Author Topic: 2020 POTUS Candidates  (Read 292290 times)

partgypsy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2450 on: March 04, 2020, 09:32:32 AM »
I have a Bernie bro (actually female) friend who tried to passionately argue me out of voting for Warren (my pick) this primary. because it would undercut Bernie. She didn't seem to understand I didn't care if I undercut him as I wanted my candidate, not hers. All the same I will still go out to vote this fall. 

I think this particular person will still vote Democratic, though this person was so vehemently against Bloomberg not sure if they would vote, if Bloomberg if got the nod. I think Bernie supporters are a bit of a disparate group so any one's reasonings is not going to be anothers for voting, or not voting.

My analogy is, if you are stuck in a trap and starving to death, you might need to gnaw your foot off to get out of that situation. No one WANTS to gnaw off their foot (vote for their nonpreferred choice). But it's better than the alternative. 

megaschnauzer

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2451 on: March 04, 2020, 09:36:20 AM »
My analogy is, if you are stuck in a trap and starving to death, you might need to gnaw your foot off to get out of that situation. No one WANTS to gnaw off their foot (vote for their nonpreferred choice). But it's better than the alternative.

that would be a great campaign slogan.

Samuel

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2452 on: March 04, 2020, 09:42:25 AM »
Independents and Republicans will not vote for Sanders.
Bernie bros will not vote for Biden.

Which probably means we get Trump again either way.

A lot of this depends on how ugly the Bernie v. Biden phase gets. It's entirely possible we'll have 4 months of them trashing each other on the way to the convention (with Trump constantly tweeting about how the party is trying to steal the nomination from Bernie).

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2453 on: March 04, 2020, 09:49:31 AM »
It definitely looks like the winds are blowing toward Biden right now. Though I guess that could change between now and the convention. Delegate wise, it looks like Bernie and Biden will be neck and neck. I assume once we get a better idea of California's delegates, they'll basically be tied. So then what do we have going forward? Biden can claim winning a state like Texas, but if it only nets him +5 delegates over Bernie... so what?

Bernie/Biden both around 600 delegates each
Everyone else - 150 delegates
Delegates left - 2650

To clench the nom. Bernie/Biden will need to claim 52% of the remaining delegates. Next week we have MO, MI, and WA on the docket that total about 300 delegates. But also what will MI's vote tell us about how OH, PA, and WI might swing as well? Even if Bernie takes those states, there's enough southern states to keep Joe right next to him. The race continues...

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2454 on: March 04, 2020, 10:17:22 AM »
It definitely looks like the winds are blowing toward Biden right now. Though I guess that could change between now and the convention. Delegate wise, it looks like Bernie and Biden will be neck and neck. I assume once we get a better idea of California's delegates, they'll basically be tied. So then what do we have going forward? Biden can claim winning a state like Texas, but if it only nets him +5 delegates over Bernie... so what?

Bernie/Biden both around 600 delegates each
Everyone else - 150 delegates
Delegates left - 2650

To clench the nom. Bernie/Biden will need to claim 52% of the remaining delegates. Next week we have MO, MI, and WA on the docket that total about 300 delegates. But also what will MI's vote tell us about how OH, PA, and WI might swing as well? Even if Bernie takes those states, there's enough southern states to keep Joe right next to him. The race continues...

How Bernie ends up in the next few states with this change of momentum will be telling. However, as you mention, it seems like the recent events are continuing to lead towards it taking a very long time to sort out who the nominee will be.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2455 on: March 04, 2020, 10:39:59 AM »
It's looking unlikely for Bernie. I'd guess that Warren-leaning voters would split 50/50 for Biden and Bernie, so I'm not seeing Bernie's path to victory.

I'm very curious to see who Biden taps as his Veep, I'm hoping it will be one of the candidates that can infuse some youthful enthusiasm into his campaign, I think he'll need it, and I think our best possible future requires bold innovative thinking. I'm going to selfishly suggest Beto, as putting him on the ticket would provide a boost here in TX for progressive candidates and hopefully break the R stranglehold on this state; Biden and Beto visited my local Whataburger after this week's rally! but I seriously doubt it would be him, and I'm not sure Beto would be the best choice for Biden's national prospects.

maizefolk

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2456 on: March 04, 2020, 11:27:05 AM »
How do you, if you believe in Bernie's policies not vote for Biden over Trump...?
Your forgetting their other option: spending their Tuesday doing anything other than voting.
Sorry. I find that attitude of indifference reprehensible, to be quite frank. Feel free to disagree.

I think it is possible to both find an attitude reprehensible at the same time that we acknowledge that it (spending the first Tuesday in November doing anything but voting) is an attitude shared by almost half of registered voters in the USA.

