Author Topic: 2020 POTUS Candidates  (Read 48488 times)

madgeylou

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #300 on: April 11, 2019, 08:08:00 AM »
Even though I really like Buttigieg (and think I was first to mention him in this thread),  I feel that there are a few perspectives that he lacks, which are the perspectives of being a minority, a woman, and a parent.  How important is it to have lived the life? Is that identity politics?

the most important perspective that he lacks is a PROGRESSIVE one. seems like his tenure as mayor didn't do shit to help the vulnerable communities in his town. has he ever spent any amount of time with folks who are not upper middle class and higher? people who don't typically attend harvard and oxford? listening to him talk, it doesn't seem like it.

Here is a wonderful non biased  article on how Buttigieg went in good faith, with a plan to deal with abandoned and uninhabitable properties. It was not that he decided to pick on a specific community...it was a major issue which those within the community acknowledged. After some criticism from those in the community in the methods, he immediately invited their input and amended his entire plan. He made himself available to his staunchest critic, who became his biggest supporter, and is now saying at the time she thought he should run from President someday. This was a black woman, part of the community, whoís own properties were slated to be demolished. She is now running for mayor, to fill his vacancy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/henrygomez/mayor-pete-buttigieg-south-bend-gentrification

I donít know how you can say he is not progressive. He is talking about possibly adding supreme court justices, and changing the whole selection format. And doing away with the electoral vote. He is also supports Medicare for all via a pathway of ďMedicare for all who want itĒ.  In regards to education reform, he wants more federal funding to go to title 1 schools located in communities that have been in poverty for 20 years or longer, And supports the creation federal service jobs/organizations (like JFK and the Peace Corps) as a mediary between high school and college, and possibly as a means of earning or being reimbursed, money for education.

What do you believe is progressive? Free tuition would be wonderful, but  not something we can go straight to, and there needs to be stipulations around it. This is where Bernie Sanders loses me. And personally the people who believe he can get that must not know how government works and the amount of cooperation and compromise that goes into even the smallest of changes.  Shit, Congress canít even agree to pass regulations that both sides agree with.

That's a great article and I appreciate your sharing it with me, though I think your characterization of the opinion the women mentioned in the article have of him is overly generous, based on what's in the piece. I got the sense that they got involved specifically because he was not taking their constituency's concerns into account in his zeal for 1000 homes in 1000 days, and they were pleasantly surprised that he listened, somewhat.

My point, though, is that a true progressive wouldn't need folks in vulnerable communities to tell him what's wrong with his policy after he'd already implemented it. A progressive would have gone and discussed those plans with the folks who'd be most impacted by them, before starting to raze houses. A progressive would have involved the community in deciding what the plan would be.

Buttigieg comes off to me as a business consultant from a very privileged background who loves data and being a wunderkind more than he cares about actual people. This article in particular resonates with me quite a bit. I'm willing to be proven wrong, though! The campaigns have only begun.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #301 on: April 11, 2019, 08:12:19 AM »
Mayor Pete looks to officially announce in South Bend this Sunday (he picked GoT day, which considering his nerdy background, I wonder if it's intentional?)

I'm tossing him another $37 (his age, and it also happens to be his average contribution (it's $36.25 but close enough).

And Pete is definitely the real life version of Ben Wyatt from Parks and Rec. He even loves nerdy board games! I identify with him on many levels.

Lmoot

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #302 on: April 11, 2019, 08:21:31 AM »
Even though I really like Buttigieg (and think I was first to mention him in this thread),  I feel that there are a few perspectives that he lacks, which are the perspectives of being a minority, a woman, and a parent.  How important is it to have lived the life? Is that identity politics?

the most important perspective that he lacks is a PROGRESSIVE one. seems like his tenure as mayor didn't do shit to help the vulnerable communities in his town. has he ever spent any amount of time with folks who are not upper middle class and higher? people who don't typically attend harvard and oxford? listening to him talk, it doesn't seem like it.

Here is a wonderful non biased  article on how Buttigieg went in good faith, with a plan to deal with abandoned and uninhabitable properties. It was not that he decided to pick on a specific community...it was a major issue which those within the community acknowledged. After some criticism from those in the community in the methods, he immediately invited their input and amended his entire plan. He made himself available to his staunchest critic, who became his biggest supporter, and is now saying at the time she thought he should run from President someday. This was a black woman, part of the community, whoís own properties were slated to be demolished. She is now running for mayor, to fill his vacancy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/henrygomez/mayor-pete-buttigieg-south-bend-gentrification

I donít know how you can say he is not progressive. He is talking about possibly adding supreme court justices, and changing the whole selection format. And doing away with the electoral vote. He is also supports Medicare for all via a pathway of ďMedicare for all who want itĒ.  In regards to education reform, he wants more federal funding to go to title 1 schools located in communities that have been in poverty for 20 years or longer, And supports the creation federal service jobs/organizations (like JFK and the Peace Corps) as a mediary between high school and college, and possibly as a means of earning or being reimbursed, money for education.

