Author Topic: ode to a minivan  (Read 18156 times)

solon

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ode to a minivan
« on: March 31, 2016, 01:35:24 PM »
This guy makes owning a minivan fun! He has mustachianism seeping from every pore. I laughed all the way through.

http://jalopnik.com/if-youre-a-real-grown-up-minivans-are-cooler-than-cros-1764226230

gimp

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 10:27:01 PM »
SUVs, for most people, are just "cool" minivans.

But that doesn't make a minivan cool... I pity anyone who needs one. Seems like a hard life to live.

HenryDavid

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 05:05:59 PM »
These things are cheap! Only imperfect thing about 'em is fuel consumption. But that's still better than trucks.
When Tesla makes one that will be nice.
We have one that we drive for work stuff and some recreation. In winter, you can change in that thing comfortably after snow activities then eat a nice hot picnic lunch. Bikes roll in there with both wheels on --we have one seat removed. Big old sheepdog used to love the space, when he was living. Take stuff to the dump, pick up free firewood. All easy to do. Cheap to buy, insure and run.
Think of it as "stealth cool". Cool on the inside, uncool outside. But those who know . . . know.

BurtMacklin

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 05:24:10 PM »
We love our minivan, very practical. I thought the article was great.

Papa bear

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2016, 06:25:03 PM »
BRAVO!!!!!!  BRAVO!!!!!!  BRAVO!!!!!! 


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ender

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2016, 06:46:41 AM »
These things are cheap! Only imperfect thing about 'em is fuel consumption. But that's still better than trucks.

Many of the newer-ish ones get high 20s or even low 30s for gas mileage.

clarkfan1979

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 02:35:47 AM »
I enjoyed the article. When it comes to cars, I am practical to a fault. I could care less about the image. Actually, that's not totally true. I do like driving in stealth mode. I like driving a piece of shit car so people won't ask me for money.

However, over the years I did take notice over the stigma of minivans. It's pretty strong and people do talk shit about them. Because I don't really give a shit, I wonder why minivans have the negative stigma and not another vehicle?

 

HenryDavid

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2016, 12:13:58 PM »
The negative stigma comes from adolescent-minded people.
You know, as in, "sure it's winter but I am too cool to wear a coat. Cuz I just rock so hard that I can't feel the cold."
Teenagers were like that in the 1970s and it continues today.
Dissing minivans (or cheap little hatchbacks which are even smarter) is like "I have so much cash to burn and I am so concerned with your opinion about me that I will work many years longer in order to impress you with this lower, pointier, less practical automobile. Or this tall, heavier, asinine-looking box of a truck. My slave-like addiction to convention, and failure to think for myself, proves that I am actually a badass. Check me out!"

Also your anti-minivan person says "I need to have this sexy/costly vehicle because I truly appreciate the fine points of a quality driving experience."
Which is silly because 90% of regular driving is idling at lights, negotiating traffic and parking lots.
The "Born to be Wild" moments are infrequent for most drivers.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2016, 08:55:51 AM »
SUVs, for most people, are just "cool" minivans.

But that doesn't make a minivan cool... I pity anyone who needs one. Seems like a hard life to live.


I'm actually trying to figure out how much mulch our minivan would fit when I collapse all the seats and put up a tarp.  There's so much freakin' cargo room in that thing.  The trickiest part is not getting it dirty and upsetting DW...

I drove my parents' minivan to prom--it was a triple date!

ender

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2016, 01:44:06 PM »
I'm actually trying to figure out how much mulch our minivan would fit when I collapse all the seats and put up a tarp.  There's so much freakin' cargo room in that thing.  The trickiest part is not getting it dirty and upsetting DW...

I drove my parents' minivan to prom--it was a triple date!

My inlaws have an F150 and a minivan.  Guess which fit a fullsize couch entirely inside ;-)

Though, the minivan doesn't haul dead animals the same as a truck bed does...

bobechs

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2016, 01:54:57 PM »
I'm actually trying to figure out how much mulch our minivan would fit when I collapse all the seats and put up a tarp.  There's so much freakin' cargo room in that thing.  The trickiest part is not getting it dirty and upsetting DW...

I drove my parents' minivan to prom--it was a triple date!