If "I don't care enough to vote" had been on the ballot it would have defeated both Clinton and Trump in a landslide in 2016.

I'm not arguing Sanders is the solution to that, because I don't think he is.

But I don't think it makes sense to disregard the fact that tens of millions of americans clearly cannot be motivated to vote for candidate A simply by reiterating how terrible candidate B is. Regardless of how personally incomprehensible (or offensive) you or I may find that worldview.

J Boogie

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2457 on: March 04, 2020, 11:41:25 AM »
Independents and Republicans will not vote for Sanders.
Bernie bros will not vote for Biden.

Which probably means we get Trump again either way.

I've heard this and half believe it, but I dunno. How do you, if you believe in Bernie's policies not vote for Biden over Trump...?

Your forgetting their other option: spending their Tuesday doing anything other than voting.

Right, I mean, I obviously get that that's an option, but as I asked how do you not vote for Biden over Trump. There's no hot button issue, I'm aware of that Bernie supporters could not ethically or whatever vote for Biden. Ages are similar. In terms of Biden's cognitive decline (one of my biggest worries), it can't be much worse than Trump. So I'm left with if they do it, it's totally a sore loser mentality on the biggest stage.

ETA: or as Kris pointed out, poor critical thinking

Not a Bernie Bro, but here's a possible perspective:

They might view a Biden presidency as a halfhearted and uninspired return to the status quo from an aging insider and perennial POTUS wannabe on his last leg. Does anyone really think once this old dog finally catches the car that he's going to do anything radical to change the system? Trump is at least breaking and dismantling, even if many of the changes he's making are the wrong ones. Trump gives them more of an opportunity to do a full gut renovation in 4 years rather than continue patching a broken system after 8 Biden years, after which point in time things could likely swing Republican and Bernie will be 4 valuable years older.

They also might identify more with the populist than the progressive in progressive populist.


sui generis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2458 on: March 04, 2020, 12:09:07 PM »
How do you, if you believe in Bernie's policies not vote for Biden over Trump...?
Your forgetting their other option: spending their Tuesday doing anything other than voting.
Sorry. I find that attitude of indifference reprehensible, to be quite frank. Feel free to disagree.

I think it is possible to both find an attitude reprehensible at the same time that we acknowledge that it (spending the first Tuesday in November doing anything but voting) is an attitude shared by almost half of registered voters in the USA.

If "I don't care enough to vote" had been on the ballot it would have defeated both Clinton and Trump in a landslide in 2016.

I'm not arguing Sanders is the solution to that, because I don't think he is.

But I don't think it makes sense to disregard the fact that tens of millions of americans clearly cannot be motivated to vote for candidate A simply by reiterating how terrible candidate B is. Regardless of how personally incomprehensible (or offensive) you or I may find that worldview.

Actually, reiterating how terrible candidate B is works really well for the Republicans.  That's basically how Trump got elected.  Everything Dems/Hillary do is either outright bad or a hoax/plot/conspiracy even if it doesn't sound like it on the surface.  And their whole goal is to fleece you/replace you/actually outright kill you via hordes of raping Mexicans.

But I think (at least part of) why this works for Republicans and not Dems is that the Republican party is so predominantly white Christians and older and more male.  It's easy to hit on the thing(s) that scare/anger white Christians in simple, easy messaging.  Dems are liberal white Christians, conservative Black Christians, every other faith and none, all the other races and education levels and every other "identity" you can think of, including a handful of old white Christian males.  It's hard to get such a broad coalition to all be scared/angered by the same simple messaging.  The interests are too diverse. 

There's a lot of research going on now that negative partisanship is one of the most effective tactics, and that turnout in 2018 was high significantly due to negative partisanship.  The fact that it is always higher in the mid-terms by the opposition party is a testament to negative partisanship and 2018 was a banner year for Dems for that.  But turnout was also unusually high for Republicans in 2018, perhaps bolstering the argument that they are easier to stoke with negative partisanship than Dems are.  Rachel Bitecofer has a lot of fascinating research about this, and Ezra Klein's new book is really informative.

It may not be very flattering to the human species that negative partisanship can be so effective, and it goes against my own ethics to think about using it (instead of winning on the merits) but I'm also tired of Dems bringing knives to a gun fight.  If they could leverage it as effectively as Republicans, far be it from me to insist Dems snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

maizefolk

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2459 on: March 04, 2020, 12:26:21 PM »
Actually, reiterating how terrible candidate B is works really well for the Republicans.  That's basically how Trump got elected.  Everything Dems/Hillary do is either outright bad or a hoax/plot/conspiracy even if it doesn't sound like it on the surface.  And their whole goal is to fleece you/replace you/actually outright kill you via hordes of raping Mexicans.

