NEW 2 year on off relationship - starts Pg 21. Issues with trust/attachment.

[PoutineLover]

Yes being in limbo is not sustainable. However once we separate/break up-I'm not opposed to the idea of leaving a door open in the future. I think we both have things to work out and figure out on our own but I could see her as a life partner at some point. 

Do you think she will develop a libido after a year apart?
Will you decide you want kids?
Keeping this relationship as an option makes it that much harder to move on, and it prevents both of you from fully experiencing single life apart from the influence of the other. Make a clean break. Allow yourself to do things for yourself and break this cycle of codependency.

[Raenia]

Yes being in limbo is not sustainable. However once we separate/break up-I'm not opposed to the idea of leaving a door open in the future. I think we both have things to work out and figure out on our own but I could see her as a life partner at some point.

This is a really dangerous thing to do - by suggesting it, you'll counterintuitively be letting her think that she doesn't have to do that personal growth and figuring things out.  If you tell her this, she'll hear that you need to figure some things out, and then you'll be ready to come back to her.

[Barbaebigode]

Keeping a door open can mean lots of things. As long as it means something different from commitment to monogamy and weekly calls, you might be onto something.

[former player]

Yes being in limbo is not sustainable. However once we separate/break up-I'm not opposed to the idea of leaving a door open in the future. I think we both have things to work out and figure out on our own but I could see her as a life partner at some point.

That is just another way of being in limbo.  Don't do it, either to you or to her.

[LadyMuMu]

I'm going to set the relationship stuff aside because I think you've received very good input already on that front.

***************************************************************************
But as for your chat with your current employer tomorrow, please read this post first.

https://www.askamanager.org/2012/03/why-you-shouldnt-take-a-counteroffer.html

***************************************************************************

DONT TAKE THE COUNTEROFFER!

[six-car-habit]

$22 / hr x 2080 hours annually = $45,700
New job pays $65K anually to start.  That seems like a 40% increase.  Am I missing something here ?

[zoochadookdook]

$22 / hr x 2080 hours annually = $45,700
New job pays $65K anually to start.  That seems like a 40% increase.  Am I missing something here ?

Assuming the current position offers me salary around 60k once I mention the next job+benefits.

Also I'm able to scrape 500-1000/month on side jobs in this local area.

[zoochadookdook]

Yes being in limbo is not sustainable. However once we separate/break up-I'm not opposed to the idea of leaving a door open in the future. I think we both have things to work out and figure out on our own but I could see her as a life partner at some point.

This is a really dangerous thing to do - by suggesting it, you'll counterintuitively be letting her think that she doesn't have to do that personal growth and figuring things out.  If you tell her this, she'll hear that you need to figure some things out, and then you'll be ready to come back to her.

I definitely do need to; but so does she (despite her telling me she knows what she wants)

[erutio]

$22 / hr x 2080 hours annually = $45,700
New job pays $65K anually to start.  That seems like a 40% increase.  Am I missing something here ?

Yeah, not sure if you caught the last 17 pages or so, but the OP is in a co-dependent relationship, that seemingly no amount of reason, pressure, ridicule, money, or prospects for sex can motivate him to get out off.

[zoochadookdook]

I'm going to set the relationship stuff aside because I think you've received very good input already on that front.

***************************************************************************
But as for your chat with your current employer tomorrow, please read this post first.

https://www.askamanager.org/2012/03/why-you-shouldnt-take-a-counteroffer.html

***************************************************************************

DONT TAKE THE COUNTEROFFER!

That made some interesting points. Some which don't seem applicable but some which could be/are. Really you never know what's going on behind the scenes

[zoochadookdook]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

[JLee]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

Read the post I wrote earlier today. You're fundamentally incompatible. You want different things in life.

[Cool Friend]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

What do you hope using this disclaimer will accomplish?

[Cassie]

Take the new job and break up with your girlfriend. It’s in your best interests.  You are young and time for a new start.

[zoochadookdook]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

What do you hope using this disclaimer will accomplish?

Exactly what it says. I'm not opposed to getting married if after being apart for a while we change our ideals or such to the point where we are on the same page. The chances of the happening are slim to slimmer; however I wouldn't have been in this relationship for this long if I wasn't interested in the long haul to some degree.

[Cool Friend]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

What do you hope using this disclaimer will accomplish?

