NEW 2 year on off relationship - starts Pg 21. Issues with trust/attachment.

[LadyMuMu]

You might also say that if two people REALLY loved each other enough, they'd let each other go and pursue their dreams. I think two weeks is chump change. Go for six months of no contact and see where you stand.

[zoochadookdook]

You might also say that if two people REALLY loved each other enough, they'd let each other go and pursue their dreams. I think two weeks is chump change. Go for six months of no contact and see where you stand.

 


Yeah 2 weeks is......idk. it's something. Sorry I'm just feeling all kinds of things right now.

[Villanelle]

OP, your posts make me think of a book called "I Don't Know What I Want But I Know It's Not This."

Here's the amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Know-What-Step-Step/dp/0143128515

The book is actually about jobs/careers, but I have to wonder if there may be some helpful information in it if you think about it in the context of a relationship. You work at a university? Maybe your library has a copy.

It sounds silly like even to me. How can I not know what I want in life? I'm 26-27 in may. I should have an inkling of what career I'd like to pursue in the future, if having a family/marraige is a must have or a definitely not/a billion other things but I just really don't know.

When I was 25, I had no idea what I wanted.  I wasn't against marriage, but unlike every one of my friends, it wasn't something I actively wanted.  I had no real feelings about it at all.  It wasn't until I started dating the person who would become my husband that I suddenly wanted to be married.  I never wanted to be married until I wanted to be married *to him*.

OTOH, it seems like your girlfriend is just the opposite.  She is Absolutely certain that she wants to get married.  That is entirely separate from and has nothing to do with you.  You are just "insert guy into tuxedo at the altar".  That's why she's clinging so desperately to all this. She's desperate to marry and to marry NOW, and the most likely candidate for that is you.  And so great is her desperation that she doesn't differentiate between the most likely candidate and the BEST candidate. 

I think this 2 weeks is just drawing out the inevitable.  When you finally decide to fully break it off, she is quite likely going to try everything.  It's going to suck.  You just need to have a script and stick to it.  Don't let her pull you off message.  Don't engage.  When she says that if you love her you'd try harder,  don't engage because nothing good will come of it, there is no right answer, and it just prolongs.  Stick to your vague message about how it just isn't working for you any more.  After a handful of repetitions, just say that you really don't think anything productive is going to come from this, and excuse yourself, and leave. 

[sol]

I think this 2 weeks is just drawing out the inevitable. 

Not only is it a) delaying the inevitable, it's also b) making it so very much harder to separate when the time comes, and it's c) stealing away life from both of them that they could be using to heal and then move on to healthy relationships.

Seriously, this two week plan is the second shittiest thing you could possibly do.  The shittiest thing would be agreeing to stay together.

[zoochadookdook]

Look guys.

Sorry if I'm not doing the "right" thing. I'm learning as I go. I'm at my friends tonight and will see her tomorrow when pack. Between now and then I will try to sort my thoughts and emotions. It hurts. She says the balls in my court and I need to decide if I want her in the future etcetc.

[pbkmaine]

Good luck, zoo. I know it’s hard.

[partgypsy]

So we're taking a 2 week break. I'm staying at my buddies house for a week. She's staying at her dad's the next. That was so we can see how we are apart. She made it hard. Told me I need to figure out what I want and that if two people love enough they can make it work.  She feels like we didn't even try going on dates etc to retain intamacy and instead just tore ourselves to shreds in counseling. Idk I feel like trash and driving to my buddies need to really reflect on how I feel. I already feel the "we could make this work pang".

dates? Didn't u just go on an expensive cruise?don't tell me you never went on dates the past 5-7 years. She is not being reasonable, and she's trying to guilt you into staying.

[DeepEllumStache]

Use this two weeks to focus on yourself. Work out regularly, eat healthy, go to bed early and get good sleep. You won't have the answers but you can do the best things possible for you.

[Kris]

Sigh.

She is bullying you.

I know why. She wants you to shove your feelings way deep down so that you will just ignore them. Because she knows that’s the only way she gets what she wants. 

I’m sure she’s scared. That’s why she’s acting like this. But she is banking that you feeling like trash will be what makes you come back and drop all your concerns, and just get married and be done with it all.

I think a few months would be better.

[marble_faun]

@zoochadookdook :

This sounds like a step in the right direction.  It will be strange to be live separately for the first time in years, but this is a chance to live in your own thoughts and sort out your own goals and desires.

I would suggest extremely minimal (if any) contact with your girlfriend during the two weeks, just so you have the time and space to contemplate the future without another voice in your head.

If you do decide to break up, there's no way it won't be painful, so I understand the need to move slowly and deliberately.  Ultimately we are random people from the internet with no personal stake in the relationship, so it's been easy for us to recommend breaking up. But I know a situation like this can be profoundly shattering in the moment even if it all works out for the best in the end.

Good luck to you. 

[former player]

 

So we're taking a 2 week break. I'm staying at my buddies house for a week. She's staying at her dad's the next. That was so we can see how we are apart.

You've done the "lets break up for a week" thing before, and ended up going back to each other.  I have no doubt that your roommate (after reading your post I don't think I can any longer call her your "friend") thinks that this will end up the same way.

She made it hard

Your roommate is making it hard for you because she is prioritising her wants (marriage and kids) over your happiness.
 

Told me I need to figure out what I want

You already know what you want: you want a loving, erotic, sexual relationship with your life partner.  By saying "you need to figure out what you want" your roommate is disrespecting what you have being saying to her for weeks, and trying to create the opportunity for you to change your mind.

Have you come across the term "gaslighting"?  There's a good explanation of it here - https://www.thehotline.org/what-is-gaslighting/  Some at least of what it sets out fits how your roommate behaves towards you.  Telling you that you need to figure out what you want when you have already made it abundantly clear, including in counselling, what you want, is gaslighting.

if two people love enough they can make it work.

You have a friendship love, and however much you love each other as friends that is fundamentally different from loving each other as erotic, sexual partners for life.

