Author Topic: 7 year relationship. No sexual desire. She wants to get married. Any Counselors?  (Read 66041 times)

ysette9

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I don't know if your girlfriend is anywhere on the ace spectrum, but I am, and your story make me wonder if that might play some part in your situation.  There are plenty of asexual, gray-ace, etc. people for whom attraction and desire are dependent on very specific factors/only apply in specific situations, and who can go long periods without sex and then happily reengage with it.  Maybe this is the case for her, maybe it isn't, but I wanted to offer this perspective.  I am asexual, and I have a girlfriend who is not.  We are not intimate (although I know this is not the case for all ace folks.) Our relationship works for us at this time. 

If that fact changed, and my girlfriend came to feel that mutual intimacy was very important and necessary to a relationship, we would ultimately have to break up.  This wouldn't be anyone's "fault," not really-- not mine for not wanting to engage in intimacy, not hers for wanting something very personal and fulfilling and important for most humans, not out of lack of respect or love or willingness to make the other happy, but because our fundamental needs have become mismatched.

Your girlfriend's reasons don't really matter, in this case-- whether she's lost her sex drive, a matter of personal conviction, religious mores, she only wants to get it on in the confines of holy matrimony, whatever.  They are all good, fine personal reasons to not get intimate, and you can love her and respect her wishes.

And your reasoning-- wanting to be intimate and know you share intimate chemistry and compatibility before tying the knot-- is a very good, valid, fine reason too, and to be respected too.   

This isn't a matter of 'fault' or even being unrealistic-- your girlfriend may be perfectly accurate in her judgment that she'll be able to happily and enthusiastically be with you after you've exchanged vows.  But you're mismatched, fundamentally incompatible on this point, and couching it in terms of "if only she'd stop being selfish and do XYZ for you" or "if you really REALLY cared about her you'd stop being selfish and just propose already" is only going to hurt the both of you.  I think you should take a break from each other, at minimum, and work from there.
Great perspective. Thanks for sharing.

And now Iíve learned a new term for today: ďace spectrumĒ.

Inaya

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I'm not sure if anyone's asked this (apologies if so), but what was her plan if you didn't propose to her? Irrespective of the whole no-sex thing (which she didn't think/know was even an issue until just now), what was she going to do if you didn't pick up on her poorly communicated (until now) desire for marriage? Before she knew that she could even use sex as a bargaining chip.

Was she planning to leave you if you didn't propose on the cruise? Like... if she needed you to propose to "prove" your commitment--what if you didn't provide that proof? What was her endgame? The rules are different now the she has leverage, but what was her mind like prior to knowing she had that leverage?

zoochadookdook

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I'm not sure if anyone's asked this (apologies if so), but what was her plan if you didn't propose to her? Irrespective of the whole no-sex thing (which she didn't think/know was even an issue until just now), what was she going to do if you didn't pick up on her poorly communicated (until now) desire for marriage? Before she knew that she could even use sex as a bargaining chip.

Was she planning to leave you if you didn't propose on the cruise? Like... if she needed you to propose to "prove" your commitment--what if you didn't provide that proof? What was her endgame? The rules are different now the she has leverage, but what was her mind like prior to knowing she had that leverage?

I think she hadnt really contemplated it as an option. I assume now she's thinking if I cant get on board with marriage she will have to leave. We didn't really feel like fighting tonight.

zoochadookdook

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Hey all so neither of us wanted to fight tonight. I dont believe the cruise is refundable/transferrable so I'm thinking we're going on a trip. I have no doubt we need some time apart or to set a date by which we establish breaking up or similar.

ysette9

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Hey all so neither of us wanted to fight tonight. I dont believe the cruise is refundable/transferrable so I'm thinking we're going on a trip. I have no doubt we need some time apart or to set a date by which we establish breaking up or similar.
That is a big step for you to be saying that and it must not be easy. I just want to recognize the hard work you are doing here.

zoochadookdook

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Hey all so neither of us wanted to fight tonight. I dont believe the cruise is refundable/transferrable so I'm thinking we're going on a trip. I have no doubt we need some time apart or to set a date by which we establish breaking up or similar.
That is a big step for you to be saying that and it must not be easy. I just want to recognize the hard work you are doing here.

I mentioned to her a few times I'd rather she go with her sister/friends but she just kind of brushed it off. I did tell her I didn't want it to be awkward/to go if it was just focused on engagement and we did need to set realistic dates of what we need and such in the relationship or decide when to call it.

MDfive21

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I think the OP is just engaging in the Sunk Cost fallacy.  That's a hard one to work through. 

http://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
Yes, and he has spent his entire formative adult life with this personal, so he has no other experience for comparison. He doesnít *know* how much better a better relationship could be because he has only experienced this disfunction. It is hard to appreciate what youíve never experienced.

i've made this mistake before. 
"we've come so far, we can't quit now.  i can't do all this 'work' and let some other guy reap the benefits!  i have to see this through to the end"



zoochadookdook

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I think the OP is just engaging in the Sunk Cost fallacy.  That's a hard one to work through. 

http://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
Yes, and he has spent his entire formative adult life with this personal, so he has no other experience for comparison. He doesnít *know* how much better a better relationship could be because he has only experienced this disfunction. It is hard to appreciate what youíve never experienced.

i've made this mistake before. 
"we've come so far, we can't quit now.  i can't do all this 'work' and let some other guy reap the benefits!  i have to see this through to the end"

Yeah fair point, and it seems like a sound rationalization but I'm making it clear to her I am unhappy/unfulfilled in our relationship. I'm not set against marriage but there's some serious work/changes/damage control before I can get to that level. Probably more time than she wants to wait but that's her right as well.

simonsez

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One more thing.