My inlaws have an F150 and a minivan.  Guess which fit a fullsize couch entirely inside ;-)

Though, the minivan doesn't haul dead animals the same as a truck bed does...

Pro tip:  don't kill the animals until you get where you are going



greaper007

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2016, 09:17:20 AM »
I can do everything with my minivan that "I" would do with a truck (once I added a tow hitch and roof rack), and I can fit seven people inside comfortably.    Notice I said I, not everyone, but most people will rarely if ever need a towing capacity that exceeds 3,500 lbs and a harbor freight trailer.    Then again, I don't really get why some people need to take their houses along with them camping (or atv's or dirt bikes).

With a trailer or cargo carrier you can easily haul a deer carcass by the way.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2016, 01:58:03 PM »
My wife and I went 18 months as a single compact car family. This spring, entering our third month of stretching the laws of physics by cramming three car seats betwixt the rear doors (and magically having them shut!) we finally accepted that a larger vehicle was a reasonable purchase. Enter the Mazda 5, smallest car on the market with 3rd row seating. It's basically a mini-minivan. And we love it. SUVs are preposterously impractical for almost any normal use. Thanks for the article, I got a kick out of it!

zolotiyeruki

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2016, 10:13:33 PM »
I can do everything with my minivan that "I" would do with a truck (once I added a tow hitch and roof rack), and I can fit seven people inside comfortably.    Notice I said I, not everyone, but most people will rarely if ever need a towing capacity that exceeds 3,500 lbs and a harbor freight trailer.    Then again, I don't really get why some people need to take their houses along with them camping (or atv's or dirt bikes).

With a trailer or cargo carrier you can easily haul a deer carcass by the way.
I realized something that I'd *like* to do, but can't with my minivan--easily accept a load of dirt or mulch.  While I can put up tarps inside to keep it clean, you can't fit the tractor bucket in there to dump it :(

greaper007

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2016, 09:04:02 AM »
I can do everything with my minivan that "I" would do with a truck (once I added a tow hitch and roof rack), and I can fit seven people inside comfortably.    Notice I said I, not everyone, but most people will rarely if ever need a towing capacity that exceeds 3,500 lbs and a harbor freight trailer.    Then again, I don't really get why some people need to take their houses along with them camping (or atv's or dirt bikes).

With a trailer or cargo carrier you can easily haul a deer carcass by the way.
I realized something that I'd *like* to do, but can't with my minivan--easily accept a load of dirt or mulch.  While I can put up tarps inside to keep it clean, you can't fit the tractor bucket in there to dump it :(

Sure you can, you're just a tow hitch and trailer away.    Last summer I probably hauled 30 yards of  mulch in my cheap trailer, plus sand, construction supplies and 12 ft pieces of lumber.   Prior to this, I put mulch inside the van, but even with a tarp there was dirt and dust everywhere.

With a small trailer you have the convenience of a pickup truck for the dozen times a year that you need it, but the rest of the time you have a functional vehicle with lots of room for people or things.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2016, 10:32:08 AM »

Sure you can, you're just a tow hitch and trailer away.    Last summer I probably hauled 30 yards of  mulch in my cheap trailer, plus sand, construction supplies and 12 ft pieces of lumber.   Prior to this, I put mulch inside the van, but even with a tarp there was dirt and dust everywhere.

With a small trailer you have the convenience of a pickup truck for the dozen times a year that you need it, but the rest of the time you have a functional vehicle with lots of room for people or things.
Funny you should mention that--after writing that, I started researching towing with our minivan.  The problem is that by the time you're done, it's several hundred dollars.  Between the hitch, the wiring harness, buying (and then registering) the trailer (and having a place to keep it), and (optionally) the transmission cooler, it's not a cheap proposition. Even though I really would like one.  I found out that our village has a huuuuuge mulch pile, free to anyone who wants to drive up and load it up.  That's where they've been putting the remains of the ash trees that have been infested the last several years.