Exactly what it says. I'm not opposed to getting married if after being apart for a while we change our ideals or such to the point where we are on the same page. The chances of the happening are slim to slimmer; however I wouldn't have been in this relationship for this long if I wasn't interested in the long haul to some degree.

If the chances are slim, why say it at all?  It's going to make her think you're on a break.  Is that what you want?  To go on a break?

[Villanelle]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

Just leave off that last sentence.  What purpose does it serve?  To soften the blow?  That should NOT be your goal right now.

Look, even if you don't say that last part, it's not as though you are forbidden from getting back together if you don't throw that in.  It is NOT a kindess to either her or you. 

It is almost certainly going to be a TERRIBLE idea, but if, in a year, you want to get back together with her and you feel everyone has "figured out" whatever it is you think would solve all this, you can get back together with her without have stipulated that fact in the break up.  So it serves no purpose other than to assuage your guilt about breaking up with her, and leading her on and preventing her (and you) from moving forward with the mentality that this is over. 

I, and everyone here, can tell you why it's a terrible idea to say that. Can you tell us what GOOD it actually serves?  What it accomplishes that is healthy and valuable?

I, and everyone here, can tell you why it's a terrible idea to say that. Can you tell us what GOOD it actually serves?  What it accomplishes that is healthy and valuable? 

Okay, it's a teeny tiny bit possible you get back together.  It's still just as possible if you don't say that.  Unless you think not saying it will allow her to move on, and you are trying to prevent that.  In which case you are kind of a dick, and I don't think you are.

[MonkeyJenga]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

Amazing! Except for that last sentence. That is limbo, and she will not treat it as a break up.

She will latch on to that and assume this is a period of mutual self exploration, at the end of which will be what she wants. Just end it. If one or both of you somehow magically changes and realizes life is too hard without each other, you've all gone to individual therapy, worked on your barriers, fit so perfectly, want amazing sex and all the babies and rings and shit, well, the door will be open. You know where to find each other. You don't need to say that now, though.

You need to end the relationship. Actually end it. Like, good luck moving on without me, forever.

If nothing else, take pity on all of us readers, and end this months-long cliffhanger. (Months? It can't be months, right? *Checks first post* April 2nd.)

I have experience breaking up with someone who didn't realize we were breaking up. It's harder the second time, believe me.

[JLee]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

What do you hope using this disclaimer will accomplish?

Exactly what it says. I'm not opposed to getting married if after being apart for a while we change our ideals or such to the point where we are on the same page. The chances of the happening are slim to slimmer; however I wouldn't have been in this relationship for this long if I wasn't interested in the long haul to some degree.

"I'm not opposed to getting married if we are different people later."

See how ridiculous that is?

[zoochadookdook]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

Amazing! Except for that last sentence. That is limbo, and she will not treat it as a break up.

She will latch on to that and assume this is a period of mutual self exploration, at the end of which will be what she wants. Just end it. If one or both of you somehow magically changes and realizes life is too hard without each other, you've all gone to individual therapy, worked on your barriers, fit so perfectly, want amazing sex and all the babies and rings and shit, well, the door will be open. You know where to find each other. You don't need to say that now, though.

You need to end the relationship. Actually end it. Like, good luck moving on without me, forever.

If nothing else, take pity on all of us readers, and end this months-long cliffhanger. (Months? It can't be months, right? *Checks first post* April 2nd. Dang)

I have experience breaking up with someone who didn't realize we were breaking up. It's harder the second time, believe me.

This has been months and I think that's why it's been so crazy. We've just actually come to light the differences of opinion in april vs never mentioning it the other 7 years. As much as it's being drug out; a lot has been both of us ignoring it back and forth, consoling, locked in a loop, etc. This job offer is honestly the perfect timing because up until now I just felt the day to day pressure with no option that I felt ok with. Shoot I still feel like garbage regardless of what I do.

[zoochadookdook]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

What do you hope using this disclaimer will accomplish?

Exactly what it says. I'm not opposed to getting married if after being apart for a while we change our ideals or such to the point where we are on the same page. The chances of the happening are slim to slimmer; however I wouldn't have been in this relationship for this long if I wasn't interested in the long haul to some degree.

"I'm not opposed to getting married if we are different people later."

See how ridiculous that is?

Well based on how my parents relationship changed over years/they ended up divorced; I know it's possible for people to change fairly drastically over time. I would say current me is very different from 18 year old me.