What do you believe is progressive? Free tuition would be wonderful, but  not something we can go straight to, and there needs to be stipulations around it. This is where Bernie Sanders loses me. And personally the people who believe he can get that must not know how government works and the amount of cooperation and compromise that goes into even the smallest of changes.  Shit, Congress canít even agree to pass regulations that both sides agree with.

That's a great article and I appreciate your sharing it with me, though I think your characterization of the opinion the women mentioned in the article have of him is overly generous, based on what's in the piece. I got the sense that they got involved specifically because he was not taking their constituency's concerns into account in his zeal for 1000 homes in 1000 days, and they were pleasantly surprised that he listened, somewhat.

My point, though, is that a true progressive wouldn't need folks in vulnerable communities to tell him what's wrong with his policy after he'd already implemented it. A progressive would have gone and discussed those plans with the folks who'd be most impacted by them, before starting to raze houses. A progressive would have involved the community in deciding what the plan would be.

Buttigieg comes off to me as a business consultant from a very privileged background who loves data and being a wunderkind more than he cares about actual people. This article in particular resonates with me quite a bit. I'm willing to be proven wrong, though! The campaigns have only begun.

Dude was 29/30 and in his first year of public office. In the moment and also looking back, he already acknowledged his mistake and not only did he work to correct it at the time as much as possible, but it informed him on how he should proceed in similar scenarios, in the future. He progressed. Literally. All of those things you mentioned that he should have done, while wonderful and I agree, is not the definition of a progressive. You can be an oppressive progressive. Everything I have heard read and seen from him tells me that he is not interested in using progression to press people, but rather to include people in the progress. One could argue that Hitler was progressive as hell.

I didnít intend to micharacterize anyone from the article. I hate twisted words so if I did that it was just based on things and the woman was quoted on:  ďYou very well could be president of the United States one day,Ē she recalled telling Buttigieg. ďAnd I feel like itís the responsibility of the people of South Bend to make sure youíre prepared for that.

I agree, I shouldnít take from that that she is or was necessarily a huge proponent of him.

I didnít have time to read the whole article you posted, but I read part of it and Iím interested by what I read so far, and have heard other people mention similar things. I specially like that it was written by someone who read his book. I have not yet. I will definitely read it and share my thoughts. Thank you
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 08:32:44 AM by Lmoot »

madgeylou

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #303 on: April 11, 2019, 08:55:38 AM »
@Lmoot I appreciate the dialog -- but "progressive" is a word with a meaning. A quick google turns this up as a definition: a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.

Meaning: Hitler was not progressive, he was REgressive. Oppression is not progressive. Wanting change of any sort is not progressive -- it's specifically liberal change.

I don't mean to say that I don't think Mayor Pete is a great guy -- I do. But I don't think he has the depth of experience or the listening ear that I want to see in a president ... especially coming from such a privileged background. Data is great but it has to go hand in hand with circling in all kinds of people when you are making decisions, otherwise you're just a tech bro, not a leader.

Lmoot

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #304 on: April 11, 2019, 09:19:22 AM »
@Lmoot I appreciate the dialog -- but "progressive" is a word with a meaning. A quick google turns this up as a definition: a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.

Meaning: Hitler was not progressive, he was REgressive. Oppression is not progressive. Wanting change of any sort is not progressive -- it's specifically liberal change.

I don't mean to say that I don't think Mayor Pete is a great guy -- I do. But I don't think he has the depth of experience or the listening ear that I want to see in a president ... especially coming from such a privileged background. Data is great but it has to go hand in hand with circling in all kinds of people when you are making decisions, otherwise you're just a tech bro, not a leader.

You are right about the word progressive in a political sense. I was using it incorrectly. I was thinking in terms of the definition of change. But yes, there should be a distinction when using it political context.

Itís too early for me to make a decision. And to your note Buttigieg has not been tested on the public stage. All I know is my horse shit radar doesnít go off nearly as much with him as it has with pretty much any other candidate. And that includes Obama who I truly respect.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #305 on: April 11, 2019, 09:57:37 PM »
Thanks madgeyLou for that article, it's a great counterpoint to the publicity Buttigieg has received lately.

I like Elizabeth Warren, specifically for her policy proposals for childcare expansion, and her efforts to help people get fairer treatment from the  financial industry.

madgeylou

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #306 on: April 12, 2019, 09:23:04 AM »
Thanks madgeyLou for that article, it's a great counterpoint to the publicity Buttigieg has received lately.

I like Elizabeth Warren, specifically for her policy proposals for childcare expansion, and her efforts to help people get fairer treatment from the  financial industry.

