Author Topic: 2020 POTUS Candidates  (Read 292323 times)

jim555

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2442
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2950 on: April 11, 2020, 09:14:05 AM »
I pointed out that the way our system is supposed to operate there should be nearly 11,000 members of Congress. It would allow for the formation of a socialist coalition, Democrat coalition, Republican and a Libertarian coalition.

It would be easier to remove the artificial cap on Congress members rather than trying to amend the constitution.

And before anyone says "that would be too unwieldy to work", well, welcome to democracy I guess. All the solutions I see being offered will keep an oligarchy in place. You would just prefer your oligarchs.
Why would the current parties want more parties, that would dilute their power, so not going to happen.  It is still first past the post and not proportional so I don't see minor parties getting a lot of seats in this new scheme.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 09:17:15 AM by jim555 »

Poundwise

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1661
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2951 on: April 11, 2020, 09:36:47 PM »
Instead of declaring dissatisfaction by voting third party in the general, why not vote for the Dem primary candidate you liked best (if your state has not voted yet)? All the suspended candidates who dropped out later will still be on the ballot; or you can write them in.  Their delegates will not be wasted at the DNC (if it happens).

Give your favorite candidate the pull they need to get their platform adopted... or chosen as veep candidate. Then vote for Biden and his (hopefully younger, competent, and reform minded) running mate.

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3335
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2952 on: April 12, 2020, 08:59:59 PM »
I have never understood folks who want to vote third party for Presidential elections.  Local/state elections, sure, I could see a third party candidate maaaaybe making a difference here and there.  But voting third party for President is like saying you don't like either of the teams that made the Superbowl, so you're going to vote for a third team's quarterback to be on the field.  Even if by some miracle that person actually got into the game, they have no team backing them--no matter how pure/smart their intentions, they're still just going to get flattened by both sides.

Of course, by the same token I've never understood folks who refuse to vote because they 'want to send a message' to the Democrat/Republican party that they don't approve of what they're doing.  I mean, if you don't vote, then literally the only message you're sending to any politician is that they don't have to care about what you think, and DEFINITELY don't have to listen to what you want.

You are getting it.  The only thing good about most Super Bowls is the short half-time show and the new TV ads.  Send in that unknown quarterback and there will be some real excitement.  You won't be seeing the same plays you've seen all season.

If Mr. Biden wants my vote, what is he going to give me?

I think you're misunderstanding my metaphor.  Even if by some miracle, you got your third-party quarterback--in this analogy, they are literally on the field without a team.  And two other full teams (maybe minus their quarterbacks, if you want to be fair), would still be on the field, and literally running OVER your third-party quarterback to get possession of the ball.

Your miracle President could promise you the moon, the earth and stars, and they still wouldn't be able to get anything done--because there is no third party that controls enough of Congress to make them want to work with that President.  That is the way our system works.  Would I like to see that change?  Sure!  But it's not easy, it's not going to happen overnight, and in the meantime I'm not going to hold my breath and vote for an ineffective candidate as a vain attempt at virtue-signalling.

If any of the third parties were TRULY serious about taking the Presidency--whether the Green Party, the Democratic Socialists, the Libertarians, whatever--they would be out there doing grassroots organizing and running serious, viable candidates for EVERY local, county and state election in all 50 states before they ever touched anything higher than that.  But they don't.  And until that changes, I see no reason to take them seriously as a viable alternative to the Democrats or the Republicans.

Youíre forgetting a couple of key points:

1.  Many people live in states where the election is a foregone conclusion; voting third party is no big deal because my state is going to vote blue nationally every time, no harm in voting third party in IL.

2.  For third parties, getting over a certain voting threshold gives the third party certain benefits; even if you ďthrow awayĒ your vote short term, the more support third parties get the more of a foothold they are able to make.

gentmach

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 391
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2953 on: April 12, 2020, 09:00:46 PM »
I pointed out that the way our system is supposed to operate there should be nearly 11,000 members of Congress. It would allow for the formation of a socialist coalition, Democrat coalition, Republican and a Libertarian coalition.

It would be easier to remove the artificial cap on Congress members rather than trying to amend the constitution.