robartsd

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2016, 10:58:51 AM »
Funny you should mention that--after writing that, I started researching towing with our minivan.  The problem is that by the time you're done, it's several hundred dollars.  Between the hitch, the wiring harness, buying (and then registering) the trailer (and having a place to keep it), and (optionally) the transmission cooler, it's not a cheap proposition. Even though I really would like one.  I found out that our village has a huuuuuge mulch pile, free to anyone who wants to drive up and load it up.  That's where they've been putting the remains of the ash trees that have been infested the last several years.
Several hundred dollars more than not having capability to accept tractor bucket loads of material. I suppose for some people a beater pickup is the better option (because they don't get much utility from the rear passenger space of the minivan). I'm pretty sure a minivan with a trailer is much cheaper than a king-cab pickup. If you're only towing occasionally: outfit with a hitch, tie in to the rear lights, and rent a U-haul trailer.

daverobev

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2016, 11:24:12 AM »
If only they came in manual transmission in North America.

And were cheap. I mean, a new Dodge Grand Caravan basic trim is $20k CAD on sale I think. Used ones tend to be trashed. Honda and Toyota ones don't depreciate.

And the rust, oh the rust.

People who 'accept' driving a minivan (and honestly I don't buy the 'people are ashamed' - Grand Caravans are one of the most common vehicles on the road here, after Honda Civics and all manner of Hyundais... and trucks, of course) tend to make full use of them. Which is fine, but it does make buying a second hand one... dicey.

Plus they seem to have issues. Hondas have iffy transmissions; Dodges are just, er, dodgy. Toyotas are supposed to be great, but again, resale is insanely high.

Not sure about Kias. I know the Mazda 5 has fewer rust issues than the 3, and it CAN be had in manual, but has suspension issues.

undercover

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2016, 12:13:26 PM »
If only they came in manual transmission in North America.

Who the hell would want a minivan with a manual transmission?

robartsd

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2016, 12:21:00 PM »
If only they came in manual transmission in North America.
This will be the biggest disappointment to me if a vehicle this size ever becomes worthwhile to me.

And were cheap. I mean, a new Dodge Grand Caravan basic trim is $20k CAD on sale I think. Used ones tend to be trashed. Honda and Toyota ones don't depreciate.
I think this is an unfortunate side effect of most people purchasing them as a practical vehicle. Still tend to be cheaper than other vehicles with similar capacity.

daverobev

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2016, 12:39:09 PM »
If only they came in manual transmission in North America.

Who the hell would want a minivan with a manual transmission?

Who the hell wants to drive an auto anything?

Look, it's what you're used to - I'm British, I like manual. BUT, the issue with autos is, especially with minivans, they seem to be under-spec.

Dodge transmissions are known to be junky. Manual? Just replace the clutch, eventually, maybe. Auto? Uhhhhhhh - you're screwed, rebuilding it costs more than the car is worth. No transmission flushes, no extra radiator required for towing.

UnleashHell

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2016, 12:45:50 PM »


Who the hell wants to drive an auto anything?



Me. and I'm British too.


 when you have issues with your left knee (from years of playing rugby) then it makes life a lot easier. and safer.

 

greaper007

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2016, 02:32:19 PM »
I prefer the simplicity of a manual also, one less expensive system that can break.    Though the clutchless automatic(or whatever the hell they call it) in my Sienna does work well for mountain driving, I'm always concerned about how much damage the transmission is enduring after a long descent. 

For the record, I'm on my second Sienna now.   The first was a 2000 purchased 3 years ago with 138,000 miles, she was a fantastic car until someone ran a red in front of us over thanksgiving.    Not that much damage, but they totaled it because of the age.     I'm currently on a 2011 that's heads and shoulders better than the 2000.    I plan to get ~350,000 miles out of this one.   

I find that used Toyotas are fine to buy used as long as you really look at them.    This one had 118,000 miles, but was owned by a window salesman that never even used the back seats.   All highway miles and none of the usual kid wear and tear.    It's easy to tell if someone took care of a vehicle or not, if they did I'd trust a Toyota for more than 300,000.

LiveLean

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2016, 04:20:40 PM »
I have been into stand-up paddleboarding since 2010, long before every freakin' marketer decided to use SUP in ads. (Take a look at a recent copy of Outside and you'll see 6-8 ads for various products featuring SUP).

I mention this because there is no more practical vehicle for transporting and loading/unloading 1-3 SUPs than a minivan. I've seen people in assclown pick-up trucks and Jeep Wranglers have to construct hideous and pricey racks to make it work.