Do you think that actually helped motivate people to vote for Trump who otherwise would have stayed home?

Or a combination of convincing independents to vote for Trump over Clinton and convincing marginal voters than both candidates were a terrible mess so let's just stay home and watch netflix on Tuesday night instead of voting?

The second has been my interpretation of how negative messaging usually works, but I could well be wrong.

Quote
It may not be very flattering to the human species that negative partisanship can be so effective, and it goes against my own ethics to think about using it (instead of winning on the merits) but I'm also tired of Dems bringing knives to a gun fight.  If they could leverage it as effectively as Republicans, far be it from me to insist Dems snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I agree negative campaigning can definitely be effective.

For congress, I think it is somewhat different than a presidential election between two non-incumbents. It's a lot easier to get people to agree that the people currently in charge are making the wrong decisions than to get the same number of people to agree on what the right decisions are.

Psychstache

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2460 on: March 04, 2020, 02:44:26 PM »
Independents and Republicans will not vote for Sanders.
Bernie bros will not vote for Biden.

Which probably means we get Trump again either way.

I've heard this and half believe it, but I dunno. How do you, if you believe in Bernie's policies not vote for Biden over Trump...?

Your forgetting their other option: spending their Tuesday doing anything other than voting.

Right, I mean, I obviously get that that's an option, but as I asked how do you not vote for Biden over Trump. There's no hot button issue, I'm aware of that Bernie supporters could not ethically or whatever vote for Biden. Ages are similar. In terms of Biden's cognitive decline (one of my biggest worries), it can't be much worse than Trump. So I'm left with if they do it, it's totally a sore loser mentality on the biggest stage.

ETA: or as Kris pointed out, poor critical thinking

I agree with both of you, but my conversations with the Bernie supporters I know are Bernie or bust and stay home with no qualms about how that will help elect Trump.

Poundwise

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2461 on: March 04, 2020, 02:58:57 PM »
Sigh. I still think that Warren would make an exceptionally good President.  I hope she stays in long enough to make the last debate: can't stand the thought of those two old men shouting platitudes at each other.

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2462 on: March 04, 2020, 04:32:16 PM »
Sigh. I still think that Warren would make an exceptionally good President.  I hope she stays in long enough to make the last debate: can't stand the thought of those two old men shouting platitudes at each other.

Both of those two old men seem quite gracious.  It may actually turn out to be a thoughtful debate.  The last few Democratic debates have been sparring matches where the issues often got short shrift.  The priority should be what is best for the American people.  I think that both of the two winning candidates have genuine beliefs as to what is best for the American people and they are acting on those beliefs.

aetheldrea

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2463 on: March 04, 2020, 06:45:36 PM »
Looking at the polling estimates for Super Tuesday it's certainly starting to look like no one will be able to catch Sanders. Assuming that predictions are reasonably accurate, the interesting question now becomes which of the other candidates stay in the race to block Sanders from getting 1,991 delegates. The third tier candidates Steyer and Gabbard seem to have good possibility of dropping out next week, but I just don't see Warren, Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, or Klobuchar since they all believe they'll be a big beneficiary when someone else in their group drops.
It’s hard to predict, especially about the future, but a lot can happen in just one week

Chris22

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2464 on: March 04, 2020, 07:01:34 PM »
Independents and Republicans will not vote for Sanders.
Bernie bros will not vote for Biden.

Which probably means we get Trump again either way.

I've heard this and half believe it, but I dunno. How do you, if you believe in Bernie's policies not vote for Biden over Trump...?

Your forgetting their other option: spending their Tuesday doing anything other than voting.

Right, I mean, I obviously get that that's an option, but as I asked how do you not vote for Biden over Trump. There's no hot button issue, I'm aware of that Bernie supporters could not ethically or whatever vote for Biden. Ages are similar. In terms of Biden's cognitive decline (one of my biggest worries), it can't be much worse than Trump. So I'm left with if they do it, it's totally a sore loser mentality on the biggest stage.

ETA: or as Kris pointed out, poor critical thinking

Not a Bernie Bro, but here's a possible perspective:

They might view a Biden presidency as a halfhearted and uninspired return to the status quo from an aging insider and perennial POTUS wannabe on his last leg. Does anyone really think once this old dog finally catches the car that he's going to do anything radical to change the system? Trump is at least breaking and dismantling, even if many of the changes he's making are the wrong ones. Trump gives them more of an opportunity to do a full gut renovation in 4 years rather than continue patching a broken system after 8 Biden years, after which point in time things could likely swing Republican and Bernie will be 4 valuable years older.

They also might identify more with the populist than the progressive in progressive populist.

Or they might view that the DNC/Democratic Party is again screwing Bernie, and they are staying home to spite them.

