Poll

How do Mustachian couples decide whether to have one more kid when the husband wants X and the wife wants X+1 kids?

They have the lower # of kids (X kids), because you shouldn't force another kid on someone.
36 (59%)
They do what the wife wants (X+1 kids), because what mama wants mama gets.
25 (41%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?  (Read 2987 times)

meatface

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Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« on: August 23, 2017, 06:24:23 AM »
Yesterday, my wife and I were discussing the principle by which we thought other Mustachians made decisions to have (or not have) more kids when the couple disagrees on the number. For the sake of this post, assume that the husband wants X kids, and the wife wants X+1 kids (e.g., if "X"=3, then "X+1"=4).

Principle #1: What mama wants, mama gets
She thinks that, in general, the couple will end up doing whatever the woman wants. So if the husband wants 3 and the wife wants 4, then more often than not, she thinks that the couple will end up having the 4th kid. She's not arguing whether that's right or not; she just thinks that's what happens more often than not, because what mama wants mama gets.

Principle #2: Don't have an unwanted kid
I, on the other hand, argued that Mustachian couples will have the fewer # of kids because it's unhealthy (relationship-wise) to impose an additional kid on someone who doesn't want it. That is, if the husband is cool with 3 but really doesn't want 4, then they will agree to stick to 3 kids.

I'm not suggesting there are right or wrong answers. I'm just curious how YOU think other Mustachians decide/settle such a fundamental difference. As we've seen from the news recently (Anna Faris/Chris Pratt), such an important difference and inability to settle it can contribute to marriage problems.

reeshau

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2017, 12:08:13 PM »
My wife said she would have the first two, and I could have as many more as I wanted to give birth to.

So, not quite your scenario #1, but when the argument is "Dad wants more" then there is an imbalance of power in the decision.

GuitarStv

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2017, 12:21:19 PM »
Pregnancy and infancy was horrible enough that both of us immediately decided to never have another.  :P

little_brown_dog

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2017, 12:50:26 PM »

How about a 3rd option -what about letting nature decide for you?

Go off birth control and have regular, but not necessarily planned/timed sex as desired over say 6 months. If you get pregnant, you have your answer. If you don’t, you can either stop playing or extend the game by mutual agreement. Rules of the game: no sabotage, no active trying involving timing ovulation or whatever, no unreasonable timeframes. Timeframe should be evidence based and unbiased…say 6mo as this is the average time to conceive for healthy couples. Too short a timeframe skews the game in your favor, too long skews it in hers.

(I’m saying this a bit tongue-in-cheek, but hell it is another option to consider!)

iowajes

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2017, 12:58:58 PM »
The argument is a bit sexist.  The answer should be the same regardless of which spouse wants X and which wants X+1.

I think if wife wants more; she doesn't necessarily get more. And she shouldn't be the automatic winner.
But if wife is done, but husband isn't; I really have a hard time saying it is still up for discussion. The burden of pregnancy is a hell of a lot greater on the woman than the man.
If husband is done, but wife isn't; well then the argument can go on a bit longer.


The problem is, there usually isn't a "winner" in these arguments. If there is truly a disagreement in the number of kids; marriages often don't last.


Husband decided after 12 years of no kids, that despite saying he wanted kids, he didn't want them. I wanted them. We went with "nature decide". We got pregnant, had a stillbirth. That made me realize I wasn't okay with nature deciding. Husband didn't really want a kid (I think) but decided being married to me was more important than being childfree. We have a kid now. Husband really likes her.  He's indifferent to second kid, I'm pretty tragically torn.  This is a way complicated issue in our house.

FrugalToque

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 01:00:41 PM »
Yesterday, my wife and I were discussing the principle by which we thought other Mustachians made decisions to have (or not have) more kids when the couple disagrees on the number. For the sake of this post, assume that the husband wants X kids, and the wife wants X+1 kids (e.g., if "X"=3, then "X+1"=4).

I'm not sure what you meant by "for the sake of this post, assume ...".  It looks like, on average, men are the ones wanting to have more children:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/actually-men-have-always-wanted-children-more-than-women/article23681771/

If we take your "assume" statement the way you probably meant it, "Let's say we have a marriage where the mother wants one more than the father."  I can't imagine which way that would go.  In an honest, open relationship, you don't want to be creating human beings against one partner's wishes.  That seems crazy, but I'm sure it's done (both ways).  There's probably a stat on it somewhere though.

