Author Topic: 2020 POTUS Candidates  (Read 292292 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1200 on: October 25, 2019, 07:50:09 AM »
What exactly do you want from me?
Obliquely, I'm supporting you (as I did Trudeau) because of course it's silly to read the worst possible intentions into every statement. I don't want to live in a world where people are reduced to the dumbest thing they ever posted on social media.

And sorry--I'm using you a little as an example to make a broader point about how it is impossible calculate every possible interpretation that might be read into a statement or gesture; e.g. Karl Popper's "It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood". Anyone at any time can fail to foresee how something can be insulting in a certain context. If we really cared about each other's feelings, we would never say anything!

I don't want your "support", nor do I feel that it's warranted.  I fucked up by not properly considering the context of my words.  My mistake was pointed out to me.  I agreed that a mistake had been made.  The issue was resolved.  Why do you feel a need to "support" me?


The entire comment I had made about Trudeau (without your selective out of context clipping):
I think Trudeau's actions were overtly racist.  I think the argument that he didn't know doing this was racist is bullshit.  Social media use and availability of images has certainly grown over the last thirty years, but the acceptability of dressing up in black face has not changed.  Is the transgression not forgiven?  Yes, sure it can be forgiven.  Trudeau's actions have been above board since his racist past.  But those actions should not be forgotten . . . and they should give anyone pause when thinking about his judgement.

So, taken in the context of a discussion about Trudeau's fitness to lead a country . . . how is that reading the worst possible intention into every statement, or reducing Trudeau to the dumbest thing he ever posted on social media?



Finally, this topic is probably a fetish of mine since I'm nearly a free-speech absolutist and also believe that the line is being moved in the wrong direction with respect to social acceptance of certain forms of "risky" speech (e.g. various strains of satire and artistic expression). Let's spend our time worrying about actual racism or actual homophobia, and not on cosplay or little jokes made on a message board.

As a free speech absolutist, how do you feel about the imprisonment of Charles Manson?  He was convicted of murder despite the prosecution providing evidence that he had never personally taken part in any of the murders he was charged for.  His crime was his speech.

turketron

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1201 on: October 25, 2019, 08:46:09 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/25/tulsi-gabbard-congress-drops-bid/

She's still in the Presidential Primary, but Tulsi has dropped her reelection bid for Congress. Not really sure what to make of this given her low polling numbers, so what's her strategy here?

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1202 on: October 25, 2019, 09:18:05 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/25/tulsi-gabbard-congress-drops-bid/

She's still in the Presidential Primary, but Tulsi has dropped her reelection bid for Congress. Not really sure what to make of this given her low polling numbers, so what's her strategy here?

Because she was highly likely to get primaried:

Quote
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2020-democrat-tulsi-gabbard-vulnerable-to-primary-challenge-in-her-house-district-poll-shows

The top contender is out-fundraising her. The presidential primary, same as Beto, is the best way to raise her profile without an actual office.

Daisy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1203 on: October 25, 2019, 10:47:13 AM »
Tulsi goes on Hannity with Republican talking points.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dem-tulsi-gabbard-echoes-republican-frustrations-with-impeachment-inquiry-i-dont-know-whats-going-on-in-those-closed-doors

Did you see the actual interview? She pushes back on Hannity several times and doesn't enter into his trap.

I find it hilarious a progressive candidate like Tulsi is being branded as a Republican.

I don't enter enter hyper partisan discussions.

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1204 on: October 25, 2019, 02:24:43 PM »
Maybe Tulsi’s angling for a job on Fox.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/25/politics/tulsi-gabbard-2020-hawaii/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fapple.news%2FAjOrKc2UXS0mnQ7EcFuEiVw

I hope so. We do not need a fake progressive running third party again.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1205 on: October 25, 2019, 02:28:31 PM »
Tulsi goes on Hannity with Republican talking points.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dem-tulsi-gabbard-echoes-republican-frustrations-with-impeachment-inquiry-i-dont-know-whats-going-on-in-those-closed-doors

Did you see the actual interview? She pushes back on Hannity several times and doesn't enter into his trap.

