Author Topic: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club  (Read 19013 times)

diapasoun

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Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« on: October 15, 2020, 03:36:58 PM »
This thread is dedicated to (re-)reading Austen's work with a Mustachian eye: What frugality and spendypants-ness do we see in daily life in Austen's work? What broader social/economic factors are at play in these stories? How is Austen's status as a middle-class woman writing about the rich reflected in her works? and any other questions we may have. :) If we're feeling riotous, maybe we'll even read authors other than Austen.

Schedule:

October--November 2020: Sense and Sensibility (Project Gutenberg)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 04:15:09 PM by diapasoun »

Life in Balance

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2020, 03:44:05 PM »
I'm interested in reading and discussing Austen (and others in future)!!

Kris

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2020, 04:10:50 PM »
I’m totally here for this. Excited to do a reread of these books.

TomTX

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2020, 04:11:56 PM »
Since we're "all in" and Mustachian - here's the Project Gutenberg link for Sense and Sensibility:

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/161

mspym

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2020, 04:14:13 PM »
I am IN

diapasoun

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2020, 04:14:40 PM »
Thanks, TomTX! I'll update the main post with the PG link. :)

chaskavitch

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2020, 04:16:31 PM »
Yay!

Rural

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2020, 04:24:22 PM »
Woot!

snacky

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2020, 04:50:14 PM »
Yay!

Zoot

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2020, 05:10:48 PM »
Oh, yes, very yes, I'm in. 

I've never actually been part of a book club--shocking, I know.  ;-)  How does this work?

Kris

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2020, 05:18:01 PM »
Oh, yes, very yes, I'm in. 

I've never actually been part of a book club--shocking, I know.  ;-)  How does this work?

Well, you come here with a glass of wine, and pretend you’ve read it...

And then we talk about everything but the book.

Just kidding. I think here, people will actually read and discuss.

mspym

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2020, 05:35:29 PM »
Oh, yes, very yes, I'm in. 

I've never actually been part of a book club--shocking, I know.  ;-)  How does this work?

Well, you come here with a glass of wine, and pretend you’ve read it...

And then we talk about everything but the book.
Can confirm.

englishteacheralex

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2020, 06:11:46 PM »
Here! Been awhile since I read S&S.

TomTX

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2020, 06:48:05 PM »
Thanks, TomTX! I'll update the main post with the PG link. :)

Now I just need to find the Rated MA version.... ;)

pachnik

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2020, 06:58:07 PM »
I am definitely in too!

Hadilly

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2020, 09:37:03 PM »
Very cool! I will start rereading.

Raenia

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2020, 05:53:24 AM »
Sounds fun, I'm in!

YoungGranny

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2020, 06:23:45 AM »
I am in as well!

economista

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2020, 07:49:39 AM »
I'm in too!

the_hobbitish

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2020, 04:51:40 PM »
I've never read it, which feels like something I should do instead of just watching the movies. Excited to join.

314159

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2020, 01:29:36 PM »
I will join! I just read my first Austen novel, P&P, a month or two ago and quite liked it.

former player

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2020, 04:16:47 PM »
I'm in.  I haven't read S & S since seeing the Emma Thompson film, so I suspect there's a lot I've forgotten.

Are we on a schedule for getting through the chapters or is it read at will?

Cyanne

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2020, 04:19:14 PM »
I’m in too!

centwise

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2020, 05:18:48 PM »
PTF!

rab-bit

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2020, 05:59:03 PM »
PTF

calimom

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2020, 07:34:24 PM »
Just placed a request at my library, so I'm in too. Any idea the discussion format? As we go  along, or all at once starting at a certain date?

Kitsunegari

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2020, 09:31:16 PM »
I'm in!

diapasoun

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2020, 10:17:18 AM »
Hey all! I'm so excited to see so many people raring to go on this -- it's fantastic.