Speaking for ourselves, Mrs. Toque and I had always said, "Two or more".  Then we had the second one and, shortly after his birth, we both said, "Yeah, two pregnancies was quite enough.  Thanks."

Toque.

PoutineLover

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 01:10:02 PM »
I don't really like the premise of the question or the two options. Deciding to have kids and how many should be a mutual decision, not forced on either parent, regardless of gender. It should also be discussed before making financial and life commitments to each other. In the end, life is unpredictable too (you could get pregnant with twins after only wanting one, could be infertile and have to consider alternatives) and it's important to be flexible enough to deal with those unexpected situations too.

jezebel

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 01:14:33 PM »
It is a weird starting premise to assume that the woman wants more children and does come across as a bit sexist.  But any relationship where one person gets what they want by virtue of their sex sounds like a big red flag.   

However, I agree that, as a generally rule, when a woman does not want to have more children, the conversation is probably soon over since child bearing is physically strenuous and can have permanent consequences. 

mm1970

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 01:18:04 PM »
Hubby wanted 2, I wanted zero.  Many years later, he talked me into 1.  We'd been married 10 years when he was born.

#1 talked us in to #2 (when he was 3.5 and cute), but we were kinda old by then.  Tried, didn't happen, gave up.  Then it happened. 

Luckily I was 42 by then, there ain't gonna be a third.

FrugalToque

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 01:34:37 PM »
Mrs. Toque and I were surprised, upon attending a pre-marital advice course, to find that a large number of engaged couples hadn't actually discussed how many children they wanted to have and when they wanted to start.

By the second day of the course, we were naturally less surprised to discover that many other couples also hadn't discussed: what religion their children would be raised in, what school system the kids would attend, where they would live, whether or not mom or dad would stop work for the kids, joint/separate bank accounts, who would cook the most, who would clean ...

By the end of the weekend, we began to understand the divorce rate.

"You ought to spend at least as much time planning your marriage as your wedding." - the people running the course.

Toque.

CindyBS

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 01:48:54 PM »
I can't answer your quiz, because what this mama wanted was the fewer number of kids. 

We have 2.  I was 90% sure I wanted 2, DH would have more.

After #1 was a preemie and #2 was after a very difficult pregnancy with 3 months of bedrest, my 90% turned to 100%.  I was done at 2.  Dh would have more but between the pregnancy issues and the fact I was the one staying home with them, he was ok with only 2. 

iowajes

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 01:54:46 PM »
Mrs. Toque and I were surprised, upon attending a pre-marital advice course, to find that a large number of engaged couples hadn't actually discussed how many children they wanted to have and when they wanted to start.

By the second day of the course, we were naturally less surprised to discover that many other couples also hadn't discussed: what religion their children would be raised in, what school system the kids would attend, where they would live, whether or not mom or dad would stop work for the kids, joint/separate bank accounts, who would cook the most, who would clean ...

By the end of the weekend, we began to understand the divorce rate.

"You ought to spend at least as much time planning your marriage as your wedding." - the people running the course.

Toque.

My premarital counseling was when a financial advisor estimated we needed $10 million for retirement.
Also, when asked my dream car, and I said Prius, the next day he came back with an estimated $60k cost for it, because that wasn't on his list.


(But husband and I had talked about all those things on your list before we went, except school system, as we were in the military so we'd have no idea where we would live to pick schools. We were not encouraged during the counseling to talk about family size, as it was Catholic counseling, so clearly God got to decide that. We had decided on 2. As mentioned previously, by the time we were ready to have them, DH had changed his mind. I did ask him if he actually changed his mind, or if he lied to me tp get me to marry him. He said he did not lie.)

BAM

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2017, 02:16:23 PM »
Talking about it beforehand doesn't always work out. Our original plan: We would have 2. DH would stay home with them while I worked (I started my master's shortly after we were married - we had our first 2 1/2 years after I graduated). They would go to public school and he would go back to work then.
We now have 9 (mutual decision). I have been staying home since just before our first was born almost 21 years ago. We homeschool.
So, yeah, talk about it but don't hold on too tightly - you never know what will change.

Milizard

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2017, 06:16:47 PM »
Wow--9!  I  have a  friend with that many, actually.  Maybe more now, as she fosters.   My hats off to you.  I  have difficulty with the chaos from just 2.

As for my DH and I,  of course we discussed it before marriage!  Damn.  We've didn't do great on the  premarital test they gave us, but how do you go into marriage without seeing if you're at least somewhere on the same page with that?  Crazy!

