Author Topic: Germany - 28 hour work week  (Read 2322 times)

Prairie Stash

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Germany - 28 hour work week
« on: February 09, 2018, 08:31:25 AM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/07/german-workers-win-right-28-hour-working-week/

A union gained an amazing benefit, a shorter work week (same hourly wage). How many here wish you could work a  7 hour/4 day work week?

Is this the future? I hope so.

2Cent

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2018, 08:38:22 AM »
Same hourly wage but 30% less income for 30% less hours. That will be hard or even impossible for most people.

Prairie Stash

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2018, 08:57:57 AM »
Same hourly wage but 30% less income for 30% less hours. That will be hard or even impossible for most people.
Its down from 35, only 20% drop, your point is correct otherwise. I was wondering if people would notice that it wasn't a 40 hour work week to begin with. Its an automatic assumption people work 40 hours, I get why you assumed it.

Why would it be hard? Germany has a savings rate of 9.9%, for many that's 10% or less they need to come up with. Keep in mind these are all well compensated individuals to begin with.
https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/personal-savings

px4shooter

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2018, 07:34:24 PM »
Work less. Make less. Keep more dues flowing into the union to inflate their number of members.

SimpleGuy

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 09:55:31 AM »

A union gained an amazing benefit, a shorter work week (same hourly wage). How many here wish you could work a  7 hour/4 day work week?


I'd like to see more of that.  Even the 35-hour work week is great.  I've been working 37.5 hours/week for the last 6 years and have greatly enjoyed it.  I've been looking at other jobs but don't want to go back to 40 hours a week.  It's amazing the difference 30 minutes a day makes.

2Cent

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 01:32:56 AM »
I would like to work 4 * 9 hours. I don't think that extra hour hurts much and I get to wait out the traffic. It would only cost 10% of my pay, but with progressive taxes that is actually more like 7%. That seems like a good trade for an extra free day a week.

rbuck

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 11:05:35 AM »
Same hourly wage but 30% less income for 30% less hours. That will be hard or even impossible for most people.
Its down from 35, only 20% drop, your point is correct otherwise. I was wondering if people would notice that it wasn't a 40 hour work week to begin with. Its an automatic assumption people work 40 hours, I get why you assumed it.

Why would it be hard? Germany has a savings rate of 9.9%, for many that's 10% or less they need to come up with. Keep in mind these are all well compensated individuals to begin with.
https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/personal-savings

I think Germans might do fine as they have traditionally had a high savings rate as compared to the US. I would argue that they aren't well compensated though. The last reliable metric I can find shows Germany with a median income of slightly over $25k and an average income over $31k. While here in the US we have a median income over $59k yet our savings rate is only 2.4%.

mm1970

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 11:12:21 AM »
I actually really like this.  To be honest, as a parent in a dual working couple with 2 elementary aged kids, this would be a godsend.

The problem, in the US, is obviously healthcare.  In most companies, 30 hrs/ a week is required for health insurance through your employer.

(A side problem is that in many industries, part time is frowned upon - because why hire 2 people at 30 hours and provide health insurance when you can force one guy to work 60 hours.  Especially if he or she is exempt!)

For the "young parent" years, 2 people at 30 hours would be way better than the alternatives, for me anyway.

Herk

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 12:09:49 PM »
Same hourly wage but 30% less income for 30% less hours. That will be hard or even impossible for most people.
Its down from 35, only 20% drop, your point is correct otherwise. I was wondering if people would notice that it wasn't a 40 hour work week to begin with. Its an automatic assumption people work 40 hours, I get why you assumed it.

Why would it be hard? Germany has a savings rate of 9.9%, for many that's 10% or less they need to come up with. Keep in mind these are all well compensated individuals to begin with.
https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/personal-savings

I think Germans might do fine as they have traditionally had a high savings rate as compared to the US. I would argue that they aren't well compensated though. The last reliable metric I can find shows Germany with a median income of slightly over $25k and an average income over $31k. While here in the US we have a median income over $59k yet our savings rate is only 2.4%.

I am pretty sure that the german number is per capita and the US number is per household though. The average german income per capita is about $33k.

rbuck

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 03:33:51 PM »
Same hourly wage but 30% less income for 30% less hours. That will be hard or even impossible for most people.
Its down from 35, only 20% drop, your point is correct otherwise. I was wondering if people would notice that it wasn't a 40 hour work week to begin with. Its an automatic assumption people work 40 hours, I get why you assumed it.