I think given how many of us there are (and how busy so many folks on these boards are), it would be difficult to hold everyone to a "read these chapters during these weeks" type of schedule. That being said, I do think it makes sense to have some sort of discussion springboard -- not limiting ourselves to only discussing particular chapters, but rather taking the events of particular chapters as our starting point for talking about what we see in the frugality/personal finance and broader economics of the book.

Handily, we have approximately six weeks between now and the end of November, and Sense and Sensibility is divided into three "books." What do people think about having the following "springboard" schedule?

October 19--November 1: Book 1
November 2--November 15: Book 2
November 16--30 November: Book 3

pachnik

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2020, 10:29:18 AM »
Sounds good to me.   Thanks for organizing us too!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 10:50:51 AM by pachnik »

Raenia

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2020, 10:38:20 AM »
Sounds perfect!

Kris

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2020, 11:55:40 AM »
That works!

mspym

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2020, 01:46:51 PM »
Sounds good to me and thank you @diapasoun for taking the lead on organising this

diapasoun

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2020, 01:52:44 PM »
My very deep pleasure.

Kris

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2020, 04:12:24 PM »
Hey all! I'm so excited to see so many people raring to go on this -- it's fantastic.

I think given how many of us there are (and how busy so many folks on these boards are), it would be difficult to hold everyone to a "read these chapters during these weeks" type of schedule. That being said, I do think it makes sense to have some sort of discussion springboard -- not limiting ourselves to only discussing particular chapters, but rather taking the events of particular chapters as our starting point for talking about what we see in the frugality/personal finance and broader economics of the book.

Handily, we have approximately six weeks between now and the end of November, and Sense and Sensibility is divided into three "books." What do people think about having the following "springboard" schedule?

October 19--November 1: Book 1
November 2--November 15: Book 2
November 16--30 November: Book 3

Just a heads up: different versions of the book may not divide it into parts the same way yours does — or even have the same chapters (this is normal with 19th century books). Mine doesn’t have books, and is divided into fifty chapters. Could you give the chapter numbers to the books so we’re all... ahem... on the same page? :P

diapasoun

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2020, 04:26:47 PM »
Hey all! I'm so excited to see so many people raring to go on this -- it's fantastic.

I think given how many of us there are (and how busy so many folks on these boards are), it would be difficult to hold everyone to a "read these chapters during these weeks" type of schedule. That being said, I do think it makes sense to have some sort of discussion springboard -- not limiting ourselves to only discussing particular chapters, but rather taking the events of particular chapters as our starting point for talking about what we see in the frugality/personal finance and broader economics of the book.

Handily, we have approximately six weeks between now and the end of November, and Sense and Sensibility is divided into three "books." What do people think about having the following "springboard" schedule?

October 19--November 1: Book 1
November 2--November 15: Book 2
November 16--30 November: Book 3

Just a heads up: different versions of the book may not divide it into parts the same way yours does — or even have the same chapters (this is normal with 19th century books). Mine doesn’t have books, and is divided into fifty chapters. Could you give the chapter numbers to the books so we’re all... ahem... on the same page? :P

Haha, yes, makes sense that a lot of editions would get rid of the volume distinctions!

Volume 1 is chapters 1-22.
Volume 2 is chapters 23-36.
Volume 3 is chapters 37-50.

Thanks, Kris!

LightTripper

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2020, 09:15:49 AM »
Hello!  I'd like to join too.  Apart from anything else I'm struggling to make time for reading but I think this would give me the prompt I need!

Miss Piggybank

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2020, 09:40:00 AM »
Joining! Thanks so much for organizing this! It's been years since I read S&S, and I wasn't in the FI frame of mind then.

tygertygertyger

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2020, 09:56:45 AM »
Yes please.

snacky

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2020, 03:13:23 PM »
Those first couple of chapters are straight out of the inheritance drama thread. I almost want to modernize the language and post it over there to see who notices.

diapasoun

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2020, 05:18:12 PM »
Those first couple of chapters are straight out of the inheritance drama thread. I almost want to modernize the language and post it over there to see who notices.

