Leonardo DiCaprio's climate-change documentary

[jengod]

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/before-the-flood/videos/before-the-flood/

BEFORE THE FLOOD - free online this weekend and then on National Geographic Channel

Leonardo DiCaprio's climate change documentary is very good.

If you want to help save the world after watching, please plant a tree in the legume family as a means to rapidly sequester surplus atmospheric carbon and/or obtain a clothesline ("solar clothes drier") for your home--outdoor air drying is one of the cheapest, most direct ways to replace polluting fossil fuels with clean solar as one of your household's energy sources.

[kpd905]

The full video is also available on Youtube right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90CkXVF-Q8M&list=WL&index=6

[soupcxan]

Oh please. Leo flies around the world in a private jet spewing CO2 and he's telling us that we should plant legumes and dry our clothes outside? Total hypocrisy.

[davisgang90]

Oh please. Leo flies around the world in a private jet spewing CO2 and he's telling us that we should plant legumes and dry our clothes outside? Total hypocrisy.

You forgot about his yacht.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2016/03/01/leonardo-dicaprios-carbon-footprint-is-much-higher-than-he-thinks/#6ad62dab68a2

[kudy]

Oh please. Leo flies around the world in a private jet spewing CO2 and he's telling us that we should plant legumes and dry our clothes outside? Total hypocrisy.

Maybe he buys carbon offset credits for all of his travel?

[FIRE Artist]

Oh please. Leo flies around the world in a private jet spewing CO2 and he's telling us that we should plant legumes and dry our clothes outside? Total hypocrisy.

And he mistakes a chinook for the localized manifestation of global warming.  While I believe global warming is real, I can't stand "look at me" environmentalism so will take a pass. 

[JrDoctor]

He is a huge hypocrite

[jengod]

Oh please. Leo flies around the world in a private jet spewing CO2 and he's telling us that we should plant legumes and dry our clothes outside? Total hypocrisy.

To be fair to Leo he doesn't say either of those things in the movie. That was just my two cents. The movie is a survey of the science and politics of climate change. If anything he seems to advocate for national carbon taxes and an overall push to clean energy sources including solar and wind.

If you don't like Leo and/or hypocrisy, there is a great segment where Indian environmentalist Sunita Narain absolutely spanks him over his technocratic approach and the selfishness of American consumption patterns over all.

[Metric Mouse]

Oh please. Leo flies around the world in a private jet spewing CO2 and he's telling us that we should plant legumes and dry our clothes outside? Total hypocrisy.

You forgot about his yacht.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2016/03/01/leonardo-dicaprios-carbon-footprint-is-much-higher-than-he-thinks/#6ad62dab68a2

Interesting notes on how many tons of C02 air travel puts into the atmosphere.

[mwulff]

Oh please. Leo flies around the world in a private jet spewing CO2 and he's telling us that we should plant legumes and dry our clothes outside? Total hypocrisy.

To be fair to Leo he doesn't say either of those things in the movie. That was just my two cents. The movie is a survey of the science and politics of climate change. If anything he seems to advocate for national carbon taxes and an overall push to clean energy sources including solar and wind.

If you don't like Leo and/or hypocrisy, there is a great segment where Indian environmentalist Sunita Narain absolutely spanks him over his technocratic approach and the selfishness of American consumption patterns over all.

To be even more fair he freely acknowledges what she says as the truth.

As for flying around the world, somebody has to fly around the world and shoot video of the ice-sheets. We can't all go to Greenland and check it for ourselves. That would really cost some CO2.

[Tyrist]

I am sure his Mansions have a zero carbon footprint just like his private jets.  He probably creates more carbon in a year than multiple families.

Austerity and deprivation for the plebs.

[Metric Mouse]

I am sure his Mansions have a zero carbon footprint just like his private jets.  He probably creates more carbon in a year than multiple families.

Austerity and deprivation for the plebs.

But he sometimes rides a bicycle, so you know, there's that.

[MasterStache]

Technically we are all hypocrites when it comes to putting CO2 into the atmosphere, unless you live in a cave. That doesn't really take away from the point nor does it invalidate the message.

