Author Topic: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification  (Read 5255 times)

Comar

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Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« on: April 04, 2017, 05:14:48 AM »
My 4 year old wants a Bowser toy (bad guy from Mario Brothers) which costs about 20 dollars. I feel I should somehow be able to teach him delayed gratification and this could be a good lesson. I'm thinking about making a "Bowser jar" which will not take a long time to fill with coins he will be told he needs to buy Bowser. So there will not be chores to do for money, he just has to wait and be patient. My only headache is what should slow the saving process. For example if he does X, the money will not grow.

Ideas?

Vindicated

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2017, 06:21:33 AM »
Slowing the savings when he does something wrong may not be the best route.  I think you'd be better off ADDING to savings when he does something right.  This teaches positive reinforcement rather than negative.

Go get yourself $20 in quarters and tell him you will put one in the jar if you need him to do something and he does it. 

I look forward to seeing what other people have used successfully to motivate small children.

MayDay

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 06:42:49 AM »
At 4, my kids could do moneyath to figure out 20$ worth of savings.

I don't know why you would want to trick them or make it a game. Just tell him how much it costs, and help him add up whatever he earns. If he wants candy or whatever, tell him how much it costs, and talk about how much longer it will take to get Bowser if he buys the candy.

If you don't give him the chance to spend money and make mistakes he isn't really going to learn anything.

And this isn't a lesson the average kid will learn in one go round. It'll take aot of repetition ime.

Laura33

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2017, 07:54:10 AM »
I think it's tricky to generate made-up games and rules to teach a point, especially when you are conflating two life lessons into the same thing (here, the concept/value of money/importance of saving + the concept of delayed gratification).  I would be more inclined to let "money and things" be "money and things" -- i.e., if he wants a toy that costs $X, then he is going to need to save up for it, through allowance or extra chores or whatever.  Note that this naturally teaches delayed gratification anyway, as it will take some time to save up the money; you don't have to invent some special lesson to teach that. 

You can also teach delayed gratification on its own through your behavior, as appropriate for his age/abilities -- e.g., if he calls you when you are wrapped up in something, you tell him that you are busy but will be with him as soon as you are done (and that may be 10 seconds at 4 vs. 5 minutes when he gets older); he wants a snack but dinner is in 15 minutes so he can wait (or he wants dessert first but has to finish his dinner first); etc.  Over time, that daily reinforcement of the concept is going to have far more impact than a made-up game.

The problem with made-up games that are sort of divorced from reality is you never know what lesson they are going to take from it.  You think you are teaching him delayed gratification -- but maybe he thinks the lesson is that when he does XYZ, mommy buys him toys.  I think kids are more likely to get the "right" lesson when you engineer less and keep the causes and consequences as close to the way things naturally work as possible -- it's just much more natural to say, hey, you want a toy, ok, toys cost money, so let's think of how you can earn that money so you can buy it.

Tl;dr:  "Teachable moments" are such because of the *moment*, not because you figured out a special way to force the *teaching*.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2017, 12:26:04 PM »
Does he not get an allowance? My four-year-old gets $2/week and has in the past saved as high as $10.

If it were me, I would use actual dollars and start the kid on an allowance. If you want it to take a while but not be too hard, you can offer to split it with him--when he saves $10, you'll chip in the rest.

At my house, we do not explicitly tie allowances to chores, but if you are old enough for allowance, you are old enough for small chores.


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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 12:49:47 PM »
My child is 4 and gets $4/week for his allowance.  He also gets coins from his grandparents on occasion (I encourage them to give him a dollar instead of endless amounts of chocolate…).  He had no problem saving up for a few months for the lego set he wanted.

Of course, now that he has his lego set, within a day he identified another set he wants and won't stop talking about it, so I'm not sure how well my parenting is going...

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 01:14:30 PM »
Just did a post that my ipad deleted... Will write something else it hopefully approves of more...

In short, I've done all the right things (as outlined by others, above) and have been very consistent in those, yet eight years in (he's 12 now) my kid still has very limited skill in delayed gratification. That's okay by me because he's young and learning and has a diagnosed executive functioning disability, and if it takes longer for him to learn it, that's okay.

He gets it, though, and does take full responsibility for his spending patterns, accepts the facts when he has sabotaged himself, chooses to leave his wallet at home more often, plans his spending more, selects cheaper random stuff than before. So, he's not quite at delayed gratification but is in a great place overall.

I guess in his case, despite my conscientious parenting he has not developed this skill...but he has developed excellent workarounds that honour that.

Laura33

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2017, 02:13:49 PM »
Just did a post that my ipad deleted... Will write something else it hopefully approves of more...

