Author Topic: 2020 POTUS Candidates  (Read 63667 times)

talltexan

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #400 on: June 13, 2019, 01:44:01 PM »
I certainly didn't want to rush you!

Can you tell me more about what you mean when you say Trump "wants to keep jobs here"? I suspect it has to do with the trade actions Trump is taking, as well as attempting to ban Huahei from the 5G infrastructure in North America and Europe.

But I also see that it might mean you're generally supportive of the immigration restrictions Trump has imposed. I know many people who--while they certainly don't like the clumsiness of how the Southern border is being handled with child separations and emergency declarations--do genuinely believe that immigration is too high, and that the priority should be adding certain skilled labor rather than re-uniting families.

Is one of these a fair summary?

talltexan

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #401 on: June 13, 2019, 01:50:00 PM »
I read a book Elizabeth Warren wrote about her history.  I was kind of impressed.  Poor girl makes good.  I like some of what Trump does, but he strikes me as having been born with the silver spoon in his mouth.  It might be good to get a people's candidate this time.  Sometimes, they can relate more to the average Joe or Jane.

Can you be more specific about your Trump comment? What is an issue on which you'd prefer Trump's position to Warren's?

In my opinion, blanket Student loan forgiveness, for one.

Indeed the Warren loan forgiveness plan seems extreme. I would not like the incentives that would be in place for people choosing how much to borrow today knowing that there was some chance of forgiveness in 1-5 years. While I disagree with it, I also think that Warren did address one of the other criticisms--that it mostly helps high-income people--by capping the amount of forgiveness at $50,000.

What I would favor even more strongly would be loan forgiveness that was limited to loans originated prior to 2018 (no incentive problem).

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #402 on: June 26, 2019, 07:25:37 AM »
Any predictions on the debate tonight? Who's planning to watch?

Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Julián Castro, Amy Klobuchar, Beto O’Rourke, Tulsi Gabbard, Jay Inslee, Bill de Blasio, John Delaney, and Tim Ryan.

Does anyone have a break out moment?


secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #403 on: June 26, 2019, 07:52:36 AM »
I predict frustration on my part as the candidates get 60 seconds for answers and 30 seconds for followup responses.  I understand that's a necessary evil with the math of a 2 hour debate among 10 candidates, but still, I'd like more time per candidate.  I guess that will happen soon enough as the field is winnowed.

I kind of wish Senator Warren could have been in the second debate since all of the other current front runners are on night two.  I would rather see the front runners debate each other directly.

Does any candidate drop out after the first debate, or does that happen only after the first primary/caucus?

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #404 on: June 26, 2019, 07:55:33 AM »
I predict frustration on my part as the candidates get 60 seconds for answers and 30 seconds for followup responses.  I understand that's a necessary evil with the math of a 2 hour debate among 10 candidates, but still, I'd like more time per candidate.  I guess that will happen soon enough as the field is winnowed.

I kind of wish Senator Warren could have been in the second debate since all of the other current front runners are on night two.  I would rather see the front runners debate each other directly.

Does any candidate drop out after the first debate, or does that happen only after the first primary/caucus?

This is my frustration, as well. I would have preferred four days of 5 candidates each, even.

I told myself I wasn't going to watch. Then I told myself I would, because I haven't really been paying much attention to the individual candidates' positions on things (other than what the media screams at you in a freaking panic). But with this format, I don't feel like I'm going to get much information at all. So if I do turn it on, I'm guessing I'll get so frustrated by the format and the lack of time to learn anything about the candidates that I'll just turn it off again.

It sucks.

J Boogie

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #405 on: June 26, 2019, 08:43:29 AM »
Part of the problem is that running for president can be lucrative. Even if they know they don't have much of a chance, they know it will raise their profile and generate tons of press that has proven to translate quite readily into book deals/sales.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/16/2020-candidates-book-royalties-1329645


wenchsenior

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #406 on: June 26, 2019, 08:59:14 AM »
Any predictions on the debate tonight? Who's planning to watch?

Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Julián Castro, Amy Klobuchar, Beto O’Rourke, Tulsi Gabbard, Jay Inslee, Bill de Blasio, John Delaney, and Tim Ryan.

Does anyone have a break out moment?

After about 15 years of closely following politics and discovering that doing so unfailingly made me angry and miserable, I began adopting more of a low-media-exposure approach, as per the "Circle of Control" concept MMM advocates.  I can't influence anything about this process of choosing a nominee until Super Tuesday (except possibly by donating, and I have no interest in doing that until later in the process, either). Therefore, I figure there is no point in me paying any but bare minimum attention to this race until mid-February 2020 at the earliest.  By that point, most of the current candidates will be out of the race and it will have been a mostly pointless waste of time and energy to have listened to them anyway.

Also, watching any politician speak under any circumstances drives my blood pressure up (this includes those I really like), so I certainly won't be watching the debates. 

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #407 on: June 26, 2019, 03:10:28 PM »
Any predictions on the debate tonight? Who's planning to watch?

Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Julián Castro, Amy Klobuchar, Beto O’Rourke, Tulsi Gabbard, Jay Inslee, Bill de Blasio, John Delaney, and Tim Ryan.

Does anyone have a break out moment?

