48:10 AM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I had to google what you were talking about on this, but it sounds like Kaepernik is one of Nike's spokesmen and didn't want to be associated with what he sees as a symbol used by racist groups on shoes that he endorses.  Nike listened to him, and pulled the shoe.  Their stock climbed after doing so.

So . . . not really much to think about.  A private company made a calculated decision that they felt would increase their popularity and sales.  Is there an angle I'm missing?

partgypsy

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #453 on: July 12, 2019, 11:57:54 AM »
As far as I know, no liberals or progressives are agitating to remove title IX and have males and females play on the same sports team. They may advocate for, if a female kicker wants to try out for the football team that she be allowed to. What liberals state is that women and men are equal and have equal rights. Not they are identical regarding physiology, etc. Title IX gives males and females the same opportunity to participate in sports. Not a guarantee. In the same way some females (or males) who are not naturally athletic can try out and not get on the team.

Similar straw man argument, is that Elizabeth Warren stated she was a native American. What she claimed, was that she had native American ancestry. And yes, she has repeated her family lore. But she certainly doesn't identify as a native american or have campaigned on representing native americans or any of that. Who has mentioned Warren's Native American ancestry, say 1000X times more than Warren has? Trump and other republicans. The only reason this has gotten so blown up (versus a white person bragging to be part Irish in St Patricks day with little evidence) is that there is a an ugly well of racism in this country. It's not because she benefited (there is no evidence of that).  She shouldn't have put it on that form (from what I heard her department was trying to up their diversity numbers and she complied) she was ignorant of implications of claiming native american ancestry, but other than that it is a huge nothingburger that conservatives would rather have us focus on, than say the fairness of our elections and foreign influence, quid pro quo that Trump is doing with foreign entities as part of his priviledge of being president, various sex scandals, etc. Nah, don't look there. 
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 12:01:48 PM by partgypsy »

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #454 on: July 12, 2019, 12:07:13 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I had to google what you were talking about on this, but it sounds like Kaepernik is one of Nike's spokesmen and didn't want to be associated with what he sees as a symbol used by racist groups on shoes that he endorses.  Nike listened to him, and pulled the shoe.  Their stock climbed after doing so.

So . . . not really much to think about.  A private company made a calculated decision that they felt would increase their popularity and sales.  Is there an angle I'm missing?
I think you're a freaking goon that's too far gone if you think the Betsy Ross flag is a hate symbol.

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #455 on: July 12, 2019, 12:14:06 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I had to google what you were talking about on this, but it sounds like Kaepernik is one of Nike's spokesmen and didn't want to be associated with what he sees as a symbol used by racist groups on shoes that he endorses.  Nike listened to him, and pulled the shoe.  Their stock climbed after doing so.

So . . . not really much to think about.  A private company made a calculated decision that they felt would increase their popularity and sales.  Is there an angle I'm missing?

I think you're a freaking goon that's too far gone if you think the Betsy Ross flag is a hate symbol.

Huh?  Who here said anything about the Betsy Ross flab being a hate symbol?  @GuitarStv (not that he needs me to jump in on his behalf) definitely didn't say anything of the sort. 

Kris

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #456 on: July 12, 2019, 12:20:17 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I had to google what you were talking about on this, but it sounds like Kaepernik is one of Nike's spokesmen and didn't want to be associated with what he sees as a symbol used by racist groups on shoes that he endorses.  Nike listened to him, and pulled the shoe.  Their stock climbed after doing so.

So . . . not really much to think about.  A private company made a calculated decision that they felt would increase their popularity and sales.  Is there an angle I'm missing?

I think you're a freaking goon that's too far gone if you think the Betsy Ross flag is a hate symbol.

Huh?  Who here said anything about the Betsy Ross flab being a hate symbol?  @GuitarStv (not that he needs me to jump in on his behalf) definitely didn't say anything of the sort.

Seriously ugh, straw man arguments have got to be the weakest logical fallacy of them all.

Besides ad hominem. Which RSM managed to slip in there, too.

GuitarStv

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #457 on: July 12, 2019, 12:21:19 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I had to google what you were talking about on this, but it sounds like Kaepernik is one of Nike's spokesmen and didn't want to be associated with what he sees as a symbol used by racist groups on shoes that he endorses.  Nike listened to him, and pulled the shoe.  Their stock climbed after doing so.

So . . . not really much to think about.  A private company made a calculated decision that they felt would increase their popularity and sales.  Is there an angle I'm missing?

I think you're a freaking goon that's too far gone if you think the Betsy Ross flag is a hate symbol.

