Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?

[GuitarStv]

The votes got split up as rational/irrational. The rational votes were shared by the rational candidates and Trump got all the irrational votes to himself. At least that's the explanation that lets me sleep at night.

Then you should stay up at night because Trump has a 90% approval rating within the Republican party. The base loves him. And it is precisely because of that love that the Republicans in congress have been completely unwilling to cross him in any meaningful way; they know they would not survive the next primary if they did.

That's a disheartening statistic but I don't think that's how those same people felt during the primaries. Now that he is the (R)president and they've gotten the supreme court justices they wanted along with some other policy changes it's not hard for Republicans to say they approve. "Approval" doesn't mean he's their #1 choice and any other Republican in office would likely be getting the same level of approval.

I think you're forgetting that Trump won the popular vote in the primaries by a landslide over all other candidates.  It's a mistake to assume that he is some sort of fringe politician.  He was elected by mainstream Republicans and continues to have the support of mainstream Republicans.  His policies are the same policies that the Republican party has been pushing for as long as I've been alive.

You're joking, right? Trump got a smaller share of the primary votes than any Republican presidential nominee since the modern primary system began. How is that a "landslide"?

He got roughly as many votes as his competitors combined, and completely crushed all the other candidates when looking at delegates. 

Delegates
Trump: 1,543
Cruz: 559
Rubio: 165
Kasich: 161

Popular vote:
Trump: 14,015,993
Cruz: 7,822,100
Rubio: 3,515,576
Kasich: 4,290,448




He won by a landslide (and continues to have full mainstream Republican support) because he embodies what most Republicans want.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

So he failed to win the majority of votes, unlike nearly every other presidential primary candidate in history, which is evidence that he embodies what Republican voters want? Or is it evidence that maybe a third of Republican voters, plus some independents and a few Democrats, want?

A recent poll showed that 43% of his own party want a challenger to Trump in the primary, which is unheard of for a sitting president. Of course, he's be unlikely to fall to a primary opponent, because half of those would prefer to see a moderate Republican like Kasich, and the other half want a "true" conservative like Ted Cruz. Those who dislike him are unlikely to agree on any specific challenger. Trump's approval ratings among Republicans (~90%) and Democrats (~5%) is more reflective of a highly polarized electorate than a real reflection of the preferences of the average Republican voter.

Perhaps I come at this from a different perspective than you, because I live in "Trump country" and I have my whole life, but there are many Republicans who are critical of Trump for many different reasons, but the one thing they all agree on is that Trump is better than the Democrats. That's basically the only thing that universally unites them. Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

[sherr]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

Give me a fucking break. I'm just trying to introduce a little nuance into the conversation. Sweeping statements about political parties that you don't like are more fun than accurate. Shit, I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it if it says something awful about black people.

[sherr]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

Give me a fucking break. I'm just trying to introduce a little nuance into the conversation. Sweeping statements about political parties that you don't like are more fun than accurate. Shit, I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it if it says something awful about black people.

My comment was probably more snide than it should have been, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore the differences between the parties. I cannot conceive of how someone as personally nasty and openly corrupt as Trump could have been Nominated and Elected coming from the Democratic side.

Can you? If not, why should I make excuses for them?

These are legitimate questions that I have struggled with every day for the last two years, not just some snippy attempt to win an internet argument.

[talltexan]

Why did this thread veer from whether Mustachians should like Trump into whether republicans should like Trump?

[Tass]

There is at least some evidence that Trump's solid support among "strong Republicans" is unwavering because those who dislike him have stopped calling themselves strong Republicans. By this measure, the support of his base remains high even while the actual number of people supporting him dwindles.

ETA: Not the article I read, but same idea (though out of date): https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/upshot/why-trumps-base-of-support-may-be-smaller-than-it-seems.html

[GuitarStv]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

Give me a fucking break. I'm just trying to introduce a little nuance into the conversation. Sweeping statements about political parties that you don't like are more fun than accurate. Shit, I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it if it says something awful about black people.