And before anyone says "that would be too unwieldy to work", well, welcome to democracy I guess. All the solutions I see being offered will keep an oligarchy in place. You would just prefer your oligarchs.
Why would the current parties want more parties, that would dilute their power, so not going to happen.  It is still first past the post and not proportional so I don't see minor parties getting a lot of seats in this new scheme.

All of you are shooting for an amendment to the constitution which is a far larger mountain to climb than forcing the two parties to repeal a law.

Are you suggesting that no where in the country there is a district where socialists can win in a three way race between Democrats, Republicans and socialists? Then why are you all flipping your shit? If you can't win a single district that is not the systems fault.

jim555

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2442
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2954 on: April 13, 2020, 01:13:42 PM »
Sanders is Ridin with Biden now...

Sanders endorses Biden
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/13/sanders-endorses-biden-183961


Glenstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2669
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2955 on: April 13, 2020, 01:32:04 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on these allegations against Biden?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=878867469&imp_id=429747654&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage

From the NYT lede:
Quote
Ms. Reade, a former Senate aide, has accused Mr. Biden of assaulting her in 1993 and says she told others about it. A Biden spokeswoman said the allegation is false, and former Senate office staff members do not recall such an incident.

Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5668
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2956 on: April 13, 2020, 01:56:11 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on these allegations against Biden?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=878867469&imp_id=429747654&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage

From the NYT lede:
Quote
Ms. Reade, a former Senate aide, has accused Mr. Biden of assaulting her in 1993 and says she told others about it. A Biden spokeswoman said the allegation is false, and former Senate office staff members do not recall such an incident.

There was an article on this forum that someone posted a couple of weeks ago -- not long after I had just heard Tara Reade's name for the first time -- that did, I think, a very decent job talking about how and why her story doesn't seem to have been picked up by many reputable news sources. I've been trying to find it. Maybe whoever posted it will post it again.

Edit: Ah! I found it.
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/31/a-woman-accuses-joe-biden-of-sexual-assault-and-all-hell-breaks-loose-online-heres-what-we-know/
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 01:58:11 PM by Kris »

Glenstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2669
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2957 on: April 13, 2020, 02:37:32 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on these allegations against Biden?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=878867469&imp_id=429747654&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage

From the NYT lede:
Quote
Ms. Reade, a former Senate aide, has accused Mr. Biden of assaulting her in 1993 and says she told others about it. A Biden spokeswoman said the allegation is false, and former Senate office staff members do not recall such an incident.

There was an article on this forum that someone posted a couple of weeks ago -- not long after I had just heard Tara Reade's name for the first time -- that did, I think, a very decent job talking about how and why her story doesn't seem to have been picked up by many reputable news sources. I've been trying to find it. Maybe whoever posted it will post it again.

Edit: Ah! I found it.
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/31/a-woman-accuses-joe-biden-of-sexual-assault-and-all-hell-breaks-loose-online-heres-what-we-know/

That was a good article, and seems in line with the NYT reporting. It seems that it is a report from a person who was in Biden's office at the time cited, but that the report isn't that easy to vet, and people who should be able to confirm the secondary reporting of it can't. I don't know how big the kernel of truth is, and how much of it gives creedence to the red flags. Reade seems to have an active imagination, but that doesn't let us know if the claims are true or not, or inflated or not if there is a half truth out there.

At the end of the day, I still wish we had Warren in the oval office... like right now.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13562
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2958 on: April 13, 2020, 02:43:31 PM »
Quote
At the end of the day, I still wish we had Warren in the oval office... like right now.

Right now I wish we had a potted plant in charge. At least a plant would not be tweeting dumb stuff and otherwise making the response worse.

gentmach

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 391
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2959 on: April 13, 2020, 03:21:06 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on these allegations against Biden?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=878867469&imp_id=429747654&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage

From the NYT lede:
Quote
Ms. Reade, a former Senate aide, has accused Mr. Biden of assaulting her in 1993 and says she told others about it. A Biden spokeswoman said the allegation is false, and former Senate office staff members do not recall such an incident.

Something something Russian Bots something something election interference.

Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5668
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2960 on: April 13, 2020, 03:53:11 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on these allegations against Biden?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=878867469&imp_id=429747654&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage

From the NYT lede:
Quote
Ms. Reade, a former Senate aide, has accused Mr. Biden of assaulting her in 1993 and says she told others about it. A Biden spokeswoman said the allegation is false, and former Senate office staff members do not recall such an incident.

Something something Russian Bots something something election interference.

????

Can you point me toward any people on the left saying this Tara Reade thing is the work of Russian bots?

I mean, she is an actual person...

gentmach

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 391
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2961 on: April 13, 2020, 04:38:04 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on these allegations against Biden?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=878867469&imp_id=429747654&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage

From the NYT lede:
Quote
Ms. Reade, a former Senate aide, has accused Mr. Biden of assaulting her in 1993 and says she told others about it. A Biden spokeswoman said the allegation is false, and former Senate office staff members do not recall such an incident.

Something something Russian Bots something something election interference.

????

Can you point me toward any people on the left saying this Tara Reade thing is the work of Russian bots?

I mean, she is an actual person...

It's only a matter of time.

Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5668
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2962 on: April 13, 2020, 04:43:19 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on these allegations against Biden?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=878867469&imp_id=429747654&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage

From the NYT lede:
Quote
Ms. Reade, a former Senate aide, has accused Mr. Biden of assaulting her in 1993 and says she told others about it. A Biden spokeswoman said the allegation is false, and former Senate office staff members do not recall such an incident.

Something something Russian Bots something something election interference.

????

Can you point me toward any people on the left saying this Tara Reade thing is the work of Russian bots?

I mean, she is an actual person...

It's only a matter of time.

Ah, I see.

So no real reason, then.

gentmach

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 391
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2963 on: April 13, 2020, 05:45:49 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on these allegations against Biden?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=878867469&imp_id=429747654&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage

From the NYT lede:
Quote
Ms. Reade, a former Senate aide, has accused Mr. Biden of assaulting her in 1993 and says she told others about it. A Biden spokeswoman said the allegation is false, and former Senate office staff members do not recall such an incident.

Something something Russian Bots something something election interference.

????

Can you point me toward any people on the left saying this Tara Reade thing is the work of Russian bots?

I mean, she is an actual person...

It's only a matter of time.

Ah, I see.

So no real reason, then.

Once the Bernie Bros stop threatening to burn down everything, the DNC will work to discredit Tara Reade.

sui generis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1675
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2964 on: April 13, 2020, 06:21:35 PM »
Y'all, Jill Karofsky, the liberal candidate for the WI Supreme Court, just declared victory in the election from last Tuesday.  Not great news for the Republicans in WI for November.  She outperformed expectations in lots of counties. And this despite only having 5 polling stations in Milwaukee.  I have no doubt they'll come up with even better voter suppression tactics in the next 6 months, but for now, I'll take a moment of happiness and hope this result holds!

Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5668
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2965 on: April 13, 2020, 07:18:31 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on these allegations against Biden?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=878867469&imp_id=429747654&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage

From the NYT lede:
Quote
Ms. Reade, a former Senate aide, has accused Mr. Biden of assaulting her in 1993 and says she told others about it. A Biden spokeswoman said the allegation is false, and former Senate office staff members do not recall such an incident.

Something something Russian Bots something something election interference.

????

Can you point me toward any people on the left saying this Tara Reade thing is the work of Russian bots?

I mean, she is an actual person...

It's only a matter of time.

Ah, I see.

So no real reason, then.

Once the Bernie Bros stop threatening to burn down everything, the DNC will work to discredit Tara Reade.

Gentmach, do you suppose you could stop speaking in winks and nudges? Because maybe Iím obtuse, but I am really not following your logic.

bacchi

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5017
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2966 on: April 13, 2020, 07:29:18 PM »
Y'all, Jill Karofsky, the liberal candidate for the WI Supreme Court, just declared victory in the election from last Tuesday.  Not great news for the Republicans in WI for November.  She outperformed expectations in lots of counties. And this despite only having 5 polling stations in Milwaukee.  I have no doubt they'll come up with even better voter suppression tactics in the next 6 months, but for now, I'll take a moment of happiness and hope this result holds!

