Author Topic: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation  (Read 4648 times)

DoubleDown

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5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« on: June 06, 2016, 04:17:38 PM »
In case anyone's interested in shedding a few pounds and getting healthier (who isn't?), I thought I'd share my recent experience with the so-called "5-2 Diet." It's a very Mustachian/Stoic thing in a lot of ways, and I dropped weight pretty fast and quite easily by following it these last 6 weeks or so. If you're looking to lose some weight or get healthier in general, I'd recommend giving it a shot. I'm sure it's not for everyone, but it has really worked for me. It apparently worked for Jimmy Kimmel too; it's how he went from being quite porky to being thin these days.

Background:
I saw a story on NBC News a month or two ago about how research has repeatedly shown that restricted calorie diets improve health and longevity, and that the 5-2 diet is being advised by physicians for their patients to improve their health and lose weight. When animals and people are faced with calorie deprivation, they end up living longer and having all kinds of unexpected health benefits. People on the diet they profiled for the news story found it to be a pretty easy way to restrict calories, and drop weight and improve their health (lower cholesterol, lower blood sugar, lower blood pressure, etc.) in the process.

Anyway, I figured I could stand to lose about 5 pounds or so, so I looked into it and gave it a try. The gist is that for 5 days a week you eat whatever you want, whatever you would normally eat. No calorie counting, no restrictions. The other 2 days, you eat only 1/4 of your normal daily caloric intake. For me, I'm normally allotted about 2600 calories a day based on my size, age, and activity level. So for 2 days, I could eat only up to 650 calories each day.

I didn't know how difficult it would be to eat only that many calories, but I wanted to see how it was. I will say I found it to be extremely easy to do, and I often didn't even eat the 650 calories I was allotted. It doesn't matter when you eat the calories, or what days you eat the restricted calories (back to back or spread out over the week), and it doesn't matter what you eat -- just that you eat 1/4 the calories. I tended to skip breakfast, then eat a late lunch which would hold me over until a snack later on. But it doesn't matter how you do it, whatever works for you. Of course while you can eat anything you want, it would not be too smart to use up your calories with something empty like donuts and booze. I usually ate eggs, beans, oatmeal, bananas, avocados, fruits, and other things that stay with you without being high-calorie.

Man, the weight really fell off me. While on average one might expect to drop about a pound a week, it came off even faster for me. I lost the 5 pounds within about 3 weeks, and figured I'd just keep going to get my body fat percentage even lower. I lost another 3 pounds after that at about the regular rate of one pound a week. I didn't take blood glucose or cholesterol readings beforehand, so I don't know if there's been any effect there. But if my experience is like the people in the news story, odds are all my readings would be better. I definitely feel and look better.

One of the "side effects" of the diet is that it tends to make you more mindful and appreciative about eating (the Mustachian/stoic part). By eating restricted calories, or depriving yourself on some days, you pretty quickly come to understand what it really means to be satisfied/full, so that you don't just keep eating past the point of satiety. That is, you come to understand what is "enough", just like we do with money and stuff. I tend to savor food more now, and even on the days when I'm allowed to eat whatever I want, I don't gorge myself as much as I used to. If I'm not hungry at a regular mealtime now, I don't eat at all, or I eat less. I just go until I'm hungry, then I'll eat until I'm satisfied. In the same way I don't feel deprived by not buying a bunch of junk I don't need, I now no longer feel deprived by not eating as much.

Now that I've reached and even surpassed my original weight loss target, I'm doing 6-1 as a maintenance plan. That is, I restrict calories on one day a week and eat whatever I want the other 6 days. But as I said, even on those other 6 days I now find I'm voluntarily skipping meals and just generally eating less.

If you're looking to lose some pounds or get healthier in general, I recommend giving it a shot. If you're like me, you may find lots of benefits to it and that it isn't even difficult eating less once you appreciate what is "enough."

rpr

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 04:39:22 PM »
I don't get this.  Wouldn't eating 2090 cal per day (=(5*2660+2*0.25*2660)/7)  have the same results as this 5-2 plan?

Losing weight is not magic. Eat less than you burn and you will lose weight. Eat more than you burn and you will gain weight.

In my opinion, this is what works

1. Eat a healthy diet
2. Exercise every day
3. If you want to lose weight -- create a small and sustainable calorie deficit.