When you have the SUP pads on the crossbars of your minivan roof rack -- which is standard equipment on most vans; I always laugh at people who paid $40K for their Honda Odysseys but didn't spring for the roof rack -- it looks pretty badass and makes your van easier to find in parking lots.

I'm on my third Town & County. And while on some level I agree that nobody should own three Town & Countrys in one lifetime, let alone before one's 45th birthday, there is no better car when you have kids. Plus the T&C seats fold into the floor in five seconds, giving you all the benefits of a cargo van. Far more practical than a Surburban or whatever for half the price.

I had my first Town&Country for 8 years and 100K-plus miles. Traded it in for another, which I drove 38K miles in just 20 months before a careless distracted driver t-boned me, totaling the van. So now we're on No.3.

Even new, a T&C is half the price of assclown SUVs and pickups -- and much more practical and cheaper to fuel.

Dicey

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2016, 05:16:23 PM »
Lol, we just bought a new (to us) Toyota Venza. My minivan was my third and my pre-FIRE former company car. It's a 2007 Dodge Grand Caravan with 138k miles on it. Since we bought the Toyota, we used the van on a long haul trip where we needed to transport paint and ladders and such. Yesterday, I hosted an event for 75 people. I realized as I was prepping that it wasn't all gonna fit in the Toyota, so I loaded up the van. Not unhappy with the Venza, as its a lot more comfortable to drive, but man, I'm going to miss the van when it's gone.

daverobev

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2016, 06:16:02 PM »


Who the hell wants to drive an auto anything?



Me. and I'm British too.


 when you have issues with your left knee (from years of playing rugby) then it makes life a lot easier. and safer.

Ah.. that's fine, I'm not trying to deny you the option of buying auto, I'd just prefer it if you could get manual on more cars over here.

On the positive side, because nobody can/wants to drive manual, they are often cheap - when you can get them.

But in terms of minivans, vans, and even trucks now... or anything midrange-but-not-enthusiast.. there is simply not a manual transmission version available here.

greaper007

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2016, 08:24:14 PM »
My dream minivan would have a manual AND a diesel.    I see diesel powered minivans in Europe all the time, I don't get why we can't buy them here.

UnleashHell

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2016, 11:14:41 AM »


Who the hell wants to drive an auto anything?



Me. and I'm British too.


 when you have issues with your left knee (from years of playing rugby) then it makes life a lot easier. and safer.

Ah.. that's fine, I'm not trying to deny you the option of buying auto, I'd just prefer it if you could get manual on more cars over here.

On the positive side, because nobody can/wants to drive manual, they are often cheap - when you can get them.

But in terms of minivans, vans, and even trucks now... or anything midrange-but-not-enthusiast.. there is simply not a manual transmission version available here.


I now live in Florida and it has to be said that driving anything here is never gonna match the fun of driving a manual MGB GT or an early Golf GTI around the hills in the cotswolds!!  Even without the knee issues then an auto is just way easier in the stop and go, straight line traffic, that is my life....

mm1970

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2016, 04:10:52 PM »
SUVs, for most people, are just "cool" minivans.

But that doesn't make a minivan cool... I pity anyone who needs one. Seems like a hard life to live.
Serious?  Not serious?

I mean, I agree that people who drive SUVs and wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan are just fooling themselves.  Really, you are so much cooler now?  Hardly.  I see a lot of crossovers and SUVs at the PTA.

As far as pitying people who need one - in my world, that means people with 3 or more children.  So maybe I'd agree with you there.  Boy I'd LOVE a minivan more than anything.  But I've got 2 kids.  The matrix and civic work just fine.

daverobev

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2016, 05:15:51 PM »
Question for those with minivans - which have you found to be reliable?

I'm really torn (I want one initially as a mini-camper) in that the Dodge Caravan seems to have all sorts of perpetual issues, the scariest being transmission stuff - but it is dirt cheap and available. I've heard that the Chevy ones are not great (weak trans); Honda ones are more expensive but also have a weak trans; the only ones with a good trans are the Toyotas, and the prices for them is crazy.

The one I haven't heard anything, good or bad, about is the Kia one.

