Author Topic: The military version of "Just one more year"...  (Read 18666 times)

EricL

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2014, 01:23:36 PM »
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As an E4 I remember reading a leadership development book where E9s and O6s had to struggle so hard to go from Battalion to Brigade and advance their careers.  I had some trouble relating to their concerns.  Meanwhile I was giving myself an aneurism wondering where my E5 was at.  Of course now I'm either salivating about where my E6 is while going to PT before work to be as Army Strong as I can.  It's all relative.  One more year for more money is not as powerful a motivator  as one more year to get to the next rung.

I'm in the National Guard now so the money is less of a concern.  Of course I still want the pension at the end but will probably stay beyond 20 if it's still fun and I still got rungs to climb.

For anyone invested in their career a promotion is a big deal.  And the more invested, the bigger the deal.  I was in the Guard once as an E4 and filling an E7's slot.  My command assured me they'd promote me up a paygrade but then turned around and filled the slot with an E6 who had more cheese points.  I wasn't super ambitious but that's when I seriously started looking for alternative promotion routes. 

Spartana

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2014, 01:43:17 PM »
As an E4 I remember reading a leadership development book where E9s and O6s had to struggle so hard to go from Battalion to Brigade and advance their careers.  I had some trouble relating to their concerns.  Meanwhile I was giving myself an aneurism wondering where my E5 was at.  Of course now I'm either salivating about where my E6 is while going to PT before work to be as Army Strong as I can.  It's all relative.  One more year for more money is not as powerful a motivator  as one more year to get to the next rung.

I'm in the National Guard now so the money is less of a concern.  Of course I still want the pension at the end but will probably stay beyond 20 if it's still fun and I still got rungs to climb.
And going from E-6 to E-7 is an even bigger "just one more year" pull. You're usually at that approx. 7 -10 ish  year point and deciding if another 10 - 13 is worth it. With the carrot of making E-7 and beyond right there for the grabbing. And in the CG (and probably the smaller Navy units too) Chiefs are semi-demi-Gods who rule their roosts (often as XOs and COs too on smaller boats (100 ft patrol boats say) and units) and command a lot of respect - often more so then the Officers (apologies to the denizens of the Wardroom :-)!).  So even those people who only plan to do their 4 or 6 year tour and get out, the lure of E-7 and up often makes them stay in longer then planned.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 01:50:56 PM by Spartana »

RFAAOATB

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2014, 02:37:49 PM »
From what my Coast Guard friends have told me, promotions are rather slow in that branch.  Unfortunately with the wars winding down there's a decrease all around the board.  I'm only half interested in my E6 because I would rather focus on being more attractive and ready for OCS.

Spartana

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2014, 12:12:37 PM »
From what my Coast Guard friends have told me, promotions are rather slow in that branch.  Unfortunately with the wars winding down there's a decrease all around the board.  I'm only half interested in my E6 because I would rather focus on being more attractive and ready for OCS.
It depends on your rate (job specialty). Some can take years and years to get any kind of promotion just due to the scarcity of billets (job openings) - and being in a tiny service (maybe 40K people total) where people rarely get out before 20 makes it even harder. But engineering rates (especially MKs) and deck rates (BMs) are the workhorses of the CG and many are needed at every unit so are always in demand and can move up the rank pretty quickly.

mm1970

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2014, 09:56:11 PM »
I am enjoying this thread immensely!

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Personally I think it's harder to be the CO's spouse than to be the CO.  You give up your identity for that of the command.  You get all the personnel crises and disasters, the rules of conduct are always confusing, you can't send anyone to mast, and they won't let you shoot at anything.  However it's possible that if your spouse's command includes women servicemembers, then you may have a male military spouse in there somewhere who's not sure how welcome he'd be at your command spouse's club functions.  If you reach out to him and find out what he wants to do, and make him welcome, then you'll get a lot of grateful support.