Almost all of the caloric restriction tests have been done on laboratory animals. In these tests on the animals, it was found that caloric restriction influenced metabolic activity which could then increase lifespan.

When it came to human subjects, the results were not similar to animal trial results. 

Quote
A  National Institutes of Health-supported study provides some of the first clues about the impact of sustained calorie restriction in adults. Results from a two-year clinical trial show calorie restriction in normal-weight and moderately overweight people did not have some metabolic effects found in laboratory animal studies. However, the researchers found calorie restriction modified risk factors for age-related diseases and influenced indicators associated with longer life span, such as blood pressure, cholesterol, and insulin resistance. The study was reported in the September, 2015 issue of Journal of Gerontology: Medical Sciences.

https://www.nia.nih.gov/newsroom/2015/09/nih-study-finds-calorie-restriction-lowers-some-risk-factors-age-related-diseases

You can get the same results by eating a more wholesome and better diet than the typical Standard American Diet (SAD). Eat more  whole grains, vegetables and fruit and it works. That is effectively what you were doing on your restricted days. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 04:42:57 PM by rpr »

DoubleDown

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 05:24:59 PM »
I don't get this.  Wouldn't eating 2090 cal per day (=(5*2660+2*0.25*2660)/7)  have the same results as this 5-2 plan?

Losing weight is not magic. Eat less than you burn and you will lose weight. Eat more than you burn and you will gain weight.

In my opinion, this is what works

1. Eat a healthy diet
2. Exercise every day
3. If you want to lose weight -- create a small and sustainable calorie deficit.

Almost all of the caloric restriction tests have been done on laboratory animals. In these tests on the animals, it was found that caloric restriction influenced metabolic activity which could then increase lifespan.

When it came to human subjects, the results were not similar to animal trial results. 

Quote
A  National Institutes of Health-supported study provides some of the first clues about the impact of sustained calorie restriction in adults. Results from a two-year clinical trial show calorie restriction in normal-weight and moderately overweight people did not have some metabolic effects found in laboratory animal studies. However, the researchers found calorie restriction modified risk factors for age-related diseases and influenced indicators associated with longer life span, such as blood pressure, cholesterol, and insulin resistance. The study was reported in the September, 2015 issue of Journal of Gerontology: Medical Sciences.

https://www.nia.nih.gov/newsroom/2015/09/nih-study-finds-calorie-restriction-lowers-some-risk-factors-age-related-diseases

You can get the same results by eating a more wholesome and better diet than the typical Standard American Diet (SAD). Eat more  whole grains, vegetables and fruit and it works. That is effectively what you were doing on your restricted days.

I agree with most of what you've said, especially that to lose weight you need to consume less calories than you burn. I am most certainly not touting this 5-2 diet as anything magical or even suited to most people, let alone everyone. I'm saying it worked for me and I found it extremely easy to follow. I liked the Mustachian aspects of it, how it made me more appreciative and mindful of what I eat.

As to your question about whether eating 5/7 the calories for 7 days a week would have the same effect as eating 1/4 the calories 2 days a week and 100% calories the other 5 days:  I don't know. It could be that the more restrictive calories on certain days gives health benefits for which science cannot yet explain the mechanism, and that may not be true for eating slightly less each day. However, I know for certain that for me, I would not want to find ways to restrict calories ever day. It would be tiresome and annoying for me having to count calories ever day, and to worry about what I'm eating every day, but to each his own.

rpr

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2016, 05:43:42 PM »
Sorry, I think that my post came across as negatively.

I read a little bit more and I can see that this is some sort of intermittent fasting. I did talk to someone who did this and he had the same feeling as you did -- this helped to reduce appetite on the non-restricted days.

For me, what seems to work now is to change my approach to eating. Eat every single day. Eat wholesome and nutritious food. Feel better. No deprivation on any day. Once you get used to this new approach to food there is joy in approaching it.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 07:13:32 PM »
Intermittent fasting is awesome for certain lifestyles.

This 5-2 diet seems like a crock of sh*t from what I read after a google search.

This is coming from someone who lost 123lbs over the course of 22 months back in 2008-2009 and has since then coached and consulted over 100 athletes/clients on nutrition, training, and the related physiology.