[Mattzlaff]

His documentary fails to note that since 1990 Canadian oil sands producers reduced per barrel GHG emissions by ~30% some up to 50%.

You'll miss out on the fact that oil sands contribute only .15% of global GHG emissions and less than 2% of all emissions from Canada.

During the fly over of an Alberta mine you wont be told that it's just a small aspect of Alberta's industry that is diminishing, currently accounts for less than 1% of oil sands land area over the last 50 years of development. But the extremely less invasive method of oil extraction known as in-situ extraction is conveniently left out of the "documentary".

Not once does leo discuss that Canada is a global leader in energy regulation and environment progress. Doesn't talk about the price on carbon(carbon tax) or capping emissions.

Canada is also a world leader of wind hydro and solar power production. But you wont hear that from Leo.

This is a man who is trying to put end of the world night mares into anyone who even thinks about turning the key, or pushing the start, on a motor vehicle.

But hey, he is famous and finally won an award right?

[MasterStache]

His documentary fails to note that since 1990 Canadian oil sands producers reduced per barrel GHG emissions by ~30% some up to 50%.

You'll miss out on the fact that oil sands contribute only .15% of global GHG emissions and less than 2% of all emissions from Canada.

During the fly over of an Alberta mine you wont be told that it's just a small aspect of Alberta's industry that is diminishing, currently accounts for less than 1% of oil sands land area over the last 50 years of development. But the extremely less invasive method of oil extraction known as in-situ extraction is conveniently left out of the "documentary".

Not once does leo discuss that Canada is a global leader in energy regulation and environment progress. Doesn't talk about the price on carbon(carbon tax) or capping emissions.

Canada is also a world leader of wind hydro and solar power production. But you wont hear that from Leo.

This is a man who is trying to put end of the world night mares into anyone who even thinks about turning the key, or pushing the start, on a motor vehicle.

But hey, he is famous and finally won an award right?

Nice copy and paste from the Huffpost. You should research the author.

"Cody Battershill is a founder of Canada Action, a pro-oilsands advocacy group with deep ties to the Conservative Party and the oil and gas industry. Battershill uses Canada Action to promote the oil and gas industry in Canada and garner public support for industry projects like the Enbridge Northern Gateway Pipeline and TransCanada's Energy East pipeline."

The "shill" in his last name seems so ironic.

[Metric Mouse]

Technically we are all hypocrites when it comes to putting CO2 into the atmosphere, unless you live in a cave. That doesn't really take away from the point nor does it invalidate the message.

No, but it does kind of remove one's authority on the subject, and greatly diminish the urgency of the situation, when one spews tons of C02 in the air flying to conferences to discuss how spewing tons of C02 in the air is killing the planet.

[cerat0n1a]

You'll miss out on the fact that oil sands contribute only .15% of global GHG emissions and less than 2% of all emissions from Canada.

Isn't that just the emissions from the extraction process itself? Not the emissions from actually using the stuff once it's been extracted? That's really the argument for leaving the stuff in the ground.

Seems to me that if we have to have oil (and we do), it's better for it to be extracted in a carbon-efficient way & transported efficiently in pipelines, rather than being loaded into trucks and then on to enormous ships and then more trucks. And that's the argument that the Alberta guys should be making.

[MasterStache]

Technically we are all hypocrites when it comes to putting CO2 into the atmosphere, unless you live in a cave. That doesn't really take away from the point nor does it invalidate the message.

No, but it does kind of remove one's authority on the subject, and greatly diminish the urgency of the situation, when one spews tons of C02 in the air flying to conferences to discuss how spewing tons of C02 in the air is killing the planet.

I can see your point. But it depends on the way in which one looks at it. For instance Leo has planted thousands of trees in Mexico dubbed "The Leonardo DiCaprio Forest." He often rides a bike, he drives a Prius, advocates for environmental charities, electric cars, etc. And his message resonates with untold amounts of people, which likely has a huge net positive impact. Even Forbes, in an article bashing him on his excessiveness, claimed "In the grand scheme, he is probably doing more good than harm."