[former player]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

Amazing! Except for that last sentence. That is limbo, and she will not treat it as a break up.

She will latch on to that and assume this is a period of mutual self exploration, at the end of which will be what she wants. Just end it. If one or both of you somehow magically changes and realizes life is too hard without each other, you've all gone to individual therapy, worked on your barriers, fit so perfectly, want amazing sex and all the babies and rings and shit, well, the door will be open. You know where to find each other. You don't need to say that now, though.

You need to end the relationship. Actually end it. Like, good luck moving on without me, forever.

If nothing else, take pity on all of us readers, and end this months-long cliffhanger. (Months? It can't be months, right? *Checks first post* April 2nd. Dang)

I have experience breaking up with someone who didn't realize we were breaking up. It's harder the second time, believe me.

This has been months and I think that's why it's been so crazy. We've just actually come to light the differences of opinion in april vs never mentioning it the other 7 years. As much as it's being drug out; a lot has been both of us ignoring it back and forth, consoling, locked in a loop, etc. This job offer is honestly the perfect timing because up until now I just felt the day to day pressure with no option that I felt ok with. Shoot I still feel like garbage regardless of what I do.

If you go through with a final break up you may feel like garbage for a few days.  If you don't go through with a final break up you will feel like garbage for the rest of your life.

[KBecks]

She needs to be given the opportunity to meet a man who wants marriage and is ready for marriage soon.  You are not there right now.  That is OK! 

A break for her will hurt her, but she will recover and get on with her life.  And that is what she needs to do.  She can't find her husband if she is waiting around for you when you are not ready.

I had a boyfriend once tell me that I needed someone to marry and have babies with.  He made it very clear that he was not that guy.  I appreciated it in the long run.  It's not good to waste your time and emotional energy with people who have different goals than you do.

[runbikerun]

Why are you still talking about her as a potential life partner?

You have clearly and repeatedly explained that you're not willing to have an asexual marriage. That is an absolutely reasonable position. Instead of acknowledging your needs, she's opted to use them as leverage to try to push you into proposing: that's a shitty thing to do, and should be a colossal red flag. Why would you want to share your life with someone who does that?

[zoochadookdook]

Why are you still talking about her as a potential life partner?

You have clearly and repeatedly explained that you're not willing to have an asexual marriage. That is an absolutely reasonable position. Instead of acknowledging your needs, she's opted to use them as leverage to try to push you into proposing: that's a shitty thing to do, and should be a colossal red flag. Why would you want to share your life with someone who does that?

I don't believe she's doing it vindictively. I think she's scared/when I did cheat I changed her perspective on sex. It would have been a lot easier to discuss a few years in vs now though. She doesn't want to have sex unless we're married because she doesn't want to be vulnerable unless it's to someone who's building that future. I know i'm not ready for marriage right now for several reasons (career/financial is a big one for me but not the only reason). I'd share my life with her if I got to the point where I was comfortable in a marriage perspective with our goals lining up and she could establish her sexuality; because as people we're very compatible. These are fundamentals and probably won't change but if I could Thanos snap my fingers just to see "what could happen" I'd be very interested.

[zoochadookdook]

She needs to be given the opportunity to meet a man who wants marriage and is ready for marriage soon.  You are not there right now.  That is OK! 

A break for her will hurt her, but she will recover and get on with her life.  And that is what she needs to do.  She can't find her husband if she is waiting around for you when you are not ready.

I had a boyfriend once tell me that I needed someone to marry and have babies with.  He made it very clear that he was not that guy.  I appreciated it in the long run.  It's not good to waste your time and emotional energy with people who have different goals than you do.

And I've said that- I've said you can definitely find someone whose goals line up with yours-I know how important it is for you to have kids in this timeframe and be married. She just says she doesn't want anyone else etc etc. I've tried to make it clear we have different goals.

[Cool Friend]

Why are you still talking about her as a potential life partner?

You have clearly and repeatedly explained that you're not willing to have an asexual marriage. That is an absolutely reasonable position. Instead of acknowledging your needs, she's opted to use them as leverage to try to push you into proposing: that's a shitty thing to do, and should be a colossal red flag. Why would you want to share your life with someone who does that?