I find it hilarious a progressive candidate like Tulsi is being branded as a Republican.

I don't enter enter hyper partisan discussions.

1. She went on Fox, on Tucker Carlson.

2. She is there specifically to harp on Hillary Clinton with Tucker. He begins by saying the other Democrats are afraid of him. She says nothing to contradict that.

3. She allows Carlson to say a bunch of absolute partisan BS about the Carter Page Russian dossier thing, without challenging it at all.

4. She lets him yammer on about the "secret hearings", and then says, “I don't know what's going on in those closed doors,” Gabbard said. “We as members of Congress do not have access to the information that's being shared. I think the American people deserve to know exactly what the facts are, what the evidence is being presented as this inquiry goes on."

No. It's a closed-door inquiry. With members of both parties involved. This is how it works. She is either lying or she doesn't understand the process.

5. Hannity asks Gabbard for her thoughts on Hunter Biden’s ties to a Ukrainian firm with "no experience". “Those are questions only Hunter Biden can answer,” Gabbard said repeatedly, giving more credence to the Republican line. Not one reference to the far worse conflicts of interest in the Trump administration with his hiring of people in his own family with no experience: Ivanka, Don Jr. Jared.

6. The last thing she says is that she and Tucker Carlson agree that Hillary Clinton must be stopped.

Yeah. I see absolutely no pushback at all. Sorry.

big_owl

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1206 on: October 25, 2019, 02:54:21 PM »
I would LOL if Tulsi ran as a 3P to spite Hillary.  Clintons could deep-six the dems yet again.

Daisy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1207 on: October 25, 2019, 02:57:39 PM »
Tulsi goes on Hannity with Republican talking points.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dem-tulsi-gabbard-echoes-republican-frustrations-with-impeachment-inquiry-i-dont-know-whats-going-on-in-those-closed-doors

Did you see the actual interview? She pushes back on Hannity several times and doesn't enter into his trap.

I find it hilarious a progressive candidate like Tulsi is being branded as a Republican.

I don't enter enter hyper partisan discussions.

1. She went on Fox, on Tucker Carlson.

2. She is there specifically to harp on Hillary Clinton with Tucker. He begins by saying the other Democrats are afraid of him. She says nothing to contradict that.

3. She allows Carlson to say a bunch of absolute partisan BS about the Carter Page Russian dossier thing, without challenging it at all.

4. She lets him yammer on about the "secret hearings", and then says, “I don't know what's going on in those closed doors,” Gabbard said. “We as members of Congress do not have access to the information that's being shared. I think the American people deserve to know exactly what the facts are, what the evidence is being presented as this inquiry goes on."

No. It's a closed-door inquiry. With members of both parties involved. This is how it works. She is either lying or she doesn't understand the process.

5. Hannity asks Gabbard for her thoughts on Hunter Biden’s ties to a Ukrainian firm with "no experience". “Those are questions only Hunter Biden can answer,” Gabbard said repeatedly, giving more credence to the Republican line. Not one reference to the far worse conflicts of interest in the Trump administration with his hiring of people in his own family with no experience: Ivanka, Don Jr. Jared.

6. The last thing she says is that she and Tucker Carlson agree that Hillary Clinton must be stopped.

Yeah. I see absolutely no pushback at all. Sorry.

Wow talk about having different filters in each of our minds for the same interview. I saw her trying not to fall into Hannity's trap of getting her to comment on another candidates son's actions as smart. And kudos to her for talking about Hillary that way because I agree with her.

It seems like both you and I have our our minds made up on Tulsi, although on different sides, so probably not worth discussing more. I hope whoever you are supporting does well too.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1208 on: October 25, 2019, 03:03:30 PM »
I would LOL if Tulsi ran as a 3P to spite Hillary.  Clintons could deep-six the dems yet again.