She's really the one bringing the heat from a policy point of view. It's like she's a musician who's been waiting to drop all these songs on the public for a long time. I find her intelligent and passionate and kind of adorably dorky and earnest and I am here for all of it. She's my #1 right now.

jrhampt

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #307 on: April 12, 2019, 05:00:16 PM »
I also really like Warren.  I thought this was an interesting profile on her:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/12/elizabeth-warren-profile-young-republican-2020-president-226613

Sheís probably my top pick so far (I also know more about her than many of the others).  Iíve also liked Buttigieg from the interviews Iíve heard, but if I had to pick between the two right now Iíd go with Warren.  With a Buttigieg VP maybe.

It does make me a little crazy that the top 3 in polls and/or fundraising right now are Biden, Beto, and Bernie.  There are so many other candidates to choose from.

powskier

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #308 on: April 12, 2019, 08:27:16 PM »
I like Andrew Yang, problem solver , zero interest in playing the identity politics game, likes math, would like capitalism to serve humanity better and want's to give every American over 18 $1000/month of UBI. That would put us in FIRE right away!
He will be in the Democratic debates.

powskier

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #309 on: April 12, 2019, 08:37:21 PM »
I'll take any Democrat we can get into office.
Agreed, although to be fair I'd even take George W at this stage, and I hate George W.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #310 on: April 13, 2019, 11:10:05 AM »
I'll take any Democrat we can get into office.
Agreed, although to be fair I'd even take George W at this stage, and I hate George W.

Wow that's saying something !

I'm looking at some polls and it seems like Biden and Sanders are 1st and 2nd in the polls, with 3rd being traded around between various 2nd tier candidates like Harris in California, Buttigieg, Warren, etc.

In the meantime Republicans are trying to define Democrats as Socialists against air travel and cow farms.

Lmoot

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #311 on: April 13, 2019, 11:21:44 AM »
Is anyone else predicting that a republican will break out and run, and the RNC will back them over Trump?

v8rx7guy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #312 on: April 13, 2019, 11:30:59 AM »
Is anyone else predicting that a republican will break out and run, and the RNC will back them over Trump?

I predicted in another thread that Trump won't run at all.  I think he does not enjoy being president, and there's no real point in doing another term in his mind.  He has achieved his goal of being the president and there's nothing left to gain.  He is probably heading into his last 10-15 years of his life, why spend 4 of them doing something he doesn't enjoy?

Pence will get Republican nomination
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 11:32:39 AM by v8rx7guy »

MonkeyJenga

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #313 on: April 13, 2019, 11:42:39 AM »
Yall, Trump filed his reelection campaign papers on Inauguration Day. He has already held rallies and fundraisers. He's not willingly going to give up his position as one of the most powerful people in the world.

Apple_Tango

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #314 on: April 13, 2019, 01:47:12 PM »
That last comment sent shivers down my spine. Iím glad we have 2-term limits for Prez!

JetBlast

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #315 on: April 13, 2019, 06:06:11 PM »
Is anyone else predicting that a republican will break out and run, and the RNC will back them over Trump?

I predicted in another thread that Trump won't run at all.  I think he does not enjoy being president, and there's no real point in doing another term in his mind.  He has achieved his goal of being the president and there's nothing left to gain.  He is probably heading into his last 10-15 years of his life, why spend 4 of them doing something he doesn't enjoy?
Sure thereís a point. To win re-election and prove that people like him and approve of him. One final middle finger to everyone that didnít recognize his brilliance. At least thatís how I assume he sees it.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #316 on: April 13, 2019, 06:26:13 PM »
Is anyone else predicting that a republican will break out and run, and the RNC will back them over Trump?

LOL, nope. They know enough of their base would be so furious at that they wouldn't vote.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #317 on: April 13, 2019, 09:06:22 PM »
Seems that a lot of the media really doesn't want Biden. Probably because Biden won't promise everyone $1000/month and a free puppy.

v8rx7guy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #318 on: April 13, 2019, 09:15:17 PM »
Seems that a lot of the media really doesn't want Biden. Probably because Biden won't promise everyone $1000/month and a free puppy.

And he is a straight white male.  Extra negative points because he is old.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #319 on: April 13, 2019, 09:47:59 PM »
Seems that a lot of the media really doesn't want Biden. Probably because Biden won't promise everyone $1000/month and a free puppy.

And he is a straight white male.  Extra negative points because he is old.

"Like, he doesn't even Snapchat. Ew."

sherr

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #320 on: April 15, 2019, 07:55:26 AM »
Is anyone else predicting that a republican will break out and run, and the RNC will back them over Trump?

I predicted in another thread that Trump won't run at all.  I think he does not enjoy being president, and there's no real point in doing another term in his mind.  He has achieved his goal of being the president and there's nothing left to gain.  He is probably heading into his last 10-15 years of his life, why spend 4 of them doing something he doesn't enjoy?