Elizabeth Warren always seems to have some good numbers backing up anything she says.  Then she emphasizes it with either a personal story or the long term consequences of the current policy.  She has a good chance to shine tonight.

Tulsi Gabbard can spotlight this recent Iran incident to spotlight her views.

I think the rest will give SSID.

secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #408 on: June 26, 2019, 09:25:42 PM »
Curious what SSID stands for.

I watched the whole thing.  I haven't read any news reviews.  My opinions on the debate:

1.  I like the single issue candidates (Inslee, Gabbard) less than the others.  I don't see how a single issue candidate, no matter how important the issue might be, can succeed.

2.  I thought Booker did better in the debate than I had thought he was doing before.  The anger has turned to determined outrage, and an eloquence was there that I hadn't seen before.

3.  Inslee looks like he needs some dental attention to his lower teeth.  Distracting.

4.  Best line of the night IMHO was Gabbard talking about LGBTQ soldiers and how she knew they both would die for each other.  There were other "sound bite" quotes that I'm sure will get used by the media, but her words there hit me.

5.  Warren was playing to not lose ground; most of the rest were playing to gain ground.  Reasonable strategies on both parts, but I think Warren lost a little ground by being conservative.

6.  I was in general confused when some of the candidates and the moderators switched into Spanish.  Nothing wrong with Spanish; all of my kids speak it to some degree and I understand a little - and I'm not advocating English as the official language of the US - but as a practical matter a lot of Americans didn't understand those parts.  ETA:  Ah, the debate was in Miami and televised on Telemundo in addition to NBC and MSNBC.  Makes more sense.

7.  There was a middle ground on assertiveness for me.  I didn't like Delaney jumping in without being called on, but I also felt that Gabbard was too meek in the first hour.

8.  O'Rourke doesn't look Presidential to me.  Neither does Deblasio.

9.  Didn't know Ryan very well but liked what I heard.  Seemed forthright and practical.

10.  Disappointed in the moderators saying they'd be ruthless on the timing and then not following through very well on that aspect of things.  And when and who they selected for 30 second followups seemed arbitrary.  Overall, though, excepting the audio glitch at the top of the second hour, NBC and the moderators acquitted themselves reasonably well.

11.  Didn't like when the candidates were debating directly with each other and talking over each other.  Mainly because I couldn't hear what either of them were saying.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 10:20:38 PM by secondcor521 »

Travis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #409 on: June 26, 2019, 10:56:56 PM »
I was pleasantly surprised how many of the questions were geared to take apart the DNC platform and asked "how would you respond to this criticism?"  Who was the woman who asked most of the first-round questions? I liked her.

I went in expecting it to be 2 hours of their usual platforms and talking points as most debates tend to be and was surprised that it was only an hour and a half of that.  I heard a fair amount of substance amidst the noise, but unfortunately many of them got cut short due to time and with 10 people on the stage I can't remember who said what.  I loved the Medicare question where damn near everybody was touting the usual "free healthcare and Medicare for all" and the one guy spoke up and said "it would put every hospital out of business." A centrist remark on a key Democrat position? I was shocked. I wanted to hear more.  There was a point early on where I wished I had a transcript of President Obama's debate points because many of them felt like repeats from 12 years ago.

I haven't been following any of the candidates yet so I can't compare tonight to anything previous, but I went away with the impression that Warren had very little to contribute.  Ryan got almost no time and flubbed what time he did get.  The guys who spoke Spanish wasted time by doing so.  Most of the candidates went overtime with platitudes long after they made their point - if they ever got to it.  The guy who said "I'm unique because I'm raising a black child" while standing next to the only black candidate was hilarious. 

Head-scratcher moment: Who bankrolls the DNC? Most of the candidates made it clear that if you're incorporated and too large to qualify as a "small business" then you're the bad guy.  One of them commented that corporations have gotten too big and need to broken up and "the free market" should take over. Didn't the free market determine one should buy out the other in the first place?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 11:02:38 PM by Travis »

secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #410 on: June 26, 2019, 11:34:30 PM »
I was pleasantly surprised how many of the questions were geared to take apart the DNC platform and asked "how would you respond to this criticism?"  Who was the woman who asked most of the first-round questions? I liked her.

I went in expecting it to be 2 hours of their usual platforms and talking points as most debates tend to be and was surprised that it was only an hour and a half of that.  I heard a fair amount of substance amidst the noise, but unfortunately many of them got cut short due to time and with 10 people on the stage I can't remember who said what.  I loved the Medicare question where damn near everybody was touting the usual "free healthcare and Medicare for all" and the one guy spoke up and said "it would put every hospital out of business." A centrist remark on a key Democrat position? I was shocked. I wanted to hear more.  There was a point early on where I wished I had a transcript of President Obama's debate points because many of them felt like repeats from 12 years ago.

I haven't been following any of the candidates yet so I can't compare tonight to anything previous, but I went away with the impression that Warren had very little to contribute.  Ryan got almost no time and flubbed what time he did get.  The guys who spoke Spanish wasted time by doing so.  Most of the candidates went overtime with platitudes long after they made their point - if they ever got to it.  The guy who said "I'm unique because I'm raising a black child" while standing next to the only black candidate was hilarious. 

