Ben Franklin: original American Mustachian?

[RosieTR]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/how-america-lost-track-of-benjamin-franklins-definition-of-success/400808/

Thought this article about Ben Franklin was pretty interesting. I'm sure the Autobiography is on some recommended reading lists. I haven't got to that obe yet, but this inspired me to do so soon!

[forummm]

I'm looking to become a "Man of Leisure" myself. Likely Franklin style too (learning stuff, doing good, inventing things).

[Trudie]

Loved this article.  What I would give to travel back in time and have a cup of tea with Ben.

[LennStar]

That guy was definitely one you shoudl know more about it - both for political reasoning and personal advancement.

For example he set out 13 virtues and tried to reach them by counting each time he did not act accourding to them - and found to his horror that he was a quite bad person ;)
Maybe I will find that wonderful article on that again, but with this you may understadn how he worked.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/06/01/the-virtuous-life-wrap-up/

http://www.knowledgehouse.info/Ben%20Franklin%27s%2013%20Virtues%20Chart.pdf

[Marus]

That guy was definitely one you shoudl know more about it - both for political reasoning and personal advancement.

For example he set out 13 virtues and tried to reach them by counting each time he did not act accourding to them - and found to his horror that he was a quite bad person ;)
Maybe I will find that wonderful article on that again, but with this you may understadn how he worked.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/06/01/the-virtuous-life-wrap-up/

http://www.knowledgehouse.info/Ben%20Franklin%27s%2013%20Virtues%20Chart.pdf

I think they really miss the boat on the sincerity one.  If Ben Franklin had access to message boards he'd be the world's greatest troll.  A big part of his business model was using pen-names to attack his opponents and spread gossip.

Nothing against sincerity as a virtue, just trying to keep it real here.  Ben Franklin was savvy enough to realize that it's often more powerful to be virtuous in appearance than in fact.

[LennStar]

Even a murderer could teach you pacifism ;)

[RosieTR]

That guy was definitely one you shoudl know more about it - both for political reasoning and personal advancement.

For example he set out 13 virtues and tried to reach them by counting each time he did not act accourding to them - and found to his horror that he was a quite bad person ;)
Maybe I will find that wonderful article on that again, but with this you may understadn how he worked.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/06/01/the-virtuous-life-wrap-up/

http://www.knowledgehouse.info/Ben%20Franklin%27s%2013%20Virtues%20Chart.pdf

I think they really miss the boat on the sincerity one.  If Ben Franklin had access to message boards he'd be the world's greatest troll.  A big part of his business model was using pen-names to attack his opponents and spread gossip.

Nothing against sincerity as a virtue, just trying to keep it real here.  Ben Franklin was savvy enough to realize that it's often more powerful to be virtuous in appearance than in fact.

I wonder if business back then was like now. Immediately I thought no way could I do that at work. There are sooo many times I practice Silence rather than Sincerity! Sometimes it's with other's personal things but far more often it's stuff I'm encouraged to do or whatever. Sometimes it's less silence than mild implication. Yes, I'll do that certification. Yes I'm planning to work here for years. No I'm not prepping up my resume to shop around. Not that work's all that bad compared to some, just that I don't think it's "normal" in our current culture to really be sincere in many workplaces.

[Marus]

That guy was definitely one you shoudl know more about it - both for political reasoning and personal advancement.

For example he set out 13 virtues and tried to reach them by counting each time he did not act accourding to them - and found to his horror that he was a quite bad person ;)
Maybe I will find that wonderful article on that again, but with this you may understadn how he worked.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/06/01/the-virtuous-life-wrap-up/

http://www.knowledgehouse.info/Ben%20Franklin%27s%2013%20Virtues%20Chart.pdf

I think they really miss the boat on the sincerity one.  If Ben Franklin had access to message boards he'd be the world's greatest troll.  A big part of his business model was using pen-names to attack his opponents and spread gossip.

Nothing against sincerity as a virtue, just trying to keep it real here.  Ben Franklin was savvy enough to realize that it's often more powerful to be virtuous in appearance than in fact.

I wonder if business back then was like now. Immediately I thought no way could I do that at work. There are sooo many times I practice Silence rather than Sincerity! Sometimes it's with other's personal things but far more often it's stuff I'm encouraged to do or whatever. Sometimes it's less silence than mild implication. Yes, I'll do that certification. Yes I'm planning to work here for years. No I'm not prepping up my resume to shop around. Not that work's all that bad compared to some, just that I don't think it's "normal" in our current culture to really be sincere in many workplaces.

Totally agree.  It's great if you've got a workplace where you can trust your boss and your coworkers, (or if you're a blogger I guess) but that's simply not always going to be the case.  If everyone else is playing political games, being Mr. Sincerity is going to get you eaten alive or outcasted.  Depending on your goals, deception and bullshitting can be fantastic tools.

[LennStar]

Then you can sincerily use deception and bullshitting.


Yeah, its bad how bad the world is. But its not going to be better if you try to be on top of the bad.

[Doubleh]

As they say sincerity is the key - once you can fake that you've got it made!

[Marus]

Then you can sincerily use deception and bullshitting.


Yeah, its bad how bad the world is. But its not going to be better if you try to be on top of the bad.

What if my plan is to get on top of the bad and then use my power for good?  If I were President I could make a lot of great changes to the world.  Who cares if I have to be insincere now and then to make it happen?

I don't actually believe this (which is probably why I could never be a politician).  But I think it may be too simplistic to outright say that sincerity is "virtuous".  A lot of people would say Trump is the most sincere man running for office right now.  Is it really a good thing if the things you're sincere about are things that decent people would be ashamed to admit?  For example, what if being sincere about your racism just encourages other people to be racist too?  Is that something we should be celebrating?