She feels like we didn't even try going on dates etc to retain int[i ]macy and instead just tore ourselves to shreds in counseling. 

partgypsy is right: you have just been on a holiday cruise together.  If seven days and nights away on holiday didn't reset your relationship into a sexual one, evenings out together aren't going to do it.  And I don't get any sense that you "tore yourselves to shreds" in counselling: is that how you have seen it?  I think your roommate is disrespecting the counselling you have done together because it hasn't got her what she wants. See "gaslighting" again.

Idk I feel like trash

You are not trash.  You are a good man who is working hard at finding his way in life.  If you feel like trash it is because you were made to feel that way by someone else.  And someone who makes you "feel like trash" is not someone it is good and healthy to have in your life.

driving to my buddies need to really reflect on how I feel.

You already know how you feel: it is your roommate who is working hard to divert you away from the way you feel.  See "gaslighting" again.

I already feel the "we could make this work pang".

Yeah, that's what your roommate is counting on: she's kicked you out of the home you bought and paid for to spend an uncomfortable week on a buddy's couch/spare bed, no doubt in the hope that you will be so pleased to get home at the end of the week that you won't mind that she is still there (and I bet if you give her any opportunity to still be there and not move out to her dad's she will take it).

I'm sorry that this is hard.  Your post makes it clear that your roommate is clinging far too hard to the wreckage of a failed relationship, and in order to do so is behaving towards you in ways that are actively harmful to both of you.  I hope you can find the strength to follow through on what you know to be right for both of you, and end any relationship with this person once and for all.

[Hula Hoop]

This is definitely a step in the right direction but as others have said just prolongs the inevitable.  As others have said she is bullying/gaslighting you by not acknowledging that you know your own feelings and have communicated them. I had an ex boyfriend do this to me many years ago.  He was desperate to get married/make the relationship work and I wanted to break up.  When I said "I want to break up for X and Y reason" his reply was "no".  I was only 22 so I let him get away with this for a while and it was horrible.  Now I'm in my 40s and I can see how disrespectful this was.  Of course he was hurt but that's just life.  He should have accepted what I said and left me alone.  BTW my ex in now happily married to someone who loves him back and they have a kid and a house and all the things he wanted.

The only way to do this is to just not engage/draw decent boundaries.  Tell her that you want to break up as this is not working for you.  Have her move out and then don't see her for at least several months.  If she needs to come by to collect something that's at your house, have a friend or relative let her in.  Sounds harsh but having been through many breakups in my time, this is the way to do it.

[iris lily]

After clearly communicating that you are leaving the relationship, you —leave the relationship. You do that by your actions not your words.

Trying to convince your SO that you need to break up is weak and immature. SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU. Adults who are successful at adulting know how to set and keep boundaries.. They do not expect other people to always agree with them and honor their boundaries. It takes strength and determination to carry out personal boundaries.

Learning to set and keep boundaries will aid you so much in your next relationship! Really!

Oh, and  the idea that if you love each other you can make anything work is just silly pablum. It’s just a different restating of the idea that all you need is love to make a relationship work, which is bullshit.

[zoochadookdook]

OP, your posts make me think of a book called "I Don't Know What I Want But I Know It's Not This."

Here's the amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Know-What-Step-Step/dp/0143128515

The book is actually about jobs/careers, but I have to wonder if there may be some helpful information in it if you think about it in the context of a relationship. You work at a university? Maybe your library has a copy.

It sounds silly like even to me. How can I not know what I want in life? I'm 26-27 in may. I should have an inkling of what career I'd like to pursue in the future, if having a family/marraige is a must have or a definitely not/a billion other things but I just really don't know.

When I was 25, I had no idea what I wanted.  I wasn't against marriage, but unlike every one of my friends, it wasn't something I actively wanted.  I had no real feelings about it at all.  It wasn't until I started dating the person who would become my husband that I suddenly wanted to be married.  I never wanted to be married until I wanted to be married *to him*.

OTOH, it seems like your girlfriend is just the opposite.  She is Absolutely certain that she wants to get married.  That is entirely separate from and has nothing to do with you.  You are just "insert guy into tuxedo at the altar".  That's why she's clinging so desperately to all this. She's desperate to marry and to marry NOW, and the most likely candidate for that is you.  And so great is her desperation that she doesn't differentiate between the most likely candidate and the BEST candidate. 

I think this 2 weeks is just drawing out the inevitable.  When you finally decide to fully break it off, she is quite likely going to try everything.  It's going to suck.  You just need to have a script and stick to it.  Don't let her pull you off message.  Don't engage.  When she says that if you love her you'd try harder,  don't engage because nothing good will come of it, there is no right answer, and it just prolongs.  Stick to your vague message about how it just isn't working for you any more.  After a handful of repetitions, just say that you really don't think anything productive is going to come from this, and excuse yourself, and leave.

She's actually told me she doesn't need to get married right away. The main focus is if i see a future/want to work towards one with her. She stated that she was open to a long engagement prior and just at this point we should know if we want to be together for the long haul.

She's not infatuated with the idea of marraige, but it's a important part of a future together. That's the loaded question. Do I want her in my future? YES. Do I want our relationship to be the way it is and can I get engaged or married prior to it undergoing changes? NO.

[Metalcat]

OP, your posts make me think of a book called "I Don't Know What I Want But I Know It's Not This."

Here's the amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Know-What-Step-Step/dp/0143128515

The book is actually about jobs/careers, but I have to wonder if there may be some helpful information in it if you think about it in the context of a relationship. You work at a university? Maybe your library has a copy.

It sounds silly like even to me. How can I not know what I want in life? I'm 26-27 in may. I should have an inkling of what career I'd like to pursue in the future, if having a family/marraige is a must have or a definitely not/a billion other things but I just really don't know.

When I was 25, I had no idea what I wanted.  I wasn't against marriage, but unlike every one of my friends, it wasn't something I actively wanted.  I had no real feelings about it at all.  It wasn't until I started dating the person who would become my husband that I suddenly wanted to be married.  I never wanted to be married until I wanted to be married *to him*.