Head-scratcher moment: Who bankrolls the DNC? Most of the candidates made it clear that if you're incorporated and too large to qualify as a "small business" then you're the bad guy.  One of them commented that corporations have gotten too big and need to broken up and "the free market" should take over. Didn't the free market determine one should buy out the other in the first place?

That was Savannah Guthrie.

And the centrist Medicare hospital out of business comment was Delaney.  He's apparently in the "centrist lane" with Biden.

The "black child" guy was Deblasio.  There are AFAIK two African American candidates:  Cory Booker and Kamala Harris.

FIREstache

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #411 on: June 27, 2019, 05:26:36 AM »
Several of them are very week on immigration and appear to want to move to open borders or give away free stuff.  It seemed like it was more about who was the least worst candidate.

The WORST candidates were: Cory Booker, Julián Castro, Beto O’Rourke, Jay Inslee, Bill de Blasio, Elizabeth Warren

The BEST of the group were: Amy Klobuchar, Tulsi Gabbard,  John Delaney

I was surprised Delaney actually understands Medicare drastically underpays hospitals and mentioned it during the debate.  As someone who has spent many years working with healthcare organizations, I can tell you this is very true.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 05:28:31 AM by FIREstache »

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #412 on: June 27, 2019, 06:02:58 AM »
My take:

Winners:

I thought Warren was strong. She does seem very sincere, and I thought it was pretty damn bold (whether or not you agree with her) to take the clear "do away with private health insurance" position. She raised her hand quickly and proudly. Only Mayor de Blasio joined her in doing that, so yes it made her stand out. Castro should see an uptick in his numbers. He was very prepared for this and his adios line was my favorite of the night. To me, Booker probably the best pure speaker of the group. I think he'll get a bump. I do wonder what kind of neighborhood he lives in!

Losers:

I thought Beto was horrible. So robotic and he didn't seem to have the same depth of knowledge as did others. I thought he was supposed to have charisma and energy?? And Klobuchar...geez she is bland, with what I view as stale attempts at "zingers" about foam and beer and her hunter uncle. I don't see how either of them is a factor going forward.


Thoughts about timing: To me, it makes a candidate appear weaker, not stronger, when they exceed their time and force the moderators to call them out, especially on things like canned 45-second closings. Each candidate should have had a closing statement in the bag that went exactly 40 seconds, and not a second more. You need to end on a high note, where everyone can hear your last sentence. That is just basic public speaking.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 06:06:26 AM by Nick_Miller »

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #413 on: June 27, 2019, 06:45:38 AM »
I was surprised Delaney actually understands Medicare drastically underpays hospitals and mentioned it during the debate.  As someone who has spent many years working with healthcare organizations, I can tell you this is very true.

I know this is a common talking point, but as an industry insider maybe you can answer the question I've always had: if hospitals are actually losing money on Medicare then why do hospitals accept Medicare? It seems obvious that if the total compensation was negative (instead of just "less than the hospital wants") that they wouldn't.

talltexan

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #414 on: June 27, 2019, 07:23:47 AM »
I don't vote in this primary, so I didn't watch, but I do want to respond to the single-issue matter:

I agree that single-issue Democratic candidates are weaker than the others. But Trump was basically a single-issue candidate for much of the GOP primary during 2016 (I know it requires some hand-waiving to group immigration and foreign trade together into one issue, but it's probably best thought of as anti-globalism). I think it's harder to win a democratic primary on one issue because there are such a collection of different interest groups involved.

Travis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #415 on: June 27, 2019, 08:29:51 AM »

Thoughts about timing: To me, it makes a candidate appear weaker, not stronger, when they exceed their time and force the moderators to call them out, especially on things like canned 45-second closings. Each candidate should have had a closing statement in the bag that went exactly 40 seconds, and not a second more. You need to end on a high note, where everyone can hear your last sentence. That is just basic public speaking.

The number of times the speakers spent half their allotted time giving their resume or an appeal to authority with only 10 seconds left to answer the question (or not answer at all in many cases)...

One of my favorite statements from Guthrie: "So you don't have a plan?"

I don't think I've ever seen the debate moderator take on the candidate.  They usually throw softballs and just sit back.

Blueberries

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #416 on: June 27, 2019, 09:43:36 AM »
I wasn't impressed with Beto.  I didn't think he was all that prepared.  Castro was prepared, though, and while I don't want him as President, I think he could further his political career in years to come.  I can't help myself, but I like Klobuchar.  I appreciate her more moderate approach; she's practical and I like her economic focus.  I was impressed by Booker as well, which I didn't expect.  I don't know why, but I don't love Warren.  I want to.  I'll see if my position changes as I see her in future debates.

I'm interested to see how Harris does as I quite like her.

I predict frustration on my part as the candidates get 60 seconds for answers and 30 seconds for followup responses.  I understand that's a necessary evil with the math of a 2 hour debate among 10 candidates, but still, I'd like more time per candidate.  I guess that will happen soon enough as the field is winnowed.

I kind of wish Senator Warren could have been in the second debate since all of the other current front runners are on night two. I would rather see the front runners debate each other directly.

Does any candidate drop out after the first debate, or does that happen only after the first primary/caucus?

I wish they did this as well.  They probably wanted to be perceived as "fair", but politics aren't fair, so let's be practical.

bacchi

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #417 on: June 27, 2019, 10:03:08 AM »
I was surprised Delaney actually understands Medicare drastically underpays hospitals and mentioned it during the debate.  As someone who has spent many years working with healthcare organizations, I can tell you this is very true.