I agree he should do more to lead by example and I have no doubt it dogs him internally. But I think for most, like myself, he gets the message across. Even if it was Joe Schmo doing the documentary, I still would have felt the same way.

[Rubyvroom]

Just FYI to everyone saying the movie would have cost so much in CO2 in flying around the world to film, at the end of the movie (and on the website) there is a note that...

"The carbon emissions from Before The Flood were offset through a voluntary carbon tax."

It seems a bit ironic to me that people are arguing that his message is rather meaningless when compared to the lifestyle he lives. I mean... you did hear about the recent election we had, right? Lol.

Overall, I thought it was worth the watch, mostly because it was free. Whether or not you believe in climate change is probably not going to be swayed by watching the film, but it's interesting and gives you some information that you might be able to further educate yourself on if it interests you. I can't say I'd have paid full price for it, but that's because I'm a cheapskate MMMer. Free was exactly the right price :)

[soccerluvof4]

Just another Hollywood clown.

[MasterStache]

Just another Hollywood clown.

https://www.looktothestars.org/celebrity/leonardo-dicaprio

I am sure the tens of millions he has raised through his foundation for various projects around the globe pales in comparison to your Philanthropy. I simply don't understand the hate towards someone using his status as means to do something positive in the world.

[bacchi]

Just another Hollywood clown.

https://www.looktothestars.org/celebrity/leonardo-dicaprio

I am sure the tens of millions he has raised through his foundation for various projects around the globe pales in comparison to your Philanthropy. I simply don't understand the hate towards someone using his status as means to do something positive in the world.

It's easier to attack the messenger than the message.

[Tigerbait34]

I'm one of those denier types which provides me with more time to watch things I enjoy and believe in. 

[mwulff]

Technically we are all hypocrites when it comes to putting CO2 into the atmosphere, unless you live in a cave. That doesn't really take away from the point nor does it invalidate the message.

+1, thank you.  That is the point.  I watched the movie and felt sick for what we are all doing.  I too particularly enjoyed the part where the Indian lady almost slapped him for representing all of us in North America who are living a lifestyle of over consumption. 

I want to show it to my kids but it is too depressing....hey dad, people are doing something, right?  Me: I am not sure son.

If I ever meet Mr. DiCaprio I would shake his hand and thank him for realising that the indian woman was telling the truth. In the scene he sat there, looked embarrassed and then politely agreed with her. He didn't attempt any justification or any excuse. I think the truth of it hit home and it really hurt him.

As for the "people are doing something?" angle. I think there are a lot we can do locally.

Here are some things that may or may not be possible for everyone:

1. Eat less meat. This is a drop in the ocean act, but it will help if enough do it. Don't go vegetarian, just take the beef down a few notches and put in some fish and bit more vegetables. Bonus: It's probably healthier

2. Eliminate excessive energy usage. Turn off electric outlet when not in use, insulate your house, anything that saves energy will have an impact on fossil fuel consumption.

3. Take more local vacations. I'm not saying we should stop flying around the world, but we can all take it down a notch. We have changed our winter vacation habits so that we can drive our EV on vacation.

4. Discard your gas-burning vehicle and switch to something else. Our family has 2 electric bikes that we use 90% of the time and one long-range EV that we use for work. The long-range ev is very expensive but well worth it to us. This is a case of us putting a ton of money where our mouth is. But if you can make changes in your life to make a Leaf, Zoe, e-Golf... any EV work for you then do so. And if you have never ridden on an electric bike, go try it. It is awesome to say the least.

This might not make economic sense completely but it does make environmental sense and sometimes that is more important.

5. If you decided to go with option 4, then option 5 is to install your own renewables. Depending on your location this could be wind, photovoltaic or even water. If you live in an area with a "dirty" grid then this makes even more sense.

6. Now if you have installed renewables and feel like spending even more money you could consider getting a tesla powerwall. Again if you live in a dirty grid area this will reduce consumption of coal and it might even save you money. It's also a nice backup against a blackout. This may not be an investment, but it will help the planet.

Just what I could rattle off right of the top of my head.

