Mustachian Web Tools: Mint.com

[arebelspy]

Mint.com is another great Mustachian web tool.  It helps you track all of your various accounts and spending.  The great part is it is fully automated with purchases categorized for you, so it only needs checking and minor tweaks.  It has wonderful graphs that can show trends of where your money is going.

https://www.mint.com/

It has been previously discussed in an MMM article here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/12/12/watching-your-stash-with-mint/

But I wanted to start a thread about it to introduce any new members to this amazing tool, or anyone who has meant to try it out but hasn't got around to it, or anyone who missed the article.

Mint.com is a great Mustachian tool.

I have no affiliation with this website, other than being a satisfied user.

Enjoy!

[MEJG]

+1

I got started with Mint because of the MMM article and I love it!!!  The only thing I haven't been able to figure out how to do it make my budgeting work the way I want it.....  I'd like restaurants and groceries to be the same tag for instance.

[Mike Key]

I've been using Mint for a few years now before Intuit bought them, back when the launched with public beta. Love the site. Great tool. Just wish they'd build in more of an investment side. Right now it's slightly lacking.


And some of their recommendations are purely to make money and not honestly in my best interest, and annoying frankly because they can't take everything into account when making recommendations. Like recommending me car insurance companies who I already know can't offer me a better rate, even though it keeps telling me I could save X amount. No Mint, No I will not save with them, I have a lousy driving record. lol

[j3000]

I got Mint just before I became interested in the topic of early retirement this year and found ERE/MMM, and it certainly helped me tighten up just from seeing the big picture and tracking literally every cent of my spending each month. 

Unfortunately lately I've been having a lot of random issues with it, such as banks not updating with new accounts, budget numbers not reporting negative numbers (meaning I spent under what I budgeted for in the previous month which rolled over), accounts not being able to update, etc.  I can function without it working perfectly because ultimately my spending and such is up to me to track, but it stinks to have such a potentially powerful tool constantly fail with seemingly a new problem every month, and the customer service has never been able to really help me.  Still, pretty useful especially for a Mustachian and hopefully all the little bugs will be worked out in the near future.

@MEJG:  I think if you make a budget category for "Food & Dining" it should catch all the transactions marked as Groceries and Restaurants into a single budget item, since they are both sub-categories of that parent category.

[Mike Key]

Unfortunately lately I've been having a lot of random issues with it, such as banks not updating with new accounts, budget numbers not reporting negative numbers (meaning I spent under what I budgeted for in the previous month which rolled over), accounts not being able to update, etc.

This might not be isolated then. For the past two weeks we've been having the same problem with our Mint.com account.

[j3000]

This might not be isolated then. For the past two weeks we've been having the same problem with our Mint.com account.

Yeah, and I've had many more other types of problems with it in the past (definitely longer than 2 weeks).  It's not perfect, and from reading the help forum a lot of people seem to have similar problems all the time and never get resolution on them.  :/  I've had some work-arounds but currently a work-around for my problem of an existing bank with a new account that won't get added won't work, because I'd have to re-add the bank to get the new account, but delete the old one and in the process lose my transaction history.  I wish it would all just work!  I was sort of snapped at by customer service too when I reported it, saying the auto batch aggregator was pulled offline indefinitely and they couldn't tell me when it would work again.  So I'm sort of in the dark right now with Mint.  Guess I'll be checking my accounts the old fashioned way.

[velocistar237]

I noticed the connection issue when I signed up a short while back. Apparently different financial institutions have different interfaces, and Mint has to try to keep up with them all. To their credit, when I first signed on, I had one account that wouldn't connect, so I filled out their issue form, and they fixed it the next day.

I still don't like how it will have a problem connecting because of a security question, but when you try to resolve it, it will ask a different question, often one that Mint already has the answer to. In the months I've been with Mint, there are still a few security questions that haven't shown up, so the problem persists.

[j3000]

I still don't like how it will have a problem connecting because of a security question, but when you try to resolve it, it will ask a different question, often one that Mint already has the answer to. In the months I've been with Mint, there are still a few security questions that haven't shown up, so the problem persists.