Pence will get Republican nomination

No, no one is predicting that because it's not remotely plausible. The Republican base loves Trump, never mind the fact that it's incredibly unlikely that any elected president would lose his nomination in the primaries. If Trump is running then there is a 0% chance they would nominate anyone else over him.

And as MonkeyJenga pointed out we already know that Trump is running again.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #321 on: April 15, 2019, 08:08:36 AM »
Well I had planned to wait until the debates to pick a fave, but Mayor Pete has won me over. My god, the man is so smart and articulate and calming. I admit to getting emotional during his announcement speech yesterday when he talked about speaking to his high school self. The man is a gifted communicator (I daresay he has an Obama-esque appeal). I am now emotionally and intellectually invested in him. I'm all in.

His freedom, security, democracy speech (which he wrote himself, didn't use a speechwriter) should be his "go to" speech on the campaign trail. As a left-leaning religious person, he can be someone who reclaims "freedom" and "security" from the GOP. I really think he can.

But I see the problem...

Other Dems are equally emotionally and intellectually invested in their faves already, which means that even though most of us (hopefully) will support the eventual nominee, it also means that, with SOOOOO many candidates, virtually all of us will end up being asked to support our second, or third, or even fourth preference.


Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #322 on: April 15, 2019, 08:28:43 AM »
Well I had planned to wait until the debates to pick a fave, but Mayor Pete has won me over. My god, the man is so smart and articulate and calming. I admit to getting emotional during his announcement speech yesterday when he talked about speaking to his high school self. The man is a gifted communicator (I daresay he has an Obama-esque appeal). I am now emotionally and intellectually invested in him. I'm all in.

His freedom, security, democracy speech (which he wrote himself, didn't use a speechwriter) should be his "go to" speech on the campaign trail. As a left-leaning religious person, he can be someone who reclaims "freedom" and "security" from the GOP. I really think he can.

But I see the problem...

Other Dems are equally emotionally and intellectually invested in their faves already, which means that even though most of us (hopefully) will support the eventual nominee, it also means that, with SOOOOO many candidates, virtually all of us will end up being asked to support our second, or third, or even fourth preference.

I'm really not invested in anyone, yet.

Can you tell me how you feel about the fact that Buttigieg, despite being apparently incredibly intelligent, etc. has only the experience of being the mayor of a medium-sized city? I just don't get it. I still kinda think experience is something Democrats should want in their presidential candidate.

wenchsenior

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #323 on: April 15, 2019, 08:29:33 AM »
Is anyone else predicting that a republican will break out and run, and the RNC will back them over Trump?

I predicted in another thread that Trump won't run at all.  I think he does not enjoy being president, and there's no real point in doing another term in his mind.  He has achieved his goal of being the president and there's nothing left to gain.  He is probably heading into his last 10-15 years of his life, why spend 4 of them doing something he doesn't enjoy?

Pence will get Republican nomination

No, no one is predicting that because it's not remotely plausible. The Republican base loves Trump, never mind the fact that it's incredibly unlikely that any elected president would lose his nomination in the primaries. If Trump is running then there is a 0% chance they would nominate anyone else over him.

And as MonkeyJenga pointed out we already know that Trump is running again.

I'd guess there is approximately a 2% chance of Trump not running. He's running already, in fact. The only way I could see it is if Trump was suddenly diagnosed with terminal illness. But I doubt that would stop him from running either.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #324 on: April 15, 2019, 08:54:16 AM »
Well I had planned to wait until the debates to pick a fave, but Mayor Pete has won me over. My god, the man is so smart and articulate and calming. I admit to getting emotional during his announcement speech yesterday when he talked about speaking to his high school self. The man is a gifted communicator (I daresay he has an Obama-esque appeal). I am now emotionally and intellectually invested in him. I'm all in.

His freedom, security, democracy speech (which he wrote himself, didn't use a speechwriter) should be his "go to" speech on the campaign trail. As a left-leaning religious person, he can be someone who reclaims "freedom" and "security" from the GOP. I really think he can.

But I see the problem...

Other Dems are equally emotionally and intellectually invested in their faves already, which means that even though most of us (hopefully) will support the eventual nominee, it also means that, with SOOOOO many candidates, virtually all of us will end up being asked to support our second, or third, or even fourth preference.

I'm really not invested in anyone, yet.

Can you tell me how you feel about the fact that Buttigieg, despite being apparently incredibly intelligent, etc. has only the experience of being the mayor of a medium-sized city? I just don't get it. I still kinda think experience is something Democrats should want in their presidential candidate.

I look at it like this...

1) His experience is executive. To me, that's more important than legislative experience, where your voice is one of many, and you ultimately aren't responsible for running anything, other than a small staff. When you run a city, the buck stops with you. So I think running a city for 8 years means something, and that many of those skills are probably more transferable to the presidential position than are legislative backgrounds. Would I prefer it had he been governor for a term or two? Yes, sure, I would. But no candidate is perfect.

