The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Mini Money Mustaches => Topic started by: jac941 on December 15, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
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I never thought I’d get here, but we’re seriously considering private school ($$$) for our kids. We loved their public school when it was open, but now it’s not. And there’s no actionable plan to open school anytime soon. They have focused on distance learning which frankly should be called distance teaching because no learning is happening. Our 1st grader is miserable and hates school. Our 3rd grader is bored and has been extremely disruptive and referred to the school therapist for behavioral issues. My spouse and I work full time and are losing our minds. We have hired help to assist with school for 2 hrs / day, we send the kids to in person camp in the afternoons, but even with that things are just going south.
We have considered having one of us leave our job, but neither of us wants to be involved with the sh*t show that is dealing with the school this year. We also have no idea how to figure out a legitimate independent study alternative - and we’re starting in the hole here our kids HATE learning at home. We’re advertising for a “private teacher” position (vs the homework help we currently have) to see if we can just get some qualified help to being some enrichment and joy into school for our kids (at least this would allow us to do “independent study” and remain in public school on paper until they work things out). None of these options seems great.
What solutions have folks here come up with? I really don’t want to pay for private school, but I’m also really struggling watching my kids mental health decline and watching them struggle with and hate school. We’ve tried waiting things out and just getting by but the mental health toll on a few members of our family is getting to be a serious problem.
We’ve got a couple of weeks off for the holidays and are trying to figure out our next direction. Some outside the box thinking here would be very appreciated.
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Thankfully my kids are too young to be in school, but I've spent a lot of time listening to friends in your situation vent. Random idea that may or may not make sense to you -- just take them out of school and "homeschool" them. If they hate being forced to watch someone on a screen all day and aren't learning anything, what's the point? My sense from my friends is it's easier for the parent to just have them doing nothing (or be supervising some light learning activities) than it is to have to be actively forcing them to be at virtual school. And how long would it really take to teach them the amount they learn on an average day in 1st or 3rd grade?
Definitely not a perfect solution, but I get the sense it's better than what's currently happening for a lot of people.
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Posting more to commiserate than offer anything useful. My kids are a bit older and in hybrid (two days/wk in person), but it is getting very old. The in person days are ok, but then they are sent home with busy work to do on the off days, and it is taking longer and longer and longer each week for the kids to finish it. They are tired of it and end up talking with friends through the school chat function or just watching random videos half the day.
While we could afford private school for this year, it doesn't make sense at their level to do private for one year and then back to public. And I can't swing private long term, it is just too costly.
We are both WFH so we are planning some slow travel in the spring, renting homes through VRBO. I'm hoping the change of scenery will do us all some good. We'll basically still be isolating, just at someone else's house.
At your kids ages, I would look into full day camps. Around here several of the places that offer summer day camps for kids are now offering school supervision camps where the kids do their online school stuff and then play games with the other kids before/after. I have heard good things about it. Half day seems like it would be too easy for them to spend most of the time on schoolwork rather than play/interaction.
Honestly, if we were full remote all year here I would have found an alternative school. Either an actual accredited online school, or a private teacher/pod arrangement. The online schooling in spring here was awful, and the one day a week everyone is online now is just as useless. They might as well not even bother to do it.
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I'm here mostly to commiserate. I'm south of you, and schools aren't open. Some of the smaller, richer schools opened when we were in the red (because they have enough $$ to be safe and keep students and staff distanced).
So, our kids are in 9th and 3rd. At the beginning, HS was great, 3rd grader was a hot mess. Then it flipped. Then I couldn't wait till Jan when schools were going to open. Now I'm resigned...
It's exhausting keeping on top of work AND managing two kids and their homework. It is so so hard. My kids need to be at school. So, ideas from what friends have done:
1. Moved to a district that is open
2. Put their kids in private school ($$, but temporary)
3. Pulled them out to homeschool. I seriously considered this for the 3rd grader. Third grade and under is SO SO hard, and to be honest - if the school had offered an independent study option, we would have considered it. The fact of the matter is, he spends 8:30-12 and 1 to 1:30 in school almost every day, and he's expected to do another 1.5 to 2 hours of independent work and homework each day. To be honest? If we were just one on one, we could finish the work much more quickly. Maybe 2-3 hours per day, tops. As it is, I share an "office" with him, and many days I get zero work done before noon, and homeschooling/ independent study would be more efficient.
4. After school camps/ sports.
That said, my kids are learning plenty - but we take an active involvement. We've been helping the 3rd grader with multiplication and subtracting 3 digit numbers. We help him with writing. His reading level is just fine. I think this year is a wash for him, and it's fine. He'll be fine and his teacher is doing a pretty good job.
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My daughter is in 3rd grade and we opted to homeschool this year. I work from home, so we're using an online program called Time4Learning that teaches the basics and I supplement some from there. It's not perfect, but it's honestly going better than expected. She does most of her Time4Learning work independently (we do 4 days/wk, 2-3 hrs/day), I supplement with some things, and then she spends the rest of the day playing with her toys, reading, playing outside with the neighbor, and spending more time talking to her friends on kids messenger than is probably ideal... but it's all working for now.
Time4Learning is a lot more engaging than the school's remote learning with fewer tech hiccups, and it's only $20/mo. It's given us the flexibility of homeschooling, without the need for me to teach everything. I wouldn't say it's 100% perfect, but it's working well for us right now.
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I'm homeschooling my kindergartner, plus caring for my 3.5-year-old, while working. It's going pretty well. Disclaimer: my work allows me to spend 10/hours week paid time on childcare, so I'm only working 6 hours/day. It would be tough to get in 8 hours/day of work.
We spend roughly 3 hours/day homeschooling. So I work 6:30-9, homeschool 9-12, make and eat lunch and put the kids down for quiet time from 12-1, and work 1-4:30.
I'm 90% my kid has ADHD, and it requires my full focus to keep her on task with homeschool, which is tiring, but I'm pretty sure distance learning would not work for her at all.
ETA: I'm homeschooling through our district's program, which I mostly like, and which is definitely a mustachian option, as they give us a stipend to buy curriculum and spend on other educational materials/activities.
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We're lucky enough to live in BC, where in person public school has been prioritized by the powers that be and so far it's been working well. We had a limited stint with distance learning in April and May and I agree with you that it was a total waste of everyone's time. No significant learning happened and everyone's mental health took a big hit. My kids have been back in school since September and even though there are lots of changes from the Before Times, it's a million times better than the distance fiasco.
In your shoes, I'd see if you can get them into private school with solid health protocols ASAP. This is the kind of thing FU money is for. Your kids need to learn to read and write and interact with humans other than their parents. Take the financial hit for 2021 and reassess once a significant number of people have been vaccinated.
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I'm thankful that my 3rd grader is going OK with online learning. Yes, there appears to be a lot of what I would consider "wasted" time but that is a small gripe.
But over the summer, when it became more and more evident that public school was not going to be opening in-person in any meaningful way, my spouse and I explored our options. Basically, what you came up with were the only options we could come up with. We were leery about enrolling in an expensive private school that would then turn around and close too (and doing that would withdraw us from our public school that we had to lottery in to, meaning we'd have to lottery AGAIN to get him back in).
One thing that might be worth considering is seeing if your public school as an option for non-traditional learning. I had had some brief discussions with the principal about this and my school district does offer fully asynchronous learning for eligible kids. It also seemed that the principal would work with families and kids who had real difficulty with the all-day online learning model... like as long as the work was done and there was a "check in" here and there, that would probably be OK.
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In your shoes, I'd see if you can get them into private school with solid health protocols ASAP. This is the kind of thing FU money is for. Your kids need to learn to read and write and interact with humans other than their parents. Take the financial hit for 2021 and reassess once a significant number of people have been vaccinated.
I know it's not really what you want to hear, but I have to second this. If we were in your shoes, I think this is what we'd probably do.
Our district (PA) has really stayed on top of keeping everyone safe - we were lucky enough to live in a district that committed to opening starting in Sept. and in my son's school there have been about 20 cases total, over half were cases that never stepped foot in the school but were reported for transparency.
In the first few weeks of lockdown, especially after Preschool closed, our son really struggled - he really needs the social interaction that school brings, and being stuck in the house not being able to even play outside (bad weather) caused him to develop some uncharacteristic anxieties. After a week in school, it was like a light flipped back on - if we had to do a year of virtual school, we would 1000% have sent our son to a private school that's open.
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Thanks for the commiseration and ideas. At least I’m not alone in thinking this problem has no good solution, just a handful of mediocre ones.
At your kids ages, I would look into full day camps.
This is a good idea - there are very few in our area and they are very expensive, but it could help. It would at least solve the adult side problem in our house. I’m not sure that it will improve the kid problems though. Maybe the distraction of other kids around when doing the remote work will keep them motivated and stop the anxious disruptive behavior?