I know this is a common talking point, but as an industry insider maybe you can answer the question I've always had: if hospitals are actually losing money on Medicare then why do hospitals accept Medicare? It seems obvious that if the total compensation was negative (instead of just "less than the hospital wants") that they wouldn't.

Hospitals have fixed costs. Medicare patients help with the fixed costs when the hospital is not treating the high-dollar patients.

So, while they may not make much money on Medicare, it's still important to the bottom line for the hospital to accept it.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #418 on: June 27, 2019, 01:39:28 PM »
I liked Amy Klobuchar. She was honest and practical about solving problems.  She's right that we aren't going to abolish private health insurance in 4 years.
Also, she's capable of thinking fast on her feet, and was able to reply back about being an advocate of women's reproductive freedom after Inslee said he was the only politician to enact law to protect those freedoms.

I thought Cory Booker was a strong speaker, though a bit rehearsed.

I like Elizabeth Warren's ideas but not sure how realistic some of her plans are.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #419 on: June 27, 2019, 02:26:22 PM »
I liked Amy Klobuchar. She was honest and practical about solving problems.  She's right that we aren't going to abolish private health insurance in 4 years.
Also, she's capable of thinking fast on her feet, and was able to reply back about being an advocate of women's reproductive freedom after Inslee said he was the only politician to enact law to protect those freedoms.

I thought Cory Booker was a strong speaker, though a bit rehearsed.

I like Elizabeth Warren's ideas but not sure how realistic some of her plans are.

When you doubt the "realism," I suppose you're saying that you think the GOP would stop it, as opposed to saying we couldn't pay for it?

I did a little research and it looks like it would cost $1.5 trillion to wipe out all current student debt (not that Warren actually goes that far, as she puts caps/income limits on her plan, so it would cost less than $1.5 trillion)

And then I look at the Trump tax cuts from 2018 and the cost of them: $1.9 trillion dollars.

And then I see who benefited from said tax cuts: it disproportionately helped the rich (even per Forbes, which is not exactly a liberal rag, a poor person might benefit $1000 while a rich person might benefit $50000) https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghilarducci/2019/04/09/five-good-reasons-it-doesnt-feel-like-the-trump-tax-cut-benefited-you/#53ec2e5b13e0

So basically, if we had the desire to do so, we could have wiped out most/all student debt instead of giving the richest Americans a tax cut. Slashing student loan debt is "realistic" from a math perspective, but surely not from a political perspective, if McConnell stays in charge.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 02:27:53 PM by Nick_Miller »

Travis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #420 on: June 27, 2019, 04:25:44 PM »

So basically, if we had the desire to do so, we could have wiped out most/all student debt instead of giving the richest Americans a tax cut. Slashing student loan debt is "realistic" from a math perspective, but surely not from a political perspective, if McConnell stays in charge.

The part of this "wipe out student loans" thing that I haven't seen is what happens next?  If we passed a new tax and paid off every student loan in America tomorrow, what happens the next year when another 100 million dollars in student loans are taken out?

BlueMR2

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #421 on: June 27, 2019, 04:37:52 PM »
My biggest issue with the student loan proposals is the same issue I had with ACA.  It's just a band-aid.  Does nothing to resolve the root cause.  It just makes people have this emotional feeling that things are better while kicking the can down the road and further burdening future generations.  I'm really disgusted with the entire lineup right now.  There doesn't seem to be anyone with a clue that's running, and once again the party will most likely just shove somebody down our throats with no regard for what the people really want OR need.

big_owl

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #422 on: June 27, 2019, 05:54:08 PM »
My biggest issue with the student loan proposals is the same issue I had with ACA.  It's just a band-aid.  Does nothing to resolve the root cause.  It just makes people have this emotional feeling that things are better while kicking the can down the road and further burdening future generations.  I'm really disgusted with the entire lineup right now.  There doesn't seem to be anyone with a clue that's running, and once again the party will most likely just shove somebody down our throats with no regard for what the people really want OR need.

The pay off student loans thing is basically the same as trump and his promises to build the wall. Only the naieve think either of those will actually happen, but they do bring out the vote.

FIREstache

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #423 on: June 27, 2019, 06:27:29 PM »

I really don't care for all the promises of giving away "free stuff".

I oppose UBI, baby bonds, reparations, free college, wiped out college debt, mandated paid family leave, and paid child care.

I support the ACA, more affordable healthcare (including for seniors paying for expensive Medicare parts/supplements), stabilizing SS without cuts to seniors' benefits, increasing the SS tax thresholds to what they would be if they had been indexed to inflation since 1983.  Affordable healthcare doesn't mean healthcare providers should be paid so little that they go out of business, as so many already have.

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #424 on: June 27, 2019, 06:29:44 PM »

- SNIP -

The pay off student loans thing is basically the same as trump and his promises to build the wall. Only the naieve think either of those will actually happen, but they do bring out the vote.

How will the big changes occur if we can't expect the people's wishes to be carried out by the elected officials?  There has to be one earnest one in the bunch.

Travis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #425 on: June 27, 2019, 07:39:09 PM »
Dear Moderators:

You want to be tough on keeping to your time schedule? Install kill switches on candidate microphones. 