2) We're fooling ourselves when we think/assume that ANYONE is really "ready" to be president. Everyone has to rely on subject matter experts once they are there, be they military experts, economic experts, etc. I think Pete is the type of guy who recognizes this and would surround himself with brilliant, data-driven subject matter experts. Can you imagine the type of Cabinet he would have? And Pete's raw intelligence makes him better equipped to "get up to speed" on most issues. (And yes, everyone has to "get up to speed.")

3) Much of being President is steering the boat. Making policy decisions for others to implement. I think Pete would excel at seeing the big picture where others wouldn't as much. He seems very calm and rational and introspective, all qualities I think are vastly underrated with candidates.

4) His worldviews and experience are important for a President to have. He's an east-coast educated guy with roots in the heartland. Check and check. He's gay, but also married and religious, while not being weird or intolerant re: religion, AND he actually acknowledges atheists when he says "and those who have no religion at all," which I REALLY appreciate. Check and check. He's a vet, and he's seen the first hand effects of war, and he values our veterans and their health. Check and check. He's liberal, but not a socialist. I think he can win.

I view the others as all having significant flaws too. Bernie is too old and too radical. I'm afraid he has tons of "communist papers" all through his history. He might be able to win, but I think Pete is a much better candidate. Biden's ship has sailed.  Too much baggage. O'Rourke seems like an empty suit after listening to Pete. Warren is professorial and will NEVER make a connection with voters like Pete can. Kamala Harris is my #2 now. I think she is strong.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 08:59:31 AM by Nick_Miller »

wenchsenior

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #325 on: April 15, 2019, 09:06:02 AM »
It's very early, but right now my personal preference would lean Warren/Mayor Pete or Harris/Mayor Pete. The problem is, I want a candidate that can win a lot more than I want a candidate I prefer.  I am not interested in Sanders, but I think he MIGHT be able to win. I'm quite sure a Warren ticket couldn't win, and a Harris ticket I am also unsure.  However, Dems seem to inexplicably adore O'Rourke, who maybe COULD win. So maybe he needs to top the ticket.  I'd vote for W over Trump at this point.  Hell, I might even vote for Ted Cruz over Trump at this point, and I loathe him and everything he stands for. 

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #326 on: April 15, 2019, 11:30:35 AM »
New Emerson (national) poll. Yes it's small with a huge (5%) margin of error, so yeah take it for what it's worth.

https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/april-national-poll-bernie-takes-lead-for-democratic-nomination-mayor-pete-on-the-move

Takeaways:

1) Biden has lot a little support, Bernie has moved into 1st, at least in this one.
2) Mayor Pete is in third place (barely).
3) If Biden doesn't run, Mayor Pete is in second place. Bernie widens his lead over the field by picking up the highest percentage of Biden's voters, but Pete(!) picks up more Biden supporters than any of the others.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 11:34:57 AM by Nick_Miller »

talltexan

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #327 on: April 15, 2019, 01:33:34 PM »
Those headlines about Trump already having raised $30 million?

Sure sounds to me like he wants people to know he's running. And he especially wants other possible Republican challengers to know not to bother.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #328 on: April 15, 2019, 03:54:53 PM »
Is anyone else predicting that a republican will break out and run, and the RNC will back them over Trump?

I'm not.  I predict Trump will cruise to the Republican nomination with ease.

However, I do note that former Governor Bill Weld has officially announced for the Republican nomination:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/15/politics/bill-weld-2020-trump/index.html

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #329 on: April 15, 2019, 06:58:49 PM »
Bill Weld has jumped into the pool.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/15/politics/bill-weld-2020-trump/index.html

He was the gov of Massachusetts and VP pick on the libertarian ticket in 2016 (how he ended up second tier to Johnson is a mystery to me). Will he be quickly squashed or actually put a dent in Trump?

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #330 on: April 16, 2019, 12:39:16 AM »
Well I had planned to wait until the debates to pick a fave, but Mayor Pete has won me over. My god, the man is so smart and articulate and calming. I admit to getting emotional during his announcement speech yesterday when he talked about speaking to his high school self. The man is a gifted communicator (I daresay he has an Obama-esque appeal). I am now emotionally and intellectually invested in him. I'm all in.

I suspect the biggest question now regarding Buttigieg is whether he can stick with the approach that's caused people to like him so much. The best historical example of failure along these lines is Howard Dean in 2003/4. Once he got popular, he started trying to appeal to the broader electorate (rather than the anti-war etc. contingent who'd lifted him to prominence) and it immediately backfired because it seemed inauthentic. I'm still grouchy with him about that.

Lmoot

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #331 on: April 16, 2019, 04:06:39 AM »
Well I had planned to wait until the debates to pick a fave, but Mayor Pete has won me over. My god, the man is so smart and articulate and calming. I admit to getting emotional during his announcement speech yesterday when he talked about speaking to his high school self. The man is a gifted communicator (I daresay he has an Obama-esque appeal). I am now emotionally and intellectually invested in him. I'm all in.