I had a student loan account that kept saying I needed to answer security questions and wouldn't acknowledge that I did once I did...it went away a bit ago but as of like 3 weeks ago now the account just won't update at all for some reason.  :/

[Grigory]

Mint.com is a nice concept, but I stay away from it (and other sites like it) for one simple reason: it contains all your financial info and login information (bank account numbers, routing numbers, etc.), so if it gets hacked, you'll be like the proverbial lightbulb - screwed. :( I know it hasn't been hacked yet, but it's only a matter of time. The convenience of having all your financial information in one place (when Mint reports it accurately, that is) is simply not worth the risk for me.

My solution to financial tracking is very simple: I simplify. :^P I have my monthly royalties deposit from my Kindle sales, a direct deposit from work every two weeks, an automated student loan payment and a monthly credit card payment (also automated - and don't worry, it pays off in full). I watch my investment accounts like a hawk and I can guesstimate the balance in my savings and checking at any given time. It's not rocket science.

[arebelspy]

Mint.com is a nice concept, but I stay away from it (and other sites like it) for one simple reason: it contains all your financial info and login information (bank account numbers, routing numbers, etc.), so if it gets hacked, you'll be like the proverbial lightbulb - screwed. :( I know it hasn't been hacked yet, but it's only a matter of time. The convenience of having all your financial information in one place (when Mint reports it accurately, that is) is simply not worth the risk for me.

I think when you understand how Mint works, you'll be more comfortable.  It has read only access to your accounts.

Even if my account was hacked, I wouldn't feel insecure.  I'd change my Mint.com password, and that's probably about it.

The convenience and utility I get out of it is well worth the small risk to me.  But to each his own.  :)

[Grigory]

I think when you understand how Mint works, you'll be more comfortable.  It has read only access to your accounts.

It's true that I don't know everything about Mint, but doesn't need your bank passwords in order to access your accounts? (Even if it's read-only access.) I realize that you can't do anything to your accounts if you're just logged into Mint, but if somebody were to hack them, it'd be only a matter of seconds before they got all your passwords, logged into your bank accounts from, say, Nigeria and did some spontaneous wealth redistribution. :^/

[velocistar237]

I just read the security FAQ, but it doesn't say anything special.

https://www.mint.com/how-it-works/security/faq/

If you remove your account, they delete your login info, but it stays around on backup servers. I'm guessing these backup servers aren't connected to the outside world.

It sounds like someone would have to break through several levels of security to get to your bank info. If someone stole the login files, then you would probably have some time to change passwords before they could break the encryption.

It's not rocket science.

I did this for a few months, but it took a while each time. I've changed jobs a couple of times, so I have multiple retirement accounts, an investment account outside retirement, several student loans, a mortgage, multiple credit cards, and multiple bank accounts. I used to have only one or two accounts, but things eventually got complicated. Mint helps, and I'm happy with it.

[Mike Key]

I think when you understand how Mint works, you'll be more comfortable.  It has read only access to your accounts.

It's true that I don't know everything about Mint, but doesn't need your bank passwords in order to access your accounts? (Even if it's read-only access.) I realize that you can't do anything to your accounts if you're just logged into Mint, but if somebody were to hack them, it'd be only a matter of seconds before they got all your passwords, logged into your bank accounts from, say, Nigeria and did some spontaneous wealth redistribution. :^/

You don't understand how hacking works. You have a media perception which is often hyperbole. Mint.com's write policy encrypts everything along a 256bit SSL connection on its way to their servers. Their servers themselves are encrypted, and when you plugin your login information for your bank accounts that information is not visible. Go to edit, and it's still not visible.

If someone hacked my account, they wouldn't be able to find my passwords. They would have to hack Mint.com's servers directly. And then they'd need a super computer to un-encrypt that data. Not Likely. 256 bit encryption is trusted by the CIA even.


Add to that, I can get your routing number to your bank off of google. I don't need Mint.com for that. So that fear is wrongly placed. What I do need to steal your money is your name and bank account number, and then whatever form of authorization your bank requires, which may or may not be your password. In some cases it's not. Especially if I'm going to take that money electronically. Most banks require 2-3 business days to authorize a link to an external bank for transfers to begin with, unless you go in and fill out a form stating you want to make a wire transfer.


People who get ripped off this way, usually have made it too easy for the thief's.

Most of the hacking stories you hear about are because companies, especially banks and stores don't practice full standards for protecting user data. A few big name sites have been caught with their pants down for making it so easy for hackers to steal data.