In your shoes, I'd see if you can get them into private school with solid health protocols ASAP. This is the kind of thing FU money is for. Your kids need to learn to read and write and interact with humans other than their parents. Take the financial hit for 2021 and reassess once a significant number of people have been vaccinated.
I know it's not really what you want to hear, but I have to second this. If we were in your shoes, I think this is what we'd probably do.
This is where we are leaning — but the cost gives me pause. If we move them, we would leave them through the 2021-2022 school year. I’ve spoken to our friend who is a school psychologist and she basically said next year is going to be rough with the mix of kids coming back with serious problems and learning loss. And to be clear, our district doesn’t even have a plan for a fall 2021. Not to get off on too much of a tangent, but our district’s handling of this has been a disaster. They keep putting return dates out there and then don’t meet them. And to be clear, we had an extremely low COVID case rate and positivity rate in the fall — we were in the orange for folks familiar with the CA tiers.
We were leery about enrolling in an expensive private school that would then turn around and close too (and doing that would withdraw us from our public school that we had to lottery in to, meaning we'd have to lottery AGAIN to get him back in).
We were leery about the private schools staying closed in August. The advantage to doing this now is that we are able to see what schools are committed to being open and only look at those. A huge part of my hesitation is that we have to lottery back into the public school. Our 1st grader has no attachment to her school, but the 3rd grader is definitely bummed that he might never go back.
As far as homeschooling goes, I just don’t think I’m going to be able to improve things - it would be different if we were starting from neutral vs a place of disdain for school at home. Unschooling would help and is certainly something to consider. Call it a lost year and let the kids go feral like they did in the summer.
Parenting decisions are hard!
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Posting an update here. We decided to put the younger one in private school that is full time in person because she was really suffering, and we’re keeping the older one in public school where he’s not learning but at least not melting down. We don’t expect the public school to open for in person this school year.
I can say for sure that if things continue as they are that the money has been worth it for the little one. She is like a different child. Happy, engaged, hopeful vs the anxious mess before. It’s a night and day difference.
For the older one we let him pick a couple of Outschool classes that he’s super excited about and enjoying. That addition along with a half day of in person camp seems to be enough for him for now.
Thanks again for all the thoughts and ideas. It was super helpful in thinking about what to do.
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That sounds like a great solution. I'm so glad it's working out.
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We've been homeschooling for a few years now and really like it. We are able to cater curriculum to our kids' interests and learning style, and build the schedule around what works best for us as a family. We have to move every 2-3 years for my job, and this provides a lot of continuity for the kids, not to mention that COVID presented almost zero disruption to our daily life (except for museums getting shut down).
A few hours a day of focused instruction spread out across the day. Apart from this, they do a TON of reading - both on their own and reading aloud by my wife and me. Nature studies, field trips, and a co-op that we belong to help round it out.
Homeschooling is the most expensive form of private school we could do, because my wife doesn't work outside the home, and we forego her salary in order to do this. For us, it's been beyond worth it, and are hopeful to be able to always do it.
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Our schools opened in August and have stayed open, because we had solid leadership and a community that wouldn't put up with keeping bars and restaurants open and not having kids in school. That would have been utter insanity. It's gone great, I believe there has yet to be a case traced back to contact at the school itself.
That said, when we were shut down/distance learning last spring during the total meltdown time, we basically just ended up letting the kids do what they wanted - lots of "PE" (skiing, hikes, mountain biking, rock climbing) and reading and a bit of math tossed in to make sure they didn't completely forget math. Ostensibly they were supposed to be sitting in front of the computer for their remote learning all day but all the teachers were fine with them (this is elementary school) just saying hello in the morning and then logging out.
For a 1st and 3rd grader, there's probably no harm in basically abandoning academics for a bit - but you'll need a SAHP or "tutor" and a nod/wink relationship with the teachers to make it happen.
Good luck! School boards that chose not to open screwed up royally.
-W
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I'm glad you were able to get your kids in private school. Here, they all filled up over the summer when it became apparent that our governor wasn't going to allow public schools to open. People who started looking in the fall or later are all on wait lists, and their kids are suffering for it.
Good luck! School boards that chose not to open screwed up royally.
-W
You can say that again.
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Posting an update here. We decided to put the younger one in private school that is full time in person because she was really suffering, and we’re keeping the older one in public school where he’s not learning but at least not melting down. We don’t expect the public school to open for in person this school year.
I can say for sure that if things continue as they are that the money has been worth it for the little one. She is like a different child. Happy, engaged, hopeful vs the anxious mess before. It’s a night and day difference.
For the older one we let him pick a couple of Outschool classes that he’s super excited about and enjoying. That addition along with a half day of in person camp seems to be enough for him for now.
Thanks again for all the thoughts and ideas. It was super helpful in thinking about what to do.
I'm really glad that it's working out for you! That's great news. I'm pretty sure that we aren't going to open up this year at all. We survived one semester anyway, for the one kid's first year of high school.
Good luck! School boards that chose not to open screwed up royally.
Yeah, they were naive. At least here, they were. We were in the red, and were close to orange. They took a poll between opening in early November and January, and picked January. D'oh! Hello holiday spike.
Honestly, the difficulty in opening here ... well, it's a lot of things:
1. Our school district is large. The smaller schools here (and wealthier) already opened. However, their parent teacher ratios and amount of money available are quite a bit larger than ours (2-3x). That meant they could hire more staff to allow for smaller classrooms, incorporate outdoor classes (more space in general), etc. They could also install remote learning video equipment in the classrooms for the 15% of families who wanted to stay remote. (Or simply hire a remote teacher.)
- Unfortunately, for our schools, it's more difficult. We (not me) have a desire to keep bars and restaurants open (a lot of tourism here). We have a lot of at risk teachers. We have some classes that have 30-35 students at the elementary level - could do hybrid with that, but it's hard. We don't have the money or the infrastructure to make everyone happy - 20% of the families want to stay virtual, but there's not the capacity to add 20% more teachers. For example, a second grade teacher cannot teach in person AND virtually.
And that's just elementary school.
2. We have a lot of multi-generational families. The same students who are at risk of learning loss and other issues by NOT being at school are the students whose families are at risk because of multi-generations, or multiple families living in one household. Nobody wants to be the one who kills grandma. That's a big concern that some families and teachers have brought forth.
3. High school is impossible to really have pods or cohorts, and the classrooms are far too small to get 6' distance. We have 500 students per grade.
4. Don't even get me started if you've got 3 kids in 3 different schools...
5. People are selfish and have been gathering. So our numbers are through the roof. Our case rate was 4.8 in early November, it is 113 now - a 23 fold increase.
At this point, I can only hope that people stop gathering, the vaccine gets distributed quickly, and our numbers drop down to 25 case rate so that we can maybe open by the end of March?
We already don't have enough
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In our community, keeping kids in school has actually (anecdotally) seemed to slow the spread. Bored kids outside of school tend to get together and tend to forget about masks and such. The cases that have been caught in kids (mostly high school) are all transmission at social events/sports/family gatherings.
So the teachers AND kids are probably safer in school, really. But it's hard to wrap your brain around that, I suppose.
In any case, it's worked out great here with nothing more than keeping kids in their own classroom for lunch/away from other classes, and masks. Our class sizes tend to be around 25, for what it's worth, but the facilities are pretty old so it's not like there's a ton of room in the classrooms.
-W
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We were doing private school anyways, but we didn't feel safe sending our daughter in person, so she's going virtually. It's just kindergarten, and it's actually going really well, so we're happy with it mostly, except that I need to keep on top of her schedule. Once she's vaccinated we'll switch to in person and I'm really looking forward to that. I hope the increased interaction will help her then. But it wasn't worth the risk to us.
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Erm, you're aware that the vaccine is not approved for kids, and is unlikely to be anytime soon, right?
I certainly wouldn't make plans based on that idea.
-W
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In our community, keeping kids in school has actually (anecdotally) seemed to slow the spread. Bored kids outside of school tend to get together and tend to forget about masks and such. The cases that have been caught in kids (mostly high school) are all transmission at social events/sports/family gatherings.
So the teachers AND kids are probably safer in school, really. But it's hard to wrap your brain around that, I suppose.
In any case, it's worked out great here with nothing more than keeping kids in their own classroom for lunch/away from other classes, and masks. Our class sizes tend to be around 25, for what it's worth, but the facilities are pretty old so it's not like there's a ton of room in the classrooms.
-W
That is good anecdotal info. Our district started the year with everything open (but hybrid) and we're down to only the elementary schools going hybrid now and everyone else is remote. At our high point in November the district had over 500 students and teachers quarantined and there weren't enough teachers/subs to staff the high and middle schools so they were shut down from lack of adults. The whole district went remote the week before Thanksgiving and stayed remote until the elementary schools opened back up last week.
But our town hasn't shut down anything. Restaurants are at capacity, indoor sports leagues are going full throttle, gyms seem open and busy etc. I just checked our state covid dashboard and our county seems to be at 826 cases per 100k (our state does a 14 day average on this), and 20% positivity rate.
