Author Topic: "Trigger" words  (Read 17765 times)

Financial.Velociraptor

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"Trigger" words
« on: May 02, 2019, 11:08:27 AM »
I'll probably earn an (at least) temporary ban for this...

Hope the mods will entertain at least temporarily a "reverse safe-space". 

So this thread is MY thread.  If you are one of the self righteous and perpetually offended snowflake types, please start your own safe space thread.  You are welcome here but your histrionics are not (mine are - tough titties).  Again, MY thread.  Start your own if you like, I'll either ignore said thread or at least play nicely by the local rules.

So it seems I used a "trigger word" on another thread.  I was asked (politely) to edit said trigger word out.  I decided to comply and will be more careful about such behavior in the future.  Except on this thread.  This is for a candid discussion of the obnoxious component of political correctness.

Back in nursery school, I learned a little rhyme.  It started "sticks and stones".  I'd bet dollars to donuts that everyone here from an English speaking country learned the same rhyme.  Somehow, the lesson of that rhyme (which is intuitive to 4 year olds) is lost on the majority of American teens and even adults.  Seriously?!? WORDS hurt your feelings?  Have you no self-esteem?  Is your "locus of control" so far external to you that other people are fully in control of your attitude?  That my friends, is exactly counter to the Stoic element of Mustachianism.  Take up a mindfulness meditation already.

So, I get it.  It costs me very little to comply with your request.  And to refuse to do so shows a lack of graciousness.  (And except for this thread, I generally comply with such requests as noted above).  But what about my free speech?  You get to be angry (perpetually offended even) but I have to be completely cool and passive while you lose your shit over my behavior?  When do I get to lose my shit over you being an enormously excessively sensitive snowflake PUSSY?!?  *FACEPUNCH*  Life is hard.  Face facts, you are a big wimp and need to grow up.  Else, you will never be effectively an adult.  And, oh yeah, your behavior is passive-aggressive.  Somebody needs to call you people out on your bullshit already.

Here's the elephant in the room.  The truth is the real victim of political correctness.  It is now no longer socially permissible to call a spade a spade.   In World War II, 19 year olds rushed headlong into near certain death charging the beaches of Normandy.  They fought Nazis.  They did not need a "safe-space" to protect them from coarse language.  They turned out OK without such "protections".   Those "protections" are in quotes for a reason: they are doing more harm than good.  We are coddling a generation.  They need to be given more latitude to fail and to get their little snowflake asses kicked by life so they can develop some resilience. 

Disagree?  Start your own thread.

Agree?  Rant away in this REVERSE safe-space.

OK, I'm done for now.

-Lizard King-

J Boogie

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 11:30:12 AM »
I generally agree with this type of viewpoint (moreso when eloquently expressed by someone like Jonathan Haidt) but I must say the irony is quite rich in that you have sought to create your own echo chamber by commanding those who would disagree to refrain from posting your thread :)

Honestly though, I've had multiple comments removed from a local urbanism website I post at simply for politely and earnestly challenging left-of-center dogma. It's a shame they operate this way, because urbanism would really benefit from more buy in from non-progressives. My point is, here at MMM, while posters might chastise you, and you might get some occasional strikethroughs and warnings for really bad behavior, this place is pretty tolerant in comparison.


Kris

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2019, 11:37:06 AM »
Huh.

Well, without having seen the other post and knowing the context, I can't really say I have an opinion on it.

For me, particular words aren't so much the issue as ad hominem attacks. Which are against the forum rules, so... *shrug* yeah.

But I don't know if that's what you did. IDK. I mean, I have no issue with you ranting here, but it's hard to feel much about it at all since I don't really know the particulars of what you're ranting about.

Cool Friend

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2019, 11:41:32 AM »
Finally! A place for me to say @Financial.Velociraptor sounds like a mouth-breathing dipshit with a child's comprehension of what passive-aggression, free speech, or political correctness means.

GuitarStv

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2019, 11:49:47 AM »
The truth is the real victim of political correctness.  It is now no longer socially permissible to call a cracker a cracker.

I'm intrigued by this concept.  What truths are you concerned about that require offensive language to tell?

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2019, 11:52:46 AM »
Finally! A place for me to say @Financial.Velociraptor sounds like a mouth-breathing dipshit with a child's comprehension of what passive-aggression, free speech, or political correctness means.