I don't believe she's doing it vindictively. I think she's scared/when I did cheat I changed her perspective on sex. It would have been a lot easier to discuss a few years in vs now though. She doesn't want to have sex unless we're married because she doesn't want to be vulnerable unless it's to someone who's building that future. I know i'm not ready for marriage right now for several reasons (career/financial is a big one for me but not the only reason). I'd share my life with her if I got to the point where I was comfortable in a marriage perspective with our goals lining up and she could establish her sexuality; because as people we're very compatible. These are fundamentals and probably won't change but if I could Thanos snap my fingers just to see "what could happen" I'd be very interested.

Whether she's doing it vindictively or not is irrelevant.  It's a shitty thing to do regardless of whether she "means it" or not. You've already explained her point of view several times and that does not change anything about it.  Since you know the fundamentals are unlikely to change, there's no reason to dangle a carrot in front of her.  I get it, you want to leave the door open a crack because you've never known anything else, and a untenable situation you're familiar with is less scary than the unknown, even when the unknown could be worlds better.  Everybody on earth clings to the devil they know sometimes, you're not alone. But I bet eventually you're realize that not closing this door all the way just lets more trouble through.

[charis]

Why are you still talking about her as a potential life partner?

You have clearly and repeatedly explained that you're not willing to have an asexual marriage. That is an absolutely reasonable position. Instead of acknowledging your needs, she's opted to use them as leverage to try to push you into proposing: that's a shitty thing to do, and should be a colossal red flag. Why would you want to share your life with someone who does that?

I don't believe she's doing it vindictively. I think she's scared/when I did cheat I changed her perspective on sex. It would have been a lot easier to discuss a few years in vs now though. She doesn't want to have sex unless we're married because she doesn't want to be vulnerable unless it's to someone who's building that future. I know i'm not ready for marriage right now for several reasons (career/financial is a big one for me but not the only reason). I'd share my life with her if I got to the point where I was comfortable in a marriage perspective with our goals lining up and she could establish her sexuality; because as people we're very compatible. These are fundamentals and probably won't change but if I could Thanos snap my fingers just to see "what could happen" I'd be very interested.

She's not scared.  She's just not attracted to you, buddy.  She may have been once, a long time ago, but she is not anymore.  Maybe you are holding to the idea that "she could establish her sexuality" with your under the right circumstances to protect your ego a bit, idk.  But face the facts man.  You are constantly talking in circles here in a desperate effort to make sense of why you've spent 7 years in a platonic relationship. 

I get it, hindsight can be too painful.   And people of a certain age who want kids will frantically cling to an ill-suited partner because the thing they are most scared about is starting over and ending up childless.  You can't rationalize her into accepting (1) your point of view, (2) your man-splaining about how she'll be better off, or (3) a mutual break up.  It just needs to end.

[iris lily]

Why are you still talking about her as a potential life partner?

You have clearly and repeatedly explained that you're not willing to have an asexual marriage. That is an absolutely reasonable position. Instead of acknowledging your needs, she's opted to use them as leverage to try to push you into proposing: that's a shitty thing to do, and should be a colossal red flag. Why would you want to share your life with someone who does that?

I don't believe she's doing it vindictively. I think she's scared/when I did cheat I changed her perspective on sex. It would have been a lot easier to discuss a few years in vs now though. She doesn't want to have sex unless we're married because she doesn't want to be vulnerable unless it's to someone who's building that future. I know i'm not ready for marriage right now for several reasons (career/financial is a big one for me but not the only reason). I'd share my life with her if I got to the point where I was comfortable in a marriage perspective with our goals lining up and she could establish her sexuality; because as people we're very compatible. These are fundamentals and probably won't change but if I could Thanos snap my fingers just to see "what could happen" I'd be very interested.

How many times will you explain your story, your position, her position? Do you have a limit? Because it looks like you dont.  I wonder what deep seated need you are filling by explaining to strangers on the internet the story of you and your fiancée, over snd over.  What are you getting out of it?

No answer required.

[Villanelle]

You *should* feel like garbage if you continue to give her what even you admit is almost certainly false hope.  She may be angry, but setting her free is the kind thing to do.  Continuing to dangle hope that you know is the slimmest of chances is a garbage thing to do.  Yet you want to do it because it is the *easier* (but still hard, yes), thing to do.  That's cowardly, and it unkind to her. 

So if you don't want to do the garbage thing, don't prevent her from moving on, like she almost certainly should.  You are confusing "hard and sad" with "mean and garbage-y", when in this case, not only are they not the same, they are opposites. 