That's like someone voting for Hitler . . . not because of jew killing of course, but because of the awesome roads he built.  Well, I'm sorry but supporting Hitler (even if just for the autobahn) means supporting Hitler on the concentration camp thing too.  It's not possible to separate them.  Even if you throw out the occasional token 'Jews aren't that bad' quietly in the corner of your home where nobody can hear you, you're still part of the problem.

You already stated your reason (and that of many Republicans) for supporting Trump.  He's not a democrat.  That fact eclipses the constant lying, the bullying, the racism, the misogyny, being controlled by Putin, regularly attacking free speech, etc.  You don't get to say that all those things are less important to you than the guy in the white house being Republican and then pretend that any of those issues really matter to you.  They obviously don't.

Own your choice.

[Tass]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

Give me a fucking break. I'm just trying to introduce a little nuance into the conversation. Sweeping statements about political parties that you don't like are more fun than accurate. Shit, I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it if it says something awful about black people.

That's like someone voting for Hitler . . . not because of jew killing of course, but because of the awesome roads he built.  Well, I'm sorry but supporting Hitler (even if just for the autobahn) means supporting Hitler on the concentration camp thing too.  It's not possible to separate them.  Even if you throw out the occasional token 'Jews aren't that bad' quietly in the corner of your home where nobody can hear you, you're still part of the problem.

You already stated your reason (and that of many Republicans) for supporting Trump.  He's not a democrat.  That fact eclipses the constant lying, the bullying, the racism, the misogyny, being controlled by Putin, regularly attacking free speech, etc.  You don't get to say that all those things are less important to you than the guy in the white house being Republican and then pretend that any of those issues really matter to you.  They obviously don't.

Own your choice.

My friend, I believe you have made a mistake.

[sherr]

I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump

You already stated your reason (and that of many Republicans) for supporting Trump.

Own your choice.

My friend, I believe you have made a mistake.

Perhaps not, what many Republicans (my parents included) mean when they say "I voted for X" is in the primary.

Because of course they voted for the Republican Nominee in the General Election, because what other choice could one possibly have?

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

Give me a fucking break. I'm just trying to introduce a little nuance into the conversation. Sweeping statements about political parties that you don't like are more fun than accurate. Shit, I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it if it says something awful about black people.

My comment was probably more snide than it should have been, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore the differences between the parties. I cannot conceive of how someone as personally nasty and openly corrupt as Trump could have been Nominated and Elected coming from the Democratic side.

Can you? If not, why should I make excuses for them?

These are legitimate questions that I have struggled with every day for the last two years, not just some snippy attempt to win an internet argument.

Tribal identity is a powerful thing. That's all I know to say. I have three siblings. Two of us are Democrats, the other two are Republicans. My Republican siblings despise Trump, but they like some of the things he's done (tax cut, Supreme Court nominees, etc.). I doubt they'd identify themselves as people who "approve" of his job. They're the type of people who are accepting of gay people, immigrants, and religious minorities, opposed to abortion, strong "free market"-type Republicans.

I view my Dad as a very typical Republican voter. He complains about his taxes supporting "welfare queens". He's the type who thinks that separation of church and state is important to protect the church from the state, but doesn't think that the state needs to be protected from the church. However, he did not like Trump during the primaries (Rubio voter), and was vocal about his displeasure and disbelief when Trump got the nomination. But ultimately, he voted for him in the general election, and is currently a strong personal supporter...honestly though, it has everything to do with a "Hillary would be worse" attitude and nothing to do with Trump specifically. I know for a fact that he would choose a thousand other Republicans over Trump.

And finally, the oldest generation in our family, my grandparents: Full-throated Trump supporters, voted for him in the primaries, donated to his campaign, still have the bumper stickers. They are also some of the kindest people I know, but they live in constant fear that they U.S. is being overrun by brown people bringing drugs and Shariah law (even though they've never seen it themselves...but Sean Hannity and Donald Trump say it's true, so it must be true).