Maybe... But the only people I see who support here are Libertarians and never-Trump Republicans. I don't think she'd be drawing people from the left.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1209 on: October 25, 2019, 03:04:03 PM »
Tulsi goes on Hannity with Republican talking points.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dem-tulsi-gabbard-echoes-republican-frustrations-with-impeachment-inquiry-i-dont-know-whats-going-on-in-those-closed-doors

Did you see the actual interview? She pushes back on Hannity several times and doesn't enter into his trap.

I find it hilarious a progressive candidate like Tulsi is being branded as a Republican.

I don't enter enter hyper partisan discussions.

1. She went on Fox, on Tucker Carlson.

2. She is there specifically to harp on Hillary Clinton with Tucker. He begins by saying the other Democrats are afraid of him. She says nothing to contradict that.

3. She allows Carlson to say a bunch of absolute partisan BS about the Carter Page Russian dossier thing, without challenging it at all.

4. She lets him yammer on about the "secret hearings", and then says, “I don't know what's going on in those closed doors,” Gabbard said. “We as members of Congress do not have access to the information that's being shared. I think the American people deserve to know exactly what the facts are, what the evidence is being presented as this inquiry goes on."

No. It's a closed-door inquiry. With members of both parties involved. This is how it works. She is either lying or she doesn't understand the process.

5. Hannity asks Gabbard for her thoughts on Hunter Biden’s ties to a Ukrainian firm with "no experience". “Those are questions only Hunter Biden can answer,” Gabbard said repeatedly, giving more credence to the Republican line. Not one reference to the far worse conflicts of interest in the Trump administration with his hiring of people in his own family with no experience: Ivanka, Don Jr. Jared.

6. The last thing she says is that she and Tucker Carlson agree that Hillary Clinton must be stopped.

Yeah. I see absolutely no pushback at all. Sorry.

Wow talk about having different filters in each of our minds for the same interview. I saw her trying not to fall into Hannity's trap of getting her to comment on another candidates son's actions as smart. And kudos to her for talking about Hillary that way because I agree with her.

It seems like both you and I have our our minds made up on Tulsi, although on different sides, so probably not worth discussing more. I hope whoever you are supporting does well too.

I'm not really supporting anyone at this point.

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1210 on: October 25, 2019, 06:26:05 PM »
I don't like war.  I like the fact that Tulsi doesn't support endless war.  That is a big thing that affects more than the present generation who is doing the fighting / peacekeeping.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1211 on: October 25, 2019, 07:08:27 PM »
I don't like war either. I demonstrated against GHWB's Gulf War in 1991, and have demonstrated frequently for peace in the decades since then. I am definitely a pacifist.

That doesn't mean that I think bullshit pull-out strategies that actually make everything worse are the answer.

former player

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1212 on: October 26, 2019, 06:16:51 AM »
I don't like war.
I don't think I've ever met someone who does like war.  Have you?

Daisy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1213 on: October 26, 2019, 08:20:52 AM »
I don't like war.
I don't think I've ever met someone who does like war.  Have you?

One person comes to mind.

https://youtu.be/6DXDU48RHLU

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1214 on: October 26, 2019, 08:49:14 AM »
I don't like war.
I don't think I've ever met someone who does like war.  Have you?

The people who profit from it do. Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon...

former player

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1215 on: October 26, 2019, 09:52:56 AM »
I don't like war.
I don't think I've ever met someone who does like war.  Have you?

One person comes to mind.

https://youtu.be/6DXDU48RHLU
I thought that would be a picture of Dubya.

former player

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1216 on: October 26, 2019, 09:53:48 AM »
I don't like war.
I don't think I've ever met someone who does like war.  Have you?

The people who profit from it do. Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon...
I said "met" not "know of", and not "makes money off".

Daisy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1217 on: October 26, 2019, 09:54:12 AM »
I don't like war.
I don't think I've ever met someone who does like war.  Have you?

One person comes to mind.

https://youtu.be/6DXDU48RHLU
I thought that would be a picture of Dubya.

Dubya qualifies too.

