A Life Beyond 'Do What You Love'

[arebelspy]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/17/a-life-beyond-do-what-you-love/

Article on the fact that sometimes we must do what is necessary, or do what we're good at, or even do things we dislike, if they're the right thing to do.

Perhaps you relish running marathons. Perhaps you even think of your exercise regimen as a form of self-improvement. But if your “something higher” is, say, justice and equality, those ideals might behoove you to delegate some of the many hours spent pounding the track on tutoring kids at the youth center. Our desires should not be the ultimate arbiters of vocation. Sometimes we should do what we hate, or what most needs doing, and do it as best we can.

[LRS]

Great article. "Do what you love" has struck me as pretty suspect life advice ever since I first heard it, and not just for the reasons in the article, which are valid and well-expressed. I haven't been able to find anything that I love and that also makes me money, which I need to buy things like food and shelter. I suspect that there are many people who feel the same way and who don't like to talk about it because the do-what-you-love culture makes us feel like losers for not being paid a six-figure salary to spend half our days feeding orphans and the other half playing video games.

It's nice to see this long-overdue backlash.

[clifp]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/17/a-life-beyond-do-what-you-love/

Article on the fact that sometimes we must do what is necessary, or do what we're good at, or even do things we dislike, if they're the right thing to do.

Perhaps you relish running marathons. Perhaps you even think of your exercise regimen as a form of self-improvement. But if your “something higher” is, say, justice and equality, those ideals might behoove you to delegate some of the many hours spent pounding the track on tutoring kids at the youth center. Our desires should not be the ultimate arbiters of vocation. Sometimes we should do what we hate, or what most needs doing, and do it as best we can.

Three cheers. I loved the OpEd and the  article he talked about https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/01/in-the-name-of-love/ .   I think we do an immense disservice to young people to advise them to do what the love.  I do think life is too short to do a job that you despise  or spend more than a year or two working for a boss you hate.  But if working at job you tolerates allows you to make the money to do what you want outside of work, provides for you family, and lets you save for retirement that is good enough.

Elon Musk, gave a commencement speech at USC.  It was only 5 minutes long, and lacked all of the poetry of Steve Jobs  Stanford speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Qh-vwpYH8
 but it was a lot more practical..

1. Work really hard 100 hours a week is twice as good as merely 50!.
2. Surround yourself with smart people
3. Focus on the important stuff and ignore the noise.
4. Don't reason via analogy.
5. Take risk while you are young.

[ch12]

Great article. "Do what you love" has struck me as pretty suspect life advice ever since I first heard it, and not just for the reasons in the article, which are valid and well-expressed. I haven't been able to find anything that I love and that also makes me money, which I need to buy things like food and shelter. I suspect that there are many people who feel the same way and who don't like to talk about it because the do-what-you-love culture makes us feel like losers for not being paid a six-figure salary to spend half our days feeding orphans and the other half playing video games.

I feel the same way. The thing about spending half the day feeding orphans is that practically speaking, you'll probably be fundraising and licking envelopes for donations for money to feed the kids. Realistically, you don't contribute much to society when your purpose in life is to get money from other people, even for a good cause.

I know, because that's how I spent a decent portion of my childhood. I'm proud of the clean water sources that we set up and the food/education/shelter that I've helped provide for orphans - there are real benefits - but really you are just a moneygrubber. The money just isn't for you.

The other half of my day wouldn't be video games. It'd be reading, which is how I spend most of my offtime anyway.

[Russ]

Sometimes we should do what we hate, or what most needs doing, and do it as best we can.

[/quote]

then recognize that you are making the best decision for yourself that you can in that moment

so there's not much point being a grump about it

and you're back to doing what you love

the one thing these articles miss ATMO

[zataks]

Good article.  I especially like that bit about Mandela, Bonhoeffers, and King; finding fulfillment in being able to relate to something higher than oneself.  This is a challenge that I have been struggling with over the last couple years. 

[arebelspy]

then recognize that you are making the best decision for yourself that you can in that moment

so there's not much point being a grump about it

and you're back to doing what you love

the one thing these articles miss ATMO

I think you missed the point of the article.

No one is saying you should be a grump at all.  Just that sometimes you need to work that you may not love.

[Russ]

grump was a bit of an exaggeration. maybe I should read the whole thing though.

[happy]

One of the most helpful pieces on "do what you love" is this podcast http://financialmentor.com/podcast/follow-your-passion/11640

Its quite long, but for those who don't have time to listen the take- home is that "follow your passion" is not the best advice at all and causes undue misery and confusion. Instead:

-pick something you like or are interested in (doesn't have to be your passion that won't make money)
-get good at it - once you are good at something its more enjoyable ( e.g. the 10,000 hours)
-once you have a great reputation use that career capital to negotiate that into that which you will most enjoy e.g. work at home, or specialise in the area you like best, or work part time…whatever is really going to both use your skills and give you most satisfaction.

