Author Topic: Immutable laws of money  (Read 9220 times)

AdrianM

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Immutable laws of money
« on: February 12, 2013, 04:15:58 AM »
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/lance-roberts/immutable-laws-of-money

My favourite is 8) A Wad In Your Pocket Is Better Than Your Pants In Wad

sherr

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2013, 06:56:30 AM »
Mostly good advice, but "The first step in becoming wealthy is to quit using credit cards – of any type, for any reason" is just wrong and sad.

Credit cards can be a wonderful tool as long as they are used responsibly. If you are giving people tips on how to use their money responsibly then that should include credit cards.

RoseRelish

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2013, 07:29:26 AM »
Pretty sound advice. I find it sad that these tips aren't common knowledge.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 09:31:52 AM »
Mostly good advice, but "The first step in becoming wealthy is to quit using credit cards – of any type, for any reason" is just wrong and sad.

Credit cards can be a wonderful tool as long as they are used responsibly. If you are giving people tips on how to use their money responsibly then that should include credit cards.


I wouldn't be able to survive without my credit card.  The thought of carrying cash and not having an automatic record would drive me nuts just like when I have to write a check for something instead of using online billpay.   No thanks - I will keep using the card.

Jack

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 10:57:29 AM »
Mostly good advice, but "The first step in becoming wealthy is to quit using credit cards – of any type, for any reason" is just wrong and sad.

Credit cards can be a wonderful tool as long as they are used responsibly. If you are giving people tips on how to use their money responsibly then that should include credit cards.

This is a "know your audience" issue. If the folks you're writing for are irresponsible, then it's a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

sherr

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2013, 11:36:39 AM »
Mostly good advice, but "The first step in becoming wealthy is to quit using credit cards – of any type, for any reason" is just wrong and sad.

Credit cards can be a wonderful tool as long as they are used responsibly. If you are giving people tips on how to use their money responsibly then that should include credit cards.

This is a "know your audience" issue. If the folks you're writing for are irresponsible, then it's a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

I understand the argument, but I disagree. The point of articles like this is to teach people how to be responsible with their money. Teaching people to be responsible with their money while simultaneously assuming that they will continue being irresponsible with their money is nonsensical.

You cannot in one article teach people the tried and true basics of money management like (my numbers do not match up to the article's numbers):
1) spend less than you owe
2) bugdet
3) understand that wants != needs
4) save 40% of your income (some people on this forum could beat that, but it's certainly a good starting place)
5) avoid unnecessary debt, especially at high interest rates
6) avoid buying a house that is too expensive for your needs
7) learn to enjoy free things and live frugally
8) money can't buy happiness
9) avoid lifestyle inflation
etc.

and then randomly in the middle throw in "credit cards are evil and you should never have them ever for any reason." The former are all sound money / lifestyle management advice, the latter is not. The credit card point *should* be "learn to use credit cards responsibly, including not buying things you don't need and paying off your balance every month."

Or the author could just assume his audience is a pathetic and hopeless mass of dolts who can't possibly learn to responsibly control themselves, in which case his credit card advice can stay but the rest of the article would have to go.

This guy's basically quoting Dave Ramsey verbatim for most of the article anyway. Too bad he couldn't have improved on ol'Dave by keeping the good parts and throwing out the stupid parts.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 11:39:40 AM by sherr »

Jamesqf

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2013, 12:02:10 PM »
The one that really got me was
Quote
10) You are using your credit card to buy necessities like food or gasoline.

Forget the 2% cash back I get on groceries, or the 3-5% (depending on which card is offering what promotion this quarter), the question here is how the heck you buy gas without a card?  Does the writer live in Oregon?  (Where normal gas stations are illegal.)  Does he expect an attendant to come running up, pump your gas, take your cash money, and come running back with the change?  Sorry, but out here in the real world, you stick your card in the reader, maybe enter your zip code, and pump.

destron

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2013, 12:20:14 PM »
The one that really got me was
Quote
10) You are using your credit card to buy necessities like food or gasoline.

Forget the 2% cash back I get on groceries, or the 3-5% (depending on which card is offering what promotion this quarter), the question here is how the heck you buy gas without a card?

You can buy gas with cash in CA. Can you not pay with cash where you live? What do poor people do?

kisserofsinners

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 12:55:13 PM »
The one that really got me was
Quote
10) You are using your credit card to buy necessities like food or gasoline.

Forget the 2% cash back I get on groceries, or the 3-5% (depending on which card is offering what promotion this quarter), the question here is how the heck you buy gas without a card?  Does the writer live in Oregon?  (Where normal gas stations are illegal.)  Does he expect an attendant to come running up, pump your gas, take your cash money, and come running back with the change?  Sorry, but out here in the real world, you stick your card in the reader, maybe enter your zip code, and pump.

Everywhere takes cash. In CA some stations will even have a CC price that is a little higher than the cash price.

unitsinc

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 01:50:20 PM »
The one that really got me was
Quote
10) You are using your credit card to buy necessities like food or gasoline.

Forget the 2% cash back I get on groceries, or the 3-5% (depending on which card is offering what promotion this quarter), the question here is how the heck you buy gas without a card?  Does the writer live in Oregon?  (Where normal gas stations are illegal.)  Does he expect an attendant to come running up, pump your gas, take your cash money, and come running back with the change?  Sorry, but out here in the real world, you stick your card in the reader, maybe enter your zip code, and pump.

O_o I think you need to get out a bit more.
I've never ever seen a place that doesn't take cash. The only exception I've seen is if it's late and the store is closed.

dragoncar

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 03:32:32 PM »
Sorry, but out here in the real world, you stick your card in the reader, maybe enter your zip code, and pump.