:-)  Thanks, you made me smile.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 12:07:55 PM by Financial.Velociraptor »

Dabnasty

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2019, 12:01:06 PM »
Back in nursery school, I learned a little rhyme.  It started "sticks and stones".  I'd bet dollars to donuts that everyone here from an English speaking country learned the same rhyme.  Somehow, the lesson of that rhyme (which is intuitive to 4 year olds) is lost on the majority of American teens and even adults.  Seriously?!? WORDS hurt your feelings?  Have you no self-esteem?  Is your "locus of control" so far external to you that other people are fully in control of your attitude?

I'm just gonna stick to one portion of this rant at a time. The lesson is that you should do your best not to let someone else's words hurt you but a) only a perfect stoic (which doesn't exist) is 100% in control of their feelings and b) just because we are responsible for our own feelings doesn't mean we can't tell someone else that their words are harmful.

I suspect your issue isn't actually with the basic concept of political correctness but rather with where to draw the line. Would you agree?

EvenSteven

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2019, 12:01:16 PM »
Quote
But what about my free speech?

Have you been sanctioned by the government for using "triggering" words, or just asked politely to edit something? Seems your free speech is alive and well.

Quote
Disagree?  Start your own thread.

But what about my free speech!!!!??!!1!

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 12:02:07 PM »
Huh.

Well, without having seen the other post and knowing the context, I can't really say I have an opinion on it.

For me, particular words aren't so much the issue as ad hominem attacks. Which are against the forum rules, so... *shrug* yeah.

But I don't know if that's what you did. IDK. I mean, I have no issue with you ranting here, but it's hard to feel much about it at all since I don't really know the particulars of what you're ranting about.

I embellished my dislike for my former mode of employment as an accountant for an oilfield services major due to a disconnect in values.  Namely, I described their corporate objective as "raping the planet for fun and profit".  I thought the usage was colloquial rather than offensive.  But I once split a pitcher with a co-worker who called me a "pig-fucker" to my face about 6 hours after the fact.  I have thicker skin than most and bristle a little at people who can't roll with the punches.  Very concerned about the resiliency of a coddled generation...

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2019, 12:05:01 PM »
The truth is the real victim of political correctness.  It is now no longer socially permissible to call a cracker a cracker.

I'm intrigued by this concept.  What truths are you concerned about that require offensive language to tell?

Put your way, it doesn't exist.  But in my opinion, statements that were 50 years ago pretty tame are now being reclassified as "offensive".  I feel there is an element of the political correctness movement that would move to use social pressure to squelch any ideas they disagree with.  Does that seem plausible to you too?

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2019, 12:06:04 PM »

I suspect your issue isn't actually with the basic concept of political correctness but rather with where to draw the line. Would you agree?

YES.  Like I said, I complied with the request.  But where does this slippery slope end? 

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2019, 12:07:25 PM »


Have you been sanctioned by the government for using "triggering" words, or just asked politely to edit something? Seems your free speech is alive and well.

Point.


But what about my free speech!!!!??!!1!

Screw you commie!!! ;-p

One

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2019, 12:12:51 PM »
Huh.

Well, without having seen the other post and knowing the context, I can't really say I have an opinion on it.

For me, particular words aren't so much the issue as ad hominem attacks. Which are against the forum rules, so... *shrug* yeah.

But I don't know if that's what you did. IDK. I mean, I have no issue with you ranting here, but it's hard to feel much about it at all since I don't really know the particulars of what you're ranting about.

I embellished my dislike for my former mode of employment as an accountant for an oilfield services major due to a disconnect in values.  Namely, I described their corporate objective as "rapiĒng the planet for fun and profit".  I thought the usage was colloquial rather than offensive.  But I once split a pitcher with a co-worker who called me a "pig-fucker" to my face about 6 hours after the fact.  I have thicker skin than most and bristle a little at people who can't roll with the punches.  Very concerned about the resiliency of a coddled generation...

I guess I can see why youíd be kinda pissed.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2019, 12:13:14 PM »
...but I must say the irony is quite rich ...

No more ironic than the safe-space people insisting they need an echo chamber but those that disagree with their withdrawal from discourse shouldn't have one of their own.  If they can do it, so can I!

GuitarStv

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2019, 12:14:02 PM »
Huh.

Well, without having seen the other post and knowing the context, I can't really say I have an opinion on it.

For me, particular words aren't so much the issue as ad hominem attacks. Which are against the forum rules, so... *shrug* yeah.

