Author Topic: Addiction (split from Girlfriend Difficulties)  (Read 12562 times)

frugalnacho

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Re: Re: Girlfriend difficulties - end it?
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2014, 01:52:32 PM »
Addict is and has operational defined by the researchers who work on this.  Why would you think someone who want to call themselves an addict if they were not one, though?    Honestly, I'm really having trouble understanding your POV. What benefit do you think someone being called an addict has that would make someone who does not have the addictive personality call themselves an addict?   

Are you even reading the same thread as me? None of the people I am talking about have been clinically diagnosed as addicts by any researchers.  The sole deciding factor is that they can't control their behavior.  That is it. 

Why would someone call themselves an addict if they weren't, and what benefit would they get? I don't know.  Apparently there is a lot about human psychology and the physiology of the brain I don't understand.  Maybe they would rather label it as a disease instead of taking responsibility for their own self destructive behavior?  Maybe not, i've already been lambasted for having the audacity to question their motives and their inner workings.

Like I said, i've read up on the subject, but i'm by no means an expert.  It's not my field of study, and i've never done research on it.  I understand that different people have different reactions to similar stimuli.  I don't understand if it's a qualitative difference, or just a quantitative difference (my understanding was that it is simply a matter of intensity - I get my pleasure center tickled in the same way, just not as much). 

Gin1984

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Re: Re: Girlfriend difficulties - end it?
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2014, 02:11:58 PM »
Addict is and has operational defined by the researchers who work on this.  Why would you think someone who want to call themselves an addict if they were not one, though?    Honestly, I'm really having trouble understanding your POV. What benefit do you think someone being called an addict has that would make someone who does not have the addictive personality call themselves an addict?   

Are you even reading the same thread as me? None of the people I am talking about have been clinically diagnosed as addicts by any researchers.  The sole deciding factor is that they can't control their behavior.  That is it. 

Why would someone call themselves an addict if they weren't, and what benefit would they get? I don't know.  Apparently there is a lot about human psychology and the physiology of the brain I don't understand.  Maybe they would rather label it as a disease instead of taking responsibility for their own self destructive behavior? Maybe not, i've already been lambasted for having the audacity to question their motives and their inner workings.

Like I said, i've read up on the subject, but i'm by no means an expert.  It's not my field of study, and i've never done research on it.  I understand that different people have different reactions to similar stimuli.  I don't understand if it's a qualitative difference, or just a quantitative difference (my understanding was that it is simply a matter of intensity - I get my pleasure center tickled in the same way, just not as much).
The people who defined this as a disease where the researchers/experts in this topic, not the addicts themselves.  You seem to be blaming a lot on the addicts without understand the subject.  And what do you mean "qualitative difference, or just a quantitative difference"?  Qualitative Data can be observed but not measured, quantitative can be measured so yes, the difference is quantitative.  Normally researchers like quantitative. 
How do you know what medical help ever addict you know has gotten?  And honestly I doubt you know who all the addicts are in your circle.

frugalnacho

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Re: Re: Girlfriend difficulties - end it?
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2014, 02:57:03 PM »
Addict is and has operational defined by the researchers who work on this.  Why would you think someone who want to call themselves an addict if they were not one, though?    Honestly, I'm really having trouble understanding your POV. What benefit do you think someone being called an addict has that would make someone who does not have the addictive personality call themselves an addict?   

Are you even reading the same thread as me? None of the people I am talking about have been clinically diagnosed as addicts by any researchers.  The sole deciding factor is that they can't control their behavior.  That is it. 

Why would someone call themselves an addict if they weren't, and what benefit would they get? I don't know.  Apparently there is a lot about human psychology and the physiology of the brain I don't understand.  Maybe they would rather label it as a disease instead of taking responsibility for their own self destructive behavior? Maybe not, i've already been lambasted for having the audacity to question their motives and their inner workings.

Like I said, i've read up on the subject, but i'm by no means an expert.  It's not my field of study, and i've never done research on it.  I understand that different people have different reactions to similar stimuli.  I don't understand if it's a qualitative difference, or just a quantitative difference (my understanding was that it is simply a matter of intensity - I get my pleasure center tickled in the same way, just not as much).
The people who defined this as a disease where the researchers/experts in this topic, not the addicts themselves.  You seem to be blaming a lot on the addicts without understand the subject.  And what do you mean "qualitative difference, or just a quantitative difference"?  Qualitative Data can be observed but not measured, quantitative can be measured so yes, the difference is quantitative.  Normally researchers like quantitative. 
How do you know what medical help ever addict you know has gotten?  And honestly I doubt you know who all the addicts are in your circle.

Qualitative, as in different.  As in does an addict release a different chemical, or react on a different circuit of the brain than the non addict does.  Not just a matter of intensity, but qualitatively different from the response of a non addict.  Or is it simply a matter of intensity?

I know some of them because they are family members.  I probably don't know who all the addicts in my life are, and some of the ones I know are addicts I don't have details for, but some of them I definitely have the details for and am close with.

