Author Topic: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k  (Read 3312 times)

Fresh Bread

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Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« on: February 13, 2018, 02:57:08 PM »
Is Pat on here?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-14/why-i-decided-to-skip-home-ownership-to-retire-at-35/9378412

A young Australian mustachian. The ABC website does not have a comments field so we can't hear from the naysayers, boo.

ozbeach

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 04:46:24 PM »
As I was reading this article this morning I thought this guy must be a mustachian, and there, right at the end of the article, was a quote from Pete Adeney - bingo!

Fresh Bread

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 06:27:39 PM »
The comments are kicking off on the ABC Facebook page :)

There's a lot of people that think that when the stock market crashes you lose everything, and that it doesn't keep up with inflation. Plus there's a comment from someone who says they spend $20k on food a year (and then without irony says that other people just aren't including all that they spend on eating out and takeaways).

Glad to see mustachians piping up with sources to back up the maths.

limeandpepper

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 11:52:21 PM »
So obviously he reads the MMM blog but may not hang out at the forums. Maybe the Sydneysiders will know of him?

Seems like there is a reasonable amount of sensible comments on the ABC Facebook post to balance out the silly ones.

The only thing that may be of concern is this quote from the article:

Quote
The inhuman waking hours and long days filled with hours of overtime has slowly eroded the feelings of satisfaction and accomplishment I get from my work as an engineer.

More importantly, I feel that by working so much, I'm missing out on the rest of my life.

Sounds like he could do with a bit of downshifting now!

HappierAtHome

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 12:31:29 AM »
I shared that article on FB this morning... And my sister said she doesn't understand why anyone wants to retire at 35 :-/ le sigh.

Little Aussie Battler

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 02:35:28 AM »
He's currently 29 (or 30, there seemed to be conflicting info), and according to his blog it's a 10-12 year plan.

Doesn't that mean that he's aiming to generate $40k p.a. of passive income by the age of 39-42?

Still a great story, and I wish we would see more of these and less of the "my grandma gave me $100k in 2002 and between that and massive leverage from the banks I'm now a property mogul. Why aren't you?" articles.


happy

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 03:06:03 AM »
Just came onto Mustachianism around the web to post this link, but looks like I am late to the party.  I thought it was a nice article.

happy

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 03:06:35 AM »
PS Anyone else check out his blog yet?

Rowellen

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2018, 03:23:26 AM »
I shared that article on FB this morning... And my sister said she doesn't understand why anyone wants to retire at 35 :-/ le sigh.

So we can play bowls and putter around on our mobility scooters of course. And yell at the kids to get off our lawn. So much fun to be had

/s

marty998

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2018, 03:49:01 AM »
I find it slightly funny that this article was on all of our Facebook feeds (mine included).

Obviously big brother has figured out our collective interests :)

Fresh Bread

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2018, 03:53:00 AM »
I find it slightly funny that this article was on all of our Facebook feeds (mine included).

Obviously big brother has figured out our collective interests :)

Actually it wasn't on mine! I went googling for some comments on it because I can't help myself.

happy

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2018, 05:03:09 AM »
Not on mine either, but I use it very little. I don't think I have a Facebook feed.

BrakeForTurtles

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2018, 06:50:07 AM »
A friend sent this to me this morning! Good on him, it's pretty crazy what $1M can buy when you frame it as Sydney property or freedom. I guess even if he was on here he might not claim it as it outs a lot of personal info.

I also was eager to read the comments and a little saddened there weren't any. I will stroll on over to the Facebook page!

mustachepungoeshere

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Gronnie

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 09:04:19 PM »
The response article does make a lot of good points, but it's not going to convince me to remain a worker bee.

Fresh Bread

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 09:54:59 PM »
I think some of the points in the response are a bit flawed.

For example, volunteer work has value, what if he was a dentist and toured  remote communities that couldn't afford treatment? That's a high value example, but there's lots of other vollie jobs that might benefit all of us - like he might devote himself to clearing plastic so fish don't eat it.

Second, if a woman retired early so she can raise her kids, there wouldn't be the same stigma, even if she didn't go back to work. Should SAHM's not get degrees?

Third, I doubt he'd be eligible for any age pension.

Fourth, I'll be retaining private health cover in retirement. Don't know about Pat.

Fifth - $40k a year is what some people earn. Are low earners taking the piss too? And you do pay tax on $40k, I don't think there's the implication that him and his SO would both live on that and claim $36k threshold is there?

I guess there is a scenario where Pat goes to live in Thailand and returns when he's 65 for the free healthcare etc. That might align with the issues raised & I think that is a little bit out of order. However I migrated in my 20s to here from the country that raised and educated me for free. So swings and roundabouts! I don't know what the tax rules are when you migrate from here - wouldn't he still be paying tax to Australia if overseas? I used to pay tax to the UK on income from assets held there.



actionjackson

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 11:53:12 PM »
The ABC response is the biggest wind up.