And here is another beauty.

https://youtu.be/BQWLuBWjneM

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1218 on: October 26, 2019, 10:19:31 AM »
I think some of these politicians are to far removed from the tragic reality that they are causing folks in other countries.  I guess a lot of them have always been a bit warlike.  Here's a guy they really punished who was not a "team player" a few years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb13ynu3Iac


lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1219 on: October 28, 2019, 06:07:11 PM »
What exactly do you want from me?
Obliquely, I'm supporting you (as I did Trudeau) because of course it's silly to read the worst possible intentions into every statement. I don't want to live in a world where people are reduced to the dumbest thing they ever posted on social media.

And sorry--I'm using you a little as an example to make a broader point about how it is impossible calculate every possible interpretation that might be read into a statement or gesture; e.g. Karl Popper's "It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood". Anyone at any time can fail to foresee how something can be insulting in a certain context. If we really cared about each other's feelings, we would never say anything!

I don't want your "support", nor do I feel that it's warranted.  I fucked up by not properly considering the context of my words.  My mistake was pointed out to me.  I agreed that a mistake had been made.  The issue was resolved.  Why do you feel a need to "support" me?


The entire comment I had made about Trudeau (without your selective out of context clipping):
I think Trudeau's actions were overtly racist.  I think the argument that he didn't know doing this was racist is bullshit.  Social media use and availability of images has certainly grown over the last thirty years, but the acceptability of dressing up in black face has not changed.  Is the transgression not forgiven?  Yes, sure it can be forgiven.  Trudeau's actions have been above board since his racist past.  But those actions should not be forgotten . . . and they should give anyone pause when thinking about his judgement.

So, taken in the context of a discussion about Trudeau's fitness to lead a country . . . how is that reading the worst possible intention into every statement, or reducing Trudeau to the dumbest thing he ever posted on social media?



Finally, this topic is probably a fetish of mine since I'm nearly a free-speech absolutist and also believe that the line is being moved in the wrong direction with respect to social acceptance of certain forms of "risky" speech (e.g. various strains of satire and artistic expression). Let's spend our time worrying about actual racism or actual homophobia, and not on cosplay or little jokes made on a message board.

As a free speech absolutist, how do you feel about the imprisonment of Charles Manson?  He was convicted of murder despite the prosecution providing evidence that he had never personally taken part in any of the murders he was charged for.  His crime was his speech.
Your comment was specifically that black face = racism. It was a narrow comment on that specific matter, not one about the broader implications of a Trudeau victory. It's empirically true that black face is not racism, unless you think a considerable plurality of people are racist, per the Pew poll. However, if all expression that could be interpreted as racist should be considered as such, why not consider all expression that could be considered homophobic as such?

It's because I think you are clearly not a homophobe that I "support you". I don't even think you had much of anything to apologize for because anyone remotely familiar with your perspective would naturally assume your intentions were not pernicious, even if one particular reading of it could be interpreted negatively.

I don't know much at all about Manson, though regarding criminal psychology, this is a fascinating YT channel (especially the one on Col. Russell Williams). I didn't say I was an absolutist though--just "nearly" an absolutist.

I'm sorry though--I'm probably being an idiot and don't realize it yet.

LonerMatt

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1220 on: October 28, 2019, 09:34:54 PM »
How can that be empirically true?

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1221 on: October 28, 2019, 09:37:35 PM »
How can that be empirically true?
One of two things is true: 1/3 of people are racist or blackface is not always racist

FIPurpose

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1222 on: October 28, 2019, 10:24:43 PM »
How can that be empirically true?
One of two things is true: 1/3 of people are racist or blackface is not always racist

Yeaaaahh I don't think 1/3  people have put on blackface. I'd believe closer to 2-5%.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1223 on: October 28, 2019, 10:28:06 PM »
How can that be empirically true?
One of two things is true: 1/3 of people are racist or blackface is not always racist

Yeaaaahh I don't think 1/3  people have put on blackface. I'd believe closer to 2-5%.
No, it's about what the belief is regarding the meaning of blackface; here is the link again:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/11/about-a-third-of-americans-say-blackface-in-a-halloween-costume-is-acceptable-at-least-sometimes/

LonerMatt

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1224 on: October 28, 2019, 10:55:09 PM »
You're assuming that people's opinion of a thing is what makes it racist or not. That's not true.