Kelly conceded so a lawsuit may not be in the works.

Two interesting comments from the NYT analyst chat:

1) Even in traditionally conservative Washington county, Kelly won but by far fewer votes than another conservative judge only last year.

2) Trump endorsed Kelly and tweeted about him (twice!) on election day. It didn't help. Karofsky is just the 2nd challenger to win a SC seat in 50 years.

Maybe the Republicans should've agreed to a delay? It's possible that covid scared away their older voters.

jim555

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2442
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2967 on: April 14, 2020, 11:57:45 AM »
Obama is Ridin with Biden...

President Barack Obama endorses Joe Biden For President
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-s3ANu4eMs

sui generis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1675
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2968 on: April 14, 2020, 02:01:26 PM »
Y'all, Jill Karofsky, the liberal candidate for the WI Supreme Court, just declared victory in the election from last Tuesday.  Not great news for the Republicans in WI for November.  She outperformed expectations in lots of counties. And this despite only having 5 polling stations in Milwaukee.  I have no doubt they'll come up with even better voter suppression tactics in the next 6 months, but for now, I'll take a moment of happiness and hope this result holds!

Kelly conceded so a lawsuit may not be in the works.

Two interesting comments from the NYT analyst chat:

1) Even in traditionally conservative Washington county, Kelly won but by far fewer votes than another conservative judge only last year.

2) Trump endorsed Kelly and tweeted about him (twice!) on election day. It didn't help. Karofsky is just the 2nd challenger to win a SC seat in 50 years.

Maybe the Republicans should've agreed to a delay? It's possible that covid scared away their older voters.

Yeah, seems like Republicans might have own-goaled by blocking/discouraging some of their own people from voting.  I hope that teaches them a lesson about not providing for mail-in balloting, particularly in a pandemic.

pecunia

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2969 on: April 14, 2020, 06:09:31 PM »
Quote
At the end of the day, I still wish we had Warren in the oval office... like right now.

Right now I wish we had a potted plant in charge. At least a plant would not be tweeting dumb stuff and otherwise making the response worse.

For growth, stability and a green new deal vote "potted plant" this November.

Who will "potted plant" pick as the running mate?  Pundits give their opinions.

When asked about improvements in the nation's health care potted plant was silent on the subject.

In the debate between potted plant and Donald Trump, it has been generally conceded that potted plant was more truthful.

Glenstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2669
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2970 on: April 14, 2020, 06:15:53 PM »
Quote
At the end of the day, I still wish we had Warren in the oval office... like right now.

Right now I wish we had a potted plant in charge. At least a plant would not be tweeting dumb stuff and otherwise making the response worse.

For growth, stability and a green new deal vote "potted plant" this November.

Who will "potted plant" pick as the running mate?  Pundits give their opinions.

When asked about improvements in the nation's health care potted plant was silent on the subject.

In the debate between potted plant and Donald Trump, it has been generally conceded that potted plant was more truthful.
LOL. Well done.

jim555

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2442
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2971 on: April 14, 2020, 06:34:04 PM »
We would have the Affordable Care Act with improvements vs. ACA gets gutted.
Supreme Court (and all courts) gets decent justices vs. gets packed with lackey shills.

To imply there is no big difference between Trump and Biden is absurd.

Davnasty

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2582
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2972 on: April 14, 2020, 09:35:01 PM »

Who will "potted plant" pick as the running mate?  Pundits give their opinions.


I expect he'll choose a ficus to pull in the suburban fig >45 demographic

Fireball

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2973 on: April 15, 2020, 10:17:38 AM »
Y'all, Jill Karofsky, the liberal candidate for the WI Supreme Court, just declared victory in the election from last Tuesday.  Not great news for the Republicans in WI for November.  She outperformed expectations in lots of counties. And this despite only having 5 polling stations in Milwaukee.  I have no doubt they'll come up with even better voter suppression tactics in the next 6 months, but for now, I'll take a moment of happiness and hope this result holds!

