Mustachian in the News!!

[tomsang]

http://finance.yahoo.com/video/playlist/financially-fit/finfit-frugal-habits-millionaire-next-120100801.html?vp=1

[grantmeaname]

He sounds more cheap than frugal.

[Gerard]

Yeah, borderline cheap/frugal, but nothing he did struck me as over the line, except maybe getting free wifi without buying a coffee. I mean, his furniture is ugly, but maybe that's not important to him.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I'm with Gerard. I didn't see anything that would automatically label him as cheap. Although if I stop somewhere to use free Wifi, I do feel somewhat obligated to buy something in the $0.99 range. Nothing else really jumped out at me.

[Kriegsspiel]

My furniture is off craigslist also, but it's not ugly. People sell nice things too.

[EK]

Those NYC Starbucks are so busy that its really no big deal to just go in and sit down.  No one would even notice that he didn't buy anything.  His furniture was ugly, but seems like that's not a priority of his.  He said he got lots of it free (although even for free there better stuff out there...)

Props to him!!

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Those NYC Starbucks are so busy that its really no big deal to just go in and sit down.  No one would even notice that he didn't buy anything.

Good point. The number of people in the establishment would have a lot to do with whether or not I felt comfortable using the Wifi without buying anything. I live in a rural area, so crowds are few and far between. Just the way I like it!

[grantmeaname]

They provide Wifi for customers, not random people who wander in off the street.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Serious question - when you're on the road, do you feel obligated to buy something from a gas station if you just stop in to use the john? I ask, because I always used to buy a drink, but lately I haven't felt bad about using it without buying anything. Does this mean I'm crossing the line between frugal and cheap? If not, do you see a significant difference between using a business's restrooms that they provide for customers, and using a business's wifi that they provide for customers? I'm genuinely curious to hear what others think about this.

[matchewed]

That analogy is going to be a tough sell. Trying to equate using wifi with needing to pee/poo while on road trip may not work quite well as one is a convenience provided to customers and the other is more related to sanitation. Not that I don't get what you're saying, and frankly most gas stations I've been to have policies regarding restrooms being for paying customers.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Yes, I get that it's not a perfect analogy. I'm just trying to determine where most people think the line is crossed.

[grantmeaname]

The point where you linger in a shop's expensive floorspace for two hours to check your email without buying 89 cents worth of caffeine.

[tomsang]

The point where you linger in a shop's expensive floorspace for two hours to check your email without buying 89 cents worth of caffeine.

What about the point where you stop working and consume less taxable items, yet continue to use or get benefit from the library, parks, roads, schools, fire, police, military protection, and other government services that you valuea and are paid for by people working and paying taxes?

What about the times where you try a "Sample" at Costco, but have not intention of buying the item?

Go to the Mall to window shop and get some exercise, yet will never buy?   

[grantmeaname]

I'm assuming that all of these questions are specious, but on the off chance they're not I'll answer them all anyways.

What about the point where you stop working and consume less taxable items, yet continue to use or get benefit from the library, parks, roads, schools, fire, police, military protection, and other government services that you valuea and are paid for by people working and paying taxes?

Those are public goods provided by the government, which is not a profit-maximizing enterprise. The preamble of the Constitution does not begin with "We the people, in order to collect revenue from taxpayers, do hereby make public services". The role of the government and the role of businesses in the for-profit sector are fundamentally very different in a way that makes this comparison meaningless.

What about the times where you try a "Sample" at Costco, but have not intention of buying the item?

Some of those times you buy the item. That's the entire point of the samples.

Go to the Mall to window shop and get some exercise, yet will never buy?

The mall is partially a social attraction. Having other people be at the mall is part of being at the mall. Some businesses also gain from your window shopping even if you don't buy then and there - nobody buys that Buick parked by the fountain, for example. Moreover, even if you don't buy clothing X or gadget Y, you may get a coffee, go to the movies, or fill your car up at that gas station in the mall's frontage lot. It's not like you're actively driving away paying customers if you don't buy something, either, because malls are huge.

[Christof]

Serious question - when you're on the road, do you feel obligated to buy something from a gas station if you just stop in to use the john? I ask, because I always used to buy a drink, but lately I haven't felt bad about using it without buying anything.

I used to be in the buy a drink camp, but these days I'm simply asking what it costs to use the restrooms in small businesses like gas stations or restauranrs. Usually its free... It's inconsistent behavior, but I don't ask in large businesses like a hotel, mall, etc.

[James]

I don't mind using a bathroom without paying or using wifi without paying unless it is posted otherwise. I don't do that often, and if I wasn't buying something I would take note of the location and appreciate the service they provide without cost. If I had a choice in the future and it was priced similarly, I would use the business if possible out of appreciation. And if I was at a business and it was full, I wouldn't take up space that paying customers needed. If I owned a business in an area that had a problem with people using the bathroom and/or wifi without being a customer, I would put up a sign apologizing for requiring users be customers.


I do think the whole area is a grey one. As Grant says, they don't provide the wifi for random people off the street. At the same time, most businesses seek goodwill, and would be happy to see a potential customer use their wifi or bathroom on the hope that the goodwill generated might result in a regular paying customer at some point. I think using bathrooms and wifi regularly without being a customer would be in bad taste and cheap, but occasional use seems appropriate with goodwill being the payoff for the business.

[grantmeaname]

James, I guess the reason why it stuck out to me was that the article made it pretty clear that it was what he does regularly, all the time. I think it's reasonable to do from time to time (bathroom or wifi), but I feel that it's inappropriate to make a habit of it.