I'm glad that caloric deficit worked well for you, I would not recommend this approach for anyone who really cares to learn about how/why certain lifestyle changes work, or wants long term results.

rpr

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 08:48:58 PM »
Intermittent fasting is awesome for certain lifestyles.

This 5-2 diet seems like a crock of sh*t from what I read after a google search.

This is coming from someone who lost 123lbs over the course of 22 months back in 2008-2009 and has since then coached and consulted over 100 athletes/clients on nutrition, training, and the related physiology.

I'm glad that caloric deficit worked well for you, I would not recommend this approach for anyone who really cares to learn about how/why certain lifestyle changes work, or wants long term results.

2B1S -- can you tell us what is your approach?

human

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 08:57:48 PM »
If one is overweight and sedentary and then makes a real effort at exercise and diet 5lbs lost in three weeks would be pretty sad. My morning dump is half that. Go for a run in the morning and diet already.

That said I really need to get of my lazy ass and stop eating popcorn, chips and ice cream. At 6'2" I went from 164 lbs to 188lbs in the last two years and have no more strength at all so I need to get at it!

2Birds1Stone

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2016, 09:07:42 PM »
2B1S -- can you tell us what is your approach?

I never was a fan of a "one size fits all" or cookie cutter approaches.

I try to understand an individuals lifestyle, eating habits, schedule, activity level, experience with training/nutrition, physiological triggers, etc etc before doling out dietary advice.

Overall calories in vs calories out will be most important. That being said adherence is even more important in the long term. So the best laid out plan won't do squat if the person on the plan cheats or falls off.

I take a moderate approach with most people at first. Cut calories by 20-25% of maintenance, slowly increase activity, monitor progress, behavior, feedback from the individual and then adjust accordingly.

Some people respond really well to a cyclical diet approach, high - medium - low days sort of like the 5-2 concept only it's much less extreme on low days.

Some respond really well to IF (really busy professional types that are to bust to think about food during the work day).

Some respond well to lower carb higher fat diets, some to simply cutting calories and keeping all macronutrient levels fairly moderate.

It's different for elite level athletes I have coached, such as bodybuilders and gymnasts vs john doe looking to lose some weight for summer.

Some people I can give macro #'s to and they will follow them to the T. Others I have had to set up on meal plans and slowly teach how to substitute food choices based on calories/macro's/fiber content and slowly ween off of a set meal plan.

It's something I wish I had more time to do, with a successful career I only have time to work with 4-6 clients at any given time. Part of my FIRE plan is to continue coaching/teaching mostly for pleasure but for some side income as well. It's VERY rewarding to see people's lives literally change as a result of your help. I've had people come off medication for BP, Cholesterol, blood sugar, etc etc that they have been on for YEARS prior to making a lifestyle change.

GuitarStv

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 06:19:14 AM »
I lost 22 lbs in a couple months earlier this year by following this weird trick:

- Eat refined sugars (cakes, cookies, donuts, chocolate, candies, etc.) in small amounts less than once a week.
- Don't drink calories (only water).
- Eat more fruit and vegetables.
- Exercise vigorously for 6 - 8 hrs a week.

YMMV.

electriceagle

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 06:45:16 AM »
I lost 22 lbs in a couple months earlier this year by following this weird trick:

- Eat refined sugars (cakes, cookies, donuts, chocolate, candies, etc.) in small amounts less than once a week.
- Don't drink calories (only water).
- Eat more fruit and vegetables.
- Exercise vigorously for 6 - 8 hrs a week.

YMMV.

Exactly.

Skip all of the rigamarole: eat more vegetables & less starch/sugar. Lift weights.

warmastoast

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2016, 07:44:18 AM »
For those interested -  dr Jason Fung is leading the field on IF.  His book The Obesity code is well worth reading since he tackles many sides of the problems leading to obesity.

Personally, for me,  I've struggled with weight gain since moving to the USA.  Not my diet, that didn't change from my super healthy french one.  Stress was the problem for me.  Stress with moving a family with high school children, stress with selling/buying a house, stress getting my daughter into college and of course stress with a bad marriage that ended and all the financial worries that brings. I tried IF but felt worse.  I exercise - weights and cardio.  The thing that's moving the needle finally?  I read that raised cortisol can mean raised blood glucose OVERNIGHT when you haven't eaten.  I don't have a continuous blood glucose monitor but from dr tests I knew my fasting glucose level was higher than it should be, coupled with a v high incidence of type II diabetes amongst my family.... I started taking phosphatidylserine (thanks to Dr Peter Attia for that one) at night and woke up feeling "better" (hard to describe).  My fasting glucose is lower and I'm beginning to lose some weight.  phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol.

