Poll

Are you pro-Trump or anti-Trump?

Pro-Trump
Anti-Trump
Neither

Author Topic: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?  (Read 5104 times)

Omy

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Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« on: February 06, 2019, 01:50:16 PM »
I've been curious how Mustachians as a group compare to the general population on this subject. I tried to keep the poll simple, but let me know if you think there should be more than 3 choices.

LennStar

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2019, 05:45:23 AM »
Anti-idiocy.

MrOnyx

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2019, 05:53:06 AM »
At risk of this blowing up and becoming a fiery debate, resulting in my Updated topics column becoming spammed, I'm going to just mention that one of the 'tenets' of Mustachianism is in being environmentally conscious, and looking to reduce our impact on the Earth. Trump thinks Climate Change is a conspiracy, so above all else, that sits in opposition to Mustachian values.

Omy

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2019, 06:01:45 AM »
I've been thinking about this for awhile since the vast majority of posters on this forum seem to be anti-Trump. Out in my Facebook world, it seems closer to 60-40 against Trump (which lines up with a lot of the polls).


Bateaux

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2019, 06:05:10 AM »
If the results were different, I'd be leaving this forum for good. 

Omy

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2019, 06:07:40 AM »
I am curious about the percentages and trying to figure out why it seems to differ here. I'm hoping for honest responses to the poll and to have a non-confrontational dialogue.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2019, 06:14:20 AM »
I've been thinking about this for awhile since the vast majority of posters on this forum seem to be anti-Trump. Out in my Facebook world, it seems closer to 60-40 against Trump (which lines up with a lot of the polls).

In my Facebook world, it's closer to 70-30 in favor of Trump. And that's after significant winnowing of my more outspoken Facebook "friends" leading up to and following the 2016 election. But 90% of the people I know are white people from the South, so I guess that's not too surprising. I'm a Mustachian because MMM appeals to logic, not emotion. Trump is not someone who appeals to logic (or to logical people), so you have a very self-selected group on this forum.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 06:30:07 AM by Mississippi Mudstache »

MrOnyx

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2019, 06:18:29 AM »
I've been thinking about this for awhile since the vast majority of posters on this forum seem to be anti-Trump. Out in my Facebook world, it seems closer to 60-40 against Trump (which lines up with a lot of the polls).

This forum is full of like-minded people who share at least a few values in common (frugality at the very least), like that which I already mentioned. Environmentalism and that sort of thing is considered a largely left-wing sort of deal (painting in broad strokes here), and sits at the core of Mustachianism, so I'm not overly surprised that the majority here oppose Trump. Most - if not, all - of the UK journal folk here oppose Brexit for a similar reason.

Sadly, this creates an echo chamber where we're all of the same mindset about certain things. I say 'sadly' because while it's very nice that this limits animosity, it doesn't necessarily promote progress or authentic discussion if there are no/very few opposing viewpoints.

Omy

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2019, 06:30:58 AM »

Sadly, this creates an echo chamber where we're all of the same mindset about certain things. I say 'sadly' because while it's very nice that this limits animosity, it doesn't necessarily promote progress or authentic discussion if there are no/very few opposing viewpoints.

This is a big problem. I have never "unfriended" anybody on Facebook,  but I "unfollow" the vocal extremists. It would be nice to be able to discuss, understand, find common ground, etc, but it's become next to impossible. I feel like we need to divide into two countries and move on.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2019, 06:37:27 AM »
Sadly, this creates an echo chamber where we're all of the same mindset about certain things. I say 'sadly' because while it's very nice that this limits animosity, it doesn't necessarily promote progress or authentic discussion if there are no/very few opposing viewpoints.

I'm happy to discuss facts, ideas, and the implications thereof. I'm not willing to deny or ignore objective truths for the sake of having "authentic discussions" with people who hold opposing viewpoints. We certainly have some rational conservative commenters on this forum, and I'm happy for their input, but I'm not willing to waste my time with the "Build the Wall"/"Lock Her Up" American conservatives who unfortunately seem to comprise the majority of that faction at the moment.

MrOnyx

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2019, 07:01:25 AM »
Sadly, this creates an echo chamber where we're all of the same mindset about certain things. I say 'sadly' because while it's very nice that this limits animosity, it doesn't necessarily promote progress or authentic discussion if there are no/very few opposing viewpoints.

I'm happy to discuss facts, ideas, and the implications thereof. I'm not willing to deny or ignore objective truths for the sake of having "authentic discussions" with people who hold opposing viewpoints. We certainly have some rational conservative commenters on this forum, and I'm happy for their input, but I'm not willing to waste my time with the "Build the Wall"/"Lock Her Up" American conservatives who unfortunately seem to comprise the majority of that faction at the moment.

