Poll

How do Mustachians typically vote? (You can choose more than one option)

Fiscally conservative, socially conservative
27 (5.8%)
Fiscally conservative, socially liberal
138 (29.6%)
Fiscally liberal, socially conservative
4 (0.9%)
Fiscally liberal, socially liberal
88 (18.9%)
Libertarian
67 (14.4%)
Green
31 (6.7%)
Independent (do not vote for the same party > 80% of time)
38 (8.2%)
By the candidate, not by the party
48 (10.3%)
Rarely or never vote
21 (4.5%)
None of the above/other (explain in comments)
4 (0.9%)

Total Members Voted: 284

Author Topic: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting  (Read 39749 times)

hybrid

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[POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« on: July 12, 2013, 08:31:39 PM »
Mustachians come in all stripes, but are all stripes the same size?  How do you typically cast your vote?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 08:46:37 PM by arebelspy »

arebelspy

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Re: Mustachian Voting
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 08:35:08 PM »
There's like three overlapping ones I would check. 

Can we change the poll to allow one to select more than one option?
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hybrid

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Re: Mustachian Voting
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 08:39:00 PM »
There's like three overlapping ones I would check. 

Can we change the poll to allow one to select more than one option?

That's fine by me, but I did not see that option when I clicked Edit Poll.

matchewed

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Re: Mustachian Voting
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2013, 08:39:55 PM »
Wait where's the Organized Anarchist Party?

And aside from the crappy joke I'd also like to select multiple ones.

arebelspy

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Re: Mustachian Voting
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 08:45:31 PM »
That's fine by me, but I did not see that option when I clicked Edit Poll.

I changed it.  Interesting idea, thanks for posting.
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hybrid

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Re: Mustachian Voting
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 08:51:03 PM »
That's fine by me, but I did not see that option when I clicked Edit Poll.

I changed it.  Interesting idea, thanks for posting.

Thanks!  And like a lot of other folks from a recent thread, it took me over a month before I "saw" A Rebel Spy.....  :)

Eric

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 09:09:00 PM »
I voted for "fiscally liberal", even though I think that sounds weird.  I'm going under the assumption that it means I generally support the spending priorities of Democrats instead of just meaning that I would like us to waste a lot of money.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 09:21:49 PM by Eric »

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 10:23:05 PM »
I voted for 3; I think I could have made it 4. I'm just not extreme.

Khan

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 10:53:30 PM »
I lean libertarian when it comes to "sin items"; personal freedoms, and privacy.
I lean liberal when it comes to economic regulations(sorry, I don't believe in free market jesus), global warming, evolution, and anything where there is a large amount of evidence on one side vs the other.
I believe that we should help the least amongst us, whether it be with conservative hero Milton Friedman's negative income tax, or the general hodgepodge of welfare programs we have.
I believe that taxes are an essential part of building and supporting infrastructure, and it is my duty to pay taxes, as it is everyone's. That said, I don't support our large military-industrial complex(was formerly a part of it too), private prisons(and private prison companies), or our vast intelligence complex.

hybrid

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2013, 07:21:42 AM »
I voted for "fiscally liberal", even though I think that sounds weird.  I'm going under the assumption that it means I generally support the spending priorities of Democrats instead of just meaning that I would like us to waste a lot of money.

I think people can interpret it anyway they like, to me it means things like supporting a Keynesian approach to fiscal stimulus vs. austerity, supporting a larger social safety net, resistance to a balanced budget amendment, etc.  Conservatives derisively call that "tax and spend", but that knock has lost a lot of its oomph when liberals charge conservatives with "borrow and spend" in return.

How you vote and how your elected leaders have actually performed in office are two different matters.  Very few of my conservative friends were satisfied with the Bush years, in spite of the fact that the conservatives controlled all three branches of government.  And a lot of liberals are equally unhappy with Obama - Reid - Pelosi for various reasons.

I am officially in the "A pox on both your houses" contingent, but I vote every election.

grantmeaname

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2013, 07:28:09 AM »
For your enjoyment: Presidential Election Unofficial Poll

I am officially in the "A pox on both your houses" contingent,
The "they're all scumbags" mindset goes back at least three generations in my family. Mistrust of authority, as my dad likes to remind me, is a deeply-held American value.