CLB

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2016, 08:30:07 AM »
I've done the 5:2 and it worked for me, and I lost pounds and inches, as well lowering my grocery budget, which was due to becoming more aware of what I was (and wasn't) eating and being more careful about grocery shopping.

brute

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2016, 09:21:45 AM »
I lost 150 pounds in 13 months a while back. Quit drinking, eating at restaurants, and all refined carbs. Easiest eating plan I've followed and learned how to cook in the process.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2016, 09:33:31 AM »
For those interested -  dr Jason Fung is leading the field on IF.  His book The Obesity code is well worth reading since he tackles many sides of the problems leading to obesity.

Personally, for me,  I've struggled with weight gain since moving to the USA.  Not my diet, that didn't change from my super healthy french one.  Stress was the problem for me.  Stress with moving a family with high school children, stress with selling/buying a house, stress getting my daughter into college and of course stress with a bad marriage that ended and all the financial worries that brings. I tried IF but felt worse.  I exercise - weights and cardio.  The thing that's moving the needle finally?  I read that raised cortisol can mean raised blood glucose OVERNIGHT when you haven't eaten.  I don't have a continuous blood glucose monitor but from dr tests I knew my fasting glucose level was higher than it should be, coupled with a v high incidence of type II diabetes amongst my family.... I started taking phosphatidylserine (thanks to Dr Peter Attia for that one) at night and woke up feeling "better" (hard to describe).  My fasting glucose is lower and I'm beginning to lose some weight.  phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol.

While Phosphatidylserine does have some studied health benefits Cortisol is not one of them while using the PS supplements available on the open market.

http://examine.com/supplements/Phosphatidylserine/

Cortisol   -
VERY HIGH
See all 4 studies   
A decrease in exercise-induced cortisol has been noted with the bovine cortex sourced PS only, soy based supplements (which are usually the only ones sold now due to fear of Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease) have been shown to have outright no effect at doses up to 750mg.

Dulcimina

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 09:37:30 AM »
I've done the 5:2 and it worked for me, and I lost pounds and inches, as well lowering my grocery budget, which was due to becoming more aware of what I was (and wasn't) eating and being more careful about grocery shopping.

Same here.  I also agree with doubledown - I'm not going to fiddle around with calorie tracking every day when this works perfectly well and I  don't want to have to flex my willpower every day.  I've also been reading Dr. Fung's work, and his explanations on insulin resistance and obesity fit my own experience with fasting 

Some TMI follows...




In addition, the 4:3 (fasting 3 times per week) has been really effective on my autoimmune conditions.  As in, I was on domperidone for about 8 years and was still throwing up every day, multiple times a day.  And there was something shady going on with that, as I had to get the drug out of pocket ($$$) from a compounding pharmacy, rather than through insurance/regular prescription.  In fact, since 2003, only through intermittent fasting, a low carb diet, or an autoimmune paleo diet have I gone more than two days without throwing up.  And it's not just that my stomach is empty from fasting, because on a regular diet, I'd still try to throw up if I hadn't eaten.  In fact it was usually worse, as I'd keep going to the point where the blood vessels in my eyes burst and I would end up with two black eyes. I'm off of domperidone, off steroids, no longer going in for biopsies while the doctors try to figure out unsuccessfully what's wrong with me for some of the other issues.  I sleep like a baby. My joints don't hurt. My deadlift 5 rep max went up 30 pounds. 

If someone trying to sell something gave this kind of testimonial, I'd call it snake oil.  But fasting is free, there is nothing in it for me whether any one else tries it.


DoubleDown

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2016, 11:18:37 AM »
Sorry, I think that my post came across as negatively.

I read a little bit more and I can see that this is some sort of intermittent fasting. I did talk to someone who did this and he had the same feeling as you did -- this helped to reduce appetite on the non-restricted days.