American GenX

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2465 on: March 04, 2020, 07:06:55 PM »
Looking at the polling estimates for Super Tuesday it's certainly starting to look like no one will be able to catch Sanders. Assuming that predictions are reasonably accurate, the interesting question now becomes which of the other candidates stay in the race to block Sanders from getting 1,991 delegates. The third tier candidates Steyer and Gabbard seem to have good possibility of dropping out next week, but I just don't see Warren, Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, or Klobuchar since they all believe they'll be a big beneficiary when someone else in their group drops.
It’s hard to predict, especially about the future, but a lot can happen in just one week
Or a few days, or a day.  I have to admit, I was getting concerned that we may suffer with a Bernie nomination, but I felt a lot of relief yesterday and am much more confident now that things are going to turn out for the best, not just for the democratic nomination, but also in the general election.  Biden would have done even better if not for the early vote, and now Bloomberg is off the table and has endorsed Biden.  So, I'm liking his chances going forward.  I've been a Biden backer all along, so I'm really enjoying this.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2466 on: March 04, 2020, 07:19:15 PM »
Independents and Republicans will not vote for Sanders.
Bernie bros will not vote for Biden.

Which probably means we get Trump again either way.

I've heard this and half believe it, but I dunno. How do you, if you believe in Bernie's policies not vote for Biden over Trump...?

Your forgetting their other option: spending their Tuesday doing anything other than voting.

Right.

Which again, gets us Trump.

Sorry. I find that attitude of indifference reprehensible, to be quite frank. Feel free to disagree.

Sure thing. I’ll start by pointing out that what you or I think about other people’s behavior doesn’t much matter: people will do what they’re going to do. We don’t have mandatory voting, at least not yet, so people aren’t going to participate if they don’t believe it will change their lives or matter. And  those who aren’t voting are probably right. What do they get out of this? Will their lives change in a material way if they show up? Probably not. At some point lofty ideas and platitudes have to deliver. Appeals to civic duty only go so far.

The way the current race is shaping up is making it look like it’ll boil down to a choice between President Trump and Vice President Biden. Or said another way, the election will boil down to two old white guys fighting it out over who is less repulsive. You might not like that characterization or agree with it, but that’s what a large portion of the population is going to think by the time November rolls around. And I’ll make my very safe prediction about the outcome of the election: whichever candidate is selected will get far fewer votes than the number of people who will choose not to participate.



lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2467 on: March 04, 2020, 08:52:03 PM »
What has happened in the Democratic party over the last few weeks is remarkable. The party's immune system kicked in and it now looks set to thwart Bernie once again (barring any new surprises). This is something the Republicans could not manage in trying to block Trump 4 years ago. The Republicans probably failed because Trump has more raw demagogic talent and better strategy than Bernie, though it also appears the Democrats have a stronger institutional immune system. This immunity promotes candidates that are the most inevitable and least compelling at those times when the party is short of generational talents like Obama. Dozens of candidates and a year of campaigning seems to have been a waste: the outcome of the process is someone in the depths of mental decline who is being propped up by the load-bearing edifice of the DNC.

Biden is hardly campaigning and that appears to be part of the plan: “The more people see him live in 2019, the more they realize he might not be the guy they remember from 2008”. It's easy to imaging some pretty ugly debate performances from Biden (especially given the relative ease and naturalness of the competition). Of all the centrists, Biden might be the very worst. I guess we might find out how much name recognition and Obama-nostalgia really count for.

American GenX

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2468 on: March 04, 2020, 09:33:28 PM »

Here's Biden's Super Tuesday Celebration speech.  He was showing a lot of energy and enthusiasm.  It was fun to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnE9kKeOyTg

sixwings

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2469 on: March 04, 2020, 09:50:18 PM »
Independents and Republicans will not vote for Sanders.
Bernie bros will not vote for Biden.

Which probably means we get Trump again either way.

I've heard this and half believe it, but I dunno. How do you, if you believe in Bernie's policies not vote for Biden over Trump...?

Your forgetting their other option: spending their Tuesday doing anything other than voting.

Right, I mean, I obviously get that that's an option, but as I asked how do you not vote for Biden over Trump. There's no hot button issue, I'm aware of that Bernie supporters could not ethically or whatever vote for Biden. Ages are similar. In terms of Biden's cognitive decline (one of my biggest worries), it can't be much worse than Trump. So I'm left with if they do it, it's totally a sore loser mentality on the biggest stage.

ETA: or as Kris pointed out, poor critical thinking

Not a Bernie Bro, but here's a possible perspective:

They might view a Biden presidency as a halfhearted and uninspired return to the status quo from an aging insider and perennial POTUS wannabe on his last leg. Does anyone really think once this old dog finally catches the car that he's going to do anything radical to change the system? Trump is at least breaking and dismantling, even if many of the changes he's making are the wrong ones. Trump gives them more of an opportunity to do a full gut renovation in 4 years rather than continue patching a broken system after 8 Biden years, after which point in time things could likely swing Republican and Bernie will be 4 valuable years older.