Edit: you suck. The author with no platform beat you.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 08:29:37 PM by Travis »

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #426 on: June 27, 2019, 07:51:15 PM »
I agree with Warrens' wealth tax idea, which could pay off student loans.
Some of these colleges are kind of administrative heavy, and I worry about wasteful spending.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #427 on: June 27, 2019, 08:09:23 PM »
Whew!  Kamala Harris just ripped into Biden

Travis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #428 on: June 27, 2019, 08:19:13 PM »
Whew!  Kamala Harris just ripped into Biden

He's been on the defensive all night, Sanders can't get passed "Medicare uber alles," and Gillibrand won't shut up or stop interrupting everybody.

secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #429 on: June 27, 2019, 09:14:45 PM »
My thoughts, again watching the vast majority of the debate and without reading any news reactions:

1.  Williamson may be the first to drop out.  Don't see her or Swalwell as legitimate options at all.

2.  More one trick ponies tonight IMHO, including Yang with his $1000 per month plan, Gillebrand with eliminating corruption, and "pass the torch" Swalwell.

3.  Funniest moment for me was Sanders claiming a mischaracterization and Maddow responding with "It's a quote."

4.  Didn't like Gillebrand interrupting so much early on, but I understand that the format of the debate puts pressure on candidates like her.

5.  Sanders seems like a repeat of 2016 Sanders.  Yay for consistency but I really think his personal time has passed even if his ideas get adopted.

6.  Biden did a pretty respectable job of defending his front runner position I thought.  I thought he handled the Harris direct attack as well as other criticisms pretty well.  I agree with the poster below who said he took credit for more in the Obama administration than he was likely responsible for, but many people do that when looking for a job so I personally fault him only somewhat for doing that.

7.  Buttigeig continues to be thoughtful and articulate and composed.  I appreciated his candor in his answers about the police shooting and his matter of fact defense against Swalwell's attack on that issue.

8.  Harris seems like she should be a preacher rather than a President.  This is probably a stylistic complaint, but it bothers me.

9.  I agree with the kill switches on microphones for the moderators.  I'd also support "you didn't answer the question, please answer the question" improvements somehow, although that might be a pipe dream.  Finally, I'd support them using kill switches whenever they talk over each other, interrupt, or commandeer the conversation.

10.  Maddow and Todd impressed me less than Guthrie, Holt, and the Telemundo guy.  They didn't seem organized when they attempted to throw it to Lester Holt too early, and sometimes fumbled their questions a little bit.  But it's mostly about the candidates.

11.  I was surprised to hear Mitch McConnell's name mentioned so much last night and tonight.  I would have expected more generic comments about taking back the Senate rather than his specific name.  Maybe it helps engender support.

12.  I feel badly for the candidates I forgot - they apparently didn't make enough of an impression on me.  I guess that includes Bennet and Hickenlooper.

13.  Surprised that there were several to many open seats in the audience during a portion of the debate.  It was a small venue and I would have thought that the place would be packed.  I don't draw any conclusions from this observation other than it was unexpected.

I like the DNC's plan to raise the bar to qualify for the next debate.  I think it's got to be hard to manage to serve 20+ candidates at all, let alone in a reasonably fair way.  I find it fascinating that I am already seeing comments out there about the DNC choosing a candidate for the Democrats.  I understand the history and I certainly think the media personalities might advocate for candidates they personally like, but it seems too early to assert that this is going to happen.  I guess it's a ghost of 2016 that they'll have to deal with somehow.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 09:35:00 PM by secondcor521 »

Travis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #430 on: June 27, 2019, 09:19:20 PM »
My $.02 on tonight:

Biden - couldn't directly answer a question, but took credit for everything - so much so that half the issues they discussed tonight shouldn't still be problems. 

Sanders - Medicare, Medicare, Medicare. And couldn't give more than the same vague shouts he's been giving for years.

Gillibrand - rode Biden's coat tails half the night - and interrupted everybody the other half.

Williamson - how did this person even get on the stage?

Yang - same question.  Even though he only has the one issue, poor guy barely got a chance to say it.

Bennet - couldn't find anything bad to say about him, couldn't find anything that stood out either

Harris - big winner tonight. Credibility for opposing Obama on a few issues and being an important player from CA

Buttigieg - gave honest and specific answers. I liked his "I blew it" response to the police issue. Tied for winner with Harris IMO.

Hickenlooper - some good answers, but needs to speak faster

Swalwell - idiot. Buttigieg said repeatedly there's an investigation and Swalwell's retort was "fire the guy."

Two word response: "Here is my thesis statement"

Travis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #431 on: June 27, 2019, 09:26:29 PM »

11.  I was surprised to hear Mitch McConnell's name mentioned so much last night and tonight.  I would have expected more generic comments about taking back the Senate rather than his specific name.  Maybe it helps engender support.

Being President is pointless if you don't also have the Senate on your side. The Senate Majority Leader gets to decide what gets debated and voted on.  McConnell stated repeatedly during Obama's administration that his main goal was to obstruct him.  If the guy running the Senate has declared "I'm just here to screw with you," dealing with him becomes a big part of the game plan.

