Author Topic: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean  (Read 2302 times)

scottish

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I found this story to be pleasantly inspiring.    A Toronto couple - empty nesters - had the courage to sell their home near the top of the market for 1.6M CAD and relocate to an ocean-side house near Halifax.

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2017/02/21/ch-ch-ch-changes/

Cassie

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2017, 02:56:13 PM »
Smart move!

Kashmani

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 11:12:15 AM »
I don't find this inspiring at all. To me, this is a sickening transfer of wealth from the younger generation to the older one. There is nothing noble in receiving a seven-figure windfall simply from having been born at the right moment in time.

FWIW, I have done the Toronto real estate thing. As a Bay Street attorney with a working spouse, I managed to pay my 14-ft wide house off in under ten years. My neighbours on each side, who were one generation older, had managed to do the same. The only difference: They managed to do it on one blue-collar income. When it now takes a professional degree to have a cheap house that was built in a blue-collar neighbourhood, something is amiss.






GuitarStv

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 11:34:40 AM »
We've reached the top of the market in Toronto?  Garth has been making that claim for well over fifteen years now.  If I'd listened to him seven years ago I wouldn't have a fully paid off home in this city today.

iowajes

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 11:38:05 AM »
I don't find this inspiring at all. To me, this is a sickening transfer of wealth from the younger generation to the older one. There is nothing noble in receiving a seven-figure windfall simply from having been born at the right moment in time.

FWIW, I have done the Toronto real estate thing. As a Bay Street attorney with a working spouse, I managed to pay my 14-ft wide house off in under ten years. My neighbours on each side, who were one generation older, had managed to do the same. The only difference: They managed to do it on one blue-collar income. When it now takes a professional degree to have a cheap house that was built in a blue-collar neighbourhood, something is amiss.

So do you think people should be required to sell real estate for what they purchased it for?  I don't think there is anything "noble" in this; but I'm not sure I understand the anger.

Kashmani

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 01:09:40 PM »
No, I don't think that someone has a duty to sell real estate for what they paid for it.

But I also do not think we should glorify a seven-figure tax-free windfall achieved at the expense of another generation. These people did not do anything particularly laudable - they were simply born at the right time. And their nice retirement by the ocean is financed by the despair of the next generation.

My anger is a general one. I am all for gen X and the millennials saving money and reducing their expectations. Heck, I did so myself. I am raising kids in 1/3 the space that my own parents had when they were my age and worked a lot longer hours than they ever did. I sucked it up. But I still think that it is fundamentally unjust that the Boomer generation has no qualms to take from those that came before them as well as those that follow them. Frankly - all around me I see boomers who did not plan their lives particularly well, yet whose retirement is being saved by their enormous housing windfalls. And they are treating it as their God-given right and are quite smug about how smart they were to buy their house. It has nothing to do with smarts. It's a one-time, non-repeatable win achieved by pushing interest rates close to zero. It's like some alternate version of the fable of the ant and the grasshopper in which the grasshopper gets to take 3/4 of the ant's winter supply by rewriting the rules of the game at the end of summer.

And it surprises me that the original poster - who appears to be generation X - would find this inspiring.




Cassie

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 01:46:18 PM »
Many boomers who had saved for retirement lost half or more of their savings when the market crashed. Is that their fault too?  Some lost their homes during 2008 and later when housing went way down and they lost their jobs, etc.  So some have made $ on their homes which I think is awesome. It is not the boomers fault that housing prices in some areas are ridiculous and that you have to work harder or live smaller then your parents. It is all about choices and what is going on in the economy. If your area is too expensive get jobs somewhere else and move.  Sometimes bad things just happen to some people.