Agreed.

The imagery generated in my mind by this comment made me realise that the 'echo chamber' metaphor can be applied in a much more literal way to these populist, extreme mouthpieces. Notice how 'Fake news' has become a household go-to statement? It's like we say it without even thinking about it now. It has slipped into our collective vocabulary almost unnoticed - like hashtag, and other non-phrases. These people hear something spoken in a certain manner or way by a certain figure, then repeat it word-for-word... like an echo-chamber.


Sadly, this creates an echo chamber where we're all of the same mindset about certain things. I say 'sadly' because while it's very nice that this limits animosity, it doesn't necessarily promote progress or authentic discussion if there are no/very few opposing viewpoints.

This is a big problem. I have never "unfriended" anybody on Facebook,  but I "unfollow" the vocal extremists. It would be nice to be able to discuss, understand, find common ground, etc, but it's become next to impossible. I feel like we need to divide into two countries and move on.

Ha! Seems like not a bad idea. I wonder if we could do this in the UK, but as a Remainer, I suspect that the idea would just be responded to with "yeah, let's! You guys can all just move to Ireland if you love Europe so much!" lol

GuitarStv

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2019, 07:47:03 AM »
I support evidence based solutions to problems, believe in science and objective truth, and don't support racism/homophobia/sexism.  So, I guess I'm rabidly anti-Trump?

Nick_Miller

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2019, 08:17:21 AM »
Echoing what Mudstache and GuitarStv said,

I just don't get Trump supporters at this point. I gave SOME of them the benefit of the doubt back in 2016 if they told me, "Nick, I just didn't trust Hillary! I couldn't vote for her!"

Note that I didn't say I agreed with them or even understood them. But I gave them the benefit of the doubt that they were more anti-Hillary than pro-Trump.

Now after 2 years of constant...just constant...sometimes daily...displays of ignorance, hatred, racism, and outright stupidity, I am writing off people I know who STILL support Trump. They can live their lives, but I have nothing to do with them.

I would like to say, "But there are still some rational conservatives," and I think there are, but not elected ones. They have all just given Trump the keys. You do have some conservative commentators like George Will, Bill Kristol, SE Cupp, etc., who have spoken out against Trump, but again they don't have any political power.

I think people can have legit disagreements about taxes, use of military, immigration, etc., but I feel that most folks these days don't want to have honest discussions. They want to argue and they want to demonize and they want to "win."

Bateaux

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2019, 08:41:27 AM »
Echoing what Mudstache and GuitarStv said,

I just don't get Trump supporters at this point. I gave SOME of them the benefit of the doubt back in 2016 if they told me, "Nick, I just didn't trust Hillary! I couldn't vote for her!"

Note that I didn't say I agreed with them or even understood them. But I gave them the benefit of the doubt that they were more anti-Hillary than pro-Trump.

Now after 2 years of constant...just constant...sometimes daily...displays of ignorance, hatred, racism, and outright stupidity, I am writing off people I know who STILL support Trump. They can live their lives, but I have nothing to do with them.

I would like to say, "But there are still some rational conservatives," and I think there are, but not elected ones. They have all just given Trump the keys. You do have some conservative commentators like George Will, Bill Kristol, SE Cupp, etc., who have spoken out against Trump, but again they don't have any political power.

I think people can have legit disagreements about taxes, use of military, immigration, etc., but I feel that most folks these days don't want to have honest discussions. They want to argue and they want to demonize and they want to "win."
This is how I feel.  I can forgive those who elected Trump in 2016.  I cannot allow myself to associate with 2019 Trump supporters.  They have crossed a line of no return with me.

v8rx7guy

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2019, 08:54:00 AM »
I'm what would probably be considered a "Never Trump" Republican.  Hated him in the Primaries and voted against him, went 3rd party in the election because I just could not vote for him.  He has lived up to my expectations of embarrassing me constantly in these first 2 years of his presidency.  On the other hand he has been good for lowering my taxes and increasing the value of my index funds.  I also approve of a handful of the things he has done while in office.  So in the end I voted "neither" in this poll.  Will still not vote for him in 2020.

BlueMR2

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2019, 09:05:23 AM »
I go with neither as I try to stick to approving or disapproving of specific policies and implementations now.  IMO, we've never actually had a "good" President during my entire life.  Some were just less bad than others.

