What riding my bicycle taught me about white privilege

[franklin w. dixon]

When a dude swings into a thread about white privilege like a reckon ball...

I reckon you meant "wrecking ball."

No, I meant, as in, "I'm going to smash into this conversation like the Kool-Aid man and holler 'As a white dude I reckon that there's no such thing as white privilege. Case closed!'"

[legacyoneup]

Just b/c some people achieve success despite being poor or a minority or because "everyone has some cross to bear" shouldn't mean we should do nothing about injustice! 

I'm paraphrasing:  "If you're white and don't acknowledge you are privileged, you are an asshole" - Louis CK

"some people achieve success" - I see a LOT of non-whites with successful corporate careers. There are literally more non-whites than whites at my previous office.

[Gin1984]

Just b/c some people achieve success despite being poor or a minority or because "everyone has some cross to bear" shouldn't mean we should do nothing about injustice! 

I'm paraphrasing:  "If you're white and don't acknowledge you are privileged, you are an asshole" - Louis CK

"some people achieve success" - I see a LOT of non-whites with successful corporate careers. There are literally more non-whites than whites at my previous office.

But what are the stats in your field for minorities and women, in the higher ranking jobs?  Not just being there, but being on top.  I literally know no field in which the top echelons have equality.

[legacyoneup]

Just b/c some people achieve success despite being poor or a minority or because "everyone has some cross to bear" shouldn't mean we should do nothing about injustice! 

I'm paraphrasing:  "If you're white and don't acknowledge you are privileged, you are an asshole" - Louis CK

"some people achieve success" - I see a LOT of non-whites with successful corporate careers. There are literally more non-whites than whites at my previous office.

But what are the stats in your field for minorities and women, in the higher ranking jobs?  Not just being there, but being on top.  I literally know no field in which the top echelons have equality.

I had to reply.
1. At my previous organisation, the CEO is a woman!
2. My boss was a WM, the director was a woman of color. Awesome dame.. got along great with her! Woot !!

I've never had an issue with working / reporting to a woman. You see..... my sister is the star performer in the family. She aced in school and college and has been a good example of what women can achieve. In fact, in my school and college, it was generally the girls that got the top ranks!

[Gin1984]

Just b/c some people achieve success despite being poor or a minority or because "everyone has some cross to bear" shouldn't mean we should do nothing about injustice! 

I'm paraphrasing:  "If you're white and don't acknowledge you are privileged, you are an asshole" - Louis CK

"some people achieve success" - I see a LOT of non-whites with successful corporate careers. There are literally more non-whites than whites at my previous office.

But what are the stats in your field for minorities and women, in the higher ranking jobs?  Not just being there, but being on top.  I literally know no field in which the top echelons have equality.

I had to reply.
1. At my previous organisation, the CEO is a woman!
2. My boss was a WM, the director was a woman of color. Awesome dame.. got along great with her! Woot !!

I've never had an issue with working / reporting to a woman. You see..... my sister is the star performer in the family. She aced in school and college and has been a good example of what women can achieve. In fact, in my school and college, it was generally the girls that got the top ranks!

I did not say your organization, I said your field.  What are the statistic of high ranking jobs, in regards to gender and race.

[legacyoneup]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

[Gin1984]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

You keep trying to use anecdotes, instead of just looking at/showing the data, I wonder why that is.  Unless your two offices compose the entire range of your field, the anecdote really does not matter.  Also, even if the company hires 50% each gender, the positions of power are what we are discussing.  You have two people, the CEO and the janitor, which has more influence?   Why not just say what field you are in and I can look.

[legacyoneup]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

You keep trying to use anecdotes, instead of just looking at/showing the data, I wonder why that is.  Unless your two offices compose the entire range of your field, the anecdote really does not matter.  Also, even if the company hires 50% each gender, the positions of power are what we are discussing.  You have two people, the CEO and the janitor, which has more influence?   Why not just say what field you are in and I can look.

I'm a software developer. Not sure of the gender / race breakup and frankly don't care about that. I just want colleagues with good skill sets... irrespective of gender / race / sexual orientation.