You go in, hand them $20 (or whatever) and say $20 on pump 5.  It's not rocket science. 

grantmeaname

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 06:05:08 PM »
I understand the argument, but I disagree. The point of articles like this is to teach people how to be responsible with their money. Teaching people to be responsible with their money while simultaneously assuming that they will continue being irresponsible with their money is nonsensical.
You should drop whatever you're doing and go read Bad Money Advice. The blogger is continually writing based on this theme, and I think it would really resonate with you.

Jamesqf

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2013, 08:17:57 PM »
Amazing, how many people can't seem to recognize sarcasm when they read it :-)

You go in, hand them $20 (or whatever) and say $20 on pump 5.  It's not rocket science.

Sure, you can do that, but how much of your time will you waste that way, over the course of a lifetime?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 08:24:37 PM by Jamesqf »

dragoncar

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2013, 10:59:27 PM »
Amazing, how many people can't seem to recognize sarcasm when they read it :-)

You go in, hand them $20 (or whatever) and say $20 on pump 5.  It's not rocket science.

Sure, you can do that, but how much of your time will you waste that way, over the course of a lifetime?

None, because I'm already going in to buy cigarettes and beer!

grantmeaname

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2013, 05:14:35 AM »
But what will you eat for dinner?

I'm sure you meant to say cigarettes, beer, the roller grill special, and Combos.

sherr

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2013, 06:22:29 AM »
I understand the argument, but I disagree. The point of articles like this is to teach people how to be responsible with their money. Teaching people to be responsible with their money while simultaneously assuming that they will continue being irresponsible with their money is nonsensical.
You should drop whatever you're doing and go read Bad Money Advice. The blogger is continually writing based on this theme, and I think it would really resonate with you.

Thanks, I've already read it, and yes it does resonate with me.  :)

I'm just sad that he only blogs when unemployed.

Alan2

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2013, 06:26:29 AM »
Quote
the question here is how the heck you buy gas without a [credit] card?

Don't you have Debit Cards in the USA?  (That's a genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarcastic.)

grantmeaname

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2013, 06:30:08 AM »
Yes, we do.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2013, 07:22:26 AM »
Quote
the question here is how the heck you buy gas without a [credit] card?

Don't you have Debit Cards in the USA?  (That's a genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarcastic.)


Yes but credit cards are superior simply due to potential fraud - while both debit and credit cards typically afford similar fraud protection/reimbursement the process can take a while and debit cards come out of your account and for some that can cause financial issues (lack of cash, late payments, bounced checks, etc) and for others it is just headache that needs constant following up.  When it is on the credit card it is the banks money and no impact to you. 

If you can get one always use a credit card over a debit card.

destron

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2013, 07:35:33 AM »
Amazing, how many people can't seem to recognize sarcasm when they read it :-)

You go in, hand them $20 (or whatever) and say $20 on pump 5.  It's not rocket science.

Sure, you can do that, but how much of your time will you waste that way, over the course of a lifetime?

Not much because, as mustachians, we don't have to fill up our gas tanks very often!

dragoncar

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2013, 10:37:08 AM »
But what will you eat for dinner?

I'm sure you meant to say cigarettes, beer, the roller grill special, and Combos.

Not to mention the Lotto scratchers so I can pay for it all

Jamesqf

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2013, 11:25:54 AM »
Quote
the question here is how the heck you buy gas without a [credit] card?

Don't you have Debit Cards in the USA?  (That's a genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarcastic.)

Sure, but what exactly is the difference in this context?  (Other than that if I pay by credit card, I'm getting an interest-free loan for around 45 days.)

Not much because, as mustachians, we don't have to fill up our gas tanks very often!

But in the interests of getting better mileage, I tend to fill my tank only to about half, as that saves an extra 30-40 lbs of dead weight.  Of course I drive an Insight, and can go about 350 miles on the 5 gallons in my half tank :-)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 11:31:38 AM by Jamesqf »

grantmeaname

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2013, 12:06:39 PM »
Sure, but what exactly is the difference in this context?  (Other than that if I pay by credit card, I'm getting an interest-free loan for around 45 days.)
Lance Roberts doesn't think debit cards are evil?

nolajo

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2013, 02:26:33 PM »
Quote
the question here is how the heck you buy gas without a [credit] card?

Don't you have Debit Cards in the USA?  (That's a genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarcastic.)

The other problem with paying by debit card at the pump is that the machine usually checks to make sure you have a fair bit of money available (much the same as a restaurant checks to make sure you'd be authorized for the meal + a tip). Since I don't keep much money in my checking account - under $100 usually - my debit card is usually denied at the pump. The store needs to make sure that I can fill up my hypothetical F350 along with canisters of gas for my ride-on lawn mower, etc.

N.B. I keep the checking account so low because debit cards here are totally capable of being run the way a credit card would ie you swipe and sign instead of having to enter a PIN the way most European debit cards work. Since store clerks rarely ask for ID with a card, there's some chance of fraud and it's much more of a pain to deal with when it's your money that has already been spent rather than a credit card company's.

Undecided

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Re: Immutable laws of money
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2013, 10:42:29 PM »
Amazing, how many people can't seem to recognize sarcasm when they read it :-)

You go in, hand them $20 (or whatever) and say $20 on pump 5.  It's not rocket science.

Sure, you can do that, but how much of your time will you waste that way, over the course of a lifetime?

In Oregon, probably none, since you can't pump the gas yourself and it takes less time to pay than for the attendant to finish pumping. But if you have a small child in the car, you pay with a cc anyway.