Not ďworking towards marriageĒ (whatever that means) is not the problem in your relationship, it is the symptom. You need to treat the root cause, not the symptom.

I think she wants to see that i'm dedicated to getting our relationship to marriage-as she always planned to be married some day-thus dating with intent.
I bet you anything that she will start dating someone else after you break up and she will get engaged, married and have a baby within 2 years. If she wants to get married, she can. Just not to you, since you are incompatible. There's no sense in entering an unhappy marriege with your eyes wide open.

I have no doubt she could!
Well okay then.  Set that bird free.

zoochadookdook

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One more thing.

Not ďworking towards marriageĒ (whatever that means) is not the problem in your relationship, it is the symptom. You need to treat the root cause, not the symptom.

I think she wants to see that i'm dedicated to getting our relationship to marriage-as she always planned to be married some day-thus dating with intent.
I bet you anything that she will start dating someone else after you break up and she will get engaged, married and have a baby within 2 years. If she wants to get married, she can. Just not to you, since you are incompatible. There's no sense in entering an unhappy marriege with your eyes wide open.

I have no doubt she could!
Well okay then.  Set that bird free.

We're going to have this trip to reflect and get on the same page. Hoping to have a good bit of clarity by the time we get back.

mm1970

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Quote
Yes, this is the project manager in me coming out, but you should have an idea of what things you can reasonable try next, a reasonable timeline for that, and identify on your head criteria by which you can judge whether it is worth continuing to sink time and effort into this or cut your losses and move on.
PMs, unite!  This was very good.

Also with the sunk costs.

And Kris was spot on.

zoochadookdook

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Quote
Yes, this is the project manager in me coming out, but you should have an idea of what things you can reasonable try next, a reasonable timeline for that, and identify on your head criteria by which you can judge whether it is worth continuing to sink time and effort into this or cut your losses and move on.
PMs, unite!  This was very good.

Also with the sunk costs.

And Kris was spot on.

Ironically enough my degree is in MIS and I'm looking for jr PM positions/business/system analyst positions lol. Yeah we're going to set timelines together. Already brought it up so she's aware neither of us is interested in wasting time         

ysette9

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Great! Youíre moving down the right path then. Good luck.

Chaplin

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Hey all so neither of us wanted to fight tonight. I dont believe the cruise is refundable/transferrable so I'm thinking we're going on a trip.

That's more sunk-cost thinking. No matter what you do, you don't get the money back, so whether you go or not should be based on whether or not it's a good idea to go.

I have no doubt we need some time apart or to set a date by which we establish breaking up or similar.

And there's the answer to whether you should go or not.

I'm not sure why I'm contributing to this thread. It's a bit like watching a movie and yelling at the character on the screen not to go into the scary house but they can't hear you and do it anyway.

So much wisdom has been offered in the responses. You asked for help and advice and you have received a wealth of well though-out, well supported responses. I don't think I've seen a thread with such consistent responses.

ysette9

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@zoochadookdook - thinking of you. I hope you are making good progress. Good luck.

iris lily

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@zoochadookdook - thinking of you. I hope you are making good progress. Good luck.

I think it is fine that the OP has left this thread for a while to think over its contents.

oP, I encourage you to stay away for a while. You have heard everything we have to say. You dont owe anyone feedback! But in a while, give us an update. Be well.

Boofinator

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OP is probably on his cruise. I too wish him the best of luck on figuring out his life path.

zoochadookdook

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Hey all on day 5. Just got some spotty wifi in caracoa. Trip is good. Food everywhere. Burnt to crisp. I'll have a  better update when I return the 26
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 12:47:49 PM by zoochadookdook »

ysette9

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Hey all on day 5. Just got some spotty wifi in caracoa. Trip is good. Food everywhere. Burnt to crisp. Same old cordial relationship. I'll have a  better update when I return the 26
Nice to hear from you. Enjoy your trip and WEAR SUNSCREEN. (Plenty of cancerous and pre-cancerous things removed from many of my family members so Iím extra cautious)

Enigma

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Re: 7 year relationship. No sexual desire. She wants to get married.
« Reply #369 on: April 23, 2019, 11:14:51 AM »
I am emotionally commited to her, as a provider (she works... and as a person. She doesn't care if i want to play video games and is perfectly content to spend the weekend in binging netflix. She and I are pretty compatible, we never really fight or argue and we have a billion inside (stupid) jokes. We have a life together and that's been enough to focus on.