?

partgypsy

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #458 on: July 12, 2019, 12:23:34 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I had to google what you were talking about on this, but it sounds like Kaepernik is one of Nike's spokesmen and didn't want to be associated with what he sees as a symbol used by racist groups on shoes that he endorses.  Nike listened to him, and pulled the shoe.  Their stock climbed after doing so.

So . . . not really much to think about.  A private company made a calculated decision that they felt would increase their popularity and sales.  Is there an angle I'm missing?
I think you're a freaking goon that's too far gone if you think the Betsy Ross flag is a hate symbol.

gosh dang is this another thing that white supremacists have ruined? If so that sucks. A cool and historically important flag design.

arebelspy

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #459 on: July 12, 2019, 12:41:29 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.
I'm curious why you purposefully brought this up.
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Dabnasty

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #460 on: July 12, 2019, 12:53:47 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I had to google what you were talking about on this, but it sounds like Kaepernik is one of Nike's spokesmen and didn't want to be associated with what he sees as a symbol used by racist groups on shoes that he endorses.  Nike listened to him, and pulled the shoe.  Their stock climbed after doing so.

So . . . not really much to think about.  A private company made a calculated decision that they felt would increase their popularity and sales.  Is there an angle I'm missing?

Same, hadn't heard about it. A quick read through a few articles tells me that Kaepernick said "something" to Nike, and we don't know exactly what. I would assume he pointed out that the symbol has been used by hate groups and Nike saw the potential for controversy so they decided against using the flag. All pretty straightforward, well established brands generally try to avoid controversy.

Then several Republicans took to twitter to get people riled up over what should have been a non-issue

“Words cannot express my disappointment at this terrible decision,”
-Doug Ducey, Governor of Arizona

“It’s a good thing Nike only wants to sell sneakers to people who hate the American flag,”
-Ted Cruz

“Just so you know how this works now: Nothing can happen in America anymore if Colin Kaepernick doesn’t like it.”
-Herman Cain

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/business/betsy-ross-shoe-kaepernick-nike.html

So I guess to answer RSM's question, I think nothing* of Nike's decision to not use the flag on their shoes, but I'm pretty disappointed (although not surprised) that our politicians who were elected to work for our country are taking any possible opportunity to divide it.

*Actually I do have one small opinion on the matter, I'm not a fan of using any form of the US flag on clothing or to sell products, but it happens all the time so I'm not going to get worked up about it.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 12:55:25 PM by Dabnasty »

Kris

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #461 on: July 12, 2019, 01:02:50 PM »
^^^ Pretty much in agreement with this. I’ve wondered why conservatives are so gung-ho to wear flag clothes. I find it quite disrespectful of the American flag. And it goes against flag code.

FIREstache

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #462 on: July 12, 2019, 01:03:54 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I had to google what you were talking about on this, but it sounds like Kaepernik is one of Nike's spokesmen and didn't want to be associated with what he sees as a symbol used by racist groups on shoes that he endorses.  Nike listened to him, and pulled the shoe.  Their stock climbed after doing so.

So . . . not really much to think about.  A private company made a calculated decision that they felt would increase their popularity and sales.  Is there an angle I'm missing?
I think you're a freaking goon that's too far gone if you think the Betsy Ross flag is a hate symbol.

gosh dang is this another thing that white supremacists have ruined? If so that sucks. A cool and historically important flag design.

It hasn't been ruined.  Kaepernik is no authority on the matter or any matter as to what should be acceptable.  I will no longer buy Nike shoes.

partgypsy

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #463 on: July 12, 2019, 01:10:51 PM »
It's a free country. I'm personally not into wearing logos of any sort, including the American flag so it doesn't affect me one way or another. The only American flag I sometimes wear is a flag pin on my lanyard. A flag logo on shoes that are close to the ground and sure to get dirty doesn't sit right with me personally. But again, it's a free country.




First white clothing. Then frogs, cute lil frogs. Tiki torches. Now the Betsy Ross flag. What's next?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 01:13:53 PM by partgypsy »

FIREstache

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #464 on: July 12, 2019, 01:26:09 PM »
It's a free country. I'm personally not into wearing logos of any sort, including the American flag so it doesn't affect me one way or another. The only American flag I sometimes wear is a flag pin on my lanyard. A flag logo on shoes that are close to the ground and sure to get dirty doesn't sit right with me personally. But again, it's a free country.

First white clothing. Then frogs, cute lil frogs. Tiki torches. Now the Betsy Ross flag. What's next?

It's Kaepernik himself that I have a problem with.  I almost stopped watching NFL football because of what he started with disrespecting the American flag and trying to turn it into something about race.