LonerMatt

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1225 on: October 28, 2019, 10:56:27 PM »
Also I'd totally buy that 30% of Americans have at least one racist opinion.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1226 on: October 28, 2019, 11:24:07 PM »
Also I'd totally buy that 30% of Americans have at least one racist opinion.
That is at least a coherent opinion in light of the Pew poll but sounds entirely too convenient given that this is a very specific question about a specific type of (potentially) racist expression. Secondly, note that in the case of Trudeau, this question is asked 17 years too late--and given the crosstabs in the Pew poll, it's likely this would have been a majority opinion in 2001. Finally, remember how the label of "deplorables" went for Hillary and how potentially dissonant such a characterization is with middle America. It's more reasonable to believe (as I do) that people have differing opinions on the cultural meaning of blackface in various contexts without necessarily being racist (though some subset of people, of course, are actually racist). This would be a boring opinion of not for the great forgetting about what norms existed very recently in the US until the ideological and cultural wars intensified. Just because not everyone is apprised of the new coastal-elitist and college town norms doesn't mean that they are racist or that the new norms are reasonable.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1227 on: October 28, 2019, 11:25:26 PM »
You're assuming that people's opinion of a thing is what makes it racist or not. That's not true.
To be clear, I'm saying the meaning of a form of expression is what makes it racist. Given that people disagree about the meaning of things, I am resorting to polls about what people believe that meaning to be.

LonerMatt

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1228 on: October 29, 2019, 12:23:24 AM »
You're assuming that people's opinion of a thing is what makes it racist or not. That's not true.
To be clear, I'm saying the meaning of a form of expression is what makes it racist. Given that people disagree about the meaning of things, I am resorting to polls about what people believe that meaning to be.

Meaning comes from a lot of places, consensus is one, but so is context and history. Perhaps a majority of Australians don't think 'coon' is a racial slur, but that doesn't change it's history of usage or what the word means, only our collective understanding of those things.

Blackface has an intrinsically racist history of usage. Whether people want to acknowledge that, or know about it, or agree with it doesn't change it one iota.

Perhaps a logical question following your argument is: since the majority of poll respondents think it's racist why is that not definitive?

Roland of Gilead

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1229 on: October 29, 2019, 04:55:07 AM »
It is a lot more than 30% that are racist.   Almost everyone in the world is racist to some extent against other races, not just White vs Black or Black vs White.   Black vs Hispanic, Asian vs Black, White vs Asian, Asian vs White.

TheContinentalOp

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1230 on: November 01, 2019, 07:16:40 AM »

Poundwise

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1231 on: November 01, 2019, 08:10:47 AM »
Warren just posted her M4A plan today.  https://medium.com/@teamwarren/ending-the-stranglehold-of-health-care-costs-on-american-families-bf8286b13086

Post the plan for your favorite candidate and let's do a head to head comparison!

OurTown

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1232 on: November 01, 2019, 09:56:32 AM »
The Warren plan is unlikely to pass but you have to start the conversation somewhere. 

PathtoFIRE

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1233 on: November 01, 2019, 11:11:22 AM »
<Graph about Republican favorable views towards non-Trump candidates>

Sample seems small, and is there any real statistical difference between any of those results, except for Gabbard? And is Gabbard so high because she's being talked up by Fox News lately? Also at least in TX Beto has relatively high numbers, so this looks off, with him down at the bottom. In my zip code, which currently has a Democratic congressman but is a very traditionally Republican stronghold, Beto and Trump are neck and neck.
Recipient                Total
O'Rourke, Beto        $1,449,871
Trump, Donald         $1,329,843
Biden, Joe               $485,965
Buttigieg, Pete         $366,556
Sanders, Bernie       $342,307
Source: https://www.opensecrets.org/states/ this data is as of 10/16/2019

DarkandStormy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1234 on: November 01, 2019, 12:39:55 PM »
Biden is down to 3rd or possibly 4th in Iowa.  2nd or 3rd in NH.  Barely hanging on to a lead in NV.  His play is clearly SC, which is 4th, but can he sustain 3 early losses?  He's so cash-strapped he's accepting super PAC money now.  Not looking good for him.