I would have to say that she sounds pretty remarkable.  Maybe it is the billion inside jokes or that she lets you get away with doing your own thing.  You have allowed your relationship to become a friendship.  No different than hanging out with the guys.  I failed to see the spark of romance that you are bringing to the table.  Talking about the lack of sex directly to her isn't going to do anything but push her further away.  Never settle for mediocrity.

If you want more sex you increase the amount of intimacy in the relationship.  The amount of hugs, kisses, 'I love you's'...

If you just want to end the relationship; well, you have enough reasons to end it.  Your next relationships are directly related to this one.  The first relationship rarely works out, but I recall that tends to be everyone's regret later in life.

BicycleB

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Just read the OP after skimming a page or two of recent posts. Not a counselor, just a guy who's had a few relationships (with wonderful ladies, luckily). I hope your trip has resolved all problems between you two!

If it hasn't: It sounds like you two had a lot of sex for a few months as 18- to 19-year-olds, then you slept with somebody else and the Original Woman hasn't had sex with you since, which is now about seven years later. To me it sounds like you made a mistake that she isn't truly going to forgive you for. Ever since you've each been hoping for a magic way to heal the breach, but it's not going to happen. Cut the cord.

If you're afraid to quit because you might be lonely, or look like a heel, or Make Her Feel Bad, or whatever... well, facing the fear of leaving will hurt at first, but then you'll get better. It's like an investment, it will pay off hugely over time.

Good luck in any case.

PS. Pro tip: When you break off a relationship, budget at least four evenings in which you will listen but not say anything about your side. She will likely need to grieve and vent. If you can listen to that appreciatively without arguing back, you have a good chance to transition to a friendly post-relationship state of mutual feeling. In any case you will have a plan for getting through the initial stage.

This particular lady sounds like she might hold a grudge or issue retributive emotional punishment regardless. But you can try, and you will be better for doing so.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 02:37:55 PM by BicycleB »

partgypsy

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I have to add, if her plan is to go off bc and then get intimate, please makes sure you are using an alternate method of contraception! Unless you are ok to get married because you knocked her up.

Psychstache

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OP, I don't know if podcasts are your thing, but I was listening to "Work Life' by Adam Grant and a recent episode made me think about you and I wanted to pass it along in case you might find it helpful.

Check out Season 2 Episode 7 "Bouncing Back From Rejection". It's not perfectly analogous to your situation, but I think there's enough there that it might help you process some more in a productive way.

Hope the burns are healing up!

zoochadookdook

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Hey all brief update. We're getting back in the swing of work and such and have talked a bit more.

She's come to terms that she has to change or the relationships not going to work. She stopped BC sunday night so I guess we'll see if that leads anywhere, However she wants to know if A)I'll want kids/ B)I'll want to be married.

Personally I'm not opposed to either-but i'm financially terrified of kids. I think both of those are things I'd rather advance or establish solid income before pursuing and I've conveyed that to her. It just hasn't been a "I have to do these things asap" deal for me. The kids I'm not sure either way. I've never felt I've needed them but I've also never felt I've hated them. She says that's something she has to have-i mean she works in childcare and has for 8 years so I understand where that's coming from. She doesn't want me to have them just for her sake and resent my life which was interesting to hear.

What it's going to come down to is if I can do some soul searching and really get some definite answers on what I want. I've put her as a priority so long i'm not aware of what I actually want (aside from making enough to retire soon and competing a bit in sports/finding a self employment niche that I enjoy and can support me/lifewise). We're still together although as of now. Counseling on Thursday.

Gained 15lbs on the cruise btw. Royal Caribbean has some solid food. Hope all is well with all ya'll


marty998

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*deleted*

I shouldnít shit post here

ysette9

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Hey all brief update. We're getting back in the swing of work and such and have talked a bit more.

She's come to terms that she has to change or the relationships not going to work. She stopped BC sunday night so I guess we'll see if that leads anywhere, However she wants to know if A)I'll want kids/ B)I'll want to be married.

Personally I'm not opposed to either-but i'm financially terrified of kids. I think both of those are things I'd rather advance or establish solid income before pursuing and I've conveyed that to her. It just hasn't been a "I have to do these things asap" deal for me. The kids I'm not sure either way. I've never felt I've needed them but I've also never felt I've hated them. She says that's something she has to have-i mean she works in childcare and has for 8 years so I understand where that's coming from. She doesn't want me to have them just for her sake and resent my life which was interesting to hear.

What it's going to come down to is if I can do some soul searching and really get some definite answers on what I want. I've put her as a priority so long i'm not aware of what I actually want (aside from making enough to retire soon and competing a bit in sports/finding a self employment niche that I enjoy and can support me/lifewise). We're still together although as of now. Counseling on Thursday.

Gained 15lbs on the cruise btw. Royal Caribbean has some solid food. Hope all is well with all ya'll
Welcome back. Good luck getting back into shape! I know what you mean about cruises and food. I hope your sunburn is healing.

I hope I donít come across as an ass here because that is not my intention, but I want to point out that it feels like your thinking on this whole conundrum has gone backwards when you were away. You arenít in a position to be answering her questions 1) and 2) without plugging the massive hole that is causing boat of your relationship to capsize. Deciding whether to have kids or whether you can afford them is a decision for someone in a strong, functional, committed relationship. You arenít in one of those right now.