Kelly conceded so a lawsuit may not be in the works.

Two interesting comments from the NYT analyst chat:

1) Even in traditionally conservative Washington county, Kelly won but by far fewer votes than another conservative judge only last year.

2) Trump endorsed Kelly and tweeted about him (twice!) on election day. It didn't help. Karofsky is just the 2nd challenger to win a SC seat in 50 years.

Maybe the Republicans should've agreed to a delay? It's possible that covid scared away their older voters.

Yeah, seems like Republicans might have own-goaled by blocking/discouraging some of their own people from voting.  I hope that teaches them a lesson about not providing for mail-in balloting, particularly in a pandemic.

Yes. When a big part of the GOP base is 60+ years old, asking them to come out, vote and face possible death is a bit much.  Evidently, they thought so too.  It will be closer in November, but still a good sign for Dems. 

Bateaux

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1840
  • Location: Port Vincent
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2974 on: April 19, 2020, 12:46:15 AM »
Alrighty my butt-hurt for Bernie is subsiding.  I can now vote for Biden.  I won't be excited about it but, damnit we have to remove that incompetent POS in our Whitehouse.

pecunia

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2975 on: April 19, 2020, 04:29:21 PM »
Alrighty my butt-hurt for Bernie is subsiding.  I can now vote for Biden.  I won't be excited about it but, damnit we have to remove that incompetent POS in our Whitehouse.

Yeah,.......Once again you are right, but don't make it too easy for Mr. Biden.  Make him earn your vote by promising some good improvements for the country and after he is elected hold his feet to the fire.  Also - Give him a Democratic Congress so that the improvements are possible.

If there is a Democratic president and Congress, it will force the Republicans to ask WTF and then clean up their act.  I think they need it.

Bloop Bloop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2140
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2976 on: April 19, 2020, 04:55:03 PM »
I like Biden's policies.

Sanders was way too economically progressive for my liking.

pecunia

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2977 on: April 19, 2020, 08:09:01 PM »
Uh huh

Bloop Bloop from Melbourne, huh?  hmmm

https://www.health.gov.au/about-us/the-australian-health-system

Jeepers!  the description says Australia not only provides health care to Aussies, but Kiwi people too.

too economically progressive?  You know even after this current virus thing is done, there are chances of catching vile diseases like tuberculosis from some poor wretched homeless man asking for a dollar because he (or she) has no access to affordable health care.

I don't call that "economically progressive" to have what you folks in Australia have.  I call that being basically humane.

Bloop Bloop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2140
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2978 on: April 19, 2020, 08:13:39 PM »
I don't have any great issue with universal healthcare.

However, other ideas such as a debt amnesty or a UBI or anything approaching large scale wealth distribution I certainly don't support.

I believe the function of government ought to be to provide free healthcare, secondary education and income support to anyone who has no assets and lacks shelter, childcare, food or other necessities. I don't otherwise believe in redistribution.

DarkandStormy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Midwest, USA
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2979 on: April 20, 2020, 06:47:13 AM »
I like Biden's policies.

Sanders was way too economically progressive for my liking.

I don't have any great issue with universal healthcare.

I believe the function of government ought to be to provide free healthcare, secondary education and income support to anyone who has no assets and lacks shelter, childcare, food or other necessities. I don't otherwise believe in redistribution.

The cognitive dissonance is striking.

DarkandStormy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Midwest, USA
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2980 on: April 20, 2020, 06:48:09 AM »
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5668
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2981 on: April 20, 2020, 07:05:24 AM »
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Nope, I donít remember that. Could you cite a source?

Davnasty

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2582
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2982 on: April 20, 2020, 07:22:57 AM »
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Nope, I donít remember that. Could you cite a source?

1. Stormy (2020). "Assuming I know how other people think" DarkandStormy's Thoughts and Feelings. 10 (2): 58Ė59.

DarkandStormy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Midwest, USA
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2983 on: April 20, 2020, 07:30:31 AM »
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Nope, I donít remember that. Could you cite a source?
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Nope, I don’t remember that. Could you cite a source?