Harris is consolidating everything to Iowa.  She's shutting down her Baltimore office.  Her only hope (I guess?) is a strong Iowa showing and hang on to super Tuesday and hope California comes through.  She's flat-lined since the first debate.

secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1235 on: November 01, 2019, 04:39:30 PM »
O'Rourke is out.  IMHO the first "real" candidate to drop out.  Sounded like he ran out of money.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1236 on: November 02, 2019, 05:42:56 AM »
Should be lots of activity leading up to Nov 20th debate.

Will Castro join fellow Texan Beto on the sidelines? (hopefully, just to get it down to 10 for the debate, as Gabbard will probably make it)

Will the pro-Biden super PAC stay out of the primary? (And even if it never mentions any other Dem candidate, and only focuses on pro-Biden and anti-Trump messages, isn't that still designed to give Biden a boost in the primary?)

Will we get an Iowa poll result before Nov 20th showing Pete in the lead? (There's a recent NH poll showing Bernie in the lead, and Pete appears to be gaining momentum in Iowa)


pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1237 on: November 02, 2019, 12:57:07 PM »
I saw a you tube video recently where they had Pete in front of the same crowd as Bernie.  They were both asked about their respective medical enhancements.  Pete gave his argument for Medicare for all who want it (or whatever he calls it.)  It was greeted with a ho hum response from the crowd.  They sort of had that, "Are you done yet?" look on their faces.  Then Bernie launched into his normal spiel of helping everyone.  He gave a few examples like insulin cost and then gave the statistic of how the US pays more than the rest of the world per capita for healthcare.  They smiled and cheered for Medicare For All.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1238 on: November 04, 2019, 08:35:53 AM »
I saw a you tube video recently where they had Pete in front of the same crowd as Bernie.  They were both asked about their respective medical enhancements.  Pete gave his argument for Medicare for all who want it (or whatever he calls it.)  It was greeted with a ho hum response from the crowd.  They sort of had that, "Are you done yet?" look on their faces.  Then Bernie launched into his normal spiel of helping everyone.  He gave a few examples like insulin cost and then gave the statistic of how the US pays more than the rest of the world per capita for healthcare.  They smiled and cheered for Medicare For All.

I mean, audience reaction really depends on...the audience. By all accounts, Pete's reception at the LJ Dinner in Iowa on Friday was pretty much tied with Warren's, and far superior to the others, including Bernie, but some of it depends on how much $ the candidates were willing to spend on admissions.

I'm still trying to figure out Beto. Essentially, he goes hard left-wing, then at the debates he gift wraps to the GOP a video clip they will play a million times against WHOEVER the Dems nominate in the general, and then, after hundreds of Beto followers fly in to Iowa from across the country to support him on Friday, he...drops out hours before the LJ dinner.

And his hard left tilt probably destroyed any chance he has of ever holding statewide office in Texas. He might have to get a regular job.

Samuel

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1239 on: November 04, 2019, 09:48:22 AM »
Only 364 more days of this. Sigh.

Kris

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1240 on: November 04, 2019, 09:57:06 AM »

YttriumNitrate

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1241 on: November 04, 2019, 10:02:36 AM »
Only 364 more days of this. Sigh.
365. 2020 is a leap year, so we get an extra day of this nonsense.

GuitarStv

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1242 on: November 04, 2019, 10:13:33 AM »
In Canada campaign time for politicians is strictly limited to between 36 and 50 days.  And at the end of that it feels like they've been going on and on about the election . . . I can't imagine how burned out you guys are after two years of campaigning.