I'm not trying to justify anyone's actions or beliefs. I'm just pointing out that political identity is a diverse and complex thing, and we've turned it into a stupid binary option with our stupid bifurcated political parties.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

You already stated your reason (and that of many Republicans) for supporting Trump...Own your choice.

Hold the goshdarn phones. I'm a registered Democrat, and I don't support Trump. I despise him with the fury of 1000 suns being consumed in the flames of 1000 supernovas. But that doesn't mean I can't take a sober look at the people who voted for him and try to understand their reasoning from a perspective that is not my own.

[sherr]

I view my Dad as a very typical Republican voter. He complains about his taxes supporting "welfare queens". He's the type who thinks that separation of church and state is important to protect the church from the state, but doesn't think that the state needs to be protected from the church. However, he did not like Trump during the primaries (Rubio voter), and was vocal about his displeasure and disbelief when Trump got the nomination. But ultimately, he voted for him in the general election, and is currently a strong personal supporter...honestly though, it has everything to do with a "Hillary would be worse" attitude and nothing to do with Trump specifically. I know for a fact that he would choose a thousand other Republicans over Trump.

I wish more Republicans were like your dad then, a world where Rubio won the Republican Nomination would be a much better place.

[OtherJen]

Any suggestions as to how to get more involved in local politics?  It's easy to find information about national politics online, but not so much for local politics.

League of Women Voters! (Not just for women.) Non-partisan voter education and advocacy. I really enjoyed working on projects related to local city elections a couple of years ago.

Re-emphasizing my plug for League of Women Voters. I attended one of our public events tonight and had good conversations with two of my city council members and chatted with city council members from neighboring cities and the county commissioner's office. Local politicians want to meet their constituents! One of the council members from my city gave me a heads-up on a neighborhood association that has restarted their meetings and the other gave me some inside info on city hall dealings.

[FIRE 20/20]

Yes, I am serious, and that is not a lack of empathy. I suggested acting so as to not be a victim to a shitty system.

Some people find it difficult to grow a penis, change their skin color, or change their sexual orientation to not be impacted by the system. 

[talltexan]

I view my Dad as a very typical Republican voter. He complains about his taxes supporting "welfare queens". He's the type who thinks that separation of church and state is important to protect the church from the state, but doesn't think that the state needs to be protected from the church. However, he did not like Trump during the primaries (Rubio voter), and was vocal about his displeasure and disbelief when Trump got the nomination. But ultimately, he voted for him in the general election, and is currently a strong personal supporter...honestly though, it has everything to do with a "Hillary would be worse" attitude and nothing to do with Trump specifically. I know for a fact that he would choose a thousand other Republicans over Trump.

I wish more Republicans were like your dad then, a world where Rubio won the Republican Nomination would be a much better place.

Note: Trump's policy toward Cuba and Venezuela has pretty much been to do whatever makes Rubio happy.

[Just Joe]

That is pretty spot on. He was an awful human being before going into politics, but he seems to have only become less likable to me. I would like to think that the Democrats could have ran nearly anyone except Hillary and would have been more likely to win, but I still have no idea how so many voted for Trump during the primaries.

I think it was another thread where ranked choice voting for congress was mentioned recently, but If we could implement a system like that in the primaries it would take care of such nonsense. The votes got split up as rational/irrational. The rational votes were shared by the rational candidates and Trump got all the irrational votes to himself. At least that's the explanation that lets me sleep at night.

I've come to believe that our system will stay the way it is b/c political parties can game the system so well.

[Blueberries]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

Give me a fucking break. I'm just trying to introduce a little nuance into the conversation. Sweeping statements about political parties that you don't like are more fun than accurate. Shit, I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it if it says something awful about black people.