As per my comment on this over on reddit - Perhaps the article writer could do a write up on the inefficiencies of the Not for Profit sector, and how it's a safe-haven for incompetent and overpaid managers. Maybe when Pat Seyrak retires at 35 he can go and work as a consultant for their not-for-profit and use his skills for thriftiness to drive down their administrative costs. The writer should welcome that given his own uber-benevolent motivations.

Even better, if the writer cares that much for NFP causes, perhaps he can take the low cost lifestyle option and donate all his savings instead of investing them for early retirement.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 12:06:18 AM by actionjackson »

marty998

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2018, 12:50:38 AM »
The writer assumes one's contribution to society is paying income taxes... neglecting that Pat will continue to pay a raft of state taxes, including GST.

The government has its hands in many of your pockets, not just one.

Fresh Bread

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2018, 02:08:54 AM »
The writer assumes one's contribution to society is paying income taxes... neglecting that Pat will continue to pay a raft of state taxes, including GST.

The government has its hands in many of your pockets, not just one.

Good point, but only if he stays in Australia.

actionjackson

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2018, 03:09:05 AM »
The writer assumes one's contribution to society is paying income taxes... neglecting that Pat will continue to pay a raft of state taxes, including GST.

The government has its hands in many of your pockets, not just one.

Good point, but only if he stays in Australia.

If he exited Australia and took his money off the market he'd incur a hefty CGT payment I'm sure. That'd be a fair 'exit price'. I would think.

If he left but kept his assets in Australia, there is an argument that investing in Australian companies has a social externality. He would also have to pay Australian tax unless he went to a location with a reciprocal tax agreement - not sure where the money ends up in the latter. But I don't think it's as simple as he can just bail on Australia.

Fresh Bread

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2018, 03:14:29 AM »
Yeah I've been assuming his assets would always stay here, hence the income tax. But Marty's saying he'd pay GST - not if he leaves tho.

marty998

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2018, 03:16:50 AM »
The writer assumes one's contribution to society is paying income taxes... neglecting that Pat will continue to pay a raft of state taxes, including GST.

The government has its hands in many of your pockets, not just one.

Good point, but only if he stays in Australia.

I did also think of Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged. I've never actually read the book, but the premise of "what if all the lifters* simply stopped producing seemed an interesting parallel here.

To be little bit snarky, why should the young have to work to pay taxes to fund $100 billion of health and aged pensions annually for asset rich old people?

* I love quoting this term from our ex-Tresurer Joe Hockey. Works on so many levels.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 03:22:20 AM by marty998 »

HappierAtHome

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2018, 03:28:40 AM »
The writer assumes one's contribution to society is paying income taxes... neglecting that Pat will continue to pay a raft of state taxes, including GST.

The government has its hands in many of your pockets, not just one.

Good point, but only if he stays in Australia.

But if he leaves, he's not using the healthcare or education systems, etc... So doesn't need to keep "paying his way" via income tax.

marty998

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2018, 03:40:08 AM »
The writer assumes one's contribution to society is paying income taxes... neglecting that Pat will continue to pay a raft of state taxes, including GST.

The government has its hands in many of your pockets, not just one.

Good point, but only if he stays in Australia.

But if he leaves, he's not using the healthcare or education systems, etc... So doesn't need to keep "paying his way" via income tax.

He'll pay airport departure taxes on the way out :)

Fresh Bread

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2018, 03:42:15 AM »
The writer assumes one's contribution to society is paying income taxes... neglecting that Pat will continue to pay a raft of state taxes, including GST.

The government has its hands in many of your pockets, not just one.

Good point, but only if he stays in Australia.

But if he leaves, he's not using the healthcare or education systems, etc... So doesn't need to keep "paying his way" via income tax.

The response article author was complaining that he'd had education/ healthcare through childhood and then would come back in old age and again tap in, maybe access a small age pension. I think for the majority, those are the times that you are benefitting most from the state.

krustyburger

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2018, 03:45:25 AM »

To be little bit snarky, why should the young have to work to pay taxes to fund $100 billion of health and aged pensions annually for asset rich old people?


Yeah, it's a depressingly large amount of money

That reply article was ridiculous, I'm disappointed with the abc

HappierAtHome

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2018, 04:04:57 AM »
The writer assumes one's contribution to society is paying income taxes... neglecting that Pat will continue to pay a raft of state taxes, including GST.

The government has its hands in many of your pockets, not just one.

Good point, but only if he stays in Australia.

But if he leaves, he's not using the healthcare or education systems, etc... So doesn't need to keep "paying his way" via income tax.

The response article author was complaining that he'd had education/ healthcare through childhood and then would come back in old age and again tap in, maybe access a small age pension. I think for the majority, those are the times that you are benefitting most from the state.