Travis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #432 on: June 27, 2019, 09:44:16 PM »
Healthcare and tuition are two of the biggest legs of the DNC platform, but I never hear anybody actually discuss the cause or second order effects (except for Delaney).  They talk big about the ACA, but ignore that it is still the law but does nothing to address those big bad evil insurance companies nor discuss why people still have high deductibles or no insurance at all.  They also never bring up why healthcare is so expensive - just that it is.  Sanders is the only one to address it, except he got so caught up in his ranting tonight he blamed prescription drugs costs on the insurance companies as well.  They can't have it both ways.  They're still using the same talking points they used pre-ACA.  Many of them want free college tuition, but don't bring up why so many folks get loans in the first place - college is fucking expensive.  Simply transferring who pays for it won't make it any less expensive for the nation.

FIREstache

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #433 on: June 27, 2019, 09:53:54 PM »
Too much pandering to illegal aliens again - free healthcare, open borders, asylum, coddling, not deporting illegals, etc.

I don't care for Harris at all.  Yang's selective non-universal income dividend is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard, and Harris has a $500/mo similar idea she threw out there during the debate.  Enough of throwing this free stuff out there to try to win votes.  And I don't want to see free pre-K, UBI, baby bonds, reparations, free college, wiped out college debt, mandated paid family leave, and free child care.

The two older guys held up well.  Bernie still has the energy, and Biden looks like he's ready to take over right now.  I would expect them to hold their positions easily after these debates.

Biden looks the strongest from this group and has the best chance of beating Trump.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #434 on: June 28, 2019, 06:54:39 AM »
Based on debate only (trying to be objective)

1) Harris murdered Biden and was trending big on Google in like 35 states. She'll see a bump. Damn she will be formidable in future debates; other candidates are on notice. The passion and energy she brought was unmatched by anyone else on the stage.

2) Buttigieg was the most articulate and analytical, staying calm while still getting some good one-liners and digs in. He survived the police shooting issue, and I'd anticipate him regaining some momentum. He was also the top trending candidate in like a dozen states, including Iowa. I noticed how other candidates did not generally interrupt him. Loved the eye daggers at Swalswell.

3) Maybe...Bernie? His closing was strong, because it makes sense. Dems have had control of Congress and/or the White House for what, at least 50% of the time in the last 45 or so years? Yet the candidates kept talking about how we've had the same problem (income stagnation) for 40-50 years. So...doesn't this imply that half-measures haven't solved anything?

4)-9) Doesn't really matter, I don't think. I thought Biden was near the bottom. He looked old, low-energy, he stumbled over answers, and was not ready for the bashing from Harris.

10) Williamson will automatically make the July debate right? I'm sure Twitter will be ready with drinking games next time.


Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #435 on: June 28, 2019, 07:11:59 AM »
I told my husband that I never had a problem with Biden’s age... until last night. He is losing his edge.

And my husband reminded me it would be a year and a half fro now before he even took office if he was elected.

Biden moved down a lot on my list after last night.

sherr

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #436 on: June 28, 2019, 07:27:13 AM »
(even per Forbes, which is not exactly a liberal rag) https://www.forbes.com/sites/

FYI @Nick_Miller, forbes.com/sites is not "Forbes", it's a trash blog platform that is styled intentionally deceptively to make it look like Forbes has more content than they do and to lend false credibility to their bloggers. Content on /sites is not edited, endorsed, reviewed, or fact-checked in any way, and it says so in the fine print at the bottom. I point this out not because I disagree with your comment, but because it drives me up the wall that people cite forbes.com/sites as if it has an ounce of credibility. It doesn't, it's trash, and no one should read it ever.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #437 on: June 28, 2019, 08:04:28 AM »
(even per Forbes, which is not exactly a liberal rag) https://www.forbes.com/sites/

FYI @Nick_Miller, forbes.com/sites is not "Forbes", it's a trash blog platform that is styled intentionally deceptively to make it look like Forbes has more content than they do and to lend false credibility to their bloggers. Content on /sites is not edited, endorsed, reviewed, or fact-checked in any way, and it says so in the fine print at the bottom. I point this out not because I disagree with your comment, but because it drives me up the wall that people cite forbes.com/sites as if it has an ounce of credibility. It doesn't, it's trash, and no one should read it ever.

Ah, I did not know any of that. I assumed it was tied tightly to the magazine. Alas, I was apparently duped!

But yeah I could have gotten the same facts from another site; I don't think it changes anything I said.

ketchup

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #438 on: June 28, 2019, 10:28:30 AM »
Yang - same question.  Even though he only has the one issue, poor guy barely got a chance to say it.
He has over 100 issues. https://www.yang2020.com/policies/

MSNBC basically fucked him though.  His mic was off pretty much the entire time.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/andrew-yang-blames-debate-performance-on-his-mic-being-off/2019/06/28/3529b68e-99a0-11e9-916d-9c61607d8190_story.html?utm_term=.18a625f9722e

Bernie was pretty much exactly as expected, same as 2016.  Kamala Harris sure found plenty of ways to squeeze one sentence into three paragraphs.  I liked Pete.