This is a very good point.  One of my good friends from the Navy met her spouse in the Navy.  We were NR, so just a 5 year tour and out.  Her husband is a submariner who did an O-3 shore tour at NR, which is how they met.

She has been saying that this is the "last sea tour" for a few times.  XO tour, then CO tour.  He just finished his 2nd CO tour (bigger boat this time) and is back on shore.  I went to the change in command ceremony when he left his first CO tour, and I heard the stories of all the work she had to do as the CO's wife.  And she was wondering how it was going to work for the new CO, because his wife was a small business owner (new wife) who was not at all interested in the "CO's wife job".

It will be interesting to see if he actually retires after the shore tour.  She really wants to move back to Colorado.  They've been married since the 1990's.  She has her MBA, but hasn't really worked outside the home.  But considering the work involved with 2 kids and being a CO's wife, I can see why.

DH's community is a bit different.  A CO tour of an aviation squadron actually consists of 15 months as XO, and then 15 months as CO.

I have friends doing it now, and the wife has given me a list of gifts I am expected to buy.  It's literally hundreds of dollars, even if I go pretty cheap.  A welcome gift for every new spouse, hostess gift for each monthly meeting host, baby gift for all newborns, birthday gift for every spouse, Christmas gift for every spouse, and then a gift for every incoming CO spouse from all the squadrons on base, as well as a few others.  That alone is just insane.  It's not like that Stateside, but the overseas bases seem to make everything a bigger deal.
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And the meetings!  She spend ~10+ hours a week going to meetings and functions she's expected to attend.  Crazy.

I plan on teaching English again (loved it last time, and the money is phenomenal) and maybe doing an online graduate program.  And if that means missing the monthly ombudsmen meeting or the CoC for another command on base, so be it. 

DH was at a command for a while where the CO wasn't married.  That just meant the usual COW (yes, that's actually what they are called!) responsibilities when to the XO's wife, so she had to do it all for 30 months, instead of 15.
It's very interesting to read about the differences.  I have a college buddy who is in PCO school at NR.  Now, I've been out long enough that I can't remember if he's heading to be the XO or the CO?  (He's an aviator, and I do remember that reactor officers are nukes and CO's are aviators...).  Anyway, his wife was my roommie in college, so I'm trying to picture her as the CO's wife...

Nords

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2014, 10:52:58 PM »
I am enjoying this thread immensely!

Quote
Personally I think it's harder to be the CO's spouse than to be the CO.  You give up your identity for that of the command.  You get all the personnel crises and disasters, the rules of conduct are always confusing, you can't send anyone to mast, and they won't let you shoot at anything.  However it's possible that if your spouse's command includes women servicemembers, then you may have a male military spouse in there somewhere who's not sure how welcome he'd be at your command spouse's club functions.  If you reach out to him and find out what he wants to do, and make him welcome, then you'll get a lot of grateful support.

This is a very good point.  One of my good friends from the Navy met her spouse in the Navy.  We were NR, so just a 5 year tour and out.  Her husband is a submariner who did an O-3 shore tour at NR, which is how they met.

She has been saying that this is the "last sea tour" for a few times.  XO tour, then CO tour.  He just finished his 2nd CO tour (bigger boat this time) and is back on shore.  I went to the change in command ceremony when he left his first CO tour, and I heard the stories of all the work she had to do as the CO's wife.  And she was wondering how it was going to work for the new CO, because his wife was a small business owner (new wife) who was not at all interested in the "CO's wife job".

It will be interesting to see if he actually retires after the shore tour.  She really wants to move back to Colorado.  They've been married since the 1990's.  She has her MBA, but hasn't really worked outside the home.  But considering the work involved with 2 kids and being a CO's wife, I can see why.

DH's community is a bit different.  A CO tour of an aviation squadron actually consists of 15 months as XO, and then 15 months as CO.