We had signed up for virtual school but switched to in-person the day before it started because the virtual requirements for parents were too onerous for us to handle (and also remain employed).
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Our schools opened in August and have stayed open, because we had solid leadership and a community that wouldn't put up with keeping bars and restaurants open and not having kids in school. That would have been utter insanity.
Hear! Hear! The opening of bars is particularly galling. Not that I have anything in particular against bars, but they aren't essential (whereas education is) and drunk people are loud and quickly forget/ignore social distancing protocols. At least restaurants can do outdoor dining and or space out tables where people mostly remain seated.
When the dust settles on this pandemic and history is written I think it will show that broad long-term shutdowns are ill advised. For a short period of time it may make sense, a la the initial "flatten the curve" plan. But as we're seeing in California, this isn't sustainable over 10+ months and has many serious unintended consequences.
Narrower restrictions would also mean less unemployment while making it feasible to provide substantial financial support to industries/employees impacted by shutdowns.
Because FIRE and schedule flexibility we were already planning on homeschooling our kids this year. Overall it has been a positive experience for us, though very much a privilege. I'm completely sympathetic to families trying to manage "distance learning" while caregivers work. Even more so poorer families navigating job losses, broken unemployment systems, and school shutdowns. For the sake of kids and families, I really hope schools go back to some form of in-person instruction this fall.
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In our community, keeping kids in school has actually (anecdotally) seemed to slow the spread. Bored kids outside of school tend to get together and tend to forget about masks and such. The cases that have been caught in kids (mostly high school) are all transmission at social events/sports/family gatherings.
So the teachers AND kids are probably safer in school, really. But it's hard to wrap your brain around that, I suppose.
In any case, it's worked out great here with nothing more than keeping kids in their own classroom for lunch/away from other classes, and masks. Our class sizes tend to be around 25, for what it's worth, but the facilities are pretty old so it's not like there's a ton of room in the classrooms.
-W
The experience in my community has been very similar. In my district, students had the option to go fully remote, or fully in person for elementary, and hybrid for middle and high school. About 15-20% chose the remote option. Because of the size of the district, they were able to have separate teachers for the remote kids, and smaller class sizes for the in person cohort. There has been no indication of spread within the schools.
My kids are elementary, so I am more familiar with the setup there. Masks all day with breaks. No pe or other specials, so they have a shortened school day. Lunch in the classroom, and recess is spread out so that much fewer kids are on the playground at any one time. The largest class size is my 5th graders, which went from 20 to 21 as about 5% remote students decided to return to in person. My 2nd grader probably has one of the smallest classes, going from 14 to 16 students after the break. With these smaller class sizes (5 to 10 less students than normal), I actually feel like my kids are getting a better education than normal. Neither of my kids have had to quarantine from any possible contact. They did have 2 weeks of remote school after Thanksgiving and 1 week remote after Christmas break as a precautionary measure.
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For a 1st and 3rd grader, there's probably no harm in basically abandoning academics for a bit - but you'll need a SAHP or "tutor" and a nod/wink relationship with the teachers to make it happen.
Good luck! School boards that chose not to open screwed up royally.
We tried the tutor, but there's no nod/wink relationship with the teachers. The whole thing is a shit show. I'm furious that the school board isn't getting things opened up at this point. The local children's hospital has seen the number of kids coming in with suicidal ideation triple in the past year. It's just horrifying. In nearby San Francisco, the City is suing the School District for not opening. And in our city, parents are considering the same approach.
Our younger child that we moved to private school is doing GREAT. It has been excellent for her mental health, she's actually learning, she's regaining her confidence. She's ahead in reading and behind in writing and math and the school has a plan to help her get back on track without stressing her out or destroying her confidence. We have to decide this week if we're enrolling her next school year and almost certainly will.
Our 3rd grader is still plugging along at public "distance learning" school not learning anything but not having a mental breakdown either. We're coming up on a year of minimal education at this point and the numbers for learning loss came out and they're astoundingly bad. Far far worse than just the summer slide. I'm not sure where our son specifically stands, but just observing what he's doing, I think his writing has suffered the most. Some stuff I look at and think that maybe he has dysgraphia.
So now we're back to considering private school for him too. Our district can't even get it together to open, and they're not even committing to opening in the Fall. For a hot second there was a "after the kids are vaccinated" demand which I think got shut down pretty quickly. I can't even imagine what kind of disaster the next 18+ months of trying to get kids back on track is going to look like. It can't possibly be good.
We may move to a district that is open. Or the way things are going at my job, I may get fired or laid off and then can actually focus on our son and try to do some sort of legitimate homeschooling. Though honestly, I'd prefer to work. I'm a terrible teacher... which my kids will attest to.
I'm just so angry and frustrated about the whole thing. About the money, the inequity, the hit to my job / career. I realize that we're in the middle of a pandemic, but most of these types of problems are a failure of leadership during the pandemic, not due to the disease itself. It's so incredibly frustrating.
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I have a kindergartener. We did the virtual for a while. I work from home and my husband watches the kids while I do. I recently pulled and homeschool as we are able to get more learning done in the hours she had designated for virtual because we no longer wait fifteen mins in between each worksheet for the teacher to help the in person kiddos.
I am in the rare camp that believes schools shouldn't be opened now, or should have limited in person students.
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It's actually been great that some parents (for whatever reasons) with free time/resources prefer to keep their kids out of school here - as it has allowed less crowding/lower student/teacher ratios for those folks who *need* to send theirs. We've screwed over poor kids enough without sending them home alone and unsupervised with a laptop for an entire year.
Most of the folks who kept kids home sent them back after the first trimester (after the various predictions of disaster failed to pan out), so we're down to maybe 5% remote kids now, and almost all of those are at the high school.
-W
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We have combined with 2 other families with kids in our school and hired a college kid who is an education major to help encourage the work during the day. My wife is working from home, so we set up a small classroom in a spare bedroom for them to work in. The private school we send our son to, isn't open, and can't, because of a the city health department. The teachers union in the city lobbied seriously hard for this, as they knew if private schools could open, then the public schools would see a mass exodus...while other suburbs have schools open and are not reporting increased community spread.
One thing I find interesting in our community...is that they proclaim all the time about the percentage of kids who get free lunch, how school is the safest place for alot of these kids, etc. etc., and that's why they constantly fight for tax increases, and are always fundraising...but apparently NOW, it's safer for them to be unsupervised at home, and hungry...because if you can't afford lunch at school, you certainly can't afford food at home.
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Our younger child that we moved to private school is doing GREAT. It has been excellent for her mental health, she's actually learning, she's regaining her confidence. She's ahead in reading and behind in writing and math and the school has a plan to help her get back on track without stressing her out or destroying her confidence. We have to decide this week if we're enrolling her next school year and almost certainly will.
Our 3rd grader is still plugging along at public "distance learning" school not learning anything but not having a mental breakdown either. We're coming up on a year of minimal education at this point and the numbers for learning loss came out and they're astoundingly bad. Far far worse than just the summer slide. I'm not sure where our son specifically stands, but just observing what he's doing, I think his writing has suffered the most. Some stuff I look at and think that maybe he has dysgraphia.
So now we're back to considering private school for him too. Our district can't even get it together to open, and they're not even committing to opening in the Fall. For a hot second there was a "after the kids are vaccinated" demand which I think got shut down pretty quickly. I can't even imagine what kind of disaster the next 18+ months of trying to get kids back on track is going to look like. It can't possibly be good.
I feel you here. I'm in So Cal, and it's fascinating. Our district is fully remote. The things I've seen on social media:
- Parents complaining that schools aren't open, when they are letting their kids throw parties (unmasked), go to the beach with friends, go on vacation with others.
- Some of these parents then putting their kids in private schools
- Teachers who have been ready to go back...forever
- Teachers who are already back on campus (without students) who are fearful every day of COVID.
- Teachers who insist that their students are GREAT and remote is fine. (Including one who sends her kid to private school...that is open.)
- Parents who complain that teachers are phoning it in, and remote school is a joke.
- Parents who say that remote school is awesome.
- Teachers who insist they cannot POSSIBLY go back until they are all vaccinated (which was literally never in the plan)
- Teachers who insist parents just want to send their kids to school to socialize, and be masked 6' apart from others (um, how about actual school?)
- Teachers and parents who truly worry that the kids with learning loss are also the families at more risk from COVID
A number of our public elementary schools in smaller districts have been open in hybrid for months now, and zero cases of spread at school. Yet, our teacher's union resists.
For some of us, it's working fine, not great.
For others: a disaster.
You literally aren't going to make everyone happy.
I have no control over, so I've gone all zen.
My third grader is fine. No learning loss, but he has his parents to work with him daily while we WFH. He started the school year 2 grades ahead in math and ELA, and probably still is. He hates writing, always has, still does. But he's read all of the Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, and Hunger Games books.