But I don't know if that's what you did. IDK. I mean, I have no issue with you ranting here, but it's hard to feel much about it at all since I don't really know the particulars of what you're ranting about.

I embellished my dislike for my former mode of employment as an accountant for an oilfield services major due to a disconnect in values.  Namely, I described their corporate objective as "raping the planet for fun and profit".  I thought the usage was colloquial rather than offensive.  But I once split a pitcher with a co-worker who called me a "pig-fucker" to my face about 6 hours after the fact.  I have thicker skin than most and bristle a little at people who can't roll with the punches.  Very concerned about the resiliency of a coddled generation...

So, there's somewhat of a difference between talking with a co-worker who is calling you a 'pig-fucker' and using the term 'raping' jovially.  Depending on the stats you go with, one in five to one in six women are raped or victims of attempted rape.  That's pretty common.  I'm not completely aware of the stats on pig fucking but the odds would appear to be low that anyone you ever talk to (excepting David Cameron) has been victimized by pig fucking.

I used to pretty regularly use the words 'raped' or 'raping' in jest and common conversation.  At one point I did so in university next to a girl I knew pretty well.  She quietly got up and excused herself from the conversation.  Later on I found out that she had been assaulted and raped several weeks back.  Now, nobody asked me to stop using the word . . . but I felt terrible enough that I have tried to be careful not to use it since - even in a colloquial manner.  Because context matters a lot.  You don't always control, or know the situations of those around you, the least you can try to do in the name of civility is try to minimize things that can reasonably be viewed as hurtful to others.

In retrospect, I kinda wish that someone had told me to stop using the word before that happened.

Cool Friend

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2019, 12:14:44 PM »
Finally! A place for me to say @Financial.Velociraptor sounds like a mouth-breathing dipshit with a child's comprehension of what passive-aggression, free speech, or political correctness means.

:-)  Thanks, you made me smile.

:)

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2019, 12:15:18 PM »

I guess I can see why youíd be kinda pissed.

Not pissed.  My blood pressure didn't jump.  I'm just sort of annoyed and feel the obnoxious unintended consequences of political correctness (which is probably a good idea IN THEORY) are not being explored.  And are maybe even being squelched.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2019, 12:17:03 PM »

In retrospect, I kinda wish that someone had told me to stop using the word before that happened.

Like I said, I complied with the request.  I'll use "exploiting" here going forward, except in this thread.  No harm was meant.  I was just being my usual somewhat coarse self.  No more.

Kris

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2019, 12:17:09 PM »
Huh.

Well, without having seen the other post and knowing the context, I can't really say I have an opinion on it.

For me, particular words aren't so much the issue as ad hominem attacks. Which are against the forum rules, so... *shrug* yeah.

But I don't know if that's what you did. IDK. I mean, I have no issue with you ranting here, but it's hard to feel much about it at all since I don't really know the particulars of what you're ranting about.

I embellished my dislike for my former mode of employment as an accountant for an oilfield services major due to a disconnect in values.  Namely, I described their corporate objective as "raping the planet for fun and profit".  I thought the usage was colloquial rather than offensive.  But I once split a pitcher with a co-worker who called me a "pig-fucker" to my face about 6 hours after the fact.  I have thicker skin than most and bristle a little at people who can't roll with the punches.  Very concerned about the resiliency of a coddled generation...

Hmm.

Yeah, that's bullshit. You are/were using the word in one of its standard definitions: as a synonym of "despoil."

GuitarStv

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2019, 12:19:05 PM »
The truth is the real victim of political correctness.  It is now no longer socially permissible to call a cracker a cracker.

I'm intrigued by this concept.  What truths are you concerned about that require offensive language to tell?

Put your way, it doesn't exist.  But in my opinion, statements that were 50 years ago pretty tame are now being reclassified as "offensive".

50 years ago as a white dude it would be socially acceptable to slap your secretary on the ass when you walked into the office.  This has since been classified as 'offensive' too.  Because it is, and always was . . . even though folks got away with it.


I feel there is an element of the political correctness movement that would move to use social pressure to squelch any ideas they disagree with.  Does that seem plausible to you too?

It does seem plausible that someone could try to use political correctness to squelch any ideas that are disagreed with.  I certainly wouldn't condone or agree with that behaviour.  But that's why I asked my question . . . to see if there were any real concerns you had, of they were all purely hypothetical at this point.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 12:26:23 PM by GuitarStv »

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2019, 12:23:23 PM »
Hmm.