[MasterStache]

Technically we are all hypocrites when it comes to putting CO2 into the atmosphere, unless you live in a cave. That doesn't really take away from the point nor does it invalidate the message.

+1, thank you.  That is the point.  I watched the movie and felt sick for what we are all doing.  I too particularly enjoyed the part where the Indian lady almost slapped him for representing all of us in North America who are living a lifestyle of over consumption. 

I want to show it to my kids but it is too depressing....hey dad, people are doing something, right?  Me: I am not sure son.

I thought it was a great scene as well. I think it's representative of how others feel about our country. We have all this wealth yet we are so far behind in renewable energy development. All these other developed countries are rapidly moving forward, meanwhile we are still stuck in first gear.

[Metric Mouse]

Technically we are all hypocrites when it comes to putting CO2 into the atmosphere, unless you live in a cave. That doesn't really take away from the point nor does it invalidate the message.

+1, thank you.  That is the point.  I watched the movie and felt sick for what we are all doing.  I too particularly enjoyed the part where the Indian lady almost slapped him for representing all of us in North America who are living a lifestyle of over consumption. 

I want to show it to my kids but it is too depressing....hey dad, people are doing something, right?  Me: I am not sure son.

I thought it was a great scene as well. I think it's representative of how others feel about our country. We have all this wealth yet we are so far behind in renewable energy development. All these other developed countries are rapidly moving forward, meanwhile we are still stuck in first gear.

And they just discovered more oil in Texas. A formation larger than the Baaken. Sweet.

[MasterStache]

Technically we are all hypocrites when it comes to putting CO2 into the atmosphere, unless you live in a cave. That doesn't really take away from the point nor does it invalidate the message.

+1, thank you.  That is the point.  I watched the movie and felt sick for what we are all doing.  I too particularly enjoyed the part where the Indian lady almost slapped him for representing all of us in North America who are living a lifestyle of over consumption. 

I want to show it to my kids but it is too depressing....hey dad, people are doing something, right?  Me: I am not sure son.

I thought it was a great scene as well. I think it's representative of how others feel about our country. We have all this wealth yet we are so far behind in renewable energy development. All these other developed countries are rapidly moving forward, meanwhile we are still stuck in first gear.

And they just discovered more oil in Texas. A formation larger than the Baaken. Sweet.

They didn't really discover it, considering they have been drilling in that region (Permian Basin) for quite some time. It's been known to exist. They just weren't sure how much. They estimate only 50-60% is recoverable. And have no plans of tapping into it until oil prices go back up. I think it would be sweet if gas prices went back up. Hopefully even slap a carbon tax on top of it.

[Metric Mouse]

They didn't really discover it, considering they have been drilling in that region (Permian Basin) for quite some time. It's been known to exist. They just weren't sure how much. They estimate only 50-60% is recoverable. And have no plans of tapping into it until oil prices go back up. I think it would be sweet if gas prices went back up. Hopefully even slap a carbon tax on top of it.

Just being available will keep gas an oil prices in check. If prices go up, it gets tapped and they come back down. Not real hopeful on a carbon tax for the next few years, all arguments of their effectiveness aside.

[MasterStache]

They didn't really discover it, considering they have been drilling in that region (Permian Basin) for quite some time. It's been known to exist. They just weren't sure how much. They estimate only 50-60% is recoverable. And have no plans of tapping into it until oil prices go back up. I think it would be sweet if gas prices went back up. Hopefully even slap a carbon tax on top of it.

Just being available will keep gas an oil prices in check. If prices go up, it gets tapped and they come back down. Not real hopeful on a carbon tax for the next few years, all arguments of their effectiveness aside.

Actually they don't foresee oil prices going back up anytime soon. Perhaps they will, but we are so oversupplied. Couple that with the ever increasing fuel efficiency of automobiles, hybrids and more EVs coming to market. I would be surprised if gas prices increased significantly for the foreseeable future. It would certainly boost the Hybrid/EV market.  Wishful thinking on the carbon tax, I know. "Tax" is a curse word.

[mwulff]

I just think americans should start paying the same as the rest of the western world. You know $10 per gallon or thereabouts..