Wouldn't paying income tax as a high earner for 10 - 20 years cover those costs? For the past almost-decade my household has paid more than the median household income in income tax each year (note: I am happy to pay taxes and do not think Australian taxes are too high. My problem is only with the maths of the "you can't retire until you've paid your way in income tax" argument). I have benefited from public education, healthcare and even more traditional welfare, but I'd like to believe paying hundreds of thousands in income tax over the course of my career would be enough to pay my way.

HappierAtHome

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2018, 04:21:00 AM »
PS Anyone else check out his blog yet?

I have read a few of the more recent articles today. They're pretty decent, obviously not much that's new to people here.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2018, 04:41:32 AM »

To be little bit snarky, why should the young have to work to pay taxes to fund $100 billion of health and aged pensions annually for asset rich old people?


Yeah, it's a depressingly large amount of money

That reply article was ridiculous, I'm disappointed with the abc

The ABC that removed from its website Emma Alberici's piece on corporate tax cuts after pressure from the PM? They've had a great week.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/16/abc-removes-corporate-tax-cut-analysis-after-complaints-from-malcolm-turnbull

BrakeForTurtles

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2018, 06:26:06 AM »
I too think that the reply article is BS, but it's interesting to see the difference between the response in Australia vs the US. Not that the ABC's response is necessarily representative of the whole country, but note the first thing they went for is: "Income tax funds society and everyone benefits". Whereas a typical response in the US is: "If everyone was frugal the economy would collapse because no one would be buying crap!!!". At least the ABC is thinking about social programs and not precious capitalism.

actionjackson

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2018, 04:38:01 PM »
Yeah I've been assuming his assets would always stay here, hence the income tax. But Marty's saying he'd pay GST - not if he leaves tho.

Yeah. Unless he kept his assets in a trust that was domiciled in Australia, he would incur a CGT event upon becoming a non-resident for tax purposes.

actionjackson

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2018, 04:42:51 PM »
The writer assumes one's contribution to society is paying income taxes... neglecting that Pat will continue to pay a raft of state taxes, including GST.

The government has its hands in many of your pockets, not just one.

Good point, but only if he stays in Australia.

But if he leaves, he's not using the healthcare or education systems, etc... So doesn't need to keep "paying his way" via income tax.

The response article author was complaining that he'd had education/ healthcare through childhood and then would come back in old age and again tap in, maybe access a small age pension. I think for the majority, those are the times that you are benefitting most from the state.

Wouldn't paying income tax as a high earner for 10 - 20 years cover those costs? For the past almost-decade my household has paid more than the median household income in income tax each year (note: I am happy to pay taxes and do not think Australian taxes are too high. My problem is only with the maths of the "you can't retire until you've paid your way in income tax" argument). I have benefited from public education, healthcare and even more traditional welfare, but I'd like to believe paying hundreds of thousands in income tax over the course of my career would be enough to pay my way.

Exactly. Our household pays that much tax - in 10 years we'll probably pay more income tax than most Australian's pay in their lifetimes.

Not to mention, if we FIRE, our intention is to raise our children and educate them - a worthy cause with a societal benefit - and we'll probably contribute a lot to society in ways that can't be measured in terms of the amount of tax we pay.

limeandpepper

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2018, 04:50:13 PM »
My reaction to the ABC article is basically... meh, it's his money and if he wants to retire with it, he can. He has no obligation to work for the benefit of society. I feel the same about most things really, e.g. extravagant celebrity weddings, sure I might do things differently but if they have more than enough money to spend as they see fit I'm certainly not going to tell them they should have donated to charity instead. I reserve my judgement for people who are terrible with money and create questionable GoFundMes. :p

actionjackson

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2018, 08:35:59 PM »
and create questionable GoFundMes. :p

Ha! Yeah, those are terrible. I've seen a few whoppers. One where a girl on my facebook missed her international flight to her holiday because she slept in, and she put out a gofundme to pay for a new flight.

mspym

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2018, 11:43:24 PM »
Hmm at some point I need to work out the tax implications of moving out of Oz back to NZ. Because I am paying a boatload in taxes each year (and happy to do so) but don't want to have to sell up and take another hit when my preference is to leave my money here.

Add that to my Shit I got to Get Sorted list.

actionjackson

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2018, 05:13:48 PM »
Yeah, not sure on NZ laws and would think that with our close economic ties, would maybe be different. I relocated from the USA back to Australia last year.

Bit of details on it here - https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/International-issues/Changing-residency/

happy

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Re: Young aussie mustachian aims to retire by 35yrs on $40k
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2018, 03:59:14 AM »
and create questionable GoFundMes. :p

Ha! Yeah, those are terrible. I've seen a few whoppers. One where a girl on my facebook missed her international flight to her holiday because she slept in, and she put out a gofundme to pay for a new flight.

I met a single mum whose ex died...so she put out a gofundme for her son. I read it the day after she'd told me they'd made a killing out of renovating and selling their inner city (Sydney) house and 80% was invested in the son's name. /Facepalm.