Yeah, that's bullshit. You are/were using the word in one of its standard definitions: as a synonym of "despoil."

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  GuitarStv has good points too.  I won't use that term here again outside of this thread.  But I would like to point out I have frequently seen that usage on Facebook memes and speeches by environmentalists.  It is common vernacular to my way of thinking.

Dabnasty

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2019, 12:28:50 PM »
Huh.

Well, without having seen the other post and knowing the context, I can't really say I have an opinion on it.

For me, particular words aren't so much the issue as ad hominem attacks. Which are against the forum rules, so... *shrug* yeah.

But I don't know if that's what you did. IDK. I mean, I have no issue with you ranting here, but it's hard to feel much about it at all since I don't really know the particulars of what you're ranting about.

I embellished my dislike for my former mode of employment as an accountant for an oilfield services major due to a disconnect in values.  Namely, I described their corporate objective as "raping the planet for fun and profit".  I thought the usage was colloquial rather than offensive.  But I once split a pitcher with a co-worker who called me a "pig-fucker" to my face about 6 hours after the fact.  I have thicker skin than most and bristle a little at people who can't roll with the punches.  Very concerned about the resiliency of a coddled generation...

Hmm.

Yeah, that's bullshit. You are/were using the word in one of its standard definitions: as a synonym of "despoil."

Which makes this one kinda tricky. I agree that there was nothing wrong with the usage. On the other hand, like GuitarStv said, this is a very sensitive topic where the very word can bring up emotions for someone who's been affected by rape whether it's used appropriately or not. Personally I avoid the word as long as there's another way to make the same point.

This one's actually mentioned in the Forum Rules as well:

Quote
5/11/15 Edit:
Rule #6 added: "Use good taste." There's nothing wrong with using good, solid, hyperbole and exaggeration in a metaphor, but we expect our members to refrain from tasteless comparisons that are completely out of proportion.  As an example, it not appropriate to compare rape, domestic assault, or genocide to unfair business practices that result in being overcharged for a service.

Your usage was more appropriate but I don't think the request to remove it is overly sensitive.

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2019, 12:33:22 PM »
This is the definition off dictionary.com

verb (used with object), raped, rap∑ing.
to commit the crime of rape on (a person).
to plunder (a place); despoil:
The logging operation raped a wide tract of forest without regard for the environmental impact of their harvesting practices.

GuitarStv

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2019, 12:42:18 PM »
I'm not arguing with the dictionary definition of the term.  It's usage was correct.  My argument is that there are other words you can use for the same effect, and no extra effort that are less likely to cause another person pain.  My inclination would therefore be to use them.

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2019, 12:49:19 PM »
I'm not arguing with the dictionary definition of the term.  It's usage was correct.  My argument is that there are other words you can use for the same effect, and no extra effort that are less likely to cause another person pain.  My inclination would therefore be to use them.

I think he used the best and most appropriate words to describe the situation.

Dabnasty

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2019, 12:55:01 PM »
The truth is the real victim of political correctness.  It is now no longer socially permissible to call a cracker a cracker.

I'm intrigued by this concept.  What truths are you concerned about that require offensive language to tell?

Put your way, it doesn't exist.  But in my opinion, statements that were 50 years ago pretty tame are now being reclassified as "offensive". 

I think you could find examples of this where that change makes sense and others where it doesn't.

As an example where it makes sense, from Wikipedia:

Quote
Idiot was formerly a legal and psychiatric category of profound intellectual disability in which a person's mental age is two years or less, and he or she cannot guard against common dangers. Along with terms like moron, imbecile, and cretin, the term is now archaic and offensive, and was replaced by the term "profound mental retardation".

Idiot was a technical term. It became an insult because it was used to equate developmentally normal people who did a stupid thing to those who were not developmentally normal which gave it a negative connotation and so it gradually began to hurt the feelings of those who were intellectually disabled. Now it's reached the next stage where it's not really offensive anymore it's just an insult. As far as I know no one thinks of the intellectually disable when they hear the word idiot.

It's a natural progression of language. Retard is going through this cycle as well. Perhaps someday that word will be a common insult completely removed from a disability as well.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2019, 12:59:32 PM »
I'm not arguing with the dictionary definition of the term.  It's usage was correct.  My argument is that there are other words you can use for the same effect, and no extra effort that are less likely to cause another person pain.  My inclination would therefore be to use them.

I changed it to "exploiting" before starting this thread.  Outside of this thread, will not use the term here again.  More interested in discussing whether political correctness is starting to go too far.