I don't have flags on my clothes or shoes, either.  That's not really the concern for me.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #465 on: July 12, 2019, 01:30:28 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.
I'm curious why you purposefully brought this up.

The question posited by this thread is whether social conservatives are "always" wrong. I've said from the beginning that both social conservatives and social liberal's are sometimes wrong.  Here, the left's policing of speech -- on the grounds of being "triggered" or "offended" -- is one of several examples in which liberals are wrong.


Dabnasty

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #466 on: July 12, 2019, 01:33:23 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.
I'm curious why you purposefully brought this up.

The question posited by this thread is whether social conservatives are "always" wrong. I've said from the beginning that both social conservatives and social liberal's are sometimes wrong.  Here, the left's policing of speech -- on the grounds of being "triggered" or "offended" -- is one of several examples in which liberals are wrong.

Who is policing speech? A private business made a decision to avoid potential controversy.

Politicians making comments on twitter framing that decision as anti-American however...

GuitarStv

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #467 on: July 12, 2019, 01:35:52 PM »
I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.
I'm curious why you purposefully brought this up.

The question posited by this thread is whether social conservatives are "always" wrong. I've said from the beginning that both social conservatives and social liberal's are sometimes wrong.  Here, the left's policing of speech -- on the grounds of being "triggered" or "offended" -- is one of several examples in which liberals are wrong.

In what way has speech been policed?  Nike is a private company and made a business decision.  You're free to make and wear any kind of shoe your heart desires.

MasterStache

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #468 on: July 12, 2019, 01:40:01 PM »
It's a free country. I'm personally not into wearing logos of any sort, including the American flag so it doesn't affect me one way or another. The only American flag I sometimes wear is a flag pin on my lanyard. A flag logo on shoes that are close to the ground and sure to get dirty doesn't sit right with me personally. But again, it's a free country.

First white clothing. Then frogs, cute lil frogs. Tiki torches. Now the Betsy Ross flag. What's next?

It's Kaepernik himself that I have a problem with.  I almost stopped watching NFL football because of what he started with disrespecting the American flag and trying to turn it into something about race.

I don't have flags on my clothes or shoes, either.  That's not really the concern for me.

If it were about disrespecting the American flag then you would have stopped watching football along time ago. Flying the flag horizontally over the field, as they often do during pre-game, is against flag code. And those fans draped in the flag and/or donning articles of clothing with the flag on them, also against flag code and disrespectful. Make no mistake you hate Kaep and feel his form of peaceful protest is not to your liking.

Good thing the right to peaceful protest applies to all and not just white people.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 01:42:42 PM by MasterStache »

partgypsy

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #469 on: July 12, 2019, 01:43:11 PM »
It's a free country. I'm personally not into wearing logos of any sort, including the American flag so it doesn't affect me one way or another. The only American flag I sometimes wear is a flag pin on my lanyard. A flag logo on shoes that are close to the ground and sure to get dirty doesn't sit right with me personally. But again, it's a free country.

First white clothing. Then frogs, cute lil frogs. Tiki torches. Now the Betsy Ross flag. What's next?

It's Kaepernik himself that I have a problem with.  I almost stopped watching NFL football because of what he started with disrespecting the American flag and trying to turn it into something about race.

I don't have flags on my clothes or shoes, either.  That's not really the concern for me.

I'm sorry. I work for the VA, my father and grandfather are veterans, and he did not disrespect the American Flag. He spoke with veterans to find out the respectful way to protest. Colin Kapernick is a decent person, honestly a role model and yes you can still be a patriot AND point out the faults of this country.

Dabnasty

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #470 on: July 12, 2019, 01:50:55 PM »
It's a free country. I'm personally not into wearing logos of any sort, including the American flag so it doesn't affect me one way or another. The only American flag I sometimes wear is a flag pin on my lanyard. A flag logo on shoes that are close to the ground and sure to get dirty doesn't sit right with me personally. But again, it's a free country.

First white clothing. Then frogs, cute lil frogs. Tiki torches. Now the Betsy Ross flag. What's next?

It's Kaepernik himself that I have a problem with.  I almost stopped watching NFL football because of what he started with disrespecting the American flag and trying to turn it into something about race.

I don't have flags on my clothes or shoes, either.  That's not really the concern for me.

I'm sorry. I work for the VA, my father and grandfather are veterans, and he did not disrespect the American Flag. He spoke with veterans to find out the respectful way to protest. Colin Kapernick is a decent person, honestly a role model and yes you can still be a patriot AND point out the faults of this country.