I suspect the biggest question now regarding Buttigieg is whether he can stick with the approach that's caused people to like him so much. The best historical example of failure along these lines is Howard Dean in 2003/4. Once he got popular, he started trying to appeal to the broader electorate (rather than the anti-war etc. contingent who'd lifted him to prominence) and it immediately backfired because it seemed inauthentic. I'm still grouchy with him about that.

I'm worried about this same thing. I also don't like big media falling all over him and the "talent show" angle they keep pushing (speaking different languages, concert pianist). Not because it's not interesting to me because it is. But it's just not what the majority care about, and actually may turn off some in this age where many are too fanatic or lazy to do their own research, and instead default to oppositional voting.  It does not appear that the left-leaning media learned their lesson in the last election, that forcefully pushing their favorite candidate (and I get it, I really like the guy too), is not the way to go. Just give the news, and trust if people like what they hear they will follow up on their own, but no one likes being hand held, even those who agree.

The same with celebrities. They need to stay the eff away from Buttigieg (and he away from them). This is not about you the celebrity, or the media...it's about we the people and our candidates.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #332 on: April 17, 2019, 08:48:06 PM »
Buttigieg will have to convincingly link his own struggles of being an outsider to other groups such as women's rights, minority rights, and the advancement of working class people.
Not sure he can do that.   I know Bernie Sanders is working toward that regard, which may explain his reluctance at releasing his tax returns which revealed the million dollar book deal.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #333 on: April 19, 2019, 07:59:52 AM »
Fascinating takeaway from one of the newer polls.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldurkheimer/2019/04/17/5-weird-items-in-the-new-bernie-buttigieg-poll/#7b87ac897ddd

A few eye-opening tidbits...

26% of current Bernie Sanders supporters said that they would rather vote for President Donald Trump over Senator Elizabeth Warren, if that were the eventual 2020 matchup.

I really don't get these 26%. How do you logically go from, "Okay I support Bernie's policies of living wage for all, higher taxes on the 1 percent, Medicare for all" to..."MAGA!!" ??

I mean...HOW? I really wish I understood the logic there, because these are the people who might flip flop either way on the general election depending on the Dem candidate.


While 100% of Buttigiegís supporters said they would support Bernie against Trump (if that were the General Election matchup), only 79% of Bernieís supporters said they would vote for Buttigieg over Trump in a General Election.

And they treat Pete the same way (almost) as they treat Warren. WTH? Is the takeway that Pete supporters are pragmatic with their eyes on the big picture (beating Trump) while a quarter of Bernie supporters will bolt if they don't get their way?

Do any Bernie supporters on the forum feel this way? If so, could you share your thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 08:17:52 AM by Nick_Miller »

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #334 on: April 19, 2019, 08:32:26 AM »
Fascinating takeaway from one of the newer polls.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldurkheimer/2019/04/17/5-weird-items-in-the-new-bernie-buttigieg-poll/#7b87ac897ddd

A few eye-opening tidbits...

26% of current Bernie Sanders supporters said that they would rather vote for President Donald Trump over Senator Elizabeth Warren, if that were the eventual 2020 matchup.

I really don't get these 26%. How do you logically go from, "Okay I support Bernie's policies of living wage for all, higher taxes on the 1 percent, Medicare for all" to..."MAGA!!" ??

I mean...HOW? I really wish I understood the logic there, because these are the people who might flip flop either way on the general election depending on the Dem candidate.


While 100% of Buttigiegís supporters said they would support Bernie against Trump (if that were the General Election matchup), only 79% of Bernieís supporters said they would vote for Buttigieg over Trump in a General Election.

And they treat Pete the same way (almost) as they treat Warren. WTH? Is the takeway that Pete supporters are pragmatic with their eyes on the big picture (beating Trump) while a quarter of Bernie supporters will bolt if they don't get their way?

Do any Bernie supporters on the forum feel this way? If so, could you share your thoughts?

Bernie is about Bernie. He's not a Democrat, and he has done very little for the party except to not join it but still expect its money and infrastructure to help him when he runs for president.

He waited a hell of a long time to endorse Hillary, signaling very clearly in 2016 to his supporters that his support for a Democratic nominee other than himself was not automatic. I frankly am not hugely surprised that this "logic" motivates a not insubstantial part of his fan base. (Guessing they are mostly men, and mostly white, and mostly straight.)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 08:43:00 AM by Kris »

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #335 on: April 19, 2019, 09:46:48 AM »
From my witnessing, many Bernie voters are ďBernie or BustĒ. The DNC vastly underrated how detested Clinton was (or relied on the assumption that Trump was detested more), and the underhanded methods they used to get her through the primary only exacerbated that for anti-Clinton and Bernie fans, Iíd imagine.