OTOH, it seems like your girlfriend is just the opposite.  She is Absolutely certain that she wants to get married.  That is entirely separate from and has nothing to do with you.  You are just "insert guy into tuxedo at the altar".  That's why she's clinging so desperately to all this. She's desperate to marry and to marry NOW, and the most likely candidate for that is you.  And so great is her desperation that she doesn't differentiate between the most likely candidate and the BEST candidate. 

I think this 2 weeks is just drawing out the inevitable.  When you finally decide to fully break it off, she is quite likely going to try everything.  It's going to suck.  You just need to have a script and stick to it.  Don't let her pull you off message.  Don't engage.  When she says that if you love her you'd try harder,  don't engage because nothing good will come of it, there is no right answer, and it just prolongs.  Stick to your vague message about how it just isn't working for you any more.  After a handful of repetitions, just say that you really don't think anything productive is going to come from this, and excuse yourself, and leave.

She's actually told me she doesn't need to get married right away. The main focus is if i see a future/want to work towards one with her. She stated that she was open to a long engagement prior and just at this point we should know if we want to be together for the long haul.

She's not infatuated with the idea of marraige, but it's a important part of a future together. That's the loaded question. Do I want her in my future? YES. Do I want our relationship to be the way it is and can I get engaged or married prior to it undergoing changes? NO.

Because her focus is on the outcome of being reassured that you want to marry her, not on actually being married to you.

This is not her being reasonable, this is her fishing for exactly what she's wanted all along: you to say what she wants you to say because she thinks it will make her feel more secure.

Which is nonsense.

[zoochadookdook]

So we're taking a 2 week break. I'm staying at my buddies house for a week. She's staying at her dad's the next. That was so we can see how we are apart. She made it hard. Told me I need to figure out what I want and that if two people love enough they can make it work.  She feels like we didn't even try going on dates etc to retain intamacy and instead just tore ourselves to shreds in counseling. Idk I feel like trash and driving to my buddies need to really reflect on how I feel. I already feel the "we could make this work pang".

dates? Didn't u just go on an expensive cruise?don't tell me you never went on dates the past 5-7 years. She is not being reasonable, and she's trying to guilt you into staying.

I guess she meant to the context of dating with purpose. We would go out every now and then but yeah. The cruise she definitly was sad on when I told her I wasn't going to ask her to get engaged beforehand but we went and had a good time regardless.

[zoochadookdook]

OP, your posts make me think of a book called "I Don't Know What I Want But I Know It's Not This."

Here's the amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Know-What-Step-Step/dp/0143128515

The book is actually about jobs/careers, but I have to wonder if there may be some helpful information in it if you think about it in the context of a relationship. You work at a university? Maybe your library has a copy.

It sounds silly like even to me. How can I not know what I want in life? I'm 26-27 in may. I should have an inkling of what career I'd like to pursue in the future, if having a family/marraige is a must have or a definitely not/a billion other things but I just really don't know.

When I was 25, I had no idea what I wanted.  I wasn't against marriage, but unlike every one of my friends, it wasn't something I actively wanted.  I had no real feelings about it at all.  It wasn't until I started dating the person who would become my husband that I suddenly wanted to be married.  I never wanted to be married until I wanted to be married *to him*.

OTOH, it seems like your girlfriend is just the opposite.  She is Absolutely certain that she wants to get married.  That is entirely separate from and has nothing to do with you.  You are just "insert guy into tuxedo at the altar".  That's why she's clinging so desperately to all this. She's desperate to marry and to marry NOW, and the most likely candidate for that is you.  And so great is her desperation that she doesn't differentiate between the most likely candidate and the BEST candidate. 

I think this 2 weeks is just drawing out the inevitable.  When you finally decide to fully break it off, she is quite likely going to try everything.  It's going to suck.  You just need to have a script and stick to it.  Don't let her pull you off message.  Don't engage.  When she says that if you love her you'd try harder,  don't engage because nothing good will come of it, there is no right answer, and it just prolongs.  Stick to your vague message about how it just isn't working for you any more.  After a handful of repetitions, just say that you really don't think anything productive is going to come from this, and excuse yourself, and leave.

She's actually told me she doesn't need to get married right away. The main focus is if i see a future/want to work towards one with her. She stated that she was open to a long engagement prior and just at this point we should know if we want to be together for the long haul.

She's not infatuated with the idea of marraige, but it's a important part of a future together. That's the loaded question. Do I want her in my future? YES. Do I want our relationship to be the way it is and can I get engaged or married prior to it undergoing changes? NO.

Because her focus is on the outcome of being reassured that you want to marry her, not on actually being married to you.

This is not her being reasonable, this is her fishing for exactly what she's wanted all along: you to say what she wants you to say because she thinks it will make her feel more secure.

Which is nonsense.

I guess I can see it from that standpoint; but I do understand why. Like she feels pressure to open up and create intamacy so I will pursue that future-but she doesn't want to open that vulnerability unless I am looking to pursue that. I honestly want a future with her and have wanted one-but i can't commit to one without changing our relationship lol. It's literally a neverending circle.

[zoochadookdook]

I guess the problem is that I dont 100% want to break up. I just don't see how to fix things without turning it into adrawn out stand off of how we both feel

[Kris]

I guess the problem is that I dont 100% want to break up. I just don't see how to fix things without turning it into adrawn out stand off of how we both feel

What percent do you want to break up?

[Metalcat]

OP, your posts make me think of a book called "I Don't Know What I Want But I Know It's Not This."

Here's the amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Know-What-Step-Step/dp/0143128515

The book is actually about jobs/careers, but I have to wonder if there may be some helpful information in it if you think about it in the context of a relationship. You work at a university? Maybe your library has a copy.

It sounds silly like even to me. How can I not know what I want in life? I'm 26-27 in may. I should have an inkling of what career I'd like to pursue in the future, if having a family/marraige is a must have or a definitely not/a billion other things but I just really don't know.