Users themselves will also use really stupid common passwords that are just to easy to figure out. I've seen the list floating around, but I think Cnet posted it once about how the most common password is "Password" and after that "1234"


How hard is it to memorize this:

[Grigory]

You don't understand how hacking works. You have a media perception which is often hyperbole. Mint.com's write policy encrypts everything along a 256bit SSL connection on its way to their servers. Their servers themselves are encrypted, and when you plugin your login information for your bank accounts that information is not visible. Go to edit, and it's still not visible.

If someone hacked my account, they wouldn't be able to find my passwords. They would have to hack Mint.com's servers directly. And then they'd need a super computer to un-encrypt that data. Not Likely. 256 bit encryption is trusted by the CIA even.

Trust me, when it comes to hacking, I know more than most people. ;)

And yes, I was talking about somebody hacking Mint servers - not picking passwords to individual accounts:

Mint.com is a nice concept, but I stay away from it (and other sites like it) for one simple reason: it contains all your financial info and login information (bank account numbers, routing numbers, etc.), so if it gets hacked

(emphasis added)

The 256-bit encryption has been hacked before (link-1, link-2)  either through brute force or a loophole in the software. On top of that, there's always the human factor. I'll bet anything there's more than one person with access to that data, and when there are people involved, there's plenty of potential for greed, blackmail, stupid errors, etc. Perfect protection does not exist - any system that was designed by humans can be hacked by humans, by default. The hacks I linked to may be outliers, and while the technology for hacking 256 isn't widespread today, it's only a matter of time. Maybe one year, maybe five, maybe even 10, but sooner or later it will happen.

As a result, there's a very simple cost/benefit equation: use Mint.com (which, according to some people, has quite a few glitches even when it's doing what it was designed to do), keep all your financial information in one basket, and spend months (or even years) reclaiming your identity when Mint.com inevitably gets hacked, or keep things simple and manage your finances the same way people did in the dark ages before the great and almighty Mint.com came along. ;) For me, the choice is a no-brainer.

[arebelspy]

And yes, I was talking about somebody hacking Mint servers - not picking passwords to individual accounts

And Mint is what, storing passwords in plain text, not hashing them or anything?  Come on.

If you believe that, you absolutely shouldn't use Mint. I think the risk of something like that is very, very, very low.

For me, the choice is a no-brainer.

For me, the choice is a no brainer as well.  As I said above, "The convenience and utility I get out of it is well worth the small risk to me."

But you don't have to use it.  Feel free to ignore any of us that love it, and do whatever works for you.  :)

[dancedancekj]

I love Mint's admonitions in terms of spending habits. "You're spending too much on travelling the past 6 months."
Thank you, my virtual High Expectations Asian Father :P

Overall, it's a pretty useful tool, and one that I think is easily accessible for the average person to use to track their finances, create budgets, and create financial goals. Mustachians might find it's not as easily customized for some of their more advanced activities (particularly investing) but Mint could be supplemented with other methods of tracking.

[AJ]

If you are afraid of using Mint for security reasons, you shouldn't be logging into your bank accounts online at all. You are far more likely to have your account hacked by someone who got your credentials through keylogging malware than by Mint getting hacked. You also shouldn't write checks, since your bank account and routing number appear at the bottom. It is true that no system is infallible, but that is true for *all* instances where you are using anything other than cash (and, actually, that can get stolen as well, so we're all SOL).

It reminds me of how many parents are afraid to have guns in their house, but are perfectly comfortable having a pool. Even though statistically pools are 100 times more dangerous, there is a sensationalism around guns that makes people "feel" worse about them. (http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2001/07/levittpoolsvsguns.php) That same sensationalism exists around systems like Mint getting hacked. It just "feels" more dangerous, odds be damned.

[Grigory]

If you are afraid of using Mint for security reasons, you shouldn't be logging into your bank accounts online at all. You are far more likely to have your account hacked by someone who got your credentials through keylogging malware than by Mint getting hacked.

My main concern has to do with putting all your eggs (in this case, financial information) in one basket. The scenario I described earlier implies sufficient computer literacy and keeping your computer free of malware and trojans. It's really not that difficult lol. I wasn't talking about computer dummies who want to save Nigerian princes - I was referring to the worst-case scenario. What if the servers get hacked and your personal information (date of birth, SSN, account numbers, passwords, etc.) gets stolen? If it's your bank that got hacked, you'll be able to fix the damage fairly soon. If Mint.com gets hacked, you'd be screwed. Neither scenario is very likely, but I'd rather minimize the risk now rather than change every last bit of my financial information later on.