Dicey

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 02:27:10 PM »
I don't find this inspiring at all. To me, this is a sickening transfer of wealth from the younger generation to the older one. There is nothing noble in receiving a seven-figure windfall simply from having been born at the right moment in time.
I beg to disagree. By making changes and moving to a lower COLA, they have put themselves in a position to help themselves for the rest of their lives. I imagine there will be loads of folks who cling to houses they can't afford because they are unwilling to save enough to support their retirement lifestyle and also unwilling to move. Their houses may become rundown, they will worry about their heating bills, food prices, etc.

There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of the opportunities that your circumstances present. Nothing. By your logic, none of us should avail ourselves of computers, cellphones, microwaves or any number of modern conveniences? I think not.
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lostamonkey

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 02:44:26 PM »
The only part of that article I disagree with is the 6% withdrawl rate. That seems way too high and there is a very real chance of portfolio failure (assuming they don't lower their withdrawls when they receive CPP/OAS).

Cassie

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 02:50:56 PM »
Diane I have seen people do what you describe and it is just stupid. If we ever need our house $ we would downsize to a condo and pocket the rest. I consider it a nice safety net to be sitting on a pile of house $. If ours was worth that huge amount it would be gone.

scottish

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2017, 03:55:08 PM »
I found the article inspiring because they had the intestinal fortitude to take advantage of their windfall.   I'm sorry that millennials can't afford a house in Toronto, but I never wanted a house in Toronto.

There's a lot of nonsense about government intervention in the housing market in the news.   I'm appalled to see people think that the government should intervene in here, outside of tightening up mortgage rules.    How would you like it if the government said you could only sell your ETFs at a set price?   Gimme a break.

As far as Garth Turner goes, just imagine how happy he'll be if TO real estate finally hits a top after all his years of predictions!

Dicey

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 05:08:24 PM »
Diane I have seen people do what you describe and it is just stupid. If we ever need our house $ we would downsize to a condo and pocket the rest. I consider it a nice safety net to be sitting on a pile of house $. If ours was worth that huge amount it would be gone.
Not sure what you're calling "stupid." You think they should have bought a condo?? Care to clarify?

Oh, wait, you mean the people who refuse to leave their too-big homes?  Yeah, stoopid. Most people who downsize say it's the best decision ever. Anecdotal evidence, of course. But since I own rental properties in a 5K home senior community,  my data pool is larger than average.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 01:34:28 AM by Diane C »
I did it! I have a journal!
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2017, 01:32:43 AM »
The only part of that article I disagree with is the 6% withdrawl rate. That seems way too high and there is a very real chance of portfolio failure (assuming they don't lower their withdrawls when they receive CPP/OAS).
The part I disagree with is that they live in Halifax. It seems to be livable about 3 months a year. Not exactly what I picture when people retire and move to the ocean.

http://www.halifax.climatemps.com/temperatures.php
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okits

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2017, 01:51:28 AM »
The only part of that article I disagree with is the 6% withdrawl rate. That seems way too high and there is a very real chance of portfolio failure (assuming they don't lower their withdrawls when they receive CPP/OAS).
The part I disagree with is that they live in Halifax. It seems to be livable about 3 months a year. Not exactly what I picture when people retire and move to the ocean.

http://www.halifax.climatemps.com/temperatures.php

As a Canadian, those numbers make Halifax seem quite temperate.  The damp and snow might be a bit much for land-locked folks like me, though.
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Kashmani

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2017, 06:41:10 AM »
There's a lot of nonsense about government intervention in the housing market in the news.   I'm appalled to see people think that the government should intervene in here, outside of tightening up mortgage rules.    How would you like it if the government said you could only sell your ETFs at a set price?   Gimme a break.

Housing is a basic human need. ETFs are simply investments. There are a number of things government could do, like scrap the CMHC, require a minimum 25% down payment, or simply increase interest rates again. That would pop the bubble in no time. To me, that would represent more intergenerational equity than to continue to protect the windfall of the generation about to retire.

scottish

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2017, 07:22:53 AM »
Housing is definitely a need.   Owning a house is not.

Insisting on a minimum 25% down payment would be tightening the mortgage rules so I have no problem with that.   