They also might identify more with the populist than the progressive in progressive populist.

And at that point both breyer and RBG will be off the SC with a massive 7-2 conservative majority they won't be able to get anything done for several decades. It's not just the presidency, it's the courts on the line more than ever.

kenmoremmm

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2470 on: March 04, 2020, 11:08:30 PM »
if only there were some way to handle a situation like this:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/questions-about-patient-costs-stir-concern-amid-seattle-areas-coronavirus-outbreak/
Quote
Irene Wong isn’t sick. But the 45-year-old Seattle resident, who runs a small travel tour company, has been monitoring the area’s novel coronavirus outbreak anxiously because she doesn’t have health insurance. She’s been wondering about testing and treatment costs that could dissuade uninsured people from obtaining care and thereby help the virus spread.

Local authorities have been talking about that concern. The Washington State Department of Health (DOH) laboratory in Shoreline isn’t billing for COVID-19 tests at this time. Swabs are taken at doctor’s offices or hospitals and then taken to the lab.

“Right now we don’t know how much each test costs, but the public health lab is not charging patients for these tests,” DOH’s website said Wednesday.

Seattle City Councilmember Kshama Sawant on Monday urged Mayor Jenny Durkan and King County Executive Dow Constantine to use emergency funds “to guarantee that anyone in our region with a respiratory illness has access to a doctor’s visit without fear of medical bills.”

The Washington State Office of the Insurance Commissioner (OIC) is reviewing its emergency powers, and Gov. Jay Inslee is looking into the issue, his office said Wednesday. The state House has approved $100 million in funding to respond to the outbreak.

The Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday that the Trump administration was considering using a national disaster program to pay hospitals and doctors for their care of uninsured people who are infected.

People without insurance should consider seeking care at public-health centers and neighborhood clinics, said Katie Ross, a spokeswoman for Public Health — Seattle & King County.

No steps have been taken to date that would help Seattle-area residents pay for care related to COVID-19, other than testing, said OIC spokeswoman Stephanie Marquis.

“It’s not just me. I’ve been thinking about all the other people with no insurance, including homeless people,” Wong said. “The costs could discourage so many people from seeking the appropriate medical attention.”

UW Medicine has received approval to test specimens, and each test will cost about $200, officials said Wednesday. A spokeswoman didn’t immediately say how billing would be handled.

Washington residents may incur additional medical expenses by visiting a doctor’s office, clinic or hospital, such as for tests to rule out COVID-19.

That worries Wong. She dropped her insurance a couple years ago after determining that traveling to Thailand to visit the doctor and dentist would be cheaper, she said.

“Health care is relatively affordable in Asia, but what about here in America? Are people going to stay home and not report their symptoms?” she asked.

People who lack health insurance include some undocumented immigrants, said Aaron Katz, principal lecturer at the University of Washington’s School of Public Health.

“We have people in our community without insurance for a variety of reasons, and it’s well known that a person may avoid care that they would have to pay for,” Katz said.

More than 94% of Washington residents have health insurance, and most plans should cover COVID-19 like any other illness, because insurers must cover treatment considered medically necessary, according to the OIC.

Even people with coverage, however, may think twice about seeking care that could result in co-payments and deductible payments, Katz noted.

“You’re going to have to pay something,” he said. “There are all these impediments in our system that cause people to think, ‘Eh, I’ll hope my illness goes away.'”

Public-health officials have advised people with symptoms like a cough, fever or respiratory problems to call a doctor or clinic first and to visit an emergency room only in critical cases.

People without insurance can check with the Washington Health Benefit Exchange to determine whether they may qualify for Medicaid or Medicare. “Enrollment happens all year long,” said Marquis, the OIC spokeswoman.

“Generally speaking, Medicaid is free insurance,” said Amy Blondin, spokeswoman at the Washington State Health Care Authority. “People on Medicaid should be covered at no cost.”

There are financial counselors on site at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle who can help patients with that, said Susan Gregg, spokeswoman for the hospital.

“When people come in, we don’t ask what insurance they have. We give them the care they need,” Gregg said. “We have a robust program to see whether they qualify for various programs.”

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced a directive Tuesday requiring insurers to waive cost-sharing associated with doctor, urgent care and emergency room visits related to coronavirus testing.

In the Seattle area, the average cost for a 40-minute outpatient visit is $312 without insurance and $162 with insurance, according to FAIR Health, an national nonprofit. For a moderate-severity emergency room visit, the average costs are $227 or $109.

