Any Republicans out there doing the right thing....

[PDXTabs]

Is there something I'm missing?

My packages from Los Angeles, CA to Portland, OR that used to take three days now take nine, and suddenly get routed through Texas?

I'll never vote for another Republican for as long as I live (and I used to frequently as an avid shooter, but that was before they showed themselves to be the party of obstructionists during the Obama years). You can have a different opinion on the direction to take the country, as long as that direction isn't obstruction and decay.

I'm not convinced by anecdotal evidence. I shipped a package on eBay two weeks ago through USPS and it arrived at the destination early.

Define anecdotal? The USPS tracking numbers were 92001902214058000042644250 and 92001902214058000044501797. The origin and destination were identical, one month apart. You explain the trip through Texas.

[MDM]

Define anecdotal?

based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation

[MasterStache]

Define anecdotal?

based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation

I believe PDXTabs was being facetious. Yes it is one person's observation. However, USPS internal documents show a steep decline in on time mail delivery about 1 month after DeJoy took over. Even DeJoy admitted as such in his testimony.

Now let's imagine that was a veterans medication that they need to get by on. Is it acceptable that it arrives 6 days later than normal? 

FWIW, Portland itself saw 7 mail sorting machines removed. Coincidence?   

[talltexan]

Is there something I'm missing?

My packages from Los Angeles, CA to Portland, OR that used to take three days now take nine, and suddenly get routed through Texas?

I'll never vote for another Republican for as long as I live (and I used to frequently as an avid shooter, but that was before they showed themselves to be the party of obstructionists during the Obama years). You can have a different opinion on the direction to take the country, as long as that direction isn't obstruction and decay.

I'm not convinced by anecdotal evidence. I shipped a package on eBay two weeks ago through USPS and it arrived at the destination early.

I'm not voting republican either. Nor have I ever for president. I don't have much choice for local candidates in the south. Many times it is republican vs. republican.

I, too, live and vote in a southern state. You can tell someone running for an office is a Democrat because their ads never mention the word "Democrat". It's like a swear word here.

[J Boogie]

There could be a conflict of interest if USPS creates a request for proposal and XPO is a bidder. But if DeJoy recuses himself from the situation, I don't see a problem.

Except that his subordinates are well aware their boss would have a clear favorite and it would not be unreasonable to assume they have incentive to choose XPO to curry favor with DeJoy.

Just because they might have a motive doesn't mean they will act on it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_motive

I'm not sure how this is related to election fraud either.

You have mistaken my point for a logical fallacy. By your logic conflicts of interest themselves would be fallacious - just because they have a motive doesn't mean they will act on it. The point is to create an environment where they won't have a motive.

[PDXTabs]

Define anecdotal?

based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation

I believe PDXTabs was being facetious.

I wasn't even. I ship the same package from the same address in LA to Portland once per month. That might not be a good systematic scientific evaluation, but it is systematic and I only change one variable per shipment (the date). Obviously, it is an overly narrow study because it only covers mail from LA to Portland.

[ncornilsen]

Take this for what it's worth, but a close relative is a mail carrier.

-The mailboxes they have removed are ones they all joked about never having anything in them.
-The union whiners she works with don't like that DeJoy wants to make them run more like a business, but acknowledge that it will save money.
-The machines being removed have zero impact on letter delivery, weren't really run anyway, and are making space for the package sorting that has grown, while letter volumes have fallen.


My comments:
Oregon has had Mail in for a long time. Yet, they STILL have problems. Documented cases of giving illegal aliens ballots, changing peoples registrations, etc. I can attest to one of them, I confirmed my registration early in 2020, yet it was changed during the primary and I got a democrat ballot. I send the evidence I had, heard nothing back.

Other states have had huge problems too, thousands of ballots disappearing, and elections where the results weren't known for weeks. These things are in the news. photos, evidence, testimony. it fucking happened... in democrat control states no less! This nonsense I keep seeing about there being "no evidence" of problems with mail in voting has gotten ridiculous.