Last election I was extremely disappointed that it came down to Clinton and Trump though.  Out of the entire field those were the bottom 2 on my list of preference.  It really was a "hold your nose" and vote for the lesser evil moment.  I have to say the Democrats showed how out of touch with the people they are and shot themselves in the foot with the Clinton selection.  IMO she was the *only* person in their entire field that Trump could beat.

DadJokes

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2019, 09:31:52 AM »
This thread should remain civil.

Personally, I don't care. I've been through a few presidencies now, and I can't point to any spot where my life has been drastically changed by what happens in Washington. The only thing that jumps out is that the military may not have expanded as much as it did without President Bush, so that route to pay for my college may not have been there under Gore, but that's iffy at best.

As far as political sway, I'm all for whatever will lower my tax bill and reduce intrusion into my life by the government. The new tax law has my tax bill to just over half of what it would have been under the previous law, so that's nice.

The bigger thing to me is the amount of energy people focus on things that are beyond their control and have little to no bearing on their lives, including supposedly "enlightened" people in the FI community. Heck, if people cared half as much about local politics, which has far more impact on our lives, as they do about national politics, you'd actually see a lot more positive changes in this country. The amount of corruption in state and local governments is just as bad as Washington, but people actually could do something about it if they paid attention.

GuitarStv

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2019, 09:45:35 AM »
I'm what would probably be considered a "Never Trump" Republican.  Hated him in the Primaries and voted against him, went 3rd party in the election because I just could not vote for him.  He has lived up to my expectations of embarrassing me constantly in these first 2 years of his presidency.  On the other hand he has been good for lowering my taxes and increasing the value of my index funds.  I also approve of a handful of the things he has done while in office.  So in the end I voted "neither" in this poll.  Will still not vote for him in 2020.

What action of Trump's has increased the value of your index funds?

shenlong55

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2019, 10:26:26 AM »
This thread should remain civil.

Personally, I don't care. I've been through a few presidencies now, and I can't point to any spot where my life has been drastically changed by what happens in Washington. The only thing that jumps out is that the military may not have expanded as much as it did without President Bush, so that route to pay for my college may not have been there under Gore, but that's iffy at best.

As far as political sway, I'm all for whatever will lower my tax bill and reduce intrusion into my life by the government. The new tax law has my tax bill to just over half of what it would have been under the previous law, so that's nice.

The bigger thing to me is the amount of energy people focus on things that are beyond their control and have little to no bearing on their lives, including supposedly "enlightened" people in the FI community.

Honestly, I probably can't either.  But I choose to care about how our government/society affects other people as well.  That means at least listening to what others say about how our government/society affects them and then finding methods within my area of control that can help to fix those instances where it treats them poorly.

Heck, if people cared half as much about local politics, which has far more impact on our lives, as they do about national politics, you'd actually see a lot more positive changes in this country. The amount of corruption in state and local governments is just as bad as Washington, but people actually could do something about it if they paid attention.

Any suggestions as to how to get more involved in local politics?  It's easy to find information about national politics online, but not so much for local politics.

DadJokes

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2019, 10:49:48 AM »

Any suggestions as to how to get more involved in local politics?  It's easy to find information about national politics online, but not so much for local politics.

I don't know of a set way, but I got involved by going to town hall meetings. I had a few issues in my county- the traffic, how little teachers are paid compared to surrounding counties, and the poor planning surrounding the rapid growth here. I started going to town hall meetings, getting to know the members, and saw that it is basically a "good-ol' boy" network where there were just a few in power handing out contracts to friends.

I looked through the financial statements and compared expenses to CAFRs of other counties and saw where we were wasting money unnecessarily, so I began to point it out on the local Facebook pages, which has made some people a little more angry about it, though I doubt it has changed much overall.

We also had some school board members who claimed they would vote one way on a couple issues before the election, then did the opposite after. That created such a firestorm that one member has received threats, and the school superintendent has resigned. I'm hoping we see some real changes there in the next election cycle.

Kris

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2019, 10:54:39 AM »

Any suggestions as to how to get more involved in local politics?  It's easy to find information about national politics online, but not so much for local politics.

I would say, get involved in your city/town council (if you live in a small town) or in a district community council, if you live in a larger city. This is a good way to start effecting change at a very local level, and also to get to know people on the boards the "next step up" (including the mayor).

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2019, 10:56:49 AM »
Heck, if people cared half as much about local politics, which has far more impact on our lives, as they do about national politics, you'd actually see a lot more positive changes in this country. The amount of corruption in state and local governments is just as bad as Washington, but people actually could do something about it if they paid attention.

Any suggestions as to how to get more involved in local politics?  It's easy to find information about national politics online, but not so much for local politics.