When I was 25, I had no idea what I wanted.  I wasn't against marriage, but unlike every one of my friends, it wasn't something I actively wanted.  I had no real feelings about it at all.  It wasn't until I started dating the person who would become my husband that I suddenly wanted to be married.  I never wanted to be married until I wanted to be married *to him*.

OTOH, it seems like your girlfriend is just the opposite.  She is Absolutely certain that she wants to get married.  That is entirely separate from and has nothing to do with you.  You are just "insert guy into tuxedo at the altar".  That's why she's clinging so desperately to all this. She's desperate to marry and to marry NOW, and the most likely candidate for that is you.  And so great is her desperation that she doesn't differentiate between the most likely candidate and the BEST candidate. 

I think this 2 weeks is just drawing out the inevitable.  When you finally decide to fully break it off, she is quite likely going to try everything.  It's going to suck.  You just need to have a script and stick to it.  Don't let her pull you off message.  Don't engage.  When she says that if you love her you'd try harder,  don't engage because nothing good will come of it, there is no right answer, and it just prolongs.  Stick to your vague message about how it just isn't working for you any more.  After a handful of repetitions, just say that you really don't think anything productive is going to come from this, and excuse yourself, and leave.

She's actually told me she doesn't need to get married right away. The main focus is if i see a future/want to work towards one with her. She stated that she was open to a long engagement prior and just at this point we should know if we want to be together for the long haul.

She's not infatuated with the idea of marraige, but it's a important part of a future together. That's the loaded question. Do I want her in my future? YES. Do I want our relationship to be the way it is and can I get engaged or married prior to it undergoing changes? NO.

Because her focus is on the outcome of being reassured that you want to marry her, not on actually being married to you.

This is not her being reasonable, this is her fishing for exactly what she's wanted all along: you to say what she wants you to say because she thinks it will make her feel more secure.

Which is nonsense.

I guess I can see it from that standpoint; but I do understand why. Like she feels pressure to open up and create intamacy so I will pursue that future-but she doesn't want to open that vulnerability unless I am looking to pursue that. I honestly want a future with her and have wanted one-but i can't commit to one without changing our relationship lol. It's literally a neverending circle.

Everyone and their grandmother knows that you understand her side and where she's coming from. It seems to be the main thing you have focused on all along.

You have very little insight or perspective on your own experience/wants/needs/opinions/drives/cares/fears/challenges/hopes/etc but 90% of your posts have been you understanding and defending her position.

You get how fucked that is, right?

[zoochadookdook]

I guess the problem is that I dont 100% want to break up. I just don't see how to fix things without turning it into adrawn out stand off of how we both feel

What percent do you want to break up?

It's a solid 50 50. I'm not not commited to her. I am not commited to the idea of marriage or have felt like I wanted kids yet. I think of her as a person and know shed be a great mother/ life partner but if she is demi sexual and cant explore or develope intamacy without having a lifelong commitment I dont know how I feel about that.

[Kris]

I guess the problem is that I dont 100% want to break up. I just don't see how to fix things without turning it into adrawn out stand off of how we both feel

What percent do you want to break up?

It's a solid 50 50. I'm not not commited to her. I am not commited to the idea of marriage or have felt like I wanted kids yet. I think of her as a person and know shed be a great mother/ life partner but if she is demi sexual and cant explore or develope intamacy without having a lifelong commitment I dont know how I feel about that.

Honestly, I think that’s your answer.

A relationship where one person is only 50 50 in it... well, it’s kind of already over.

And... if I were in a relationship with someone who was only 50%, I couldn’t be happy. The relationship would make me miserable, and insecure, and sad, and helpless, and on edge.

She wants you to be 100%. But you aren’t. You want her to be something she isn’t, too.

This isn’t right. I know it sucks that 50% of her/the relationship is something you want. But you have to know that there’s someone out there for you that you’ll feel 100% about, right?

[zoochadookdook]

I feel 100% about her as a person.

Just not the no sex (shallow) or readiness to marry.

Went home today to get clothes and we got back into it. She doesnt see how I wont even try and how people in long term relationships make effort/try to keep eachother. All we've done is go to a few consoling sessions and argue. Shes made it clear what she wants and I need to decide.

[Metalcat]

I feel 100% about her as a person.

Just not the no sex (shallow) or readiness to marry.

Went home today to get clothes and we got back into it. She doesnt see how I wont even try and how people in long term relationships make effort/try to keep eachother. All we've done is go to a few consoling sessions and argue. Shes made it clear what she wants and I need to decide.

Then decide.

This is a legitimate demand on her part. You've had 7 years, you are either certain or you aren't.

The rest of what she is saying is manipulative, emotionally absurd nonsense out of desperation because she feels she is losing ground, so she's trying to call your bluff, but the part about you having to decide is totally reasonable.

You have more than enough information to be able to decide if you are ready to marry her.

You aren't.
Move on.

ETA: Just know that she won't make this easy for you. She'll say whatever she needs to say to make this incredibly emotionally difficult for you because she is terrified.

The right answer of leaving isn't going to feel right. So don't expect it to.

[Cassie]

Leaving is really tough and some people stay together because no one has the balls to leave. I find that really sad.  Yes if you are in a long marriage it can be work at times but not all the time.  If you are ever able to let go later you will be mad at yourself for staying too long. If she was serious about sex the cruise was the perfect setting.

[zoochadookdook]

Leaving is really tough and some people stay together because no one has the balls to leave. I find that really sad.  Yes if you are in a long marriage it can be work at times but not all the time.  If you are ever able to let go later you will be mad at yourself for staying too long. If she was serious about sex the cruise was the perfect setting.

She had basically had this plan that she was ready for sex after engagement (used to be marriage) and the cruise was perfect for it. Once she found out the week before we wouldnt be getting engaged.....obviously the mood shifted.

[Cassie]

She is making you pay for sex. Can we say unhealthy and manipulative?

[Metalcat]

Leaving is really tough and some people stay together because no one has the balls to leave. I find that really sad.  Yes if you are in a long marriage it can be work at times but not all the time.  If you are ever able to let go later you will be mad at yourself for staying too long. If she was serious about sex the cruise was the perfect setting.