[Gin1984]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

You keep trying to use anecdotes, instead of just looking at/showing the data, I wonder why that is.  Unless your two offices compose the entire range of your field, the anecdote really does not matter.  Also, even if the company hires 50% each gender, the positions of power are what we are discussing.  You have two people, the CEO and the janitor, which has more influence?   Why not just say what field you are in and I can look.

I'm a software developer. Not sure of the gender / race breakup and frankly don't care about that. I just want colleagues with good skill sets... irrespective of gender / race / sexual orientation.

LOL, I am sure you do, because you not in the group that has to fight to try to get into it.  One quick search show how lopsided your field is and how much it is in your favor.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/

[franklin w. dixon]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

You keep trying to use anecdotes, instead of just looking at/showing the data, I wonder why that is.  Unless your two offices compose the entire range of your field, the anecdote really does not matter.  Also, even if the company hires 50% each gender, the positions of power are what we are discussing.  You have two people, the CEO and the janitor, which has more influence?   Why not just say what field you are in and I can look.

I'm a software developer. Not sure of the gender / race breakup and frankly don't care about that. I just want colleagues with good skill sets... irrespective of gender / race / sexual orientation.

LOL, I am sure you do, because you not in the group that has to fight to try to get into it.  One quick search show how lopsided your field is and how much it is in your favor.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/

Isn't it "funny" how your engineers, IT duders, hard science bros etc. who are typically such fans of evidence and facts only and pfooey get that unscientific emotional stuff outta here suddenly, when confronted with something ideologically unpalatable, feel like "guhhh I knew a woman one time! So there!" is an interesting, constructive, or useful contribution? I wonder what's up with that!

[daverobev]

The original article didn't help me much. I used to cycle every day through a busy town and felt I had the right to be on the road, right with the cars.

I'm struggling with this. Was told last weekend that I was pretty much the definition of unknowing white privilege. But I'm from the UK... And the 'racism' that is mostly there is focussed at other whites, Eastern Europeans.

So white privilege is just the opposite of black disadvantage? It's not-discrimination? I guess I can see that.

I read through the Knapsack essay, most of the items I haven't seen in my life but a few made sense. Many of them I could see you could replace with fat-obese vs thin-normal privilege. Same thing?

I really dislike how Americans talk about black people. "Of colour"... "African American". That language in itself is divisive, I'd say.

Struggling. My first gf was British... her ancestry is Indian. But she's as British as I am.

Unlike American black people, though, or rather poor American black people living in a trailer park... her dad was a doctor.

Human is human. All equal. Do only people with privilege say that? The line about pull "them" up so they can be more like "us" was uncomfortable in that.. I don't want "them" to lose their culture, whatever, just be treated the same. But there has to be integration into society, right? Hard enough going from the UK to Canada...

Is there 'consumer privilege' in the west? Or 'access to credit and the usual banking systems'? I guess there is... rich people can get richer. Capitalism privilege.

Hrm. Guaranteed Minimum Income does sound like a solution to many problems...

[legacyoneup]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

You keep trying to use anecdotes, instead of just looking at/showing the data, I wonder why that is.  Unless your two offices compose the entire range of your field, the anecdote really does not matter.  Also, even if the company hires 50% each gender, the positions of power are what we are discussing.  You have two people, the CEO and the janitor, which has more influence?   Why not just say what field you are in and I can look.

I'm a software developer. Not sure of the gender / race breakup and frankly don't care about that. I just want colleagues with good skill sets... irrespective of gender / race / sexual orientation.

LOL, I am sure you do, because you not in the group that has to fight to try to get into it.  One quick search show how lopsided your field is and how much it is in your favor.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/

What is the ratio of men to women in computer science classrooms in the US? Is that an equal split? If not, that's probably the cause of the imbalance.

As I said earlier, its all about academics / grades.

[legacyoneup]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

You keep trying to use anecdotes, instead of just looking at/showing the data, I wonder why that is.  Unless your two offices compose the entire range of your field, the anecdote really does not matter.  Also, even if the company hires 50% each gender, the positions of power are what we are discussing.  You have two people, the CEO and the janitor, which has more influence?   Why not just say what field you are in and I can look.

I'm a software developer. Not sure of the gender / race breakup and frankly don't care about that. I just want colleagues with good skill sets... irrespective of gender / race / sexual orientation.