You also shouldn't write checks, since your bank account and routing number appear at the bottom.

Pffft... Who uses checks in this day and age? :^P

[kudy]

Not sure if bringing up old threads is frowned on here... but I wanted to highlight a few negatives about mint that I discovered recently:

• If your bank changes anything about the login procedure, Mint has to update their software (going on week 3 without accounts from a particular bank)
• Customer service does not converse in English very well (over email)
• Customer service is slow to respond, which is a bad combination with the above point when trying to tell them what's wrong, and they take a number of emails to understand
• You realize that you don't want to open any accounts that don't work with mint, restricting options - for example, I'd like to switch to a credit union but the local one's I've checked do not interface with mint

I realize this is a free product, and it's mostly worked for me for quite a while, but I am now considering going with a spreadsheet or other tool to organize myself, so that I am not reliant on them to make it all work together without problems.

[mugwump]

I have been using Mint for a few months now.  It gives me a useful look at my own assets, as opposed to household assets.  But it's flaky enough that I don't use it for much beyond tracking net worth. 

Ways in which it has been flaky for me;

1. Closed a CD and Mint still shows the account.  Thought my net worth was higher than it was for a week or so until I realized what was going on and hid the old CD from Mint.

2. The nanny budgeting comments are annoying.  Yes, I know I just spent $5000 on travel.  I've been saving the money for years.

3.  And no, I don't feel the need to set up any goals.  I manage with one or two savings accounts just fine, and monitor the SWR on my investments to track my retirement goals.

4. One credit card refuses to update.  If I really had a serious balance that would be an issue, but it is not.

5. I spend a lot of cash, for convenience and to keep costs lower for all of us. (You're welcome).  More work to enter cash transactions.

The budgeting feature might be useful if I needed it, but I find Quicken more useful for tracking expenses. I have set up virtual credit cards to track who owes what to whom in my family, and I have ten twenty years of records to look at.

[arebelspy]

1 you can hide, 2/3 you can turn off or ignore, 4 (or a not supported account) can be an issue occasionally, 5 could also.  I never use cash, so I haven't had that issue.

I don't have any of the above issues, the biggest one I have is occasional duplicate transactions (which I have to sort for, and mark as duplicates).  Not too big of a deal, but there are minor annoyances depending on the user/accounts.

It is inaccurate for net worth for me, so I don't use it for that, only for tracking spending.  If you use quicken, that's a great alternative for tracking spending.  I probably wouldn't use Mint if I used Quicken.  But I find Mint is less work than Quicken, so ignoring the minor Mint issues is well worth it for me.  YMMV.

[Will]

I agree with kudy and mugwump.  Mint is not worth my time for the very things mentioned.

[Another Reader]

I like Bank of America's "My Portfolio," which I believe is powered by Yodlee.  Mint used to use Yodlee, but when Mint was bought by Intuit, they transitioned to an Intuit program.  That caused a lot of problems that made Mint unreliable.  I stopped using Mint in favor of My Portfolio at that point and closed my Mint account when I read about the hacking.

I don't need a spending nanny and a lot of sales pitches.  The My Portfolio interfaces are easy to understand and there are several useful tools.  With all these programs you have to be careful with the data input.  Garbage in = garbage out.  I still can't get it to interface with Prudential, where I have one old retirement account.  My Portfolio was updated a couple of months ago and sadly has been less reliable and more difficult to use, but it still beats Mint.  Fidelity used to have a Yodlee product, but the B of A product is the best I have found.  You have to be a B of A customer, though.

[James]

I've been using Mint for a couple years, it's nice to have a nice history built up so I can see trends and changes.

[TLV]

I use Mint in order to read all my transactions in 1 place, from my checking account at ING and 2 credit cards. ING is safe to use with it because ING gives you a separate password that grants read-only access to use for tools like Mint. I think the credit cards are safe too, because I've never been able to figure out how to do anything with those accounts except pay them off.

I don't use Mint for trends or goals or anything like that - once I get the transactions, I record them in my own database and then munge them into the graphs I want on a spreadsheet.