1. Stormy (2020). "Assuming I know how other people think" DarkandStormy's Thoughts and Feelings. 10 (2): 58–59.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

Quote
Former Vice President Joe Bidenís top advisers and prominent Democrats outside the Biden campaign have recently revived a long-running debate whether Biden should publicly pledge to serve only one term, with Biden himself signaling to aides that he would serve only a single term.

While the option of making a public pledge remains available, Biden has for now settled on an alternative strategy: quietly indicating that he will almost certainly not run for a second term while declining to make a promise that he and his advisers fear could turn him into a lame duck and sap him of his political capital.

Davnasty

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2582
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2984 on: April 20, 2020, 07:33:18 AM »
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

Quote
Former Vice President Joe Bidenís top advisers and prominent Democrats outside the Biden campaign have recently revived a long-running debate whether Biden should publicly pledge to serve only one term, with Biden himself signaling to aides that he would serve only a single term.

While the option of making a public pledge remains available, Biden has for now settled on an alternative strategy: quietly indicating that he will almost certainly not run for a second term while declining to make a promise that he and his advisers fear could turn him into a lame duck and sap him of his political capital.

I'm aware. I was referring to your opinion that everyone has ignored it or is cool with it.

DarkandStormy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Midwest, USA
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2985 on: April 20, 2020, 07:57:57 AM »
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

Quote
Former Vice President Joe Bidenís top advisers and prominent Democrats outside the Biden campaign have recently revived a long-running debate whether Biden should publicly pledge to serve only one term, with Biden himself signaling to aides that he would serve only a single term.

While the option of making a public pledge remains available, Biden has for now settled on an alternative strategy: quietly indicating that he will almost certainly not run for a second term while declining to make a promise that he and his advisers fear could turn him into a lame duck and sap him of his political capital.

I'm aware. I was referring to your opinion that everyone has ignored it or is cool with it.

Primary voters who were polled routinely cited "electability" as their foremost concern.  Ceding your hypothetical incumbency advantage and rendering your one term to a lame duck session is not electable.  It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Maybe I should have said voters are dumb instead of being cool with it.

DarkandStormy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Midwest, USA
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2986 on: April 20, 2020, 08:21:51 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/19/837966525/on-the-record-a-former-biden-staffers-sexual-assault-allegation

Quote
NPR obtained confirmation of the police report from a law enforcement source. A record of the report names Biden. NPR has filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the full report.

Tara Reade named Joe Biden in the police report she filed in 1993.

I wonder if a lot of the "I believe women, just not that woman" takes are going to need to be revised?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 10:54:22 AM by DarkandStormy »

OzzieandHarriet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 442
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2987 on: April 20, 2020, 08:24:53 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/19/837966525/on-the-record-a-former-biden-staffers-sexual-assault-allegation

Quote
NPR obtained confirmation of the police report from a law enforcement source. A record of the report names Biden. NPR has filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the full report.

Tara Reade named Joe Biden in the police report she filed in 1993.

I wonder if a lot of the "I believe women, just not that woman" takes are going to need to be revised?

She filed the police report not in 1993 but last week.

turketron

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 587
  • Age: 34
  • Location: WI
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2988 on: April 20, 2020, 08:26:22 AM »
Tara Reade named Joe Biden in the police report she filed in 1993.

I wonder if a lot of the "I believe women, just not that woman" takes are going to need to be revised?

In reading that article, it only mentions that "Reade says she filed a police report just over a week ago with the Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police Department because she was worried about her safety after receiving "online harassment." I don't see any mention of a report filed in 1993, in fact it specifically says "No contemporaneous notes or documentation of the alleged incident have been found"

I believe she should be given the benefit of the doubt and the allegation should be fully investigated.


Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5668
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2989 on: April 20, 2020, 08:59:18 AM »
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Nope, I donít remember that. Could you cite a source?
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Nope, I donít remember that. Could you cite a source?

1. Stormy (2020). "Assuming I know how other people think" DarkandStormy's Thoughts and Feelings. 10 (2): 58Ė59.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

Quote
Former Vice President Joe Bidenís top advisers and prominent Democrats outside the Biden campaign have recently revived a long-running debate whether Biden should publicly pledge to serve only one term, with Biden himself signaling to aides that he would serve only a single term.

