Author Topic: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.  (Read 7429 times)

DecD

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Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« on: March 13, 2015, 10:32:43 AM »
I like this post from the NYTime Motherlode blog: the general point is that for middle and upper middle class families, the ability to have one parent stay home is about what financial choices you make, not about whether you can magically afford it.  In essence, if you make MMM-style choices with your lifestyle, then the option of having one parent stay at home opens up.

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/12/stay-at-home-parent-is-not-a-luxury/?mabReward=A1&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&region=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine&_r=0

(for what it's worth, we're going with the both-parents-working model, not because we think it's financially necessary, but because we both have career aspirations we're following.  We know that we could have a parent stay at home and live comfortably on one salary if that was the path we wanted.)

Cassie

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2015, 11:18:06 AM »
It is all about the choices you make. 40 years ago when I stayed home with my kids most people were making the necessary sacrifices to do the same thing. When our kids went to school then most resumed or started careers.  No we weren't living in new houses or driving new cars. Everything was old but the experience for us was priceless.

frugledoc

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2015, 09:27:33 AM »
It is all about the choices you make. 40 years ago when I stayed home with my kids most people were making the necessary sacrifices to do the same thing. When our kids went to school then most resumed or started careers.  No we weren't living in new houses or driving new cars. Everything was old but the experience for us was priceless.

Unfortunately for the child bearing generation of today re-starting a career is very difficult after taking time off for several years to be a stay at home parent, definitely in the UK anyway.

There are still some jobs where is is possible, but many jobs now are so competetive that your CV and post will be redundant unless you start from scratch.

gnomemom

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2015, 09:16:48 AM »
I quit my job to stay home when our first was born.  It was always our plan to have a stay at home parent and live on one income.  For the most part, it's worked out well.  It's a little slower building the stache, and we live pretty simply (and in a fairly high cost of living area).  But, I think my kids are turning out awesome, and I have no regrets :)

I forgot to add, what makes me the most irritated is when people used to say I was lucky.  Really?  Lucky?  You mean because I planned for this and made it work?  It wasn't just luck that made it happen.  (I mean, removed from the luck of having a great spouse and going to college and being born in a free country and all of that kind of luck).
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 09:18:58 AM by gnomemom »

anon-e-mouse

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2015, 10:11:04 AM »
Having my wife stay home is my greatest financial success so far!  It was mentally difficult for her at first but I'm so glad she did it.  It was such a high priority for me that I didn't even feel like we struggled to do it.

justajane

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2015, 04:31:30 PM »
If you read the enormous amount of comments, a similar trend emerges that we often discuss on here - namely the refusal to see the connection between the amount in your bank account and what you spend. People on here often talk about how people see them as somehow privileged because they are able to retire early, as if all those years of sacrifice and saving 50% of your pay were nothing.

I understood what the author was trying to say, but clearly the NYT reading public didn't as a whole. The general consensus was that it still was a luxury to have a SAHP and that the author should stop judging how other people spend their money. Just like MMM, she made it perfectly clear that she was addressing the middle class and above - not those who actually have to be a dual income family just to make ends meet.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 07:15:37 AM »

Unfortunately for the child bearing generation of today re-starting a career is very difficult after taking time off for several years to be a stay at home parent, definitely in the UK anyway.

There are still some jobs where is is possible, but many jobs now are so competetive that your CV and post will be redundant unless you start from scratch.

This is what scares me.  I'd love to stay at home with my kids (if I have them). But it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get back to where I am career wise- it just is not done in this industry. You can't "come back".  Which very well could lead to me needing those kids to take care of me in my old age, because of the massive financial hit to retirement and other accounts.

I have a strong marriage, but the number of people I see who get divorced after 25-30 years terrifies me.  And it is always the Mom who stayed home to raise them who gets totally screwed after that. Because now she doesn't have a job that can support her.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 12:00:06 PM by iowajes »

anon-e-mouse

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 11:43:06 AM »
Necessity is the mother of invention.
I know of a few families that started their own business after the kids got a bit older.
Most went back to work once the kids were in school full time.