[Jaherman99]

I use mint and think its great.  Occasionally, there are account log in problems that require you to log in manually, Or glitches, whatever.  It's a good reporting tool, and a small problem doesn't screw me in any way. 

I don't mind the nagging and pitches, because without those the service would not be provided for free. What, do you guys think businesses spend millions supporting every connection, and software for every device, out of the goodness of their hearts?

[Will]

I don't mind the nagging and pitches, because without those the service would not be provided for free. What, do you guys think businesses spend millions supporting every connection, and software for every device, out of the goodness of their hearts?

OTA ("free") television has all kinds of commercials.  That is why it is free.  Cable (which is crazy expensive) also has commercials.  Regardless, people don't enjoy them (usually) and will complain about them because they don't like them.  But it doesn't mean anyone thinks the businesses spend millions making the shows out of the goodness of their hearts.

[arebelspy]

OTA ("free") television has all kinds of commercials.  That is why it is free.  Cable (which is crazy expensive) also has commercials.  Regardless, people don't enjoy them (usually) and will complain about them because they don't like them.  But it doesn't mean anyone thinks the businesses spend millions making the shows out of the goodness of their hearts.

Okay.  Let's put it another way.

I'd rather Mint be free and put up with minor issues like the above listed things (hiccups connecting to accounts, sometime duplicate transactions, risk of giving them my passwords, and it asking you to create goals or offering suggestions) than have all of those things fixed and pay for it.

Some disagree, and luckily there are pay products available to suit those people.

To each his own.

[fiveoh]

Will this grab pricing info on stocks, etfs, and mutual funds?  Thinking of trying it to track net worth... would be easier then having to update my excel spreadsheet manually all the time.

[arebelspy]

It depends on how you are invested in those things, but it connects to most major brokerages.

I prefer NetWorthIQ for net worth tracking though.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/mustachian-web-tools-networthiq/

[plantingourpennies]

Mrs. Pop uses Mint to track spending and net-worth. We're mostly in index funds in vanguard and fidelity and both connect w/no issues. Agreed about cash-but I've found that I can't seem to keep the stuff in my pockets so now I rarely carry it...

Regardless of what you use (mint, networthiq, etc) I think there is value to be had in some relatively granular  historical data.

We have information about how much we spent in each category (food, housing, travel, etc) going back 2-3 years. This makes it VERY easy to make sure you're not enabling lifestyle inflation without knowing it.

best,
Mr. Pop

[momo]

As a free finance budgeting tool Mint is arguably one of the best. I was an original beta tester and still a current user along with the free YNAB and yodlee tools. Despite the institution sync concerns that occur periodically, Mint has greatly improved since its creation. It is now much more stable and updates are quicker. Of course there is room for improvement such as better customer service when reporting concerns and on the forums. The canned form replies can grate on your nerves after multiple exchanges.

For those who are fevertly opposed to how sensitive financial data is stored/exchanged might I respectfully suggest that you do not engage in online investing, banking, shopping, or generally anything involving credit (since the credit bureaus routinely inaccurately report data) and basically all online activities? Your personal data is always at risk to some degree to theft and/or hacking when you have an online presence or credit history and if you are not comfortable that is fine. Using other finance tools will not fully eliminate these valid privacy and security concerns. Check out this Lifehacker article http://lifehacker.com/5332714/why-i-stopped-being-paranoid-and-started-using-mint might help and this MMM thread https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/feeling-queasy-about-opening-mint-com-account/msg24349/#msg24349. Striking a healthy balance somewhere between the extremes may answer your concerns and help grant you some peace of mind.

Overall Mint is a solid budgeting tool especially if you are PROACTIVE.

So before you sign up or give up try honestly answer these questions:
Are you actually mindful with your spending? Do you think before purchasing?
Are you routinely under budget or is each month a struggle?
Are you an aggressive saver? Do you seek out ways to accelerate your savings?
Do you possess little to no debts? And if you have significant debts like mortgage or credit cards do you have a measurable exit plan?
Are your maximizing both tax deferred and tax advantaged contributions?
Do you practice reducing financial and health risks?
Do you keep estate planning in mind when investing and setting up legal entities?

If you answered yes to most of these questions then Mint might be a personal finance budgeting tool worthy of your time. Otherwise if you feel you desire more guidance consider testing out the YNAB (You Need A Budget) tool. The yodlee tool had too many limitations and technical quirks. Also consider testing piggymojo for goal planning assistance.

