Flying shame (flygskam)

[FINate]

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/25/8881364/flying-shame-climate-change-airline-greta-thunberg

I've poked at this issue somewhat in other threads on this forum. We can get pretty smug about driving electric/hybrid cars and general energy efficiency while judging our less enlightened compatriots, yet most of us don't bat and eye at hopping on a jet for leisure travel. On the contrary, we often celebrate this as a great good, a way to break down cultural barriers and broaden experiences. I'll be the first to admit that I'm guilty and love travel and will continue to do so. Not sure what I'll do about it. I'm generally skeptical of carbon offsets (seems like Indulgences 2.0). Maybe just cut way back on airline travel?

[stoaX]

Thanks for linking the article.  I came away with a few questions.  In the first paragraph the author talks about driving (carpooling), flying and then a boat ride to get to her destination.  The flying is deemed environmentally the worst  - what was next worse, the driving or the boat ride?  Where would a train ride fit in this hierarchy? How much worse is one vs. the other?

Unless you use the sailboat, bicycle or walk it seems to me that cutting back on travel altogether is environmentally sound thing to do, especially if the driving or boat travel are only incrementally better than air travel. 

My final thought is that, environmental concerns aside, the TSA and the tiny, cramped coach class airline seats have done a lot to lessen my enthusiasm for air travel. 

[A Fella from Stella]

Just heard a TED talk by Dan Ariely about how people in Priuses are always so pleased with themselves because they can be seen driving them around. Reminded me of the South Park where all the Prius drivers loved the smell of their own farts so much they'd lean over to breathe them all in.

[gaja]

Thanks for linking the article.  I came away with a few questions.  In the first paragraph the author talks about driving (carpooling), flying and then a boat ride to get to her destination.  The flying is deemed environmentally the worst  - what was next worse, the driving or the boat ride?  Where would a train ride fit in this hierarchy? How much worse is one vs. the other?

Unless you use the sailboat, bicycle or walk it seems to me that cutting back on travel altogether is environmentally sound thing to do, especially if the driving or boat travel are only incrementally better than air travel. 

My final thought is that, environmental concerns aside, the TSA and the tiny, cramped coach class airline seats have done a lot to lessen my enthusiasm for air travel.

Depends on the boat, and the total journey. Cruiseships are horrible, while mixed transport ships (e.g. ferries that transport both goods and people) are less bad. Since emissions are also correlated to km, a holiday per boat+car is usually less bad than per plane, since the boat and car is so much slower. Very few people go from Europe to Thailand via boat for a 10 day holiday, but it is quite common to do that by plane.

This is CO2 pr person per km. The trains are mainly electric.

[stoaX]

Thanks for linking the article.  I came away with a few questions.  In the first paragraph the author talks about driving (carpooling), flying and then a boat ride to get to her destination.  The flying is deemed environmentally the worst  - what was next worse, the driving or the boat ride?  Where would a train ride fit in this hierarchy? How much worse is one vs. the other?

Unless you use the sailboat, bicycle or walk it seems to me that cutting back on travel altogether is environmentally sound thing to do, especially if the driving or boat travel are only incrementally better than air travel. 

My final thought is that, environmental concerns aside, the TSA and the tiny, cramped coach class airline seats have done a lot to lessen my enthusiasm for air travel.

Depends on the boat, and the total journey. Cruiseships are horrible, while mixed transport ships (e.g. ferries that transport both goods and people) are less bad. Since emissions are also correlated to km, a holiday per boat+car is usually less bad than per plane, since the boat and car is so much slower. Very few people go from Europe to Thailand via boat for a 10 day holiday, but it is quite common to do that by plane.

This is CO2 pr person per km. The trains are mainly electric.

Thanks for the chart - it's nice to have a visual perspective. I wouldn't have though cruiseships were that bad before seeing this.

[RFAAOATB]

Flying is going to have to become a lot more expensive and trains are going to have to become much more luxurious, affordable, and desirable to change our preference.  Considering cruise ships are more polluting than planes, there may be a market for transoceanic passenger ships that are less polluting, but enjoyable enough to be preferable to flying.

[gaja]

Flying is going to have to become a lot more expensive and trains are going to have to become much more luxurious, affordable, and desirable to change our preference.  Considering cruise ships are more polluting than planes, there may be a market for transoceanic passenger ships that are less polluting, but enjoyable enough to be preferable to flying.

Transforming the cruise ship fleet to low emission is relatively easy. It only requires money and stricter regulations - all the technology is readily available: https://www.hurtigruten.com/us/press-releases/2018/hurtigruten-to-power-cruise-ships-with-dead-fish/

[bacchi]

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/25/8881364/flying-shame-climate-change-airline-greta-thunberg

I've poked at this issue somewhat in other threads on this forum. We can get pretty smug about driving electric/hybrid cars and general energy efficiency while judging our less enlightened compatriots, yet most of us don't bat and eye at hopping on a jet for leisure travel. On the contrary, we often celebrate this as a great good, a way to break down cultural barriers and broaden experiences. I'll be the first to admit that I'm guilty and love travel and will continue to do so. Not sure what I'll do about it. I'm generally skeptical of carbon offsets (seems like Indulgences 2.0). Maybe just cut way back on airline travel?

Yeah, traveling is definitely ignored when it comes to "save the planet." It's a FIRE badge, too -- "I'm not poor! I retired early and fly overseas and travel a lot!"

Using a carbon calculator, you can be very low on CO2 tons and fly for 6 hours total/year if you're otherwise very energy frugal. Even then, it doesn't help because everyone else isn't following suit.

Take the train. It's slow, sometimes a pain, often late, but if you have the time, it can be relaxing and encourage thoughtfulness.

[former player]

Flying is going to have to become a lot more expensive and trains are going to have to become much more luxurious, affordable, and desirable to change our preference.  Considering cruise ships are more polluting than planes, there may be a market for transoceanic passenger ships that are less polluting, but enjoyable enough to be preferable to flying.

Being able to take the train from London Waterloo (and then Euston) to Brussels Midi was a complete and utter luxury after years of trekking out to Heathrow and back in from Brussells Zaventem.  The switch can be done.

I haven't taken a plane for holiday purposes since 2001.  That can be done too.