LOL, I am sure you do, because you not in the group that has to fight to try to get into it.  One quick search show how lopsided your field is and how much it is in your favor.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/

What is the ratio of men to women in computer science classrooms in the US? Is that an equal split? If not, that's probably the cause of the imbalance.

As I said earlier, its all about academics / grades.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorikozlowski/2012/03/22/women-in-tech-female-developers-by-the-numbers/

"One general hypothesis for the imbalance is schooling — because female college students pursue fewer computer science majors and tech-related fields, that background education leads to fewer tech-oriented jobs later."

You know what, the women here had a golden opportunity .. and they didn't take it. There are 178 million child laborers in the third world who will never get the chance that these women as students in the first world got.

[franklin w. dixon]

What is the ratio of men to women in computer science classrooms in the US? Is that an equal split? If not, that's probably the cause of the imbalance.

As I said earlier, its all about academics / grades.

Computer science is a uniquely hostile field for women and has been for decades. Women eagerly pursue fields which aren't exceptionally hateful against them; computer science is a unique cesspit which is why it has been mired in 1950s levels of female participation for three decades (not to mention 1950s levels of misogyny and hostility by its overwhelmingly male workforce).

[mm1970]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

You keep trying to use anecdotes, instead of just looking at/showing the data, I wonder why that is.  Unless your two offices compose the entire range of your field, the anecdote really does not matter.  Also, even if the company hires 50% each gender, the positions of power are what we are discussing.  You have two people, the CEO and the janitor, which has more influence?   Why not just say what field you are in and I can look.

I'm a software developer. Not sure of the gender / race breakup and frankly don't care about that. I just want colleagues with good skill sets... irrespective of gender / race / sexual orientation.

LOL, I am sure you do, because you not in the group that has to fight to try to get into it.  One quick search show how lopsided your field is and how much it is in your favor.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/

What is the ratio of men to women in computer science classrooms in the US? Is that an equal split? If not, that's probably the cause of the imbalance.

As I said earlier, its all about academics / grades.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorikozlowski/2012/03/22/women-in-tech-female-developers-by-the-numbers/

"One general hypothesis for the imbalance is schooling — because female college students pursue fewer computer science majors and tech-related fields, that background education leads to fewer tech-oriented jobs later."

You know what, the women here had a golden opportunity .. and they didn't take it. There are 178 million child laborers in the third world who will never get the chance that these women as students in the first world got.

This is interesting:

http://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2014/june/june5_womenincomputerscience.html

Sadly, I'm not sure it's going to matter.   Unfortunately, women drop out of tech in DROVES because most jobs are generally unfriendly to women, sometimes outwardly so (sometimes it's just insidious).

My graduating class in 1992 was almost 50% women.  What percentage of engineers in my company are women?  We have 6, out of almost 100.  Three of them are under 27.

[franklin w. dixon]

This is interesting:

http://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2014/june/june5_womenincomputerscience.html

Sadly, I'm not sure it's going to matter.   Unfortunately, women drop out of tech in DROVES because most jobs are generally unfriendly to women, sometimes outwardly so (sometimes it's just insidious).

My graduating class in 1992 was almost 50% women.  What percentage of engineers in my company are women?  We have 6, out of almost 100.  Three of them are under 27.

Yep. Even if you can slog through undergrad do you really want to spend the next 40 years in a swamp of disgusting hateful misogynists posting about #gamergate? It's amazing to me how resilient the small percentage of women in computer science must be to endure that.

[legacyoneup]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

You keep trying to use anecdotes, instead of just looking at/showing the data, I wonder why that is.  Unless your two offices compose the entire range of your field, the anecdote really does not matter.  Also, even if the company hires 50% each gender, the positions of power are what we are discussing.  You have two people, the CEO and the janitor, which has more influence?   Why not just say what field you are in and I can look.

I'm a software developer. Not sure of the gender / race breakup and frankly don't care about that. I just want colleagues with good skill sets... irrespective of gender / race / sexual orientation.

LOL, I am sure you do, because you not in the group that has to fight to try to get into it.  One quick search show how lopsided your field is and how much it is in your favor.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/

What is the ratio of men to women in computer science classrooms in the US? Is that an equal split? If not, that's probably the cause of the imbalance.