But almost 40% of American adults don’t have enough money saved to cover a $400 emergency, noted Kelly Powers, a board member at the advocacy organization Health Care for All WA.

“The typical out-of-pocket expense for an unexpected major medical event is $1,000,” Powers said.

Some people have been placed under quarantine, but only those who require hospital care are now being quarantined at hospitals, said Chelene Whiteaker, senior vice president at the Washington State Hospital Association.

six-car-habit

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2471 on: March 05, 2020, 01:00:07 AM »
 From the above story provided by KenmoreMMM -
** "That worries Wong. She dropped her insurance a couple years ago after determining that traveling to Thailand to visit the doctor and dentist would be cheaper, she said." **

  Sure travelling to Thailand may be cheaper if you are going there for $3000 dollars of American equivalent dental work, that you can plan out, because your tooth is Not abcessed and killing you with pain.

      I wonder if Ms Wong considered what she would do if she fell down some stairs and broke her leg, or got in a serious car accident.

 I've travveled on a plane in standard seating with the equivalent of a cast on a leg, and it sucked.  I can only imagine how it would have been flying to Asia with an untreated/unfixed broken leg...

 Should Ms Wong come down with Covid-19 , she should have to pay out of pocket for at least some of her treatment. She made the choice to forgo health insurance to save $$, and/or because she didn't desire a job that might provide subsidized insurance...

American GenX

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2472 on: March 05, 2020, 02:55:37 AM »
And at that point both breyer and RBG will be off the SC with a massive 7-2 conservative majority they won't be able to get anything done for several decades. It's not just the presidency, it's the courts on the line more than ever.

Absolutely, and it's already a concern since Trump still has until next January, and Mitch McConnell said republicans would fill a Supreme Court vacancy if one opened during this election year desplite failing to allow Obama to do so.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/us/politics/mitch-mcconnell-supreme-court.html

Now, the concern is even greater with the spread of COVID-19, which hits older people especially hard.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2473 on: March 05, 2020, 06:39:43 AM »
Looking at the polling estimates for Super Tuesday it's certainly starting to look like no one will be able to catch Sanders. Assuming that predictions are reasonably accurate, the interesting question now becomes which of the other candidates stay in the race to block Sanders from getting 1,991 delegates. The third tier candidates Steyer and Gabbard seem to have good possibility of dropping out next week, but I just don't see Warren, Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, or Klobuchar since they all believe they'll be a big beneficiary when someone else in their group drops.
It’s hard to predict, especially about the future, but a lot can happen in just one week
Or a few days, or a day.  I have to admit, I was getting concerned that we may suffer with a Bernie nomination, but I felt a lot of relief yesterday and am much more confident now that things are going to turn out for the best, not just for the democratic nomination, but also in the general election.  Biden would have done even better if not for the early vote, and now Bloomberg is off the table and has endorsed Biden.  So, I'm liking his chances going forward.  I've been a Biden backer all along, so I'm really enjoying this.

Yeah, boy was I ever wrong about that one. I certainly didn't expect Buttigieg and Klobuchar to drop before Super Tuesday. I've got to hand it to Biden, he pulled off some Grade A back room politicking on that maneuver.

secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2474 on: March 05, 2020, 09:00:56 AM »
Warren is dropping out.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2475 on: March 05, 2020, 09:02:33 AM »
Warren is dropping out.

I'm betting she doesn't endorse anyone, but I've got to think she's on the short list for either Biden's or Bernie's VP.

sui generis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2476 on: March 05, 2020, 09:12:41 AM »
Warren is dropping out.

I'm betting she doesn't endorse anyone, but I've got to think she's on the short list for either Biden's or Bernie's VP.

I *really* hope she doesn't endorse.  And while she was my first choice, I don't think she should be VP.  If she's not gonna be president, I don't think it's worth her leaving the Senate and losing that blue seat, making it even more impossible for us to flip the Senate.

I'd love to see Stacey Abrams as VP.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2477 on: March 05, 2020, 09:16:32 AM »
Warren is dropping out.
I'm betting she doesn't endorse anyone, but I've got to think she's on the short list for either Biden's or Bernie's VP.

Those combinations would put a 77/78 year-old and a 70 year-old on the Democratic ticket. That would be an old ticket even by Republican standards.

partgypsy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2478 on: March 05, 2020, 09:43:49 AM »
Warren is dropping out.

I'm betting she doesn't endorse anyone, but I've got to think she's on the short list for either Biden's or Bernie's VP.

I *really* hope she doesn't endorse.  And while she was my first choice, I don't think she should be VP.  If she's not gonna be president, I don't think it's worth her leaving the Senate and losing that blue seat, making it even more impossible for us to flip the Senate.