I wonder since Bernie is widely considered not a Democrat, if that is also why Hillary won the primary since several states only let registered parties vote in primaries, And I imagine many of his potential voters were/are outside of major party affiliations, and unable to vote unless they updated their registration.

Now with Biden expected to jump in within the next week, there is no telling how this is going to go. The Democratic primary race is going to be just as nailbiting is the presidential one. Since there was radio silence on Biden for sometime, thatís how we ended up with polls already trying to predict where Bidenís supporters would go. If Biden jumps in though, and now it looks like he will, it changes the game drastically.

Itís no secret that even after the backlash of 2016, the DNC is annoyed by Bernie Sanders and wishes he would just go away. I imagine they do not like that his radical/socialist are being drawn using Democrat ink, not too much unlike Trumpís pseudo-republican persona is being represented as republican.

I just canít wait for the day that the electoral college is gone, and major parties are redefined as merely radical fringes. And every single American can just vote for the person they believe has the best ideas and is the best fit for President.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #336 on: April 19, 2019, 09:58:44 AM »
There are misogynists on the left of politics as well as the right.  Any straight white male rather than a woman, right?

They probably won't admit it, though.  Quite possibly, not even to themselves.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #337 on: April 19, 2019, 09:59:30 AM »
I just canít wait for the day that the electoral college is gone, and major parties are redefined as merely radical fringes. And every single American can just vote for the person they believe has the best ideas and is the best fit for President.
... and ranked choice voting so that voters are less pressured to use game theory to choose whom to vote for.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #338 on: April 19, 2019, 10:08:54 AM »
There are misogynists on the left of politics as well as the right.  Any straight white male rather than a woman, right?

They probably won't admit it, though.  Quite possibly, not even to themselves.

You may be right, but we'd have to extend that to "misogynists and homophobes" to account for the Warren/Buttigieg data listed in the article. But you bring up a good point, and I'd like to see if the same 26%-21% chunk would also refuse to back straight white men like Biden or O'Rourke. 

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #339 on: April 19, 2019, 06:26:32 PM »
Is anyone else predicting that a republican will break out and run, and the RNC will back them over Trump?

I predicted in another thread that Trump won't run at all.  I think he does not enjoy being president, and there's no real point in doing another term in his mind.  He has achieved his goal of being the president and there's nothing left to gain.  He is probably heading into his last 10-15 years of his life, why spend 4 of them doing something he doesn't enjoy?
Sure thereís a point. To win re-election and prove that people like him and approve of him. One final middle finger to everyone that didnít recognize his brilliance. At least thatís how I assume he sees it.

Another point: to stay out of jail. He can't be indicted as long as he's a sitting president.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #340 on: April 19, 2019, 10:44:02 PM »
The DNC vastly underrated how detested Clinton was (or relied on the assumption that Trump was detested more), and the underhanded methods they used to get her through the primary only exacerbated that for anti-Clinton and Bernie fans, Iíd imagine.

Clinton "got through the primary" by "winning more votes" in "elections." The 2008 primary was far closer than 2016. She didn't need any help.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #341 on: April 20, 2019, 12:45:48 AM »
The DNC vastly underrated how detested Clinton was (or relied on the assumption that Trump was detested more), and the underhanded methods they used to get her through the primary only exacerbated that for anti-Clinton and Bernie fans, Iíd imagine.

Clinton "got through the primary" by "winning more votes" in "elections." The 2008 primary was far closer than 2016. She didn't need any help.


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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #342 on: April 20, 2019, 04:10:13 AM »
The DNC vastly underrated how detested Clinton was (or relied on the assumption that Trump was detested more), and the underhanded methods they used to get her through the primary only exacerbated that for anti-Clinton and Bernie fans, Iíd imagine.

Clinton "got through the primary" by "winning more votes" in "elections." The 2008 primary was far closer than 2016. She didn't need any help.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Committee_email_leak

Btw I supported Hilary, simply for the fact that I thought she could win against Trump.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 04:12:33 AM by Lmoot »

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #343 on: April 22, 2019, 09:21:32 AM »
Now that we're seeing Elizabeth Warren unleash her policy shop, I continue to wonder why she didn't challenge Clinton in 2016. Sanders' success was proof that there was room to challenge Clinton from the left. Perhaps she could have been a less sore loser than Sanders, or--perhaps--she would have been challenging Trump in the general election, and not have been uniquely vulnerable because of her public marriage problems.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #344 on: April 22, 2019, 06:28:59 PM »
CNN is having like a five hour town hall thing tonight.  Klobuchar just finished; Warren is on now.  Sanders, Harris, and Buttigieg are up in the next several hours.  It looks like it is one hour per candidate.

After watching it so far, I like Klobuchar more than I did before and I like Warren less than I did before.