As I said earlier, its all about academics / grades.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorikozlowski/2012/03/22/women-in-tech-female-developers-by-the-numbers/

"One general hypothesis for the imbalance is schooling — because female college students pursue fewer computer science majors and tech-related fields, that background education leads to fewer tech-oriented jobs later."

You know what, the women here had a golden opportunity .. and they didn't take it. There are 178 million child laborers in the third world who will never get the chance that these women as students in the first world got.

This is interesting:

http://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2014/june/june5_womenincomputerscience.html

Sadly, I'm not sure it's going to matter.   Unfortunately, women drop out of tech in DROVES because most jobs are generally unfriendly to women, sometimes outwardly so (sometimes it's just insidious).

My graduating class in 1992 was almost 50% women.  What percentage of engineers in my company are women?  We have 6, out of almost 100.  Three of them are under 27.

If the classroom size is the same, then that should translate to more or less equal numbers in the workforce.

I just checked the percentage of women who are in IT in my home country and the numbers are disappointing ( just over 30%). I expected it to be much higher.

I'll admit i'm incorrect here. Weird.. my sister has worked on projects all over the world and I've never heard a whisper on this issue from her. I'll raise this topic the next time I call.

[Luck12]

"some people achieve success" - I see a LOT of non-whites with successful corporate careers. There are literally more non-whites than whites at my previous office.

Google "bamboo ceiling" as an example of what Asians put up with in corporate America.  Also, google resume study black/white.

Not to mention whites are certainly privileged socially, esp in regards to dating:  E.g., no way anybody can argue that it isn't better to be a white guy vs a minority for dating, all other things being equal or even close to equal. 

[Gin1984]

In the 2 offices I have worked at in the US, there seem to be fairly even numbers of men and women. Regarding positions in power, I've met quite a few women who were part of what we call the "Bands". I can't be sure of the percentages though. Among the non whites, there seem to be less African Americans and a disproportionately large number of Asians and Indians w.r.t. their % of the population.

Recruitment in my field is largely based on academics. If you have the grades / skills, the job is yours. Not much place for gender or race.

You keep trying to use anecdotes, instead of just looking at/showing the data, I wonder why that is.  Unless your two offices compose the entire range of your field, the anecdote really does not matter.  Also, even if the company hires 50% each gender, the positions of power are what we are discussing.  You have two people, the CEO and the janitor, which has more influence?   Why not just say what field you are in and I can look.

I'm a software developer. Not sure of the gender / race breakup and frankly don't care about that. I just want colleagues with good skill sets... irrespective of gender / race / sexual orientation.

LOL, I am sure you do, because you not in the group that has to fight to try to get into it.  One quick search show how lopsided your field is and how much it is in your favor.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/software-engineer/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/

What is the ratio of men to women in computer science classrooms in the US? Is that an equal split? If not, that's probably the cause of the imbalance.

As I said earlier, its all about academics / grades.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorikozlowski/2012/03/22/women-in-tech-female-developers-by-the-numbers/

"One general hypothesis for the imbalance is schooling — because female college students pursue fewer computer science majors and tech-related fields, that background education leads to fewer tech-oriented jobs later."

You know what, the women here had a golden opportunity .. and they didn't take it. There are 178 million child laborers in the third world who will never get the chance that these women as students in the first world got.

This is interesting:

http://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2014/june/june5_womenincomputerscience.html

Sadly, I'm not sure it's going to matter.   Unfortunately, women drop out of tech in DROVES because most jobs are generally unfriendly to women, sometimes outwardly so (sometimes it's just insidious).

My graduating class in 1992 was almost 50% women.  What percentage of engineers in my company are women?  We have 6, out of almost 100.  Three of them are under 27.

If the classroom size is the same, then that should translate to more or less equal numbers in the workforce.

I just checked the percentage of women who are in IT in my home country and the numbers are disappointing ( just over 30%). I expected it to be much higher.

I'll admit i'm incorrect here. Weird.. my sister has worked on projects all over the world and I've never heard a whisper on this issue from her. I'll raise this topic the next time I call.