I take it you think scrapping the CMHC would make lenders more circumspect?    That sounds like a good idea if it works.

But interest rates are used for larger purposes than controlling the housing market.

My point was that the buyers are acting of their own free will as are the sellers.   People are entitled to do what they want with their property, whether it's money, future wages or their home.

lostamonkey

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2017, 08:32:53 PM »
There's a lot of nonsense about government intervention in the housing market in the news.   I'm appalled to see people think that the government should intervene in here, outside of tightening up mortgage rules.    How would you like it if the government said you could only sell your ETFs at a set price?   Gimme a break.

Housing is a basic human need. ETFs are simply investments. There are a number of things government could do, like scrap the CMHC, require a minimum 25% down payment, or simply increase interest rates again. That would pop the bubble in no time. To me, that would represent more intergenerational equity than to continue to protect the windfall of the generation about to retire.

Government does things that affects stock prices all the time. Examples would be promoting certain companies/industries (eg: Bombardier), raising/lowering corporate tax rates, changing securities laws, regulating and deregulating certain industries, approving or not approving certain pipelines, etc.

I think most people would agree that government should not control the price of privately held housing. They can and should do things that will indirectly affect housing prices if they think the market is unhealthy. I do not think that they should raise interest rates as the economy is still relatively weak and raising rates will affect other parts of the economy. I think government should tighten mortgage rules, prevent tax evasion/money laundering in the housing market, restrict/tax foreign buyers, and tax speculators who are not renting out or occupying their properties. Governments (local, provincial, and national) are already doing all these things. I would also like to see a lifetime cap for the principle residence exemption, and a repeal of the first time home buyers tax credit but I doubt either of these things will happen.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2017, 09:47:35 PM »
The only part of that article I disagree with is the 6% withdrawl rate. That seems way too high and there is a very real chance of portfolio failure (assuming they don't lower their withdrawls when they receive CPP/OAS).
The part I disagree with is that they live in Halifax. It seems to be livable about 3 months a year. Not exactly what I picture when people retire and move to the ocean.

http://www.halifax.climatemps.com/temperatures.php

As a Canadian, those numbers make Halifax seem quite temperate.  The damp and snow might be a bit much for land-locked folks like me, though.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's quite nice here south of the border.
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HeadedWest

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2017, 08:11:40 AM »
Pretty sure the use of "inspiring" was a reference to the fact that these people woke up and left The Matrix, i.e. the belief that their houses will always continue to rise in value even after such stunning growth over the past 10 years.

It isn't fair or noble that some houses went up in value and others went down.  It's just what happened.  Both are possibilities that the buyers of the home should be aware of.  And real life will hold them to the consequences of that whether they see it coming or not.

scottish

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2017, 08:55:43 AM »
Quote
Quote from: okits on February 25, 2017, 01:51:28 AM
Quote
Quote from: Metric Mouse on February 25, 2017, 01:32:43 AM
Quote from: lostamonkey on February 24, 2017, 02:44:26 PM
The only part of that article I disagree with is the 6% withdrawl rate. That seems way too high and there is a very real chance of portfolio failure (assuming they don't lower their withdrawls when they receive CPP/OAS).
The part I disagree with is that they live in Halifax. It seems to be livable about 3 months a year. Not exactly what I picture when people retire and move to the ocean.

http://www.halifax.climatemps.com/temperatures.php

As a Canadian, those numbers make Halifax seem quite temperate.  The damp and snow might be a bit much for land-locked folks like me, though.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's quite nice here south of the border.

MM, an average temp of 8 C is quite nice.   It must be sweltering where you live...

frugaldoc

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2017, 09:11:54 AM »
I don't find this inspiring at all. To me, this is a sickening transfer of wealth from the younger generation to the older one. There is nothing noble in receiving a seven-figure windfall simply from having been born at the right moment in time.