And yet again, what does leaving that dangle of hope into your speech accomplish, other than making this slightly easier for you in that moment?  Does NOT saying it close any doors permanently?  No, it does not.  So they only thing it accomplishes is some short term easing of bad feelings, and some long term damage to both of you. 

[KBecks]

She needs to be given the opportunity to meet a man who wants marriage and is ready for marriage soon.  You are not there right now.  That is OK! 

A break for her will hurt her, but she will recover and get on with her life.  And that is what she needs to do.  She can't find her husband if she is waiting around for you when you are not ready.

I had a boyfriend once tell me that I needed someone to marry and have babies with.  He made it very clear that he was not that guy.  I appreciated it in the long run.  It's not good to waste your time and emotional energy with people who have different goals than you do.

And I've said that- I've said you can definitely find someone whose goals line up with yours-I know how important it is for you to have kids in this timeframe and be married. She just says she doesn't want anyone else etc etc. I've tried to make it clear we have different goals.

You have to be strong and rip the band aid off then.  She will be OK. So will you.

Also, you cheated on her when you were dating?  Then she decided not to have sex anymore.  Get out of her life and let her move on. She thinks you are unreliable and she seems to be right about that.  Cut the cord.  It's too bad she doesn't have the guts to dump you.  She should have.

[zoochadookdook]

Not saying it does not close any doors; I get it. I just expect the "my sister and her husband broke up for a year and ended up getting married after-could that happen" question comes through.

I'm just trying to get my thoughts/words straightened out before tomorrow night. Tomorrow in general is a big day.

I don't want to break up. I don't want to stay in this holding pattern. I don't want to get married. Pick one and roll with it.

I have my consoling tonight and a big line that stuck with me is "there are no wrong choices you just have to pick one". I don't know why my mind and thoughts and feelings are so aligned with a sense of duty to a girl who isn't my wife/I don't have kids with etc-but it's almost crazy how much I care about her well being. I understand though.

[zoochadookdook]

She needs to be given the opportunity to meet a man who wants marriage and is ready for marriage soon.  You are not there right now.  That is OK! 

A break for her will hurt her, but she will recover and get on with her life.  And that is what she needs to do.  She can't find her husband if she is waiting around for you when you are not ready.

I had a boyfriend once tell me that I needed someone to marry and have babies with.  He made it very clear that he was not that guy.  I appreciated it in the long run.  It's not good to waste your time and emotional energy with people who have different goals than you do.

And I've said that- I've said you can definitely find someone whose goals line up with yours-I know how important it is for you to have kids in this timeframe and be married. She just says she doesn't want anyone else etc etc. I've tried to make it clear we have different goals.

You have to be strong and rip the band aid off then.  She will be OK. So will you.

Also, you cheated on her when you were dating?  Then she decided not to have sex anymore.  Get out of her life and let her move on.

Yeah I'm more worried about her well being than mine; there's a name for it (worrying about things you won't be able to control out of feeling obligations).

Yep that's way back in the beginning. Several months in. I was a shitty kid. Might have something to do with this overdeveloped sense of duty towards her.

[zoochadookdook]

She needs to be given the opportunity to meet a man who wants marriage and is ready for marriage soon.  You are not there right now.  That is OK! 

A break for her will hurt her, but she will recover and get on with her life.  And that is what she needs to do.  She can't find her husband if she is waiting around for you when you are not ready.

I had a boyfriend once tell me that I needed someone to marry and have babies with.  He made it very clear that he was not that guy.  I appreciated it in the long run.  It's not good to waste your time and emotional energy with people who have different goals than you do.

And I've said that- I've said you can definitely find someone whose goals line up with yours-I know how important it is for you to have kids in this timeframe and be married. She just says she doesn't want anyone else etc etc. I've tried to make it clear we have different goals.

You have to be strong and rip the band aid off then.  She will be OK. So will you.

Also, you cheated on her when you were dating?  Then she decided not to have sex anymore.  Get out of her life and let her move on.

Yeah I'm more worried about her well being than mine; there's a name for it (worrying about things you won't be able to control out of feeling obligations).

Yep that's way back in the beginning. Several months in. I was a shitty kid. Might have something to do with this overdeveloped sense of duty towards her. Since then I've literally based everything I could around her. Bought the house she wanted to move into. Make her dinner/do food runs all the time. Pay the bills. My therapy lady described it as I almost viewed her as a child.