That's like someone voting for Hitler . . . not because of jew killing of course, but because of the awesome roads he built.  Well, I'm sorry but supporting Hitler (even if just for the autobahn) means supporting Hitler on the concentration camp thing too.  It's not possible to separate them.  Even if you throw out the occasional token 'Jews aren't that bad' quietly in the corner of your home where nobody can hear you, you're still part of the problem.

You already stated your reason (and that of many Republicans) for supporting Trump.  He's not a democrat.  That fact eclipses the constant lying, the bullying, the racism, the misogyny, being controlled by Putin, regularly attacking free speech, etc.  You don't get to say that all those things are less important to you than the guy in the white house being Republican and then pretend that any of those issues really matter to you.  They obviously don't.

Own your choice.

I loathe Godwin's Law.  The thread is about Trump and as people continue to associate Trump is racist/sexist = Trump supporters are racist/sexist, I have to give the opposing view.  Even as a pro-choice Democrat.

Abortions are legal at 24 weeks in many states.  With medical advancement, we are no longer looking at grim survival rates for 24 week olds; we are looking at an almost 50% chance of survival.  Does this mean that someone who supports abortion at 24 weeks is also supporting murder?  And, the politicians who support 24 week abortions are murderers and the people who support those politicians are also supporting murderers? 

Personally, I think these issues are more complex than this. 

[Just Joe]

I'd rather work on the reasons women find themselves with unwanted babies than endlessly rehash abortion law. Its a wedge issue whose debate that accomplishes nothing except divide voters.

Get the church out of the way. Get the gov't out of the way. Deliver some plain good advice about pregnancy and finances. Help with the cost of birth control - short term or long term solutions.

Women who don't want babies shouldn't have babies - no matter what the church says. Help them with this.

As important as school is, we really need to go back to some sort of basic shop classes (for everyone), home economics classes (for everyone), and teach quality personal finance classes. Sex ed needs to be in there too. How to take care of a baby (home ec) and what a baby costs (finance) and how to avoid having a baby (sex ed). Shakespeare is great but I'd happily see them cut some of those ancient topics in favor of useful 2019 information.

[GuitarStv]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

Give me a fucking break. I'm just trying to introduce a little nuance into the conversation. Sweeping statements about political parties that you don't like are more fun than accurate. Shit, I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it if it says something awful about black people.

That's like someone voting for Hitler . . . not because of jew killing of course, but because of the awesome roads he built.  Well, I'm sorry but supporting Hitler (even if just for the autobahn) means supporting Hitler on the concentration camp thing too.  It's not possible to separate them.  Even if you throw out the occasional token 'Jews aren't that bad' quietly in the corner of your home where nobody can hear you, you're still part of the problem.

You already stated your reason (and that of many Republicans) for supporting Trump.  He's not a democrat.  That fact eclipses the constant lying, the bullying, the racism, the misogyny, being controlled by Putin, regularly attacking free speech, etc.  You don't get to say that all those things are less important to you than the guy in the white house being Republican and then pretend that any of those issues really matter to you.  They obviously don't.

Own your choice.

I loathe Godwin's Law.  The thread is about Trump and as people continue to associate Trump is racist/sexist = Trump supporters are racist/sexist, I have to give the opposing view.  Even as a pro-choice Democrat.

I'm sure that some KKK members would claim that they just like crisp white linens.  At some point though, you need to take responsibility for the actions of the people you support and identify with.  To date, most of what I've seen from Republicans is "Yeah, Trump is racist as fuck . . . but I'm not racist.  I just totally support him because he's not a democrat.  And that's more important than anything else."*


*Of course, this ignores the many "I'm not racist, but we need a wall to prevent dirty Mexicans from raping our pure white children." and the numerous "Fuck anyone who's not white." groups in the Republican party.

Abortions are legal at 24 weeks in many states.  With medical advancement, we are no longer looking at grim survival rates for 24 week olds; we are looking at an almost 50% chance of survival.  Does this mean that someone who supports abortion at 24 weeks is also supporting murder?  And, the politicians who support 24 week abortions are murderers and the people who support those politicians are also supporting murderers?