Seems only fair since their gas guzzlers are ruining it for everyone.. :)

[Metric Mouse]

I just think americans should start paying the same as the rest of the western world. You know $10 per gallon or thereabouts..

Seems only fair since their gas guzzlers are ruining it for everyone.. :)

I'd start with jet fuel. Shipping goods and food and stuff around on the ground benefits the country as a whole - shipping people through the air to snap pictures of pretty places thousands of miles away? Tax the fuck out of that shit.  Would be a great feasibility test of Carbon Taxing, without risking the economical turmoil that a huge gas hike could bring.

[mwulff]

I just think americans should start paying the same as the rest of the western world. You know $10 per gallon or thereabouts..

Seems only fair since their gas guzzlers are ruining it for everyone.. :)

I'd start with jet fuel. Shipping goods and food and stuff around on the ground benefits the country as a whole - shipping people through the air to snap pictures of pretty places thousands of miles away? Tax the fuck out of that shit.  Would be a great feasibility test of Carbon Taxing, without risking the economical turmoil that a huge gas hike could bring.

How about we do both over a 4 year period. Come January 1st. all fossil fuel prices go up. This will give people a great incentive to switch from F150's to Fits.

And to travel less by air.

We only have one planet and one atmosphere.

[Metric Mouse]

I just think americans should start paying the same as the rest of the western world. You know $10 per gallon or thereabouts..

Seems only fair since their gas guzzlers are ruining it for everyone.. :)

I'd start with jet fuel. Shipping goods and food and stuff around on the ground benefits the country as a whole - shipping people through the air to snap pictures of pretty places thousands of miles away? Tax the fuck out of that shit.  Would be a great feasibility test of Carbon Taxing, without risking the economical turmoil that a huge gas hike could bring.

How about we do both over a 4 year period. Come January 1st. all fossil fuel prices go up. This will give people a great incentive to switch from F150's to Fits.

And to travel less by air.

We only have one planet and one atmosphere.

Because regressive taxes are punitive for people of lower socio-economic classes.

[MasterStache]

I just think americans should start paying the same as the rest of the western world. You know $10 per gallon or thereabouts..

Seems only fair since their gas guzzlers are ruining it for everyone.. :)

I'd start with jet fuel. Shipping goods and food and stuff around on the ground benefits the country as a whole - shipping people through the air to snap pictures of pretty places thousands of miles away? Tax the fuck out of that shit.  Would be a great feasibility test of Carbon Taxing, without risking the economical turmoil that a huge gas hike could bring.

How about we do both over a 4 year period. Come January 1st. all fossil fuel prices go up. This will give people a great incentive to switch from F150's to Fits.

And to travel less by air.

We only have one planet and one atmosphere.

Because regressive taxes are punitive for people of lower socio-economic classes.

Not necessarily. First off there is a direct correlation between income and energy use. A new regressive carbon tax  could shift money from payroll taxes and sales tax thereby lessening the burden. The carbon tax could also be redistributed, pro-rata, to every US resident.

Who do you think suffers the most from climate change?  Not the well off.

[Metric Mouse]

I just think americans should start paying the same as the rest of the western world. You know $10 per gallon or thereabouts..

Seems only fair since their gas guzzlers are ruining it for everyone.. :)

I'd start with jet fuel. Shipping goods and food and stuff around on the ground benefits the country as a whole - shipping people through the air to snap pictures of pretty places thousands of miles away? Tax the fuck out of that shit.  Would be a great feasibility test of Carbon Taxing, without risking the economical turmoil that a huge gas hike could bring.

How about we do both over a 4 year period. Come January 1st. all fossil fuel prices go up. This will give people a great incentive to switch from F150's to Fits.

And to travel less by air.

We only have one planet and one atmosphere.

Because regressive taxes are punitive for people of lower socio-economic classes.

Not necessarily. First off there is a direct correlation between income and energy use. A new regressive carbon tax  could shift money from payroll taxes and sales tax thereby lessening the burden. The carbon tax could also be redistributed, pro-rata, to every US resident.

Who do you think suffers the most from climate change?  Not the well off.