With all due respect and I say this out of a position of caring for you and your well- being, read back on what was discussed before you left for your cruise.

I hope the counseling session is productive.

englishteacheralex

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Hey all brief update. We're getting back in the swing of work and such and have talked a bit more.

She's come to terms that she has to change or the relationships not going to work. She stopped BC sunday night so I guess we'll see if that leads anywhere, However she wants to know if A)I'll want kids/ B)I'll want to be married.

Personally I'm not opposed to either-but i'm financially terrified of kids. I think both of those are things I'd rather advance or establish solid income before pursuing and I've conveyed that to her. It just hasn't been a "I have to do these things asap" deal for me. The kids I'm not sure either way. I've never felt I've needed them but I've also never felt I've hated them. She says that's something she has to have-i mean she works in childcare and has for 8 years so I understand where that's coming from. She doesn't want me to have them just for her sake and resent my life which was interesting to hear.

What it's going to come down to is if I can do some soul searching and really get some definite answers on what I want. I've put her as a priority so long i'm not aware of what I actually want (aside from making enough to retire soon and competing a bit in sports/finding a self employment niche that I enjoy and can support me/lifewise). We're still together although as of now. Counseling on Thursday.

Gained 15lbs on the cruise btw. Royal Caribbean has some solid food. Hope all is well with all ya'll
Welcome back. Good luck getting back into shape! I know what you mean about cruises and food. I hope your sunburn is healing.

I hope I donít come across as an ass here because that is not my intention, but I want to point out that it feels like your thinking on this whole conundrum has gone backwards when you were away. You arenít in a position to be answering her questions 1) and 2) without plugging the massive hole that is causing boat of your relationship to capsize. Deciding whether to have kids or whether you can afford them is a decision for someone in a strong, functional, committed relationship. You arenít in one of those right now.

With all due respect and I say this out of a position of caring for you and your well- being, read back on what was discussed before you left for your cruise.

I hope the counseling session is productive.

Is it, though? In my opinion, responsibly deciding whether you want kids is something you mostly make up your mind about as an individual, and then find somebody who shares your orientation as a partner. If more people would do this, fewer of those tragic broke-up-because-one-wanted-kids-and-the-other-didn't stories would happen. If you don't want kids, don't partner up with someone who DOES want them.

So I think it's a pretty important consideration for OP, regardless of his relationship status.


partgypsy

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Hey all brief update. We're getting back in the swing of work and such and have talked a bit more.

She's come to terms that she has to change or the relationships not going to work. She stopped BC sunday night so I guess we'll see if that leads anywhere, However she wants to know if A)I'll want kids/ B)I'll want to be married.

Personally I'm not opposed to either-but i'm financially terrified of kids. I think both of those are things I'd rather advance or establish solid income before pursuing and I've conveyed that to her. It just hasn't been a "I have to do these things asap" deal for me. The kids I'm not sure either way. I've never felt I've needed them but I've also never felt I've hated them. She says that's something she has to have-i mean she works in childcare and has for 8 years so I understand where that's coming from. She doesn't want me to have them just for her sake and resent my life which was interesting to hear.

What it's going to come down to is if I can do some soul searching and really get some definite answers on what I want. I've put her as a priority so long i'm not aware of what I actually want (aside from making enough to retire soon and competing a bit in sports/finding a self employment niche that I enjoy and can support me/lifewise). We're still together although as of now. Counseling on Thursday.

Gained 15lbs on the cruise btw. Royal Caribbean has some solid food. Hope all is well with all ya'll
Welcome back. Good luck getting back into shape! I know what you mean about cruises and food. I hope your sunburn is healing.

I hope I donít come across as an ass here because that is not my intention, but I want to point out that it feels like your thinking on this whole conundrum has gone backwards when you were away. You arenít in a position to be answering her questions 1) and 2) without plugging the massive hole that is causing boat of your relationship to capsize. Deciding whether to have kids or whether you can afford them is a decision for someone in a strong, functional, committed relationship. You arenít in one of those right now.

With all due respect and I say this out of a position of caring for you and your well- being, read back on what was discussed before you left for your cruise.

I hope the counseling session is productive.

Is it, though? In my opinion, responsibly deciding whether you want kids is something you mostly make up your mind about as an individual, and then find somebody who shares your orientation as a partner. If more people would do this, fewer of those tragic broke-up-because-one-wanted-kids-and-the-other-didn't stories would happen. If you don't want kids, don't partner up with someone who DOES want them.

So I think it's a pretty important consideration for OP, regardless of his relationship status.

I agree with this. It sounds like both are dealbreakers for girlfriend. It's good for both of them to figure out how they feel about this' i.e. if op feels pretty strongly against either of those things, he should let her know. If they are on the same page, I mean, their relationship might still not make it, but at least not for those reasons.

ysette9

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Hey all brief update. We're getting back in the swing of work and such and have talked a bit more.

She's come to terms that she has to change or the relationships not going to work. She stopped BC sunday night so I guess we'll see if that leads anywhere, However she wants to know if A)I'll want kids/ B)I'll want to be married.