Biden came off as old.  He has a year on Bernie but he sure seemed well past his prime.  I didn't fully realize that until last night.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 10:32:21 AM by ketchup »

Travis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #439 on: June 28, 2019, 10:42:54 AM »
Yang - same question.  Even though he only has the one issue, poor guy barely got a chance to say it.
He has over 100 issues. https://www.yang2020.com/policies/


No doubt in writing he's got some things to say, but he was allowed to speak twice. He led off with his universal income pitch and ended with it.  He could have said whatever he wanted in closing, but chose to stick with that one issue.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #440 on: June 28, 2019, 10:46:27 AM »
Yang - same question.  Even though he only has the one issue, poor guy barely got a chance to say it.
He has over 100 issues. https://www.yang2020.com/policies/


No doubt in writing he's got some things to say, but he was allowed to speak twice. He led off with his universal income pitch and ended with it.  He could have said whatever he wanted in closing, but chose to stick with that one issue.

I do think Yang was mistreated. I would have MUCH rather heard a bit more from him as compared to Williamson and/or Bennet. But Yang will likely qualify for debates in August and Sept (after the requirements go up) so he should get more chances with the field narrows.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #441 on: June 28, 2019, 12:22:28 PM »
Yang had a cough which might have been why his mic might have been turned off at times.

Blueberries

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #442 on: June 28, 2019, 02:06:18 PM »
I could see Buttigieg as President in another handful of years.  Harris is a favorite for so many reasons, though I must admit, I don't know if the country is ready for her (I'm open to being wrong!). I'd like her as VP this go around.  But, I didn't like the Biden shaming.  The party needs to show a more united front because it's going to be a tough race. 

My other issue is I think some of the candidates are too progressive for the political climate.  I believe we have Trump because we had Obama.  I know the pendulum will swing the other way, as it has done throughout history, but I don't think the best solution is to go from Trump to a far left candidate. 

Several people need to drop out.  I'd like to see this group do a debate together:  Biden, Booker, Buttigieg, Castro, Harris, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Warren.  From them, I'd like to see a Biden/Harris run.  I'm not sold on Biden, I just think people need another old white man before we see the next major shift forward.

I agree with Warrens' wealth tax idea, which could pay off student loans.
Some of these colleges are kind of administrative heavy, and I worry about wasteful spending.

I didn't finish my BS that long ago and it was hard work and took me longer than it should have, but why should all student loan debt be eliminated? 

I'm in favor of refinancing, loan forgiveness programs for teachers, social workers, etc., increasing grants, and free community college, but beyond that?  No. 

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #443 on: June 28, 2019, 02:10:25 PM »
I could see Buttigieg as President in another handful of years.  Harris is a favorite for so many reasons, though I must admit, I don't know if the country is ready for her (I'm open to being wrong!). I'd like her as VP this go around.  But, I didn't like the Biden shaming.  The party needs to show a more united front because it's going to be a tough race. 

My other issue is I think some of the candidates are too progressive for the political climate.  I believe we have Trump because we had Obama.  I know the pendulum will swing the other way, as it has done throughout history, but I don't think the best solution is to go from Trump to a far left candidate. 

Several people need to drop out.  I'd like to see this group do a debate together:  Biden, Booker, Buttigieg, Castro, Harris, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Warren.  From them, I'd like to see a Biden/Harris run.  I'm not sold on Biden, I just think people need another old white man before we see the next major shift forward.

I agree with Warrens' wealth tax idea, which could pay off student loans.
Some of these colleges are kind of administrative heavy, and I worry about wasteful spending.

I didn't finish my BS that long ago and it was hard work and took me longer than it should have, but why should all student loan debt be eliminated? 

I'm in favor of refinancing, loan forgiveness programs for teachers, social workers, etc., increasing grants, and free community college, but beyond that?  No.

How do you feel about student loans being eligible to be wiped out in the case of bankruptcy proceedings?

ketchup

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #444 on: June 28, 2019, 02:14:29 PM »
I could see Buttigieg as President in another handful of years.  Harris is a favorite for so many reasons, though I must admit, I don't know if the country is ready for her (I'm open to being wrong!). I'd like her as VP this go around.  But, I didn't like the Biden shaming.  The party needs to show a more united front because it's going to be a tough race. 

My other issue is I think some of the candidates are too progressive for the political climate.  I believe we have Trump because we had Obama.  I know the pendulum will swing the other way, as it has done throughout history, but I don't think the best solution is to go from Trump to a far left candidate. 

Several people need to drop out.  I'd like to see this group do a debate together:  Biden, Booker, Buttigieg, Castro, Harris, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Warren.  From them, I'd like to see a Biden/Harris run.  I'm not sold on Biden, I just think people need another old white man before we see the next major shift forward.

I agree with Warrens' wealth tax idea, which could pay off student loans.
Some of these colleges are kind of administrative heavy, and I worry about wasteful spending.

I didn't finish my BS that long ago and it was hard work and took me longer than it should have, but why should all student loan debt be eliminated? 

I'm in favor of refinancing, loan forgiveness programs for teachers, social workers, etc., increasing grants, and free community college, but beyond that?  No.

How do you feel about student loans being eligible to be wiped out in the case of bankruptcy proceedings?
I go back and forth on this.  What's to stop every college grad from declaring bankruptcy at 22?

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #445 on: June 28, 2019, 02:16:45 PM »
I could see Buttigieg as President in another handful of years.  Harris is a favorite for so many reasons, though I must admit, I don't know if the country is ready for her (I'm open to being wrong!). I'd like her as VP this go around.  But, I didn't like the Biden shaming.  The party needs to show a more united front because it's going to be a tough race. 