I have friends doing it now, and the wife has given me a list of gifts I am expected to buy.  It's literally hundreds of dollars, even if I go pretty cheap.  A welcome gift for every new spouse, hostess gift for each monthly meeting host, baby gift for all newborns, birthday gift for every spouse, Christmas gift for every spouse, and then a gift for every incoming CO spouse from all the squadrons on base, as well as a few others.  That alone is just insane.  It's not like that Stateside, but the overseas bases seem to make everything a bigger deal.
.
And the meetings!  She spend ~10+ hours a week going to meetings and functions she's expected to attend.  Crazy.

I plan on teaching English again (loved it last time, and the money is phenomenal) and maybe doing an online graduate program.  And if that means missing the monthly ombudsmen meeting or the CoC for another command on base, so be it. 

DH was at a command for a while where the CO wasn't married.  That just meant the usual COW (yes, that's actually what they are called!) responsibilities when to the XO's wife, so she had to do it all for 30 months, instead of 15.
It's very interesting to read about the differences.  I have a college buddy who is in PCO school at NR.  Now, I've been out long enough that I can't remember if he's heading to be the XO or the CO?  (He's an aviator, and I do remember that reactor officers are nukes and CO's are aviators...).  Anyway, his wife was my roommie in college, so I'm trying to picture her as the CO's wife...
Please forward your buddy my deepest condolences.  You know what he's getting into at NR.

I can't remember whether NR has a PXO course, but I'm sure they wouldn't waste the opportunity.  They might use the same curriculum for both XOs and COs.

He's probably reporting to the carrier as an XO for 12-18 months and then fleeting up to CO.  The aviators have been doing this for decades and my daughter tells me that the surface forces are starting to do it too.  But it hasn't caught on yet in the submarine force...

davisgang90

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2014, 06:56:13 AM »
Nords, The Carrier CO track is about a decade.  Nuc School, XO of carrier, CO of a deep draft then if selected, CO of a carrier.  Quite a bit more sea duty (and math) than this aviator was willing to give.

On an unrelated note, I've been "penciled in" for orders to the Eisenhower School (formerly ICAF) at Ft. McNair as an instructor.  This was my hope, to be an instructor for a couple years and then retire so I am pretty stoked!

Nords

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2014, 01:04:16 PM »
Nords, The Carrier CO track is about a decade.  Nuc School, XO of carrier, CO of a deep draft then if selected, CO of a carrier.  Quite a bit more sea duty (and math) than this aviator was willing to give.
Thanks, I wondered how that was done.  I went through nuclear training with an O-6 aviator, and we ensigns regularly followed him around (like baby ducklings) when he was getting checkouts.  Somehow the enlisted instructors always found time to chat with him.

One of my classmates, Dee Mewbourne, somehow volunteered for three tours as a carrier CO.  The good news is that the system finally noticed and they picked him up for flag (way above zone) just a few months before he hit 30.  I'm glad that guys like him were willing to do work like that.

On an unrelated note, I've been "penciled in" for orders to the Eisenhower School (formerly ICAF) at Ft. McNair as an instructor.  This was my hope, to be an instructor for a couple years and then retire so I am pretty stoked!
Fantastic-- great duty!  Enjoy a victory lap!!

Do you think you're interested in pursuing your PhD?  Lots of pressure in that part of the country to keep serving long after you retire...

davisgang90

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2014, 03:52:00 PM »
The goal is to retire and move to the Pacific Northwest and full on retire.  Maybe some adjunct teaching thing for fun, but live on the pension.  The DC rat race does not appeal to me in the least.

Nords

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2014, 11:31:40 PM »
The goal is to retire and move to the Pacific Northwest and full on retire.  Maybe some adjunct teaching thing for fun, but live on the pension.  The DC rat race does not appeal to me in the least.
Good plan.