My DH wanted 2. I  wanted 2 or 3 until after giving birth to my second. Then I wanted 8! (Pregnancy hormones)  I  may have pushed harder for one more, but we were old when we started.  Plus, my DH doesn't more of the house work, I gotta say.  Maybe that person gets to decide.

marty998

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2017, 06:39:45 AM »
Talking about it beforehand doesn't always work out. Our original plan: We would have 2. DH would stay home with them while I worked (I started my master's shortly after we were married - we had our first 2 1/2 years after I graduated). They would go to public school and he would go back to work then.
We now have 9 (mutual decision). I have been staying home since just before our first was born almost 21 years ago. We homeschool.
So, yeah, talk about it but don't hold on too tightly - you never know what will change.

Umm...probably a TMI question, but how do you find the time to have sex for the 9th when you've got 8 running around the house to look after?


BAM

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2017, 07:56:45 AM »
Marty998:
Your question made me laugh. You wouldn't believe the question people ask when you have a big family - more TMI than yours.
Let's just say that you get creative when you want/need to be.
And, truthfully, it's probably similar to how you find time to have sex with 1-2 running around.

Milizard:
I actually found 1-2 to be more difficult which I know sounds crazy since I had a mom of 8 say that to me when I only had 4, 5 and under. I thought she was nuts but it's really true. Part of it is due to the fact that they grow up and become more helpful and more independent. I had posted in another post that when I was preg with my 9th, my DH and I had gone to an ultrasound appt and then Costco while the other 8 were at home. By the time we got home, they had cleaned the whole house, made/eaten lunch, had dinner pre-prep done and DH/I had done the week's/month's shopping. All finished in about 1/2-3/4 of a day.
And, like some one performing any other task, you get better at it as you go. I find it much easier now then I did when I only had my first two (my first two are 12 months apart so they get grouped together most of the time). I have a better idea of how to handle things, what's actually important enough to need my time/attention, what needs to be dealt with vs what's just a stage that will pass. You get faster too - changing diapers is now second nature and can be done very quickly although I usually use this time to play with my 2 year old so it gets longer there.
That's not to say that it's not busy and loud and chaotic but there is always sending them outside to play : ).

jac941

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2017, 08:08:53 AM »
Umm, sexist question?

My husband wanted 3, I wanted 0. We discussed before marriage and realized that someone needed to compromise or the marriage wasn't going to happen. We have 2. There will be no more.

FrugalToque

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2017, 08:23:06 AM »
Umm, sexist question?

My husband wanted 3, I wanted 0. We discussed before marriage and realized that someone needed to compromise or the marriage wasn't going to happen. We have 2. There will be no more.

That was one of the points made in our pre-marital counseling: you can disagree, but you'd better known very well that you are disagreeing before you get married.  The surprise, to Mrs. Toque and I, was the number of fights breaking out during the question and answer sessions.  "Of course I'm quitting my job and staying home when we have kids!"  "What? I don't make enough money for that!"

The other unexpected development was that, despite being run by the Catholic Church (we were getting married there for reasons of family, tradition and convenience), they had a very open discussion session on birth control, frequency of religious observance, and other such matters.  It seemed to us, in that particular church, that the priest and married couples running it were far more interested in keeping the divorce rate down than pounding doctrine into us.

That said, one already married couple did volunteer that they had both wanted children before marriage, then changed their minds after.  These things happen, but if you start from honesty and awareness about your intentions, you're far more likely to be successful.

Toque.

acroy

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2017, 05:12:50 PM »
We now have 9 (mutual decision). I have been staying home since just before our first was born almost 21 years ago. We homeschool.
Badass on you. A mere 7 here.
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BAM

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2017, 10:07:36 AM »
Yeah, only 7. Ha!
I do find that I will say things like "I only have 5 with me today". Or this weekend, when my oldest two are away at college and my DH is taking the next oldest 3 scouting for a hunting trip, I will "only" have 4. It does feel "only" to me after having 9 around but I get the strangest looks : ).

C-note

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2017, 10:44:18 AM »
We agreed on 2 and that was going well until we decided to conserve water by showering together.

We love all 3 but water conservation ended up costing us money in the long run.

CanuckExpat

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2017, 11:03:12 PM »
She thinks that, in general, the couple will end up doing whatever the woman wants. So if the husband wants 3 and the wife wants 4, then more often than not, she thinks that the couple will end up having the 4th kid. She's not arguing whether that's right or not; she just thinks that's what happens more often than not, because what mama wants mama gets.