[KBecks]

It sounds totally unhealthy for both of you.  I'm sorry, but go fix it.

[Villanelle]

Worrying about how to respond to all her counters and questions is why I advised having a very basic message and repeating it frequently, no matter what direction she tried to drag you.  She mentions that couple she knew that broke up and got back together; you repeat your message, even if it doesn't directly address what she has just said. "I know this is hard, but it's simply not going to work." "But what if blah blah blah."  "The relationship has run its course and it's time for us to move on."  "But maybe in 6 months..." "We've tried what we can, and it's clear to me that we need to end things." 

You aren't obligated to directly address all of her attempts to dodge and change your mind, and in fact it is far better if you don't.  If you allow her to get you into specifics, she has things she can argue and rationalize.  Don't do that.  After a few cycles, it's not only okay, but best if you say, "I understnad you are upset, but nothing you say is going to change this, and I think I've said all that can be said.  Nothing productive will come from continuing to talk about this, so I'm going to wish you the best and leave."  And then walk out, even if she's begging and pleading behind you.  And remind yourself that this is best, for her and for you.

[BicycleB]

Yeah I'm more worried about her well being than mine;

She is not worried about your well being. This imbalance automatically means you should never ever ever ever ever marry this person.

Such a feeling imbalance is really common when you're being gaslighted. You're being gaslighted. GTFO. (O means "out".)

[marble_faun]

A line from the Book of the Samurai comes to mind:

"In the words of the ancients, one should make his decisions within the space of seven breaths.... It is a matter of being determined and having the spirit to break right through to the other side."

It's time to inhale, exhale, and punch through the wall so that your life can progress.


(1) Girlfriend.

You need a clean break.  Make it clear that the relationship is ending and you are both now free to see other people.

If you leave the door open even a bit, she will cling to hope and won't let go.  You will prevent her from moving on, and this will become an ongoing source of emotional torture. 

Sure, I suppose if y'all are truly meant to be, you will find your way back to each other some day. But by no means should you tell her that you are entertaining this as a possibility.


(2) Job.

It sounds like, best-case scenario, a counter-offer could bump you to the top of your earning potential at the current company.  Meanwhile the new company is offering lots of opportunities for growth. If you stay at your current job, you'd be cutting your career off at the knees.

Why not go into the meeting with your boss prepared to resign? Again, make a clean break instead of dragging this out with rounds of discussion and negotiation.


Break on through. Enter the future!

Good luck.

[Psychstache]

Is it limbo if we aren't in contact/treating it as a break up? I mean that's the thing- I'm not going to say "oh stay in the house a year while I go work down there and then I'll be cool"

I'm going to say something like "I love you but we can't stay in limbo like this. It's not a situation where anything will change and it's unfair to both of us. I'm selling/renting the house. I'm taking the job in TX. Neither of us have made any ground on meeting the others needs in the last x months in the relationship and we need to separate. I'm open to leaving a door open once we've had time to figure ourselves out apart but right now this is what is going to happen. "

Just leave off that last sentence.  What purpose does it serve?  To soften the blow?  That should NOT be your goal right now.

Look, even if you don't say that last part, it's not as though you are forbidden from getting back together if you don't throw that in.  It is NOT a kindess to either her or you. 

It is almost certainly going to be a TERRIBLE idea, but if, in a year, you want to get back together with her and you feel everyone has "figured out" whatever it is you think would solve all this, you can get back together with her without have stipulated that fact in the break up.  So it serves no purpose other than to assuage your guilt about breaking up with her, and leading her on and preventing her (and you) from moving forward with the mentality that this is over. 

I, and everyone here, can tell you why it's a terrible idea to say that. Can you tell us what GOOD it actually serves?  What it accomplishes that is healthy and valuable?

I, and everyone here, can tell you why it's a terrible idea to say that. Can you tell us what GOOD it actually serves?  What it accomplishes that is healthy and valuable? 

Okay, it's a teeny tiny bit possible you get back together.  It's still just as possible if you don't say that.  Unless you think not saying it will allow her to move on, and you are trying to prevent that.  In which case you are kind of a dick, and I don't think you are.

If they truly break up and have no talk about leaving a door open, they won't be able to get back together in a year, because a year from now she will be balls deep into wedding planning with the new guy she found to have a wedding and babies with.