FWIW, I have done the Toronto real estate thing. As a Bay Street attorney with a working spouse, I managed to pay my 14-ft wide house off in under ten years. My neighbours on each side, who were one generation older, had managed to do the same. The only difference: They managed to do it on one blue-collar income. When it now takes a professional degree to have a cheap house that was built in a blue-collar neighbourhood, something is amiss.

In a voluntary transaction both parties make decisions that maximize their utility. The sellers got a good deal, and the buyers presumably did as well (or they would not have made the decision to buy). No one is forced to buy a house in Toronto. There are hundreds of lower priced cities. Toronto is expensive because people are willing to pay a lot to live there, there are high paying jobs, etc.

None of us can choose the moment of our birth as you point out, but we can take advantage of any economic opportunities that present themselves. The current generation will have it's unique set of challenges and opportunities.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2017, 10:21:47 AM »
Quote
Quote from: okits on February 25, 2017, 01:51:28 AM
Quote
Quote from: Metric Mouse on February 25, 2017, 01:32:43 AM
Quote from: lostamonkey on February 24, 2017, 02:44:26 PM
The only part of that article I disagree with is the 6% withdrawl rate. That seems way too high and there is a very real chance of portfolio failure (assuming they don't lower their withdrawls when they receive CPP/OAS).
The part I disagree with is that they live in Halifax. It seems to be livable about 3 months a year. Not exactly what I picture when people retire and move to the ocean.

http://www.halifax.climatemps.com/temperatures.php

As a Canadian, those numbers make Halifax seem quite temperate.  The damp and snow might be a bit much for land-locked folks like me, though.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's quite nice here south of the border.

MM, an average temp of 8 C is quite nice.   It must be sweltering where you live...
The mean temp variance is 8 degrees as well - so the low end would mean no skinny dipping in the lake at night, no lying in the back yard in a tee-shirt to watch the stars, no midnight motorcycle rides. Risk frost on the windows in an average morning. Yes, my place is much balmier than that.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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scottish

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2017, 02:57:31 PM »
I've been swimming off the Atlantic cost.    Although it was during a heat wave in August...    :-)

Chas

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2017, 04:17:59 PM »
There are plenty of other places to live in Canada, especially if one has a professional designation.

I grew up in Quebec and left in 1980 due to the political/economic mess it was in when I was in my twenties. I didn't blame anyone, I just took control of my own life and never felt for a minute I had any entitlement whatsoever.

Goldielocks

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2017, 11:07:33 PM »
We've reached the top of the market in Toronto?  Garth has been making that claim for well over fifteen years now.  If I'd listened to him seven years ago I wouldn't have a fully paid off home in this city today.

Trust me (from Vancouver) -- the market can continue to skyrocket.  It has only a modest relationship to the incomes of the underlying population, once empty nesters and out-of area buyers start feeding the frenzy.  All it takes is one person from outside your area to buy, to trigger 3-7 more house sales (as people who sell, need to buy).

There is a LOT of world-wide equity looking for property to invest in, right now.  Canada (and Australia) look pretty good right now.   Manhattan and London and Sydney  and Hong Kong know all about this.

pudding

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2017, 12:54:14 AM »
We've reached the top of the market in Toronto?  Garth has been making that claim for well over fifteen years now.  If I'd listened to him seven years ago I wouldn't have a fully paid off home in this city today.


I was going to say the same thing. My friend loves the greater fool/Garth and kept telling me years ago that I'd made a big mistake buying a house in Vancouver and to sell sell sell...  if I sold it today I'd honesty get around $600,000 more than if I'd sold it when he urged me to, based on Garth's advice.

marty998

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2017, 05:15:14 AM »
Fuck, I swear if you take out all mention of place names this thread could be about Australia...

Right down to labelling boomers as poor unfortunate victims of the housing boom

It is not the boomers fault that housing prices in some areas are ridiculous and that you have to work harder or live smaller then your parents.