The surest way to have trump refuse to leave office would be to do a half-assed mail in voting effort, have a 100,000 ballots show up a week after the votes were tallied, and have Trump start a shitshow of challenges, demand recounts, etc.  Doing a rushed mail in effort, if anything, gives him cover to not leave office.

[RetiredAt63]

Take this for what it's worth, but a close relative is a mail carrier.

-The mailboxes they have removed are ones they all joked about never having anything in them.
-The union whiners she works with don't like that DeJoy wants to make them run more like a business, but acknowledge that it will save money.
-The machines being removed have zero impact on letter delivery, weren't really run anyway, and are making space for the package sorting that has grown, while letter volumes have fallen.


My comments:
Oregon has had Mail in for a long time. Yet, they STILL have problems. Documented cases of giving illegal aliens ballots, changing peoples registrations, etc. I can attest to one of them, I confirmed my registration early in 2020, yet it was changed during the primary and I got a democrat ballot. I send the evidence I had, heard nothing back.

Other states have had huge problems too, thousands of ballots disappearing, and elections where the results weren't known for weeks. These things are in the news. photos, evidence, testimony. it fucking happened... in democrat control states no less! This nonsense I keep seeing about there being "no evidence" of problems with mail in voting has gotten ridiculous.

The surest way to have trump refuse to leave office would be to do a half-assed mail in voting effort, have a 100,000 ballots show up a week after the votes were tallied, and have Trump start a shitshow of challenges, demand recounts, etc.  Doing a rushed mail in effort, if anything, gives him cover to not leave office.

You mention these issues in Democrat controlled states.  Do State governments have any say in Federal service like the USPS?  I don't think provincial premiers have much say in how Canada Post is run, except to complain.  If the USPS is totally federally controlled, how can it matter if a state is R or D?

Canada Post is super busy, since people are doing a lot more mail order shopping with Covid.  Isn't  the USPS also busier as more people do more mail order?  One would think they should be getting more resources,  not fewer.  My cynical side would say that more mail order shopping and worse USPS service pushes vendors to private services, which increases costs to consumers and makes money for those invested in the private services.

[Samuel]

The surest way to have trump refuse to leave office would be to do a half-assed mail in voting effort, have a 100,000 ballots show up a week after the votes were tallied, and have Trump start a shitshow of challenges, demand recounts, etc.  Doing a rushed mail in effort, if anything, gives him cover to not leave office.

That is an excellent point.

[Fishindude]

Any Republicans out there doing the right thing....

Yep ...... I've pretty much tuned out the mainstream media and news B.S. and do my best to ignore most of the liberal democrat drivel.
We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.




 

[zinnie]

Not me but I have at least three acquaintances and family members who are! I’m super proud of them. It’s not easy for them and that makes it even more admirable in my mind.

[PDXTabs]

We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

Have you ever voted overseas before? This is often (but not exclusively) accomplished via international mail.

Also, just pretending that voting isn't a problem, what about mail order prescriptions? Those people can just curl up and die? Farmers that ordered baby chicks that are dying in transit can suck it?

[Kris]

We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

That may be the most classist thing I have ever read on this forum. And that’s saying something.

[MasterStache]

Any Republicans out there doing the right thing....

Yep ...... I've pretty much tuned out the mainstream media and news B.S. and do my best to ignore most of the liberal democrat drivel.
We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

Don’t sell yourself short. You’ve tuned out Democrat’s and humanity.

[ncornilsen]

We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

Have you ever voted overseas before? This is often (but not exclusively) accomplished via international mail.

Also, just pretending that voting isn't a problem, what about mail order prescriptions? Those people can just curl up and die? Farmers that ordered baby chicks that are dying in transit can suck it?

Farmers have had to deal with the chicken thing for years. It's only news now because Orange man bad.

---

Other states have had huge problems too, thousands of ballots disappearing, and elections where the results weren't known for weeks. These things are in the news. photos, evidence, testimony. it fucking happened... in democrat control states no less! This nonsense I keep seeing about there being "no evidence" of problems with mail in voting has gotten ridiculous.