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2013, 07:52:56 AM »
Is this poll for 'Murricans only?
I think it could skew your results quite a lot otherwise. "Conservatives" in many countries to the left of your Democrats on many issues. Libertarian isn't really a thing outside of the USA, I don't think.

ender

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2013, 09:24:37 AM »
 - Fiscally conservative (which isn't really reflected by current conservatives/Republicans)
 - Socially decently liberal

This makes me vote libertarian :)

olivia

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2013, 09:37:20 AM »
I lean libertarian when it comes to "sin items"; personal freedoms, and privacy.
I lean liberal when it comes to economic regulations(sorry, I don't believe in free market jesus), global warming, evolution, and anything where there is a large amount of evidence on one side vs the other.
I believe that we should help the least amongst us, whether it be with conservative hero Milton Friedman's negative income tax, or the general hodgepodge of welfare programs we have.
I believe that taxes are an essential part of building and supporting infrastructure, and it is my duty to pay taxes, as it is everyone's. That said, I don't support our large military-industrial complex(was formerly a part of it too), private prisons(and private prison companies), or our vast intelligence complex.

Ditto all of this!

arebelspy

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2013, 09:56:59 AM »
For your enjoyment: Presidential Election Unofficial Poll

I am officially in the "A pox on both your houses" contingent,
The "they're all scumbags" mindset goes back at least three generations in my family. Mistrust of authority, as my dad likes to remind me, is a deeply-held American value.

Yeah?  Cause it sure seems the mindset as of late is "eh, these bread and circuses pretty good."
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smalllife

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2013, 11:16:11 AM »
I was wondering this myself actually.

Fiscally conservative in that we shouldn't spend more than we have, but I am happy to spend on infrastructure and some safety net programs.
Socially liberal to the extreme for most people: the government shouldn't be involved except to prevent the religious right from restricting just about everything.
I will vote for the best non-Republican candidate.  As an atheist female I don't know why I would voluntarily subject myself to that.

grantmeaname

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2013, 12:04:57 PM »
the government shouldn't be involved except to prevent the religious right from restricting just about everything.
You're saying that the government should step in and intervene to prevent values that you disagree with from having a chance to gain hold in society? Isn't that what the creationists on the Texas school board believe?

Khan

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2013, 12:15:23 PM »
the government shouldn't be involved except to prevent the religious right from restricting just about everything.
You're saying that the government should step in and intervene to prevent values that you disagree with from having a chance to gain hold in society? Isn't that what the creationists on the Texas school board believe?

Yeah, except you know, science and all that.

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2013, 12:29:03 PM »
I majored in anthropology - this isn't about young earth creationism. Substitute any other social issue, if you'd life - WBC's views on homosexuality, or Gene Ray's Time cube, or whether English should be the national language.

This is about whether or not its acceptable for the government to be the arbiter of taste. I found it odd that smalllife bristled that the government would do so for other peoples' preferences, but was effectively asking that the government enforce her preferences. Either you believe the government has a place enforcing taste and beliefs or you don't -- it's intellectually bankrupt to say "the government has no place enforcing things I disagree with, but there's a compelling national interest in the government stepping into private discourse to promote things that I do agree with".

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2013, 12:36:24 PM »
Fiscally libertarian
Socially moderate/lean conservative

I vote in every election, but I am appalled at the nature of politics and political discourse. Even some of the things already said in this thread are indicative of how divisive people are these days. And they probably don't even realize they're doing it.

I think that reasonable people can disagree about how to approach political topics. Unfortunately, I also think that reasonable people make up the minority of people who actually pay attention to politics. Or, at best, they're a slight silent majority.

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2013, 12:39:03 PM »
Now that I look at the results, I wonder why this blog/board attracts so many social liberals? I know that MMM leans fairly strongly to the left. Rejecting consumerism doesn't seem either left or right to me, and most really frugal people I know are pretty conservative people all around. I do live in a conservative area, but I try not to limit myself to thinking that's the way it is everywhere.

Lans Holman

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2013, 12:44:47 PM »
Now that I look at the results, I wonder why this blog/board attracts so many social liberals? I know that MMM leans fairly strongly to the left. Rejecting consumerism doesn't seem either left or right to me, and most really frugal people I know are pretty conservative people all around. I do live in a conservative area, but I try not to limit myself to thinking that's the way it is everywhere.