@FIREstache, now that you know Kaepernick went out of his way to ensure that he was not disrespecting our military or the flag, and made it clear that doing so was not his intent, do you feel any differently about the situation?

Psychstache

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #471 on: July 12, 2019, 01:57:34 PM »
Still waiting to hear what the American term for people of mixed First Nations/European stock is.  i.e. Equivalent of Canadian Métis.  Or do you not have one?  The fur trade extended well into what is now American territory, so there must have been mixed marriages there as well.  Do people just not acknowledge it?

White

FIREstache

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #472 on: July 12, 2019, 02:01:10 PM »
It's a free country. I'm personally not into wearing logos of any sort, including the American flag so it doesn't affect me one way or another. The only American flag I sometimes wear is a flag pin on my lanyard. A flag logo on shoes that are close to the ground and sure to get dirty doesn't sit right with me personally. But again, it's a free country.

First white clothing. Then frogs, cute lil frogs. Tiki torches. Now the Betsy Ross flag. What's next?

It's Kaepernik himself that I have a problem with.  I almost stopped watching NFL football because of what he started with disrespecting the American flag and trying to turn it into something about race.

I don't have flags on my clothes or shoes, either.  That's not really the concern for me.

I'm sorry. I work for the VA, my father and grandfather are veterans, and he did not disrespect the American Flag. He spoke with veterans to find out the respectful way to protest. Colin Kapernick is a decent person, honestly a role model and yes you can still be a patriot AND point out the faults of this country.

@FIREstache, now that you know Kaepernick went out of his way to ensure that he was not disrespecting our military or the flag, and made it clear that doing so was not his intent, do you feel any differently about the situation?

I witnessed what he did multiple time as well as seeing other players do the same thing.  I also heard what Kaepernick had to say about it.  It was certainly disrespectful.  This is old news to me.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/disrespecting-the-flag-is-a-disgraceful-way-to-protest-trump/2017/09/25/506a1d4c-a228-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14_story.html

Dabnasty

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #473 on: July 12, 2019, 02:10:15 PM »
It's a free country. I'm personally not into wearing logos of any sort, including the American flag so it doesn't affect me one way or another. The only American flag I sometimes wear is a flag pin on my lanyard. A flag logo on shoes that are close to the ground and sure to get dirty doesn't sit right with me personally. But again, it's a free country.

First white clothing. Then frogs, cute lil frogs. Tiki torches. Now the Betsy Ross flag. What's next?

It's Kaepernik himself that I have a problem with.  I almost stopped watching NFL football because of what he started with disrespecting the American flag and trying to turn it into something about race.

I don't have flags on my clothes or shoes, either.  That's not really the concern for me.

I'm sorry. I work for the VA, my father and grandfather are veterans, and he did not disrespect the American Flag. He spoke with veterans to find out the respectful way to protest. Colin Kapernick is a decent person, honestly a role model and yes you can still be a patriot AND point out the faults of this country.

@FIREstache, now that you know Kaepernick went out of his way to ensure that he was not disrespecting our military or the flag, and made it clear that doing so was not his intent, do you feel any differently about the situation?

I witnessed what he did multiple time as well as seeing other players do the same thing.  I also heard what Kaepernick had to say about it.  It was certainly disrespectful.  This is old news to me.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/disrespecting-the-flag-is-a-disgraceful-way-to-protest-trump/2017/09/25/506a1d4c-a228-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14_story.html

Paywall, can't read. Do you believe kneeling before the flag is disrespectful because the talking heads told you so or do you have a specific code that tells you what is and isn't disrespectful?

Can you tell us what Kaepernick had to say about it that suggests disrespect was his intention?

Samuel

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #474 on: July 12, 2019, 02:27:10 PM »
This Elizabeth Warren denialism is amazing to watch.  Kyle Schuant said it well:

I laugh at conservatism and progressivism, because both of them ignore reality when reality is inconvenient. They'd both rather be right than successful.


Seriously, you are digging really, really, really deep into your liberal boots to stick up for her Native American shtick.

I think you're making some incorrect assumptions here. I can only speak for myself, but I'm one of the posters who's been "sticking up" for her and I don't particularly like her as a politician. In fact, the first time I started digging into this issue, it was to criticize her. What I found suggested that the claims I was reading were blown way out of proportion.

Now my general opinion of the situation is that I still think slightly less of her for it, but it's basically a non-issue. The reason I speak up when I see claims like those made in this thread is because they are factually incorrect or a misrepresentation of reality. That matters to me.