While the option of making a public pledge remains available, Biden has for now settled on an alternative strategy: quietly indicating that he will almost certainly not run for a second term while declining to make a promise that he and his advisers fear could turn him into a lame duck and sap him of his political capital.

So... Joe Biden hasn't actually "admitted he'd probably only run for one term"?


former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5815
  • Location: Avalon
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2990 on: April 20, 2020, 09:02:36 AM »
Tara Reade named Joe Biden in the police report she filed in 1993.

I wonder if a lot of the "I believe women, just not that woman" takes are going to need to be revised?

In reading that article, it only mentions that "Reade says she filed a police report just over a week ago with the Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police Department because she was worried about her safety after receiving "online harassment." I don't see any mention of a report filed in 1993, in fact it specifically says "No contemporaneous notes or documentation of the alleged incident have been found"

I believe she should be given the benefit of the doubt and the allegation should be fully investigated.
Other than interviewing the complainant, who has made an allegation of unwitnessed behaviour 27 years ago, and then interviewing the subject of the allegation, who has denied it, what else can be done?  Does "fully investigated" have any other meaning in this context?  Supposing then you have "he said she said" from 27 years ago, no other evidence, what do you do?  What further police or court action is possible?   How could it go further than "we have no reason to believe the complainant is lying, we have no reason to believe the subject of the allegation is lying, the matter rests"?

wenchsenior

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2657
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2991 on: April 20, 2020, 09:45:13 AM »
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Nope, I donít remember that. Could you cite a source?

1. Stormy (2020). "Assuming I know how other people think" DarkandStormy's Thoughts and Feelings. 10 (2): 58Ė59.

1. Stormy (2020). "Assuming I know how other people think" DarkandStormy's Thoughts and Feelings Monograph 10: 1-1000.

This definitely seems like more of a regular monograph sort of publication.  Except with zero peer-review.

FIPurpose

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1400
  • Location: WA
    • FI With Purpose
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2992 on: April 20, 2020, 10:38:47 AM »
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Nope, I donít remember that. Could you cite a source?
Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?

Nope, I donít remember that. Could you cite a source?

1. Stormy (2020). "Assuming I know how other people think" DarkandStormy's Thoughts and Feelings. 10 (2): 58Ė59.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

Quote
Former Vice President Joe Bidenís top advisers and prominent Democrats outside the Biden campaign have recently revived a long-running debate whether Biden should publicly pledge to serve only one term, with Biden himself signaling to aides that he would serve only a single term.

While the option of making a public pledge remains available, Biden has for now settled on an alternative strategy: quietly indicating that he will almost certainly not run for a second term while declining to make a promise that he and his advisers fear could turn him into a lame duck and sap him of his political capital.

So... Joe Biden hasn't actually "admitted he'd probably only run for one term"?

I kind of expect him to resign in year 3 so as to leave an incumbent acting-president to run 2 more terms.

DarkandStormy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Midwest, USA
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2993 on: April 20, 2020, 10:52:47 AM »
So... Joe Biden hasn't actually "admitted he'd probably only run for one term"?

Four sources from his campaign said that he won't but sure...the exact words did not come out of his mouth.  This is, however, how things typically work.  Candidate says/admits/plans something bad...his staff goes to journalists who write the story.  Happens all the time.  Politics journalism 101.

DarkandStormy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Midwest, USA
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2994 on: April 20, 2020, 10:55:20 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/19/837966525/on-the-record-a-former-biden-staffers-sexual-assault-allegation

Quote
NPR obtained confirmation of the police report from a law enforcement source. A record of the report names Biden. NPR has filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the full report.

Tara Reade named Joe Biden in the police report she filed in 1993.

I wonder if a lot of the "I believe women, just not that woman" takes are going to need to be revised?

She filed the police report not in 1993 but last week.

Looks like whatever I was reading did not make a distinction between 1993 and 2020 reporting.  Statute of limitations has also passed so it's not like anything, legally-speaking, will come of it.

Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5668
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2995 on: April 20, 2020, 11:04:26 AM »
So... Joe Biden hasn't actually "admitted he'd probably only run for one term"?

Four sources from his campaign said that he won't but sure...the exact words did not come out of his mouth.  This is, however, how things typically work.  Candidate says/admits/plans something bad...his staff goes to journalists who write the story.  Happens all the time.  Politics journalism 101.

Uh, yeah. Because words matter. He did not "admit he'd probably only run for one term".

Which is what you said he did.

And now you're saying "four sources from his campaign said he won't."

But that's not really true, either, is it?

According to this article, it's "four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters." That's not necessarily four sources from his campaign, is it?

The closest this article gets to that is, "a prominent adviser to the campaign," and later "another top Biden adviser."

Look, it's very possible that he won't be running for a second term, after reading this article. Good to know. But let me point out again what you said.

"Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?"

I was surprised by this information, which is why I asked you for a source.

And the source you have given me tells me what you said wasn't true.

pecunia

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2996 on: April 20, 2020, 04:30:46 PM »
Good chance that he (Biden) will run for only one term.  Trump has a lot of money behind him.  Trump has some extremely loyal supporters.  Some have called them cultists.  He will probably only run for one term because he will lose in November.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13562
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2997 on: April 21, 2020, 05:28:02 AM »
Good chance that he (Biden) will run for only one term.  Trump has a lot of money behind him.  Trump has some extremely loyal supporters.  Some have called them cultists.  He will probably only run for one term because he will lose in November.

As we've seen and discussed, this "extremely loyal/cultist" support Trump enjoys is insufficient to win re-election. He squeaked by in 2016 on a razor thin electoral college win, but since that point his support has never matched what it was on election day. At the same time the number of people disapprove has risen, and the number of 'Strongly Disapprove" outnumbers those that are "extremely loyal".

Trump either needs to build his support to be much broader than what he's had over the previous 3 years, or he needs to discourage turnout for his opponent even moreso than he was able to do with HRC.  Given how hardened so many people with either supporting or opposing him, it seems like the latter is the most likely play. 

Which is why I expect this summer to get very, very ugly between those two men.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3914
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2998 on: April 21, 2020, 07:35:00 AM »
Alrighty my butt-hurt for Bernie is subsiding.  I can now vote for Biden.  I won't be excited about it but, damnit we have to remove that incompetent POS in our Whitehouse.

If there is a Democratic president and Congress, it will force the Republicans to ask WTF and then clean up their act.  I think they need it.

Why will it not cause them to become even more extreme and embrace a "win at all costs" style of politics that involves abandoning any pretense of the rule of law taking priority over maintaining their own power? Because that's what happened after they lost 2012.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3914
Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2999 on: April 21, 2020, 07:39:18 AM »
So... Joe Biden hasn't actually "admitted he'd probably only run for one term"?

Four sources from his campaign said that he won't but sure...the exact words did not come out of his mouth.  This is, however, how things typically work.  Candidate says/admits/plans something bad...his staff goes to journalists who write the story.  Happens all the time.  Politics journalism 101.

Uh, yeah. Because words matter. He did not "admit he'd probably only run for one term".

Which is what you said he did.

And now you're saying "four sources from his campaign said he won't."

But that's not really true, either, is it?

According to this article, it's "four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters." That's not necessarily four sources from his campaign, is it?

The closest this article gets to that is, "a prominent adviser to the campaign," and later "another top Biden adviser."

Look, it's very possible that he won't be running for a second term, after reading this article. Good to know. But let me point out again what you said.

"Remember when Biden admitted he'd probably only run for one term, ceding the incumbency advantage in a hypothetical re-election in 2024?  And everyone either ignored it or was cool it?"

I was surprised by this information, which is why I asked you for a source.

And the source you have given me tells me what you said wasn't true.

I can only think of two examples from the twentieth Century when a former VP won the White House; One was Richard Nixon in 1968, who was able to win again in 1972. The other was George H.W. Bush, who won one term, but not two. Not sure why it should change anyone's vote for Biden to promise only one term, although it might be a way of branding the roll-out of the VP pick.