She had basically had this plan that she was ready for sex after engagement (used to be marriage) and the cruise was perfect for it. Once she found out the week before we wouldnt be getting engaged.....obviously the mood shifted.

I'm just going to keep calling you out every time someone challenges your thinking and you jump to explaining HER point of view and not your own.

[englishteacheralex]

Somebody else way up thread said basically the same thing I've been thinking this whole time, but I have a little time on my hands so I'll write my own response, too.

Your relationship is riddled with logical fallacies and inconsistencies. I think that's why so many people are jumping on it.

Personally, I'm a very conservative Christian. I had religious convictions to not have sex until I was married. Because of this, I also refused to live with a man until I was married. This conviction led to most men rejecting me until I found one who felt the same way I did and also was very compatible with me. We dated for seven months before getting engaged and then were married five months later. Only when we were married did we have sex.

This wasn't because we weren't interested in sex. We just believe that sex is sacred and leads to big problems if people mess around with it outside of a committed relationship. So in that way, I totally get where the GF is coming from. I have no interest in extra-marital sex, either. Too much risk. I can't be vulnerable that way unless the guy is married to me. And I refuse to apologize for that, and I actually think there's a lot of sense in it regardless of one's religious feelings or lack of them.

What makes no sense is why are you living together?? You guys have been acting like you're married for years, except you aren't married at all. This is why there's so much chaos and confusion.

There's a general lack of clarity and direction in your life, at least from the sound of your posts. I definitely think some time apart--as much as you have the gumption for--is going to help you a lot.

Finally, have you ever heard of Jordan Peterson? He's controversial and a lot of people can't stand him, but personally, I think a lot of what he has to say about young men pursuing purpose and what makes good relationships is spot on. Just look him up on Youtube. There are dozens and dozens of good clips if you have some time to go down a little rabbit hole.

[Captain FIRE]

If you are taking a two week break, why did *you* move out of your house? 

If you're testing the waters of being single, that's a ridiculous way to go about it because if you were single, wouldn't you stay in the house (and she would move out) considering it's your house???

Did she pitch it that way so it's "fair"?  This reminds me of when you said that she felt it wasn't "fair" for her to work on intimacy but that you didn't have anything to work on.  Sometimes, things aren't fair. 

It's totally illogical for you to move out, unless she's hoping that the discomfort of living away from home will make you miss her/your relationship more and have you return to her.  Which, while a horrible thing to do to someone, could be very effective because couch surfing does suck, even more so while you're paying your mortgage.  And ultimately, not giving the break up a fair trial means that if you do go back to her, your doubts won't all be resolved.

[zoochadookdook]

If you are taking a two week break, why did *you* move out of your house? 

If you're testing the waters of being single, that's a ridiculous way to go about it because if you were single, wouldn't you stay in the house (and she would move out) considering it's your house???

Did she pitch it that way so it's "fair"?  This reminds me of when you said that she felt it wasn't "fair" for her to work on intimacy but that you didn't have anything to work on.  Sometimes, things aren't fair. 

It's totally illogical for you to move out, unless she's hoping that the discomfort of living away from home will make you miss her/your relationship more and have you return to her.  Which, while a horrible thing to do to someone, could be very effective because couch surfing does suck, even more so while you're paying your mortgage.  And ultimately, not giving the break up a fair trial means that if you do go back to her, your doubts won't all be resolved.

It was more to the idea that her moms house doesnt have the office cleaned out (space) and her dads is under construction. I have friends with prepared living arrangements and thought it would be easier for me to stay with them.

She's under the impression that she knows how she feels and it's really up to me to make up my mind. Stay with her and try to work through it or give up and dont. She hasn't given up and is to the point that if I care I'll try.

I do care, and I want to try, but it just doesnt make sense how I'm supposed to.

[zoochadookdook]

Somebody else way up thread said basically the same thing I've been thinking this whole time, but I have a little time on my hands so I'll write my own response, too.

Your relationship is riddled with logical fallacies and inconsistencies. I think that's why so many people are jumping on it.

Personally, I'm a very conservative Christian. I had religious convictions to not have sex until I was married. Because of this, I also refused to live with a man until I was married. This conviction led to most men rejecting me until I found one who felt the same way I did and also was very compatible with me. We dated for seven months before getting engaged and then were married five months later. Only when we were married did we have sex.

This wasn't because we weren't interested in sex. We just believe that sex is sacred and leads to big problems if people mess around with it outside of a committed relationship. So in that way, I totally get where the GF is coming from. I have no interest in extra-marital sex, either. Too much risk. I can't be vulnerable that way unless the guy is married to me. And I refuse to apologize for that, and I actually think there's a lot of sense in it regardless of one's religious feelings or lack of them.

What makes no sense is why are you living together?? You guys have been acting like you're married for years, except you aren't married at all. This is why there's so much chaos and confusion.

There's a general lack of clarity and direction in your life, at least from the sound of your posts. I definitely think some time apart--as much as you have the gumption for--is going to help you a lot.

Finally, have you ever heard of Jordan Peterson? He's controversial and a lot of people can't stand him, but personally, I think a lot of what he has to say about young men pursuing purpose and what makes good relationships is spot on. Just look him up on Youtube. There are dozens and dozens of good clips if you have some time to go down a little rabbit hole.

I guess the core of it is I don't want to continue a celibate relationship although it may be the factor I need to get to marraige I'm not sure. I think that she has seen the damage sex can do and while she wants it in our future and was mentally prepared to start on the ship/after percieved engagement-me not being on the same page made her retract. Now she cant even imagine trying if I can commit to a future 100%.

[zoochadookdook]

And yes we have been living together for so long that it is and has been a constant in our lives

[Kris]

If you are taking a two week break, why did *you* move out of your house? 

If you're testing the waters of being single, that's a ridiculous way to go about it because if you were single, wouldn't you stay in the house (and she would move out) considering it's your house???

Did she pitch it that way so it's "fair"?  This reminds me of when you said that she felt it wasn't "fair" for her to work on intimacy but that you didn't have anything to work on.  Sometimes, things aren't fair. 