(Not picking on you Cassie... just pointing out the same lines are repeated here about boomers who are "burdened" with multi-million dollar properties)

We also have a Garth. His name is Steve Keen.

BlueHouse

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2017, 06:49:24 AM »
I don't find this inspiring at all. To me, this is a sickening transfer of wealth from the younger generation to the older one. There is nothing noble in receiving a seven-figure windfall simply from having been born at the right moment in time.

FWIW, I have done the Toronto real estate thing. As a Bay Street attorney with a working spouse, I managed to pay my 14-ft wide house off in under ten years. My neighbours on each side, who were one generation older, had managed to do the same. The only difference: They managed to do it on one blue-collar income. When it now takes a professional degree to have a cheap house that was built in a blue-collar neighbourhood, something is amiss.
Wow, what a self-entitled mush of garbage you've written. Poor you, you have to live in a paid-off home with blue collar neighbors!  Maybe it hasn't occurred to you that a generation ago, the opportunity that you and your spouse now enjoy didn't exist for everyone.  Your blu collar neighbor's had their own challenges, just as the next gen will think you were lucky because you got in the market while houses were still available. So while you sit there judging others, from the comfort of your paid off house, typing on a fancy computer with access to instant information and education for all, just consider that the ones behind you may feel similar to you. If you're in a position to have a paid off home in one of the most expensive cities in the most expensive time in the history of the world, maybe you shouldn't feel so sorry for yourself.
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scottish

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2017, 10:49:22 AM »
Ok, I'll admit my title had some alternative facts in it.

Garth Turner really has 2 messages:

1.  the Toronto and Vancouver housing markets are in a bubble and it's going to deflate.   Predicting the markets is impossible, so this message is wrong.

2.  Buying a 1.5M CAD house with a mortgage is making a huge leveraged bet on a single asset with no diversification and poor liquidity.    This message has alot of sense to it.    After all, you wouldn't borrow $1M and invest it in a single company when your net worth is only $30,000.   And who the heck would lend you this money in the first place?   They'd be nuts too.

I started the thread because I found the story an inspiring alternative to the usual complaints about high real estate prices.

GuitarStv

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2017, 12:21:27 PM »
Buying a 1.5M CAD house with a mortgage is making a huge leveraged bet on a single asset with no diversification and poor liquidity.    This message has alot of sense to it.    After all, you wouldn't borrow $1M and invest it in a single company when your net worth is only $30,000.   And who the heck would lend you this money in the first place?   They'd be nuts too.

Risk is rather different between investing a million dollars in a company and a house.  At the end of the day you can still live in the house . . . it doesn't matter if the value of the property goes to zero (which is pretty rare in the housing market), you still have a physical asset.

I don't think you would find it easy to purchase a million dollar home with only 30,000$ to your name and no income.  I do think you would find it easy to get a loan to purchase a million dollars of a particular company if you had only 30,000$ to your name but made 250,000$ a year.  Lending to someone in this position would be a calculated risk, with reasonable chance of reward.

scottish

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2017, 02:08:06 PM »
Sure, but it's a physical asset that you have to maintain with
- property taxes
- capital improvements/building maintenance
-utilities
and you still have to pay carrying costs on all that debt.

Alot of kids have substantial interest rate risk without worrying about the market deflating.   If interest rates mean revert they won't be able to get a 2.5% mortgage on renewal they'll be looking at 4% or more.    You can buy investment grade bonds yielding 2.5% now, so interest rates have been going up.

If the market deflates at the same time, they could be looking at foreclosures.   And in Canada you can't walk away from your mortgage like the Americans.   This isn't the same as the value of your property dropping all the way to zero, but it's pretty bad.   Being stuck with debt of a couple of hundred K after foreclosure would truly suck.   


Kashmani

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2017, 11:24:20 AM »
I don't find this inspiring at all. To me, this is a sickening transfer of wealth from the younger generation to the older one. There is nothing noble in receiving a seven-figure windfall simply from having been born at the right moment in time.