Yep, me too. I never actually defended Warren's actions or her (mis)handling of the issue, it's just that snarky repetition of cheap partisan talking points built on lies really gets under my skin. Facts matter, now more than ever.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #475 on: July 12, 2019, 02:33:39 PM »
Ah yes. A quarterback who earned $44M in the NFL pressured one of his endorsement companies to discontinue a product that offended him. This conduct is somehow not speech or a corporate version of a heckler's veto. Got it.

***

I'm bowing out of the Off Topic sub-forum for a while, probably permanently. 

Not sure what I expected out of this thread, but it's clear to me that this thread has run its logical course: social conservatives are always wrong -- obviously -- because they are dumb and just not well informed enough. If only they had some wiser people who could dissect their posts into fifteen parts, explaining incrementally, and with glittering vocabulary, why their opinions are just so dumb. That would really help the small-brain conservative understand how foolish he is.

You see, social liberals are free, independent thinkers. They don't toe the party line on everything. It's just logically obvious that the only correct opinion is that Kaepernick was not disrespecting the flag; that the Betsy Ross flag is, in fact, a white nationalist hate symbol; that Elizabeth Warren didn't use her Native American shtick to advance her career (go look at the Harvard law faculty and find me another professor who went to RUTGERS for law school); that trans women should be able to compete with women; on and on and on.

These are all independent thoughts, I swear it. It's not just toeing the party line and sticking up for their own. It's just the obviously correct opinion.

***

I'll sign off with what I've said in many other posts. Social liberals are going left, left, left, and leaving the middle of the country (me) behind. I'm from Youngstown. I'm one of the fortunate ones here in that I run a profitable law practice and my wife is a licensed professional.

Yet my wife and I pay $900/month for shitty healthcare ($8k deductible per person).  Can you understand why we -- and especially people who have it worse than we do -- won't support a party that will provide subsidized insurance to undocumented immigrants? Both sides of my family and my wife's family fought in the Civil War and WWII.  Can you understand why it turns us off when the democrat party constantly demeans America, its founding, its history, and its achievements? I could go on.

Never, ever, ever in a million years did I think Youngstown would start leaning toward the GOP. Mahoning County has been +25-30% democrat for fifty years. If my memory is right, Hillary won Mahoning County by three percent (3%!!!!) in 2016.  I can't even describe how absolutely staggering that is.

For every Youngstown there is a Lima; Findlay; Sandusky; Erie; Harrisburg; Flint; Gary; etc. These towns are made of people, and these people feel like they have been abandoned by the social left, which seems to be concentrating evermore in New York, San Francisco, DC, and academia.

I can't tell you how many people I know who were Democrats for life who voted for Trump. My older brother's voting history is Kerry, Obama, Obama...Trump. My old boss's voting record was Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama...Trump.

These are not anecdotal stories. The common theme is that the left is some combination of self-righteous (as demonstrated in this thread), America loathing (thinking the Founders were on the same level as Hitler), and anti-anything that disagrees with the modern far left.

Trump is probably going to get re-elected on the backs of his support in cities like mine. He's not going to get my vote (he didn't in 2016, either). But there are a hell of a lot of people who are tired of, well, the exact discourse in this thread.

partgypsy

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #476 on: July 12, 2019, 02:34:11 PM »
https://theundefeated.com/features/an-open-letter-from-american-military-veterans-in-support-of-colin-kaepernick/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/

https://www.businessinsider.com/veterans-colin-kaepernick-2016-9/

"Smith said that people burning the quarterback’s jersey “with the troops and veterans being the reason seemed ridiculous. Being used wasn’t a new feeling. Smith said politicians and corporations often use the military and its servicemen and women for promotion. That leaves some veterans, like Smith, feeling like props for people who haven’t made the sacrifice, but want to cloak themselves in their credibility."

"I can tell you, speaking for three generations of my family, it is PRECISELY for men like Kaepernick, and his right to peacefully protest injustice, that we were willing to serve,"  said Michael Sands, a Green Beret who is the son of a World War II veteran and father of an Army officer who served in Afghanistan. "Want to respect the American flag? Then respect the ideals for which it stands. Bullying language and calling peaceful protesters 'sons of bitches' who should be fired aren't among them."
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 02:44:26 PM by partgypsy »

Samuel

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #477 on: July 12, 2019, 02:37:36 PM »
I’ve wondered why conservatives are so gung-ho to wear flag clothes. I find it quite disrespectful of the American flag.

Especially when they're made in sweatshops and end up in landfills.

Dabnasty

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #478 on: July 12, 2019, 02:42:16 PM »
...snip

Nevermind that I and others who you're now calling toe-the-line liberals disagreed with the title of this thread earlier on. Do we need to add a disclaimer every time we post?