What are you going to do otherwise, not have unprotected sex? Millions of years of evolution are going to make you have unprotected sex. Fucking evolution...

I, on the other hand, argued that Mustachian couples will have the fewer # of kids because it's unhealthy (relationship-wise) to impose an additional kid on someone who doesn't want it.

Related to the above, I'll paraphrase something I heard once from someone who studied evolutionary psychology: evolution didn't optimize you to be happy (or to have healthy relationships), evolution optimized you to survive on the Savannah long enough to breed. Fucking evolution...

(The two above are tounge in cheek, mainly)

P.S. Who / what are Anna Faris/Chris Pratt? I did go to the trouble of Googling, but from the first page all I could tell was that there is news about them being newsworthy.. I have no idea why or what
Was targetting Freedom35 but ended up retiring a couple years early. Currently Based in Buffalo for the summer.

okits

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2017, 11:22:32 PM »
P.S. Who / what are Anna Faris/Chris Pratt? I did go to the trouble of Googling, but from the first page all I could tell was that there is news about them being newsworthy.. I have no idea why or what

They're a couple of married actors who have split.  TMZ (!) reports that she wants more kids and to settle down, he wants to pursue his movie career now that he's made it big.  (I looked it up after OP mentioned them.)

meatface, I think this is your third thread in the past few weeks about ambivalence re: another child.  If this is an ongoing, unresolved issue between you and your wife, and it's coming up often enough that you're constantly seeking answers and clarity, have you considered counseling?  Or, if you are firmly committed to your position of having no more kids, a vasectomy?

frugledoc

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2017, 03:45:02 AM »
We have two kids.  We are extremely fortunate.

1st came after 2 years of trying. Obstetrician said 5 - 10% chance of conceiving due to severe endometeriosis. Then it just happened.

For our second, we thought it would happen (wife 39 by that point). Turns out that having one seems to have made wife super fertile and every time we had sex she got pregnant (first two were miscarriages then success).

If my wife said she wanted a 3rd I would happily oblige, but after everything she has been through ( 2 Caeserean's, one of them horrific, multiple infections, difficult breast feeding) I would never push for it.

What women have to go through to have kids just blows my mind, and I am an experienced physician. It is so all encompassing, life changing, and life threatening the thought of any man trying to push a woman into having more unwanted kids just maddens me.

Nice to see Mustachians have very large families, with most of the kids likely to grow up to be decent people.

In the UK, the general rule is that only the most feckless in society tend to have large familes.  Like  multigenerations of non work, completely benefit dependant and entitled families that are going to be a huge drain on the economy.

The reason for this is that left wing UK policies made it pay better to be unemployed and have kids than for either partner to work.

LiveLean

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2017, 06:09:37 PM »
I can think of at least five families off the top of my head who have a third kid much younger than the middle child because husband put off the vasectomy. (And a few others I suspect that's the case).

Vasectomy quickly ends the debate.
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meatface

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2017, 06:06:44 AM »
meatface, I think this is your third thread in the past few weeks about ambivalence re: another child.  If this is an ongoing, unresolved issue between you and your wife, and it's coming up often enough that you're constantly seeking answers and clarity, have you considered counseling?  Or, if you are firmly committed to your position of having no more kids, a vasectomy?

Just exploring this topic from different angles. It's interesting, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one in this position.
Neither I nor wife is committed to their position, just have different leanings that we'll work to resolve over the next year.

iowajes

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2017, 06:21:25 AM »

Vasectomy quickly ends the debate.

If the debate wasn't truly ended though it can also end the marriage.

Dragonswan

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2017, 03:52:05 PM »
Where does adoption fit into the debate?  Seems to me there are two issues: how many pregnancies and how many children. Adoption could help resolve differences if the female is fine with more children so long as she doesn't have to give birth.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2017, 04:43:21 PM »
Where does adoption fit into the debate?  Seems to me there are two issues: how many pregnancies and how many children. Adoption could help resolve differences if the female is fine with more children so long as she doesn't have to give birth.

If they could afford it. Adoption can be very expensive. It's also becoming harder as more countries close down their international adoption programs.

iowajes

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2017, 05:03:04 PM »
Where does adoption fit into the debate?  Seems to me there are two issues: how many pregnancies and how many children. Adoption could help resolve differences if the female is fine with more children so long as she doesn't have to give birth.