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2019, 01:00:23 PM »
Maybe we should run down to the library and start burning books. Isnít it starting to get a little ridiculous?

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2019, 01:14:59 PM »
Quote
Maybe we should run down to the library and start burning books. Isnít it starting to get a little ridiculous?

FVR used a word someone else found offensive. That person made a polite and private request to change that word. FVR didn't mean any offense, and politely agreed to change the word.

None of this seems in any way ridiculous. None of it resembles book burning. I am 100% unbothered by any of it. Does that make me a snowflake?

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2019, 01:21:37 PM »

FVR used a word someone else found offensive. That person made a polite and private request to change that word. FVR didn't mean any offense, and politely agreed to change the word.

None of this seems in any way ridiculous. None of it resembles book burning. I am 100% unbothered by any of it. Does that make me a snowflake?

If this thread is going to have winners and losers, I think you  may have just vaulted to the top of the leader board!

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2019, 01:23:25 PM »
I donít think FVR should conform to an unreasonable request. If everyone keeps giving in soon all of our speech will be regulated. Nobody will make comments for fear of saying something that may offend.

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2019, 01:24:47 PM »
I donít think FVR should conform to an unreasonable request. If everyone keeps giving in soon all of our speech will be regulated. Nobody will make comments for fear of saying something that may offend.

nah

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2019, 01:37:23 PM »
I'm not arguing with the dictionary definition of the term.  It's usage was correct.  My argument is that there are other words you can use for the same effect, and no extra effort that are less likely to cause another person pain.  My inclination would therefore be to use them.

I changed it to "exploiting" before starting this thread.  Outside of this thread, will not use the term here again.  More interested in discussing whether political correctness is starting to go too far.

I too sometimes ponder whether political correctness is starting to go too far. On the word in question, though, I feel:

2/3 that the shift to where using "rape" to mean "despoil something" is unacceptable because it trivializes the sexual meaning of rape is a good shift.

1/3 that using rape to say "despoil something - and this despoiling is so bad we should scorn the despoiler as we would scorn a rapist" is a legitimate usage that does not require trivializing rape, only lots of caring about the despoiled thing.

So on balance, I feel it's not too far in this case.

markbike528CBX

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2019, 01:42:18 PM »
PTF- I had one then forgot it.

Kris

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2019, 01:53:10 PM »
I'm not arguing with the dictionary definition of the term.  It's usage was correct.  My argument is that there are other words you can use for the same effect, and no extra effort that are less likely to cause another person pain.  My inclination would therefore be to use them.

I changed it to "exploiting" before starting this thread.  Outside of this thread, will not use the term here again.  More interested in discussing whether political correctness is starting to go too far.

I too sometimes ponder whether political correctness is starting to go too far. On the word in question, though, I feel:

2/3 that the shift to where using "rape" to mean "despoil something" is unacceptable because it trivializes the sexual meaning of rape is a good shift.

1/3 that using rape to say "despoil something - and this despoiling is so bad we should scorn the despoiler as we would scorn a rapist" is a legitimate usage that does not require trivializing rape, only lots of caring about the despoiled thing.

So on balance, I feel it's not too far in this case.

The word rape has been used to mean "to snatch, carry off, despoil" for longer than it has been used explicitly to mean to penetrate/violate a person forcibly.

Just a clarification. It's not a shift. It's the original meaning. 

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2019, 02:33:51 PM »
I donít think FVR should conform to an unreasonable request. If everyone keeps giving in soon all of our speech will be regulated. Nobody will make comments for fear of saying something that may offend.

We aren't there yet.  But I fear we have walked out onto some precariously thin ice.  If I can refer to ice as being "thin" without "fat-shaming" someone in the process...

Gondolin

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2019, 02:40:01 PM »
Quote
It's not a shift. It's the original meaning.

Personally I'm going back to 'rapine' for all my despoiling needs.

Laserjet3051

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2019, 02:55:48 PM »
By that same token, we should avoid using the words "kill," "murder," "snuff out," etc. in ANY context because someone in the company of our conversation may have been subjected to homicide (or a loved one)?  When my comedian friend gets off stage, I am no longer allowed to say "man you really killed it!" because someone in earshot could be triggered? This is a very slippery slope. Maybe we should all be mute so there is zero probability of unknowingly offending someone with a particular word or its usage?