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Good NYT article on schools that stayed open in RI:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/magazine/school-reopenings-rhode-island.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210210&instance_id=27000&nl=the-morning®i_id=57504982&segment_id=51427&te=1&user_id=bfa991c17ff431e94b4ce6a6f177ff35
It's depressing that almost exclusively red states made the right call on this.
-W
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https://www.edweek.org/leadership/opinion-students-respond-to-adults-fixation-on-learning-loss/2021/02?fbclid=IwAR1zsk6Ad5dUuD8cIeEAjDf6vhISsKmLJdrn_F-9O_t4LJygkj4zUx64I6Q
Just some food for thought. Teacher here. We are doing everything humanly possible to meet every kids needs at our school right now. We focus on so much more than just academics. Please know we love and care about your kids.
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We have combined with 2 other families with kids in our school and hired a college kid who is an education major to help encourage the work during the day. My wife is working from home, so we set up a small classroom in a spare bedroom for them to work in. The private school we send our son to, isn't open, and can't, because of a the city health department. The teachers union in the city lobbied seriously hard for this, as they knew if private schools could open, then the public schools would see a mass exodus...while other suburbs have schools open and are not reporting increased community spread.
One thing I find interesting in our community...is that they proclaim all the time about the percentage of kids who get free lunch, how school is the safest place for alot of these kids, etc. etc., and that's why they constantly fight for tax increases, and are always fundraising...but apparently NOW, it's safer for them to be unsupervised at home, and hungry...because if you can't afford lunch at school, you certainly can't afford food at home.
I'm all for schools opening and wish they would have in the Fall.
But just a side note most kids on free/reduced lunch are still getting food delivers/pick up from what I hear. I know they are in my state at least (MD)
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Our younger child that we moved to private school is doing GREAT. It has been excellent for her mental health, she's actually learning, she's regaining her confidence. She's ahead in reading and behind in writing and math and the school has a plan to help her get back on track without stressing her out or destroying her confidence. We have to decide this week if we're enrolling her next school year and almost certainly will.
Our 3rd grader is still plugging along at public "distance learning" school not learning anything but not having a mental breakdown either. We're coming up on a year of minimal education at this point and the numbers for learning loss came out and they're astoundingly bad. Far far worse than just the summer slide. I'm not sure where our son specifically stands, but just observing what he's doing, I think his writing has suffered the most. Some stuff I look at and think that maybe he has dysgraphia.
So now we're back to considering private school for him too. Our district can't even get it together to open, and they're not even committing to opening in the Fall. For a hot second there was a "after the kids are vaccinated" demand which I think got shut down pretty quickly. I can't even imagine what kind of disaster the next 18+ months of trying to get kids back on track is going to look like. It can't possibly be good.
I feel you here. I'm in So Cal, and it's fascinating. Our district is fully remote. The things I've seen on social media:
- Parents complaining that schools aren't open, when they are letting their kids throw parties (unmasked), go to the beach with friends, go on vacation with others.
- Some of these parents then putting their kids in private schools
- Teachers who have been ready to go back...forever
- Teachers who are already back on campus (without students) who are fearful every day of COVID.
- Teachers who insist that their students are GREAT and remote is fine. (Including one who sends her kid to private school...that is open.)
- Parents who complain that teachers are phoning it in, and remote school is a joke.
- Parents who say that remote school is awesome.
- Teachers who insist they cannot POSSIBLY go back until they are all vaccinated (which was literally never in the plan)
- Teachers who insist parents just want to send their kids to school to socialize, and be masked 6' apart from others (um, how about actual school?)
- Teachers and parents who truly worry that the kids with learning loss are also the families at more risk from COVID
A number of our public elementary schools in smaller districts have been open in hybrid for months now, and zero cases of spread at school. Yet, our teacher's union resists.
For some of us, it's working fine, not great.
For others: a disaster.
You literally aren't going to make everyone happy.
I have no control over, so I've gone all zen.
My third grader is fine. No learning loss, but he has his parents to work with him daily while we WFH. He started the school year 2 grades ahead in math and ELA, and probably still is. He hates writing, always has, still does. But he's read all of the Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, and Hunger Games books.
The unions have really pissed me off to know end. We live in a pretty large district and our staff was roughly 50/50 on going back (similar to students/parents) during the summer surveys that were filled out.
But to hear the union tell it NO TEACHERS are willing to go back and that is just so patently false and creating a lot of ill will between the community and the staff.
It's really infuriating and like you I've mostly just tried to just Zen out. My kids and wife (teacher) are doing ok, but not great. But it's really out of my circle of control and there are plenty of other folks working on it so I let it be.
Thankfully it looks like they are finally going to try to open in part March 15th. We'll see how it goes.
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The unions have really pissed me off to know end. We live in a pretty large district and our staff was roughly 50/50 on going back (similar to students/parents) during the summer surveys that were filled out.
But to hear the union tell it NO TEACHERS are willing to go back and that is just so patently false and creating a lot of ill will between the community and the staff.
It's really infuriating and like you I've mostly just tried to just Zen out. My kids and wife (teacher) are doing ok, but not great. But it's really out of my circle of control and there are plenty of other folks working on it so I let it be.
Thankfully it looks like they are finally going to try to open in part March 15th. We'll see how it goes.
Even today, in my feed, it's 50/50.
- There are teachers who are thrilled to be going back.
- There are parents who are thrilled to be going back.
- There are teachers insisting it's NOT SAFE and can someone donate surgical masks?
- There are parents who have crafted a particular pod of safety and don't want to mess with that.
- There are parents who don't think hybrid or virtual choices are "fair" or "equitable". (Because they don't want to have to go back...but this is a guy whose wife is a teacher and whose younger kid is already on campus learning virtually).
I am frustrated, but I can't make anyone else happy.
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UGGGGGGH
Now we get an email today from DD2's teacher that she is remaining 100% virtual.
So now we have to choose sending our daughter to school but changing teachers or staying Virtual to keep her teacher since September.
What bullshit. I am so F*^KING mad right now after having tried to remain pretty calm about this whole school thing I stupidly got my hopes up when the County made the announcement only to be slapped in the face and now have to discuss this with my daughter with one of us being disappointed no matter what.
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UGGGGGGH
Now we get an email today from DD2's teacher that she is remaining 100% virtual.
So now we have to choose sending our daughter to school but changing teachers or staying Virtual to keep her teacher since September.
What bullshit. I am so F*^KING mad right now after having tried to remain pretty calm about this whole school thing I stupidly got my hopes up when the County made the announcement only to be slapped in the face and now have to discuss this with my daughter with one of us being disappointed no matter what.
Yep, that's what my friends are worried about too. They don't want to change teachers. Nobody wants to change teachers but there's no way for us to know which teachers are remaining virtual. My 3rd grader's teacher is 55-ish, so I think she'll be returning, but who really knows...
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UGGGGGGH
Now we get an email today from DD2's teacher that she is remaining 100% virtual.
So now we have to choose sending our daughter to school but changing teachers or staying Virtual to keep her teacher since September.
What bullshit. I am so F*^KING mad right now after having tried to remain pretty calm about this whole school thing I stupidly got my hopes up when the County made the announcement only to be slapped in the face and now have to discuss this with my daughter with one of us being disappointed no matter what.
Yep, that's what my friends are worried about too. They don't want to change teachers. Nobody wants to change teachers but there's no way for us to know which teachers are remaining virtual. My 3rd grader's teacher is 55-ish, so I think she'll be returning, but who really knows...
When we moved our anxiety filled doing very very poorly child to private school last month she not only had to change teachers but she was starting at a school where she did not know a single child. She was so incredibly relieved to be in person and not struggling on Zoom that it was a non issue. Within a week we saw a dramatic improvement in the anxiety and a month in she is like a completely different person - happy and hopeful. So here’s one vote from me that it is absolutely worth changing teachers to get in person learning. Especially if your child is really struggling like ours was.
Our 3rd grader isn’t struggling as much with the distance learning, but even for him I think it would be worth changing teachers to get him into some in person school. He spends around 6 hours per day on his iPad which is really overkill for an 8 yr old.
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But just a side note most kids on free/reduced lunch are still getting food delivers/pick up from what I hear. I know they are in my state at least (MD)
In our district the data just came out and only 25% of families who qualify for free lunch have been getting meals this school year.
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https://www.edweek.org/leadership/opinion-students-respond-to-adults-fixation-on-learning-loss/2021/02?fbclid=IwAR1zsk6Ad5dUuD8cIeEAjDf6vhISsKmLJdrn_F-9O_t4LJygkj4zUx64I6Q
Just some food for thought. Teacher here. We are doing everything humanly possible to meet every kids needs at our school right now. We focus on so much more than just academics. Please know we love and care about your kids.
