Author Topic: Smart people have no respect?  (Read 6470 times)

MoneyCat

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Smart people have no respect?
« on: July 08, 2015, 11:21:22 AM »
As a side hustle, I teach martial arts classes as a children's instructor at my local martial arts school.  I was talking with the Grandmaster about a particularly difficult student who refuses to follow instructions and the Grandmaster said that the child's problem is that he's exceptionally smart.  Because the child is so intelligent, he believes that he is superior to others and does not need to show respect to other people.

Do you think this observation is correct about intelligent people?  Do you think that might be what leads to some of the negative attitudes we see in various threads of this forum?

cdttmm

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 11:32:59 AM »
Wow, that's a really interesting explanation of a child's behavior. As a fellow martial arts instructor, I wouldn't accept that explanation for even a second. I teach Tae Kwon Do to high school students and I have observed that my most intelligent* students are also the ones who are best at following instructions and showing respect.

So to answer your question about smart people thinking they are superior to others and not needing to show respect to others, absolutely not. People who behave that way are people who either simply lack good manners or who aren't smart enough to know that they don't know everything and that every interaction is a potential learning opportunity.

Just my 2 cents.

*Of course, how we want to define intelligence is a whole other discussion.

jba302

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2015, 11:33:50 AM »
I know plenty of dumb people who are disrespectful, but I tend to notice disrespectful smart people are more adept at being condescending about it.

Specific to that child - I think the intelligent child's parents are letting him be a little shit because they aren't disciplining his shitty behavior. My sensei would have thrown him out of his program within the 2nd or 3rd refusal. If he doesn't want to learn, why bother?

chubbybunny

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2015, 11:37:05 AM »
I don't know if being disrespectful is a result of being smart, or more likely having parents tell him over and over again how much smarter he is than all the other kids. 

samustache

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2015, 11:38:47 AM »
Wow, that's a really interesting explanation of a child's behavior. As a fellow martial arts instructor, I wouldn't accept that explanation for even a second. I teach Tae Kwon Do to high school students and I have observed that my most intelligent* students are also the ones who are best at following instructions and showing respect.

I think you're confusing wisdom with intelligence. I know the difference from AD&D.

Bumbling Bee

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2015, 11:56:07 AM »
As a side hustle, I teach martial arts classes as a children's instructor at my local martial arts school.  I was talking with the Grandmaster about a particularly difficult student who refuses to follow instructions and the Grandmaster said that the child's problem is that he's exceptionally smart.  Because the child is so intelligent, he believes that he is superior to others and does not need to show respect to other people.

Do you think this observation is correct about intelligent people?  Do you think that might be what leads to some of the negative attitudes we see in various threads of this forum?

Well, yes and no. I think there are a lot of people in the world who think they are a lot smarter than they are (parents who tell them they are special snowflakes? Lack of perception about how vast and marvelous the universe is, and how insignificant we all are in the grand scheme of things?) and they tend to be the worst.

On the other hand, I think smart people can get really frustrated and angry with other people's stupidity, which can lead to a very bad attitude. My siblings, Spelling and Busy, are both incredibly intelligent - my sister was reading fluently by the time she was two and a half, and my brother taught himself trigonometry when he was in elementary school - and truly love learning. Both had a lot of problems in school because they encountered teachers who literally knew less than they did about certain topics, but were too proud and d-baggy to admit it, even about minor things. When my sister pointed out that Nathaniel Hawthorne was not the author of The Last Mohican, for instance, her high school history teacher kept her after class and told her, "Don't you dare ever correct me again!", to which she replied, "Well, then, don't say things that are wrong!" My brother once spent 20 minutes trying to explain oxidation to his chemistry teacher. (Yeah, they were two of the worst teachers in a pretty crappy public school.) Both did a lot better in college, and had far better attitudes to boot.