I double dog dare you.

I think I'm going to start reading tonight. Copious Kindle notes, here we come!

LightTripper

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2020, 06:24:11 AM »
Yes do it!  It's a pretty amazing state of affairs isn't it?

Although I suspect it wouldn't ring true today because the scenario of having to live with the awful SIL just wouldn't really transpire would it?
 It makes you realise how much we are freed by (a) technology and (b) loosened social conventions.  As much as "keeping up with the Joneses" is still a thing, their need to stay within travelling distance of their relatives (presumably quite a small distance) and to find a property that was small enough to be financially manageable while still being socially appropriate in some sense left them in a hard position.

It reminded me of those memes about imagining if Covid had struck in 2005 rather than 2020 and we'd all be sitting at home playing snake on our Nokias... and more seriously how much more difficult it would have been for many of us without the level of access to work, entertainment and even groceries etc. that many of us have in our homes today.  Thinking about how much even the last 15 years of technical progress have made a difference to our lives, it's interesting to think about how the improvement in transport networks as well as women's rights and ability to get an education and make our own way in the world have improved our lives (even relative to the very privileged lives depicted in S&S) since Austen's day.

snacky

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2020, 08:45:53 AM »
Their position of dependency reminds me of adults with disabilities. They might have an awful relationship with their siblings or other close relatives, but they might be forced to keep the relationship out of necessity. Many wills have different provisions for disabled heirs that keep them dependent on other heirs.

pachnik

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2020, 03:08:54 PM »
I am thinking of Edward Ferrars who is dependant on his mother.  Able-bodied man who attended university but didn't have a profession because the ones that appealed to him weren't good enough for his mother.   So I guess he just waits and hopes that she'll settle some $$$ on him so he can have an independent life.   

tygertygertyger

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2020, 08:20:49 PM »
This is really different from the pleasure Austen reading I've done before. Now I'm taking careful notes of their conversation around how much you need a year to be comfortable, and what they would spend their money on if they were rich. It's delightful and sobering, all together.

Oh, and all the mentions of adding an addition to the cottage, if they have the money.... would it be common to add an addition to a 12 month rental? That seems so odd, since they keep mentioning their own money as not being sufficient.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 09:26:37 PM by tygertygertyger »

Miss Piggybank

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2020, 03:39:34 PM »
The conversation between John Dashwood and his wife is so painfully familiar. People are so good at justifying their own selfishness. I admit I've talked myself down after initial generous charitable impulses myself.

Reading these novels also makes me more curious about the finances of the lower classes. "Genteel poverty" that still includes three servants (where do they live?) seems pretty good.

teen persuasion

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2020, 01:21:28 PM »
This is really different from the pleasure Austen reading I've done before. Now I'm taking careful notes of their conversation around how much you need a year to be comfortable, and what they would spend their money on if they were rich. It's delightful and sobering, all together.

Oh, and all the mentions of adding an addition to the cottage, if they have the money.... would it be common to add an addition to a 12 month rental? That seems so odd, since they keep mentioning their own money as not being sufficient.
Additions to a rental sounds odd to me, too.

I think maybe that's the point - Austen is showing how stupid people are with their money (planning big, expensive spending when they don't have extra to spend anyways).

snowball

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2020, 02:49:37 AM »
I think you're right that the mentions of adding to the rented cottage are mostly to illustrate financial foolishness.  That said, I feel there are some additional threads here as well.

For one thing, the cousin who owns the cottage is generously letting them stay there at a reduced rent (possibly extremely reduced? not sure the book ever gets into details about that).  So if the Dashwoods were able to add value to the building, it would repay him to some extent.  Of course their circumstances (and frugality capabilities) are such that they can't actually do this - but if they talk about doing it, and intend to do it, then maybe it helps them feel less like they're taking charity, and like they're not quite so completely dependent on their web of relations and social-capital connections in order to maintain their way of life.