Dabnasty

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #479 on: July 12, 2019, 02:44:41 PM »
that the Betsy Ross flag is, in fact, a white nationalist hate symbol;

The person you accused of saying this and several others asked where you got this idea. No one other than you ever said it.

Do you not read responses to your posts?

They said it was used by racist groups, that is all.

GuitarStv

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #480 on: July 12, 2019, 02:53:29 PM »
that the Betsy Ross flag is, in fact, a white nationalist hate symbol;

The person you accused of saying this and several others asked where you got this idea. No one other than you ever said it.

Do you not read responses to your posts?

They said it was used by racist groups, that is all.

Actually, I didn't say it was used by racist groups.  I said that that appears to be what Kaepernick believed.


I'm curious what the libs in this thread think about the recent Kaepernik/Betsy Ross flag issue.

I had to google what you were talking about on this, but it sounds like Kaepernik is one of Nike's spokesmen and didn't want to be associated with what he sees as a symbol used by racist groups on shoes that he endorses.  Nike listened to him, and pulled the shoe.  Their stock climbed after doing so.

So . . . not really much to think about.  A private company made a calculated decision that they felt would increase their popularity and sales.  Is there an angle I'm missing?

I think you're a freaking goon that's too far gone if you think the Betsy Ross flag is a hate symbol.

?


partgypsy

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #481 on: July 12, 2019, 02:58:52 PM »
The thing that is sad, Readysetmillionaire, is that I think we both love our country, the United States. It is a place where freedom was born. But I also understand, that not everything that happened in the US was "Great". Just like Lincoln with a heavy heart decided that a united we stand, divided we fall, we sometimes need to take a hard look at ourselves and our country's actions, to see if we are on the right track and holding up the ideals we aspire to. That is what I consider patriotic. Part of wisdom is learning from our mistakes, precisely in order to form a "more perfect union". That's what good leaders do. And honestly whenever we have these conversations it is the conservatives that derail a somewhat civil conversations by waving straw men by bringing up betsy Ross and Kapernick, Elizabeth Warren and the Pocahontas obsession, that liberals are giving ACA insurance to illegal immigrants, bringing up transsexuals and that liberals want men and women to be on the same teams, and THEN saying it's Liberals shoving this down your throat. It is getting to be pathological.

I know a lot of liberals, people who are a lot more liberal than me. These are not their burning issues, understatement. Maybe these are the burning issues to conservatives? 
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 03:02:51 PM by partgypsy »

Dabnasty

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #482 on: July 12, 2019, 03:00:20 PM »
Actually, I didn't say it was used by racist groups.  I said that that appears to be what Kaepernick believed.

Quiet, you liberal elitist goon :)

GuitarStv

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #483 on: July 12, 2019, 03:21:55 PM »
Actually, I didn't say it was used by racist groups.  I said that that appears to be what Kaepernick believed.

Quiet, you liberal elitist goon :)

I've never been called a goon before and had to look it up.

Goon: a silly, foolish, or eccentric person.

Hard to get too upset when the shoe fits.  :P

CindyBS

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #484 on: July 12, 2019, 03:23:57 PM »

I know a lot of liberals, people who are a lot more liberal than me. These are not their burning issues, understatement. Maybe these are the burning issues to conservatives?

Nope, they are the issues conservative media has identified can be used to stoke fear, rage, disgust etc. with their viewers and feed into their tribalism.  As long as they keep people all in a rage about a man taking a knee, and get them to "side" with the right, then the people can't be distracted by the real problems going on in this country and will excuse just about anything.
 


FIRE 20/20

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #485 on: July 12, 2019, 03:57:58 PM »
Actually, I didn't say it was used by racist groups.  I said that that appears to be what Kaepernick believed.

Quiet, you liberal elitist goon :)

I've never been called a goon before and had to look it up.

Goon: a silly, foolish, or eccentric person.

Hard to get too upset when the shoe fits.  :P

Wait, you live in Canada and don't know what a goon is? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforcer_(ice_hockey)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_(film)


MasterStache

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #486 on: July 12, 2019, 04:16:00 PM »

I know a lot of liberals, people who are a lot more liberal than me. These are not their burning issues, understatement. Maybe these are the burning issues to conservatives?

Nope, they are the issues conservative media has identified can be used to stoke fear, rage, disgust etc. with their viewers and feed into their tribalism.  As long as they keep people all in a rage about a man taking a knee, and get them to "side" with the right, then the people can't be distracted by the real problems going on in this country and will excuse just about anything.