My other issue is I think some of the candidates are too progressive for the political climate.  I believe we have Trump because we had Obama.  I know the pendulum will swing the other way, as it has done throughout history, but I don't think the best solution is to go from Trump to a far left candidate. 

Several people need to drop out.  I'd like to see this group do a debate together:  Biden, Booker, Buttigieg, Castro, Harris, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Warren.  From them, I'd like to see a Biden/Harris run.  I'm not sold on Biden, I just think people need another old white man before we see the next major shift forward.

I agree with Warrens' wealth tax idea, which could pay off student loans.
Some of these colleges are kind of administrative heavy, and I worry about wasteful spending.

I didn't finish my BS that long ago and it was hard work and took me longer than it should have, but why should all student loan debt be eliminated? 

I'm in favor of refinancing, loan forgiveness programs for teachers, social workers, etc., increasing grants, and free community college, but beyond that?  No.

How do you feel about student loans being eligible to be wiped out in the case of bankruptcy proceedings?
I go back and forth on this.  What's to stop every college grad from declaring bankruptcy at 22?

What's to stop anyone from declaring bankruptcy?

ketchup

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #446 on: June 28, 2019, 02:20:15 PM »
I could see Buttigieg as President in another handful of years.  Harris is a favorite for so many reasons, though I must admit, I don't know if the country is ready for her (I'm open to being wrong!). I'd like her as VP this go around.  But, I didn't like the Biden shaming.  The party needs to show a more united front because it's going to be a tough race. 

My other issue is I think some of the candidates are too progressive for the political climate.  I believe we have Trump because we had Obama.  I know the pendulum will swing the other way, as it has done throughout history, but I don't think the best solution is to go from Trump to a far left candidate. 

Several people need to drop out.  I'd like to see this group do a debate together:  Biden, Booker, Buttigieg, Castro, Harris, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Warren.  From them, I'd like to see a Biden/Harris run.  I'm not sold on Biden, I just think people need another old white man before we see the next major shift forward.

I agree with Warrens' wealth tax idea, which could pay off student loans.
Some of these colleges are kind of administrative heavy, and I worry about wasteful spending.

I didn't finish my BS that long ago and it was hard work and took me longer than it should have, but why should all student loan debt be eliminated? 

I'm in favor of refinancing, loan forgiveness programs for teachers, social workers, etc., increasing grants, and free community college, but beyond that?  No.

How do you feel about student loans being eligible to be wiped out in the case of bankruptcy proceedings?
I go back and forth on this.  What's to stop every college grad from declaring bankruptcy at 22?

What's to stop anyone from declaring bankruptcy?
Fair enough.  It just seems like the obvious "out" if that were to become the way it worked.

Blueberries

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #447 on: June 28, 2019, 03:32:05 PM »
I could see Buttigieg as President in another handful of years.  Harris is a favorite for so many reasons, though I must admit, I don't know if the country is ready for her (I'm open to being wrong!). I'd like her as VP this go around.  But, I didn't like the Biden shaming.  The party needs to show a more united front because it's going to be a tough race. 

My other issue is I think some of the candidates are too progressive for the political climate.  I believe we have Trump because we had Obama.  I know the pendulum will swing the other way, as it has done throughout history, but I don't think the best solution is to go from Trump to a far left candidate. 

Several people need to drop out.  I'd like to see this group do a debate together:  Biden, Booker, Buttigieg, Castro, Harris, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Warren.  From them, I'd like to see a Biden/Harris run.  I'm not sold on Biden, I just think people need another old white man before we see the next major shift forward.

I agree with Warrens' wealth tax idea, which could pay off student loans.
Some of these colleges are kind of administrative heavy, and I worry about wasteful spending.

I didn't finish my BS that long ago and it was hard work and took me longer than it should have, but why should all student loan debt be eliminated? 

I'm in favor of refinancing, loan forgiveness programs for teachers, social workers, etc., increasing grants, and free community college, but beyond that?  No.

How do you feel about student loans being eligible to be wiped out in the case of bankruptcy proceedings?

Hmm, if most other debts are wiped, depending on the bankruptcy type, why can't you (general) pay your student loans?  I think it's a slippery slope.  Generally, no, I'm not in favor of it.  I do believe a lot of blame rests on universities increasing costs unnaturally, but I also think a lot of the blame rests on people for not doing their research.  There are ways to get a four year degree cheaper; you have to be creative, work hard, and be flexible.

SaucyAussie

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #448 on: June 28, 2019, 03:54:02 PM »
I have been a big Biden fan for a long time but watching Harris take him apart was an eye opener for me.  I can only imagine what Trump would do to him.

So it comes down to a gay man, a black woman, or a "socialist".  I like them all, but is America ready?

Samuel

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #449 on: June 28, 2019, 04:11:47 PM »
I was dismayed to see both Warren and Harris (who I like) joining Bernie to say they would support the elimination of private insurance as part of a "Medicare for all" plan. Harris apparently walked it back today saying she misunderstood the question, which doesn't sound quite right since after the first debate she must have known they'd ask that question.

That's exactly the kind of position that might help get you the nomination only to lose you the general election. It's not at all a popular idea outside of the bluest states.