I was surprised by that too, I thought there was a larger socially conservative contingent.


 

This is about whether or not its acceptable for the government to be the arbiter of taste.  found it odd that smalllife bristled that the government would do so for other peoples' preferences, but was effectively asking that the government enforce her preferences. Either you believe the government has a place enforcing taste and beliefs or you don't -- it's intellectually bankrupt to say "the government has no place enforcing things I disagree with, but there's a compelling national interest in the government stepping into private discourse to promote things that I do agree with".

This is a strange definition of "taste" and "private discourse", if you're still talking about the Texas school board.  How does wanting to make sure students are presented with scientifically accurate information in science class fall under those headings?

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2013, 01:26:21 PM »
Now that I look at the results, I wonder why this blog/board attracts so many social liberals?

Age?  Younger people as a group have always been more socially liberal than their parents.

arebelspy

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2013, 01:36:51 PM »
Now that I look at the results, I wonder why this blog/board attracts so many social liberals?

Age?  Younger people as a group have always been more socially liberal than their parents.

That doesn't explain these numbers though.  As of this post there are 57 people who picked one of the two options that have "socially liberal" in it, and there are 3 that picked one of the two options with "socially conservative."

95% to 5% is not solely explained by age demographics.

Partially related, but also not fully explaining it: I think many people view themselves as "socially liberal," due to one or two particular issues, but aren't necessarily so.
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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2013, 01:46:55 PM »
Now that I look at the results, I wonder why this blog/board attracts so many social liberals? I know that MMM leans fairly strongly to the left. Rejecting consumerism doesn't seem either left or right to me, and most really frugal people I know are pretty conservative people all around. I do live in a conservative area, but I try not to limit myself to thinking that's the way it is everywhere.

Perhaps this is regional. In the places I've lived (different places on the East Coast and Hawaii)  "rejecting consumerism" is considered pretty firmly left. I'm thinking of things like biking, thrift stores, gardening, canning, fuel efficient cars, etc.  One of my co-workers lectures me that it's my duty as an American to spend as much as I can and support the economy and that his "super-Republican" (his phrase)  father taught him that. 

But I agree, smart financial planning is for everyone!

grantmeaname

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2013, 03:14:19 PM »
This is a strange definition of "taste" and "private discourse", if you're still talking about the Texas school board.  How does wanting to make sure students are presented with scientifically accurate information in science class fall under those headings?
She didn't say "evolution", she said "practically everything".

randymarsh

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2013, 03:19:49 PM »
Now that I look at the results, I wonder why this blog/board attracts so many social liberals? I know that MMM leans fairly strongly to the left. Rejecting consumerism doesn't seem either left or right to me, and most really frugal people I know are pretty conservative people all around. I do live in a conservative area, but I try not to limit myself to thinking that's the way it is everywhere.

Interesting. Rejecting consumerism seems very left to me. There is strong conservative attitude I see of "If I can afford it, I have the right to buy it and nobody is going to tell me I can't or shouldn't". Even when money isn't really involved, they hate being told/suggested what decision to make. See: The attacks on Michelle Obama over her fit kids program.

I'd also say that MMM is very much about logic and looking at the entire picture. Typically, social conservatives don't seem to use logic as the deciding factor. Hard core social conservatives at least. I don't want to suggest that these people are unintelligent, but that these types of choices seem more driven by emotion/religion for them.



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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2013, 03:33:19 PM »
Now that I look at the results, I wonder why this blog/board attracts so many social liberals? I know that MMM leans fairly strongly to the left. Rejecting consumerism doesn't seem either left or right to me, and most really frugal people I know are pretty conservative people all around. I do live in a conservative area, but I try not to limit myself to thinking that's the way it is everywhere.

Interesting. Rejecting consumerism seems very left to me.

It is... and it isn't.  There's often a distrust/dislike of the corporations, but still a big fat desire to consume the products.  (I'm generalizing wildly about "the left" and not necessarily those of MMM persuasion that also lean left.

And it seems to generally be a lefty thing on the individual level, but the opposite on the public level.  I.e, they tend to reject it for themselves but embrace it for the government.  Ironic.