I would have to admit that taking a 7 year break from my job would make me feel like I would not be able to jump right back in at my current position.  Fear sucks.

MrsPete

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 01:53:57 PM »
Articles touting this same drivel have been around since before I had my first child twenty years ago -- probably longer.  The big thing when I was expecting my first was that if you just "did the math", you'd see that it's better for you to stay home!  (Universal truth for everyone, according to the magazines.)

Really, not news. 
Comments haven't changed either. 

justajane

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 02:59:11 PM »
@MrsPete
What specifically did you not like about her argument? I didn't think she was saying that everyone had to follow her course. Rather, I think she was objecting to the notion that privilege rather than choices is what led her to be able to be SAHM, as compared to those around her who had similar incomes. I would say her argument was pretty MMM-esque. Substitute SAHP with early retirement.

I get frustrated when people fear monger about being a stay at home parent. Yes, in the case of divorce, it would indeed be difficult. But in the event of the primary breadwinner's death....isn't that what a stach and life insurance are for? I also take comfort in the fact that I am very frugal and have not based my life and happiness around consumption.

Davids

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 03:06:46 PM »
I am lucky that my wife was able to get a part time schedule so we do not have to put our now 10 month old in day care. She works weekends and on average 2-3 weekdays per month. On the weekdays when she ends up working either my mom comes over or I take off from work if my mom cannot come over. The loss of income (Her full time salary less cost of daycare vs. what she makes part time) does not mean anything since the value of my wife being able to stay home during the week and not putting a baby in day care is priceless.

Also we save like crazy anyways, we would be fine on just my salary but still good for my wife to have some part time schedule so there is no gap and she can go back full time in a couple years.

mskyle

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 03:49:58 PM »
I saw this article all over facebook and really didn't get it at all... it seemed like she's saying it's not a luxury, it's a choice we've planned for? I just don't see those things as being mutually exclusive. I guess maybe she's trying to say that it's a luxury a lot of her peers could afford if they made different choices, but that doesn't mean it's not a luxury, just that it's not an out-of-reach luxury.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 03:51:32 PM by mskyle »

justajane

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2015, 03:59:47 PM »
I saw this article all over facebook and really didn't get it at all... it seemed like she's saying it's not a luxury, it's a choice we've planned for? I just don't see those things as being mutually exclusive. I guess maybe she's trying to say that it's a luxury a lot of her peers could afford if they made different choices, but that doesn't mean it's not a luxury, just that it's not an out-of-reach luxury.

To me, a luxury implies an otherness, as if the proposition is out of reach for regular folk. Thus, if you can stay at home, you must be somehow wealthier than the rest of us. This sets her apart in a way in the same way that "Must be nice...." does. It minimizes a commitment to frugality that might make it possible for a family to live on one income.

golden1

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2015, 06:16:21 AM »
I knew I wanted to be a SAHM while my kids were young, and I planned for it accordingly, but it does take planning and work to make it all work out, and we still took a financial hit for it.  I am in tech so my plan originally was to work right out of school for 5-7 years, then have 2-3 kids, stay home while getting a masters degree, and then return to work in my field.  That is pretty much what happened.  When interviewing, I was honest about my work history, and the fresh master's degree really helped I think.  I did lose out on 8 years of income and retirement savings during that time, but my husband increased his savings to match.

Many women in the same position I am in did the same thing, except many of them switched career tracks entirely to ones that were more flexible and family friendly.  These days, class schedules are a lot more flexible, allowing moms with small kids to keep their skills up or learn new ones. 

KCM5

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2015, 08:06:12 AM »
I saw this article all over facebook and really didn't get it at all... it seemed like she's saying it's not a luxury, it's a choice we've planned for? I just don't see those things as being mutually exclusive. I guess maybe she's trying to say that it's a luxury a lot of her peers could afford if they made different choices, but that doesn't mean it's not a luxury, just that it's not an out-of-reach luxury.