It does not, especially as you go to the higher ranks, which was my point.  And often, people don't talk about it to those who don't deal with it (aka those in the privileged position) because you most often, get the common responses on this thread.  Or, more directly, your automatic belief that it was not true.  And that is what we are talking about, you have a privilege to not deal with this day in and day out, so you don't see it.  No one is saying that makes you bad, it means that certain things are easier and you have, in some ways, an envious position. 

[KS]

"fun" anecdotal women in tech photo for anyone too busy at the moment to read through all the data in other links posted:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/02/wwdc-bathroom-photo_n_5432824.html

I'm a child of two software engineers, both of whom started with very little, worked very hard to get where they are and both of whom are quite successful. But some of Mom's stories from getting there... Among my favorites: as a hiring manager, sitting at a career fair next to the (male) HR rep, and having candidates insist they don't want to give their resume to the "HR lady" they want to give it to the hiring manager sitting next to her. (As you can imagine, she politely allowed them to hand it to the HR guy, and then tossed it in the trash.) This was in the 80s, but she still runs into issues when looking for work, especially now that she looks like someone's mother and all the startup whiz kids who are doing the hiring only want other fresh faced young guys they can play ultimate frisbee with after work with or whatever.

My industry does seem to have a lot of women, it's anecdotal but I'd say probably the majority of my closest colleagues over my career have been women so it's theoretically more female-friendly than many. But even in my case, when you get to the C-suite or even just a few rungs below that, not so much. I have yet to feel personally held back by my gender though, and do know that being born A) in the US, B) white and C) fairly well off has put me in a much better situation than many others, and I am grateful for that privilege, however loaded the word has apparently become. 

[Beric01]

To me, bicycling is like encountering a wild animal. As long as you don't make sudden movements (and if so signal beforehand), and just generally mind your own business, you're perfectly fine. I feel incredibly privileged (yes, that word again) riding a bicycle everywhere. Every advantage is given to us.

[davisgang90]

To me bicycling is like a box of chocolates.  You never know what you're going to get.

[GuitarStv]

To me bicycling is like a box of chocolates.  You never know what you're going to get.

Am I the only one who reads the fricking chocolate decoder manual that comes with the box??  33 years and I've avoided the shitty cherry and orange filled chocolate EVERY TIME.

[Gin1984]

To me bicycling is like a box of chocolates.  You never know what you're going to get.

Am I the only one who reads the fricking chocolate decoder manual that comes with the box??  33 years and I've avoided the shitty cherry and orange filled chocolate EVERY TIME.

No but I am allergic to nuts.   :)

[davisgang90]

Iowastache,

Well said!

[Gin1984]

My question on this isn't whether whites, males, middle class+ or what have you ARE privileged, but what the best response is.

As mentioned above, anyone living in the US, Canada, most of Europe, Australia, etc is far more "privileged" than the vast majority of people from developing countries.  That doesn't mean that within the first world countries you don't have some that are more privileged than others, some severely so.  That said, save inheriting millions of dollars or being supported through your adulthood by a trust fund, those that are privileged still have to make their way in the world.

Should they feel guilty? No.  IMO, that's a waste of time.  They can still be proud of their accomplishments, and don't have to be embarrassed about being white, from an upper middle class family, etc.  I think the real question is how do you give others a better opportunity.  I personally think that's best done through charities, though from other threads I think there are many who would disagree with me here.

For those talking about privilege - I'd say to put your money (or time) where your mouth is.  All of us on this board are better off than many/most within our own communities.  There's a lot of ways you can bring others up.

Lastly I'll say this (and then quit rambling): I think there are way more socio-economic hardships in today's America than there are gender or racially derived ones.  It's the kids from lower class families, regardless of gender, race or religion, that don't have stable families and a large focus on education.  Those are the kids that grow up to be dependent adults, whether through charity, government assistance or both.

Do you have any evidence to support this statement?

[MoneyCat]

This entire thread makes me really crave a pumpkin spice latte.

[eyePod]

Anyone born in the United States or Europe/Australia is "nation" privileged.  The opportunities we enjoy regardless of color/gender are hard for people from many countries to even imagine.

And yet we still spend our time whining about how tough life is and envying those with more than us.

Crybabies.