Ironically, SECDEF Gates did the same thing to discourage the NSC and the CIA from calling him up for consulting projects.  It seems to be working!

dude

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2014, 08:17:53 AM »
In some ways, growing a ponytail after I retired has made sure that I'm never tempted to dress up in my uniform again.
haha!  Yeah, when I got out after six years, I did the same thing!  I refused to get a haircut for nearly 2 years, and wore a ponytail.  It was my was of re-establishing my autonomy after 6 years of people telling me to cut my hair (I was always stretching the bounds of Navy regs on the hair!).  30 years on now, I sure miss that ponytail, or rather, my hair!!!
When we'd get underway for a 90-day patrol, we'd cut our hair really short (some would even shave their heads) and then hope that it didn't grow out too fast.  (Submarines don't have assigned barbers.  You usually have one guy who knows how to cut hair, and he's not very interested.)  Beards were Navy regulation until the 1980s but even after that reg changed, during patrol you could also make a small donation to the crew's recreation committee and grow a beard (although it had to fit inside the rubber seal of a gas mask).  You had to shave at the end of the patrol (before the bridge hatch was opened).  When you got back to port you were expected to find time within the next 72 hours to get a haircut from the nearest barber or else the XO would make it your new priority.  So I was "trained" pretty early that the uniform regs were more for the taxpayers than for the troops, and I never took the hair parts very seriously. 

When I retired I realized that for over 40 years people had been deciding how long my hair could be, so my last haircut was 30 April 2002.  The ponytail is about a foot long (depends on humidity & curl) but after five years it stopped growing longer.  Maybe that's related to the length/weight of the individual hairs versus strength, or maybe I lose a little every time I get thrashed by a wave.  It sheds a lot.  I've read that guys shed more hair than women but we don't notice because our hair is usually shorter.

I was ready to cut it off about five years ago when I my spouse informed me that she finds it tremendously attractive.  So I guess I've reverted to letting people tell me how long my hair is going to be, but this time it's worth it! 

wow, this thread got me thinking about the Old Man, so I Googled him.  He passed away in 2008 at the ridiculously young age of 66 from pulmonary fibrosis and lung cancer.  Damn.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/pjcoadyjr.htm
This is happening way too often to military retirees in their 50s and mid-60s.  I wonder if we've figured out all of the hazardous materials that we've been exposed to, or if it's just all those years of tobacco.

haha!  Funny about the wife and your hair!

Yeah, I know I was exposed to lots of shit when I was on a ship.  I especially remember being in dry dock in San Pedro, CA for a major overhaul, and they were chipping and grinding and laying down epoxy and such -- while we continued to live on the ship!  I wrote a letter to the aforementioned C.O., telling him that I thought it was pretty egregious that the finest all-volunteer force in the world was being forced to live under worse conditions than the muggers, thieves and rapists populating our nation's prisons -- and you know what?  Sonofabitch, it worked!  The Old Man moved us all off the ship and into barracks on the base for the duration of the overhaul!  Also, re: smoking.  When we commissioned the good ship U.S.S. Antietam (CG-54) in 1987, smoking was allowed everywhere on the ship.  Guys would wake up in the berthing compartments and light up before their fucking feet hit the deck.  I HATED it!  So I bitched about it to the Captain (same guy).  Not two months later, smoking was banned on the entire ship save for two designated areas -- the fantail, and one lounge area.  Man, what a difference it made in the quality of life on board.  Probably two significant reasons (among many others) why I really loved that Old Man.

But hell yeah, I often wonder about the shit I was exposed to not only on the ship, but in the shipyard when they were building her and I was on board doing QA stuff every day for 10 months.  But then again, that shit probably pales in comparison to what I was exposed to at "Ground Zero" on 9/11 and thereafter.  Ugh.

Villanelle

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2014, 08:27:18 AM »
Husband flew Humanitarian ops in Japan after the quake and wore a radiation monitor for a while.  The monitor apparently showed that he stayed within safe exposure levels, whatever that means.  I definitely worry about what long term consequences might be in store.


austin

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Re: The military version of "Just one more year"...
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2014, 04:18:00 PM »
I just submitted my UQR this week. I now have 9 months to find a job that will keep me on track for my savings goals. This is exciting.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!