I train both of my daughters to be resilient. Fuck the coddled, safe-space generation. Every chance I get in real life to deride this ever-growing PC bullshit culture, I do. Thanks for this space, I'll be back with plenty more.

Watchmaker

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2019, 02:56:50 PM »
I donít think FVR should conform to an unreasonable request. If everyone keeps giving in soon all of our speech will be regulated. Nobody will make comments for fear of saying something that may offend.

We aren't there yet.  But I fear we have walked out onto some precariously thin ice.  If I can refer to ice as being "thin" without "fat-shaming" someone in the process...

For what it's worth, I think what you said in this example would be considered a reasonable use by most people at this point in time. Five years from now, or ten, or twenty, though, I bet it wouldn't be. Because maybe we'll (as a society) decide that the same word shouldn't be used to mean "plunder" or to mean "sexually assault". That we'd be better off with two different words. What's so wrong with adjusting the use of language to better fit our morals?

I'm sure I've used the word rape jokingly, probably in the context of beating someone at a video game when I was a teenager. I don't do that any more. There's a lot of words I don't use anymore, or use differently. What's so bad about that? I can still communicate. In fact, I communicate better now that I consider my words more carefully.

Laserjet3051

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2019, 03:03:28 PM »
I donít think FVR should conform to an unreasonable request. If everyone keeps giving in soon all of our speech will be regulated. Nobody will make comments for fear of saying something that may offend.

We aren't there yet.  But I fear we have walked out onto some precariously thin ice.  If I can refer to ice as being "thin" without "fat-shaming" someone in the process...

Whats wrong with fat shaming? I was under the presumption that current medical directives discourage obesity as well as behaviors promoting said phenotype?

Watchmaker

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2019, 03:06:27 PM »
By that same token, we should avoid using the words "kill," "murder," "snuff out," etc. in ANY context because someone in the company of our conversation may have been subjected to homicide (or a loved one)?  When my comedian friend gets off stage, I am no longer allowed to say "man you really killed it!" because someone in earshot could be triggered? This is a very slippery slope. Maybe we should all be mute so there is zero probability of unknowingly offending someone with a particular word or its usage?

Murder is quite rare (luckily), so relatively few people have been directly affected by a murder (and you'll never get a chance to offend a murder victim). Sexual assault is, sadly, much more common. In any decent sized crowd, there is a high likelihood of there being a sexual assault survivor.
 
A thought experiment: Imagine my sister was murdered. We go out for a game of tennis; my first fun activity since it happened. We beat our opponents easily. Are you going to say to me "We murdered them!"? Probably not, because you'd understand that could be upsetting. That's an extreme case, but my point is there are circumstances where pretty much everyone agrees you should censor yourself. We just all draw the line in different places.

Dabnasty

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2019, 03:11:16 PM »
By that same token, we should avoid using the words "kill," "murder," "snuff out," etc. in ANY context because someone in the company of our conversation may have been subjected to homicide (or a loved one)?  When my comedian friend gets off stage, I am no longer allowed to say "man you really killed it!" because someone in earshot could be triggered? This is a very slippery slope. Maybe we should all be mute so there is zero probability of unknowingly offending someone with a particular word or its usage?

Murder is quite rare (luckily), so relatively few people have been directly affected by a murder (and you'll never get a chance to offend a murder victim). Sexual assault is, sadly, much more common. In any decent sized crowd, there is a high likelihood of there being a sexual assault survivor.
 
A thought experiment: Imagine my sister was murdered. We go out for a game of tennis; my first fun activity since it happened. We beat our opponents easily. Are you going to say to me "We murdered them!"? Probably not, because you'd understand that could be upsetting. That's an extreme case, but my point is there are circumstances where pretty much everyone agrees you should censor yourself. We just all draw the line in different places.

I would add to this that there is a stigma around being raped that does not exist with murder. I would feel no shame in telling someone that someone I knew was murdered. I doubt I would tell anyone about being raped. People tend to view rape victims differently even when they don't mean to do so.

Therefore, not only is it more likely that listeners/readers have experienced rape or know someone who has but it's also more likely that you don't know who they are.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 03:13:32 PM by Dabnasty »

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2019, 03:14:10 PM »
This is an interesting thread and I like that the particular example being discussed is more in the gray area and not yet another example of someone complaining after being called out for acting like a jerk. I feel like many of the complaints about ďpolitical correctnessĒ are people who want to act like assholes and not suffer the consequences of those actions.