Khan

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2013, 03:49:48 PM »
And it seems to generally be a lefty thing on the individual level, but the opposite on the public level.  I.e, they tend to reject it for themselves but embrace it for the government.  Ironic.

I don't get this statement at all, please elaborate.

matchewed

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2013, 04:23:52 PM »
And it seems to generally be a lefty thing on the individual level, but the opposite on the public level.  I.e, they tend to reject it for themselves but embrace it for the government.  Ironic.

I don't get this statement at all, please elaborate.

An example; instead of paying for let's say private healthcare you would instead be okay with paying taxes for government healthcare.

Lans Holman

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2013, 04:33:57 PM »
And it seems to generally be a lefty thing on the individual level, but the opposite on the public level.  I.e, they tend to reject it for themselves but embrace it for the government.  Ironic.

I don't get this statement at all, please elaborate.

An example; instead of paying for let's say private healthcare you would instead be okay with paying taxes for government healthcare.

I don't think it's ironic or hypocritical to be OK with the government spending money on things I wouldn't.  I would never buy a new hardcover book, but I'm fine with spending tax money on the public library.  I don't live on a large piece of land, but I'm excited to live right next to a walking path that leads to a couple great parks. 

Spork

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2013, 04:43:22 PM »
And it seems to generally be a lefty thing on the individual level, but the opposite on the public level.  I.e, they tend to reject it for themselves but embrace it for the government.  Ironic.

I don't get this statement at all, please elaborate.

Probably the most mustacian mantra: live within your means.  If you're spending more than you're earning, you are on a losing track.  Pare back to bare essentials and you'll get ahead.  Now, the righties are pretty awful spenders, too.  The left has just been doing it longer.  (Yeah, I know: military industrial complex.... I'll circle back to that.)

I don't care how lofty the goal or how well intentioned... my own personal opinion here is that government has at least live within it's means.  We can bicker and argue over how much tax there is, who gets taxed, what it gets spent on... but jeezus... it has to be within our means and without any "magic math" where reducing the rate of increases is "savings".   It's one thing to piss away your own money and put yourself into a hole.  It's much worse when you're doing it with someone else's money -- often taken by force and spent on things that they are opposed to.

---
and yes, the righties can be just as bad with their military spending.  The only slight (slight) argument here is that military protection could be considered a bare essential.  But... you don't have to convince me that we're spending more than the essentials in this category.  Yes, it can be totally optimized. 

...so maybe I'm being too hard on the lefties... I know the righties are pretty awful in this regard as well.

matchewed

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2013, 04:54:22 PM »
And it seems to generally be a lefty thing on the individual level, but the opposite on the public level.  I.e, they tend to reject it for themselves but embrace it for the government.  Ironic.

I don't get this statement at all, please elaborate.

An example; instead of paying for let's say private healthcare you would instead be okay with paying taxes for government healthcare.

I don't think it's ironic or hypocritical to be OK with the government spending money on things I wouldn't.  I would never buy a new hardcover book, but I'm fine with spending tax money on the public library.  I don't live on a large piece of land, but I'm excited to live right next to a walking path that leads to a couple great parks.

Don't get me wrong I'm more than happy to pay taxes for those things as well. I'm just stating that the conservative viewpoint would take it as slightly ironic and showing the example of that irony. Trusting/paying money to the government or trusting/paying money to a private corporation for the same services and viewing them as two different things has a certain element of irony to it

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2013, 04:59:48 PM »
And it seems to generally be a lefty thing on the individual level, but the opposite on the public level.  I.e, they tend to reject it for themselves but embrace it for the government.  Ironic.

I don't get this statement at all, please elaborate.

An example; instead of paying for let's say private healthcare you would instead be okay with paying taxes for government healthcare.

I don't think it's ironic or hypocritical to be OK with the government spending money on things I wouldn't.  I would never buy a new hardcover book, but I'm fine with spending tax money on the public library.  I don't live on a large piece of land, but I'm excited to live right next to a walking path that leads to a couple great parks.