  • If you are a member of one party, look up the County [Democratic/Republican/Green/etc] party and begin going to meetings.
  • Look up local clubs for your party and go to meetings
  • Google groups in your area for a particular issue you're passionate about (clean water, housing, etc) and go to meetings
  • Go to school board meetings
  • Go to community board meetings
  • Attend town halls for your assemblyperson/state representative
  • Look up what bills are coming up and call your state/local reps about them
  • Find a Represent.Us group if you're in the US and care about election finance reform

Basically start showing up in person at events and talk to people. You don't need the perfect entry point, you just need an entry point. The people you meet at the local political events will be thrilled to point you in the right direction, since not many people are interested.

OtherJen

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2019, 11:04:47 AM »
Any suggestions as to how to get more involved in local politics?  It's easy to find information about national politics online, but not so much for local politics.

League of Women Voters! (Not just for women.) Non-partisan voter education and advocacy. I really enjoyed working on projects related to local city elections a couple of years ago.

Freedom2016

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2019, 11:49:15 AM »
Any suggestions as to how to get more involved in local politics?  It's easy to find information about national politics online, but not so much for local politics.

I volunteered to serve on a town subcommittee. Then I volunteered to serve on another town subcommittee. I was asked recently if I want to run for a seat on the Board of Selectmen. Talk about influencing what happens in my town!

I'm too busy right now to do that, but I might consider it in the future.

LennStar

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2019, 11:54:32 AM »
I support evidence based solutions to problems, believe in science and objective truth, and don't support racism/homophobia/sexism.  So, I guess I'm rabidly anti-Trump?
No, that means Trump is radically Anti-GuitarStv

You being Anti-Trump is not a causation connection, but a second result of your stances.

Quote
I can't point to any spot where my life has been drastically changed by what happens in Washington.
Luckily you don't live in a radius of 2000 miles of Iran ;)

btw. The biggest impact in politics you can have is in changing the election process to something that at least a halfway resembles a real  Democracy. (Admitteldy that may be the hardest thing too.)
As it is now, less than 10% of voters in the US have a chance to determine the results. Not to mention that I think the last 3 Republican presidents were all elected with another candidate having more votes...

But speaking of those things, in case you haven't seen it, here is a video you have to watch:

https://boingboing.net/2019/02/06/the-mask-slips.html

I am still laughing. And I still have not found out where that speaker sees an attack against capitalism.

anisotropy

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2019, 12:11:36 PM »
I support evidence based solutions to problems, believe in science and objective truth, and don't support racism/homophobia/sexism.  So, I guess I'm rabidly anti-Trump?
No, that means Trump is radically Anti-GuitarStv

You being Anti-Trump is not a causation connection, but a second result of your stances.

I lol'd at this.

Quote
Any suggestions as to how to get more involved in local politics?  It's easy to find information about national politics online, but not so much for local politics.

You can be a volunteer member of your party and school board meetings.

shenlong55

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2019, 06:19:46 PM »
Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone!  I've saved them all so that I can look into them further.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2019, 04:41:12 AM »
I've been one of the few admitted Trump supporters so those that feel they need to not associate, interact or bash me, whatever go for it as I wont even respond because that s the problem this country has come to. I too supported Obama once he was elected as my parents supported candidates when there preferred candidate didn't win and that's what we all need to get back to.  Do I like all he has done? heck no. But there never has been a President that has. Some do more good than others yes and some do more bad. Some though also step into worse situations that each party blames the other for being at fault.  I feel there is a lot of good on both sides of the aisle but the extremists do so much damage no one will ever sit down and hammer things out until it becomes reactionary or if not the consequences are severe. An my final statement is the whole Facebook thing is just people finding articles written to support what they think they believe. Its no different then CNN and Fox News. Just stay away from all that shit and you will find yourself a lot happier. Respect your neighbors right to vote and who they chose as opposed to feeling the need to trash and change there mind because odds are you wont. Washington is loaded with buffoons, so I agree get more involved with your local Government. So to the OP this Triple M is Pro-Trump.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 04:43:15 AM by soccerluvof4 »

MasterStache

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2019, 06:08:11 AM »
I too supported Obama once he was elected as my parents supported candidates when there preferred candidate didn't win and that's what we all need to get back to.

Not going to bash you personally but pointing out that I whole heatedly disagree with this. I'll be the first to admit when I am wrong. I was wrong in my support of Bush Jr. and wrong in my initial lack of support for Obama. While I had hoped that I again could be wrong in my lack of support for Trump, he has only solidified that I made the right choice. I refuse to concede my own moral principles simply because someone was elected to a position of power by a minority of people. That's the great thing about living in this country and not one which practices totalitarianism. 