To me, a luxury implies an otherness, as if the proposition is out of reach for regular folk. Thus, if you can stay at home, you must be somehow wealthier than the rest of us. This sets her apart in a way in the same way that "Must be nice...." does. It minimizes a commitment to frugality that might make it possible for a family to live on one income.

But really, she's talking about the upper middle class of a very wealthy country. We all have access to extreme luxury. I'm with mskyle - luxury and sacrifice are not mutually exclusive. Retiring early is a luxury, too. Doesn't mean that the early retiree didn't work hard to ensure that he or she could do it.

Really, I think it was an article about the woman's personal pet peeve that she thought would resonate with other stay at home upper middle class parents. And it probably does. But it's a pretty narrow band and the broad picture of human experience says yes, it is a luxury and maybe we should recognize that.

Other luxuries I enjoy every day: communicating with the world via a black box on my desk, conveying myself from one place to another on paved roads at 18 mph on my bicycle, seeing to read in the evening with the flip of a switch, playing with my happy, healthy daughter, etc. I think a little gratitude is in order for all of us, really.

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 09:35:13 AM »
I saw this article all over facebook and really didn't get it at all... it seemed like she's saying it's not a luxury, it's a choice we've planned for? I just don't see those things as being mutually exclusive. I guess maybe she's trying to say that it's a luxury a lot of her peers could afford if they made different choices, but that doesn't mean it's not a luxury, just that it's not an out-of-reach luxury.

To me, a luxury implies an otherness, as if the proposition is out of reach for regular folk. Thus, if you can stay at home, you must be somehow wealthier than the rest of us. This sets her apart in a way in the same way that "Must be nice...." does. It minimizes a commitment to frugality that might make it possible for a family to live on one income.

But really, she's talking about the upper middle class of a very wealthy country. We all have access to extreme luxury. I'm with mskyle - luxury and sacrifice are not mutually exclusive. Retiring early is a luxury, too. Doesn't mean that the early retiree didn't work hard to ensure that he or she could do it.

Really, I think it was an article about the woman's personal pet peeve that she thought would resonate with other stay at home upper middle class parents. And it probably does. But it's a pretty narrow band and the broad picture of human experience says yes, it is a luxury and maybe we should recognize that.

Other luxuries I enjoy every day: communicating with the world via a black box on my desk, conveying myself from one place to another on paved roads at 18 mph on my bicycle, seeing to read in the evening with the flip of a switch, playing with my happy, healthy daughter, etc. I think a little gratitude is in order for all of us, really.

I generally agree with you about the use of the word "luxury". I was prepared to dislike the article before I read it based on my belief that most of the things we take for granted in life are indeed, luxuries, but I ended up agreeing with most of her points. I don't even think she's talking specifically to the upper middle class. There's no reason an average family shouldn't be able to make it on a single income in our country. She is basically just calling it what it is: a choice. I agree with that.

justajane

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2015, 09:48:22 AM »
I saw this article all over facebook and really didn't get it at all... it seemed like she's saying it's not a luxury, it's a choice we've planned for? I just don't see those things as being mutually exclusive. I guess maybe she's trying to say that it's a luxury a lot of her peers could afford if they made different choices, but that doesn't mean it's not a luxury, just that it's not an out-of-reach luxury.

To me, a luxury implies an otherness, as if the proposition is out of reach for regular folk. Thus, if you can stay at home, you must be somehow wealthier than the rest of us. This sets her apart in a way in the same way that "Must be nice...." does. It minimizes a commitment to frugality that might make it possible for a family to live on one income.

But really, she's talking about the upper middle class of a very wealthy country. We all have access to extreme luxury. I'm with mskyle - luxury and sacrifice are not mutually exclusive. Retiring early is a luxury, too. Doesn't mean that the early retiree didn't work hard to ensure that he or she could do it.

Really, I think it was an article about the woman's personal pet peeve that she thought would resonate with other stay at home upper middle class parents. And it probably does. But it's a pretty narrow band and the broad picture of human experience says yes, it is a luxury and maybe we should recognize that.