It's totally illogical for you to move out, unless she's hoping that the discomfort of living away from home will make you miss her/your relationship more and have you return to her.  Which, while a horrible thing to do to someone, could be very effective because couch surfing does suck, even more so while you're paying your mortgage.  And ultimately, not giving the break up a fair trial means that if you do go back to her, your doubts won't all be resolved.

It was more to the idea that her moms house doesnt have the office cleaned out (space) and her dads is under construction. I have friends with prepared living arrangements and thought it would be easier for me to stay with them.

She's under the impression that she knows how she feels and it's really up to me to make up my mind. Stay with her and try to work through it or give up and dont. She hasn't given up and is to the point that if I care I'll try.

I do care, and I want to try, but it just doesnt make sense how I'm supposed to.

So, if you two break up, it’s all your fault.

That’s about the gist of how she wants you to think, isn’t it?

[zoochadookdook]

If you are taking a two week break, why did *you* move out of your house? 

If you're testing the waters of being single, that's a ridiculous way to go about it because if you were single, wouldn't you stay in the house (and she would move out) considering it's your house???

Did she pitch it that way so it's "fair"?  This reminds me of when you said that she felt it wasn't "fair" for her to work on intimacy but that you didn't have anything to work on.  Sometimes, things aren't fair. 

It's totally illogical for you to move out, unless she's hoping that the discomfort of living away from home will make you miss her/your relationship more and have you return to her.  Which, while a horrible thing to do to someone, could be very effective because couch surfing does suck, even more so while you're paying your mortgage.  And ultimately, not giving the break up a fair trial means that if you do go back to her, your doubts won't all be resolved.

It was more to the idea that her moms house doesnt have the office cleaned out (space) and her dads is under construction. I have friends with prepared living arrangements and thought it would be easier for me to stay with them.

She's under the impression that she knows how she feels and it's really up to me to make up my mind. Stay with her and try to work through it or give up and dont. She hasn't given up and is to the point that if I care I'll try.

I do care, and I want to try, but it just doesnt make sense how I'm supposed to.

So, if you two break up, it’s all your fault.

That’s about the gist of how she wants you to think, isn’t it?

If we break up it's because we havent tried long enough to see if we can work through this. We really only did start this like a month ago.

[Metalcat]

If you are taking a two week break, why did *you* move out of your house? 

If you're testing the waters of being single, that's a ridiculous way to go about it because if you were single, wouldn't you stay in the house (and she would move out) considering it's your house???

Did she pitch it that way so it's "fair"?  This reminds me of when you said that she felt it wasn't "fair" for her to work on intimacy but that you didn't have anything to work on.  Sometimes, things aren't fair. 

It's totally illogical for you to move out, unless she's hoping that the discomfort of living away from home will make you miss her/your relationship more and have you return to her.  Which, while a horrible thing to do to someone, could be very effective because couch surfing does suck, even more so while you're paying your mortgage.  And ultimately, not giving the break up a fair trial means that if you do go back to her, your doubts won't all be resolved.

It was more to the idea that her moms house doesnt have the office cleaned out (space) and her dads is under construction. I have friends with prepared living arrangements and thought it would be easier for me to stay with them.

She's under the impression that she knows how she feels and it's really up to me to make up my mind. Stay with her and try to work through it or give up and dont. She hasn't given up and is to the point that if I care I'll try.

I do care, and I want to try, but it just doesnt make sense how I'm supposed to.

So, if you two break up, it’s all your fault.

That’s about the gist of how she wants you to think, isn’t it?

If we break up it's because we havent tried long enough to see if we can work through this. We really only did start this like a month ago.

No.
You've been together for 7 years.

A month ago, you started acknowledging that your relationship doesn't work.

[zoochadookdook]

If you are taking a two week break, why did *you* move out of your house? 

If you're testing the waters of being single, that's a ridiculous way to go about it because if you were single, wouldn't you stay in the house (and she would move out) considering it's your house???

Did she pitch it that way so it's "fair"?  This reminds me of when you said that she felt it wasn't "fair" for her to work on intimacy but that you didn't have anything to work on.  Sometimes, things aren't fair. 

It's totally illogical for you to move out, unless she's hoping that the discomfort of living away from home will make you miss her/your relationship more and have you return to her.  Which, while a horrible thing to do to someone, could be very effective because couch surfing does suck, even more so while you're paying your mortgage.  And ultimately, not giving the break up a fair trial means that if you do go back to her, your doubts won't all be resolved.

It was more to the idea that her moms house doesnt have the office cleaned out (space) and her dads is under construction. I have friends with prepared living arrangements and thought it would be easier for me to stay with them.

She's under the impression that she knows how she feels and it's really up to me to make up my mind. Stay with her and try to work through it or give up and dont. She hasn't given up and is to the point that if I care I'll try.

I do care, and I want to try, but it just doesnt make sense how I'm supposed to.

So, if you two break up, it’s all your fault.

That’s about the gist of how she wants you to think, isn’t it?

If we break up it's because we havent tried long enough to see if we can work through this. We really only did start this like a month ago.

No.
You've been together for 7 years.

A month ago, you started acknowledging that your relationship doesn't work.

Here's her logic. It's out in the open now what's not working. Why dont we try to work on it before we leave?

[Kris]

If you are taking a two week break, why did *you* move out of your house? 

If you're testing the waters of being single, that's a ridiculous way to go about it because if you were single, wouldn't you stay in the house (and she would move out) considering it's your house???

Did she pitch it that way so it's "fair"?  This reminds me of when you said that she felt it wasn't "fair" for her to work on intimacy but that you didn't have anything to work on.  Sometimes, things aren't fair. 

It's totally illogical for you to move out, unless she's hoping that the discomfort of living away from home will make you miss her/your relationship more and have you return to her.  Which, while a horrible thing to do to someone, could be very effective because couch surfing does suck, even more so while you're paying your mortgage.  And ultimately, not giving the break up a fair trial means that if you do go back to her, your doubts won't all be resolved.