If I implied that I thought the teachers didn’t care, I really apologize for that. My daughter’s teacher really cared. She checked in with my daughter, called her when she was having meltdowns about feeling so incapable about school, suggested resources that might help her, and really tried to make it work for her. She went way above and beyond trying to help our child through distance learning. The teacher told us that our DD is a “social learner” more so than other kids and she thought that this was why she was struggling so much with trying to learn in isolation. I don’t think her new teachers are any better, but that in person learning is just dramatically better for her. And based on the early data coming out, I suspect this is true for a large percentage of kids.
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UGGGGGGH
Now we get an email today from DD2's teacher that she is remaining 100% virtual.
So now we have to choose sending our daughter to school but changing teachers or staying Virtual to keep her teacher since September.
What bullshit. I am so F*^KING mad right now after having tried to remain pretty calm about this whole school thing I stupidly got my hopes up when the County made the announcement only to be slapped in the face and now have to discuss this with my daughter with one of us being disappointed no matter what.
Yep, that's what my friends are worried about too. They don't want to change teachers. Nobody wants to change teachers but there's no way for us to know which teachers are remaining virtual. My 3rd grader's teacher is 55-ish, so I think she'll be returning, but who really knows...
When we moved our anxiety filled doing very very poorly child to private school last month she not only had to change teachers but she was starting at a school where she did not know a single child. She was so incredibly relieved to be in person and not struggling on Zoom that it was a non issue. Within a week we saw a dramatic improvement in the anxiety and a month in she is like a completely different person - happy and hopeful. So here’s one vote from me that it is absolutely worth changing teachers to get in person learning. Especially if your child is really struggling like ours was.
Our 3rd grader isn’t struggling as much with the distance learning, but even for him I think it would be worth changing teachers to get him into some in person school. He spends around 6 hours per day on his iPad which is really overkill for an 8 yr old.
Glad it's going so well with her with the transition and in person learning :)
We probably will end up just having her switch teachers; but she's doing well and loves her teacher so it's going to be hard to break it to her.
But my wife is a teacher too and she is going back to in person learning. AND my 67 year old retired teacher mother with no vaccine insists on going back to substituting (~$125 a day no benefits, so not much sympathy for the "real" teachers who refuse to go back).
So if my wife and my mom both go back to work my daughters pretty much have to go back to school.
I'm sure it'll be fine and she'll get over it in a few weeks and hopefully really like it better. Just frustrating :(
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So here’s one vote from me that it is absolutely worth changing teachers to get in person learning. Especially if your child is really struggling like ours was.
For my friends, it's the opposite. I think they'd rather stay virtual to the end of the school year, but they are pretty sure they'd get a new teacher if they did that.
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Huh I am surprised people worry that much about switching teachers. For us the positives of in person school are well worth it! I think a new teacher will get to know my child about 20 times faster in person than virtual.
Our stupid district has every single teacher (who accepted the vax) fully vaccinated now. Yet still not back... I am angry for sure.
My 5th grader should be going back Feb 22 for 2 days a week, every other week. Ugh.
My 7th grader should be going back Mar 1 for 2 days a week, every week.
Both days are 5 hours so not a full day, as they are cancelling specials I think. Which is fine but also it's like great... 10 hours of in person school a week. Plus we have to get them to/fro in the middle of the work day to avoid the bus (which we are doing since we have the privilege to do so). In another month they will walk/bike but it's too cold and icy right now.
We looked into the local catholic school but DD refused on account of the mandatory God classes. I thought it would be worth holding your nose during God class to have in person school, haha.
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Huh I am surprised people worry that much about switching teachers. For us the positives of in person school are well worth it! I think a new teacher will get to know my child about 20 times faster in person than virtual.
Our stupid district has every single teacher (who accepted the vax) fully vaccinated now. Yet still not back... I am angry for sure.
My 5th grader should be going back Feb 22 for 2 days a week, every other week. Ugh.
My 7th grader should be going back Mar 1 for 2 days a week, every week.
Both days are 5 hours so not a full day, as they are cancelling specials I think. Which is fine but also it's like great... 10 hours of in person school a week. Plus we have to get them to/fro in the middle of the work day to avoid the bus (which we are doing since we have the privilege to do so). In another month they will walk/bike but it's too cold and icy right now.
We looked into the local catholic school but DD refused on account of the mandatory God classes. I thought it would be worth holding your nose during God class to have in person school, haha.
At least your district has a plan with a date. Our district was floating 2 days a week 2 hrs a day in the afternoon with no bus transportation. Elementary only. No commitment to a start date. WTF?!? Who can do that, and why bother for 4 hrs of school a week?
There is no plan at all for middle or high school. A LOT of people are leaving for private school. Basically anyone who can possibly swing the cost has applied.
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It will be ironic if the teachers unions and school boards inadvertently kill off public school. If enough middle class/wealthy parents pull their kids, you'll get a real downward spiral in a lot of places.
I am baffled by the behavior of educators and administrators. We've had zero problems in what now amounts to about 2/3 of our school year, with all kids in school all day, every day. I hear about these places where teachers won't go back even after being vaccinated and just shake my head. Honestly, that's just despicable. Being freaked last spring was fully justified. I was too. By fall it was pretty clear school was going to be fine. And now? FFS, you're vaccinated! Teach the f'ing kids!
-W
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It will be ironic if the teachers unions and school boards inadvertently kill off public school. If enough middle class/wealthy parents pull their kids, you'll get a real downward spiral in a lot of places.
I am baffled by the behavior of educators and administrators. We've had zero problems in what now amounts to about 2/3 of our school year, with all kids in school all day, every day. I hear about these places where teachers won't go back even after being vaccinated and just shake my head. Honestly, that's just despicable. Being freaked last spring was fully justified. I was too. By fall it was pretty clear school was going to be fine. And now? FFS, you're vaccinated! Teach the f'ing kids!
-W
Yeah thats honestly one of my big fears. As much as I want my kids to go back to school I AlSO want my wife to back to work. Shes making ~$100k 16 years into public education. Thats all we need is for her to lose her job and make $30-40k at a private school and loose her pension and sweet health insurance :(
Despicable is a good word for it. It just sucks so bad.
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It will be ironic if the teachers unions and school boards inadvertently kill off public school. If enough middle class/wealthy parents pull their kids, you'll get a real downward spiral in a lot of places.
I am baffled by the behavior of educators and administrators. We've had zero problems in what now amounts to about 2/3 of our school year, with all kids in school all day, every day. I hear about these places where teachers won't go back even after being vaccinated and just shake my head. Honestly, that's just despicable. Being freaked last spring was fully justified. I was too. By fall it was pretty clear school was going to be fine. And now? FFS, you're vaccinated! Teach the f'ing kids!
-W
I just want to put this out there but maybe some of the folks resisting going back live in communities that aren't taking covid precautions? We have been "in person" all year and haven't seen horrible spread among younger kids, but athletic teams and teacher/coaches have definitely caught/spread it (because we haven't cancelled any activities). The teachers have been the hardest hit demographic in the school system (usually caught from other adults) Our district has also saw a bump in retirements/quitting after the first semester.
I also live in a town where there are currently no COVID restrictions other than mask recommendations and gyms, sports leagues, bars, restaurants, etc are all running at full capacity. I understand not wanting to go work in that environment and if I had a union to protect me I'd probably lean into that too.
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I just want to put this out there but maybe some of the folks resisting going back live in communities that aren't taking covid precautions? We have been "in person" all year and haven't seen horrible spread among younger kids, but athletic teams and teacher/coaches have definitely caught/spread it (because we haven't cancelled any activities). The teachers have been the hardest hit demographic in the school system (usually caught from other adults) Our district has also saw a bump in retirements/quitting after the first semester.
I also live in a town where there are currently no COVID restrictions other than mask recommendations and gyms, sports leagues, bars, restaurants, etc are all running at full capacity. I understand not wanting to go work in that environment and if I had a union to protect me I'd probably lean into that too.
Yes, we've had teachers go on holiday trips and attend family gatherings and get sick here too. Our bars and restaurants and such are all open and I'm sure some teachers got exposed in those kind of places as well, just like many members of the general public.
Zero got sick at school, to my knowledge. So, really, teaching in person (doing your job) is much safer than the stuff they were choosing to do for recreation...
Regardless, once you're vaccinated (Utah prioritized teachers and all willing ones are at this point)? Get in the classroom. There is zero excuse at that point - the union is not "protecting" anyone from anything, though they are risking their members long term future employment if everyone with enough resources to do so bails on the public schools.
BTW, my wife is a teacher (in person) in our local school system, so I'm not just idly criticizing people without understanding the circumstances.
-W
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Today my son's class is celebrating the 101st day of school, I don't have much to add to my previous comments on school being open other than it's still been a successful year. 3 schools in the district have so far completely avoided having to shut down for cleaning, and collectively there have been less than three weeks of a school building being fully closed while cases are allowed to expire.
