Ciao Italian mustachians. I'm not Italian but live in Italy. As you say, salaries are low and taxes are a killer here. I'm surprised that one of you said upthread that healthcare is free where you live in Italy. I know this varies by region but in my region healthcare is only free if you are 'esente'. When I go to a specialist or take my kids to a specialist I usually have to pay quite a high "ticket" (somewhere between 30 euro and 80 euro). And often there are no appointments available through CUP so we end up going intramoenia - my daughter's specialist doctor charges 120 euro for this! So our family of 4 ends up paying quite high health care costs. Not as high as the US but pretty high considering the amount of tax we pay here.
I'm wondering what you all think about a seconda casa as an investment (rented out on Airbnb or some other way)? We already own a prima casa but have enough for a down payment on a very small seconda casa in the city where we live. Or can you recommend other good places (similar to Vanguard) to invest locally?
BTW complimenti for your English.
Ciao,
and nice to meet you.
You're right, healthcare is not completely free. You're also right that lot of people need or choose to consult a private practice to avoid the long queues of the public service, but I'd still consider healthcare quite cheap - especially compared against US.
You get free access to a "medico di base" for all basic needs and all life-savings treatments and cures you receive in the hospital are usually free or extremely cheap. You don't get broke to fight cancer.
But I'm biased since I live in Lombardia which is usually reported to be on the efficient side of Italy.
What bothers me even more than taxes here is usually bureaucracy. There's a lot of paperwork for everything and when you have to deal with public offices you have the feeling that there's some sort of presumption of guilty.
Just as an example: I got fined because of a mistake in the tax reports. The fact was the mistake wasn't there, and my accountant was able to demonstrate it and the fine was ultimately waved. But,I had to pay for the extra work my accountant had to do in order to get the fine waved. So, because of a mistake of the tax collector I ended up paying anyway.
On the bright side, I still love too much this country and my town to even consider leaving.
As per your questions:
- I think that if there's a good time to buy a second house is now. Rates are down and mortgage are quite cheap. But also consider the hurdles: everything is more expensive for a "seconda casa": taxes, mortgages and usually even utilities are higher. I'm not familiar with Airbnb on the guest side and how that could or should work with italian taxes - so I'm not able to give a good suggestion here. But I know Simone, another MMM reader is also looking at that type of investment. I don't know how to mention people on this forum, but will send him a DM to this conversation
- Unfortunately there's nothing like Vanguard in Italy. Best option imo is to buy etfs. You can get the Vanguard ones quoted on Amsterdam' stock exchange (a bit more expensive than the us ones, but still cheap and still UCITS compliant for taxation) if your broker allows and doesn't charge an extra for trading on that stock exchange. If you prefer something quoted on the italian stock market or accumulating ETFs I'd suggest iShares ETFs, they are usually the cheapest and are big fund with good liquidity. I'd go with SWDA which is the msci world and you may also a bit of EIMI (emerging markets) if you're ok with a bit more risk or some bonds etf (like EMG) if you prefer that.
As a broker I'd suggest Fineco. It's a good, cheap bank overall and it also includes the "deposito titoli" to hold the etfs. Regular operations are not very cheap, but they offer a service called "Replay" where you basically create your ideal portfolio selecting one or more etfs and they'll buy a quote of every etf every months (you decide how much to invest).
This service is quite cheap, and if you invest some money every month this is a very good solution because it is automated forcing you to save and saving you from bad decisions. If you chose more than one etf it also has an option keep the portfolio balanced, so every month it will buy different amounts of etfs to keep the overall portfolio at the proportions you have set.
I also keep some money in deposits (conto deposito) they don't provide good return at the moment, but should protect from inflations and the capital is guaranteed: they serve as a good short term park for the money. For this I use Rendimax and last time I checked they were still offering the best rates (although they have been recently lowered)
Hope to hear more from you.
Bye
ps: thanks for the compliment. I work remotely for a foreign company so I get to exercise my English every day