+1. The Kaep non-issue is just red meat for Trump’s base. Black athletes have been protesting for decades and it was never an issue. Suddenly it is. Yeah ok, gotcha.

GuitarStv

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #487 on: July 12, 2019, 04:19:48 PM »
Actually, I didn't say it was used by racist groups.  I said that that appears to be what Kaepernick believed.

Quiet, you liberal elitist goon :)

I've never been called a goon before and had to look it up.

Goon: a silly, foolish, or eccentric person.

Hard to get too upset when the shoe fits.  :P

Wait, you live in Canada and don't know what a goon is? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforcer_(ice_hockey)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_(film)



Probably showing my elitist roots here, but I'm not really a hockey fan.  Also prefer Aunt Jemima to real maple syrup, so I'm definitely going to Canadian hell.


RetiredAt63

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #488 on: July 12, 2019, 04:40:47 PM »
Actually, I didn't say it was used by racist groups.  I said that that appears to be what Kaepernick believed.

Quiet, you liberal elitist goon :)

I've never been called a goon before and had to look it up.

Goon: a silly, foolish, or eccentric person.

Hard to get too upset when the shoe fits.  :P

Wait, you live in Canada and don't know what a goon is? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforcer_(ice_hockey)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_(film)



Probably showing my elitist roots here, but I'm not really a hockey fan.  Also prefer Aunt Jemima to real maple syrup, so I'm definitely going to Canadian hell.

Well, we could forgive you for the first), but not the second.

Oh, you live in Toronto, never mind.

Cool Friend

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #489 on: July 12, 2019, 05:35:04 PM »
Also prefer Aunt Jemima to real maple syrup

This is the most offensive opinion of the thread.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #490 on: July 12, 2019, 05:47:26 PM »
Also prefer Aunt Jemima to real maple syrup

This is the most offensive opinion of the thread.

Is it grounds to take away his Canadian citizenship?     ;-)

GuitarStv

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #491 on: July 12, 2019, 06:11:36 PM »
Also prefer Aunt Jemima to real maple syrup

This is the most offensive opinion of the thread.

Is it too late to post a trigger warning?

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #492 on: July 12, 2019, 07:00:25 PM »
As an Australian reading this thread, it amazes me how much you guys like to argue about race and sex.

Australia doesn't have a fantastic history when it comes to not committing genocide, not being racist, etc, but I think we have a much closer consensus regarding social policy. E.g., abortion is good, gay marriage is good, assault rifles are bad etc

I'm glad I live in a country where the political lines are drawn only over economic issues and not social issues.

scottish

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #493 on: July 12, 2019, 08:28:40 PM »
Me too.   i think we should actively discourage any politicians found practicing socially divisive politics.

calimom

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #494 on: July 12, 2019, 09:00:55 PM »
New topic, The One Million Moms (actually there are only about 70K of them registered) have been on a rampage over Toy Story 4 Apparently there is a scene in the movie where same-sex moms drop off a child at a school. OMM is incensed! A quick look at their site indicates other objects of their fury: a same-sex marriage of an animated rate teacher in PBS' beloved long-running Arthur series. Chips Ahoy cookies for some gender bending commercial. A particular area of concern are the widely popular Drag Queen Story Hours. Oh, and women having a legal medical procedure in (at the moment) 49 states. They'd like the shutdowns to continue.

Think of the children they cry! But not the children in cages at the border. Or the children from low income families who experience hunger on weekends and school vacations because of real food insecurity. Or children without homes altogether. Or how the climate is changing. Or how guns in the home kill more children then they purportedly protectd.The OMM only think of the non-existent "damage" their children will (not) experience because of a 5 second clip in a Pixar movie.





SpeedReader

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #495 on: July 12, 2019, 09:21:46 PM »
New topic, The One Million Moms (actually there are only about 70K of them registered) have been on a rampage over Toy Story 4 Apparently there is a scene in the movie where same-sex moms drop off a child at a school. OMM is incensed! A quick look at their site indicates other objects of their fury: a same-sex marriage of an animated rate teacher in PBS' beloved long-running Arthur series. Chips Ahoy cookies for some gender bending commercial. A particular area of concern are the widely popular Drag Queen Story Hours. Oh, and women having a legal medical procedure in (at the moment) 49 states. They'd like the shutdowns to continue.

Think of the children they cry! But not the children in cages at the border. Or the children from low income families who experience hunger on weekends and school vacations because of real food insecurity. Or children without homes altogether. Or how the climate is changing. Or how guns in the home kill more children then they purportedly protectd.The OMM only think of the non-existent "damage" their children will (not) experience because of a 5 second clip in a Pixar movie.