Personally I'm not opposed to either-but i'm financially terrified of kids. I think both of those are things I'd rather advance or establish solid income before pursuing and I've conveyed that to her. It just hasn't been a "I have to do these things asap" deal for me. The kids I'm not sure either way. I've never felt I've needed them but I've also never felt I've hated them. She says that's something she has to have-i mean she works in childcare and has for 8 years so I understand where that's coming from. She doesn't want me to have them just for her sake and resent my life which was interesting to hear.

What it's going to come down to is if I can do some soul searching and really get some definite answers on what I want. I've put her as a priority so long i'm not aware of what I actually want (aside from making enough to retire soon and competing a bit in sports/finding a self employment niche that I enjoy and can support me/lifewise). We're still together although as of now. Counseling on Thursday.

Gained 15lbs on the cruise btw. Royal Caribbean has some solid food. Hope all is well with all ya'll
Welcome back. Good luck getting back into shape! I know what you mean about cruises and food. I hope your sunburn is healing.

I hope I donít come across as an ass here because that is not my intention, but I want to point out that it feels like your thinking on this whole conundrum has gone backwards when you were away. You arenít in a position to be answering her questions 1) and 2) without plugging the massive hole that is causing boat of your relationship to capsize. Deciding whether to have kids or whether you can afford them is a decision for someone in a strong, functional, committed relationship. You arenít in one of those right now.

With all due respect and I say this out of a position of caring for you and your well- being, read back on what was discussed before you left for your cruise.

I hope the counseling session is productive.

Is it, though? In my opinion, responsibly deciding whether you want kids is something you mostly make up your mind about as an individual, and then find somebody who shares your orientation as a partner. If more people would do this, fewer of those tragic broke-up-because-one-wanted-kids-and-the-other-didn't stories would happen. If you don't want kids, don't partner up with someone who DOES want them.

So I think it's a pretty important consideration for OP, regardless of his relationship status.
Thy is a fair critique. I think plenty of people know strongly in advance if they want kids or not and it is right to make that clear up front with a potential mate. Other people arenít so clear. Maybe it is because they just donít know whether they want to have kids yet. Maybe part of the indecision is that they arenít with the right person and do struggle to see themselves having that personís kids.

I clearly made that point poorly, but I stand behind my opinion that OP does not have a strong, commuted, functional romantic relationship and that is the first priority to sort out. Maybe a short cut is just acknowledging the differing values and cutting the losses short. Whether those values are marriage and kids or a healthy sexual relationship or valuing his needs as legitimate, whatever.

Milizard

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Sorry, I really think the time for this discussion was a long time ago.  Pretty sure it's too late to go back there.  What an odd relationship--all these negotiations before sex can happen 7 years into it.  At your age, don't you think a relationship where you both want to rip each other's clothes off would be more fun?  Is this going to be your future:  years of stalemate, followed by lengthy negotiations?
Sorry, there might be some tiny possibility of a future together after a parting of ways, and then coming together in a new way.  That's how I see it, take it as you wish.

BeanCounter

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I'm sorry OP. If you're contemplating everything in your relationship this much, you're just not meant to be together. I think you need to move on.
And if you both think that you're going to get married and then start having great sex and all will be well for the next 50 years, I'd think again. Lack of desire for sex only gets worse.

pbkmaine

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Please use condoms until you decide whether or not you wish to have children.

Hadilly

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WTF? Why is she going off birth control? If she gets pregnant, you are WAY more locked into this relationship. 

Speaking from personal and anecdotal experience, the fatigue and work related to kids is not particularly conducive to have a lot of energy and enthusiasm for sex.

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WTF? Why is she going off birth control? If she gets pregnant, you are WAY more locked into this relationship. 

Speaking from personal and anecdotal experience, the fatigue and work related to kids is not particularly conducive to have a lot of energy and enthusiasm for sex.
See earlier in the thread. The thought is that birth control may be one of the underlying reasons behind her lack of dec drive.

But I agree with others that in the unlikely event that the relationship picks up again, another form of birth control is absolutely essential.

sol

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If they start having sex, I'll wager she's pregnant in less than six months.  This whole situation smells like a trap. 

She desperately wants marriage and kids with him, he doesn't but has agreed she should go off birth control, now all she has to do is lay him once, on the right day, and she gets everything she wants and he's fucked.  It's classic.

Wear a condom every time, OP, and be sure to retain possession of used ones.  If you spill a single drop your life gets significantly more complicated and not necessarily in a good way.

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For once I agree with you Sol.  Ugh!

sol

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For once I agree with you Sol.  Ugh!

I'm so sorry.

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Considering how effective condoms are for BC, this should happen, even if they are both trying really hard not to have a child.

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Hey all brief update. We're getting back in the swing of work and such and have talked a bit more.

She's come to terms that she has to change or the relationships not going to work. She stopped BC sunday night so I guess we'll see if that leads anywhere, However she wants to know if A)I'll want kids/ B)I'll want to be married.