It was more to the idea that her moms house doesnt have the office cleaned out (space) and her dads is under construction. I have friends with prepared living arrangements and thought it would be easier for me to stay with them.

She's under the impression that she knows how she feels and it's really up to me to make up my mind. Stay with her and try to work through it or give up and dont. She hasn't given up and is to the point that if I care I'll try.

I do care, and I want to try, but it just doesnt make sense how I'm supposed to.

So, if you two break up, it’s all your fault.

That’s about the gist of how she wants you to think, isn’t it?

If we break up it's because we havent tried long enough to see if we can work through this. We really only did start this like a month ago.

No.
You've been together for 7 years.

A month ago, you started acknowledging that your relationship doesn't work.

Here's her logic. It's out in the open now what's not working. Why dont we try to work on it before we leave?

You’re at a stalemate, though.

She wants engagement, and will not move forward on even trying to establish an intimate relationship with you until she gets a ring.

You want/need to have a relationship with intimacy in a person you could consider getting engaged to.

I don’t know what there is to “work on” anymore. Unless what she means is you need to work on being okay with proposing to her even though you aren’t ready or comfortable with it.

[Metalcat]

Here's her logic. It's out in the open now what's not working. Why dont we try to work on it before we leave?

And AGAIN you are speaking to HER perspective when someone challenges you on your own experience.

[zoochadookdook]

Here's her logic. It's out in the open now what's not working. Why dont we try to work on it before we leave?

And AGAIN you are speaking to HER perspective when someone challenges you on your own experience.

I feel split. I dont want to try to change a relationship that has been proven one way-however I do feel like it may be possible (you dont know unless you try) now that everything is out in the open.

[Psychstache]

If you are taking a two week break, why did *you* move out of your house? 

If you're testing the waters of being single, that's a ridiculous way to go about it because if you were single, wouldn't you stay in the house (and she would move out) considering it's your house???

Did she pitch it that way so it's "fair"?  This reminds me of when you said that she felt it wasn't "fair" for her to work on intimacy but that you didn't have anything to work on.  Sometimes, things aren't fair. 

It's totally illogical for you to move out, unless she's hoping that the discomfort of living away from home will make you miss her/your relationship more and have you return to her.  Which, while a horrible thing to do to someone, could be very effective because couch surfing does suck, even more so while you're paying your mortgage.  And ultimately, not giving the break up a fair trial means that if you do go back to her, your doubts won't all be resolved.

It was more to the idea that her moms house doesnt have the office cleaned out (space) and her dads is under construction. I have friends with prepared living arrangements and thought it would be easier for me to stay with them.

She's under the impression that she knows how she feels and it's really up to me to make up my mind. Stay with her and try to work through it or give up and dont. She hasn't given up and is to the point that if I care I'll try.

I do care, and I want to try, but it just doesnt make sense how I'm supposed to.

So, as a thought experiment, let's see how her impression holds up if we flip it.

Let's say that we get through the two weeks and you say the following:

"Now that we have had a little space and some time to reflect, I have made up my mind and I understand what I want and need out of a relationship. I need to know that there is an underlying compatibility of a romantic, physical, and sexual nature in order to commit to a partner. Without that knowledge I cannot proceed with a proposal, engagement, or marriage until I have that component of a relationship. That is how I feel. Now, do you want to stay and try and work through it or do you want to give up?"

Do that show how limiting this framing of "try everything before we call it quits" is? You too have a fundamental incompatibility in your goals for relationships. Honestly, I think the therapy was really helpful. You two have revealed and shared that you have no path forward as a long-term bonded pair.

edited: grammar is hard.

[zoochadookdook]

If you are taking a two week break, why did *you* move out of your house? 

If you're testing the waters of being single, that's a ridiculous way to go about it because if you were single, wouldn't you stay in the house (and she would move out) considering it's your house???

Did she pitch it that way so it's "fair"?  This reminds me of when you said that she felt it wasn't "fair" for her to work on intimacy but that you didn't have anything to work on.  Sometimes, things aren't fair. 

It's totally illogical for you to move out, unless she's hoping that the discomfort of living away from home will make you miss her/your relationship more and have you return to her.  Which, while a horrible thing to do to someone, could be very effective because couch surfing does suck, even more so while you're paying your mortgage.  And ultimately, not giving the break up a fair trial means that if you do go back to her, your doubts won't all be resolved.

It was more to the idea that her moms house doesnt have the office cleaned out (space) and her dads is under construction. I have friends with prepared living arrangements and thought it would be easier for me to stay with them.

She's under the impression that she knows how she feels and it's really up to me to make up my mind. Stay with her and try to work through it or give up and dont. She hasn't given up and is to the point that if I care I'll try.

I do care, and I want to try, but it just doesnt make sense how I'm supposed to.

So, as a thought experiment, let's see how her impression holds up if we flip it.

Let's say that we get through the two weeks and you say the following:

"Now that we have had a little space and some time to reflect, I have made up my mind and I understand what I want and need out of a relationship. I need to know that there is an underlying compatibility of a romantic, physical, and sexual nature in order to commit to a partner. Without that knowledge I cannot proceed with a proposal, engagement, or marriage until I have that component of a relationship. That is how I feel. Now, do you want to stay and try and work through it or do you want to give up?"

Do that show how limiting this framing of "try everything before we call it quits" is? You too have a fundamental incompatibility in your goals for relationships. Honestly, I think the therapy was really helpful. You two have revealed and shared that you have no path forward as a long-term bonded pair.

edited: grammar is hard.

I'm actually interested in hearing her reply. It seems to be along the lines of "I cant do that unless I know you're commited" and back and forth. Neither of us is wrong I dont think.

[LadyMuMu]

Thought experiment: if you two didn't live together but everything else was the same (no sex, no marriage path, etc.), would you still be in this relationship? Would she? Would you both drive across town to spend time together and drive home by yourselves several times a week for seven years with no progress on what's important to you? Would you stay exclusive or would you both continue to see other people?