---

You mention these issues in Democrat controlled states.  Do State governments have any say in Federal service like the USPS?  I don't think provincial premiers have much say in how Canada Post is run, except to complain.  If the USPS is totally federally controlled, how can it matter if a state is R or D?

Canada Post is super busy, since people are doing a lot more mail order shopping with Covid.  Isn't  the USPS also busier as more people do more mail order?  One would think they should be getting more resources,  not fewer.  My cynical side would say that more mail order shopping and worse USPS service pushes vendors to private services, which increases costs to consumers and makes money for those invested in the private services.

I mention democrat controlled states to head off the narrative that "republican states sabotage their own mail in efforts to prove trump right." Some of the issues haven't even been related to the post office itself, but with how they have been handled on either end.

The USPS has been busier of course. They are getting more resources by being paid more postage.  Consumers will only benefit from the presence of private package carriers.

[MasterStache]

We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

Have you ever voted overseas before? This is often (but not exclusively) accomplished via international mail.

Also, just pretending that voting isn't a problem, what about mail order prescriptions? Those people can just curl up and die? Farmers that ordered baby chicks that are dying in transit can suck it?

Farmers have had to deal with the chicken thing for years. It's only news now because Orange man bad.

Can you provide sources for farmers routinely receiving thousands of dead chicks? Every quote from the farmers I have read said exactly the opposite.

[RetiredAt63]

Anecdata, someone on Ravelry said that California to California mail is working for her. Florida to California is terrible.  Mail with tracking is staying in one location for days.

[PDXTabs]

We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

Have you ever voted overseas before? This is often (but not exclusively) accomplished via international mail.

Also, just pretending that voting isn't a problem, what about mail order prescriptions? Those people can just curl up and die? Farmers that ordered baby chicks that are dying in transit can suck it?

Farmers have had to deal with the chicken thing for years. It's only news now because Orange man bad.

Can you provide sources for farmers routinely receiving thousands of dead chicks? Every quote from the farmers I have read said exactly the opposite.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-20/usps-cutbacks-post-office-chaos

[MasterStache]

We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

Have you ever voted overseas before? This is often (but not exclusively) accomplished via international mail.

Also, just pretending that voting isn't a problem, what about mail order prescriptions? Those people can just curl up and die? Farmers that ordered baby chicks that are dying in transit can suck it?

Farmers have had to deal with the chicken thing for years. It's only news now because Orange man bad.

Can you provide sources for farmers routinely receiving thousands of dead chicks? Every quote from the farmers I have read said exactly the opposite.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-20/usps-cutbacks-post-office-chaos

I was questioning the claim made by ncornilsen that "Farmers have had to deal with the chicken thing for years." I looked but couldn't find any reference of them routinely receiving thousands of dead chickens. All I can find is farmers complaining about how the dead chicken they are receiving now isn't normal.

[PDXTabs]

MasterStache,

Yup, I figured out what you meant after I finished my morning coffee. Either way I thought that it would add some more context to the discussion.

[partgypsy]

Any Republicans out there doing the right thing....

Yep ...... I've pretty much tuned out the mainstream media and news B.S. and do my best to ignore most of the liberal democrat drivel.
We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

Really? A lot of overseas military vote by mail. And many elderly and people with serious health conditions are self isolating and also will not show up in person to vote. Most college students are not going to travel to their home state to vote, and drive back again. Just because it's not a problem for you, doesn't mean it's not a problem. And honestly I would take what you are saying more seriously if the White house or people in charge were doing things to make voting more safe (early voting, more voting locations, etc) than actually doing the opposite and making it harder to vote (reducing locations, time windows, ability to vote by mail, etc).  Last general election there were locations (yes urban primarily Democratic voting) where people had to wait in line hours to vote.

And again, Trump and DeJoy do not have to slow ALL mail. They just need to slow mail in particular counties and states that may decide the election. It would not take much. And Trump installed someone as Postmaster, as well as a huge number of long time executives at the Postal service were fired (who would or could say something about these changes) to be able to do exactly that. We are just looking at a crime scene before it happens. Anyways the damage has been done at this point.