It could help resolve it.  But adoption is not for everyone. Not just in terms of money either.  There are many issues surrounding adoption that people have to settle for themselves.  It isn't so simple as "want a baby? Get a baby!"

okits

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2017, 09:18:54 PM »
I can think of at least five families off the top of my head who have a third kid much younger than the middle child because husband put off the vasectomy. (And a few others I suspect that's the case).

Did it prevent those families from having a fourth?  :)

meatface

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2017, 08:32:17 AM »
Where does adoption fit into the debate?  Seems to me there are two issues: how many pregnancies and how many children. Adoption could help resolve differences if the female is fine with more children so long as she doesn't have to give birth.

It could help resolve it.  But adoption is not for everyone. Not just in terms of money either.  There are many issues surrounding adoption that people have to settle for themselves.  It isn't so simple as "want a baby? Get a baby!"

Pregnancy isn't an issue. Neither is making babies; we are plenty fertile.

Nately

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2017, 08:57:27 AM »
The argument is a bit sexist.  The answer should be the same regardless of which spouse wants X and which wants X+1.

Unfortunately, biology is more than a bit sexist.

FWIW, OP, I'm a guy who agrees with your DW. Far more often than not, the woman is the one who decides here.

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2017, 11:55:30 AM »
The argument is a bit sexist.  The answer should be the same regardless of which spouse wants X and which wants X+1.
Actually, you assumed the spouse was a man. Mama means the partner that becomes pregnant, its  a title for the child bearing spouse. The spouse is the non-pregnant partner which could also apply to 2 women where one is infertile.

If its 2 women, is it still sexist, probably not. Does that enable you to answer the question?

meatface

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2017, 10:42:37 AM »
OP here. The original post was certainly not meant to be sexist, nor, upon further reflection, do I think it's sexist. The post simply presents a situation in which the woman/wife has one opinion and the man/husband has another opinion. While it is certainly the case that the roles are often switched, the post's goal isn't to present every scenario - just this one. That's not sexist, just focused. :D   As a husband to a strong woman, a father to two little girls, and a super egalitarian, self-proclaimed feminist, I consider myself about as un-sexist as a guy can get. If you're so easily triggered that you think the post is sexist, you might consider stepping away from the internet or at least spending your time debating actual sexist people.   ;)


simonsez

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2017, 02:39:49 PM »
If the kids are being carried to term in the mother's womb, then the mother has final say in our household.

Surrogate, adoption are more level playing field and open to debate.

This is coming from a naive 31 year old male married to a 31 year old female with zero children thus far.  In our talks about the number of pregnancies, my number has never been lower than my wife's. 

Hell this is probably because of the fact that it's not my body that would be carrying the burden.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2017, 12:27:45 PM »
That was a tough question so I just answered it based on what happened vs on who wanted what. I wanted 6 but we ended up at 4 because my DW felt she was getting older and we had been blessed with 4 healthy children why push it.

In addition , We weren't mustachian at the time but not sure that that would of mattered much as to decide to have kids or not inho should not be decided that way.

The difference in cost of having 2 or 4 kids could be based as easily on how you live your life style. More kids doesn't have to mean a whole lot more $. Yea some but if you want kids it should be worth it. I don't put a value amount on my kids and will just say if people question having kids then don't. I was an "accident" as they say and sure it cause a lot of stress for my parents. But that's was their problem.
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Pigeon

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2017, 10:51:35 AM »
The one who wants fewer kids wins, if the couple can't come to an agreement.  Kids are a gigantic financial, emotional, psychic, and just about every kind of drain.  They are a ton of work and they change your life significantly.  Don't get me wrong, I've got kids, I love them and am glad I have them.  But nobody gets to impose that on an unwilling partner.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 10:58:12 AM by Pigeon »

dios.del.sol

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2017, 11:29:11 AM »
I don't really like the premise of the question or the two options. Deciding to have kids and how many should be a mutual decision, not forced on either parent, regardless of gender. It should also be discussed before making financial and life commitments to each other. In the end, life is unpredictable too (you could get pregnant with twins after only wanting one, could be infertile and have to consider alternatives) and it's important to be flexible enough to deal with those unexpected situations too.
+1. This isn't a topic that can't be won by one and lost by the other. Marriage cannot be a zero sum game. Use this as an opportunity to grow together as a couple. Listen to each other. Learn about each other.

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MayDay

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2017, 11:36:22 AM »
I think if the child bearer wants fewer, they win, full stop.