Don't get me wrong I'm more than happy to pay taxes for those things as well. I'm just stating that the conservative viewpoint would take it as slightly ironic and showing the example of that irony. Trusting/paying money to the government or trusting/paying money to a private corporation for the same services and viewing them as two different things has a certain element of irony to it

I'll bite.  They are two different things.
With a private company, you choose which services you want.  You decide if the cost is "worth it".  You pay with your money and evaluate afterwards if it was a good deal or not.
With government, everyone chooses what services they want, often choosing things you DO NOT WANT.  No one really decides if it is worth it, it's generally assumed we can afford it all.  You pay with someone else's money and there is really no circle back to determine if it was a good idea.  Once the spending starts on any particular thing, it is seriously hard to stop it.

Eric

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2013, 05:10:51 PM »
And it seems to generally be a lefty thing on the individual level, but the opposite on the public level.  I.e, they tend to reject it for themselves but embrace it for the government.  Ironic.

I don't get this statement at all, please elaborate.

An example; instead of paying for let's say private healthcare you would instead be okay with paying taxes for government healthcare.

I thought Spork was referring to a distrust of corporations.  But I guess it's not really clear.

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2013, 05:15:08 PM »
And it seems to generally be a lefty thing on the individual level, but the opposite on the public level.  I.e, they tend to reject it for themselves but embrace it for the government.  Ironic.

I don't get this statement at all, please elaborate.

An example; instead of paying for let's say private healthcare you would instead be okay with paying taxes for government healthcare.

I thought Spork was referring to a distrust of corporations.  But I guess it's not really clear.

Sorry.  No, I was referring to overconsumption in general.  Maybe that isn't technically "consumerism"... but... it feels the same to me.

matchewed

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2013, 05:18:06 PM »
Ah my mistake, rereading FTW. I'm taking things out of context and derailing the conversation inadvertently. I'll just stick as being a silent viewer for a short time.

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2013, 05:43:11 PM »
This poll makes me chuckle a bit about my own voting history in our local state elections.

- the Democrats (whose slogan was "keep the bastards honest") and now longer exist. Go figure.
- the 3 Day Weekend party
- the Abolish State Government party
- the Stable Population party (ok this is a serious one, and has a very mustachian platform)

I think at this election I'll vote for the Sex party, whose policies include better access to contraception, family planning services, and improved sex education for teens.

Of course under the preferential voting system my vote does end up with a mainstream party eventually, so I don't consider any of my choices wasted, just a case of giving my 1st preference to someone other than Labor/Liberal.

However we have nothing on the Brits. I'd dearly love to vote for the Monster Raving Loony party.

Kriegsspiel

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2013, 06:26:25 PM »
I do NOT get the "liberals are frugal" idea. C'mon guys.

Kriegsspiel

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2013, 06:27:11 PM »
WAIT!














What's this about a sex party now?

arebelspy

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2013, 06:52:24 PM »
Sounds almost as awesome as the Pirate Party.
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Kriegsspiel

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2013, 07:02:09 PM »
I remember watching a Pirate Party parade/riot/mob/Halloween costume party go by when I was living in Germany. It was awesome.

grantmeaname

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2013, 07:38:32 PM »
I do NOT get the "liberals are frugal" idea. C'mon guys.

Easy. The party I admire is the frugal one, the party I oppose is consumerist...

renbutler

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2013, 08:59:02 PM »
Interesting. Rejecting consumerism seems very left to me. There is strong conservative attitude I see of "If I can afford it, I have the right to buy it and nobody is going to tell me I can't or shouldn't". Even when money isn't really involved, they hate being told/suggested what decision to make. See: The attacks on Michelle Obama over her fit kids program.

And I find that response interesting in return. My extended family is notoriously frugal, but also quite conservative. We are very down-to-earth (typically Midwestern in that regard) and don't give a damn about having the latest crap that everybody else seems to have.

You are on target though with the "hate being told what decisions to make." But I'm not sure how that relates to frugality.

I'd also say that MMM is very much about logic and looking at the entire picture. Typically, social conservatives don't seem to use logic as the deciding factor. Hard core social conservatives at least. I don't want to suggest that these people are unintelligent, but that these types of choices seem more driven by emotion/religion for them.

I reject that theory almost 100%. It doesn't really seem to jive with any of my experiences in any way.

renbutler

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2013, 09:00:30 PM »
Perhaps this is regional. In the places I've lived (different places on the East Coast and Hawaii)  "rejecting consumerism" is considered pretty firmly left. I'm thinking of things like biking, thrift stores, gardening, canning, fuel efficient cars, etc.