You don't have to take my word for it that what DeJoy and Trump are doing IS to make mail in voting less secure, less trusted, and possibly not counted on time. the USPS sent letters to 46 states saying they could not promise ballots would be delivered on time.  It's not hypothetical. It's what they are predicting. To be fair this doesn't just have to do with the USPS. It also has to do with state laws, including that the ballot must be received by election day, which may be impossible given when ballots are mailed out and when they can be mailed back.

(Portion of letter from US postal Service to 46 states)
"Under our reading of your state’s election laws as in effect on July 27, 2020, certain state-law requirements and deadlines appear to be incompatible with the Postal Service’s delivery standards and the recommended timeframe notes above. As a result, to the extent that the mail is used to transmit ballots to and from voters, there is a significant risk that, at least in certain circumstances, ballots may be requested in a manner that is consistent with your election rules and returned promptly, and yet not be returned in time to be counted."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/usps-states-delayed-mail-in-ballots/2020/08/14/64bf3c3c-dcc7-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html

[mm1970]

We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

That may be the most classist thing I have ever read on this forum. And that’s saying something.

Not to mention the thousands of overseas soldiers and sailors who I guess will be able to tell their CO's "please fly me home to vote, thanks".

But really...boy, some people don't read that much about elimination of polling places in predominantly black neighborhoods, for people who don't have cars...

[caracarn]

and opposing your party's intent to disenfranchise voters and sabotage the election?

Listen, I understand you prefer the political positions that the Republican party and I don't fault you for that. Reasonable people can have differences in opinion about how things should be run. However, I defy any reasonable person to try to justify the blatant election fraud being perpetrated by Trump and DeJoy. I defy you to justify how you can support a political party that is using its power to destroy the foundations of our republic to stay in power.

To answer your question.  Yes.  Lifelong Republican (who did not vote for Trump last time) have gotten to the point that your last point makes and may never return to the party.  It is an embarrassment.

[LetItGrow]

We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

That may be the most classist thing I have ever read on this forum. And that’s saying something.

Not to mention the thousands of overseas soldiers and sailors who I guess will be able to tell their CO's "please fly me home to vote, thanks".

But really...boy, some people don't read that much about elimination of polling places in predominantly black neighborhoods, for people who don't have cars...

I was deployed for an election back in the nineties, and I can’t recall how we handled it. Strange.

So who is at fault for a polling place being eliminated? I think that is a fairly local thing? I readily admit not having a clue. Or does Trump himself personally go and take them down while the postmaster removes all the boxes in the area?

[bacchi]

We don't need the post office to have an election.   Anyone that wants to vote can find a way to make it happen.

That may be the most classist thing I have ever read on this forum. And that’s saying something.

Not to mention the thousands of overseas soldiers and sailors who I guess will be able to tell their CO's "please fly me home to vote, thanks".

But really...boy, some people don't read that much about elimination of polling places in predominantly black neighborhoods, for people who don't have cars...

I was deployed for an election back in the nineties, and I can’t recall how we handled it. Strange.

So who is at fault for a polling place being eliminated? I think that is a fairly local thing? I readily admit not having a clue. Or does Trump himself personally go and take them down while the postmaster removes all the boxes in the area?

Republican Governors.

Let's not forget history here. The GOP was, until 2018, limited by a nearly four decade federal deal to not intimidate voters in minority neighborhoods by using off-duty police officers as poll workers.

Re: the USPS, two District judges have determined mail handling is enough of a problem to force the USPS to treat ballots as first class or priority mail.

The above seems like a basic thing for a Democracy to do. Ya know, make sure ballots are counted.

[talltexan]

I'm a little concerned about this Atlantic piece that makes it sound like the Trump campaign is actively recruiting armed militias to intimidate voters at polls in urban areas.

So I've decided to go hard at trying to deprogram my republican friends on FB. Step 1: post a lot of youtube videos of country and Christian music. Step 2: post that I am a registered Republican (which is accurate) and that I'm committing to a respect of the peaceful and shenanigan-free transition of power if my side loses in Nov.

[Montecarlo]

many elderly and rural citizens don't have the internet and rely on the mail to send birthday cards to their grandkids.