Other luxuries I enjoy every day: communicating with the world via a black box on my desk, conveying myself from one place to another on paved roads at 18 mph on my bicycle, seeing to read in the evening with the flip of a switch, playing with my happy, healthy daughter, etc. I think a little gratitude is in order for all of us, really.

I agree with you, and perhaps that's how she should take the comment if and when it is given to her. It would sure make things easier. But usually people use the term "luxury" as I discussed it above and not as you describe it. It is a way to politely express resentment and in many respects to diminish what they might or might not view as an accomplishment.

Would you react the same way if someone said to you, "Wow, it must be such a luxury to pay for a car in cash"?

In many respects, it's a classic complainypants stance. If you are successful singer or businessman or whatever, it happened to you and not me because you were either lucky or came from the right family. It's not your hard work that got you there. Yes, I guess in many respects this is true, but it's not the place of someone else to say that to you in a pointed way. It's just not polite.

In essence, my interpretation when people say that (who are of the same socioeconomic level as I am) me staying home is a luxury, they are saying that they can't afford it, even though they would like to. I would rather that parents own their choices whatever they are. I have no problem with people working just because they want to. Kids are fine either way. But then they shouldn't assert that one income households are more privileged than they are.

KCM5

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2015, 10:11:55 AM »
I saw this article all over facebook and really didn't get it at all... it seemed like she's saying it's not a luxury, it's a choice we've planned for? I just don't see those things as being mutually exclusive. I guess maybe she's trying to say that it's a luxury a lot of her peers could afford if they made different choices, but that doesn't mean it's not a luxury, just that it's not an out-of-reach luxury.

To me, a luxury implies an otherness, as if the proposition is out of reach for regular folk. Thus, if you can stay at home, you must be somehow wealthier than the rest of us. This sets her apart in a way in the same way that "Must be nice...." does. It minimizes a commitment to frugality that might make it possible for a family to live on one income.

But really, she's talking about the upper middle class of a very wealthy country. We all have access to extreme luxury. I'm with mskyle - luxury and sacrifice are not mutually exclusive. Retiring early is a luxury, too. Doesn't mean that the early retiree didn't work hard to ensure that he or she could do it.

Really, I think it was an article about the woman's personal pet peeve that she thought would resonate with other stay at home upper middle class parents. And it probably does. But it's a pretty narrow band and the broad picture of human experience says yes, it is a luxury and maybe we should recognize that.

Other luxuries I enjoy every day: communicating with the world via a black box on my desk, conveying myself from one place to another on paved roads at 18 mph on my bicycle, seeing to read in the evening with the flip of a switch, playing with my happy, healthy daughter, etc. I think a little gratitude is in order for all of us, really.

I agree with you, and perhaps that's how she should take the comment if and when it is given to her. It would sure make things easier. But usually people use the term "luxury" as I discussed it above and not as you describe it. It is a way to politely express resentment and in many respects to diminish what they might or might not view as an accomplishment.

Would you react the same way if someone said to you, "Wow, it must be such a luxury to pay for a car in cash"?

In many respects, it's a classic complainypants stance. If you are successful singer or businessman or whatever, it happened to you and not me because you were either lucky or came from the right family. It's not your hard work that got you there. Yes, I guess in many respects this is true, but it's not the place of someone else to say that to you in a pointed way. It's just not polite.

In essence, my interpretation when people say that (who are of the same socioeconomic level as I am) me staying home is a luxury, they are saying that they can't afford it, even though they would like to. I would rather that parents own their choices whatever they are. I have no problem with people working just because they want to. Kids are fine either way. But then they shouldn't assert that one income households are more privileged than they are.