I understand that the researchers/experts defined it as a disease, but they didn't diagnose the people I am talking about.   Addicts most certainly diagnose themselves as addicts all the time, which is the crux of this thread.  They can't control some behavior, therefore they are addicts.  The responses in this thread seem to confirm that.  If you have a compulsion and can't/don't control it, then you are an addict.  No brain scan or testing necessary, you are an addict by virtue of your inability (or lack of) stopping that behavior.  Everyone here seems pretty damn sure that every "addict" I know would have a stereotypical addict brain scan, and I would have a nuerotypical brain scan.  Maybe that is true, I don't know.

Cassie

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Re: Addiction (split from Girlfriend Difficulties)
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2014, 05:12:53 PM »
People go to a doctor or mental health professional & get diagnosed with alcoholism or drug addiction all the time.  There are screening tools that are  used to make the diagnosis & yes it is a series of questions that they ask the person.  I have never known anyone that lied about this so they could be diagnosed as having a problem.  In fact it is just the opposite of people not answering the questions truthfully sometimes so to indicate they do not have a problem.  Many people enter treatment when their lives become unmanageable or a family member persuades them too.  Some people need to hit bottom & some do not.  I agree with another poster that for whatever reason you lack empathy & should work on  not being so judgmental.  It might improve your social relationships with others.

frugalnacho

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Re: Addiction (split from Girlfriend Difficulties)
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2014, 06:36:15 PM »
Yes i'm aware of my lack of empathy.  I will work on that.  I think this thread's gone about as far as it needs to.

frugalnacho

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Re: Re: Girlfriend difficulties - end it?
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2014, 10:25:58 AM »
Well given that we could open their brains and compare their dopamine levels (and other hormone levels) when exposed to positive stimuli and their levels would different than a non-addict (which has been previously stated in this thread), yes they do have an addictive personality/"are an addict" prior to the drink.  There are biological differences between those type of people and non-addicts.  Why is that something you are ignoring?  Would it help if I got the research articles on it, and sent you the abstracts instead of trying to give you a summery from wiki?  What would help you understand that there is a physiological difference? 
I mean I assume you would not say it is bullshit for someone who has asthma to be more sensitive to pollution and need an inhaler as a result.  I mean you could just as easily say, well they should know the asthma would act up here so they should move to the country away from the pollution. 
Why is something wrong the brain any different than something wrong with another organ?  Is it just because the brain is less understood?

I've been thinking about this for the last week and it's been bothering me.  I've never known a single person with asthma that decided they had had enough of the disease and said they were done with having asthma and the symptoms of asthma and were quitting asthma cold turkey.  Some may have tried, but as far as I know that is not how diseases work, you can't just will them away.  Except for addiction.  I have known multiple people have done that with an addiction (to various substances).  No medicine, no medical intervention, just a strong desire to not be addicted anymore.  It was difficult for them, but they managed to do it. 

Were those people not true addicts? 

Gin1984

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Re: Re: Girlfriend difficulties - end it?
« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2014, 10:36:13 AM »
Well given that we could open their brains and compare their dopamine levels (and other hormone levels) when exposed to positive stimuli and their levels would different than a non-addict (which has been previously stated in this thread), yes they do have an addictive personality/"are an addict" prior to the drink.  There are biological differences between those type of people and non-addicts.  Why is that something you are ignoring?  Would it help if I got the research articles on it, and sent you the abstracts instead of trying to give you a summery from wiki?  What would help you understand that there is a physiological difference? 
I mean I assume you would not say it is bullshit for someone who has asthma to be more sensitive to pollution and need an inhaler as a result.  I mean you could just as easily say, well they should know the asthma would act up here so they should move to the country away from the pollution. 
Why is something wrong the brain any different than something wrong with another organ?  Is it just because the brain is less understood?

I've been thinking about this for the last week and it's been bothering me.  I've never known a single person with asthma that decided they had had enough of the disease and said they were done with having asthma and the symptoms of asthma and were quitting asthma cold turkey.  Some may have tried, but as far as I know that is not how diseases work, you can't just will them away.  Except for addiction.  I have known multiple people have done that with an addiction (to various substances).  No medicine, no medical intervention, just a strong desire to not be addicted anymore.  It was difficult for them, but they managed to do it. 

Were those people not true addicts?
Addiction is a response to the drug (and causes CPP) within the brain.  If you avoid the drug, you don't have the response, that does not mean you are not an addict.  Using your example of asthma, if you expose someone with asthma to smoke, you'll cause a problem, just because you did not expose them does not mean the asthma is not there. But asthma is a little harder to compare as well.  Why don't we use shingles?
The virus lives in you (if you had chicken pox), but if you don't get it stimulated, the virus stays inactive and you are not harmed.  But does not mean you don't have the virus.  Does that make sense? 
And side note, placebos work about 30% of the time, people do will away physical harm. 

Bob W

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Re: Addiction (split from Girlfriend Difficulties)
« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2014, 11:00:42 AM »
“Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol, morphine or idealism.”
― C.G. Jung