The perspective I choose to take is how things were framed for me at my last employer. There is your intent on how you behave/are perceived and then there is perception. If there is a gap there then most people will want to know. If my intent is to be kind and in fact I am coming across as a jerk, then my intent is nice, but the reality is what the person on the other side of the interaction is experiencing.

What you do with that is your own choice. You may decide that it is just one individual expressing an invalid concern and carry on. You may decide that many people are experiencing the same thing and that you donít really intend to be seen as a jerk by a bunch of people, and change your behavior.

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2019, 03:15:07 PM »
I donít think FVR should conform to an unreasonable request. If everyone keeps giving in soon all of our speech will be regulated. Nobody will make comments for fear of saying something that may offend.

We aren't there yet.  But I fear we have walked out onto some precariously thin ice.  If I can refer to ice as being "thin" without "fat-shaming" someone in the process...

Whats wrong with fat shaming? I was under the presumption that current medical directives discourage obesity as well as behaviors promoting said phenotype?
Well, it is mean for one. And ineffective for another.

Watchmaker

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2019, 03:18:19 PM »
Whats wrong with fat shaming?

The shaming part.

ixtap

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2019, 03:19:37 PM »
I donít think FVR should conform to an unreasonable request. If everyone keeps giving in soon all of our speech will be regulated. Nobody will make comments for fear of saying something that may offend.

We aren't there yet.  But I fear we have walked out onto some precariously thin ice.  If I can refer to ice as being "thin" without "fat-shaming" someone in the process...

Whats wrong with fat shaming? I was under the presumption that current medical directives discourage obesity as well as behaviors promoting said phenotype?

Would you ridicule someone with other medical issues? In this case, it is particularly unhelpful, since most people get obese because they use food emotionally, so shame and isolation are likely to cause them to turn to eating

Laserjet3051

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2019, 03:44:33 PM »
Perhaps the term "fat-shaming" is not the most appropriate term to express my position. I would amend my comment to state that discouraging behaviors associated with obesity should be applauded/encouraged and that we should not encourage such behaviors nor we should we encourage the phenotype. I still love my morbidly obese family members, but I will never encourage the behaviors that have led them to such a place and will carefully, and in limited fashion, express my disapproval of their dangerous medical state.

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2019, 04:06:52 PM »
Iím not fat (though pregnant so I certainly feel that way), but I know Iíve read many times that fat people know they are fat. They know that society judges them for it, that their health and career and romantic opportunities are limited, that their choices for where to go and what to do are limited. You pointing out the obvious isnít helping anything but making someone feel worse about themself.

You donít need to go far in these very forums to read experiences of people who strictly control diet and religiously exercise and still gain weight and are overweight. There are a myriad of complicated health issues that can lead to that. Iím on a drug right now which has a side effect of double chin and belly fat retention.

I also think it is unfair to implicitly imply that people just need to be told they are wrong and be told what to do and that will be enough to solve an issue that has a complex systematic origin. We have to recognize that things like subsidizing the farming of things like grains and corn resulting in super cheap food being crazy unhealthy (refined grains, corn syrup added to everything), not subsidizing healthy foods like fruits and vegetables and nuts, a history of promoting a car-centered culture and dismantling public transportation, on and on and on.... these things have inpact. It isnít fair to ignore the system that is set up to make the easiest and cheapest options be unhealthy and then blame the individual for lack of self control.

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2019, 04:22:32 PM »
When do I get to lose my shit over you being an enormously excessively sensitive snowflake PUSSY?!? 
-Lizard King-

You had me right up until you used the term PUSSY.   You are welcome to disagree with everything I say and believe....attack ideas, not people.
And I'm not offended by what you say, I will just discount everything you have to say when you resort to name calling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5481_DVDd8c

RetiredAt63

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Re: "Trigger" words
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2019, 04:31:54 PM »
Language changes.  I still miss "gay" as in the song from South Pacific (A Wonderful Guy - "I'm as trite and as gay as a daisy in May,").  Do I still use it in that sense? No.
"Fag" - In pack up your troubles in your old kit bag there is the line "While you've a lucifer to light your fag" - "fag" has changed meaning (at least on this side of the Atlantic) and I think is now totally out for use for anything.

So all of you moaning about changes in English usage, grow up and accept that language changes.  If I can adapt at my age (this is your grandmother giving you the stink eye) you youngsters can surely manage.  And if you aren't sure, just think if Miss Manners would approve of your vocabulary choices.