Roadrunner53

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1243 on: November 04, 2019, 10:38:11 AM »
In Canada campaign time for politicians is strictly limited to between 36 and 50 days.  And at the end of that it feels like they've been going on and on about the election . . . I can't imagine how burned out you guys are after two years of campaigning.

Yes, GuitarStv, it is just too much and I think we are all getting brain damage from it all. Trump seems like he never stopped the BS campaigning and he loves the limelight, the screaming, chanting crowds. I wish we could only have 50 days of this insanity!

sherr

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1244 on: November 04, 2019, 12:13:44 PM »
Yes, GuitarStv, it is just too much and I think we are all getting brain damage from it all. Trump seems like he never stopped the BS campaigning and he loves the limelight, the screaming, chanting crowds. I wish we could only have 50 days of this insanity!

He literally never stopped campaigning. He kept his campaign committee around and raising money for his 2020 reelection campaign since the 2016 election. The first money he spent on 2020 reelection was 16 days after his election, a month and a half before he even took office. It has been literal non-stop campaigning.

Nick_Miller

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1245 on: November 04, 2019, 12:44:25 PM »
Yes, GuitarStv, it is just too much and I think we are all getting brain damage from it all. Trump seems like he never stopped the BS campaigning and he loves the limelight, the screaming, chanting crowds. I wish we could only have 50 days of this insanity!

He literally never stopped campaigning. He kept his campaign committee around and raising money for his 2020 reelection campaign since the 2016 election. The first money he spent on 2020 reelection was 16 days after his election, a month and a half before he even took office. It has been literal non-stop campaigning.

I don't think this will stop with Trump. We're likely moving into a continuous campaign cycle. John Delaney announced 6 months into Trump's term. Yang announced just 4 months later, which was still in 2017.

pecunia

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1246 on: November 05, 2019, 04:58:53 PM »

- SNIP -

Yes, GuitarStv, it is just too much and I think we are all getting brain damage from it all. Trump seems like he never stopped the BS campaigning and he loves the limelight, the screaming, chanting crowds. I wish we could only have 50 days of this insanity!

I'll bet if some kind of organization was formed to make that the law, I think you would get a lot of people behind it.  Fifty days would be plenty and could, perhaps, put a better focus on what is truly important.

secondcor521

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1247 on: November 07, 2019, 09:48:47 AM »
Maybe it's just me and the particular news articles I see, but it sure feels like the Democratic nominee will be whomever is the flavor of the month when the primaries start to congeal on someone.

First it was Sanders, then maybe Harris, then no, definitely Biden, then no, probably Warren.  Now it seems like we're seeing a possible Warren to Buttigieg shift.  Every candidate has strengths and weaknesses; the strengths lead them into the limelight and their weaknesses shift them out and the next option in.

Question for the historians here:  Does a candidate who was in the lead and then faded ever come back again?  Does the size of the field matter affect the answer?  As best I can recall, the candidates who have been nominated by the major parties seem to have grabbed the lead at some point and then kept it, not traded off the lead with someone else.  The only possible exception might be the Obama/Clinton primary of 2008, but even there I think any trade offs of the lead happened early on.

partgypsy

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1248 on: November 07, 2019, 09:56:58 AM »
I was talking to two people who follow politics MUCH more than I do. I am basically, I like Warren, I like Klobuchar, but will vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is. One was really arguing about that Sanders is still the way to go. That he really can energize people to vote for him, in particular white working class males, that maybe other Democratic candidates don't resonate as much with.  The other person like Buttigieg but the Sanders person did NOT (I wasn't listening close enough to understand why). The other thing I thought was interesting is that both people also liked Yang, felt favorable towards him, but didn't think he had a shot.

Poundwise

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Re: 2020 POTUS Candidates
« Reply #1249 on: November 07, 2019, 11:07:12 AM »
I just read what seemed to be a very good summary of the race so far, with good graphics, here: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50097838