Also, news reports are that Biden is going to run but has pushed back his entry into the race from Wednesday to not sure when.  No explanation as to why that I heard.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 06:59:53 PM by secondcor521 »

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #345 on: April 22, 2019, 07:28:38 PM »
thanks for posting about that.  I'm listening to Bernie Sanders and he does have more energy than I expected.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #346 on: April 22, 2019, 07:42:54 PM »
thanks for posting about that.  I'm listening to Bernie Sanders and he does have more energy than I expected.

I donít know why, but that made me lol.

Iíve been watching the Townhall since the beginning. I never really heard much from Klobuchar, or Warren other than when I read her finance book she wrote with her daughter. I was impressed with both, especially their earnestness. I truly believe they feel moved to run for president and itís not merely an end goal or a power grab.  Iím leaning a little more towards Warren out of the bunch Iíve seen so far. I respect Sanders and also feel he is genuine. But I donít think half of his ideas would pass through legislation. And I really donít think tuition should be 100% free, at least not anytime soon. Not until we can get the high school graduation level up for all students and communities. Even just the fact that someone is in the position to go to college, is a privilege above many who struggle from grade school on. Also I donít like the idea of paying for someone to go to school, whose family could afford to pay. I understand he is probably most likely referring to state colleges or vouchers to private colleges. That is a possibility I suppose.

I donít care that he is a millionaire. Someone at his age with a six-figure plus income all of these yearsÖ I would be suspicious if he wasnít and would question his money management skills. Also, heís just too old in my opinion. I canít get over the fact that if he were to become president, by the end of his second term he would be nearly 90. And Iím sitting here trying to picture someone at that age, flitting around internationally to meet with world leaders, or even traveling frequently within the states, to meet with local leaders and communities during national disasters.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #347 on: April 23, 2019, 07:09:08 AM »
Takeaways from the Town Hall...

Klobuchar - In all fairness, I only saw about 15 minutes total, in small chunks. She seemed low energy to me. I was not impressed.

Warren - Twitter said she nailed it, but I only saw about 20 minutes total, in small chunks. She is very bright, no question, and I do like her. I just don't know if she connects with voters. I don't know that some of her proposals like paying off most student loan debt are doable. She didn't answer several questions, including the "Name one way you are different than Obama" one. She just launched into a story about how he refused to throw her and Consumer Protection under the bus.

Bernie - I watched the whole thing. Age is catching up to him. He'd be 79 by next year's general election. That means he either voluntarily offers to be a one-termer, which makes him a lame duck from the beginning, or else he'd be 87 years old at end of a second term. That seems to be a problem. Not much new from him overall I appreciate his convictions (like on arguing that presently incarcerated should be able to vote), and I think the 'millionaire' argument against him is ridiculous. I still love Bernie but I'm not backing him in the primary anymore.

Harris - I was underwhelmed. She seemed very nervous and rehearsed, while not actually saying a whole lot. Too many answers seemed to end with "let's study that" or "we need to have a conversation about that." I understand that none of these people are going to have an answer for every single possible question in the world, but she seemed to fall back on those lines a lot. I appreciate her strong anti-gun violence stance, and I do think she would be tough(er) for Trump to ridicule.

Buttigieg - I thought he was the most impressive. Answered questions instead of pivoting. Just a superior speaker, almost ridiculously so. He seems honest and admits that he screwed up on the house razing issues in South Bend. I don't know what all the candidates' IQs are but, damn, I can't believe he wouldn't be at or near the top. And the young crowd adored him. He is going to start pulling some of Bernie's youth vote away, no question. I do wish Pete would have shown a bit more energy, but I know he had a 5am event that morning so I thought he did a great job standing and engaging and really not missing a beat. (Oh and he had the best line of the night)

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #348 on: April 23, 2019, 07:37:41 AM »
That means he either voluntarily offers to be a one-termer, which makes him a lame duck from the beginning,

Complete nit-pick, but "lame duck" refers to the two months or so between when your successor has been elected and when you actually leave office. The Republicans tried to re-define it to be longer to justify ignoring Obama's supreme court pick for a year, and I find it annoying that they largely succeeded. There's nothing inherently wrong with being a one-term anything if that's your goal.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #349 on: April 23, 2019, 08:01:04 AM »
That means he either voluntarily offers to be a one-termer, which makes him a lame duck from the beginning,

Complete nit-pick, but "lame duck" refers to the two months or so between when your successor has been elected and when you actually leave office. The Republicans tried to re-define it to be longer to justify ignoring Obama's supreme court pick for a year, and I find it annoying that they largely succeeded. There's nothing inherently wrong with being a one-term anything if that's your goal.

True. The phrase is also used sometimes to describe the last year or so of a President's term when she/he cannot run again. My point, not very well made I admit, was that presidents these days start running for reelection almost immediately when they take office. The election cycle gets longer and longer. I think Bernie would have to communicate pretty early in his term whether or not he was going to seek re-election or whether he would hand the baton to his vp.