Which of Trump's racist policies are you comparing 24 week abortion to?

Personally, I think these issues are more complex than this.

So, here's the thing.  I have political tendencies that I lean towards.  As far as I'm aware, that's pretty normal for most people.  When a person of the political party that I support does something vile and wrong, and then these actions get the full backing of all other members of that party . . . I stop supporting the party.  Tribal affiliation is not a valid reason to abandon morality.

Support of an evil person and turning a blind eye to what he does simply because he's on your side makes you evil.

[El Jacinto]

He's incredibly non-mustachian, and this community should not support him on a personal level, but...what exactly has Trump said or done that is racist?

His desire to build a border wall is xenophobic at worst. Otherwise, as far as I can tell, his most "racist" action has been being a Republican.

[Kris]

He's incredibly non-mustachian, and this community should not support him on a personal level, but...what exactly has Trump said or done that is racist?

His desire to build a border wall is xenophobic at worst. Otherwise, as far as I can tell, his most "racist" action has been being a Republican.

Let us start with the original racist statement of his campaign: the fact that he was the loudest voice in the "birther" movement.

[GuitarStv]

You can start here:  https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

or here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump


There is a reason that white supremacists have loudly supported Trump every step of the way.

[FrugalToque]

He's incredibly non-mustachian, and this community should not support him on a personal level, but...what exactly has Trump said or done that is racist?

Well, yes, that's part's easy to see.  No one with that much ostentatious bullshit could ever fit in here.

His desire to build a border wall is xenophobic at worst. Otherwise, as far as I can tell, his most "racist" action has been being a Republican.

The Central Park Five?
The birther movement?
"David Duke? Who?"
"Very fine people on both sides."

This is all out there in public.  It's not like he keeps this a secret.

[GuitarStv]

His desire to build a border wall is xenophobic at worst. Otherwise, as far as I can tell, his most "racist" action has been being a Republican.

The Central Park Five?
The birther movement?
"David Duke? Who?"
"Very fine people on both sides."

This is all out there in public.  It's not like he keeps this a secret.

Settling out of court when he was busted for not renting to black people
Blacks are lazy, I only want Jews handling my money
Pocahontas
Shithole countries
Mexican rapists
Mexican-American judge can't do his job because he's Mexican

The list goes on, and on, and on, and on . . .

[MasterStache]

His desire to build a border wall is xenophobic at worst. Otherwise, as far as I can tell, his most "racist" action has been being a Republican.

The Central Park Five?
The birther movement?
"David Duke? Who?"
"Very fine people on both sides."

This is all out there in public.  It's not like he keeps this a secret.

Settling out of court when he was busted for not renting to black people
Blacks are lazy, I only want Jews handling my money
Pocahontas
Shithole countries
Mexican rapists
Mexican-American judge can't do his job because he's Mexican

The list goes on, and on, and on, and on . . .

That's just all "locker room talk" (-;

[Psychstache]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

Give me a fucking break. I'm just trying to introduce a little nuance into the conversation. Sweeping statements about political parties that you don't like are more fun than accurate. Shit, I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it if it says something awful about black people.

My comment was probably more snide than it should have been, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore the differences between the parties. I cannot conceive of how someone as personally nasty and openly corrupt as Trump could have been Nominated and Elected coming from the Democratic side.

Can you? If not, why should I make excuses for them?

These are legitimate questions that I have struggled with every day for the last two years, not just some snippy attempt to win an internet argument.

Tribal identity is a powerful thing. That's all I know to say. I have three siblings. Two of us are Democrats, the other two are Republicans. My Republican siblings despise Trump, but they like some of the things he's done (tax cut, Supreme Court nominees, etc.). I doubt they'd identify themselves as people who "approve" of his job. They're the type of people who are accepting of gay people, immigrants, and religious minorities, opposed to abortion, strong "free market"-type Republicans.