MrOnyx

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2019, 06:37:23 AM »
I too supported Obama once he was elected as my parents supported candidates when there preferred candidate didn't win and that's what we all need to get back to.

Not going to bash you personally but pointing out that I whole heatedly disagree with this. I'll be the first to admit when I am wrong. I was wrong in my support of Bush Jr. and wrong in my initial lack of support for Obama. While I had hoped that I again could be wrong in my lack of support for Trump, he has only solidified that I made the right choice. I refuse to concede my own moral principles simply because someone was elected to a position of power by a minority of people. That's the great thing about living in this country and not one which practices totalitarianism.

I think this is a good point. Again, I won't bash anyone here for what or whom they believe in, but I agree that we shouldn't start supporting a leader we didn't vote for just because they're in power now. Stay true to what you believe in, and remain cautious and critical - even about leaders you do support.

I know we aren't talking about British leaders, but from my frame of reference, I could never see myself supporting Theresa May, for instance. I personally expect that when she steps down and the polls come in afterwards, she'll be at the very bottom of the popularity charts. Sure, she's had a hard task dumped on her, but she's stumbled and messed it up at just about every conceivable point. A very weak leader.

Back to Trump/America, again, it is better to err on the side of caution and think critically rather than emotionally.

CindyBS

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2019, 06:54:30 AM »
If you life has not been affected in anyway by Trump being president, that is a privilege and please recognize that for many people it has not been the case.  I consider myself pretty well off in life, but still have had issues.  When the skinny repeal of the ACA was up for a vote, I was terrified.  My son has cancer and we live in a state that would most likely not enforce the need to protect pre-existing conditions.  Having your entire financial future and the ability to pay for your child's life saving health care up the air over this BS to "own the libs" by repealing Obamacare, including all the protections for people like us, was unnecessarily cruel.  One of the factors that went into whether or not my son had a bone marrow transplant is if his insurance would be cut off by Trump and the republicans if we waited to do it in the future. 

Another time, shortly after the Brett Kavanagh hearing I was about to go into the post office on the weekend so it was relatively quiet.  There was one white man in the Post Office.  Every woman has met a Brett Kavanagh before - entitled, no regard for women, could possibly rape or attack you if the circumstances were in his favor, etc.  I stayed in the car until the man left, something I never felt like I had to do before Trump came along.  Chances are the post office guy was a perfectly nice, polite, safe guy to be around.  But after watching the reaction to the Kavanagh hearings and realizing there is a large group of people who rationalize sexual assault and mistreatment of women.  Add to that list the men who told me to "make them a sandwich", the ones that said pussy grabbing was just locker room talk, and just general disregard for women all around.  If it they wouldn't assault me, would they stand by and do nothing to protect one of their own if someone else did?  I am definitely more cautious about sexual assault, putting myself in potentially dangerous situations in places like parking lots, walking at night, etc. after the reaction to the hearings and increase in misogyny since Trump came along.  This limits my freedom of movement.  Just last night I drove somewhere I would have walked to 5 years ago due to not wanting to walk home alone in the dark. 

talltexan

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2019, 07:09:34 AM »
Set aside the political issues, and focus on Trump the brand, the lifestyle pre-2011.

Mustachianism is about reducing consumption and impact on the earth while maintaining happiness at the same level. Trump the brand is about luxury. Golden elevators. Massive buildings in the center of urban areas. Opulence. These don't sound mustachian to me.

FrugalToque

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2019, 07:13:47 AM »
I'm living in Canada, so it's a bit different here.  We're much less patient with leaders who behave as cruelly and arrogantly as he does.

He's obviously an uneducated, selfish, racist, misogynist sort of person.  He has no empathy for anyone at all and is obviously up to his neck in pretty terrible crimes.  Whether he's "good for the economy" or not isn't really relevant.  It's simply that his "value" system is so objectively, chaotically evil that you can't possibly trust him to do anything good.

If you put him in charge of a convenience store, he'd be doctoring the milk tags to trick you into buying expired milk.  I can't imagine why anyone would put him in charge of a country, except that there's a hope his horribly selfish behaviour will lead him to do something that somehow aligns with your needs.  As one of his former followers said, "He's not hurting the people he needs to be." She bought into the government of "cruelty against them" and didn't check on who "them" included.

Honestly, most people outside of the U.S. don't understand how anywhere near half of your population could have ever supported such a despicable example of humanity.

Toque.