Chris22

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 11:59:48 AM »
I grew up a pretty smart guy, and I know I pissed a lot of people off when I was younger because I was so eager to demonstrate how smart I was.  After a while I learned that people don't like to be shown to be not smart, or to have other peoples' intelligence forced down their throats, and that lots of people liked me a lot more when I showed some humility.  And then as you make your way in the world, hopefully you end up falling into a peer group that's more equivalent (upper level classes in high school, challenging college, intelligent friends, work force with other talented people, etc) and find out you aren't the only smart person in the world and maybe you should have even more humility.  This kid is probably learning to strike that balance. 

TheOldestYoungMan

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sheepstache

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 12:16:54 PM »
I wouldn't surprise me if the issue in a martial arts class is that the kid is intellectually or book smart but that doesn't translate to physical prowess. He could either have false confidence from being told he's hot shit at the school stuff that so gets emphasized for so many hours of his day or he could be intensely frustrated because this doesn't come to him as easily as so many other things do.

Pigeon

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 01:42:36 PM »
I think that intelligence might make a kid question things more, but the explanation that in martial arts you can either show respect or you can find your own way to the door ought to satisfy one's curiosity.

Kaspian

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2015, 01:59:33 PM »
In an era where the most popular TV shows are things like "America's Got Talent", "Duck Dynasty", "Big Brother," "Real Housewives of ___", and (less recently) "Honey BooBoo," while everyone shops at "WalMart", drives SUVs and complains about debt, I think it's fairly easy for smart people to become bitter, jaded, and have contempt for the masses.  It's a battle.  Intelligence still isn't promoted as a virtue for a kid as much as cuteness or adeptness at sports.  Smart little kid be like, "Fuck 'em all--they're dumb."  It's not an illogical conclusion.  It takes awhile to learn traits like humility and humbleness.  I probably didn't begin incorporating those values until much later in life.

MoneyCat

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2015, 05:41:41 PM »
I think that intelligence might make a kid question things more, but the explanation that in martial arts you can either show respect or you can find your own way to the door ought to satisfy one's curiosity.

The Grandmaster doesn't want to "show them the door", because he needs the tuition money.  It's a business.  Lately, I've been resorting to shaming, because that tends to work rather well with kids.  Nothing malicious, just enough to knock them down a peg or two when they misbehave.  I'll also let the kid get kicked a few times to learn the consequences of not following instructions.

DecD

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2015, 05:44:39 PM »
I think it has more to do with individual personality and parenting.

"All X people are Y" rarely really works.

cdttmm

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2015, 07:47:28 PM »
Wow, that's a really interesting explanation of a child's behavior. As a fellow martial arts instructor, I wouldn't accept that explanation for even a second. I teach Tae Kwon Do to high school students and I have observed that my most intelligent* students are also the ones who are best at following instructions and showing respect.

I think you're confusing wisdom with intelligence. I know the difference from AD&D.

Nope. Definitely not confusing the two. But my post wasn't detailed enough that you could have known that. Here's some context. I teach these students as part of an alternative HS program. In addition to teaching them Tae Kwon Do, I also teach many of them psychology, personal finance, and apiculture. As a result, I have unique relationships with my students compared to most martial arts instructors. My most intelligent (again, a loaded term) students are also the ones who are best at following instructions and showing respect. They are also the students who exhibit the greatest self-awareness and emotion regulation.

A student who believes they are superior to others -- and does not show others respect as a result -- is actually a student who is specifically lacking (to some extent) in emotional intelligence.

But now we're getting into how we want to parse various psychological constructs.

Suffice it to say, MoneyCat's student lacks good manners, likely as a result of poor parenting to some extent. My first TKD instructor handled issues involving a lack of respect in a fairly heavy handed way. So I'm all in favor of MoneyCat's method of letting the student take a few kicks in order to emphasize the importance of following instructions when training.

okits

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2015, 10:01:27 PM »
A student who believes they are superior to others -- and does not show others respect as a result -- is actually a student who is specifically lacking (to some extent) in emotional intelligence.