I feel like talking about these cottage renovations as a realistic future plan is also a way to...maintain some of the same social status.  As upper class women, there seems to be a level of expectation that they should not have to worry about watching their pennies (at the same time that there's an acknowledgement that falling into genteel poverty can and does happen, and that it's something you should be practical about).  And the older two daughters are of marriageable age, so it's a very sensitive time for them - what happens now will shape the entire rest of their lives.  So I think their mother would want to emphasize that they're all still...ladies, down to the bone, and that their temporarily reduced circumstances haven't made a dent in their behaviour or their expectations of the level of quality of life that the world rightfully owes them.

pachnik

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2020, 09:28:08 AM »
I think you're right that the mentions of adding to the rented cottage are mostly to illustrate financial foolishness.  That said, I feel there are some additional threads here as well.

I feel like talking about these cottage renovations as a realistic future plan is also a way to...maintain some of the same social status.  As upper class women, there seems to be a level of expectation that they should not have to worry about watching their pennies (at the same time that there's an acknowledgement that falling into genteel poverty can and does happen, and that it's something you should be practical about).  And the older two daughters are of marriageable age, so it's a very sensitive time for them - what happens now will shape the entire rest of their lives.  So I think their mother would want to emphasize that they're all still...ladies, down to the bone, and that their temporarily reduced circumstances haven't made a dent in their behaviour or their expectations of the level of quality of life that the world rightfully owes them.

Interesting point, Snowball.  The 'job' of Elinor and Marianne is to get married as well as they can.  This is their future. 

snowball

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2020, 03:41:03 AM »
Yes...it's their only really acceptable career path, and they have a limited window of time during which they're considered eligible marital prospects.

And they're lucky!  Most women in this time period are much less privileged and much worse off.

I'm so glad I don't live back then and I have so many more choices for my life...

mspym

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Re: Austen With A Mustachian Twist! Ongoing Book Club
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2020, 03:54:30 AM »
I think I'm a week behind the schedule having just finished book 1 now. [shakes fist at prior obligation to another bookclub]

£400-500 a year is really genteel poverty for 4 women of their class. Rent on the cottage would have been £10-25 a year, servants probably £70-80 a year for all three. Talk of extending the cottage is in the realm of fantasy - Austen points out that it would be paid for out of the savings of someone who have never saved in her life before - but it does allow them to maintain their class.

First book seems to be setting up the themes of familial duty, enforced by financial control, and marriage as career.
- It's reckless and fool of Marianne [16!] to become openly smitten with Willoughby without him putting a ring on it. At least Lucy Steele got the legally binding engagement and her defense of her position vis a vis Elinor wasn't just This Man is Mine - it's also defense of her path out of shabby gentility and into the gentry.
- Willoughby tries to gift Marianne a horse that would have required the purchase of another horse, a groom and the construction of a stable. Nice thought buster - give the girl a gift that will bankrupt her family!
- Sir Middleton would have been 33 when he married Lady Middleton at 18 or 20. She's now 26 and the mother of 4.
- Mrs Palmer's talk of inviting the Dashwood sisters to Town was all about giving them access to more promising bachelors. Sadly, it could take their entire annual income to fund a Season - pretty risky investment for the family, unless you have connections to help you offset some of the costs.
- Marianne holds that 27 is Too Old for a woman to inspire any sort of romance and this hideous spinster's best hope is to become a nursemaid in return for security.
- I think that the original owner of Norland Park secured the estate on John Dashwood's son and only gave a life interest to Mr Dashwood as a way of escaping death duties. I'm not completely sure of the tax implications but I think if he was no longer the owner when he died, that's one set of death duties avoided, another set avoided when Mr Dashwood dies, and then a third when John Dashwood dies. Meanwhile the estate presumably grows prosperous during the long life of the toddler heir.
- Overall Barton Cottage does seem pretty Mustachian - they're drawing and playing music and walking everywhere.