[six-car-habit]

***But you are confusing gentleness with kindness.  They are not the same.  it is cruel--yes, you are being cruel to her (and to yourself, but it seems like you frame everything in terms of her) but avoiding concrete answers and unambiguous words and direct conversations. ****

 Quote from above put this song into my head  -

Cruel to be Kind
(originally by Nick Lowe)

Oh, I can't take another heartache
Though you say you're my friend
I'm at my wits end
You say your love is bona fide
But that don't coincide
With the things that you do
And when I ask you to be nice
You say you gotta be

Cruel to be kind, in the right measure
Cruel to be kind, it's a very good sign
Cruel to be kind, means that I love you
Baby (you gotta be cruel)
You gotta be cruel to be kind

Well I do my best to understand dear
But you still mystify, and I wanna know why
I pick myself up off the ground
To have you knock me back down
Again and again
And when I ask you to explain
You say you gotta be

Cruel to be kind, in the right measure
Cruel to be kind, it's a very good sign
Cruel to be kind, means that I love you
Baby (you gotta be cruel)
You gotta be cruel to be kind

Well I do my best to understand dear
But you still mystify, and I wanna know why
I pick myself up off the ground
To have you knock me back down
Again and again
And when I ask you to explain
You say you gotta be

Cruel to be kind, in the right measure
Cruel to be kind, it's a very good sign
Cruel to be kind, means that I love you
Baby (you gotta be cruel)
You gotta be cruel to be kind

(Cruel to be kind), in the right measure
(Cruel to be kind), it's a very, very, very good sign
(Cruel to be kind), means that I love you
Baby (you gotta be cruel)
You gotta be cruel to be kind


Invest 4 minutes of your life - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0l3QWUXVho

[zoochadookdook]

Well sleeping on the couch currently. Lastnight she asked me about the job and the house and i said I'm probably taking it/selling the house


She broke down saying we should break up. I'm obviously just leaving and giving up. I don't want to get married and she hasn't been listening.

It's just sad. She sent me a whole story from a family friends husband who just took care of his wife as she died from cancer and talked about how she would do that for me. The thing is I love her enough that I'd do that for her-but that's what she associates marriage with-being there no matter what to old age.


Idk I'm going to the boss at the current job this morning. Just a super weird sad mood.

[Roots&Wings]

It is very sad when someone you love is not on the same page with a fundamental issue. You simply want different things and neither's needs are being met. The kindest thing you can do is to take the new job and give each other some space to move forward in your lives, as you are currently going in unproductive circles.

Ultimately you want her to find the right guy to marry/have kids/be there no matter what till old age. And you should find your ideal partner too.

[Raenia]

Good developments, sounds like she finally heard what you were saying.  Of course it hurts, but at least now she's not living in fantasy-land where you'll magically change your mind and everything will go as she planned.

Here's the thing you need to understand: Love IS NOT ENOUGH to make a good marriage.  Love is fantastic, and I'd never get married without it, but it is not the only factor, and I would argue, not even the most important one.  It doesn't matter how much you love someone if your life goals aren't aligned.

My sister got divorced last year, despite still being 100% in love with her husband, and he with her, because of this exact issue.  She had always known she wanted children, and he wasn't sure but figured he'd want them 'soon.'  Three years later, he realized 'soon' was 'maybe never,' he couldn't be what she wanted in her life, and they had to separate if they were going to be happy long term.  This is worse than if they'd never been married at all - she's spent three years of her life following him where his career took him, putting her career on hold, has much less savings than she otherwise would, had to pay all the legal fees for the divorce, and has a spotty employment history to boot.  Don't let this story be your life.

I'd advise you to continue sleeping on the couch until she's moved out.  This will cement that it is really over, and not just a fight.  Does she have a timeline for moving back to her mom's?

[KBecks]

Focus on the job stuff today.  Get that job in Texas locked up.  That will help you have your future to look forward to.  Then, sell your house.  It IS over with the girlfriend.  Now you just have to work through the transition.  Stay strong and look to the future, not the past.

[zoochadookdook]

As far as her timeline-she's looking to move right away and mentioned cutting off all contact for at least a few months. The issue is she has a lot of stuff here and can't take it all. I'm probably buying some but also thinking of hiring a moving company for a day just to expedite.

It's just sad. I want to comfort her and such but there's really no middle ground here. Currently at work finishing up a proposal then will get my boss in the office.

