"We’ve been led into a culture that has been engineered to leave us tired, hungr

[Rekreativc]

Quite the mustachian article

[zug]

This article was great and very thought provoking - thanks!

It makes me so angry every time I think about the misery that a lot of westerners find themselves in is heavily encouraged because it makes companies money. So it's hurting people, it's destroying the environment, but that's ok because businesses want money? Ugh.

[kt]

a really well put article. i have a few bookmarked which say something similar but this certainly made a stronger point about the 8 hour work day.
it is a shame that it's hard to go part-time for so many jobs without freelancing. i certainly in my head would like to work say 30 hours a week and spend the extra 10 hours on productive work at home like gardening or baking.

[Jamesqf]

I dunno...  Spending nine months travelling, with probably lots of airline miles, hotel rooms, drinking gourmet coffee on the patio, and so on isn't mindless consumption?  (Of course if the writer was e.g. bike touring or something this doesn't apply.)

[uspsfanalan]

"I’ve only been back at work for a few days, but already I’m noticing that the more wholesome activities are quickly dropping out of my life: walking, exercising, reading, meditating, and extra writing.

The one conspicuous similarity between these activities is that they cost little or no money, but they take time."

In a similar note, I've noticed that in cultures that are economically poor they give their gift of time rather than possessions. A friend of mine was raised in Ethiopia for most of her childhood. Many of the dishes she makes take all day to cook. She makes coffee in a traditional Ethiopian coffee pot and it takes a lot more time to make, however the taste is amazing. In western culture time is our luxury.

[Phoebe]

Great article - thanks for posting!!

One of my favorite lines:

I’m talking about small-scale, casual, promiscuous spending on stuff that doesn’t really add a whole lot to my life

[dragoncar]

Totally correct.  I am so hungr.

[James]

 "For the economy to be “healthy,” America has to remain unhealthy."

Way too defeatist for me.  It may not happen, but the fact is that a healthy America could be happy and healthy, mustachian even.  Again, I'm not saying it will be, but saying it can't is wrong and sends the wrong message.

Otherwise lots of good points made.

[unitsinc]

"For the economy to be “healthy,” America has to remain unhealthy."

Way too defeatist for me.  It may not happen, but the fact is that a healthy America could be happy and healthy, mustachian even.  Again, I'm not saying it will be, but saying it can't is wrong and sends the wrong message.

Otherwise lots of good points made.

Well, to some degree I feel like he has something of a point. Our economy is definitely based on perpetual growth. Meaning buying more and spending more. So while it is a bit whiny, there is some grain of truth in there.

[James]

Well, to some degree I feel like he has something of a point. Our economy is definitely based on perpetual growth. Meaning buying more and spending more. So while it is a bit whiny, there is some grain of truth in there.

No argument with that truth, it is based on that now, but economies change, gradually and very hard to control, but they do change and can change for the better.  I think mustachianism combines a better lifestyle with optimism for the system changing as well.

[TwoWheels]

That makes two awesome articles from Raptitude that have been posted here recently. I'll have to check out the rest of the site sometime.

Lately, though, I've been feeling a vague cognitive dissonance when I read about how "big business" is so heartlessly engineering our lives for its own benefit. Zug, I think your post helped me put my finger on it...

It makes me so angry every time I think about the misery that a lot of westerners find themselves in is heavily encouraged because it makes companies money. So it's hurting people, it's destroying the environment, but that's ok because businesses want money? Ugh.

Though I agree that it's pretty despicable, it doesn't make me angry because:
- Yes, the people who head corporations are profiting immensely at the expense of the general public, but it only works because the general public is choosing to allow it. If your kid nags you to buy some piece of junk toy and you give in, the fault does not rest with the marketing department that targeted its ads at children. It rests with you, the consumer, the person who exercised his free will to buy the product.
- We live in a relatively free society, one where business owners are free to use devious social pressures to ensnare consumers and we are free to venture off the beaten path and spread ideas that run contrary to the status quo. And I'm not convinced it can work any other way. If the government had so much power that it could prevent businesses from profiting immensely at the expense of the general public, it would also be (at least potentially) capable of serious infringement on personal liberties.

Perhaps I'm reading too far into it...my reaction could just be due to living for too long in a city whose political climate rubs me the wrong way.

[zug]

It's a very tricky issue, TwoWheels.

One the one hand, you're right. People absolutely do have the freedom to make different choices, including not following the mainstream.

But that freedom that you and I experience isn't necessarily as true for everybody in America. It presupposes a good enough education to have both literacy and numeracy, or at least the ability to learn both, and the latter in particular is far from universal. Pretty hard to make investments if you can't read well or don't have basic math skills.

You have to have regular access to the internet and enough free time away from work and children to spend hunting around on it in order to stumble across a site that points out the possibility of FIRE (I'm frugal, but I wouldn't have come up with the MMM/ERE "system" on my own. Would you have?). How often does it come up in the forums how unsupportive people's friends and family are? Even if you did figure it out entirely on your own, without the resources of the forums and other people who have proven that they can do it, I think many people would start to question their plans when everybody around them universally thinks they are crazy for trying.

Humans are social creatures - much of our learning and understanding of the possibilities that the world offers comes from the people around us. We do absolutely have the freedom to ignore all of that, but it's not as simple as snapping one's fingers and saying "ah-ha!". You have to have intelligence, education, discipline, and a bit of luck (like, say, not getting pregnant at 14) to pull it off. I love that MMM and ERE treat people like they're smart enough to figure it out for themselves, it's an incredibly refreshing attitude, but unfortunately it isn't necessarily the case if you don't have the basics of logic and reasoning down.

So that's why it makes me angry.

[momo]

It makes me so angry every time I think about the misery that a lot of westerners find themselves in is heavily encouraged because it makes companies money. So it's hurting people, it's destroying the environment, but that's ok because businesses want money? Ugh.

Personally the article does not bother me but I do empathize.  I find living a stress reduced lifestyle has a lot to do with knowing what each of us can and cannot control in our lives, making decisions and taking full responsibility for our actions. To me it is all about personal CHOICES that each of us make. Regardless of what companies do to make a profit I can choose to buy a car (or not), buy a diamond (or not), buy a home (or not), drink coffee (or not), or countless other consumer activities. Having said that if you don't mind sharing zug, what ideas do you have to improve the situation? THanks.

[zug]

I think the solutions are pretty straightforward (totally different from easy).

If kids growing up in America came out of public schools able to read and understand basic math/statistics and maybe even rudimentary logic, that would go a long way. Having government agencies who set up and enforce rules relating to dangerous/unfair/unclear advertising so that you don't have to scrutinize every ad for lies would go a long way (e.g. APR disclosure for loan sharks/check cashing operations, lying in advertising, MLM schemes). We don't really even need new laws, just enough funding to actually enforce the ones on the books (I lived in a poor neighborhood for a while, and I frequently saw blatant lies in ads targeted at locals).

In a more one-on-one way, I think being willing to talk about your FIRE plans with people you know helps - even if people aren't receptive in that moment, you never know who is going to think of that conversation down the road and start researching it themselves. Pointing out the absurdity of anti-mustachian ways can be a powerful motivator for people consuming mainly to show status. Writing your own blog on the topic and linking to other FIRE blogs is another great thing to spread the word - if the idea snowballs and more people realize it exists, it certainly has the potential to change our culture and mainstream perceptions of what is possible.