Why would it be hard? Germany has a savings rate of 9.9%, for many that's 10% or less they need to come up with. Keep in mind these are all well compensated individuals to begin with.
https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/personal-savings

I think Germans might do fine as they have traditionally had a high savings rate as compared to the US. I would argue that they aren't well compensated though. The last reliable metric I can find shows Germany with a median income of slightly over $25k and an average income over $31k. While here in the US we have a median income over $59k yet our savings rate is only 2.4%.

I am pretty sure that the german number is per capita and the US number is per household though. The average german income per capita is about $33k.

Maybe as each site that I checked and figures that were slightly different and were switching between average and median income. You are correct that the $59k is per household. This site (http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/germany/) states that, "the average household net-adjusted disposable income capita is $33,652. The net-adjusted income is considered after taxes have been taken out. So if you assume that the average US citizen pays about 25% in federal income taxes & payroll taxes it would lower the net-adjusted figure to $44,250.

Not that it matters to much, other than to show you that savings is more of a function of not spending money versus earning more money.

Prairie Stash

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2018, 07:43:04 AM »
Same hourly wage but 30% less income for 30% less hours. That will be hard or even impossible for most people.
Its down from 35, only 20% drop, your point is correct otherwise. I was wondering if people would notice that it wasn't a 40 hour work week to begin with. Its an automatic assumption people work 40 hours, I get why you assumed it.

Why would it be hard? Germany has a savings rate of 9.9%, for many that's 10% or less they need to come up with. Keep in mind these are all well compensated individuals to begin with.
https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/personal-savings

I think Germans might do fine as they have traditionally had a high savings rate as compared to the US. I would argue that they aren't well compensated though. The last reliable metric I can find shows Germany with a median income of slightly over $25k and an average income over $31k. While here in the US we have a median income over $59k yet our savings rate is only 2.4%.

I am pretty sure that the german number is per capita and the US number is per household though. The average german income per capita is about $33k.

Maybe as each site that I checked and figures that were slightly different and were switching between average and median income. You are correct that the $59k is per household. This site (http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/germany/) states that, "the average household net-adjusted disposable income capita is $33,652. The net-adjusted income is considered after taxes have been taken out. So if you assume that the average US citizen pays about 25% in federal income taxes & payroll taxes it would lower the net-adjusted figure to $44,250.

Not that it matters to much, other than to show you that savings is more of a function of not spending money versus earning more money.
I doubt the union members are average or below average. This is a high skilled trade union, typically paid better than average. Although your point may be valid for Germany as a whole, I'm not sure it applies to the 900,000 members.

I imagine this is what the headlines looked like when the work week was reduced to 40 hours.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time

Fascinating to see some countries, Mexico, work more than the USA while others work less.

PoutineLover

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 07:47:34 AM »
That's basically my schedule, 4*6.75. I love having an extra day off every week. Sure, I could be making more money but I have enough to live on and save. I think work weeks in general should be getting shorter, that way more people can work more flexible hours and have a better quality of life with a lower unemployment rate.
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LennStar

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2018, 08:03:59 AM »
Please do not forget that this is about a 2 year time for parents, those who have to care for the elderly etc.

Also the wage increase, which (as always) was described as incredibly high in the news, boils down to just 2% yearly (because it is made over 27 month I think it was).

Statistics, statistics, statisics....

Also Eastern Germany still has longer work hours and lower pay on average.
(Interestingly, since the gender pay gap was a topic, in some Eastern regions women get paid more then man, while in Bavaria the woman get paid a lot less. Why? It depends on the job, where there are no well-paid "mans" jobs, the women get more.)

Anette

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2018, 05:17:12 PM »
I work as a nurse in Germany, 25h/week...however, that's part time, full time is 39 hours and I would love to enjoy the privileges the metal workers get through their Union.

The_Dude

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Re: Germany - 28 hour work week
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2018, 06:38:26 PM »
I would love it!

I've told my coworkers for years that I would happily take a 20% pay cut in order to work only 4 days a week.  But as my career has been as an exempt employee since I graduated there are almost zero jobs out there that would allow this and health coverage becomes a big deal.