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2019, 07:20:40 AM »
If you life has not been affected in anyway by Trump being president, that is a privilege and please recognize that for many people it has not been the case.  I consider myself pretty well off in life, but still have had issues.  When the skinny repeal of the ACA was up for a vote, I was terrified.  My son has cancer and we live in a state that would most likely not enforce the need to protect pre-existing conditions.  Having your entire financial future and the ability to pay for your child's life saving health care up the air over this BS to "own the libs" by repealing Obamacare, including all the protections for people like us, was unnecessarily cruel.  One of the factors that went into whether or not my son had a bone marrow transplant is if his insurance would be cut off by Trump and the republicans if we waited to do it in the future. 

I hear you. I had accepted a new job in Georgia with a small employer as of October 2016. I was due to start in January 2017. When Trump was elected in November, I seriously reconsidered the job, because my employer is small (5 employees + the owner), and their insurance plan was only willing to cover my son (born with spina bifida) due to the ACA's abolishment of pre-existing conditions exclusions. I was terrified that I would accept a new job in a new state only to have my insurance coverage axed if Trump and the Republican congress actually succeeded in repealing the ACA. Honestly, the outrage and backlash in the months that followed Trump's election was the one thing that gave me confidence that a full ACA repeal was not going to be as easy as Republicans had made it out to be. I'm glad I accepted the job, and I'm even more glad that ACA is still in force so my son can get healthcare.

vern

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2019, 07:32:03 AM »
Michael Moore understood why Trump won...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxDRqeuLNag

OtherJen

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2019, 07:37:32 AM »
If you life has not been affected in anyway by Trump being president, that is a privilege and please recognize that for many people it has not been the case.  I consider myself pretty well off in life, but still have had issues.  When the skinny repeal of the ACA was up for a vote, I was terrified.  My son has cancer and we live in a state that would most likely not enforce the need to protect pre-existing conditions.  Having your entire financial future and the ability to pay for your child's life saving health care up the air over this BS to "own the libs" by repealing Obamacare, including all the protections for people like us, was unnecessarily cruel.  One of the factors that went into whether or not my son had a bone marrow transplant is if his insurance would be cut off by Trump and the republicans if we waited to do it in the future. 

I hear you. I had accepted a new job in Georgia with a small employer as of October 2016. I was due to start in January 2017. When Trump was elected in November, I seriously reconsidered the job, because my employer is small (5 employees + the owner), and their insurance plan was only willing to cover my son (born with spina bifida) due to the ACA's abolishment of pre-existing conditions exclusions. I was terrified that I would accept a new job in a new state only to have my insurance coverage axed if Trump and the Republican congress actually succeeded in repealing the ACA. Honestly, the outrage and backlash in the months that followed Trump's election was the one thing that gave me confidence that a full ACA repeal was not going to be as easy as Republicans had made it out to be. I'm glad I accepted the job, and I'm even more glad that ACA is still in force so my son can get healthcare.

This. Iíve been a successful freelancer and love my work, but I would have to give it up if the ACA were repealed because husbandís employer (small business) would no longer provide even the bronze-level plan that they currently offer to full-time employees. Husband has pre-existing conditions so finding non-employer coverage for him that wouldnít be prohibitively expensive would be a nightmare.

What a privilege it must be to be able to claim that national politics has no bearing on oneís life.

DadJokes

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2019, 07:42:36 AM »
You know, part of the mustachian schtick is taking charge of your own life and not letting outside circumstances control you. If something you don't directly control has that much bearing on your life, maybe you should reconsider where you live or find a workaround. Personally, I took a job that pays less but offers fantastic benefits.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2019, 07:52:47 AM »
You know, part of the mustachian schtick is taking charge of your own life and not letting outside circumstances control you. If something you don't directly control has that much bearing on your life, maybe you should reconsider where you live or find a workaround. Personally, I took a job that pays less but offers fantastic benefits.


That is a very mean-spirited and self-centered comment.  I hope it doesn't reflect your general attitude

Please reread CindyBS and OtherJen 's posts.   They had no control over health issues, and are trying to cope with a system that seems to want to get them.  Just because you are OK doesn't mean that policy doesn't affect others.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 07:54:21 AM by RetiredAt63 »

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2019, 07:55:14 AM »
You know, part of the mustachian schtick is taking charge of your own life and not letting outside circumstances control you. If something you don't directly control has that much bearing on your life, maybe you should reconsider where you live or find a workaround. Personally, I took a job that pays less but offers fantastic benefits.

Taking control of my life was exactly what I was doing by reconsidering my move to a small employer, given the threat of ACA repeal. You seem to be conflating "letting outside circumstances control you" with "responding rationally to outside circumstances beyond one's control". Like it or not, you live in this world and are subject to its realities, and so am I.