I know this is only one small part of a larger discussion... but come on, why is the federal reserve supposed to expand their balance sheet to subsidize birthday card delivery?  Do we live in the same universe?

[ministashy]

Because it's in the Constitution?  Why is this so hard to understand?  Do you demand every other government service be revenue neutral?

[talltexan]

The USPS is in the Constitution, and the Federal Reserve Bank is not. We need both.

[Montecarlo]

Because it's in the Constitution?  Why is this so hard to understand?  Do you demand every other government service be revenue neutral?

Tell me if I'm wrong, but the Constitution empowers Congress to establish post offices, not requires?

I'm fine for deficit government programs.  Most (all?) of them are.  But... birthday cards???

[GuitarStv]

Because it's in the Constitution?  Why is this so hard to understand?  Do you demand every other government service be revenue neutral?

Tell me if I'm wrong, but the Constitution empowers Congress to establish post offices, not requires?

I'm fine for deficit government programs.  Most (all?) of them are.  But... birthday cards???

If only there was anything else that the post office did (like sending parcels and regular mail).  Or as has been mentioned, stuff like sending farmers live chicks . . . something that has gone on without a hitch for decades.  Until the restrictions made this year.

[Montecarlo]

Because it's in the Constitution?  Why is this so hard to understand?  Do you demand every other government service be revenue neutral?

Tell me if I'm wrong, but the Constitution empowers Congress to establish post offices, not requires?

I'm fine for deficit government programs.  Most (all?) of them are.  But... birthday cards???

If only there was anything else that the post office did (like sending parcels and regular mail).  Or as has been mentioned, stuff like sending farmers live chicks . . . something that has gone on without a hitch for decades.  Until the restrictions made this year.

You seem to be making the leap that opposing subsidized birthday cards = opposition to farmers getting live chicks.  But I could express discontent for the inhumane condition of many chicken farms and wondering why my government is subsidizing that, now that you mention it.

I just thought it was amusing that particular example was brought up.  Not everything has to be taken so seriously, jeesh. 

(In reality, I suspect that birthday cards are a net +margin on top of losing routes, and the post office doesn't lose extra money on each birthday card)

[RetiredAt63]

many elderly and rural citizens don't have the internet and rely on the mail to send birthday cards to their grandkids.

I know this is only one small part of a larger discussion... but come on, why is the federal reserve supposed to expand their balance sheet to subsidize birthday card delivery?  Do we live in the same universe?

They may also be getting their accessible parking permits in the mail.  That's how Service Ontario sends me mine.

Modern postal service sucks compared to earlier times.  Agatha Christie wrote plots around mail service in England, back when there was much better service.

[bacchi]

I'm a little concerned about this Atlantic piece that makes it sound like the Trump campaign is actively recruiting armed militias to intimidate voters at polls in urban areas.

Yeah, we may actually be looking at a coup in action. Maybe Gil Scott-Heron was wrong -- the revolution will be [streamed].

The Twentieth Amendment is crystal clear that the president’s term in office “shall end” at noon on January 20, but two men could show up to be sworn in. One of them would arrive with all the tools and power of the presidency already in hand.

So I've decided to go hard at trying to deprogram my republican friends on FB. Step 1: post a lot of youtube videos of country and Christian music. Step 2: post that I am a registered Republican (which is accurate) and that I'm committing to a respect of the peaceful and shenanigan-free transition of power if my side loses in Nov.

The reason Trump is floating these ideas is because enough people agree with him.

[ender]

I thought it was ironic we got a mailer, from the Republican party, encouraging us to register for an absentee ballot.

[terran]

I thought it was ironic we got a mailer, from the Republican party, encouraging us to register for an absentee ballot.

Haven't you heard, mail in voting is rife with fraud, absentee voting is totally fine? So sayeth the president. Don't tell him they're the same thing.

[talltexan]

My wife is an independent, so--with my Republican registration--it's very interesting to see how different the mail she gets is. Five separate applications for an absentee ballot sent to her. Scary-looking black and white images of Vice President Biden sent to me.