It's been a community effort - one of the biggest reasons the schools have remained open (a good number of classrooms have been required to go virtual for a few days at a time due to contact tracing) is that a good number parents and teachers have kept themselves/their kids home if there is suspected or confirmed Covid. We get a daily digest of Covid cases in the district and the number of cases that don't count towards contact tracing/building closures (because people are quarantining and good-faith reporting) has outpaced the ones that do count by at least 2:1.
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I have a friend who has basically refused to socially distance her family and such, and she just put her kids in Catholic school. Thanks.
It seems like schools would be safer.
- I've got one friend who "doesn't believe the numbers" that there has been very little spread. "I know several of my students have had it." Well, were they on campus? Maybe some of them (we only have small cohorts on campus, of the neediest students.)
Plus a couple of people have died (administrators, etc.), but they didn't get it at the school so...
Word on the street is that we might open for hybrid elementary by March 1. No confirmation on that. This week, if it's happening, I should get a letter with my kid's "group" (A/B) and teacher assignment. Hybrid is 2 days a week.
We have people who are resisting going back because our communities are at risk. Multi-generational housing, etc. The smaller richer schools are open - but we are talking elementary schools with 250 students, not 600+ like many of ours.
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Our teachers' union latches on to any national story of a teacher who dies of covid and shares the article. Not one indicates that the teacher actually contacted covid at school. I assume it happens and know that masked, socially distancing colleagues are not considered close contacts for purposes of contact tracing, but we should have some decent data by now as to how many teachers contacted and died from covid contacted in schools since September.
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I'm a remodeling contractor and the poor 8 year old daughter of my current clients is an only child and the grandma lives there plus the Mom works in a hospital so they've understandably been REALLY careful with Covid/socialization.
We started remodeling the 2nd bathroom last week and today reached the point we had to yank the toilet. So I had to start using daughters brand new ensuite bath (that I just built) and she's got a note taped to her mirror:
1. Wake up
2. Brush teeth
3. Eat breakfast
4. Fuss around with dog, brush hair
5. Virtual School
6. Tv show/dinner
7. go to sleep
AND THAT'S MY PRISON ROUTINE!!!!!
She wrote it just like that; all caps with larger font too.
Meanwhile the teachers in that county did a "drive in protest" that was allover the news today with signs like "we're dedicated but won't risk our lives" and all kinds of non sense. Potentially some of the same teachers that were mostly fine with "risking their lives" to enjoy the beach all summer, friends baby showers etc. One of my wifes ex coworkers lived at her beach house until almost Thanksgiving because in her words "they had more open then our stupid liberal county" but now it's too dangerous for her to return to work? I mean WTF people :( And they're posting this stuff on FB so not exactly hiding their hypocrisy.
Our county's union voted "no confidence" in the boards return to school plan. No idea what that vote means in the real world but I sure hope it doesn't screw up the March 15th return.
I had a mild dislike of unions pre-covid but it's growing into a pretty deep hatred now.
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The NYT threw the teacher's unions under the bus this morning. So I'd guess sympathies have gotten *real* limited there. We'll see.
-W
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My city is opening in-person school to elementary students in March. Hell no am I sending my 7 year old to school when all the advice is "stay away from indoor gatherings". We'll see people outside or not at all.
Maybe the teachers will be vaccinated (or maybe not, the city clearly doesn't care) but she won't, and while I don't believe she'll die there are still some nasty long-term effects of Covid, comparable to ME/CFS, and I'm not signing my child up for 70 years of misery. Not to mention, all this stuff about "little in-school transmission" fails to mention that almost no schools are doing regular testing of asymptomatic students (many or most childhood cases), so we really have no idea what's going on there.
If the quality of remote school tanks then we will just homeschool for the rest of the year. Honestly I've met almost no parents here who want their kids in-person despite a 14 day case avg of 16/100k which is not too bad. I hate that all the newspaper articles are blaming the unions and burying the lede that less than half of parents are willing to let their kids go out, more like 15% in some groups.
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Man, that's weird. I live in a very rich (VERY rich) liberal community, in a very red/conservative state, and parents both locally and statewide are almost universally for in person school. I think maybe 5% of our kids are still remote here.
I think Covid has just kind of broken some people mentally, and they are basically never going to feel safe again. That's a shame for their kids who will be harmed by their paranoia.
-W
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I live in the San Francisco Bay Area in a very liberal city surrounded by a sea of blue. The last survey that went out, 75% of families said that they would send their kid to school in person as soon as it was offered. The media and the school administration here used spin to make parents think that going back wasn’t the majority opinion. But the survey results in July / August and again now both showed that the majority of families would go back.
Our area hospitals are seeing massive mental health impacts and numerous suicide attempts in children. The inpatient psychiatric units are at capacity. The number of eating disorders and other serious mental health problems are skyrocketing. There are very real, measurable, currently documented harms to children from extended school closure and isolation. People don’t just recover from mental health issues - it’s a long slog and for many there are lifelong impacts.
Yes, COVID is a risk. But all evidence points to it being extremely safe to open schools with in school transmission uncommon. When in school transmission is documented, it’s typically between the adults and often linked to eating lunch with a colleague or socializing without masks (this is the case in the hospital setting too). And the adults are already working from the school buildings while the kids are at home. The transmission from child to adult in schools is exceedingly rare - there have been about 15,000 kids in (private) school in San Francisco and a similar number of kids in public school just north of there in Marin since September and they haven’t seen a single case where a child transmitted COVID to an adult in that time period. They also haven’t seen a single outbreak associated with school - the in school transmission is uncommon and has been single cases.
It’s one thing to make a decision to keep your own kids in distance learning. But to advocate that everyone else should be forced to do the same thing is harmful. Our children have had to endure serious consequences to protect our elders during this pandemic. We have a moral obligation to begin doing what’s best for them now.
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UGGGGGGH
Now we get an email today from DD2's teacher that she is remaining 100% virtual.
So now we have to choose sending our daughter to school but changing teachers or staying Virtual to keep her teacher since September.
What bullshit. I am so F*^KING mad right now after having tried to remain pretty calm about this whole school thing I stupidly got my hopes up when the County made the announcement only to be slapped in the face and now have to discuss this with my daughter with one of us being disappointed no matter what.
Now daughters teacher called and says she will still be her teacher virtually....
So the countys plan is for DD to go to school, wear a mask all day, sit in a room with $15 per hour babysitter the county's hiring, and still "learn" from her Chrome book all day.
My anger has subsided to just sadness and helplessness.
These poor kids man :(
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My city is opening in-person school to elementary students in March. Hell no am I sending my 7 year old to school when all the advice is "stay away from indoor gatherings". We'll see people outside or not at all.
Maybe the teachers will be vaccinated (or maybe not, the city clearly doesn't care) but she won't, and while I don't believe she'll die there are still some nasty long-term effects of Covid, comparable to ME/CFS, and I'm not signing my child up for 70 years of misery. Not to mention, all this stuff about "little in-school transmission" fails to mention that almost no schools are doing regular testing of asymptomatic students (many or most childhood cases), so we really have no idea what's going on there.
If the quality of remote school tanks then we will just homeschool for the rest of the year. Honestly I've met almost no parents here who want their kids in-person despite a 14 day case avg of 16/100k which is not too bad. I hate that all the newspaper articles are blaming the unions and burying the lede that less than half of parents are willing to let their kids go out, more like 15% in some groups.
I'll echo @waltworks and toss another one for that being just such a different mindset. In our district, back in July, 87% of families opted for in-person learning. The number rose to 91% after the first two weeks of school.
I'm not saying this to diminish your concerns - they are both real and appropriate, but for what it's worth, we haven't had a single student or faculty member pass away from Covid in our district (if one had, we would have received notifications of grief counseling and support available to all students). My son's bus driver did die of a heart attack though, an hour before he was supposed to make the PM bus run, and the district engaged grief counseling services, so it's not like they're hiding anything.
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There's an interesting NYT article this morning about how public health professionals have just outright failed to communicate effectively with the public, such that people really believe a lot of disproven/paranoid worst-case scenario stuff. We'll be struggling with this for years.
The worst part is that a lot of people don't think the vaccines even work, thanks to inappropriate use of the word "effective" and excessive caution in making official recommendations, ie:
"It's unclear if vaccinated individuals are still contagious."
rather than:
"No, you aren't going to infect anyone else once you're vaccinated, that's not how vaccines work. We haven't finished studying that with this particular vaccine, so it won't hurt anything to keep wearing your mask for now just to be on the safe side, but there's pretty much no chance it's going to be a problem."
Your kids are in much, much more danger in your car on the way to dance lessons than they are at school.
-W
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I feel lucky to live/associate with around a number of doctors and other healthcare folks whose behavior tempered my concerns about children from the beginning. They all take precautions but their children stayed in daycare, played outside with other children, and went back to to school full time where possible.