I'm thinking a Dodge is probably the way to go ("CVP" ones can be had new for $20k in Canada; so even a 3 year old one is not too bad, and 10 year old ones are like $5k - CAD, mind, not USD - and they are everywhere) - and just deal with the dodgy brakes on the newer ones (replace with good quality), and budget for a transmission rebuild... But if the Kia is good, I'd go that way.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2016, 06:16:34 AM »
The Hondas with the bad transmissions were back in '99-03 or so. That's not an issue since then, as far as I know. We had an '01 on which we had to replace the transmission, and it was fine after that. We later got an '06 (for the 8th seat), and love it.

daverobev

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2016, 07:16:31 AM »
The Hondas with the bad transmissions were back in '99-03 or so. That's not an issue since then, as far as I know. We had an '01 on which we had to replace the transmission, and it was fine after that. We later got an '06 (for the 8th seat), and love it.

Thanks.. http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Odyssey/ doesn't corroborate though.

Dicey

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2016, 05:50:25 PM »
I've had 2 Dodge Grand Caravan SXTs as company cars. First was a 2006. When it was time to turn it in, my sister bought it dirt cheap. It's still going strong with 206k miles. My second one is a 2007 version of the same vehicle.When I found out my new vehicle would not be equipped with magic doors, I had them pull a manager's car with low miles from the fleet. I don't like it quite as well as the '06, but it's mainly hair splitting. The year before I FIREd, the company pulled the car program. I bought it out in late 2011 for $6700. It now has 134k miles.

No tranny issues with either car, but each has needed a new radiator, which DH did. Both have had minor electrical issues with the magic doors, and DH to the rescue again. Anything else done to either car has been completely in line with age and mileage.

The Caravans ride comfortably and haul metric craptons of humans and stuff. They have been great cars. Oh, the '07 consumes more oil than the '06. I have to add a quart about every 1.5K miles. No smoke or dripping, just needs to be watched. Nothing seems to be broke, so I ain't a-fixin' it.

Updated 5/8/16 to add: Sold it yesterday for $3300, just by parking it with a sign on it. After paying $6700 in 2011, I drove it for work for one more year, so gas allowance + mileage. After FIRE, about half of the miles were business related (travel to/from rental properties), so tax deductible mileage. If I was more motivated, I'd run the numbers and discover that it was virtually free to own and operate over the last five years. Now that's a minivan worthy of an ode! Sniff, I'll miss my big, blue beast.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 08:14:59 AM by Diane C »

The Happy Philosopher

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2016, 10:04:34 AM »
Real men drive minivans.

Of all the vehicles I've owned, my Sienna has been my favorite.

tobitonic

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2016, 07:02:18 PM »
The Hondas with the bad transmissions were back in '99-03 or so. That's not an issue since then, as far as I know. We had an '01 on which we had to replace the transmission, and it was fine after that. We later got an '06 (for the 8th seat), and love it.

Thanks.. http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Odyssey/ doesn't corroborate though.

Car complaints sources from NHTSA complaints, and the majority of the transmission complaints are, as zolotiyeruki stated, from the part of the gen where Honda made bad transmissions. Do more research, and you'll see that Honda changed the transmission during '04, and then beefed it up again in '07. It's not as strong as the transmission in the Sienna of those years (or that now), but it's more than reliable enough. Basically, if you're serious about a minivan, the best used options are the Sienna and the Odyssey, with the Sedona coming in at a distant third. By serious, I'm implying you want one with the highest odds of reliability and longevity, with the fewest random annoying or catastrophically failing issues. If you're simply looking to spend the least money on cost of purchase while rolling the dice that it's not going to come back and bite you, then yeah, you're looking for one of the other manufacturers.

For the record, we own both a Sienna (mine) and an Odyssey (hers), and are planning on driving them for many years to come. They're like fridges on wheels--rock solid reliable.

SeaEhm

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2016, 10:50:54 AM »
Real men drive minivans.

Of all the vehicles I've owned, my Sienna has been my favorite.

I am not sure why people look down upon minivans.  I think they are awesome, comfortable, and are very versatile if you need to transport items. 

solon

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Re: ode to a minivan
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2016, 11:07:19 AM »