For me, what seems to work now is to change my approach to eating. Eat every single day. Eat wholesome and nutritious food. Feel better. No deprivation on any day. Once you get used to this new approach to food there is joy in approaching it.

No worries, and I'm glad you found something that works for you!

If one is overweight and sedentary and then makes a real effort at exercise and diet 5lbs lost in three weeks would be pretty sad. My morning dump is half that. Go for a run in the morning and diet already.

I may not have been clear in my OP: I was neither sedentary nor overweight before trying this diet. In fact, I was and am very fit. I do a fair amount of weight lifting, running, walking, sprinting, and outdoor work and had a normal BMI despite having quite a bit more muscle mass than the BMI charts expect for the "average" person. However, I figured I had about five extra pounds I could stand to lose, particularly around my belly. I could have done 1000 crunches a day and you'd never know it because I had flab on my stomach. The point of this diet (for me) was that I didn't have to make a real effort at extra exercise or deprivation to be successful. I found it easy to follow and really even enjoyed it. The intermittent fasting may provide health benefits beyond just weight loss.

Plus, I think the slow and steady weight loss of around 1 pound a week is preferable and more sustainable to any kind of crash diet designed to drop a lot of weight quickly. As one example, I read recently that pretty much every single contestant from every season on "The Biggest Loser" has gained back all the weight they lost, and more, once they left the show.

Hotstreak

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2016, 07:20:51 PM »
One of the great ways to lose weight is to stop eating.

human

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2016, 06:14:50 PM »
Sorry, I think that my post came across as negatively.

I read a little bit more and I can see that this is some sort of intermittent fasting. I did talk to someone who did this and he had the same feeling as you did -- this helped to reduce appetite on the non-restricted days.

For me, what seems to work now is to change my approach to eating. Eat every single day. Eat wholesome and nutritious food. Feel better. No deprivation on any day. Once you get used to this new approach to food there is joy in approaching it.

No worries, and I'm glad you found something that works for you!

If one is overweight and sedentary and then makes a real effort at exercise and diet 5lbs lost in three weeks would be pretty sad. My morning dump is half that. Go for a run in the morning and diet already.

I may not have been clear in my OP: I was neither sedentary nor overweight before trying this diet. In fact, I was and am very fit. I do a fair amount of weight lifting, running, walking, sprinting, and outdoor work and had a normal BMI despite having quite a bit more muscle mass than the BMI charts expect for the "average" person. However, I figured I had about five extra pounds I could stand to lose, particularly around my belly. I could have done 1000 crunches a day and you'd never know it because I had flab on my stomach. The point of this diet (for me) was that I didn't have to make a real effort at extra exercise or deprivation to be successful. I found it easy to follow and really even enjoyed it. The intermittent fasting may provide health benefits beyond just weight loss.

Plus, I think the slow and steady weight loss of around 1 pound a week is preferable and more sustainable to any kind of crash diet designed to drop a lot of weight quickly. As one example, I read recently that pretty much every single contestant from every season on "The Biggest Loser" has gained back all the weight they lost, and more, once they left the show.

Sorry Double Down, get it now. Like I mentioned above I've gotten all soft and flabby but in fit mode I found HIIT worked the best for me. Just 5-10 minutes of high intensity intervals 3 times a week with weight training 6 days a week (opposing muscle groups every other day) and I seemed to lose a lot of fat fast. Or run 50-60 miles a week with a long run on Sundays so you can pig out. Lost a lot of weight running those miles . . .

brute

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Re: 5-2 Diet: Losing Weight Without Deprivation
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2016, 08:39:46 AM »
So, for the people who easily control portions, good for you. For some of us, it isn't as easy.

You're going to say yes it is you fat fuck. But it really isn't. When i first started losing weight, I had shakes, extreme mental distress, broke my hand in a door just to keep myself from going to get junk food. It's rough. If you've been eating poorly for a while, your intestinal flora changes and the way your body responds to food changes. It's a struggle. It was easier to quit nicotine than it was to quick junk food.

That is why certain diet plans are a godsend. Low carb allowed me to eat enough to not be hungry and still lose weight rapidly, while bringing my bloodwork to optimal levels.

I still struggle with it. But now I'm a competitive strength athlete and those goals help keep me more on track. But I'll never be able to just walk away from a pizza or tacos without some distress and self loathing.