I have definitely known a few stay at home moms who wanted more and they had more. Their reasoning (agreed upon by spouses- there were no "surprise" pregnancies or dishonesty) was that they did 90% of the childrearing so they should get a bigger vote.

We thought about a third but we're both pretty meh. People say things about never regretting having more but regretting not having more. But NO. I am very very glad I didn't go for a third, and if I got pg now I'd have an abortion.
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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2017, 11:48:01 AM »
OP here. The original post was certainly not meant to be sexist, nor, upon further reflection, do I think it's sexist. The post simply presents a situation in which the woman/wife has one opinion and the man/husband has another opinion. While it is certainly the case that the roles are often switched, the post's goal isn't to present every scenario - just this one. That's not sexist, just focused. :D   As a husband to a strong woman, a father to two little girls, and a super egalitarian, self-proclaimed feminist, I consider myself about as un-sexist as a guy can get. If you're so easily triggered that you think the post is sexist, you might consider stepping away from the internet or at least spending your time debating actual sexist people.   ;)

I love when male feminists tell women they're wrong about sexism and make fun of them for being "triggered."

Your post read sexist to me as well. There are certainly more sexist things in the world, but that doesn't post/mindset isn't problematic. And, having two daughters doesn't excuse you from doing self-reflection when multiple people tell you what you wrote is sexist.
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meatface

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2017, 07:18:49 AM »
I think if the child bearer wants fewer, they win, full stop.

I agree, but that was not the situation that was presented. :)

jezebel

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2017, 08:26:25 AM »
OP here. The original post was certainly not meant to be sexist, nor, upon further reflection, do I think it's sexist. The post simply presents a situation in which the woman/wife has one opinion and the man/husband has another opinion. While it is certainly the case that the roles are often switched, the post's goal isn't to present every scenario - just this one. That's not sexist, just focused. :D   As a husband to a strong woman, a father to two little girls, and a super egalitarian, self-proclaimed feminist, I consider myself about as un-sexist as a guy can get. If you're so easily triggered that you think the post is sexist, you might consider stepping away from the internet or at least spending your time debating actual sexist people.   ;)

I love when male feminists tell women they're wrong about sexism and make fun of them for being "triggered."

Your post read sexist to me as well. There are certainly more sexist things in the world, but that doesn't post/mindset isn't problematic. And, having two daughters doesn't excuse you from doing self-reflection when multiple people tell you what you wrote is sexist.

Agreed.  That was an awesome, heaping serving of mansplaining though!

Margie

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2017, 08:22:42 AM »
This made me laugh - when we discussed marriage we thought we would have four children and whoever made less would stay home.  We got married and threw ourselves into work...I took care of all the birth control as I knew a "surprise" baby would derail our plans and I am a planner by nature.

Fast forward six years and we had our son.  Awesome pregnancy, emergency C and trouble breast feeding (which subsided and then was great for first year)   Then while pregnant for the second time (totally planned) my husband said even if this is another boy I'm done, I'm exhausted and I don't want more than two.  I said "well if it's a boy, I will leave the birth control up to you and I'll have as many as I want"  He was startled - "what?  you wouldn't take the pill again you'd actually trick me?"  I laughed for hours - "it's not a trick if I tell you first...if you show up to play without taking care of it that's your responsibility!"
 
Anyhow, I prayed long and hard for a girl and when she was born I cried like a complete nut...First, glad she was healthy, glad she was a girl, glad she looked like me, and THRILLED because I knew I would never force my husband to have a third and also knew I would have been slightly disappointed if I had had another boy.   I love my son dearly but I always knew I wanted both girls and boys!

What makes this even more amusing to me is having 'the talk' with my son.  "Only two ways to 100% avoid becoming a father - do it yourself or keep your pants zipped"  Told him I would stock the bathroom with condoms and would keep it full although I expect him to wait for someone special and be responsible.  Told him he didn't need to worry about a girl's brother or father - if he did anything that wasn't appropriate I would probably kill him first.   He was mortified so I told him to talk to my husband and let me know how funny and uncomfortable Dad is!  lol 

Fun times!


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hoping2retire35

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Re: Who usually "wins" the number-of-kids-to-have debate?
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2017, 07:02:51 AM »
We thought about a third but we're both pretty meh. People say things about never regretting having more but regretting not having more. But NO. I am very very glad I didn't go for a third, and if I got pg now I'd have an abortion.
Would you go pill or do you think you would likely wait until you had to go to a clinic or some other method? I am assuming you have some means in mind.