Personally I'm not opposed to either-but i'm financially terrified of kids. I think both of those are things I'd rather advance or establish solid income before pursuing and I've conveyed that to her. It just hasn't been a "I have to do these things asap" deal for me. The kids I'm not sure either way. I've never felt I've needed them but I've also never felt I've hated them. She says that's something she has to have-i mean she works in childcare and has for 8 years so I understand where that's coming from. She doesn't want me to have them just for her sake and resent my life which was interesting to hear.

What it's going to come down to is if I can do some soul searching and really get some definite answers on what I want. I've put her as a priority so long i'm not aware of what I actually want (aside from making enough to retire soon and competing a bit in sports/finding a self employment niche that I enjoy and can support me/lifewise). We're still together although as of now. Counseling on Thursday.

Gained 15lbs on the cruise btw. Royal Caribbean has some solid food. Hope all is well with all ya'll

People who decide not to have children don't always hate children. Very often not, I think. We just don't want to have any ourselves and give them the commitment they deserve.

As long as you are financially terrified of having children, it is not wise to try to get them. Wait until you think it is a natural next step or something to look foreward to.

zoochadookdook

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Hey all-

The reasoning behind her going off BC is to see if her zero libido is tied to that. If she had wanted to get pregnant she could have stopped taking it without telling me (fucked I know) and initiated. The thing is she hasn't had a libido for years and was happy to continue and advance the relationship without it as it just wasn't a issue for her.

Currently as it stands-she's looking for my fundamental values towards marriage and especially kids as those are musts for her. Without those aspects it's a 100% deal breaker (after this long she sees it as if I don't know if I want to have kids/marry her then when if ever-which I get as it'll have been 8 years this fall). Like it or not girls are on a 30s biological clock so if she doesn't see it as a future option with me it makes sense to seek out someone who does actively want kids. Regardless of the outcome I do need to decide both because in this relationship/in possible others-these are important fundamentals to agree on.

And yes-financially kids are scary. I handle most of the finances and don't make enough to support a child currently. I consider myself pretty frugal and am pursuing all sorts of side ventures/other jobs in order to secure a more flexible financial future. Her values are having a loving family even if it means living on less etc which is fine.


zoochadookdook

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Sorry, I really think the time for this discussion was a long time ago.  Pretty sure it's too late to go back there.  What an odd relationship--all these negotiations before sex can happen 7 years into it.  At your age, don't you think a relationship where you both want to rip each other's clothes off would be more fun?  Is this going to be your future:  years of stalemate, followed by lengthy negotiations?
Sorry, there might be some tiny possibility of a future together after a parting of ways, and then coming together in a new way.  That's how I see it, take it as you wish.

I feel like honeymoon vs lower phases are real in just about any functional relationship. That being said this is unique as it's not that we don't just have sex-she has no libido. She knows it's not normal but isn't sure whether or not is is fixable. The only hormonal thing she's taken is BC and aside from prior trauma due to our relationship it's possible that she's just become asexual over time.

Cool Friend

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If they start having sex, I'll wager she's pregnant in less than six months.  This whole situation smells like a trap. 

She desperately wants marriage and kids with him, he doesn't but has agreed she should go off birth control, now all she has to do is lay him once, on the right day, and she gets everything she wants and he's fucked.  It's classic.

Wear a condom every time, OP, and be sure to retain possession of used ones.  If you spill a single drop your life gets significantly more complicated and not necessarily in a good way.

Yeah I've been trying to give OP's partner the benefit of the doubt, but it looks like the only circumstance under which she'll have sex with him is if it will lead to pregnancy.  If true, she hasn't compromised at all, she's just found another angle to get what she wants without helping to fix the core problems of the relationship.

A similar thing happened to someone very close to me. When the relationship inevitably fell apart they were three back-to-back kids in.  He didn't want to have a fourth kid, so she went out and had another guy impregnate her instead.  Their lives were so enmeshed at this point he couldn't bring himself to leave. Obviously the exact same thing won't necessarily happen to you, just wanted to share a horror story of how this can sometimes go for people.

zoochadookdook

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Hey all brief update. We're getting back in the swing of work and such and have talked a bit more.

She's come to terms that she has to change or the relationships not going to work. She stopped BC sunday night so I guess we'll see if that leads anywhere, However she wants to know if A)I'll want kids/ B)I'll want to be married.

Personally I'm not opposed to either-but i'm financially terrified of kids. I think both of those are things I'd rather advance or establish solid income before pursuing and I've conveyed that to her. It just hasn't been a "I have to do these things asap" deal for me. The kids I'm not sure either way. I've never felt I've needed them but I've also never felt I've hated them. She says that's something she has to have-i mean she works in childcare and has for 8 years so I understand where that's coming from. She doesn't want me to have them just for her sake and resent my life which was interesting to hear.

What it's going to come down to is if I can do some soul searching and really get some definite answers on what I want. I've put her as a priority so long i'm not aware of what I actually want (aside from making enough to retire soon and competing a bit in sports/finding a self employment niche that I enjoy and can support me/lifewise). We're still together although as of now. Counseling on Thursday.

Gained 15lbs on the cruise btw. Royal Caribbean has some solid food. Hope all is well with all ya'll
Welcome back. Good luck getting back into shape! I know what you mean about cruises and food. I hope your sunburn is healing.