This really struck me the other day at work when the water cooler/filtering machine was down. Everyone was freaking out. I drank tap water that day, and couldn't believe how much I take our clean water for granted. It tasted a little bit different, had a metallic taste and all that. But seriously, there are nations out there that have dirtier drinking water than what goes into my toilet. Blows my mind.

[Gin1984]

My question on this isn't whether whites, males, middle class+ or what have you ARE privileged, but what the best response is.

As mentioned above, anyone living in the US, Canada, most of Europe, Australia, etc is far more "privileged" than the vast majority of people from developing countries.  That doesn't mean that within the first world countries you don't have some that are more privileged than others, some severely so.  That said, save inheriting millions of dollars or being supported through your adulthood by a trust fund, those that are privileged still have to make their way in the world.

Should they feel guilty? No.  IMO, that's a waste of time.  They can still be proud of their accomplishments, and don't have to be embarrassed about being white, from an upper middle class family, etc.  I think the real question is how do you give others a better opportunity.  I personally think that's best done through charities, though from other threads I think there are many who would disagree with me here.

For those talking about privilege - I'd say to put your money (or time) where your mouth is.  All of us on this board are better off than many/most within our own communities.  There's a lot of ways you can bring others up.

Lastly I'll say this (and then quit rambling): I think there are way more socio-economic hardships in today's America than there are gender or racially derived ones.  It's the kids from lower class families, regardless of gender, race or religion, that don't have stable families and a large focus on education.  Those are the kids that grow up to be dependent adults, whether through charity, government assistance or both.

Do you have any evidence to support this statement?

Do I have evidence to post right now that supports this enough to sway a viewpoint? Doubtful.

I do know the Institute for the Study of Labor did a study in 2006 (http://ftp.iza.org/dp1993.pdf) and found out that at least 50% of kids born into these types of situations will remain in them throughout their adult life.  Specifically, the study found that, "The United Kingdom, the United States, and to a slightly lesser extent France, are the least mobile countries with 40 to 50% of the earnings advantage high income young adults have over their lower income counterparts being associated with the fact that they were the children of higher earning parents."

Of course there are some racial aspects of that as well, but then I think you're getting into a chicken and egg type of argument.

Freakonomics actually looked into that, and it's a very difficult question to answer.  On the one hand, you can put a historically black or "ethinic" sounding name and a "conventional" name on the exact same resume and the latter will get a better response.  That said, Steven Levitt from the University of Chicago and Roland Fryer of Harvard looked into it and determined that a person's first name doesn't effect their future economic status at all (http://www.nber.org/papers/w9938.pdf?new_window=1).  This is, of course, alluding to names that are easily identifiable as black or at least "non-white" names, which seems to remove a big chunk of the racial component and lead you back to the socio-economic one. 

One of the basic parts of their findings is that "black names" aren't really black names but rather "poor black names."  From the third page of the above link, "In the 1960s, the differences in name choices between Blacks and Whites were relatively small, and factors that predict distinctively Black names in later years (single mothers, racially isolated neighborhoods, etc.) have much lower explanatory power in the 1960’s.  At that time, Blacks who lived in highly racially segregated neighborhoods adopted names that were almost indistinguishable from Blacks in more integrated neighborhoods and similar to Whites." It wasn't until later that the poorer neighborhoods started naming their children more unique names, which then seems to negate the "resume" experiment.

Anyway, I'm rambling again.  I think it's a very interesting topic.  Fortunately, no matter what you believe to be the cause, there or organizations you can get involved with that will result in the same end goal - a better starting point for those born into a less privileged scenario.

Thank you for posting this.  I found it very interesting. 

[RetiredAt63]

TL:DR            Canada =/= U.S. in social and economic mobility

Very interesting paper.  I also now understand why I feel so disoriented on this forum sometimes - Canada is at about the same numbers as the Nordic countries, and not at all like the U.S.

Re privilege, those of us whose families valued education and hard work are lucky, in that we generally will also value education and hard work and get the benefits.  Personally I also was lucky, I benefited from the second wave of women's liberation (and here's to the Famous Five [first wave] who ended up having Canadian women declared "persons" under the law).  I am also from a family with lots of family stories of hard work and financial planning paying off.  And that is the Irish side (and let's remember the Irish were definitely seen as drinking fighting ne'er do wells).  The Scottish side - well we all know the Scots in Canada were hard workers, thrifty, strongly wanting to own land (see Great Scots!: How the Scots Created Canada by Matthew Shaw).