In a way, it seems that living together has short-circuited this relationship more than anything else. When I was dating, I never wanted to move in with a guy because I knew it would be so hard (emotionally and logistically) to move out. Not living together gives you the clarity and maneuvering room to make good choices early on.

[FIFoFum]

No one has to be "wrong" or at "at fault."

You're not compatible. Both of you are saying the same thing that you're not compatible. Only she is framing that incompatibility as something you should "Work on" or that you can "Try" to do something about. There is nothing you can do because that's what incompatibility means. It is NOT quitting to accept this truth. Love doesn't overcome incompatibility.

OP - This thread is 11 pages long. There hasn't been a single person who has commented to you that thinks this relationship IS working or CAN work in the future. Do you know how uncommon that is here?

People in long term marriages, people who have been divorced, people who are your age, people who are older than you, people who have a religious perspective and set of beliefs around marriage/relationships, people who are completely secular....there is a reason that EVERYONE is telling you the same thing.

The problem isn't that you aren't trying hard enough or don't know what you want. The problem is that you are incompatible. This isn't ONE person's fault, because incompatibility means you want different and inconsistent things from one another. There is no longer conversation with her that is going to change this. You already have talked enough. You already KNOW what the behaviors from one another you each are seeking would be.

Your gf is trying to convince you that if you tried harder or loved more, you would change who you are or what you want in life or how you feel about your own needs. This is false, and every single person reading this thread has come to the exact same conclusion.

At this point, you don't need another 100 opinions or back and forths with people telling you the same thing. You most certainly don't need to subject your gf's behavior to more attack that you feel the need to defend (it's not her fault! it's not your fault! you're just not a good fit for each other!).

At this point, you need to sit down with someone who is supportive of you and your needs, while also sympathetic to your feelings and desire not to continue hurting your gf. Whether it's a close friend or seeing a therapist for yourself, you need someone with you that can help you work your way through the point of inevitability (the break up of an unhealthy relationship) that every single other person here can see but can't do for you.

[zoochadookdook]

Thought experiment: if you two didn't live together but everything else was the same (no sex, no marriage path, etc.), would you still be in this relationship? Would she? Would you both drive across town to spend time together and drive home by yourselves several times a week for seven years with no progress on what's important to you? Would you stay exclusive or would you both continue to see other people?

In a way, it seems that living together has short-circuited this relationship more than anything else. When I was dating, I never wanted to move in with a guy because I knew it would be so hard (emotionally and logistically) to move out. Not living together gives you the clarity and maneuvering room to make good choices early on.

I should ask her. We've lived together quite a while and I think just the day to day existance has overridden our ideas that the other person will feel the same without talking about things.

Even this morning she mentioned that she never felt I was committed to the future-just the present.

[BeanCounter]

Thought experiment: if you two didn't live together but everything else was the same (no sex, no marriage path, etc.), would you still be in this relationship? Would she? Would you both drive across town to spend time together and drive home by yourselves several times a week for seven years with no progress on what's important to you? Would you stay exclusive or would you both continue to see other people?

In a way, it seems that living together has short-circuited this relationship more than anything else. When I was dating, I never wanted to move in with a guy because I knew it would be so hard (emotionally and logistically) to move out. Not living together gives you the clarity and maneuvering room to make good choices early on.

This. 100% this.
When you choose not to live with each other before marriage (notice I didn't say not sleep together) you get to a point where you both say "this is silly, we have two places yet we're always together" or "I hate going home and being without you". You realize that you need to fix this by getting married and merge your whole life to one. Or maybe you don't sleep together before marriage because of your beliefs, then you usually want to sleep together so bad you hurry up and figure out how to get married and merge your whole life together.
Or you date and realize that you are actually pretty happy without that person or that you want to see what else is out there or your just not sure (which means you don't really want to be with that person). You breakup and move on.
You've merged everything together without the full commitment, and without sex and now you can't figure out how to unwind it. So your stuck trying to work on something that isn't going to work because unwinding it is hard.
No relationship in your twenties should require this much work.

[zoochadookdook]

I guess we have just continued on it being on different pages. I feel like a trial period apart isn't helping though. We need to decide to seperate or pursue sex positive consoling/some kind of serious therapy.

[Cassie]

We don’t need to decide anything. You need to grow a set and breakup.

[former player]

We don’t need to decide anything. You need to grow a set and breakup.

If it were that easy for OP he would have done so pages ago.  Although he is meticulous in replying to comments he has totally ignored my previous post suggesting in part that his ex/roommate is gaslighting him, which makes me think that there is some level of abuse going on here, at least emotionally, which he is unable or unwilling to acknowledge.  If I'm right, saying he needs to grow a set, which is the right answer if he is not under some sort of abuse, probably isn't going to work.

We don't know much about OP's ex/roommate: OP has been with this woman since she was a teenager, she works in early years childcare and doesn't earn much, and she lives rent free in his house and his head.  I suspect that she probably presents herself to the world as a sweet young woman.  That does not prevent her from being deviously and selfishly manipulative of others, but it does make it harder for others to recognise that fact and act on it.

I hope OP takes up the suggestion of an individual counsellor for himself alone, and that he minimises contact with his ex/roommate in the meantime.

[RetiredAt63]

Thought experiment: if you two didn't live together but everything else was the same (no sex, no marriage path, etc.), would you still be in this relationship? Would she? Would you both drive across town to spend time together and drive home by yourselves several times a week for seven years with no progress on what's important to you? Would you stay exclusive or would you both continue to see other people?

In a way, it seems that living together has short-circuited this relationship more than anything else. When I was dating, I never wanted to move in with a guy because I knew it would be so hard (emotionally and logistically) to move out. Not living together gives you the clarity and maneuvering room to make good choices early on.

^^^This.  DD and S-i-L were  taking turns traveling between cities on weekends, to see each other.  After several months they both knew that  they were committed to each other and made plans for one to move to the other's city.

S-i-L once told me that it was a really good way to test how strong the commitment was - if either had found reasons to miss a weekend, on a consistent basis, they would have known the relationship wasn't strong enough to develop any further.