In short, I've done all the right things (as outlined by others, above) and have been very consistent in those, yet eight years in (he's 12 now) my kid still has very limited skill in delayed gratification. That's okay by me because he's young and learning and has a diagnosed executive functioning disability, and if it takes longer for him to learn it, that's okay.

He gets it, though, and does take full responsibility for his spending patterns, accepts the facts when he has sabotaged himself, chooses to leave his wallet at home more often, plans his spending more, selects cheaper random stuff than before. So, he's not quite at delayed gratification but is in a great place overall.

I guess in his case, despite my conscientious parenting he has not developed this skill...but he has developed excellent workarounds that honour that.

Yeah, see, I think this is a totally different situation.  My DS took to the concept of savings and delayed gratification like a duck to water.  His older sister, OTOH, has ADHD and is massively impulsive and would run through the Powerball if given the opportunity.  She completely understands the concept and really wants to save her money, but she doesn't (yet) have the executive function to force the logical part of her brain to override the instinctive "oooohhhh, shiny" response.  It has gotten better as she matures, but it will always be much more of a struggle for her than it is for her brother.  So we have tried to work with her to develop skills and habits to manage her own brain.  Ideas like "leave the wallet at home and put $5 in your pocket" are as helpful for managing impulsiveness as "put everything you need for the day in front of the door so you can't miss it on the way out" is for managing forgetfulness.

IOW, it's not that the concepts and lessons above are wrong, or on the flip side that doing everything "right" will guarantee success.  The concepts and lessons above are the fundamentals that all kids need to learn.  But some kids are wired differently and are just going to need additional skills on top of all of that, so that they can learn to manage themselves.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2017, 03:25:13 PM »
Laura33, very beautifully put! That is 100% my experience, yes.

I provided live-in support to two other kids, one an extreme saver from age 4 and the other very balanced. There's definitely an element of nature vs nurture here. As long as we don't just throw our hands in the air with the struggling kids, they can have great results too -just through methods that recognize their unique stuff.

Frugal Lizard

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2017, 04:14:52 PM »
Both my kids seem to have delayed gratification (15 and 12) but I have no idea how or if I had anything to do with it.  I tried to provide a lot of opportunities to learn and perhaps fail but not sure if that is what worked or they were born this way. 

For example: I have never limited their candy intake.  From the earliest of age they could eat whatever.  I just suggested that they stop before they got sick.  Candy would be sitting around in plain sight in our house.  Now, the kids have a candy drawer that they share so that we don't have to remember to hide the candy when other kids come over. Most visitors can't resist it and then my kids' stash is gone or they have to say no to the friends. My guys don't eat each others chocolate and now that it is in a drawer it hangs around forever.  In fact the Christmas haul is just disappearing now that Easter is upon us.  So we had lots of delayed gratification learning opportunities. 

But I don't know if this system of abundance would work for my four year old nephew.  He seems to have an insatiable appetite for sweets and doesn't stop before he gets sick while mom and dad are constantly policing all sugar intake.  It is a continuous exhausting battle of limiting and negotiating.  Part of me wonders if I had him for the weekend and let him gorge until he got sick.  Would he be able to reset himself to provide his own control mechanisms?  But my brother and SIL never have part bags of chips or part bottles of wine in their house while we can have both. I don't buy juice anymore because it goes bad before it gets drunk.  At least wine can be used in cooking.

Nature or nurture?  I don't know.   Part of me thinks a lot of parenting is just modeling the behaviour you want. And I am down on spending my breath on policing stuff.  When and how do kids learn these important lessons, I don't know exactly. I think considering how to teach them will likely mean that you will instill the values whatever method you choose because it is a priority.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2017, 04:21:30 PM »
^ I think most caregivers of kids like your nephew went with abundance first, and were mortified to find the kid never hit satiation...even when physical sickness hit! Gabor Mate's book In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts provides an excellent exploration of this physicial/neurological orientation.

EMDR has been profoundly helpful for my kid in this area. (We hadn't thought to target impulse spending; maybe we will!)

moof

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2017, 04:45:21 PM »
Our 4 year old has had a "Lego Jar" for over a year.  It is now just his spending jar.  He gets $2 a week for doing his chores and being a good family member.  He has been docket just a couple times when he was falling well short of that.

He's used the money for things like:
1)  Lego's.  So. Many. Legos.
2)  Buying mom earrings and cozy socks for Xmas, he was quite specific about where he wanted to go and what he wanted to get for her.  Socks were bonus that he liked.
3)  Honey Nut Cheerios.  Seriously.  We reminded him he had quite the wad of cash, and asked if he wanted to buy anything with it.  He wanted to go to Target, and was very specific and excited to choose the box and pay for it himself, and kept it next to his seat on the ride home.  He tried to take it to nap time.