Shaw also makes an interesting point about Canadian education - the Universities were much more merit oriented, and were founded on the Scottish University model, which were also more merit oriented than the English ones.  There is a reason so many engineers were nick-named "Scotty".  And of course education in Canada is extremely good and still affordable.  This makes a difference.  Everyone knows they can get an education if they can do the academics.  My CEGEP (= Community College) did a study one year and we had students from 47 different ethnic backgrounds.  My small town (one high school) has lots of students who go on to College and University.

Not saying that Canada is perfect, just that we seem to be a bit better at creating opportunities for more people.  We still have the "elite" private schools and some universities are seen as more "elite" in terms of social background, not in their academics.

[
I do know the Institute for the Study of Labor did a study in 2006 (http://ftp.iza.org/dp1993.pdf) and found out that at least 50% of kids born into these types of situations will remain in them throughout their adult life.  Specifically, the study found that, "The United Kingdom, the United States, and to a slightly lesser extent France, are the least mobile countries with 40 to 50% of the earnings advantage high income young adults have over their lower income counterparts being associated with the fact that they were the children of higher earning parents."

[Gerard]

The Canadian social mobility data is reassuring, but it's sometimes hard to draw parallels to other countries for our ethnicity data.

In Canada immigration/generation and ethnicity are linked (i.e., the more recently your family got here, the more likely you are to be non-white or at least non-WASP). And because our immigration policy has increasingly moved to giving so many points for education and skills, recent immigrants are generally better educated and trained than the general population. And their kids do well because educated people encourage education for their children, so our immigrant-heavy public schools are actually pretty good.

So am I saying that Canada's people of colour (our term: "visible minorities") do relatively well because they're better? Um, yeah, I guess I am! Hmmm, I didn't think that was where my post was going...

[RetiredAt63]

TL:DR    Discussion of Canadian immigrant/education experience

Certainly a lot of immigrants I have worked with have been well educated.  Entry language skills also make a difference (i.e. if you are first generation "black" in Quebec, odds are you are from Haiti - like former Governor-General Michaëlle Jean).  Affordable education helps too.  Certainly in CEGEPs and Universities no-one bats an eyelash at place of origin of faculty and students.

Ethnicity - first was French and English and Scottish and Irish, then the next big wave was Ukrainian, then Italian and Greek (at least in the East), then all over the world.  Plus lots of local bits and pieces - I know of certain areas with high populations of Swiss-German.

I do prefer the "Cultural mosaic" to the "melting pot"  as long as immigrants leave local pushes behind.  Certainly Canada had issues a recent while ago about Tamils and support for the Tamil Tigers - but then there were Irish who supported the IRA, etc. I was happy to see in the report I found how many Canadians put their first ethnicity as "Canadian".  I was also encouraged years ago when my DD went to a youth activity, told me all about the neat boys from BC in the next tent, and it was only when I saw pictures that I realized they were ethnic Chinese.  It was totally irrelevant to her.

"So am I saying that Canada's people of colour (our term: "visible minorities") do relatively well because they're better? "  I read someplace recently that instead of having a "brain drain", we now gain more than we lose.  Nice for us, hard for the countries of origin.  Of course high-ranked academics move around a lot.   I also knew a lot of grad students who came to Canada because we were a Commonwealth country, then took that education back home.

The Canadian social mobility data is reassuring, but it's sometimes hard to draw parallels to other countries for our ethnicity data.

In Canada immigration/generation and ethnicity are linked (i.e., the more recently your family got here, the more likely you are to be non-white or at least non-WASP). And because our immigration policy has increasingly moved to giving so many points for education and skills, recent immigrants are generally better educated and trained than the general population. And their kids do well because educated people encourage education for their children, so our immigrant-heavy public schools are actually pretty good.

So am I saying that Canada's people of colour (our term: "visible minorities") do relatively well because they're better? Um, yeah, I guess I am! Hmmm, I didn't think that was where my post was going...