I'd love to see Stacey Abrams as VP.
I voted for Warren, I'm glad she ran and got her platform out, and also gave Bloomberg some hell. At the same time I agree with this. She is doing very valuable work with her senate seat. However I would not be surprised if she was offered a cabinet position. VP for me seems less likely. Regarding VP noms, for Biden I think either Buttigeig or Klobuchar have that wrapped up. For Sanders, I'm not sure if Warren will endorse anyone and even if she does, not sure Warren would accept a VP position from Sanders! However I am not a political pundit and am horrible about predicting these kinds of things. I was surprised at the amount of support Biden ended up having.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 09:46:52 AM by partgypsy »

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2479 on: March 05, 2020, 10:11:50 AM »
Warren is dropping out.

I'm betting she doesn't endorse anyone, but I've got to think she's on the short list for either Biden's or Bernie's VP.

I *really* hope she doesn't endorse.  And while she was my first choice, I don't think she should be VP.  If she's not gonna be president, I don't think it's worth her leaving the Senate and losing that blue seat, making it even more impossible for us to flip the Senate.

I'd love to see Stacey Abrams as VP.
I voted for Warren, I'm glad she ran and got her platform out, and also gave Bloomberg some hell. At the same time I agree with this. She is doing very valuable work with her senate seat. However I would not be surprised if she was offered a cabinet position. VP for me seems less likely. Regarding VP noms, for Biden I think either Buttigeig or Klobuchar have that wrapped up. For Sanders, I'm not sure if Warren will endorse anyone and even if she does, not sure Warren would accept a VP position from Sanders! However I am not a political pundit and am horrible about predicting these kinds of things. I was surprised at the amount of support Biden ended up having.

All 3, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Warren would all be bad VP picks. Though I can imagine Joe making a bad decision like that. Tricking himself into thinking that one of them is popular.

No the VP pick will need to be someone young and likely black in order to get the votes that Hillary lost in the rust belt. Abrams meets that criteria. Ayanna Presley would also make a good choice and might also help satisfy Bernie supporters. Sen. Duckworth might not be a bad choice either. Duckworth is a good foil to GOP jingoism.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 10:16:08 AM by FIPurpose »

maizefolk

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2480 on: March 05, 2020, 10:18:19 AM »
Oh I like the idea of Duckworth! Haven't heard her name proposed before, but she'd make a lot of sense (and be good at the job).

sui generis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2481 on: March 05, 2020, 10:37:30 AM »
Yeah, why *don't* we hear more about Duckworth?  She seems great, although I have to admit I don't know a lot about her beyond the top line.  Presley also a worthwhile consideration.

Edit: I wonder if Duckworth is a "natural born citizen"?  I see her father is American and her mother Thai and I know there were some pretty racist laws for various periods of time where you were not a citizen just because your *father* was (but you always were if your mother was) because they didn't want babies fathered by men in the military while fighting abroad (in particular, in Asia in the latter 20th Century) to automatically get citizenship.  And even if Duckworth didn't fall into one of those traps, can you imagine the hullaballoo by conservatives/Republicans even so?  I mean, just the suggestion that Obama was born in Kenya was enough to drive them batty even though that never would have disqualified him since his mother was an American citizen! 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 10:43:31 AM by sui generis »

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2482 on: March 05, 2020, 11:09:40 AM »
Stacey Abrams would be a great choice for VP, IMO.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2483 on: March 05, 2020, 11:26:41 AM »
And even if Duckworth didn't fall into one of those traps, can you imagine the hullaballoo by conservatives/Republicans even so?  I mean, just the suggestion that Obama was born in Kenya was enough to drive them batty even though that never would have disqualified him since his mother was an American citizen!

Right, but those same people are also perfectly okay with Cruz running for president even though he was definitely born in Canada.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2484 on: March 05, 2020, 11:48:19 AM »
My analogy is, if you are stuck in a trap and starving to death, you might need to gnaw your foot off to get out of that situation. No one WANTS to gnaw off their foot (vote for their nonpreferred choice). But it's better than the alternative.

that would be a great campaign slogan.

Can't tread on me if you're missing a foot!

Scortius

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2485 on: March 05, 2020, 12:00:28 PM »
My guess is that Biden would pick Harris or possibly Booker.

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2486 on: March 05, 2020, 12:02:22 PM »
I hate to say it like this, but it's possible that Biden's VP would succeed him if he dies in office.  I certainly don't wish that on anyone, and I think it's better for the people to have the person they elected to President for the full four years.

But with Biden's VP choice, it has to be someone who is not just an attractive vote-getter, but someone who would be a really good president.  I don't have any specific thoughts on that but I would prefer for him to pick someone very strong for the role.