Two of my children's daycare friends (as well as some staff members)tested positive for covid due to parent transmission and it did not spread at all in the daycare (masked inside but not outside and frequently in close contact).
The teachers union here balks when it's pointed out that the private/suburban schools (where most of their children are) have been in person since Sept because our district is "different." Older buildings, fewer teachers, less space, etc.
BS. This doesn't hold up when you look at the data and the fact that only 25 percent of students are returning. Then they argue that 75% of families don't feel that it's safe enough to return, so why would we reopen? Again, BS, because that is spin and there are other reasons why people stay home or failed to respond, and it shouldn't prevent others from coming back if they want to.
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I'm pretty pro-union, but the recent behavior of a lot of the teacher's unions in the US, I'd tentatively support shutting them down. I feel awful about that, because I feel like teachers need a lot more pay and respect (again, my wife is a teacher, so I know just how poorly they're paid) and collective bargaining is a good way to help address those problems - but the reality is that refusing to go back to school now is harming kids, for ZERO benefit. That's despicable. If that's what the unions are going to use their power for, they (or at least their current leadership) should be disbanded.
-W
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My daughter's district still has yet to release any reopening plan, after cancelling a planned January reopening. I'm feeling really frustrated that teachers are being prioritized for vaccination even without a reopening plan. They shouldn't be able to have it both ways - either reopen schools, or move teachers to the back of the line and let people who can't work remotely go first.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/02/upshot/covid-opening-schools-experts.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Warning, paywalled.
-W
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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/02/upshot/covid-opening-schools-experts.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Warning, paywalled.
-W
That was good. Our elementary district opened schools yesterday. They opened hybrid, so two different cohorts, who go on different days. Mon/Thu and Tue/Fri. For the 1st two days this week, it was only TK, K and 1st grade, to get everyone used to it.
This week has been like week 1 all over again, as his teacher now teaches a combo 2/3 class. So, nobody is AT school, she lost 12 third graders to different teachers, and gained 10+ second graders.
Thursday, it will be the full school, and FINALLY my 3rd grader will go to school in person. He's not excited about it, but I am! I'm sure he'll do fine.
Still not eligible for HS, but a friend's son is at a private HS and attends full classes every day. Has since November I think.
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My son’s school is finally opening for “struggling” kids next week. Academically he is fine - ahead in reading and math, behind in writing. But he’s been selected for this first group because first he was disruptive on Zoom (which was addressed by the teacher and school therapist). Now he refuses to turn on his camera or participate / answer questions when asked in class. I guess the teaching him to not be disruptive worked too well.
In any case, school is open to him from 1:30-3:30 three days per week. Six hours total. I think we’re going to do it because he needs it, but it means we might have to give up camp which is from 2-6 five days a week. Trying to decide if there’s enough value in school to give up 20 hrs / week of peer interaction. Plus the schedule is terrible and there’s no transportation. I’m just hoping the school will let him leave alone without an adult this year. Otherwise it won’t be workable at all.
I know if we don’t take it, the district will use it as an example that x% of kids didn’t come back when offered. Like offering 2 hrs in the middle of a workday with no transportation is a viable option. So frustrating.
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I'm very happy that our kids have been in school all year since August. It's been worth it to pay for a private school. Just the short time during breaks has been tough with lots of kids getting on each other's nerves (we have a large family). I was deployed when the pandemic started and they shut down school and went to virtual last year. My wife said there was a huge positive improvement in their attitude and behavior once they went back to school and were able to see their friends and not be cooped up at home with just their siblings day after day.
The main public school district here will probably not reopen until next fall at the current rate - even though all the teachers will probably be vaccinated in the next few weeks.
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My daughter's district still has yet to release any reopening plan, after cancelling a planned January reopening. I'm feeling really frustrated that teachers are being prioritized for vaccination even without a reopening plan. They shouldn't be able to have it both ways - either reopen schools, or move teachers to the back of the line and let people who can't work remotely go first.
Update: after some pressure from the state, they will be reopening in early April. We decided to continue homeschooling through the end of the year though. They'll only be in-person two mornings a week, and it doesn't seem worth it to switch her from homeschool to distance learning for only a few hours a week of in-person school, especially with only two months left in the school year.
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My city is opening in-person school to elementary students in March. Hell no am I sending my 7 year old to school when all the advice is "stay away from indoor gatherings". We'll see people outside or not at all.
Maybe the teachers will be vaccinated (or maybe not, the city clearly doesn't care) but she won't, and while I don't believe she'll die there are still some nasty long-term effects of Covid, comparable to ME/CFS, and I'm not signing my child up for 70 years of misery. Not to mention, all this stuff about "little in-school transmission" fails to mention that almost no schools are doing regular testing of asymptomatic students (many or most childhood cases), so we really have no idea what's going on there.
If the quality of remote school tanks then we will just homeschool for the rest of the year. Honestly I've met almost no parents here who want their kids in-person despite a 14 day case avg of 16/100k which is not too bad. I hate that all the newspaper articles are blaming the unions and burying the lede that less than half of parents are willing to let their kids go out, more like 15% in some groups.
This is exactly how I feel! I pulled my 6 yr old to homeschool three weeks ago and we are loving it. May continue post covid
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Well, my DS2 (3rd grade) started back hybrid last week. Two days per week in person, two days remote/ asynchronous learning, one day zoom.
It's still early, but so far I LOVE it. So much better than full remote. Full remote was always a battle of getting him to pay attention and THEN do his work and THEN do his homework. Writing especially.
He literally had not seen a single friend in person since last March 13.
So, the 2 days he has been in person so far, he's come home exhausted.
We are on day 2 of "asynchronous learning", which starts with an in person zoom of about 10-15 minutes to go over the day's work. He has his 3 specials on these days (art one day, PE/music on the other). Otherwise, he has math assignments to complete, writing to complete, and reading to complete - just like it was when he was in class.
But SHOOT - he just...does it? Far less arguing than before. Even his WRITING!! Okay, getting him to pick a book to read (we have dozens at home) is a challenge. He also still has homework after lunch time, which is some online assignments and more reading but MAN.
I don't want to jinx it, but it's working so much better for us and I can actually WORK. I can concentrate on the days he is at school, and even on the days we are sharing the "office" (the kids' bedroom).
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I’m just hoping the school will let him leave alone without an adult this year. Otherwise it won’t be workable at all.
If that's one of the only things stopping you from sending him in person, see if the school will allow him to leave if you write them a letter giving permission for him to leave alone. I did this when my kids were younger to get around the district's ridiculous rule that kids in grade 3 and below wouldn't be allowed off the school bus unless there was an adult or older sibling there to meet them. In fact, I did it several years in a row and now letting your little kid off the bus alone is just a checkbox on the bus registration form.
In other news, DH and I have been trying to get our 14yo to have better work habits at home. She only goes to school half days and the rest of the day she's supposed to work on homework at home. She's not productive alone in her room and it's also not been great for her mental health. It's been a battle that DH and I were losing completely. Today, for unrelated reasons, I shared with her that I've come to hate working from home and am looking forward to going back to the office because I'm so bloody tired of being alone all the time.
She promptly collected her books and sat down at the dining room table with me. Huge improvement for both of us. She's great company and is more willing to ask for help when she gets stuck because I'm already right there.
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The school won't let a kid leave without an adult?!? You have to fill out a form? WTF? Is that what happens most places?
Here the kids just stream out the exits. Lots of them get picked up by moms in SUVs/take the school bus of course, but there must be at least a hundred that just scatter in all directions to walk/scooter/bike home. Both our older kids started handling their own school transportation in kindergarten with only occasional assists from us.
-W
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Well, my DS2 (3rd grade) started back hybrid last week. Two days per week in person, two days remote/ asynchronous learning, one day zoom.
It's still early, but so far I LOVE it. So much better than full remote. Full remote was always a battle of getting him to pay attention and THEN do his work and THEN do his homework. Writing especially.
He literally had not seen a single friend in person since last March 13.
So, the 2 days he has been in person so far, he's come home exhausted.
We are on day 2 of "asynchronous learning", which starts with an in person zoom of about 10-15 minutes to go over the day's work. He has his 3 specials on these days (art one day, PE/music on the other). Otherwise, he has math assignments to complete, writing to complete, and reading to complete - just like it was when he was in class.
But SHOOT - he just...does it? Far less arguing than before. Even his WRITING!! Okay, getting him to pick a book to read (we have dozens at home) is a challenge. He also still has homework after lunch time, which is some online assignments and more reading but MAN.
I don't want to jinx it, but it's working so much better for us and I can actually WORK. I can concentrate on the days he is at school, and even on the days we are sharing the "office" (the kids' bedroom).
So glad it's off to a good start for him (and you) !!
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And yesterday, on a whim, I ordered a boxed set of books that one of his classmates moms mentioned. She'd asked for book advice, bought these books, and her son was hooked.