We also only allow 1 "dessert" a day.  He is still working on his Halloween candy...  He knows and reminds us if he has already had his dessert for the day and knows he can't have a second one in the evening if he had a cookie at lunch.  We use this as a way to remind him that if he waits until after dinner he can have ice cream for example.  He pauses, and makes his decision, though not always the one we are hoping for.

Comar

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2017, 02:44:12 AM »
Slowing the savings when he does something wrong may not be the best route.  I think you'd be better off ADDING to savings when he does something right.  This teaches positive reinforcement rather than negative.
Very good point. Might make him disinterested or discouraged if there is just negative consequences.

At 4, my kids could do moneyath to figure out 20$ worth of savings.

I don't know why you would want to trick them or make it a game. Just tell him how much it costs, and help him add up whatever he earns. If he wants candy or whatever, tell him how much it costs, and talk about how much longer it will take to get Bowser if he buys the candy.

If you don't give him the chance to spend money and make mistakes he isn't really going to learn anything.

And this isn't a lesson the average kid will learn in one go round. It'll take aot of repetition ime.
Yes I think after some consideration I will simply start giving him a small allowance every week and see what he does with it. Try to nudge him in the right direction but let him learn by trial and error.

The problem with made-up games that are sort of divorced from reality is you never know what lesson they are going to take from it.  You think you are teaching him delayed gratification -- but maybe he thinks the lesson is that when he does XYZ, mommy buys him toys.  I think kids are more likely to get the "right" lesson when you engineer less and keep the causes and consequences as close to the way things naturally work as possible -- it's just much more natural to say, hey, you want a toy, ok, toys cost money, so let's think of how you can earn that money so you can buy it.
"Divorced from reality" good point I might give him the wrong ideas and make it over complicated.

Does he not get an allowance? My four-year-old gets $2/week and has in the past saved as high as $10.

If it were me, I would use actual dollars and start the kid on an allowance.

I'm going to start now. I haven't yet because I don't know he is so young and money is the world of complicated adult life. So I've kinda felt like he is too young and innocent for money. But I'm wrong because the sooner he starts good habits the better.

My child is 4 and gets $4/week for his allowance.  He also gets coins from his grandparents on occasion (I encourage them to give him a dollar instead of endless amounts of chocolate…).  He had no problem saving up for a few months for the lego set he wanted.

Of course, now that he has his lego set, within a day he identified another set he wants and won't stop talking about it, so I'm not sure how well my parenting is going...
Haha I'm sure you are doing fine and I expect similar results from my kid.

3)  Honey Nut Cheerios.  Seriously.  We reminded him he had quite the wad of cash, and asked if he wanted to buy anything with it.  He wanted to go to Target, and was very specific and excited to choose the box and pay for it himself, and kept it next to his seat on the ride home.  He tried to take it to nap time.
LoL that is hilarious XD.

Hadilly

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2017, 08:50:29 AM »
I would consider teaching delayed gratification in multiple ways. Like, you can have a very small portion of favorite tasty treat today or a regular portion tomorrow. If you save $10, I will match the other $10. Today, I only have time to do x with you, tomorrow I can do x&y.

Basically, I like to set up scenarios where the advantage of waiting is clear to a kid.

Hadilly

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2017, 08:56:12 AM »
Had trouble editing my post so I will add that I also talk about ways I pursue delayed gratification and have w we pursue it as a family to the end of a larger or favorite goal.

I recommend that you read Mindset by Carol Dweck if you get a chance.

NeonPegasus

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2017, 10:23:16 AM »
I started my kids with allowance at 3, which is the earliest they can be remotely helpful in the house. Chores do not equal allowance but they start at the same time. My schtick goes something like, "You are an important part of this family so we need your help. That's why you have chores. You also get to share in the family's wealth." We start at a dollar/week at age 3. So, 9 year old gets $7/week, 7 year old gets $5/week and 3 year old gets $1/week.

The older two are required to save 50% of their allowance. I have them hand over the money at the end of the month and I put it in a Betterment account in their name. They gripe but they also love seeing the money grow. Each has several hundred dollars now. I'm trying to teach them that if they can save 50% of what they get, they will always be fine financially.

The other 50% is theirs to use to buy whatever they want (except candy because that got out of hand). They are also required to use it to replace lost water bottles and school sweaters. Guess who works hard to find their lost stuff? ;)

Anyway, giving your 4 year old an allowance, while allowing him to earn extra money for extra chores, should be sufficient for teaching delayed gratification. The key is to let him have responsibility for blowing his money on something else if he chooses and don't give in to buying the Bowser toy. He may decide that he didn't want it as much as he thought or he may realize that he regrets spending his money on something else instead.

Laura33

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2017, 10:47:57 AM »
The key is to let him have responsibility for blowing his money on something else if he chooses and don't give in to buying the Bowser toy. He may decide that he didn't want it as much as he thought or he may realize that he regrets spending his money on something else instead.