I view my Dad as a very typical Republican voter. He complains about his taxes supporting "welfare queens". He's the type who thinks that separation of church and state is important to protect the church from the state, but doesn't think that the state needs to be protected from the church. However, he did not like Trump during the primaries (Rubio voter), and was vocal about his displeasure and disbelief when Trump got the nomination. But ultimately, he voted for him in the general election, and is currently a strong personal supporter...honestly though, it has everything to do with a "Hillary would be worse" attitude and nothing to do with Trump specifically. I know for a fact that he would choose a thousand other Republicans over Trump.

And finally, the oldest generation in our family, my grandparents: Full-throated Trump supporters, voted for him in the primaries, donated to his campaign, still have the bumper stickers. They are also some of the kindest people I know, but they live in constant fear that they U.S. is being overrun by brown people bringing drugs and Shariah law (even though they've never seen it themselves...but Sean Hannity and Donald Trump say it's true, so it must be true).

I'm not trying to justify anyone's actions or beliefs. I'm just pointing out that political identity is a diverse and complex thing, and we've turned it into a stupid binary option with our stupid bifurcated political parties.

It's like the saying goes: Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.

[soccerluvof4]

Bottom line: I think you understate the division within the Republican party. It's not nearly as homogenous as you imply.

Yeah, they only nominated him, elected him, and continue to support him at every turn. How dare we imply that he accurately represents them.

Give me a fucking break. I'm just trying to introduce a little nuance into the conversation. Sweeping statements about political parties that you don't like are more fun than accurate. Shit, I'd vote for a squirrel testicle and roquefort sandwich on moldy pumpernickel if it ran against Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it if it says something awful about black people.

My comment was probably more snide than it should have been, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore the differences between the parties. I cannot conceive of how someone as personally nasty and openly corrupt as Trump could have been Nominated and Elected coming from the Democratic side.

Can you? If not, why should I make excuses for them?

These are legitimate questions that I have struggled with every day for the last two years, not just some snippy attempt to win an internet argument.

Tribal identity is a powerful thing. That's all I know to say. I have three siblings. Two of us are Democrats, the other two are Republicans. My Republican siblings despise Trump, but they like some of the things he's done (tax cut, Supreme Court nominees, etc.). I doubt they'd identify themselves as people who "approve" of his job. They're the type of people who are accepting of gay people, immigrants, and religious minorities, opposed to abortion, strong "free market"-type Republicans.

I view my Dad as a very typical Republican voter. He complains about his taxes supporting "welfare queens". He's the type who thinks that separation of church and state is important to protect the church from the state, but doesn't think that the state needs to be protected from the church. However, he did not like Trump during the primaries (Rubio voter), and was vocal about his displeasure and disbelief when Trump got the nomination. But ultimately, he voted for him in the general election, and is currently a strong personal supporter...honestly though, it has everything to do with a "Hillary would be worse" attitude and nothing to do with Trump specifically. I know for a fact that he would choose a thousand other Republicans over Trump.

And finally, the oldest generation in our family, my grandparents: Full-throated Trump supporters, voted for him in the primaries, donated to his campaign, still have the bumper stickers. They are also some of the kindest people I know, but they live in constant fear that they U.S. is being overrun by brown people bringing drugs and Shariah law (even though they've never seen it themselves...but Sean Hannity and Donald Trump say it's true, so it must be true).

I'm not trying to justify anyone's actions or beliefs. I'm just pointing out that political identity is a diverse and complex thing, and we've turned it into a stupid binary option with our stupid bifurcated political parties.

Where I live our county historically votes 97% Republican Only to get wiped out and then some by the two pretty much bordering counties and If i were to write exactly how it went down where I live this time around and with those with Older Parents/Grandparents this is exactly how I would of written it. No one expected Trump to Win they just wanted Hillary to lose and as the election went on the Party voters were shocked as he kept moving up the ladder and the way he did so.  But what shocked me the most was that Ted Cruz took 61% to Trumps 22% of the Vote in our county and Trump still won.