[Kris]

This is definitely good. I’m sure it was a sucky conversation to have. But remember why people call this “ripping off the bandaid.” It hurts like hell for a shorter amount of time, and then you’re done.

Before last night, I’d characterize what you were doing as looking at the bandaid. Maybe picking at the edges a little, but that’s it.

She finally had no choice but to hear you. Notice that she was still trying to manipulate you: she said you should just break up because you aren’t even trying. That she would take care of you when you had terminal cancer — which, I’m sorry, sending you that story of true spousal devotion was just weak. And manipulative. She wants you to feel like shit so you will stay. That’s not spousal devotion. At all.

Focus on moving forward. Someone needed to do this. You did it. Don’t let her guilt you into trying to put the bandaid back on. It won’t stick, and it will just be ugly and uncomfortable. And it will only have to come off again, in the end.

[former player]

I'm sorry it hurts.  It will get better.

The issue is she has a lot of stuff here and can't take it all. I'm probably buying some but also thinking of hiring a moving company for a day just to expedite.

You are moving a long distance, moving things a long distance is very expensive, and I can't see that having your ex's belongings around you as you start your new life is a good idea.  By all means help with getting your ex's belongings out of your house by hiring a moving company, but that doesn't mean you have to weigh yourself down with those belongings or dealing with what is done with them after they leave the house.  Ways of disposing of household goods include local auction houses and ebay/facebook/craigslist for things worth selling, charity collections (Vietnam vets), charity shops for things which are still useful but not worth your ex selling herself.  I particularly recommend women's shelters as needing household goods for women who are moving on from the shelter to new lives.  If all the disposal will take your ex more time than you have for putting the house on the market, your ex finding (and paying for) temporary storage is the solution.

[marble_faun]

Well sleeping on the couch currently. Lastnight she asked me about the job and the house and i said I'm probably taking it/selling the house


She broke down saying we should break up. I'm obviously just leaving and giving up. I don't want to get married and she hasn't been listening.

This must be incredibly hard for you both. But it sounds like she is beginning to accept the situation. That's good -- the sooner this happens, the sooner she can move on with her life.

You have to ignore the guilt-trip rhetoric about you "giving up."  There were irreconcilable differences on both sides.  Someone had to finally stick a fork in it.

You'll get through this.

[zoochadookdook]

I'm sorry it hurts.  It will get better.

The issue is she has a lot of stuff here and can't take it all. I'm probably buying some but also thinking of hiring a moving company for a day just to expedite.

You are moving a long distance, moving things a long distance is very expensive, and I can't see that having your ex's belongings around you as you start your new life is a good idea.  By all means help with getting your ex's belongings out of your house by hiring a moving company, but that doesn't mean you have to weigh yourself down with those belongings or dealing with what is done with them after they leave the house.  Ways of disposing of household goods include local auction houses and ebay/facebook/craigslist for things worth selling, charity collections (Vietnam vets), charity shops for things which are still useful but not worth your ex selling herself.  I particularly recommend women's shelters as needing household goods for women who are moving on from the shelter to new lives.  If all the disposal will take your ex more time than you have for putting the house on the market, your ex finding (and paying for) temporary storage is the solution.

I just feel responsible for her feelings.

She has some nice furniture and such; but I would be purchasing it to furnish with the house for sale/out of kindness-not to take with me. She's definitely a home maker and all her stuff she likes/hand picked so the fact she won't have space for it is a bit difficult. I'll have to discuss it further.

[zoochadookdook]

This is definitely good. I’m sure it was a sucky conversation to have. But remember why people call this “ripping off the bandaid.” It hurts like hell for a shorter amount of time, and then you’re done.

Before last night, I’d characterize what you were doing as looking at the bandaid. Maybe picking at the edges a little, but that’s it.

She finally had no choice but to hear you. Notice that she was still trying to manipulate you: she said you should just break up because you aren’t even trying. That she would take care of you when you had terminal cancer — which, I’m sorry, sending you that story of true spousal devotion was just weak. And manipulative. She wants you to feel like shit so you will stay. That’s not spousal devotion. At all.

Focus on moving forward. Someone needed to do this. You did it. Don’t let her guilt you into trying to put the bandaid back on. It won’t stick, and it will just be ugly and uncomfortable. And it will only have to come off again, in the end.

I mean that's it; I don't have to be married to care deeply about her. I'd take care of her if she was sick-shoot I have for years. I think she associates marriage with that unequivocal bond though.