I hope I donít come across as an ass here because that is not my intention, but I want to point out that it feels like your thinking on this whole conundrum has gone backwards when you were away. You arenít in a position to be answering her questions 1) and 2) without plugging the massive hole that is causing boat of your relationship to capsize. Deciding whether to have kids or whether you can afford them is a decision for someone in a strong, functional, committed relationship. You arenít in one of those right now.

With all due respect and I say this out of a position of caring for you and your well- being, read back on what was discussed before you left for your cruise.

I hope the counseling session is productive.

Is it, though? In my opinion, responsibly deciding whether you want kids is something you mostly make up your mind about as an individual, and then find somebody who shares your orientation as a partner. If more people would do this, fewer of those tragic broke-up-because-one-wanted-kids-and-the-other-didn't stories would happen. If you don't want kids, don't partner up with someone who DOES want them.

So I think it's a pretty important consideration for OP, regardless of his relationship status.
Thy is a fair critique. I think plenty of people know strongly in advance if they want kids or not and it is right to make that clear up front with a potential mate. Other people arenít so clear. Maybe it is because they just donít know whether they want to have kids yet. Maybe part of the indecision is that they arenít with the right person and do struggle to see themselves having that personís kids.

I clearly made that point poorly, but I stand behind my opinion that OP does not have a strong, commuted, functional romantic relationship and that is the first priority to sort out. Maybe a short cut is just acknowledging the differing values and cutting the losses short. Whether those values are marriage and kids or a healthy sexual relationship or valuing his needs as legitimate, whatever.

Yeah she definitly does and I-well who knows. Like I MIGHT want them in the future but that's dependent on factors out of my control to a extent. I might feel a yearning for them once i've got a stable career and less young hobbies etc. I might once I spend more time with them. The fact is right now I don't have the definitive answer.

I think she may be viewing it as the short cut you mentioned. Like the trying make herself a sexual person despite not being one for years and years to her is enormous pressure (if she can't do it we can't have a happy relationship from my side)-and if our fundamental values don't line up on these things she needs from a life partner-we should pursue other people/break up. On the other hand if I do share said values then it makes it worth it to her to pursue this relationship as she wants that in the future. It's funny though-I've been sitting around wondering and just drawing blanks on marriage and such. I'm fairly practical and analytical-and from seeing my parents and hers divorce-you kind of understand no marriage is safe from a commitment standpoint. On the other hand, taking care of a family and loved ones is something I believe is a future goal in life.

zoochadookdook

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If they start having sex, I'll wager she's pregnant in less than six months.  This whole situation smells like a trap. 

She desperately wants marriage and kids with him, he doesn't but has agreed she should go off birth control, now all she has to do is lay him once, on the right day, and she gets everything she wants and he's fucked.  It's classic.

Wear a condom every time, OP, and be sure to retain possession of used ones.  If you spill a single drop your life gets significantly more complicated and not necessarily in a good way.

Yeah I've been trying to give OP's partner the benefit of the doubt, but it looks like the only circumstance under which she'll have sex with him is if it will lead to pregnancy.  If true, she hasn't compromised at all, she's just found another angle to get what she wants without helping to fix the core problems of the relationship.

A similar thing happened to someone very close to me. When the relationship inevitably fell apart they were three back-to-back kids in.  He didn't want to have a fourth kid, so she went out and had another guy impregnate her instead.  Their lives were so enmeshed at this point he couldn't bring himself to leave. Obviously the exact same thing won't necessarily happen to you, just wanted to share a horror story of how this can sometimes go for people.

jeeeeeesus dude. I'm not trying to just bang to bang here. She's getting off BC to see if it changes her libido. If not i've told her that's not a relationship we can work on or I can be happy in. She hasn't had one for 6 years. That means no desire not just towards me/but sex in generally and she doesn't really get what she's missing. If (and I say if because I'm more than likely not going to be able to come up with a direct yes answer to her big life goals without a more functional relationship thus resulting in a separation) we were to engage in sex again; it'd be the safest of the safe. She wants kids in the future-not now and she's made that clear. She also wanted to be married before having kids and such.

ender

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There are also non-hormonal birth control options.

They are much less popular but they do exist and are quite effective.

Cool Friend

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If they start having sex, I'll wager she's pregnant in less than six months.  This whole situation smells like a trap. 

She desperately wants marriage and kids with him, he doesn't but has agreed she should go off birth control, now all she has to do is lay him once, on the right day, and she gets everything she wants and he's fucked.  It's classic.

Wear a condom every time, OP, and be sure to retain possession of used ones.  If you spill a single drop your life gets significantly more complicated and not necessarily in a good way.

Yeah I've been trying to give OP's partner the benefit of the doubt, but it looks like the only circumstance under which she'll have sex with him is if it will lead to pregnancy.  If true, she hasn't compromised at all, she's just found another angle to get what she wants without helping to fix the core problems of the relationship.