Wouldnt that just be shifting money around? If i had reduced payroll taxes (assuming i was employed and not retired) but paid a carbon tax that offset it... where would the extra money come from? Would coal and fuel oil and natural gas and jet fuel all be taxed the same, even though they have drastically different carbon footprints?

[clarkfan1979]

So if Al Gore and Leo are hypocrites, that means that climate change is not real and the scientists are full of shit, right?

[Metric Mouse]

So if Al Gore and Leo are hypocrites, that means that climate change is not real and the scientists are full of shit, right?

No. It just means that no one is doing anything that matters to address it. Absolutely no one.  Even the people who have huge followings and could motivate large amounts of people are still flying to Ecuador every year, or jetting off to Paris on their private jet or whatever. The scientists still drive to work in their fossil fuel-powered cars and eat food grown several hundred miles away using huge amounts of fuels before being trucked to their area using huge amount of carbon before being persevered using huge amounts of carbon.  They are still posting results on computers powered by fossil fuels and working in labs powered by carbon, wearing clothes made thousands of miles away in factories powered by fossil fuels before being transported using carbon....

etc.

It's not that climate change isn't real, or isn't a problem. It's that there's nothing anyone can do to stop it and NO ONE is willing to do even the small things that could be done to mitigate the effects.

At some point, one looks at the data, sees that it's too late to do anything to stop climate change, and that no one is doing anything anyway, and starts looking at other options.

[Metric Mouse]

So what are we supposed to do?  Grab a boat and wait for the water levels to rise high enough?  I'm as cynical as the next guy but I still have some faith in the ingenuity of mankind.  I admit I got a little excited when I saw that giga factory.

Well, my personal plan, to carry with the titanic analogy, is to secure my own life preserver first, before helping others. If one can't stop the ship from sinking, it's probably also a good idea to line up for the lifeboats before everyone starts panicking. 

I'm not certain that expensive electric cars or home battery-backups are going to save the planet, but the technology and drive to get them to market is exciting to me, in a sense.

[darknight]

So if Al Gore and Leo are hypocrites, that means that climate change is not real and the scientists are full of shit, right?

No. It just means that no one is doing anything that matters to address it. Absolutely no one.  Even the people who have huge followings and could motivate large amounts of people are still flying to Ecuador every year, or jetting off to Paris on their private jet or whatever. The scientists still drive to work in their fossil fuel-powered cars and eat food grown several hundred miles away using huge amounts of fuels before being trucked to their area using huge amount of carbon before being persevered using huge amounts of carbon.  They are still posting results on computers powered by fossil fuels and working in labs powered by carbon, wearing clothes made thousands of miles away in factories powered by fossil fuels before being transported using carbon....

etc.

It's not that climate change isn't real, or isn't a problem. It's that there's nothing anyone can do to stop it and NO ONE is willing to do even the small things that could be done to mitigate the effects.

At some point, one looks at the data, sees that it's too late to do anything to stop climate change, and that no one is doing anything anyway, and starts looking at other options.

This is beautiful. Thank you
I try to have intelligent conversations with people on both sides of the fence, "climate change isn't real" and "my nissan leaf literally saved a dolphin" kind of people- The reality is that most of us use similar amount of electricity, clothes, new phones, fly to faraway destinations. The only difference is the small extra efforts (driving a hybrid, reusable shopping bags, maybe actually keeping and using the same smartphone and computer for more than 6 months). If there was even the slightest chance to stop or reverse the environmental issues, it would be a drastic change that everyone would have to make

[clarkfan1979]

Did they talk about population growth in the documentary at all? I saw about the first 30 minutes, then fell asleep.

With more people on the earth, we need to be more environmentally responsible with our behaviors. If there were less people, it would be less of a problem.

The United States is the biggest offender and the most unwilling to change.

[Metric Mouse]

Did they talk about population growth in the documentary at all? I saw about the first 30 minutes, then fell asleep.

With more people on the earth, we need to be more environmentally responsible with our behaviors. If there were less people, it would be less of a problem.

The United States is the biggest offender and the most unwilling to change.