Your mileage may vary for each but just stay focused on your goals. Good luck!

Cheers!

[GoStumpy]

Mint.com is free, so everyone has to accept the fact that the way they make money is selling products...

I have to ask the question, with the sheer amount of frivolous spending we've all done in our lives, when there is something to IMPROVE our financial position, how can we be in a position to gawk if it's not free? 

I'd be willing to bet that 99% of mint.com users ONLY use it because it's free, and if it cost money to either A) get started, or B) monthly subscribe, it wouldn't have a hope in hellsgate of having enough users to survive...

I realize I'm one of the new guys here, but I don't like the thought of using a tool like mint.com for two reasons:
1) It violates my own bank's terms & conditions of allowing an outside entity to know my banking password. 
2) Free due to the fact that it subliminally pushes financial tools on users - Don't have specific examples but I've heard this time & time again.


YouNeedABudget is absolutely lightyears ahead of mint.com in both usability, support, community, and above all else, BUDGETING!  Sounds pretty mustachian to me....

I had someone complain about mint.com on Twitter yesterday, and after a vague-ish response about "there is a better way", I suggested YNAB....

Do Mustachians not know of YNAB?  Please excuse my ignorance if I'm off base here, only been a member for a week!

[arebelspy]

Yes, that is another valid option.

However I don't budget.  So I don't consider YNAB personally.

[GoStumpy]

That begs the bigger question, what IS the best tracking option?  That answer I do not know, however I believe the journey has begun to find it :)

YNAB is by far the best budgeting application, which also tracks personal savings... And it also has full importing capabilities which is the same thing mint.com does, no?

[Hamster]

And it also has full importing capabilities which is the same thing mint.com does, no?

Not according to YNAB's web site:
"Mint directly connects to your bank. YNAB does not (on purpose).
We do not directly connect with your bank, log in with your password,  and download transactions for you."

[GoStumpy]

Yes, it does not do it automatically, but it can use the .csv & many other bank downloaded statements to import...

Then again, one of the biggest benefits to YNAB is manually importing transactions helps to 'think twice' before spending money... knowing you have to A) enter, and B) categorize all expenditures.  Mint.com does neither, so it really has no effect on either reducing spending or prioritizing spending...

[arebelspy]

Yes, it does not do it automatically, but it can use the .csv & many other bank downloaded statements to import...

Then again, one of the biggest benefits to YNAB is manually importing transactions helps to 'think twice' before spending money... knowing you have to A) enter, and B) categorize all expenditures.  Mint.com does neither, so it really has no effect on either reducing spending or prioritizing spending...

Sounds great for one who is motivated and needs that help.  Personally if I had to do all that work, I wouldn't do it.

That's where I appreciate Mint.  It is quite a time saver for me to track my spending, without having to jump through hoops to see what categories my spending falls into and look at trends.

To each his own.  If you don't like Mint, but have a tool that works for you, great!  :)

[Hamster]

Yes, it does not do it automatically, but it can use the .csv & many other bank downloaded statements to import...

Then again, one of the biggest benefits to YNAB is manually importing transactions helps to 'think twice' before spending money... knowing you have to A) enter, and B) categorize all expenditures.  Mint.com does neither, so it really has no effect on either reducing spending or prioritizing spending...

I don't have experience with YNAB, but inability to auto-import all my transactions and balances is a non-starter. To me, this is claiming that lack of a feature (automatic import) is actually a feature (you have to think about it)--like saying that a cell phone without a contact list is better because then you have to remember everyone's numbers, so you don't need to rely on a contact list... but that's just me. I guess it all depends on whether you need the hassle factor to stop you from spending money, or the extra forced analysis of each transaction.

After Mint pulls all of my transactions in. I still look at all of them, do splits or recategorize as needed, but manually entering all the data would make me not use the software at all. That said, I have a lot of non-discretionary transactions, with rental income and expenses for 4 units (2 duplexes), wife's business expenses, etc. So, manual entry wouldn't make me think twice or not spend that money.

I can't imagine manually entering or importing data files for 3 mortgage accounts, 8 investment/retirement accounts, multiple personal and business checking accounts, 6 credit cards (various reward cards and separate business cards), 2 student loans (interest rate below inflation), etc, etc.  The only account of ours that doesn't sync automatically is a store credit card my wife uses rarely for special promotions. And for that, it's easy enough to manually add transactions to Mint.