A similar thing happened to someone very close to me. When the relationship inevitably fell apart they were three back-to-back kids in.  He didn't want to have a fourth kid, so she went out and had another guy impregnate her instead.  Their lives were so enmeshed at this point he couldn't bring himself to leave. Obviously the exact same thing won't necessarily happen to you, just wanted to share a horror story of how this can sometimes go for people.

jeeeeeesus dude. I'm not trying to just bang to bang here. She's getting off BC to see if it changes her libido. If not i've told her that's not a relationship we can work on or I can be happy in. She hasn't had one for 6 years. That means no desire not just towards me/but sex in generally and she doesn't really get what she's missing. If (and I say if because I'm more than likely not going to be able to come up with a direct yes answer to her big life goals without a more functional relationship thus resulting in a separation) we were to engage in sex again; it'd be the safest of the safe. She wants kids in the future-not now and she's made that clear. She also wanted to be married before having kids and such.

Ok cool.  I hope getting off BC kickstarts her libido and you can rebuild the relationship. Best of luck!

zoochadookdook

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If they start having sex, I'll wager she's pregnant in less than six months.  This whole situation smells like a trap. 

She desperately wants marriage and kids with him, he doesn't but has agreed she should go off birth control, now all she has to do is lay him once, on the right day, and she gets everything she wants and he's fucked.  It's classic.

Wear a condom every time, OP, and be sure to retain possession of used ones.  If you spill a single drop your life gets significantly more complicated and not necessarily in a good way.

Yeah I've been trying to give OP's partner the benefit of the doubt, but it looks like the only circumstance under which she'll have sex with him is if it will lead to pregnancy.  If true, she hasn't compromised at all, she's just found another angle to get what she wants without helping to fix the core problems of the relationship.

A similar thing happened to someone very close to me. When the relationship inevitably fell apart they were three back-to-back kids in.  He didn't want to have a fourth kid, so she went out and had another guy impregnate her instead.  Their lives were so enmeshed at this point he couldn't bring himself to leave. Obviously the exact same thing won't necessarily happen to you, just wanted to share a horror story of how this can sometimes go for people.

jeeeeeesus dude. I'm not trying to just bang to bang here. She's getting off BC to see if it changes her libido. If not i've told her that's not a relationship we can work on or I can be happy in. She hasn't had one for 6 years. That means no desire not just towards me/but sex in generally and she doesn't really get what she's missing. If (and I say if because I'm more than likely not going to be able to come up with a direct yes answer to her big life goals without a more functional relationship thus resulting in a separation) we were to engage in sex again; it'd be the safest of the safe. She wants kids in the future-not now and she's made that clear. She also wanted to be married before having kids and such.

Ok cool.  I hope getting off BC kickstarts her libido and you can rebuild the relationship. Best of luck!

Same lol I mean hey it's all we can try eh? But thanks for looking out. I know it sounds crazy out of context "she's going off bc to try to have sex".

ender

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Same lol I mean hey it's all we can try eh? But thanks for looking out. I know it sounds crazy out of context "she's going off bc to try to have sex".

Something to consider too is that this is a short term solution even if you get married.

Unless you expect her to maintain the same drive for the rest of her life, that will almost assuredly change as you two get older, have kids, etc.

PoutineLover

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I would suggest a copper iud as a mostly foolproof non hormonal contraceptive. It shouldn't affect libido, and fertility returns to normal immediately after removal.
It's my experience that you can't force the feeling of commitment or wanting kids. With my ex, I was always unsure, didn't really see that future, even though we had been together a while and lived together. With my current partner, I know that's what I want, we have talked about it, and it feels right to be making these plans with someone who is totally on board with our shared goals. Anything less than that degree of commitment and uncertainty is unfair for both of you. As you said, she's approaching the age where she needs to find a life partner to have kids. If you force this, you probably will never find out what it is to build a mutually satisfying partnership with someone who is compatible in all the ways that matter.
From the inside, you probably can't see it, but to everyone reading what you write and the subtext, it looks like she is jerking you around to get her way. She has her goals (ring, marriage, kids) and she sees you as a provider and sperm donor. Are you going to settle for a relationship where the only sex you ever get is out of duty or to make kids? Are you going to settle for a woman who won't try to meet you halfway on your desires unless you pay her off with a ring?
Its harsh to put it that way, I know. But your responses are somewhat dodging the real questions you face, and circling back to what she wants every time. Put yourself first, because you can't make someone else happy by sacrificing yourself.

zoochadookdook

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Same lol I mean hey it's all we can try eh? But thanks for looking out. I know it sounds crazy out of context "she's going off bc to try to have sex".

Something to consider too is that this is a short term solution even if you get married.

Unless you expect her to maintain the same drive for the rest of her life, that will almost assuredly change as you two get older, have kids, etc.

Yeah; I don't expect a GOGOGO mentality from anyone forever really in that aspect(it's neigh impossible especially with time/life/age and changes); but having some sort of libido is a must vs none. I've been reading on asexuality/demi sexuality and relationships between them and standard libido partners a lot and it's been kind of nutty. I personally can't be in a relationship unless someone has a libido/a lot of people in those previously listed situations go outside the relationship on one side or the other but I wouldn't do that knowingly or unknowingly-if i'm with someone I'm with them.