I dug them out when he said "I'm NOT doing more READING" after lunch. They literally came this morning.
He sat down and started reading. DH comes to check on him. He says "this book is good, and I've read 64 pages! It feels like I've been reading 30 minutes." Buddy, it's been 1.5 hours. "Boy, time flies when you are reading a good book!" Ha.
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@mm1970 - do you mind sharing the book series? you know I'm always looking for new books for StarBoy :)
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@mm1970 - do you mind sharing the book series? you know I'm always looking for new books for StarBoy :)
@StarBright
Warrior Cats!
https://www.amazon.com/Warriors-Box-Set-Complete-Prophecies/dp/0062367145
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The school won't let a kid leave without an adult?!? You have to fill out a form? WTF? Is that what happens most places?
Our kid’s teacher is ok with just letting him leave, so I’m going with it. But to this question, I think the answer is yes, in most places kids under a certain age can’t leave without an adult. Our school doesn’t have any written policy, but generally 3rd graders and younger don’t leave alone. The after school camps used to require kids to be 11 to sign themselves out. That’s 6th grade folks. Ridiculous.
The one silver lining of covid is that everyone has finally gotten way more flexible on this. The camp will allow any kid to leave as long as the box is checked on the form. And now a bunch of 3rd graders are waking to and from camp alone. I think it’s great.
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In the bay area, and our kids have been out of school for a year. We just heard yesterday on the high school re-opening plans. They've gotten to 90% vaccinated for their staff, and because only 50% of parents opted to send their kids back in person, they can finally hit the re-opening guidelines. They are going back April 19th, so after spring break. School ends the first week of June, so it will be very limited interaction, but I don't care at this point. I have a 9th grader with ADHD, who desperately needs the structure of school based learning. I'm counting down the days.
My 8th grader is going back April 5th. Instruction time will be very limited for the first few weeks, but they are hoping to change that following spring break. Only 35% of parents opted to send their kids back in person. I'm stunned by these numbers.
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In the bay area, and our kids have been out of school for a year. We just heard yesterday on the high school re-opening plans. They've gotten to 90% vaccinated for their staff, and because only 50% of parents opted to send their kids back in person, they can finally hit the re-opening guidelines. They are going back April 19th, so after spring break. School ends the first week of June, so it will be very limited interaction, but I don't care at this point. I have a 9th grader with ADHD, who desperately needs the structure of school based learning. I'm counting down the days.
My 8th grader is going back April 5th. Instruction time will be very limited for the first few weeks, but they are hoping to change that following spring break. Only 35% of parents opted to send their kids back in person. I'm stunned by these numbers.
We are still waiting to get the news, but we could qualify to open as early as next week for our high schoolers. Spring break is the week after, ha!
Interestingly, we have 3 high schools locally. The % of families who opted to stay remote are 35.8%, 34.4%, and 28%. My son goes to the 28% school. I guess this doesn't really surprise me too much. Interesting though, as the demographics aren't all that different.
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People will send their kids back as they see things going ok. We had something like 10% remote starting in August, and they have pretty much all trickled back in at this point (which isn't so great, because a ton of people with kids moved here, so our school is bursting at the seams).
It's like a lot of things - if all your friends are sending their kids back to school, you probably will too. If most of the people you know are keeping their kids remote, same thing.
I do wonder if in some places this will be the beginning of the end for public schools, though.
-W
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My 8th grader is going back April 5th. Instruction time will be very limited for the first few weeks, but they are hoping to change that following spring break. Only 35% of parents opted to send their kids back in person. I'm stunned by these numbers.
My sister has similar-age elementary school kids to us and has already said that she won't send them back to school until they're vaccinated. At this rate, that's probably not going to occur until this fall since the priority is adults. Kids are pretty much unaffected by COVID - and as a country we are rapidly approaching the point of herd immunity between the tens of millions who have already had the disease and the 64 million (as of today) who have received at least one vaccine dose. I'm looking at the latest county-by-county map here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html and there is a lot of white space. Albeit that's generally in rural counties, but across the board cases are dropping and the vaccines are going to keep that trajectory moving downward.
I think some people have an irrational fear of this virus, at least when it comes to kids. Millions of kids have been in school, in-person, during the 2020-2021 school year and it's basically been fine in all those districts.
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My 8th grader is going back April 5th. Instruction time will be very limited for the first few weeks, but they are hoping to change that following spring break. Only 35% of parents opted to send their kids back in person. I'm stunned by these numbers.
My sister has similar-age elementary school kids to us and has already said that she won't send them back to school until they're vaccinated. At this rate, that's probably not going to occur until this fall since the priority is adults. Kids are pretty much unaffected by COVID - and as a country we are rapidly approaching the point of herd immunity between the tens of millions who have already had the disease and the 64 million (as of today) who have received at least one vaccine dose. I'm looking at the latest county-by-county map here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html and there is a lot of white space. Albeit that's generally in rural counties, but across the board cases are dropping and the vaccines are going to keep that trajectory moving downward.
I think some people have an irrational fear of this virus, at least when it comes to kids. Millions of kids have been in school, in-person, during the 2020-2021 school year and it's basically been fine in all those districts.
I do know people who have health based reasons not to send their kids back (a parent with a very serious underlying health condition, a kid who has a health issue so severe that COVID could potentially be deadly, etc). Unfortunately, the timing of our return coincides with California vaccinating adults who have serious conditions. At the time we had to make a selection, it was unclear if adults with health serious health conditions would be vaccinated in time for the school opening. So, I certainly can understand that. And, in our district, there are no changes. There are only six weeks left (after the return), so you are required to stay with whatever option you've selected.
My 8th grade son's BFFs family have opted to keep him in remote learning. They like the flexibility. No health concerns of any kind on either side, and they went skiing, stayed in a hotel, traveled etc over a recent break. It is harder to message to my own kids, when their friends are not all going back. However, that's a problem I'm willing to solve (it's non-negotiable in our family). Both of our kids have suffered tremendously - one socially, the one with ADHD academically. I do not think the flexibility outweighs the risks in our family, for this particular age group.
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I think some people have an irrational fear of this virus, at least when it comes to kids. Millions of kids have been in school, in-person, during the 2020-2021 school year and it's basically been fine in all those districts.
Our schools were open on a hybrid schedule at the start of the school year and we went back full time two weeks ago. While it has basically been fine, what feels like constant shut downs haven't been easy either. I appreciate the stability of just knowing that your kids are going to be home.
We shut down again this morning because there weren't enough subs to staff some of the schools. This is the third time they haven't been able to staff the schools this year. We also went totally remote from mid November until mid-January because of outbreaks in the schools that happened before Thanksgiving. They figured if our numbers were so bad before any holiday travel it wasn't worth opening the schools back up until the new year.
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I do wonder if in some places this will be the beginning of the end for public schools, though.
-W
Our public elementary is going back in person 4 days a week starting a wk from Monday (hooray!).
Every single neighbor that I know in this well-regarded public school, is of applying for private, parochial, or charter school for next fall, except for us. Honestly, I don’t really get that mindset now that we see the light at the end of the tunnel.
The prevailing sentiment is that they “just don’t trust the district’s board of education anymore.”
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Every single neighbor that I know in this well-regarded public school, is of applying for private, parochial, or charter school for next fall, except for us. Honestly, I don’t really get that mindset now that we see the light at the end of the tunnel.
The prevailing sentiment is that they “just don’t trust the district’s board of education anymore.”
The light at the end of the tunnel might be a train...
When these kids who have been out of school for a year finally come back, they’re bringing their baggage with them. It’s going to be a shit show trying to balance the needs of the kids from disadvantaged backgrounds with those who had parents or professional pod teachers working with them all year. Also lots of kids are coming back with serious mental health impacts that have to be addressed.
There’s also been an exodus from the public schools already. Our district is down 9% this year - no one knows how bad it will be next year. But that’s a lot of funding lost in a year - and a lot of budget cuts coming down the line.
We ended up keeping one kid in public and waiting it out (he starts back in mid April), and we moved the other kid to private (she’s been in person since January). The one in private school is staying there even if schools reopen. She was having panic attacks from the uncertainty and chaos — and I just don’t think that element is going to be any better in the fall. The one in public school will stay there because he is a super flexible child and can deal with almost anything life throws at him. Also money. Yikes!
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We've had in-person school, five days a week, here in Florida since August.
We have two high schoolers. DW is an elementary school art teacher.
We live in the most densely populated county in Florida. The county has not had one COVID death, knock on wood, to a teacher, student or staff member. The national mainstream media will not report on this because it doesn't fit the COVID bogeyman narrative that school is unsafe and we must wait until COVID is completely eradicated.
What a waste of a year for most of the country's children.
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Not entirely true, the NYT has been doing some reporting about this issue that is pretty critical of districts that did not open in person.
Closing down schools made sense last March. It made none in August.
-W