In my area, hybrids and electric cars are quite a bit more popular among the left, it seems. But none of those other things you listed are remotely foreign or objectionable in my quite conservative area.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 09:04:14 PM by renbutler »

randymarsh

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2013, 10:10:06 PM »
You are on target though with the "hate being told what decisions to make." But I'm not sure how that relates to frugality.

Well a lot of MMM posts are about not buying Stuff. I don't think most conservatives actively seek out a website that tells them not to buy stuff. That's a change in behavior and by definition, I would argue, conservatism resists changes in behavior. MMM is leading an alternative lifestyle and I don't think it comes as much of a surprise that those leaning left are more interested.

renbutler

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2013, 10:16:28 AM »
I've never thought that MMM was "telling me not to buy stuff." He is simply sharing his story and leading by example. Sure, he might use insulting words at people like me who drive cars and others who do things he finds clownlike. But I have every right to ignore everything he says if I want.

There's a big difference between encouraging/leading and forcing people to do things. Some people suggest that the Church tells me how to live my life, but again, they simply tell me what they believe is the truth about life. They have no actual authority over me. I can still choose to live whatever moral and ethical life I want to lead.

The only people who can tell me how to live my life is the government. And that's where I have a great deal of caution. Obviously, we want to live in a place where people aren't allowed to murder and injure and steal. But every law beyond those kinds of basic expectations must be considered seriously before it is enacted. I support the idea of limited federal government because laws are created by a small number of people, many of them from areas with different priorities and values, and with no more than three of whom I had the power to help elect.

And for those who support large federal government, what happens if the size of government continues to increases, but then it's taken over by people with a drastically different philosophy from yours? Suddenly, that massive government might not look like what you want anymore...but now you've given them unbelievable amounts of power to affect your lives...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 10:20:00 AM by renbutler »

Eric

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2013, 10:52:51 AM »
And for those who support large federal government, what happens if the size of government continues to increases, but then it's taken over by people with a drastically different philosophy from yours? Suddenly, that massive government might not look like what you want anymore...but now you've given them unbelievable amounts of power to affect your lives...

The federal government will always continue to increase in size.  Both major parties support that and they receive ~98% of the vote.  Luckily the population the government serves continues to increase as well, so it's not as big of a problem as it seems in the abstract.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 10:55:46 AM by Eric »

hybrid

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2013, 12:18:02 PM »
Now that I look at the results, I wonder why this blog/board attracts so many social liberals? I know that MMM leans fairly strongly to the left. Rejecting consumerism doesn't seem either left or right to me, and most really frugal people I know are pretty conservative people all around. I do live in a conservative area, but I try not to limit myself to thinking that's the way it is everywhere.

I'm not at all surprised by the results thus far, they came down pretty much where I thought they would.  Bicycling, conservation, these are things that are going to attract a lot more social liberals than conservatives.  And as much as conservatives like to claim liberals are terrible with money, this website is dedicated to people who are much better at managing their money, so the stereotypes ascribed to liberals don't apply.  I live in Virginia where it is a lot easier to vote Democrat.  The reason being that we have a balanced budget amendment built into the state constitution, and that makes everyone in government much more fiscally conservative by default.  In recent years it has been the conservatives who have been guilty of fiscal mismanagement (Gilmore, then McDonnell).

I voted fiscal conservative, social liberal in this poll.  That makes my local voting easy, and my national voting a lot harder.  The Democrats in Washington have disappointed me mightily (their constant resistance to a balanced budget amendment at the very top of my list of disappointments), and I voted Libertarian in 2012.  The national GOP likes to talk a good talk about fiscal moderation, but when the rubber hits the road they vote for farm subsidies, a gynormous military, etc.  They had their chance to establish themselves as the fiscally prudent party at the turn of the century, and they went in the exact opposite direction instead.  I can't take them seriously when they bitch about the debt during a downturn, they should have been busy paying down the debt when the economy was humming . 

tomsang

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Re: [POLL] Mustachian Political Voting
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2013, 12:43:44 PM »
I am fiscally liberal. I want government spending to decrease in areas that do not improve our quality of life. Conservatives keep jacking up the military complex and spending a trillion in the process. Socially I am liberal as well, as I want a government that stays our of our lives.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 12:46:46 PM by tomsang »