Yup, I was this kid.  I wasn't disrespectful to adults but being smarter than most of the other kids (and an over-emphasis of the importance of that one trait) meant I was emotionally pretty dumb.  Not a good way to get along with others and not a smart way to live (try to be the dumbest person in the room so you will learn something and be better!)

I know plenty of dumb people who are disrespectful, but I tend to notice disrespectful smart people are more adept at being condescending about it.

HAW.  I think I've always tended a bit towards condescension.  I'm old enough now that I realize there are lots of people smarter/more talented/more able than me and I've acquired some humility (and an understanding that there's more to life than being smarter or "better" than other people.)  But I have little patience for people who won't get their shit together, and if I can't avoid them I have to keep my smugness and superiority under wraps.

Dicey

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2015, 10:42:39 AM »
Respect, humility and plain old common sense are on par with intelligence as far as important life skills. Smarts alone will not get one through life unscathed. Seems like there's a lesson to be taught and learned here.

The other problem with being "intelligent" is that there is always someone smarter than you are. I understand that it's a big problem in the Ivy League schools. Kids used to being the "best and the brightest" get into a college/uni filled with same and are in for a rude awakening as they discover that they are only "average" among peers. Best to learn adaptive skills long before they are needed.

dragoncar

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2018, 04:52:02 AM »
What do you mean by respect?  A smart kid knows respect is earned, not given simply because someone is older than you.  I’ll admit I was a little smartass but i pretty much had to be considering how stupid some adults are — adults who regularly use “because I said so” as justification for any request

If you are just talking about being polite i think smart kids are perfectly capable of that.

Davnasty

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2018, 06:43:22 AM »
What do you mean by respect?  A smart kid knows respect is earned, not given simply because someone is older than you.  I’ll admit I was a little smartass but i pretty much had to be considering how stupid some adults are — adults who regularly use “because I said so” as justification for any request

If you are just talking about being polite i think smart kids are perfectly capable of that.

It's interesting how some of us grow up to be so different than the children we were.

GuitarStv

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2018, 09:06:29 AM »
Respect in martial arts is fundamentally about listening to what your instructor is saying and being safe with your partner.

I've always had a preference for martial arts where full contact, hard sparring is done on a regular basis.  Boxing, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, etc., they all tend to solve respect problems in short order . . . simply because a good instructor will pair someone who's being a bit of a shit with a much more skilled opponent on a regular basis.  It becomes very clear that you need to listen to what the instructor is saying, and that if you don't treat your partner with respect, he will not treat you with respect.  Smart or dumb as a pile of bricks . . . when you're taking lumps/getting slammed over and over, you either straighten right out or quit.

frugalnacho

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2018, 01:57:02 PM »

maizefolk

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Re: Smart people have no respect?
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 03:11:59 PM »
My siblings, Spelling and Busy, are both incredibly intelligent - my sister was reading fluently by the time she was two and a half, and my brother taught himself trigonometry when he was in elementary school - and truly love learning. Both had a lot of problems in school because they encountered teachers who literally knew less than they did about certain topics, but were too proud and d-baggy to admit it, even about minor things. When my sister pointed out that Nathaniel Hawthorne was not the author of The Last Mohican, for instance, her high school history teacher kept her after class and told her, "Don't you dare ever correct me again!", to which she replied, "Well, then, don't say things that are wrong!" My brother once spent 20 minutes trying to explain oxidation to his chemistry teacher.

I can remember incidents from my own time in high school which match both of these stories almost exactly.

Being considerate of others we interact with as equals is something we generally owe everyone, or even if we don't owe, makes it easier to get along in life.

Respect for someone who has power over you, on the other hand, is something that can only be earned. Demanding respect from people who are under your control without proving you're worthy of respect doesn't go well at all.

Put a smart kid ... actually really any kid, in a position where an ignorant person (who isn't willing to admit they are ignorant and feels threatened when it becomes obvious) has power over them, and it is a recipe for problems.