People like that just wear me out.

CindyBS

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #496 on: July 13, 2019, 12:25:13 PM »
New topic, The One Million Moms (actually there are only about 70K of them registered) have been on a rampage over Toy Story 4 Apparently there is a scene in the movie where same-sex moms drop off a child at a school. OMM is incensed! A quick look at their site indicates other objects of their fury: a same-sex marriage of an animated rate teacher in PBS' beloved long-running Arthur series. Chips Ahoy cookies for some gender bending commercial. A particular area of concern are the widely popular Drag Queen Story Hours. Oh, and women having a legal medical procedure in (at the moment) 49 states. They'd like the shutdowns to continue.

Think of the children they cry! But not the children in cages at the border. Or the children from low income families who experience hunger on weekends and school vacations because of real food insecurity. Or children without homes altogether. Or how the climate is changing. Or how guns in the home kill more children then they purportedly protectd.The OMM only think of the non-existent "damage" their children will (not) experience because of a 5 second clip in a Pixar movie.

To piggyback on your comment - some states/jurisdictions are passing laws designating pornography as a public health threat.  - think of the children! (pearls clutched)   but not considered for the same public health designation - school shootings, environmental problems, climate change, pesticides in food, lead paint, children in cages, children kept as slaves or sex trafficking.   

Kids should not be watching porn.  But the idea that a picture of a naked lady poses more of a threat to my kids than any of the other issues I mentioned is downright laughable.

GuitarStv

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #497 on: July 13, 2019, 01:37:53 PM »
Kids should not be watching porn.  But the idea that a picture of a naked lady poses more of a threat to my kids than any of the other issues I mentioned is downright laughable.

This is actually an interesting point to discuss.

First of all - I absolutely don't think that kids should be watching porn . . . but the reason that I'm against porn isn't because I think sex is somehow bad and kids shouldn't be exposed to it . . . it's the way typical porn depicts sex.  It's usually very aggressive/violent, the woman is invariably submissive, there's usually a weird/disturbing vibe going on.  But on balance I believe that a kid being exposed to several dozen killings (as a kid sees while watching a generally accepted for kids show like Star Wars - those storm troopers and tie fighters add up after a while) is likely more damaging than being exposed to a sex scene where both people act in a loving way.  Everyone has genitals, and nearly everyone is going to use their genitals during their life.  The vast majority of us will never kill another human being.  Why are we normalizing the latter, but terrified of the former for kids?

partgypsy

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #498 on: July 13, 2019, 07:18:48 PM »
Kids should not be watching porn.  But the idea that a picture of a naked lady poses more of a threat to my kids than any of the other issues I mentioned is downright laughable.

This is actually an interesting point to discuss.

First of all - I absolutely don't think that kids should be watching porn . . . but the reason that I'm against porn isn't because I think sex is somehow bad and kids shouldn't be exposed to it . . . it's the way typical porn depicts sex.  It's usually very aggressive/violent, the woman is invariably submissive, there's usually a weird/disturbing vibe going on.  But on balance I believe that a kid being exposed to several dozen killings (as a kid sees while watching a generally accepted for kids show like Star Wars - those storm troopers and tie fighters add up after a while) is likely more damaging than being exposed to a sex scene where both people act in a loving way.  Everyone has genitals, and nearly everyone is going to use their genitals during their life.  The vast majority of us will never kill another human being.  Why are we normalizing the latter, but terrified of the former for kids?
I think you are hitting on it. In Europe there are television and print ads with tasteful nudity. I have no problem with that at all. I think what is not good is sex acts combined with violence, which seems to happen a lot, even in tv shows (csi, action shows etc) as well as horror movies. I think US society in general is a lot more violence-oriented in our popular culture while loving depictions of couples and sex are rare and would probably be rated x while much more violent material is R. 

Gondolin

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Re: Are social conservatives always wrong?
« Reply #499 on: July 15, 2019, 12:48:27 PM »
Quote
Kids should not be watching porn.  But the idea that a picture of a naked lady poses more of a threat to my kids than any of the other issues I mentioned is downright laughable.

Part of this is typical American Puritanism but, the larger and non-hypocritical issue is the ease of access for younger and younger kids. Every 5 yr old with an improperly configured iPhone can view porn with one typo.

Right now some worldly and cruel 11 year old is cyberbullying a peer by calling her victim a "three hole slut" and texting over gangbang gifs.

 The combination of ignorance about sex, easy access to unrealistic porn, and the cruelty of kids is a toxic brew so I can see why the PTA got involved.