Author Topic: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced  (Read 1606 times)

aceyou

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Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« on: January 28, 2019, 03:59:42 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-28/shutdown-lesson-americans-need-to-save-more

Solid Article.  Author does a good job of laying out the case for a higher savings rate, and does it in a way that is empathetic to those in difficult situations.  Nice balance, and great message. 

MMM was referenced about halfway through, with a link to the website. 


ysette9

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2019, 04:49:22 PM »
That is a nice balance of pointing out that our savings should be higher while being sensitive to difficult situations.

bacchi

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2019, 09:32:25 AM »
But the comments....

"I can't save because the interest rates are so low."

aceyou

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2019, 10:43:19 AM »
Ha, I usually don't look at comments as a rule:) 

Yeah, I'd chalk that up to a defense mechanism.  Like "I'm too busy to work out".  I used that stupid excuse for most of last week.  In reality, I didn't want to get my ass on the bike and get my heartrate up for 30 minutes each day, despite the fact that I'm always happier when I do it...us silly humans!!!  And I'm an athlete who keeps in good shape.

I imagine the defense mechanism excuses must be that much stronger for people in debt and already embarrassed/fearful/anxious about their money situation.  It's hard to see how small changes like $5 here and $2 there will turn a shitty financial situation into meaningful progress when your in a shit situation and you lack basic personal finance knowledge. 

And for you and me, we tie some of our identity/self worth to our financial IQ.  When you've tied much of your identity to your fancy financed truck, your fancy phone, well it's about much more than dollars and cents.  They have to break from that identity and trust that a new better identity will emerge...that can be scary. 

I feel for people who make those kinds of comments. 

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 01:52:34 AM »
Most people just aren't capable enough or clever enough to take care of their own finances. They are like oxen, beasts of burden.

bacchi

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2019, 01:36:29 PM »
They have to break from that identity and trust that a new better identity will emerge...that can be scary. 

That is a profound and very true statement.

pachnik

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2019, 02:38:20 PM »
They have to break from that identity and trust that a new better identity will emerge...that can be scary. 

That is a profound and very true statement.

+1.  reminds me a bit of how a close friend described joining AA (alcoholics anonymous).  You leave your old identity behind - not to mention your drinking buddies - and a new identity slowly emerges. 

aceyou

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2019, 06:02:23 PM »
They have to break from that identity and trust that a new better identity will emerge...that can be scary. 

That is a profound and very true statement.

+1.  reminds me a bit of how a close friend described joining AA (alcoholics anonymous).  You leave your old identity behind - not to mention your drinking buddies - and a new identity slowly emerges.

That's a good analogy.

pecunia

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2019, 06:11:14 PM »
The article noted that both the Europeans and the Chinese save 10 percent or more.  What is different about their cultures?  Was it recent hard times?  Often it seems the Europeans are noted for having a better financial safety net so I would thing the converse would be true.

aceyou

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2019, 06:47:17 AM »
That's a good question. 

With China, the economic hardship argument would support a higher savings rate.  They've had tough times historically, so they could be more hardwired to have a safety net. 

I wonder if with Europe it's differences in their living structure?  For example, as MMMers, we know how much your savings rate will increase if you just get a cheap used reliable automobile.  In Europe, a large percentage of people don't even have cars, and almost no one has a big ass suv or truck.  That could be a big factor.  And healthcare/college costs are things that in the US are rising so fast in cost that it's likely contributing to a lot of the low savings rate.  In Europe much of that is stabilized by socialism, so that could be another factor.  There could just be a lot fewer shocks to the system in Europe that drain peoples savings and emergency stashes than there are here in the US.

I don't really know though, just throwing out guesses.  It's a really interesting question.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2019, 04:39:08 PM »
I suspect because America has fewer safety nets and is generally harsher to stupid/irresponsible people, there is a large proportion of the population who know they will never get ahead - thus they make no effort to.

JZinCO

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2019, 05:27:17 PM »

With China, the economic hardship argument would support a higher savings rate.  They've had tough times historically, so they could be more hardwired to have a safety net. 
I'm with you. I don't think it is apathy.

I think Americans are irrationally exuberant (e.g. Anyone can achieve the American Dream) and discount government, economic and lifestyle risk, where as the Chinese don't, for good reason.
You certainly see high (20-40%) savings rates in undeveloped, developing countries, or the BRIC (not sure if these are considered developed). But there is still alot of noise within higher income countries (for example, https://data.oecd.org/natincome/saving-rate.htm). So the correlation may be transitory as a country develops (which may explain the decline in US savings rates over the 20th Century).
It is also hard to measure savings rate because they count investments in that pool of money. So one could reject my thesis pointing to China. China's per capita GDP has grown yet their savings rate increases with it. However, this may not be fueled by increasing instability but rather because there are more investment opportunities as China transitions from socialism to state-driven capitalism. Another part that goes along with this which may help distinguish countries is culture, especially with regards to beliefs about consumable goods and services.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 05:31:04 PM by JZinCO »

pecunia

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2019, 06:04:37 PM »
A few thoughts just occurred to me about lower US savings rates.  The living standard is slowly going down.  People want to maintain the lifestyle they become accustomed to.  Savings may have to disappear in the attempts to make this happen.  Many people in the US live paycheck to paycheck and even use payday loans.  Credit card bills are another detriment to savings.  Interest rates on credit cards can easily eat up the best plans for saving when the monthly payment comes due.

Do the Chinese and Europeans have the same propensity to buy on credit?

BobTheBuilder

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Re: Bloomberg Article on increasing savings rate...MMM referenced
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2019, 03:30:50 AM »
What I find fascinating about the savings rate in e.g. Germany is that we still have something to save after the taxation. But on the other hand, that taxation guarantees health care to not exceed a few hunred per year even if you are severly ill in almost all cases. So maybe it is not really the input savings rate, but the savings rarely have to be used since most emergency cases are covered (esp. job loss).

And the point about the cars is true as well; we too have seen a shift to SUVs / CUVs recently, but most people drive econo-boxes. My 11 year old Hyundai is still an average car parking in the street were out apartment is located.

BTW, a big newspaper (Handelsblatt) recently featured FIRE and mentioned millennial-revolution.com and probably some german bloggers, but the article is, ironically, behind a paywall.