FWIW, I have done the Toronto real estate thing. As a Bay Street attorney with a working spouse, I managed to pay my 14-ft wide house off in under ten years. My neighbours on each side, who were one generation older, had managed to do the same. The only difference: They managed to do it on one blue-collar income. When it now takes a professional degree to have a cheap house that was built in a blue-collar neighbourhood, something is amiss.
Wow, what a self-entitled mush of garbage you've written. Poor you, you have to live in a paid-off home with blue collar neighbors!  Maybe it hasn't occurred to you that a generation ago, the opportunity that you and your spouse now enjoy didn't exist for everyone.  Your blu collar neighbor's had their own challenges, just as the next gen will think you were lucky because you got in the market while houses were still available. So while you sit there judging others, from the comfort of your paid off house, typing on a fancy computer with access to instant information and education for all, just consider that the ones behind you may feel similar to you. If you're in a position to have a paid off home in one of the most expensive cities in the most expensive time in the history of the world, maybe you shouldn't feel so sorry for yourself.

Isn't that exactly the point I made? That we should not glorify one generation getting rich at the expense of the next generation, through nothing more than the benefit of a well-timed birth?

I, for one, would gladly accept a housing crash and corresponding loss of value if it meant the next generation could afford living quarters again.

And for the record, I no longer live in Toronto. I sold the place seven years ago. My current locale is not nearly as crazy.

BlueHouse

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2017, 05:13:47 AM »
I don't find this inspiring at all. To me, this is a sickening transfer of wealth from the younger generation to the older one. There is nothing noble in receiving a seven-figure windfall simply from having been born at the right moment in time.

FWIW, I have done the Toronto real estate thing. As a Bay Street attorney with a working spouse, I managed to pay my 14-ft wide house off in under ten years. My neighbours on each side, who were one generation older, had managed to do the same. The only difference: They managed to do it on one blue-collar income. When it now takes a professional degree to have a cheap house that was built in a blue-collar neighbourhood, something is amiss.
Wow, what a self-entitled mush of garbage you've written. Poor you, you have to live in a paid-off home with blue collar neighbors!  Maybe it hasn't occurred to you that a generation ago, the opportunity that you and your spouse now enjoy didn't exist for everyone.  Your blu collar neighbor's had their own challenges, just as the next gen will think you were lucky because you got in the market while houses were still available. So while you sit there judging others, from the comfort of your paid off house, typing on a fancy computer with access to instant information and education for all, just consider that the ones behind you may feel similar to you. If you're in a position to have a paid off home in one of the most expensive cities in the most expensive time in the history of the world, maybe you shouldn't feel so sorry for yourself.

Isn't that exactly the point I made? That we should not glorify one generation getting rich at the expense of the next generation, through nothing more than the benefit of a well-timed birth?

I, for one, would gladly accept a housing crash and corresponding loss of value if it meant the next generation could afford living quarters again.

And for the record, I no longer live in Toronto. I sold the place seven years ago. My current locale is not nearly as crazy.
I misjudged the tone of your comment. I thought you were crying about the advantages that another generation had that your generation missed out on. When I reread your post, I see that I read tone into it where there was none implied. Sorry about that. :(   
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

MMMaybe

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Re: Toronto homeowners sell at the top and retire to live by the ocean
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2017, 02:28:44 AM »
I think bloated real estate values are a travesty and a real burden to younger generations. In places like Toronto/Melbourne/Sydney/London etc I see the ridiculous prices forcing out young families and socially cleansing areas. It is killing neighbourhoods (houses not being lived in or filled with transient renters) and homogenising everything, as you need to be a chain store to afford local commercial rents. Forget independent small businesses.

I really wish that housing returned to being a form of shelter and not a form of malinvestment.

Of course I know I am dreaming. The younger generations should just vote with their feet and not shackle themselves. There are other places to live.