I think this part is worth emphasizing.  I hear a lot "natural consequences don't work, he just dug his heels in and still chose X."  The point of natural consequences isn't to force a particular choice -- it is to teach your kid that choices have consequences, and so you should think about what those consequences are and decide whether they are worth it.  And sometimes they learn that only by making the "wrong" choices.  So you need to establish clear boundaries and rules, and then give the kids as much freedom as possible to operate within those boundaries, without ever yourself being invested in the outcome.

E.g., one of my kids flat-out refused to wear a winter coat (he had a sweatshirt he adored).  Zero physical risk (kid is driven to/from daycare/school), but daycare and school won't allow the kids to play outside if they don't think kids are appropriately dressed for the weather.*  So I did the typical mom nag, all to no avail, and finally realized: this is not my problem.  Kid can decide whether insisting on the sweatshirt is worth sitting inside while his friends play.  So I changed my approach to asking what coat he wanted, and then when I thought there was going to be a problem, saying, "Sure.  Just so you know, it's going to be cold today, so your teacher might not let you go outside."  And if he still wanted it, well, here's your sweatshirt, love you, have a nice day.  End result was fewer squabbles getting out the door -- AND the kid learned that sometimes it made sense to wear the heavier coat. 

Point is that the actual result itself is inconsequential; what matters is that the kid makes the connection between each choice and its consequences and learns to think through the pros/cons himself.  Here, your kid might save it all for Bowser (the parentally-sanctioned result), he might blow it all and be sad he doesn't get Bowser yet, or he might blow it all and decide he doesn't really care about Bowser that much after all when it's his money he has to spend.  But any of those results is a win, because he's learning to connect each action with its consequences.

*Personally, I would have preferred them to send him outside and let him learn by being cold, but I don't make those rules, so whatever.

CNM

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2017, 11:58:45 AM »
I am impressed with these stories.  I have a 4 1/2 year old and my experience in getting him interested in saving has not been successful. 

I think it's because if he really wants something, he will want it intensely for, like 2 days.  Then he moves on or at least stops mentioning it. 

Even with his allowance- he used to get $1 a week to do some things around the house.  He was really into it for, oh, a month.  He has now moved on and has all but forgotten about his chore chart and $1.

Tiger Stache

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2017, 12:08:17 PM »
My 4 year old wants a Bowser toy (bad guy from Mario Brothers) which costs about 20 dollars. I feel I should somehow be able to teach him delayed gratification and this could be a good lesson. I'm thinking about making a "Bowser jar" which will not take a long time to fill with coins he will be told he needs to buy Bowser. So there will not be chores to do for money, he just has to wait and be patient. My only headache is what should slow the saving process. For example if he does X, the money will not grow.

Ideas?

amazing, he can redeem the Bowser for coins. Are they gold perhaps?

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2017, 12:28:30 PM »
CNM, my kid has always been the same :)     Will respond to every new idea, product, incentive...and then not, lol.

marion10

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2017, 12:49:25 PM »
I think most 4 year olds are not going to grasp the concept of money. It's also normal for them to move onto something else for two days or need a lot of prompting for chores. Delayed gratification is separate from money.

NeonPegasus

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2017, 01:29:36 PM »
I am impressed with these stories.  I have a 4 1/2 year old and my experience in getting him interested in saving has not been successful. 

I think it's because if he really wants something, he will want it intensely for, like 2 days.  Then he moves on or at least stops mentioning it. 

Even with his allowance- he used to get $1 a week to do some things around the house.  He was really into it for, oh, a month.  He has now moved on and has all but forgotten about his chore chart and $1.

This is why we divorce chores from allowance. They are required to do chores because they're part of the family and we all must contribute. They don't get to decide not to do chores just because they don't need the money.

This is also why I mandate saving. It's a "fake it until you make it" situation. They won't do it of their own volition for various developmental reasons. I have until they're 18 to make it feel normal for them to save half of what they get and for them to see the effects of compounding returns.


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CNM

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2017, 11:48:41 AM »
@ VBACmama

He still does his chores (feed dog, do laundry, clean up dishes, pick up his room) but he doesn't care about his allowance anymore.

NeonPegasus

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Re: Teaching 4 year old delayed gratification
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2017, 03:59:44 PM »
@ VBACmama

He still does his chores (feed dog, do laundry, clean up dishes, pick up his room) but he doesn't care about his allowance anymore.

Awesome! Then save it all for him and periodically show him how his money is growing. :)

After Betterment's fee increase, I moved my large IRAs to Vanguard but left my taxable accounts with Betterment. I love being able to have "goals"/different pots of money for different goals and all my girls have their own pot so they can see their money growing.