There are many areas that I think Mint could do better in terms of user-customization. With Mint "keeping things simple", I lose some power and granularity to analyze my accounts the way I would do prefer to do it, so I do some spreadsheet work where needed. For me, the autosync of all accounts and fairly robust auto-categorization of credit card purchases are the most valuable features.

[GoStumpy]

I don't have experience with YNAB, but inability to auto-import all my transactions and balances is a non-starter. To me, this is claiming that lack of a feature (automatic import) is actually a feature (you have to think about it)--like saying that a cell phone without a contact list is better because then you have to remember everyone's numbers, so you don't need to rely on a contact list... but that's just me. I guess it all depends on whether you need the hassle factor to stop you from spending money, or the extra forced analysis of each transaction.

To link with your bank, mint.com requires the password to your online banking, no?

That violates the terms & conditions of my bank, therefore I will not do it.  Simple as that....

I can see you have above-average requirements, TBH a crazy amount of accounts... you're the exception not the rule... For most people moving forward financially is reducing credit cards, and taking control of where the money goes.  If you're already distributing hundreds of thousands of dollars in wealth, perhaps a granular budgeting software is not for you...

But for those who aim to GET hundreds of thousands of dollars in wealth, granular budgeting is exactly what will help get there.

[Hamster]

GoStumpy, first I hope we didn't get off on the wrong foot. I'm relatively new here myself. Welcome to the forums.

Re: your original question of "Do mustachians not know of YNAB? Some people indeed use it and have mentioned it here:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/you-need-a-budget-software/msg7254/#msg7254

I definitely have nothing against YNAB, and no reason to suggest you should use anything else if it works for you. I just don't see a need for it myself. Mint tells me how much I've been spending in various categories with very little effort. I use those numbers to assess where I can save more, and project where I'll be in the future in terms of net worth. I'm curious how you are using YNAB.

MMM advocates a different approach from the budgeting that most PF "experts" recommend. Most will tell you to budget x% of income for housing, y% for car, z% for entertainment, etc and save 10-15%. Mustachianism is about reducing all expenditures where possible/desirable (rather than hitting a specific percentage or dollar amount per month), and maximizing savings (50%, 70% or more if possible). Unless I'm confused, MMM has said he doesn't budget (I wish I could find the blog post...).

With traditional budgeting, someone would say "I have $100 budgeted for entertainment this month and I've only spent $70, so let's go to the movies and just keep it under $30"[pat self on back for meeting budget]. My take on the mustachian approach would be more like: "I spent $70 so far on entertainment this month. Can I get the same utility/benefit for less than $70 so I can be happy while spending less, and therefore able to save more and retire sooner?"

[Hamster]

I can see you have above-average requirements, TBH a crazy amount of accounts...

I don't think my number of accounts is at all unusual for someone with rental properties, retirement plans, and personal investments.

Rental properties: separate checking accounts (to simplify acccounting and track expenses for taxes), and (in our state at least) security deposits must be kept in an account specifically for that purpose. That means multiple accounts. Also mortgages on each property (mint has them all aggregated at a glance).

Investment/Retirement accts: With a husband and wife who have carried retirement plans from a couple of jobs (all held at Vanguard and Fidelity), funded our own 401ks, and have brokerage accounts with associated money markets for transferring funds to/from banks, that adds up quickly.

For most people moving forward financially is reducing credit cards...

I'd agree that reducing credit card debt is moving forward. That said multiple reward credit cards (paid in full each month) can be a sound financial tool if you're not tempted to use them frivolously. We use whatever card earns the most cash back for the situation. My Chase card is currently giving 5% back at gas stations and drugstores. Costco only takes Amex, so we use Amex rewards cards there. Some of our utilities accept payment by credit card, which earns us rewards for bills we'd pay anyway. How about flying around the world for $220? http://spartantraveler.com/how-i-flew-around-the-world-for-less-than-220/#more-540

But for those who aim to GET hundreds of thousands of dollars in wealth, granular budgeting is exactly what will help get there.

I'd personally replace "granular budgeting" with "minimizing spending and maximizing savings". If granular budgeting is the tool that helps you do that, then go for it.

[GoStumpy]

Firstly, don't worry, we're not off on the wrong food :)  Healthy discussion!  I may be a bit off-base being so opinionated as my first few posts..