[grantmeaname]

grump was a bit of an exaggeration. maybe I should read the whole thing though.

No, I see what you're getting at. The article almost makes it sound like it's your duty to find something you dislike doing that contributes to something you value, just because.

If you really feel that inequality is bad, that tutoring disadvantaged kids helps to alleviate it, and that you're good enough at tutoring that your personal volunteering does a meaningful amount to mitigate inequality, then why wouldn't you be pleased/satisfied by spending some of your time tutoring? That's you putting your values into action and making the world a little more like your ideal world, so there's potential for you to get satisfaction/happiness/whatever out of it.

[grantmeaname]

One of the most helpful pieces on "do what you love" is this podcast http://financialmentor.com/podcast/follow-your-passion/11640

Its quite long, but for those who don't have time to listen the take- home is that "follow your passion" is not the best advice at all and causes undue misery and confusion. Instead:

-pick something you like or are interested in (doesn't have to be your passion that won't make money)
-get good at it - once you are good at something its more enjoyable ( e.g. the 10,000 hours)
-once you have a great reputation use that career capital to negotiate that into that which you will most enjoy e.g. work at home, or specialise in the area you like best, or work part time…whatever is really going to both use your skills and give you most satisfaction.

I was just thinking "this sounds like Cal Newport's passion trap, and then I went to click on the link and, sure enough, it's Cal Newport being interviewed! We've discussed him before, and he's definitely among the top 5 bloggers I've discovered through the MMM forums.

[happy]

Yes sorry I should have identified him in my post.

[grantmeaname]

No, that wasn't meant as a criticism! I'm just a huge fan of his so I was pleasantly surprised to see you were linking to a podcast with him in it.

[happy]

Not taken as a criticism, but I should have referenced him.
I thought it was great and made a lot of sense, although I haven't continued following his work.

[arebelspy]

grump was a bit of an exaggeration. maybe I should read the whole thing though.

No, I see what you're getting at. The article almost makes it sound like it's your duty to find something you dislike doing that contributes to something you value, just because.

I didn't personally read it that way, just that sometimes that (work you don't love) may be necessary, and that's okay.

But I can see how it could be interpreted that way.

Because I've always done stuff I loved, and I'll be FIRE shortly, this article spoke to me to remind me that I may need to do some work that I may not love, because it's the right thing to do (according to my moral compass).  It's something I've already been struggling with, so that's probably why.

[FunkyStickman]

Discontentment is very real, and our society loves to point out how unhappy we should be with what we already have... jobs included.

[gooki]

It's also worth being aware that trying to turn your passion into a career can lead to burn out, and you end up no longer loving what you were once passionate about.

I'd rather get burnt out doing something I'm happy to leave behind, and always have my passions available on the side.

Or better yet, get to the point of FI, so commercial success of following my passion is not a requirement to my well being.

[Basenji]

Thanks Grant for the links to Cal Newport!

WRT the NYT article, the thing that jumps out at me is the "passions" of young adults can be quite unformed/nebulous. Hell, you don't even know what you don't know. You FEEL like an adult, but looking back you see how much life experience you lacked. You won't be able to really know who you "are" and what you want until you try out things and develop as a person. And to try out the world you need to jump in, be willing to do the work, and get past the drudgery to become more skilled. Yeah, pick a path that seems appealing at the time but then jump in hard. I guess I agree that it helps if a person has internalized a "hard work" ideal with a moral component. I can't imagine not feeling pride in a job well done and only looking for the passion "fix." That would be a tough path to travel.

[Jamesqf]

It's also worth being aware that trying to turn your passion into a career can lead to burn out, and you end up no longer loving what you were once passionate about.

The flip side of this, and the reason I've always been really dubious about the "follow your passion" thing, is what do you do if you're not really 'passionate' about anything?  I mean there's a whole world out there, full of a lot of interesting things.  Some of them I do, as time & opportunity permit.  A few of those I could even make a decent living doing (as in fact I do with programming).  I enjoy them, but I'm not passionate about any one of them, certainly not to the exclusion of everything else.

[clifp]

It's also worth being aware that trying to turn your passion into a career can lead to burn out, and you end up no longer loving what you were once passionate about.

I'd rather get burnt out doing something I'm happy to leave behind, and always have my passions available on the side.

Or better yet, get to the point of FI, so commercial success of following my passion is not a requirement to my well being.

That makes a lot of sense. My dad alternated between tolerating and loathing his job as Pharmaceutical rep/salesman.  His passion was wood working, which culminated in him building an awarding winning wooden Italian light plane.  I often suggested both before and after his early retirement that  he build furniture such as living and resisted explaining that might risk ruining the enjoyment of  his hobby.