Oh, it's absolutely rude and I get why she would find it annoying. It's ridiculous that someone with intelligence, ability, and privilege to simply throw up there hands and say I don't have a choice. I'm with you on owning our choices. I work full time, have a husband that works full time, and a child in all day care. It's a choice I've made. I'm fully aware I could make other choices, and I wouldn't dream of making such a comment to someone who stay's a home with their child(ren). But I also don't get offended when someone makes some comment about how lucky I am that I can travel to such and such place or whatever. Because I know that ultimately I'm lucky that I grew up in a stable middle class home with parents that love me, went to college with the emotional support of my parent, have a stable job that pays a middle class income, and a loving husband with values similar to mine. Sure, some of these things I had control over, but some of them I didn't. My life is pretty great and I can recognize that there's both luck and hard work involved.

I realize I was using the word "luck" instead of "luxury" so now this rant really went off on a tangent. Oops.

It's another matter altogether, but I also have a hard time believing that she heard that from 8 people in one week. Maybe its because I don't really put my life/lifestyle out there, or that I'm in the Midwest, but I just don't hear these sorts of comments. And I get why she'd find that annoying if that were the case.

justajane

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2015, 10:23:15 AM »
Good point, KCM5. I'm guessing she was exaggerating regarding the 8 times. If that is indeed true, she needs to find another group of friends and acquaintances. Or move altogether. That's a rude bunch of people.

The more likely scenario was that she was using some poetic license to make her point or to generate more sympathy/outrage in the reader. Either way it's disingenuous.

The Mommy/parents wars exhaust me. We all are just trying to make our way. Whenever someone says something offensive, I should just let it roll off, but it can be hard sometimes.

Several of the comments had rude snipes at SAHMs to this effect: "Here's the thing SAHMs, I do all that you do - clean, laundry, schedule, doctor's appts etc - AND I have a full time job."

This is the classic defensive response that overlooks the truly hard part of being a stay at home parent, namely spending all day with a child. But I have to remind myself that it is probably coming from a place of hurt and hearing one to many times that they are not "raising their child" since they are in daycare. This is, of course, bullocks and not something I think at all. But many people say that, and I imagine it burns, leading some to lash out and say equally hurtful things.




KCM5

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2015, 10:52:38 AM »
The Mommy/parents wars exhaust me. We all are just trying to make our way. Whenever someone says something offensive, I should just let it roll off, but it can be hard sometimes.

Several of the comments had rude snipes at SAHMs to this effect: "Here's the thing SAHMs, I do all that you do - clean, laundry, schedule, doctor's appts etc - AND I have a full time job."

This is the classic defensive response that overlooks the truly hard part of being a stay at home parent, namely spending all day with a child. But I have to remind myself that it is probably coming from a place of hurt and hearing one to many times that they are not "raising their child" since they are in daycare. This is, of course, bullocks and not something I think at all. But many people say that, and I imagine it burns, leading some to lash out and say equally hurtful things.


Yeah, if I'm being honest, the reason I'm not at SAHM (besides the fact the my husband makes half what I do and doesn't want to stay home) is that I'm just not suited to spending all day with my child. I'm sure I'd make it work and I'd still probably be happy, but I like working and I love playing with her before, after, and on the weekends. Really, the ideal situation would be part time work, but my current job does not allow that and I like it too much to find one that would. And my current well paying job will allow me to work less or not at all when she's older.

I think that those comments come not just from being hurt by people saying that they're not "raising their child" but also from insecurity in the choices they've made. If they are in a situation they're unhappy with or are conflicted about working, I can see reacting like that.

justajane

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2015, 11:04:37 AM »
There are many days I wish I weren't a (mostly) stay a home mother, in large part because I don't ultimately think I am suited to spending all day with a child. It doesn't match my personality strengths. But it is the best decision for our family moving forward. I am often jealous of my husband when he leaves for work, although I know that he has stresses at work and deals with all the stresses at home too (including the nights).

Ultimately it's hard being a parent to young children regardless of one's circumstances. That's the takeaway for me at least.

Cassie

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Re: Having a Stay-at-Home Parent isn't a luxury, it's a choice.
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2015, 04:20:25 PM »
I think that everyone really needs to make the decision that works best for their family. There never is a one size fits all & I hate the mommy wars crap.  My friends that did not qut working have much bigger pensions then me but I am okay with that. In the end if you feel good about your choices that is all that matters.

 

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