-edit-

FOOT!  wrong FOOT!

hahaha, had to leave that typo!

-edit2-

I'll completely admit, I was ignorant to what true MMM'ing is... I just thought it was another 'spend less, save more' with a unique back-story... not that it would be a bad thing...

For the truly frugal, budgets probably aren't necessary... they're not spending anyhoo... I guess I'm in more of the "reduce spending" camp than most!

-edit3-

I'm curious how you are using YNAB.

Currently I am still living paycheque to paycheque, and I hope to end that cycle very soon.  The biggest thing is, I am using my budget categories to make spending decisions.  Not meaning I spend it all, still be frugal, but bank account balance becomes irrelevant. 

Besides monthly fixed expenses, and monthly variable expenses, YNAB and I have a third category called "Rainy Day Funds".  I am saving for furnace replacement, car replacement, deck replacement, car repairs, birthdays, christmas, etc...

When I get paid, I enter the income.  3 or 4 keystrokes... then I decide what I need that money to do before I am paid again (If I had a month's income as a buffer, I could do the entire month on the 1st).  I apply it to bills, groceries, savings, etc... but every dollar has to go somewhere.

Then when I'm out shopping, it helps me be frugal knowing I have to enter that transaction into YNAB & categorize it.

If I have money left over in a category at the end of the month (try to!), it carries over into next month's available, so less needs to be allocated to that, and more to savings (rainy day categories keep growing).

It's been a game-changer for me, from unknowing spending not realizing how much we spent on unimportant things, to a clearly defined worksheet for us.  It has given us direction and priority, allowing us to spend $$$ on things that are important to us, and not accidentally on other things.

[momo]

Does anyone have ideas how to customize parts of Mint? Irregular cash payments, and/or income?

Also curious how people tinker with the investment side particularly for mutual funds and how Mint logs transactions (buy, sells, dividends, fees). If you have at least one 401k linked you probably encountered this yourself too.

Thanks everyone for sharing.

[GoStumpy]

Finally got a reply from TD Bank:

We are able to confirm the following with regard to Mint.com:

* Mint.com is currently not an approved TD partner; therefore we cannot endorse the service at this time.

* TD Canada Trust customers must provide their EasyWeb username and password to Mint.com in order for their personal data to be accessed, categorized and available for viewing on the Mint.com site.

* If you choose to share your EasyWeb login access information with Mint.com you will not be protected from loss if this information falls into the wrong hands, as this action violates the terms and conditions stated in the Cardholder and Electronic Banking Terms and Conditions document.

* Mint.com is not a bank - they aggregate existing data from financial institutions. There is no account access or money movement functionality for customers in the Mint.com site - it merely allows for viewing of financial information.

* TD is currently exploring Mint.com's offerings to see if this is a viable service we should provide to customers in the future.

[smalllife]

Personally I stopped using Mint.com about two years ago when it was having connectivity issues with two out of my five financial institutions.  Around that time I also read their terms of service and looked twice at my banking agreement.  Combined with their clunky reporting, inability to accurately reflect my spending/saving, and having to constantly adjust if my numbers were off by a penny, I left. (this was also in college when money was tight, so the inaccuracy and lack of understandable planning tools were a huge turnoff)

Currently I use YNAB because I find that it fits my mentality when dealing with my money.  I can know without a doubt that I have the money for my semi-annual car insurance, or any other infrequent bills.  I don't double count my cash back up because it is divided appropriately.  I also track my investments by updating their amounts each month: it's not as high-tech as some other programs but it is enough for the "set it and forget it" index fund investing that most of us here advocate.  At the core it is electronic envelope budgeting, with encouragement to move money between envelopes to suit your evolving priorities.  Moving the money around also brings your priorities to the forefront and forces you to confront them (or it will if you are serious about reducing your spending).  It has been very helpful in that regard.

The "YNAB" things - living off of last month's money, thinking about where you are going to spend money rather than tracking what you have spent, etc. - are just a bonus.  I use it to help me see how much extra I can throw towards investments or the mortgage.  Without a clear cut picture of where my dollars are working for me there is a greater likelihood that my cash accounts would be either too trim or too fat for my lifestyle.   

But hey, that's my personal opinion.  You either love Mint or you hate it, there doesn't seem to be any in between.