OtherJen

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2019, 08:22:33 AM »
You know, part of the mustachian schtick is taking charge of your own life and not letting outside circumstances control you. If something you don't directly control has that much bearing on your life, maybe you should reconsider where you live or find a workaround. Personally, I took a job that pays less but offers fantastic benefits.

So your response is get out of the country where I was born or give up my clients to become dependent on an employer? Why not a third option of true healthcare reform that would actually give people more control over their employment choices?

DadJokes

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2019, 08:26:27 AM »
You know, part of the mustachian schtick is taking charge of your own life and not letting outside circumstances control you. If something you don't directly control has that much bearing on your life, maybe you should reconsider where you live or find a workaround. Personally, I took a job that pays less but offers fantastic benefits.


That is a very mean-spirited and self-centered comment.  I hope it doesn't reflect your general attitude

Please reread CindyBS and OtherJen 's posts.   They had no control over health issues, and are trying to cope with a system that seems to want to get them.  Just because you are OK doesn't mean that policy doesn't affect others.

I know they have no control over their health issues, but their two options are to complain about a system that they have very little control over, or to do something that puts them in a better position. That may mean going to a new employer, a different state, or even a different country.

I'm not defending either side politically, since neither party is concerned with anything other than keeping themselves in power. But taking control of your life means more than just having a lot of money. It means putting yourself in a position to succeed within your circumstances.

Kris

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2019, 08:28:27 AM »
You know, part of the mustachian schtick is taking charge of your own life and not letting outside circumstances control you. If something you don't directly control has that much bearing on your life, maybe you should reconsider where you live or find a workaround. Personally, I took a job that pays less but offers fantastic benefits.

I always find remarks like this to smack of privileged smugness and also quite a lack of imagination. As though the person speaking believes that he is a member of some sort of small minority that uniquely actually tries to find solutions to their problems, whereas the rest of the population just freezes and drops to the ground like a helpless mass of goo. And also as though the person speaking is literally unable to fathom that the decisions of someone else in a position of power could someday negatively impact the speaker's life in a way that they would not be able to simply 'find a workaround' for.

Yes, mustachianism is about taking responsibility for one's own life. But I hope it's not also about using the philosophy as an excuse not to give a damn about other people.

FrugalToque

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2019, 08:33:04 AM »
I'm not defending either side politically, since neither party is concerned with anything other than keeping themselves in power. But taking control of your life means more than just having a lot of money. It means putting yourself in a position to succeed within your circumstances.

That seems a bit defeatist.  Basically, you're saying that you think both sides won't do anything good, so don't bother trying to work together with your fellow citizens to make a better or fairer country.

I mean, obviously I don't agree with your premise (all politicians only care about power), but even if that were true, why would you let people like that continue to run things?

OtherJen

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2019, 08:34:33 AM »
You know, part of the mustachian schtick is taking charge of your own life and not letting outside circumstances control you. If something you don't directly control has that much bearing on your life, maybe you should reconsider where you live or find a workaround. Personally, I took a job that pays less but offers fantastic benefits.

I always find remarks like this to smack of privileged smugness and also quite a lack of imagination. As though the person speaking believes that he is a member of some sort of small minority that uniquely actually tries to find solutions to their problems, whereas the rest of the population just freezes and drops to the ground like a helpless mass of goo. And also as though the person speaking is literally unable to fathom that the decisions of someone else in a position of power could someday negatively impact the speaker's life in a way that they would not be able to simply 'find a workaround' for.

Yes, mustachianism is about taking responsibility for one's own life. But I hope it's not also about using the philosophy as an excuse not to give a damn about other people.

The more time I spend here, the more I wonder about your latter statement. I'm all for responsibility and have gleaned a lot from this site. But the attitude exemplified by DadJokes is increasingly prevalent. I think it's time to spend my mental energy elsewhere.

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2019, 08:36:40 AM »
You know, part of the mustachian schtick is taking charge of your own life and not letting outside circumstances control you. If something you don't directly control has that much bearing on your life, maybe you should reconsider where you live or find a workaround. Personally, I took a job that pays less but offers fantastic benefits.


That is a very mean-spirited and self-centered comment.  I hope it doesn't reflect your general attitude

Please reread CindyBS and OtherJen 's posts.   They had no control over health issues, and are trying to cope with a system that seems to want to get them.  Just because you are OK doesn't mean that policy doesn't affect others.

I know they have no control over their health issues, but their two options are to complain about a system that they have very little control over, or to do something that puts them in a better position. That may mean going to a new employer, a different state, or even a different country.