Not really a lot of talk about population growth although it's a huge problem.  They did have a chart showing how much the average American consumes in comparison to people in other countries.  It was 60-1.

I've come to the opinion that population growth will not be as major a problem as some fear - population has a natural leveling off point, and globally we're reaching that point. It's not as if population will continue to increase exponentially forever, as was thought 40 years ago. So I think changes in other areas can be made to accommodate the entire population of humans as growth levels out.

[MasterStache]

Did they talk about population growth in the documentary at all? I saw about the first 30 minutes, then fell asleep.

With more people on the earth, we need to be more environmentally responsible with our behaviors. If there were less people, it would be less of a problem.

The United States is the biggest offender and the most unwilling to change.

Not really a lot of talk about population growth although it's a huge problem.  They did have a chart showing how much the average American consumes in comparison to people in other countries.  It was 60-1.

I've come to the opinion that population growth will not be as major a problem as some fear - population has a natural leveling off point, and globally we're reaching that point. It's not as if population will continue to increase exponentially forever, as was thought 40 years ago. So I think changes in other areas can be made to accommodate the entire population of humans as growth levels out.

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. Heck we still lack basic clean drinking water and food for millions across the globe. If we bring those folks up to the level of consumption of countries like the US, how much more food production would we need?

I am not saying it's not possible. I am more pointing out the reality of how our consumption levels aren't exactly leveling off. Possible? Yes. Probable? No

[Metric Mouse]

I am not saying it's not possible. I am more pointing out the reality of how our consumption levels aren't exactly leveling off. Possible? Yes. Probable? No

Consumption levels are not, I would agree. I was postulating that population levels would reach a balance point, not that consumption would. Consumption is indeed the problem, not strictly population, and that managing population is not as important, or perhaps even as desirable, as managing consumption.

[MasterStache]

I am not saying it's not possible. I am more pointing out the reality of how our consumption levels aren't exactly leveling off. Possible? Yes. Probable? No

Consumption levels are not, I would agree. I was postulating that population levels would reach a balance point, not that consumption would. Consumption is indeed the problem, not strictly population, and that managing population is not as important, or perhaps even as desirable, as managing consumption.

Unfortunately, I feel population growth is easier to try and manage than consumption.

[Metric Mouse]

I am not saying it's not possible. I am more pointing out the reality of how our consumption levels aren't exactly leveling off. Possible? Yes. Probable? No

Consumption levels are not, I would agree. I was postulating that population levels would reach a balance point, not that consumption would. Consumption is indeed the problem, not strictly population, and that managing population is not as important, or perhaps even as desirable, as managing consumption.

Unfortunately, I feel population growth is easier to try and manage than consumption.

And I would argue that since population growth is leveling off naturally, and has as pretty foreseeable cap, it would be more efficient to work on consumption levels, which do not appear to have a natural cap (short of resource exhaustion).

[C40]

I don't get why you guys (and so many people) attack Leo for being hypocritical. Whether he is or isn't, it doesn't invalidate his message.

I was thoroughly annoyed by certain parts of the movie, particularly the suggestions of effectively buying our way out of trouble. No. That's not going to work. We're going to need to reduce consumption per person very significantly (by we I mean those already in the "developed world"). But still, I liked the movie. I think it's good. I think you should watch it if you haven't yet. It's not perfect, but we should focus on what we should do rather than the movie or Leo not being perfect.

[mwulff]

I don't get why you guys (and so many people) attack Leo for being hypocritical. Whether he is or isn't, it doesn't invalidate his message.

I was thoroughly annoyed by certain parts of the movie, particularly the suggestions of effectively buying our way out of trouble. No. That's not going to work. We're going to need to reduce consumption per person very significantly (by we I mean those already in the "developed world"). But still, I liked the movie. I think it's good. I think you should watch it if you haven't yet. It's not perfect, but we should focus on what we should do rather than the movie or Leo not being perfect.

I agree. Somebody has to get the message out there and Leo isn't the worst person for that job.

That being said we should all reduce our consumption. A great start would be to get the "average" american to consume as little as the average european. That would really help.

But in the end the whole developed world has to change it's patterns.