I've only understood his reluctance recently.

[Gray Matter]

It's also worth being aware that trying to turn your passion into a career can lead to burn out, and you end up no longer loving what you were once passionate about.

I'd rather get burnt out doing something I'm happy to leave behind, and always have my passions available on the side.

Or better yet, get to the point of FI, so commercial success of following my passion is not a requirement to my well being.

I agree.  I've always been a little perplexed by the advice to "follow your bliss."  The best way to ruin something I love is to have to do it to please other people instead of myself.

[FunkyStickman]

I recently ran across an article that quoted a graduation speech by Bill Watterson, who is famous (besides cartooning) for refusing to merchandise his characters for any amount of money. He could have been a multi-multi-millionaire with merchandise, but he refused. I think one of the more interesting parts of his speech was this:

Creating a life that reflects your values and satisfies your soul is a rare achievement. In a culture that relentlessly promotes avarice and excess as the good life, a person happy doing his own work is usually considered an eccentric, if not a subversive. Ambition is only understood if it’s to rise to the top of some imaginary ladder of success. Someone who takes an undemanding job because it affords him the time to pursue other interests and activities is considered a flake. A person who abandons a career in order to stay home and raise children is considered not to be living up to his potential — as if a job title and salary are the sole measure of human worth.

You’ll be told in a hundred ways, some subtle and some not, to keep climbing, and never be satisfied with where you are, who you are, and what you’re doing. There are a million ways to sell yourself out, and I guarantee you’ll hear about them.

To invent your own life’s meaning is not easy, but it’s still allowed, and I think you’ll be happier for the trouble.

There's something to be said for it... but he worked doing the strip on his own for 5 years before it took off. And when it finally did, he focused on drawing the strip only, nothing else.

[MoneyCat]

I think it's really important to figure out what you really love to do...  and then do that on nights and weekends for the rest of your life while you aren't doing the work that earns you a living.

[Jamesqf]

Suppose, though, that there is no one thing you really love to do?  Indeed, why should there be?  Aren't there plenty of sayings along the lines of "Variety is the spice of life"?

[golden1]

I have always considered myself more of a generalist.  So the idea of "follow your passion" never resonated with me personally.  It also seems to be a very privileged and impractical thing to say.  I am happy for people who find something they love to do, and get to do it and make a living,  but in this world as it currently exists, most people have to do things they don't feel a driving passion for in order to put food on the table.  In fact, many of these people that do the passionate jobs are dependant on hordes of people who are just doing what they have to do to survive.  This may change in the future as more and more physical labor and menial tasks get mechanized, but currently, it doesn't work for most people.

I'd rather get burnt out doing something I'm happy to leave behind, and always have my passions available on the side.

I totally agree with this. 

[greaper007]

It's also worth being aware that trying to turn your passion into a career can lead to burn out, and you end up no longer loving what you were once passionate about.

I'd rather get burnt out doing something I'm happy to leave behind, and always have my passions available on the side.

Or better yet, get to the point of FI, so commercial success of following my passion is not a requirement to my well being.

This

I watched countless previously successful people become airline pilots because they loved to fly.   Management knew people would just about fly airplanes for free, and treated us accordingly.    These people took a hobby they used to enjoy doing a couple times a month and turned it into something they loathed.     I've never been on a job where people were less happy than when I worked at an airline.    Sure visual approaches are fun, but the don't make up for spending the night in Charleston WV on your kid's birthday.

Find what you're good at and figure out a way to make money with it.     My wife has a PhD in clinical child psychology, not exactly a high paying field.    But, she found out she likes data and can really explain things to people in positions of power.    Now she owns her own consulting business and works with a list charities.   No need to publish, it doesn't matter if she can't get a university job where we want to live, and she makes north of 100k.    Something most tenured professors wouldn't get for decades.

[brewer12345]

It's also worth being aware that trying to turn your passion into a career can lead to burn out, and you end up no longer loving what you were once passionate about.

I'd rather get burnt out doing something I'm happy to leave behind, and always have my passions available on the side.

Or better yet, get to the point of FI, so commercial success of following my passion is not a requirement to my well being.

That makes a lot of sense. My dad alternated between tolerating and loathing his job as Pharmaceutical rep/salesman.  His passion was wood working, which culminated in him building an awarding winning wooden Italian light plane.  I often suggested both before and after his early retirement that  he build furniture such as living and resisted explaining that might risk ruining the enjoyment of  his hobby.

I've only understood his reluctance recently.

Absolutely.  In the 20+ years I have been brewing I have had countless people suggest I go pro.  No thanks.  When you HAVE to do it every day, it quickly ceases to be fun.