I'm not defending either side politically, since neither party is concerned with anything other than keeping themselves in power. But taking control of your life means more than just having a lot of money. It means putting yourself in a position to succeed within your circumstances.

There's no reason we can't do both. Someone's opinion of what the government should do is independent of the actions they take. Why are you assuming that the people you're talking to aren't taking the actions they find most appropriate given present information?

I feel like you're also missing the point of these comments. They were made in response to your "oh well, doesn't affect me" attitude. All they're trying to say is "that's nice, but some of us are not so lucky."

Kris

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2019, 08:57:59 AM »
With so many badass Mustachians commenting on this thread already, I was disappointed that no one had mentioned or linked the below. I think I agree with most here in terms of the poll, but I didn't vote, because I think it's focusing on the wrong question.

Our Dear Leader Himself. Any time spent thinking about things beyond your control are a waste of your precious life energy. Rather, by focusing more on what we can control, we can actually expand our sphere of influence.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/10/07/how-big-is-your-circle-of-control/

I find there are certain aspects of that post that have not aged particularly well.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2019, 09:52:30 AM »
I know many people who expanded their sphere of influence to include politics, from local to national. I went from knocking on doors to community organizing to supporting critical national campaigns within two years. Friends have gotten on county boards, lobbied for election reform, or become campaign managers.

That circle of control post includes "how you vote" and "run for office?" Pete was talking about not endlessly reading the news (concern) and doing nothing about it, but to instead drill down on what you can control (informed voting, getting involved in politics).

Being aware of healthcare or tax changes that could affect you are obviously important, as is doing something about it when able to. We don't set tax laws, but we can change who gets elected and sometimes change what policies are passed.

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2019, 09:59:03 AM »
Michael Moore understood why Trump won...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxDRqeuLNag

Yeah, he is right.
But the problem is that the damage will be done mostly to the voters, not to "the system". Trump is part of it, after all. A even more than normal selfish part, but still a part.
And he will destroy every progress made in the last 30 years. In some cases he has already done it.

btw. Here is something about the person that made Trump president (as others before): https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/so-let's-speculate-about-the-future-of-a-full-trump-presidency/msg2288324/#msg2288324
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 10:54:44 AM by LennStar »

jeninco

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2019, 10:44:02 AM »
You know, part of the mustachian schtick is taking charge of your own life and not letting outside circumstances control you. If something you don't directly control has that much bearing on your life, maybe you should reconsider where you live or find a workaround. Personally, I took a job that pays less but offers fantastic benefits.

I always find remarks like this to smack of privileged smugness and also quite a lack of imagination. As though the person speaking believes that he is a member of some sort of small minority that uniquely actually tries to find solutions to their problems, whereas the rest of the population just freezes and drops to the ground like a helpless mass of goo. And also as though the person speaking is literally unable to fathom that the decisions of someone else in a position of power could someday negatively impact the speaker's life in a way that they would not be able to simply 'find a workaround' for.

Yes, mustachianism is about taking responsibility for one's own life. But I hope it's not also about using the philosophy as an excuse not to give a damn about other people.

The more time I spend here, the more I wonder about your latter statement. I'm all for responsibility and have gleaned a lot from this site. But the attitude exemplified by DadJokes is increasingly prevalent. I think it's time to spend my mental energy elsewhere.

I've noticed a new prevalence of mean-spiritedness here as well. OtherJen, I hope you reconsider and stay!

DadJokes, it's great that you believe that your life is under your control. Those of us who are, say, female, or non-white, or non-Christian are watching our freedoms be systematically eroded.  (Say, the freedom to make our own damn health-care decisions. Or the freedom to not be sexually assaulted if we go out in public. Or the freedom to drive a car and not be arrested. Or -- shit, how about the freedom to be paid the same amount as the guy in the next office doing the same work!) But hey -- your index funds are going up! Cool!

DadJokes

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Re: Are Mustachians pro-Trump or anti-Trump?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2019, 11:00:08 AM »
I've noticed a new prevalence of mean-spiritedness here as well. OtherJen, I hope you reconsider and stay!

DadJokes, it's great that you believe that your life is under your control. Those of us who are, say, female, or non-white, or non-Christian are watching our freedoms be systematically eroded.  (Say, the freedom to make our own damn health-care decisions. Or the freedom to not be sexually assaulted if we go out in public. Or the freedom to drive a car and not be arrested. Or -- shit, how about the freedom to be paid the same amount as the guy in the next office doing the same work!) But hey -- your index funds are going up! Cool!

What does race, gender, or religion have to do with it? I'm Hispanic and atheist...

I think you're letting journalists with an agenda put thoughts in your head instead of thinking for yourself.