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2487 on: March 05, 2020, 12:03:57 PM »
Another choice for VP is Wisconsin's Senator Tammy Baldwin. I think she would be a good choice for both Bernie and Biden.

partgypsy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2488 on: March 05, 2020, 01:00:37 PM »
I hate to say it like this, but it's possible that Biden's VP would succeed him if he dies in office.  I certainly don't wish that on anyone, and I think it's better for the people to have the person they elected to President for the full four years.

But with Biden's VP choice, it has to be someone who is not just an attractive vote-getter, but someone who would be a really good president.  I don't have any specific thoughts on that but I would prefer for him to pick someone very strong for the role.

yes, but VPs have never been picked for that reason. They are used to wrap up electoral votes. (See Dan Quayle. https://www.azquotes.com/author/11968-Dan_Quayle)
Plus a strong argument based on what we know now, a random person off the street is more qualified to do the duties of President than the current holder. So, no downside.

"What a terrible thing to have lost one's mind. Or not to have a mind at all. How true that is.." Dan Quayle
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 01:05:51 PM by partgypsy »

YttriumNitrate

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2489 on: March 05, 2020, 01:48:18 PM »
My guess is that Biden would pick Harris or possibly Booker.

The problem with those picks is that they are from states that will be called for the Democratic candidate 5 minutes after the polls close.

mm1970

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2490 on: March 05, 2020, 02:09:24 PM »
 A lot of the VP options are great, but not great.  As my husband put it, we sort of want to keep our great Senators right where they are!

Although Harris would most certainly be replaced by another democrat.

maizefolk

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2491 on: March 05, 2020, 02:39:08 PM »
Another choice for VP is Wisconsin's Senator Tammy Baldwin. I think she would be a good choice for both Bernie and Biden.

Baldwin would be a good VP, but Wisconsin is a hard enough state for a democratic senator to win in these days that I'd hate to see her elected and trigger a special election there.

sui generis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2492 on: March 05, 2020, 04:14:29 PM »
Vogue agrees with some suggestions here and adds two more interesting ones (see end) https://www.vogue.com/article/six-women-biden-should-pick-as-running-mate?

American GenX

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2493 on: March 05, 2020, 04:18:45 PM »
Although Harris would most certainly be replaced by another democrat.

Harris or Klobuchar, either one, would be good VP picks, in my book.  But none of us gets a vote on that.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2494 on: March 05, 2020, 04:20:42 PM »
Why not Tulsi Gabbard? 

sui generis

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2495 on: March 05, 2020, 04:23:15 PM »
Why not Tulsi Gabbard?

Mostly the same reason I hated to think about having to get onboard with Bloomberg.  We are trying to get rid of Trump, don't need Trump-lite.  They each (in different ways) have too much in common with him.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2496 on: March 05, 2020, 04:33:16 PM »
Why not Tulsi Gabbard?

Mostly the same reason I hated to think about having to get onboard with Bloomberg.  We are trying to get rid of Trump, don't need Trump-lite.  They each (in different ways) have too much in common with him.

Really?  I find her interesting. Someone who comes to the table with different ideas. Folks on the margins aren't exactly inspired by the same tired old, same tired old. But you're probably right. This is all about obtaining and consolidating power anyway.   
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 04:49:54 PM by Buffaloski Boris »

American GenX

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2497 on: March 05, 2020, 05:12:46 PM »
Why not Tulsi Gabbard?

Mostly the same reason I hated to think about having to get onboard with Bloomberg.  We are trying to get rid of Trump, don't need Trump-lite.  They each (in different ways) have too much in common with him.

Really?  I find her interesting. Someone who comes to the table with different ideas. Folks on the margins aren't exactly inspired by the same tired old, same tired old. But you're probably right. This is all about obtaining and consolidating power anyway.

I like Tulsi.  It's a shame she was never given much media coverage or debate time on the stage.

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2498 on: March 05, 2020, 05:23:16 PM »

- SNIP -

I like Tulsi.  It's a shame she was never given much media coverage or debate time on the stage.

She did a good job ruffling feathers over her opposition to the endless US wars.  She kind of took a bite out of Harris who then quickly faded.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #2499 on: March 05, 2020, 05:31:49 PM »
Why not Tulsi Gabbard?

Mostly the same reason I hated to think about having to get onboard with Bloomberg.  We are trying to get rid of Trump, don't need Trump-lite.  They each (in different ways) have too much in common with him.

Really?  I find her interesting. Someone who comes to the table with different ideas. Folks on the margins aren't exactly inspired by the same tired old, same tired old. But you're probably right. This is all about obtaining and consolidating power anyway.

I like Tulsi.  It's a shame she was never given much media coverage or debate time on the stage.

She's still running last I checked.  Although apparently she won't be allowed in the next debate.